Steelers LB coach Porter says Harrison's time will come

The newest game of hide-and-seek on the Steelers doesn't involve JuJu Smith-Schuster, Le'Veon Bell or a touchdown celebration.

This time, the player in hiding is veteran James Harrison, who did not get on the field again Sunday night when the Steelers beat the Detroit Lions, 20-15, at Ford Field.

It was the second time this season Harrison dressed for a game but did not play. The 39-year-old outside linebacker also was inactive for two other games, meaning he has taken snaps in only half of the Steelers' eight games this season.

His position coach, however, promises Harrison will be sought out when the Steelers return from their bye week.

“James is never out of the picture,” Joey Porter said Tuesday. “We'll use James when we feel it's time to use James.”

Porter created a stir in training camp when he said Harrison, the franchise's all-time sacks leader, would be used as the football equivalent of a relief pitcher this season. But Porter and coach Mike Tomlin have held true to their word. Harrison has taken just 29 snaps, with only Arthur Moats getting less playing time among outside linebackers.

Harrison's biggest contribution came three weeks ago in Kansas City when he took 15 snaps lining up against Chiefs left tackle Eric Fisher. His sack of Alex Smith helped the Steelers seal the 19-13 victory over the NFL's last unbeaten team.


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http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...ey-porter-says

They could have used Harrison against the Lions' ailing o-line.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

They could have used Harrison against the Lions' ailing o-line.

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They were dropping the OLB's in coverage against the Lions.

Is bringing him when the game is close really too much to ask?

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Originally Posted by BlackAndGold

They were dropping the OLB's in coverage against the Lions.

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And they were also rushing them. Were they in coverage 100% of the plays? To sit Harrison, the best pass rushing OLB on them team, on the bench for the entire game is pure lunacy. At least get him in there on some plays. Watt and Dupree couldn't do anything against back tackles. They put Moats in and had him rush the QB.

I'm going to trust the coaches on his pitch count. We're 6-2 going into the bye week. Not really much to complain about, unless you just like to complain. Also, maybe James has lost a step and the coaches don't want to expose him too much. It's not like the coaches are purposefully keeping him out of the game because he's better, that kind of thinking is lunacy.

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Originally Posted by 43Hitman

I'm going to trust the coaches on his pitch count. We're 6-2 going into the bye week. Not really much to complain about, unless you just like to complain. Also, maybe James has lost a step and the coaches don't want to expose him too much. It's not like the coaches are purposefully keeping him out of the game because he's better, that kind of thinking is lunacy.

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I learned not to always trust coaches after the Kordell experiment and the many losses to the Patriots, using the same weak defensive game plan.

I doubt the coaches can see if he lost a step when he doesn't play or practice much.

Who would you rather rush the QB against Mahilik; Watt, Harrison, Dupree, Moats or Chickillo? Note: Each OLB on that list, except Harrison, was given a chance to rush the QB in the Lions' game.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

I learned not to always trust coaches after the Kordell experiment and the many losses to the Patriots, using the same weak defensive game plan.

I doubt the coaches can see if he lost a step when he doesn't play or practice much.

Who would you rather rush the QB against Mahilik; Watt, Harrison, Dupree, Moats or Chickillo? Note: Each OLB on that list, except Harrison, was given a chance to rush the QB in the Lions' game.

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If Cowher and Tomlin are so bad, why did they win both over 60% of their games in their careers?

I know they are not perfect, but they have more quality than defaults.

If you'd be our HC, Harrison would already be burned right now.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

And they were also rushing them. Were they in coverage 100% of the plays? To sit Harrison, the best pass rushing OLB on them team, on the bench for the entire game is pure lunacy. At least get him in there on some plays. Watt and Dupree couldn't do anything against back tackles. They put Moats in and had him rush the QB.

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Harrison should be playing over Moats, that is something I 100% agree with.

I gotta see the numbers of how many times the OLB's dropped in coverage against Detroit. "Seemed" like it was over 50% for sure. Watt dropped backed a ton.

Stafford was getting the ball out in 2-3 seconds on most snaps. The pass rush was trying to get there by getting someone unblocked. Steelers brought multiple extra rushers (5 or more) many times. In order to do that, Butler needs as much pre-snap confusion and uncertainty as possible. Who is rushing? Who is dropping? Who is on a stunt? Etc. Harrison provides none of that. If he is on the field, he is coming hell for leather around the edge after the QB. No disguise, no zone drop. Plus, dropping him into coverage against Theo Riddick or Ebron or whoever came out the slot for the Lions would be an unmitigated disaster at this point.

