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Baldy seems to think it was TERRIBLE execution at the LB level that caused most of the problems.
https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...l-keith-butler
Looks more and more like the Jags gameplan was to target and victimize the middle of the Steelers defense.
Simple. Every single thing will get called on the Jags (who will also probably wind up well north of 100 penalty yards) while the Pats wind up with their usual 2 penalties for 5 yards. You know, because they're so well-coached and disciplined... :coffee:
Ouch. This link would be on Butler's pink slip today.
But that's the thing - should it? What we, as fans, can't know right now is why the linebacker play was so bad. Which of the following was it:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra Tank
A. Poor game plan by Butler. In other words he put his guys in a position to fail.
B. Overcompensation by Spence and Williams et al to stopping the run and as a result screwing other things up. In other words piss poor execution of the plan.
C. Simply a lack of talent in the middle of the defense to cope with the stress the Jags offense placed on the ILBs. Combination of players and lack of creative solutions from the coaching staff. Additional blame to be laid at the front office's feet for not doing more to shore up the thinnest position on the roster.
D. Some toxic combination of A-C that kinda sorta couldn't be helped.
Each of those options has a different "blame" outcome. Each of those options drives a different off-season priority.
Buffalo held them to 10. Yes the players stunk but giving up 45 with two weeks to plan ... that's on the coach.
A definitive conclusion based on...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra Tank
Do you really think it's the players and not Butler?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
The fact that the plan didnt change after half puts it on the coaches (which is a theme with this team, they are terrible at half time adjustments, fortunately they have the talent to overcome that most of the time.) If the ILB's were overcompensating, they are doing it because they are trying to stop the bleeding and it is on the coaches to change things up to they don't do that anymore. There was a drop off in talent in the middle obviously, however it wasnt that much. The blame on this is on the coaches IMO.
That's the point. I have no idea and I lack the required data to make that decision. Here is all we "know":Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra Tank
1. The Steelers defense collapsed on Sunday.
2. The LBs and DL had no positive impact on the game.
3. In the second half the run defense tightened because Haden, Mitchell, AND Davis dropped down into the box.
4. Deeper looks at the game are starting to indicate there was a mix of man and zone coverages with LBs missing their assignments in BOTH.
The list of things I don't know related to assigning blame for this game or any other is super long and until it gets whittled down a bit I'm not ready to start calling for heads on sticks. I mean maybe this is on Porter, Olsavsky, Mitchell, and Lake?
And that drop in talent in the middle that "wasn't much" was from a DPOY candidate to a guy who couldn't make the Colts or Titans 53 man roster or PS. That's not a drop, that is a plummet.
At the start of the season the consensus was the Steelers were dangerously thin at ILB after Timmons walked and Ryan Shazier was the player the defense could least afford to lose. As I recall Mojouw has posted elsewhere the defensive schemes hinged on Shazier's talents - when he was injured they had no one to step up and had to sign Spence as Shazier Lite to assume his role - no surprise someone who was not even playing in December fell short.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Steelers could gamble and hope to draft a Shazier clone but it would be a lot to expect any rookie to simply step up next season. Ben allegedly is considering restructuring to add a year to his current contract, which along with releasing Mitchell could free up some money to try for a free agent signing at either ILB or safety.
Job One is deciding if Butler stays then deciding what to do with regard to scheme and players
It's all of that. The D strategy from the beginning was to sell out to stop the run. Everyone said it... make Bortles beat you with his arm. Well, that's what he did and we still didn't stop the run either... Fournette 109 rushing yards and 3 TD's. They had a great plan to counter with plays out of the backfield, but our guys were still out of position overcompensating to stack the LOS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
The fact we weren't getting the holding calls didn't help our cause, and we obviously needed all the help we could get. Baldy shows the line play holding, but there were Cb's clinching/holding all day. Brown had that one TD where he was grabbed by his collar all the way down the field... no flag, and they're still crying to get an offensive call. :doh:
I would take a FA ILB instead of a FA Safety, one or the other will work for me, then draft the other in the first and OLB in the second to replace Dupree by the end of next season. I just think FA safeties are more plentiful this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaDan
Why is it shocking that a team would target Spence. He got cut by the Titans cut by the colts . Who would think he would play any better here. Just because he would be familiar with some calls. A lousy plan for a thin LBers group.
On a side note we rarely seem to attack a weakness of another team
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I thought the defense played much better against the run in the second half. I believe I read the avg was 2.65yds per carry in the second half.
The Jags were able to always keep the Steelers guessing. Bortles had a much better game than he did against the Bills. Overall, it looks like the LBers just did not make any splash plays and were always just that much away from making better plays. Is that on coaches? Is that on players trying to overcompensate?
Looking at the season, the recurring themes were miscommunication and poor tackling. That is on players and the coaches. I would like to see Butler gone. I would like to see Mitchell gone. I would hope Spence is only a back up or gone. Where was Moats? Dupree? 1 more season to make a final decision, but if he doesn't pick it up, he should be relegated to the bench after 4-8 games.
