Tomlin doesn’t ‘run away’ from Keisel’s criticism of Steelers

The Steelers weren‘t in a state of readiness before playing the oft-beaten San Diego Chargers, and defensive end Brett Keisel sensed it.

Keisel even warned his teammates beforehand of underestimating a struggling opponent but one with talent. Final score: Chargers 34, Steelers 24.

Mike Tomlin not only didn‘t object to Keisel‘s candidness, he agrees with him.

Tomlin made a surprising admission Tuesday by saying Keisel‘s analysis was correct..............


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...#ixzz2EtSzKOtF

Poor coaching? I am thinking yes.

IMO, Tomlin is riding the BR train. I know, I know, Tomlin is the greatest HC....

I will never understand how, in the Age of Parity, that one NFL team overlooks another.

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Originally Posted by Crow-Magnon

I will never understand how, in the Age of Parity, that one NFL team overlooks another.

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It's human nature. It's also no excuse.

It is what it is. The standard is the standard.

The chargers just punched ya in the junk, kind of hard to hide from it.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Poor coaching? I am thinking yes.

IMO, Tomlin is riding the BR train. I know, I know, Tomlin is the greatest HC....

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What's the "BR train"?

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Originally Posted by GoSlash27

What's the "BR train"?

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Ben Rothelisberger

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Originally Posted by 43Hitman

Ben Rothelisberger

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Okay... I still don't see what that would have to do with this, but thanks for clearing that up.

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Originally Posted by GoSlash27

Okay... I still don't see what that would have to do with this, but thanks for clearing that up.

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yeah me either, I think he is trying to imply that Tomlin is a below average coach without Ben.

At the moment i dont know what t think about coach T he has some great "tomlinism", but either everyone tunes it out or we are what our record reflects. Im starting to believe it is the latter

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Originally Posted by 43Hitman

yeah me either, I think he is trying to imply that Tomlin is a below average coach without Ben.

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which is stupid because no team with a shitty qb this season is playoff caliber. Not one.

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Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86

which is stupid because no team with a shitty qb this season is playoff caliber. Not one.

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I get your point , but everyone's definition of " shitty" may not be the same ....

I consider Mark Sanchez shitty , with a couple Steeler and Bengal losses and a couple Jets wins ..... he will be in the playoffs .....

but most times it is the case the stink stays outside the second season .....

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Originally Posted by 43Hitman

yeah me either, I think he is trying to imply that Tomlin is a below average coach without Ben.

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Could be. I guess we'll have to get that from Steeldude.
But if that is the case... I don't think this performance reflects on Tomlin one way or the other. It's not like the players didn't know how to play or what they were supposed to be doing. They just played flat, like they lacked the proper motivation. I think most here would agree with that.
And if that's the case, even Chuck Noll always said that motivating players wasn't his job. The way he figured it, if a player wasn't motivated he'd rather fire him than motivate him.
I'm not attacking Tomlin or defending him here. I just don't think he has anything to do with this poor performance. If anything, I'd look to da Beard for answers. He recognized that his people weren't in the right frame of mind. It was up to him to fix that. It's the old-heads' job to motivate their teammates.

Just my opinion...

going from the line of thinking I am seeing in this and many threads ( maybe this should be a thread of its own I dunno )

but an interesting question comes to mind here and depending on whom you talk to as to what answer you may get on the same basic question ......

so here goes ....

is A) or B) what you believe, and make your argument for your case if you believe A) at what point should a change be made with the players and or the Coach , if B) is true in your mind at what point is it the coaches Job to make a change ... because with either answer something has to change and it is Tomlins job to make that change as the Head Coach


A )Is Mike Tomlin Responsible for his players lack of effort , lack of concentration , and poor performance on the field .....

OR

B ) Are the players paid professionals that being so should provide enough incentive for them to self motivate in order to keep their jobs as starters and all responsibility for lack of effort , concentration and poor performance lays directly at their feet ......


and please explain .....

I think B is closer to the truth, but my answer is C) it is and has always been the job of the senior players to provide leadership and motivation for the team. They are supposed to give the rah-rah speeches, mentor their juniors, and take charge when they see lapses of effort and concentration. Not all players necessarily look to their coaches for guidance and approval, but *all* of them look up to the greybeards in the locker room.
Kinda like a military organization. The coaching staff fulfills the duties of officers, but it's the senior NCOs who actually make things happen.