Maybe the strategy was bad, but it is not confusing why Harrison didn't play and others did. He is a 39 year old human muscle that no one wants to see chasing players 10-15 years younger than him around in the flat or between the hash marks.

TJ Watt spent most of the second half as some sort of odd inside LB in the nickel alignment. Harrison can't do that.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

TJ Watt spent most of the second half as some sort of odd inside LB in the nickel alignment. Harrison can't do that.

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Watt to ILB???

I said it on draft day... and I'm still convinced that it's a possibility.

Actually, I'd play him in the Hawk position that Derrick Thomas played (OLB, ILB, DE).

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Originally Posted by teegre

Watt to ILB???

I said it on draft day... and I'm still convinced that it's a possibility.

Actually, I'd play him in the Hawk position that Derrick Thomas played (OLB, ILB, DE).

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I can see either one. I also think I see Butler really getting into the idea of moving Watt and Hilton around to create overloads and/or cause confusion in blocking schemes.

I think that nickel package can get really really lethal.

DBs: Mitchell/Davis/Burns/Haden/Hilton -- all are excellent blitzers (well except Burns!)
LBs: Watt/Shazier -- both can cover and rush. Eventually I task Watt with having a role similar to what GB does with Matthews now -- roving creator of havoc
DL: Heyward/Hargrave/Tuitt -- best 3 man unit in the league. I keep them ALL on the field in this version of my nickel package

But MojoUW -- you're missing a guy! Yup. Let me introduce you to Bud Dupree -- roving Pete Carroll inspired "Leo" rusher.

In the Dime, do the same thing but take one of the DL off the field and bring in Willie Gay (hopefully by the end of the season this is Cam Sutton!)

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I can see either one. I also think I see Butler really getting into the idea of moving Watt and Hilton around to create overloads and/or cause confusion in blocking schemes.

I think that nickel package can get really really lethal.

DBs: Mitchell/Davis/Burns/Haden/Hilton -- all are excellent blitzers (well except Burns!)
LBs: Watt/Shazier -- both can cover and rush. Eventually I task Watt with having a role similar to what GB does with Matthews now -- roving creator of havoc
DL: Heyward/Hargrave/Tuitt -- best 3 man unit in the league. I keep them ALL on the field in this version of my nickel package

But MojoUW -- you're missing a guy! Yup. Let me introduce you to Bud Dupree -- roving Pete Carroll inspired "Leo" rusher.

In the Dime, do the same thing but take one of the DL off the field and bring in Willie Gay (hopefully by the end of the season this is Cam Sutton!)

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Clay Matthews was my comparison for Watt during the draft, seems like he could fill that role perfectly.

Agree with your whole post. This defense has the talent to get very creative and give opposing QB's ton of different looks. (I know you posted Sutton as the dime backer, but this is a spot I hope Brian Allen can play in the future.)

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

I learned not to always trust coaches after the Kordell experiment and the many losses to the Patriots, using the same weak defensive game plan.

I doubt the coaches can see if he lost a step when he doesn't play or practice much.

Who would you rather rush the QB against Mahilik; Watt, Harrison, Dupree, Moats or Chickillo? Note: Each OLB on that list, except Harrison, was given a chance to rush the QB in the Lions' game.

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A fact that you seem to overlook is that we are still #2 in the league in sacks and on pace for 52.

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Originally Posted by polamalubeast

If Cowher and Tomlin are so bad, why did they win both over 60% of their games in their careers?

I know they are not perfect, but they have more quality than defaults.

If you'd be our HC, Harrison would already be burned right now.

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How do you know he would be burned out? Being 39 doesn't mean he would definitely be burned out. I would ask Harrison how much he can take and then rotate accordingly. I certainly wouldn't bench him the entire game.

If I was the HC Kordell would have been a WR full time or cut from the team.

I didn't say or imply Cowher or Tomlin are so bad. I said I don't always trust the coaches.

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Originally Posted by BlackAndGold

Clay Matthews was my comparison for Watt during the draft, seems like he could fill that role perfectly.

Agree with your whole post. This defense has the talent to get very creative and give opposing QB's ton of different looks. (I know you posted Sutton as the dime backer, but this is a spot I hope Brian Allen can play in the future.)

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Good point. I would like to see Allen grow into that role as well. I just figure that based on how each were projected at the draft, Sutton has a better chance of being ready for a playoff run.

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Originally Posted by DesertSteel

A fact that you seem to overlook is that we are still #2 in the league in sacks and on pace for 52.

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So settle for less rather than potentially more?

