Gay and Worilds to start, Jones and Allen demoted

According to Steelers.com depth chart, Cortez Allen and Jarvis Jones won't be starting. Worilds and Gay listed as starters for the Pats* on Sunday.

gay has been starting. and both of these demotions are disconcerting. just like this whole season

This has to be a cultural problem at this point. The talent is there.


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There's no conductor to lead the symphony

You're right. I've been a Tomlin fan since day one, but he's making it hard to be in his corner. And Hailey? Forget about it....


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This is why I felt Jones should not have been handed the starting job so soon. Worilds is simply more accomplished, despite Jones' superior talent. Now you've taken a promising player and benched him because you started him too soon in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Seven

This is why I felt Jones should not have been handed the starting job so soon. Worilds is simply more accomplished, despite Jones' superior talent. Now you've taken a promising player and benched him because you started him too soon in the first place.

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And that is EXACTLY the type of thing I was arguing earlier this year. Jones should have ridden the pine and come in at various times to help out until he was ready to play every down our scheme afforded him.

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Originally Posted by Seven

This is why I felt Jones should not have been handed the starting job so soon. Worilds is simply more accomplished, despite Jones' superior talent. Now you've taken a promising player and benched him because you started him too soon in the first place.

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And hurt a reliable vet in the process too.

My friends, we've become the Browns ;)

jones and worilds sharing playing time could prove helpful in the offseason. isnt worilds going to be an UFA? quieter production could result in making him easier to resign. id rather have him as top backup than any of the other crap we've had the past couple of years

I don't see what goes on in the locker room or on the training field, but I believe that Tomlin is a poor leader/motivator. I compare it to my own situation (pilot for a low cost carrier), where in recent times one mistake at work will have you sacked - the current manager is a very poor man-manager, he has no people skills and no character. I never feel that he is behind us and an atmosphere of fear has infiltrated the base. We just hear MBA management speak (read "Tomlinisms") the whole time, and nothing seems to come from the heart. Just my take.

IMO, the Woodley contract is what caused this mess(as I predicted). They should have let Woodley walk. Keep Harrison and start Worilds in Woodley's spot. Then groom Jones as a replacement. They should be benching Woodley, but I don't think Tomlin has the guts to do that. At least take him out more often.

The Steelers have done a poor job evaluating talent.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

IMO, the Woodley contract is what caused this mess(as I predicted). They should have let Woodley walk. Keep Harrison and start Worilds in Woodley's spot. Then groom Jones as a replacement. They should be benching Woodley, but I don't think Tomlin has the guts to do that. At least take him out more often.

The Steelers have done a poor job evaluating talent.

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That has no basis in reality. If you were watching the game you would have seen that the Raiders made it a point of emphasis to attack Jones every play he was in there. It was only after he was pulled and Worldidis was put in that the Steelers defense stabilized.

For example in the first 30 minutes of the game Woodley was killing the Raiders right tackle and causing all kind of problems for them. So what the Raiders did was start sliding Pryor a couple steps to his left as soon as he took the snap. Because they saw that there was no edge rush coming from that side and there's was no consistent middle rush by the Steelers. Later in the game Keisel's sack came about as a result of both Woodley and Jason W getting good pressure on both edges which made Pyror step up into Keisel. That sack doesn't happen if Jones was still in there. Because he was being blocked every single time.

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Originally Posted by zulater

That has no basis in reality. If you were watching the game you would have seen that the Raiders made it a point of emphasis to attack Jones every play he was in there. It was only after he was pulled and Worldidis was put in that the Steelers defense stabilized.

For example in the first 30 minutes of the game Woodley was killing the Raiders right tackle and causing all kind of problems for them. So what the Raiders did was start sliding Pryor a couple steps to his left as soon as he took the snap. Because they saw that there was no edge rush coming from that side and there's was no consistent middle rush by the Steelers. Later in the game Keisel's sack came about as a result of both Woodley and Jason W getting good pressure on both edges which made Pyror step up into Keisel. That sack doesn't happen if Jones was still in there. Because he was being blocked every single time.