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Originally Posted by GoSlash27

Could be. I guess we'll have to get that from Steeldude.
But if that is the case... I don't think this performance reflects on Tomlin one way or the other. It's not like the players didn't know how to play or what they were supposed to be doing. They just played flat, like they lacked the proper motivation. I think most here would agree with that.
And if that's the case, even Chuck Noll always said that motivating players wasn't his job. The way he figured it, if a player wasn't motivated he'd rather fire him than motivate him.
I'm not attacking Tomlin or defending him here. I just don't think he has anything to do with this poor performance. If anything, I'd look to da Beard for answers. He recognized that his people weren't in the right frame of mind. It was up to him to fix that. It's the old-heads' job to motivate their teammates.

Just my opinion...

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Thats kind of what i was thinking , The players know how to play the game. For some unknown reason the players do not get up for teams that are below their own level of ability. Then they get their butts handed to them. I am not going to blame Tomlin for that. Maybe he should start firing people. Players , coaches ,anyone who does not conform to his standards. Start his own team so to speak. I am at the point i don't know what to think anymore. I damn well know this team is better than their record indicates. Maybe the SanDiego loss might wake each and every one of them up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy1OlhiBcXw

The Steelers have a lot of holes on this team and that also includes coaching.

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Originally Posted by GoSlash27

I think B is closer to the truth, but my answer is C) it is and has always been the job of the senior players to provide leadership and motivation for the team. They are supposed to give the rah-rah speeches, mentor their juniors, and take charge when they see lapses of effort and concentration. Not all players necessarily look to their coaches for guidance and approval, but *all* of them look up to the greybeards in the locker room.
Kinda like a military organization. The coaching staff fulfills the duties of officers, but it's the senior NCOs who actually make things happen.

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This is where I fall in line as well. Certainly the coaching staff has some culpability, but its up to the vets to keep everyone on the same page and motivated.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Poor coaching? I am thinking yes.

IMO, Tomlin is riding the BR train. I know, I know, Tomlin is the greatest HC....

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Well, in light of the fact that:

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Wallace has the same problems this year as he has had every year. He can't catch. He can't run routes. He has...

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

IMO, [Woodley] doesn't contain well or cover that well. He disappears for stretches too.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

foote is absolutely horrible in pass coverage and a bowling pin against the run.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

[Plaxico Burress] is out-positioned by small DBs. I do remember Burress using his chest to catch the ball rather than extending his arms to catch it at its highest point.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Rashard Mendenhall - Not a position of need. Overrated RB coming out of the spread. Afraid of contact [and] I always had a feeling he was a baby. A wasted draft pick. The Steelers should have never went for a RB in the first round.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Wow, Curtis Brown is awful. I was watching him last week too. He is rather slow to react and his overall speed is sub-standard, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

They haven't had a leader on defense since Lloyd left. There no leaders on this team that I can see.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Hampton is a shell of his former self [and] . . . players get old and need to be cut or sat on the bench. One of those players is Hampton

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

[Batch] still needs to be let go next season. Same goes for Leftwich.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Should have let Beachum go to the practice squad

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

The D-line is subpar

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The Steelers' O-line sucks.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

The Steelers defense showed huge holes in the secondary.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Colon hasn't been overly impressive so far [and] That's the best they could come up with to drum up a compliment for Colon? Kemo was just as violent, if not more.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Until Adams can show he can be by himself he is still a huge liability

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Gilbert seems like a puss to me.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Lebeau isn't aggressive. He sits backs an hopes for a mistake. How has that been working out?

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I'd say coaching a team that is this horrible according to you, to a current sixth seed in the playoffs isn't exactly "riding the BR train." I mean, since basically, there's only four or five good players on this team according to you, and everyone else is average or poor, I'd say that he's doing a bang up job.

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Originally Posted by Preacher

Well, in light of the fact that:
(multiple quotes)
I'd say coaching a team that is this horrible according to you, to a current sixth seed in the playoffs isn't exactly "riding the BR train." I mean, since basically, there's only four or five good players on this team according to you, and everyone else is average or poor, I'd say that he's doing a bang up job.

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Well, you know how it is. Some people see the glass as half-full and others see the glass as ZOMG THE SKY IS FALLING EVERYBODY PANIC!! :wink02:

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Originally Posted by 43Hitman

yeah me either, I think he is trying to imply that Tomlin is a below average coach without Ben.

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Bingo

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Originally Posted by Preacher

Well, in light of the fact that:

I'd say coaching a team that is this horrible according to you, to a current sixth seed in the playoffs isn't exactly "riding the BR train." I mean, since basically, there's only four or five good players on this team according to you, and everyone else is average or poor, I'd say that he's doing a bang up job.

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Gotta love it when someone needs to take posts out of context in attempt to make some sort of point...lol

When did I say or imply the team is horrible? I will be awaiting your answer.

