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Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
Simple question. Has the talent fallen off that much?
Or is the scheme worn and used to the point of ineptness unless you have DPOY type talent such as Polamalu and or Harrison playing at unearthly levels?
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
I have a feeling its more of the execution from the players. However, its well known the scheme is changed when Troy is out. To add to that, Mundy is a back up safety at the most. It will be nice when James and Troy are back, that is for sure.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
Troy better be back next week, because it wouldn't be surprising if Mundy is suspended for a game or two after what happened to Heyward Bay.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
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Originally Posted by
zulater
Troy better be back next week, because it wouldn't be surprising if Mundy is suspended for a game or two after what happened to Heyward Bay.
I don't think he'll be suspended, but I bet he gets a twenty thousand dollar plus fine come this week.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zulater
Simple question. Has the talent fallen off that much?
Or is the scheme worn and used to the point of ineptness unless you have DPOY type talent such as Polamalu and or Harrison playing at unearthly levels?
B. Time for a change. Said it at the end of 2010. Time to pass the torch on to Butler.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
Injuries are a huge factor. You simply can't replace Polamalu and Harrison.
Plus with the backups becoming starters and the third stringers becoming backups, you don't have fresh legs by the end of the game. That doesn't help either.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
Both. As I said in another thread, the scheme depends on dominating the line of scrimmage, and we can't anymore. When it was Keisel, Smith, Harrison, Woodley, Hoke, and 2000-08 Casey Hampton, we were constantly getting guys into the backfield and messing up plays. Hood, Heyward, Worilds, McLendon, and 2012 Casey Hampton don't do that. In particular, I think the D-Line doesn't get much push or disruption anymore, and that makes things worse on the LBs too, and pretty soon the whole thing stops working.
Either some of those guys need to start winning the battle for us up front, or we need to re-evaluate what we're doing.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
in my opinion, it's the talent. the steelers really haven't had many good corners since rod woodson (best one would be ike), so i'm not going to blame the CB's #1. when we lose it's because qbs aren't getting sacked or pressured. we need better pass rushers. woodley is good but he is overrated as hell in my opinion. i don't ever expect harrison to be the monster he was a couple of years ago. we need to find a couple of good strong fast linebackers. chris carter and worilds don't cut it.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
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Originally Posted by
Count Steeler
B. Time for a change. Said it at the end of 2010. Time to pass the torch on to Butler.
You know, I've been wondering the same thing. I love LeBeau and he is the greatest defensive coordinator to have ever coached, but I just wonder if he doesn't have the ability to prepare the defense anymore, read offenses, etc.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
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Originally Posted by
Godfather
Injuries are a huge factor. You simply can't replace Polamalu and Harrison.
Plus with the backups becoming starters and the third stringers becoming backups, you don't have fresh legs by the end of the game. That doesn't help either.
Anything you get from 92 or 43 you got to view as a bonus. If you're waiting on them producing at elite or near elite level to put this defense over the top, chances are you'll have a long wait.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
A Little of Both. Mostly Scheme.
Lebeau once again set back in a passive zone and let Palmer pick them apart. Not once did Palmer have to think or hesitate in the 2nd Half. Every completion I saw barely had defenders within three yards of the reciever. The shit didn't work in Denver, it didn't work against Sanchez, and it certainly didn't work here, so why the fuck did we keep doing it? Haley made adjustments mid-game and the Offense was nigh-unstoppable. Lebeau clearly saw what didn't work, but went ahead with it anyway.
The Zone D is obsolete without players like Troy, and Ryan Mundy is no Troy. Many Teams have adjusted to it now going back to last year. When this Defense played Man, no one could move the ball on them, when we sat in a zone, it was picked apart.
We Shut Down Tom Brady with that scheme last year. Brady made a living and notoriously ate Lebeau's Zone alive. Aaron Rodgers became an MVP against the Zone Defense. The League simply put has caught up to Lebeau's Zone Defense. It's not working anymore. It's not fooling anybody.
When it comes to talent. Our players just aren't suited for the scheme. The days of Deshea Townsend and Bryant McFadden are long gone. Keenan Lewis and Cortez Butler are horses of a different breed. We can't run the Zone effectively anymore.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
i think its a little of both, the scheme is no longer fooling qbs and o lines like it used to, but i think it has been masked because of the playmakers we had on D. Now that the talent out there is a significant drop off you are really seeing it.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
Its going to make for an interesting offseason, that is for sure.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
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Originally Posted by
Edman
Mostly Scheme.
Lebeau once again set back in a passive zone and let Palmer pick them apart. Not once did Palmer have to think or hesitate in the 2nd Half. Every completion I saw barely had defenders within three yards of the reciever. The shit didn't work in Denver, it didn't work against Sanchez, and it certainly didn't work here, so why the fuck did we keep doing it? Haley made adjustments mid-game and the Offense was nigh-unstoppable. Lebeau clearly saw what didn't work, but went ahead with it anyway.
