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stillers4me
09-12-2011, 11:51 AM
The Pittsburgh Steelers not only lost badly to the Baltimore Ravens on Sunday, they might have lost one of their most important players for a significant period of time in the process.

Starting ORT Willie Colon, according to two sources, suffered an arm injury, which is believed to be in the triceps area.

If the injury is significant, and the early indication is that it is, the Steelers could re-sign veteran OT Flozell Adams, who started 16 games last season for team last season when replacing Colon, who missed all of 2010 with an Achilles tendon injury..........


read more @ http://thesidelineview.com/columns/caplans-nfl-corner/sources-steelers-colon-suffers-arm-injury

BigNastyDefense
09-12-2011, 11:56 AM
Actually, this would be a good development.

Colon is coming off of an Achilles injury and he played horrible. Hell, the man is a walking false start.

Flozell Adams played decently last year and is a better option than not only Colon, but anyone on the current roster to replace him.

O'Malley
09-12-2011, 12:04 PM
Actually, this would be a good development.

Colon is coming off of an Achilles injury and he played horrible. Hell, the man is a walking false start.

Flozell Adams played decently last year and is a better option than not only Colon, but anyone on the current roster to replace him.

This ^

polamalubeast
09-12-2011, 12:06 PM
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/brownpapernats1.jpg

Chidi29
09-12-2011, 12:08 PM
As if the line wasn' already bad enough.

Let's get Marcus Gilbert some snaps at left tackle. Tired of Jonathan Scott. Even I won't defend him.

shutdown
09-12-2011, 12:09 PM
No one picked up Maxipad, what's the story with him?

He's only 29 isnt he? He don't want to play anymore or what?

BigNastyDefense
09-12-2011, 12:11 PM
As if the line wasn' already bad enough.

Let's get Marcus Gilbert some snaps at left tackle. Tired of Jonathan Scott. Even I won't defend him.

Damn. That bad? I didn't see the game but from what I have heard, a turnstile would have been better protection for Big Ben than J-Scott.

zulater
09-12-2011, 12:15 PM
Colon might have had a bad game yesterday ( besides Ike Taylor who didn't in black and gold?) but you guys are nuts if you think Flozell was better than him. Basically the only reason last year wasn't a total disaster from a pass protection standpoint on the right side of the line is that Heath Miller was kept in to block 3/4th of the time in obvious passing situations. Say goodbye to any thought of Heath Miller catching more than 40 passes this year if Flozell comes back.

XxKnightxX
09-12-2011, 12:18 PM
He probably hurt his arm from that Hold on Terrell Suggs.

86WARD
09-12-2011, 12:25 PM
Fuck...sign Flo and when Colon comes back, put him at RG.

Chidi29
09-12-2011, 12:28 PM
No one picked up Maxipad, what's the story with him?

He's only 29 isnt he? He don't want to play anymore or what?

He's fat.

Very fat.

BigNastyDefense
09-12-2011, 12:30 PM
He's fat.

Very fat.

Also, he's had back/neck problems. One funky block and he's on IR.

Edman
09-12-2011, 12:53 PM
Excellent. Colon isn't very good anymore, and Jonathon Scott isn't good for anything.

Bring back the Hotel.

Well, Flozell was better than Colon. You see, the Steelers could actually run the ball behind his side, and he wasn't a false start machine.

salamander
09-12-2011, 01:00 PM
Bring Back Flo.

SteelerFanInStl
09-12-2011, 01:02 PM
I'd like to see Flo back and I agree about Jonathan Scott. Put Gilbert in there at LT. He couldn't be any worse and he's the future.

steeldevil
09-12-2011, 01:23 PM
Yeah I guess Flo will be back if the injury is serious. And I also think that Gilbert should just be put in at LT. Trial by fire. The OL just has to be addressed in the next draft.... I know that the Steelers use the best player available approach, which they should because it is the best approach, but I think they need to dedicate themselves to getting 2-3 quality OL in the next draft. And if I were Ben, I would be openly speaking my mind about this to management.... It really is pretty pathetic....

The secondary problem is no where near as bad as the OL problem.... It is just more noticeable most of the time. We are extremely lucky Ben can move and can take hits....

salamander
09-12-2011, 02:00 PM
Yeah I guess Flo will be back if the injury is serious. And I also think that Gilbert should just be put in at LT. Trial by fire. The OL just has to be addressed in the next draft.... I know that the Steelers use the best player available approach, which they should because it is the best approach, but I think they need to dedicate themselves to getting 2-3 quality OL in the next draft. And if I were Ben, I would be openly speaking my mind about this to management.... It really is pretty pathetic....