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I'd say that he's doing a bang up job

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And that would be your opinion.

Don't worry about the Steelers and the playoffs. Tomlin has saved up his two-point conversion plays to seal the deal : )

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Bingo

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Fair 'nuff. Thanks for clarifying.

Interesting...
http://www.steelers.com/video-and-au...7-1493e7d10faa
http://www.steelers.com/video-and-au...4-b3a49b352d1e

Both coordinators were stressing "veteran players communicating" in today's interviews. That tells me that they're seeing the same problem we are and working to get a handle on it. Here's to hoping it works! :drink:

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Originally Posted by GoSlash27

Interesting...
http://www.steelers.com/video-and-au...7-1493e7d10faa
http://www.steelers.com/video-and-au...4-b3a49b352d1e

Both coordinators were stressing "veteran players communicating" in today's interviews. That tells me that they're seeing the same problem we are and working to get a handle on it. Here's to hoping it works! :drink:

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Amen brother!

Yes, I believe the veteran players have a huge role in mentoring and motivating the younger players, but I also believe that after the exits if Farrior, Hokey, Hines, Aaron Smith and Flozell, just to name a few off the top of my head, we have fewer self motivated players. You didn't have to tell any of them to get ready for a game.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Gotta love it when someone needs to take posts out of context in attempt to make some sort of point...lol

When did I say or imply the team is horrible? I will be awaiting your answer.



And that would be your opinion.

Don't worry about the Steelers and the playoffs. Tomlin has saved up his two-point conversion plays to seal the deal : )

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Actually, no, those aren't out of context. None of those said "in this game" only for me to cut it out. For it to be "out of context" I would have had to cut, say, Colon's quote where you qualify it with "so far." I left it in there for that reason. Maybe you're a little surprised that you really are that negative towards this team. I don't know. I do admit a couple of them were from earlier in the season. My point however, is that if you think such a number of players on this team, and the number of units on this team are bad, then exactly how do you think a coach that is getting enough wins from an average to sub-average team is a below average coach.

Either the players are below average, or the coach is. But both can't be below average and still have the team in the sixth seed at this point in the season. And no, I personally don't think he's doing a "bang up job" that was sarcasm.

So, I guess my question is, which is it? Do we have a team where a quarter of our starters this year (Hampton, Mendenhall, Woodley, Foote, Wallace, and Beachum) shouldn't be on the team because they're not good enough, and we only have a few players that are worth praising (I think I found you praising Ben, Heath, Timmons-in a backhanded way, Brown, and I'd imagine I could put Ryan Clark in here for you as well), thus we have a coach that's able to get more out of the whole than its individual parts? Or do we have a team that should be able to make the playoffs, but we struggle making it because of the coach?

Logically, it's one or the other since we are in the sixth spot right now, and a team that is average in the league will miss the playoffs. (16 teams per conference, six spots for playoffs, 10 teams don't go. Therefore average teams don't make it).

That was the entire point of my post, which you seemed to completely sidestep. I'll admit, the sarcasm could have been lost in the transfer of electrons, so now that I've asked the question directly, I'm looking forward to the answer.

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Bingo

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who are the great coaches around the league with shitty qb's?

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Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86

who are the great coaches around the league with shitty qb's?

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Rex Ryan. :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by Steeldude

Bingo

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Yeah, because there are so many great coaches out there with horrible QBs. :rolleyes:

Answer me this. How much of a genius would Bill Belichick be if he didn't have Tom Brady? Now keep in mind, he had a horrible record as a HC before Fairy Boy came around. How about Mike McCarthy? We all saw what happened to the Colts last year without Peyton Manning, and then this year with Andy Luck. Think Tom Coughlin isn't thankful he has Eli Manning on his team? He wouldn't have 2 rings without him, that's for sure. Bill Cowher had a lot of success with average to poor QBs...thanks in large part to a dominant defense and running game. But even he had plenty of shitty seasons with those same average to poor QBs, including 3 consecutive .500 and below seasons from 1998-2000 and didn't win the big one until when? That's right, when Ben came around, the very guy that he had to be forced into drafting by Dan Rooney.

Bottom line is, EVERY successful team has a top-shelf QB leading their team. It does NOT make the head coaches of those teams horrible or "below average" as you claim Tomlin is. I think the true shitty coaches are the ones who have good QBs and still can't win (Norv Turner, Jim Schwartz, Jason Garrett).

But nevermind. You go on being the ultimate "glass-half-empty" guy. I get that you simply want to see better play and better players, but damn man...would it kill you to give out a compliment or 2 more than once in a blue moon?