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Sorry Zulater, but Woodley's absurd contract is killing the Steelers cap. He did basically nothing the entire game. What? A couple of pressures? Where was he on Pryor's run? $61,000,000 for a blank stat sheet. Yes, stats aren't everything, but come on.

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causing all kind of problems for them

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Really? I didn't see that. I saw a couple of pressures, but not much else.

IMO, a Harrison/Worilds combo would be better and cheaper.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

IMO, the Woodley contract is what caused this mess(as I predicted). They should have let Woodley walk. Keep Harrison and start Worilds in Woodley's spot. Then groom Jones as a replacement. They should be benching Woodley, but I don't think Tomlin has the guts to do that. At least take him out more often.

The Steelers have done a poor job evaluating talent.

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Agree. And it's been proven that Worilds is better on Woodley's "side" than Harrison's side. Harrison's talent has declined, but his leadership would've helped this D...

If you can't contain the edge run and get flattened at the LOS play after play you won't be starting for LeBeau. I had high hopes we'd be getting a pass rusher off the edge but that's not happening. This defense doesn't scare anyone but Steelers fans.

Just for clarification I never said Woodley was cost effective. That contract is for too much. But I also don't think his play is ( to borrow a term from Tomlin) below the line this season. If someone can come up with a plan to lessen his cap hit if he's cut or traded then by all means get rid of him. But I don't really think that's much of a possibility, so I accept things for what they are. Woodley is playing pretty good football this year. Not great. Good.

So woodleys contract is bad but what about timmons

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Originally Posted by jb500ex

So woodleys contract is bad but what about timmons

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I believe Timmons is playing at a higher level than Woodley. I think he's earning his contract such as it is. It's your right to disagree.

The D right now lacks an identity. Harrison wasn't a motor-mouth, but he was a presence that, despite his declining production, is missed. Joey Porter was a motor-mouth but backed the intensity up. I don't see any meanness, nastiness on this team - not that I want penalty flags flying left and right - but there's nothing to fear other than Troy's berserker play. Whether it's the personalities or defensive schemes, or both, I'm not sure, but there was a time when the personnel on the field seemed to match the blitz mentality and unpredictability the schemes brought. Now it's all very vanilla.

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Originally Posted by The Bark

The D right now lacks an identity. Harrison wasn't a motor-mouth, but he was a presence that, despite his declining production, is missed. Joey Porter was a motor-mouth but backed the intensity up. I don't see any meanness, nastiness on this team - not that I want penalty flags flying left and right - but there's nothing to fear other than Troy's berserker play. Whether it's the personalities or defensive schemes, or both, I'm not sure, but there was a time when the personnel on the field seemed to match the blitz mentality and unpredictability the schemes brought. Now it's all very vanilla.

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I agree. There is no dominating personality on defense. Troy ike timmons and kiesel are all quiet guys. Clark talks but is really auditioning for bspn. There are no leaders on this team

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Originally Posted by tube517

I agree. There is no dominating personality on defense. Troy ike timmons and kiesel are all quiet guys. Clark talks but is really auditioning for bspn. There are no leaders on this team

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You are correct......and I'll add the head coach isn't one either.

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Originally Posted by zulater

Just for clarification I never said Woodley was cost effective. That contract is for too much. But I also don't think his play is ( to borrow a term from Tomlin) below the line this season. If someone can come up with a plan to lessen his cap hit if he's cut or traded then by all means get rid of him. But I don't really think that's much of a possibility, so I accept things for what they are. Woodley is playing pretty good football this year. Not great. Good.

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you do know woodley and his contract are the exact same thing as what wallace would have been had we resigned him?

Translation: Overrated players that arent worth their paycheck, but cant be cut because of the insurmountable amount of dead money. were just kind of stuck with him.

Btw, does anyone know how trading a player in the middle of a contract works? How much of does each party still have to pay for the player? Im all for trading woodley if this is the best he can do AND if we can make some breathing room (money wise) for the next couple of years

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Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86

you do know woodley and his contract are the exact same thing as what wallace would have been had we resigned him?

Translation: Overrated players that arent worth their paycheck, but cant be cut because of the insurmountable amount of dead money. were just kind of stuck with him.