I would like to know about the relationships with Porter, Lake and Butler. It does not seem like the LBers nor the secondary are well coached either. So Porter and Lake need to pass some scrutiny.
That's been going on since 2015 (Butler's first season). The communication issues have been a constant. I remember that Cheats** game when the secondary was out of position many times before the snap. Still happens alot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Steeler
Exactly. Why they thought their best option to start at ILB was a guy that was out of football leads us to understand why the ILB play was not varsity. But, you still cannot explain to me why Tuitt, Heyward, Alualu, Hargrave were such non factors in the football game. IMO, you cant put that on the coach. When you lose the battle of the LOS, you often lose the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCSteeler
Based on what we DO know, our LB corp is subpar. Our safety play is inconsistent at best. The strength of this defense this season has been the line, and they got manhandled from the first snap. The Jags offense beat our Dline and the rest was easy. Our offense did pretty much the same to their defense as well though. Just some really suspect play calls at key moments in this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Yep. It absolutely should.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojouw
Playing a soft cover three and letting the receiver sit down in the middle of the field with 10 to fifteen yards of green space is unacceptable. Releasing the TE to go for the QB is unacceptable. Now, on that play, you might argue Spence is to blame and it is the talent issue. I'll even concede it to a point. However, the name of the game in Pittsburgh has been SACK THE QB! That emphasis came back to bite them here. And, that's why I come back to scheme. It's not difficult to shift emphasis. "If the TE is blocking you and you don't get to the QB in the first 3 seconds, stay with the TE. Don't let him become the pressure relief valve." But instead, it's all hands on deck to sack the QB. It's another leftover from the Fire-Blitz days and why I want to see the entire coaching tree wiped out from this team.
I don’t know. I disagree with much of that but it doesn’t mean you are wrong! There is more than one way to skin a cat in terms of NFL defensive philosophy. I’m almost always going to side with the view point of the first two steps are to put the QB on his butt. However, I do agree that being stupid about doing it isn’t a great idea either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craic
Not to start a long tangent - but the NFL is a game of move and counter move. Recently the emphasis has shifted away from edge rushers to MLBs and safeties to combat the horizontal elements in many offenses. The Steelers are below the line there and need to be better.
Three steps in I'm sure someone else was assigned to drop to the TE. Talent practice planning. Spence is a total waste of space and as much as people were clamoring Vince as almost as good as Timmins , he's just not. We really lost two all pro ILB this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craic
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That may be... or, no one was assigned to him, which again designates the problem with the scheme. I absolutely agree with you when it comes to Timmons. Everyone was on him the last couple of years saying he wasn't worth the money. I have no idea why. There's posts from me somewhere in the site saying we were going to get ran all over this year because Timmons picks up the middle.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCSteeler
Our problem was that our ILB depth was basically all backups for Williams and none for Shazier.
One guy like Williams on the field is fine, even desirable. Their strengths complement each other's, and even out their collective weaknesses.
Two guys like Williams on the field is not fine. Their weaknesses are magnified, basically we don't have enough speed to cover underneath or chase backs to the outside, and any team who can exploit that can then use it to create a ton of other problems for us, forcing us to take bad risks and lesser-of-two-evils choices all game. That is absolutely the #1 issue we need to address now that we know Ben's coming back for more than just a year. Would be best if we had one guy and a backup with the traits we lost from Shazier. Bringing back Timmons could help tremendously in the short term.
Does Timmons still have the speed to play the mack LB position though?
I think it's time for fresh young legs. Retreads are not going to help this team going forward.
The draft and maybe a key free agent signing seem like the better way to go. If Timmons wanted to come back and play for a low salary and get a good rotation into play, that's great too on a short-term basis, but I'm not sure they have the room for something like that.
Jacksonville’s first drive. Fourth-&-goal. Spence diagnoses the play correctly. He is in the correct hole. He even makes contact with Fournette.
But... Spence simply isn’t very good.
If Shazier is in there, he stops Fournette. Instead, it’s a TD.
SOLUTION:
A talent upgrade is needed at ILB (plus some depth).
Roquan Smith will NOT be there at 28. Tremaine Edmunds is likely gone by 28. Malik Jefferson has unGodly skills, but he will need a year of coaching. Leighton Vander Esch might be a reach at 28 (but, he’ll be gone by the time that we pick in R2).
Maybe, maybe not. Ideally he'd be the backup. But either way I think it'd be an improvement over what we have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Goodell
How much input does Tomlin have in this defense? We'll never know but he supposedly has more input since LeBeau left. Perhaps he needs to let Butler have full reign? :noidea:
You are right on Roquan. Top 10 talent. See a bunch of mock going to Oakland. New ESPN mock has us going Rashaan Evans. :noidea:Quote:
Originally Posted by teegre