The Zone D is obsolete without players like Troy, and Ryan Mundy is no Troy. Many Teams have adjusted to it now going back to last year. When this Defense played Man, no one could move the ball on them, when we sat in a zone, it was picked apart.
We Shut Down Tom Brady with that scheme last year. Brady made a living and notoriously ate the Zone alive.
Yeah, I hate when he does that. This is probably my biggest complaint against LeBeau.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
Both imo ....Heyward and Hood are not worthy of 1st round picks.....and I agree with Count on Butler.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
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Originally Posted by
Shoes
Both imo ....Heyward and Hood are not worthy of 1st round picks.....and I agree with Count on Butler.
The thing about Heyward is that he doesn't start and barely plays. Hood does seem to be pretty quiet though.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
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Originally Posted by
Shoes
Both imo ....Heyward and Hood are not worthy of 1st round picks.....and I agree with Count on Butler.
sure seems like it. i feel like if we had aaron smith in his prime being doubled teamed i wouldn't be complaining about these linebackers getting barely any pressure on qbs. right now i think i put the blame 50/50 between the linebackers and DL though but the truth might be that the defensive line is most to blame.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
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Originally Posted by
JayC
sure seems like it. i feel like if we had aaron smith in his prime being doubled teamed i wouldn't be complaining about these linebackers getting barely any pressure on qbs. right now i think i put the blame 50/50 between the linebackers and DL though but the truth might be that the defensive line is most to blame.
Yeah, they do seem pretty weak. There hasn't been much if any noise out of them so far this season.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
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Originally Posted by
steelerdude15
The thing about Heyward is that he doesn't start and barely plays.
Most 1st rounders do tho.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
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Originally Posted by
Shoes
Most 1st rounders do tho.
Maybe they don't feel he's ready or maybe they feel Ziggy and Brett are better fit to start. :noidea:
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
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Originally Posted by
Shoes
Both imo ....Heyward and Hood are not worthy of 1st round picks.....and I agree with Count on Butler.
Some people would crucify you for that - "OMG YOU'RE ALREADY CALLING THEM A BUST, LET'S CUT DECASTRO AND ADAMS AND RAINEY AND TROY WHILE WE'RE AT IT, REMEMBER PEOPLE THOUGHT TROY WAS A BUST"
But I definitely agree, as it stands, they're not doing what's required of them. Yeah they had big shoes to fill, and maybe they'll still get better in time, but nothing less than outstanding D-Line play makes our defense work, and we're not getting it right now.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
If our defensive scheme is so hard to play in and the players take a long time to get used to it, why is it other QBs figure it out in 1 quarter?
Time for a change.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Count Steeler
If our defensive scheme is so hard to play in and the players take a long time to get used to it, why is it other QBs figure it out in 1 quarter?
Time for a change.
It also doesn't help that adjustments aren't made when they need to be made.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Count Steeler
If our defensive scheme is so hard to play in and the players take a long time to get used to it, why is it other QBs figure it out in 1 quarter?
Time for a change.
Because the league has caught up to the Zone Defense. Troy masked the deficiencies in a big way. When he's not out there, well the defense just may as well be just 11 stiffs standing around, because that's how Denver, Sanchez (1st two drives), and Palmer made the Zone Defense look like today.
Three games in a row the Zone Defense has failed. Time for a change. The Zone D has seen it's last days.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
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Originally Posted by
steelerdude15
It also doesn't help that adjustments aren't made when they need to be made.
We adjusted fine after Sanchez carved them up, and for some reason, we didn't bother changing things up in this game.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
>snip<
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Originally Posted by
Edman
Troy masked the deficiencies in a big way. When he's not out there, well the defense just may as well just 11 stiffs standing around,
:chuckle:
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
We gotta get over the James and Troy days. They are still better than average but for goodness sakes we need better backups.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
In my opinion, it's more scheme. I think it might be time for a change.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Edman
We adjusted fine after Sanchez carved them up, and for some reason, we didn't bother changing things up in this game.
I've noticed that the defensive scheme is usually left intact and is rarely altered. I guess last week may have been one of the those rare times.
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Re: Defensive ineptness. Talent or scheme, where does the blame lie?
A combination of both for me. Our senile defensive coordinator keeps the running the same old scheme that never works and looks like an idiot every time he runs it. The absence of Harrison and Polamalu have also hurt. The pass rush has been non-existent with Harrison gone, with no one else getting the job done, and with Polamalu injured, we are stuck with inept backup Ryan Mundy, Ike Taylor who has taken a few steps backwards, and no. 2 corners who have not proven they belong on an NFL field. I thought I would never say this but the loss of William Gay hurt and has left a void. Is there any other explanation how the Cardinals are 3-0 with Gay after containing Tom Brady's high-octane offense and shutting down Mike Vick's offense, and these sorry ass wastes of space can't even stop Crappy Carson Palmer and his cerebrum of crappy WRs?