Btw, does anyone know how trading a player in the middle of a contract works? How much of does each party still have to pay for the player? Im all for trading woodley if this is the best he can do AND if we can make some breathing room (money wise) for the next couple of years

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The cap implications stay with us. If before June 1, all implications get hit in the current season. If after June 1, this year stays unchanged and all other implications get hit in the next season.

Checked a couple of sites and this is the case for trades, retirements and waivers.

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Originally Posted by Count Steeler

The cap implications stay with us. If before June 1, all implications get hit in the current season. If after June 1, this year stays unchanged and all other implications get hit in the next season.

Checked a couple of sites and this is the case for trades, retirements and waivers.

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but dont the cap implications only stay for 1 season?

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Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86

but dont the cap implications only stay for 1 season?

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Yes, pre June 1, this season. After June 1, next season.

So if Woodley has a 10M salary this year and 15M in dead money that is being prorated over 2 or 3 seasons the following would happen.

Trade, release, retire pre June 1: 25M cap hit this season.

Trade, release, retire post June 1: 10m this season, 15m next season.

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Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86

you do know woodley and his contract are the exact same thing as what wallace would have been had we resigned him?

Translation: Overrated players that arent worth their paycheck, but cant be cut because of the insurmountable amount of dead money. were just kind of stuck with him.

Btw, does anyone know how trading a player in the middle of a contract works? How much of does each party still have to pay for the player? Im all for trading woodley if this is the best he can do AND if we can make some breathing room (money wise) for the next couple of years

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So how exactly are we disagreeing? I said I wasn't in favor of his contract. But we're stuck with it nevertheless, or as far as I can tell.

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Originally Posted by zulater

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So how exactly are we disagreeing? I said I wasn't in favor of his contract. But we're stuck with it nevertheless, or as far as I can tell.

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you were defending woodley's play. as if he were earning it at all. i respectfully disagree

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Originally Posted by zulater

I believe Timmons is playing at a higher level than Woodley. I think he's earning his contract such as it is. It's your right to disagree.

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I couldn't disagree more. He's getting paid as a top ilb when in reality he's a 15-20 ilb. He is as weak as they come for a ilb, out of position constantly and circles plays to get his tackles. You add a weak jones to the lb core and its no wonder we have one of the worst group of linebackers in the league Woodley has by far been the best linebacker this year he gets pressure every game which is his job. Timmons has had one good game and several bad games most over rated player by steeler fans. Watch other games you will see how bad he really is

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Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86

you were defending woodley's play. as if he were earning it at all. i respectfully disagree

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I was trying to say he isn't playing as poorly as his detractors claim he is. Actually he's playing pretty good football for the most part. But he'd need to play great almost every game to justify his salary.

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Originally Posted by jb500ex

I couldn't disagree more. He's getting paid as a top ilb when in reality he's a 15-20 ilb. He is as weak as they come for a ilb, out of position constantly and circles plays to get his tackles. You add a weak jones to the lb core and its no wonder we have one of the worst group of linebackers in the league Woodley has by far been the best linebacker this year he gets pressure every game which is his job. Timmons has had one good game and several bad games most over rated player by steeler fans. Watch other games you will see how bad he really is

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I've seen you reference Tunch and Wolf, and coach Bradley a few times on this board. Tell you what, call in to their show and run that opinion of Timmons by them and see what they have to say.


Timmons could be more consistent.But overall he's a damn good player. We could use a few more like him.

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Originally Posted by zulater

I was trying to say he isn't playing as poorly as his detractors claim he is. Actually he's playing pretty good football for the most part. But he'd need to play great almost every game to justify his salary.

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I've seen you reference Tunch and Wolf, and coach Bradley a few times on this board. Tell you what, call in to their show and run that opinion of Timmons by them and see what they have to say.


Timmons could be more consistent.But overall he's a damn good player. We could use a few more like him.

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We have too many like him that's the problem over paid not very good. Timmons choked on the biggest play in that game. It was him who totally blew his assignment yet everyone rags on woodley. Woodley did exactly what he was suppose to do while Timmons was tripping over the other team completely blowing his responsibility. I don't care what steeler media says I starting listening to all the shows on the net recently and have never heard more puff media ever.