Who would you rather rush the QB against Mahilik; Watt, Harrison, Dupree, Moats or Chickillo?

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

Good point. I would like to see Allen grow into that role as well. I just figure that based on how each were projected at the draft, Sutton has a better chance of being ready for a playoff run.

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I agree for this year. (Sutton needs to see the field some way)

But by next year I'd like to see Allen take the role in covering these big TE's that is in the league. Put that 6'3" 4.4 forty talent to good use.

Probably our first game of the year that our pass rush was not very good, but some go crazy because of one game!

For Harrison, I think the Steelers keep him fresh for a big game.

They need to bring in Harrison to take some of the pressure off the other LBers and give them a rest. Don't wait until week 16 to put him in regular rotation.

IMO the greatest play in NFL history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAIcUyg50TU

I'm still disappointed in our coverage scheme. Our 3-4 has always relied on a certain amount of deception from the linebackers when it came to who was rushing or blitzing. Against the QB's that are good at getting rid of the ball quickly (Stafford was on it the other night, Brady ALWAYS does against us), I still can't wrap my head around our corners playing SO far off. Just OCCASIONALLY playing some bump and run coverage would disrupt the timing, give our rushers a split second longer to reach the QB and give the opposing team one more thing to think about. We don't have to try press coverage the whole game, but playing man coverage was the entire conversation this off season. I think Haden and Burns are more than capable of getting in a receivers face and staying with them. I'd like to see SOME evidence that we are ready to go down that route before the next meeting with Brady and company.

Harrison should absolutely not being playing over Watt. (Watt almost had 3 INTs.)

Harrison not playing over Dupree or Chickillo... I kind of get it.

Harrison not playing over Moats... :huh:

I’m good with keeping his legs fresh until December...

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Originally Posted by pepsyman1

I'm still disappointed in our coverage scheme. Our 3-4 has always relied on a certain amount of deception from the linebackers when it came to who was rushing or blitzing. Against the QB's that are good at getting rid of the ball quickly (Stafford was on it the other night, Brady ALWAYS does against us), I still can't wrap my head around our corners playing SO far off. Just OCCASIONALLY playing some bump and run coverage would disrupt the timing, give our rushers a split second longer to reach the QB and give the opposing team one more thing to think about. We don't have to try press coverage the whole game, but playing man coverage was the entire conversation this off season. I think Haden and Burns are more than capable of getting in a receivers face and staying with them. I'd like to see SOME evidence that we are ready to go down that route before the next meeting with Brady and company.

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The CBs are not playing "off". There has been a major shift in how the Steelers approach their zone coverages last season and this season. You do not see as much of the DBs just retreating 10 yards down field. The outside CBs (Haden and Burns) are not playing on the LOS, but they are playing close to the WR and are often in trail technique with them attempting to "front" the WR. At a certain point, the receiver gets passed off to the deep DB, usually a safety hanging back in a classic Cover 2 position. That is where the gap opens up. But it isn't because folks are "sagging" off in their coverages. Same with crossers on the shorter parts of the field - the gap opens when offensive players transition from one zone to the next, not because cushions are being unreasonably given.

The zone defense this year has some issues, but that are not the same issues that it has had before. Hell, some routes Artie Burns doesn't even backpedal.

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Originally Posted by teegre

Harrison should absolutely not being playing over Watt. (Watt almost had 3 INTs.)

Harrison not playing over Dupree or Chickillo... I kind of get it.

Harrison not playing over Moats... :huh:

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I am convinced after watching some games and reading Porter's comments, that the Steelers see Harrison as a "one trick pony" at OLB at this point in his career. Others are playing over him because no matter how good Harrison's "one trick" is, it does not fit into the overall defensive scheme that is being run. He can't shift into coverage, he isn't really disguising anything when he is out there, etc.

The question really isn't "Why is Harrison not playing?" - that is pretty darn clear at this point. The question, at least for me, is "Does this flavor of the 3-4 front offer anything better over previous versions the Steelers have tried and does the role flexibility of the other LBs on the roster outweigh the potential that Harrison represents off the edge?

For me, I will almost always choose the tactical flexibility over the the just one thing set-up. However, the question is how good is that one thing? Now prime James Harrison? I'll take that over the flexibility that Watt and Dupree give you in obvious passing situations. But that isn't where we are at in 2017. The assumption seems to be that "insert James Harrison create sacks". But is that really true? So far he has had 2-4 good snaps against a tackle that he owns.

Interesting debate regardless.

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

I am convinced after watching some games and reading Porter's comments, that the Steelers see Harrison as a "one trick pony" at OLB at this point in his career. Others are playing over him because no matter how good Harrison's "one trick" is, it does not fit into the overall defensive scheme that is being run. He can't shift into coverage, he isn't really disguising anything when he is out there, etc.

The question really isn't "Why is Harrison not playing?" - that is pretty darn clear at this point. The question, at least for me, is "Does this flavor of the 3-4 front offer anything better over previous versions the Steelers have tried and does the role flexibility of the other LBs on the roster outweigh the potential that Harrison represents off the edge?

For me, I will almost always choose the tactical flexibility over the the just one thing set-up. However, the question is how good is that one thing? Now prime James Harrison? I'll take that over the flexibility that Watt and Dupree give you in obvious passing situations. But that isn't where we are at in 2017. The assumption seems to be that "insert James Harrison create sacks". But is that really true? So far he has had 2-4 good snaps against a tackle that he owns.

Interesting debate regardless.

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One could equate James Harrison with James Conner. When Conner enters the game, we all know that it is going to be a run (because, his pass blocking isn't up to par). Likewise, Harrison is the best pass-rusher on the team, but when he is in, everyone knows that he is absolutely going to rush the passer (and not drop into coverage).

Then again, his one trick is pretty darn good. I'd have loved to see him come in and blow Mihalik backwards (after Mahalik had spent three quarters trying to out-maneuver Watt). [Do not get me wrong: I would not replace Watt with Harrison; I'd move Watt to ILB.]

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Originally Posted by BlackAndGold

They were dropping the OLB's in coverage against the Lions.

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I really hope we dont try that against Brady come December

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I would of liked to see him near the 4th quarter.

Almost like a closer in baseball.

If were in the 4th quarter with a 2 score lead under 4 minutes, I feel we should unleash deebo on them. We could create a specialist , or a new trend!

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Originally Posted by Mojouw

The CBs are not playing "off". There has been a major shift in how the Steelers approach their zone coverages last season and this season. You do not see as much of the DBs just retreating 10 yards down field. The outside CBs (Haden and Burns) are not playing on the LOS, but they are playing close to the WR and are often in trail technique with them attempting to "front" the WR. At a certain point, the receiver gets passed off to the deep DB, usually a safety hanging back in a classic Cover 2 position. That is where the gap opens up. But it isn't because folks are "sagging" off in their coverages. Same with crossers on the shorter parts of the field - the gap opens when offensive players transition from one zone to the next, not because cushions are being unreasonably given.

The zone defense this year has some issues, but that are not the same issues that it has had before. Hell, some routes Artie Burns doesn't even backpedal.

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I still see Burns and Haden playing a lot of zone coverage that has them lined up 10 yards off the LOS. As you mention, Burns often doesn't even backpedal, as he is standing flat footed 12 yards off and looking to jump any short routes. At times he knows he has deep help, so doesn't worry about the 20 yard distance as that is where he passes off to the safety help. One completion that Stafford had, he gave a shoulder fake to move Burns on the out and then completed the pass in the gap behind Burns and in front of Mitchell, which is a heck of a throw.

Playing 10 yards off the ball when you know you wont get beat on a pump fake to the flat is not a problem, but for years fans see Steeler CB's not playing at the LOS and think its an issue. I don't have a problem with the alignment, but personally I think I would like to see Burns get in some kind of backpedal like Haden does, just to be playing on his toes and not flat footed.

I wouldn't change anything about the scheme at this point. You nailed it on the head by saying Harrison in the game doesn't disguise anything. If 92 happens to drop into coverage he is easily exposed. That's where Watt is an extremely dynamic player. Watching him drop into coverage is a thing of beauty. I can't recall an OLB we've ever had do it as well as him. With teams that are pass heavy, (majority of the NFL) you can't afford to take Watt out of the game. If a team plays smashmouth, then I see no reason why Harrison doesn't get some snaps. He still sets the edge better than any LBer we have.

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Originally Posted by RunNGun

I wouldn't change anything about the scheme at this point. You nailed it on the head by saying Harrison in the game doesn't disguise anything. If 92 happens to drop into coverage he is easily exposed. That's where Watt is an extremely dynamic player. Watching him drop into coverage is a thing of beauty. I can't recall an OLB we've ever had do it as well as him. With teams that are pass heavy, (majority of the NFL) you can't afford to take Watt out of the game. If a team plays smashmouth, then I see no reason why Harrison doesn't get some snaps. He still sets the edge better than any LBer we have.

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And, that is where Moats gets played over Harrison, because Moats can still be put in zone coverage. Running Moats out there is not a big sign to the offense on what we're going to do.