The secondary problem is no where near as bad as the OL problem.... It is just more noticeable most of the time. We are extremely lucky Ben can move and can take hits....

Tom Brady would run home crying to his mommy if he had to play behind our o-line.

GBMelBlount
09-12-2011, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by shutdown
No one picked up Maxipad, what's the story with him?

He's only 29 isnt he? He don't want to play anymore or what?


Chidi

He's fat.

Very fat.



BigNastyDefense

Also, he's had back/neck problems. One funky block and he's on IR.

Sounds like he'll blend right in.

I agree on throwing in Gilbert now.

Tomlin & Pouncey need to have a talk with him and tell him he has to grow up play professional football NOW.

Diamonds are made from pressure.

...oh, and since we are on the topic of colon and diamonds being made from pressure....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O42K4EwVssQ

BlastFurnace
09-12-2011, 03:47 PM
Colon might have had a bad game yesterday ( besides Ike Taylor who didn't in black and gold?) but you guys are nuts if you think Flozell was better than him. Basically the only reason last year wasn't a total disaster from a pass protection standpoint on the right side of the line is that Heath Miller was kept in to block 3/4th of the time in obvious passing situations. Say goodbye to any thought of Heath Miller catching more than 40 passes this year if Flozell comes back.

Where are you reading this about Flozell?

The difference I saw last year was that the running game was better to the right hand side of the line and amount of dumb penalties from the right hand side went down too.

I have never though that Colon was any better than Average...with leaning toward below average. With the way this coaching staff has judged and developed O'lineman, I don't take much credence when they tell anyone that Colon was one of their best lineman. IMO, other than Pouncey, none of them would start for another NFL team.

zulater
09-12-2011, 03:53 PM
Where are you reading this about Flozell?

The difference I saw last year was that the running game was better to the right hand side of the line and amount of dumb penalties from the right hand side went down too.

I have never though that Colon was any better than Average...with leaning toward below average. With the way this coaching staff has judged and developed O'lineman, I don't take much credence when they tell anyone that Colon was one of their best lineman. IMO, other than Pouncey, none of them would start for another NFL team.

So you tell me, why did the Steelers award Colon a nice contract and send Flozell packing?

JayC
09-12-2011, 03:59 PM
J scott is in the category of Gay and Mcfadden for me. how are these players starters in the national football league. they would be bench players at best on almost every team

BlastFurnace
09-12-2011, 04:06 PM
So you tell me, why did the Steelers award Colon a nice contract and send Flozell packing?

I don't know why. I'm not in close contact with the coaching staff, the Rooney's, Colbert, or Omar Khan.

I asked you a question as to where you read that about Heath Miller. Where did you read that analysis?

From what I saw last year, the RT position was better than it has been.

Count Steeler
09-12-2011, 04:15 PM
Tomlin has to make some moves. Colon going down won't mean much, cause none of our guys have shown much on the OLine. Gilbert should play.

BigNastyDefense
09-12-2011, 04:20 PM
So you tell me, why did the Steelers award Colon a nice contract and send Flozell packing?

They were intending Colon to start and Flozell be a backup, so they told Flo to take a pay cut or take a hike....he chose to take a hike.

For some reason this coaching staff loves Willie Colon. Don't get me wrong, I trust our coaches and front office, but they aren't infallible. They make mistakes and fall in love with players who really don't have any business getting the contract they did.

Another example of that is Willie Gay. He's horrible and should have never been resigned, and at the least should have be cut at final cuts.

I don't think any team was seriously looking at Colon and the Steelers overpaid big time to keep a guy no better than average.

Maybe Tomlin just has a spot soft for guys named William.

shutdown
09-12-2011, 04:27 PM
From what I saw last year, the RT position was better than it has been.

Colon had 12 penalties in 2008, 9 in 2009. He allowed only 43 QB disruptions in the span of two years.

Adams had 10 penalties in 2010 and allowed 46 QB disruptions in the span of one year.

:noidea:

Psycho Ward 86
09-12-2011, 04:36 PM
how the heck is Chris Scott ahead of Marcus Gilbert at RT?

zulater
09-12-2011, 04:50 PM
Colon had 12 penalties in 2008, 9 in 2009. He allowed only 43 QB disruptions in the span of two years.

Adams had 10 penalties in 2010 and allowed 46 QB disruptions in the span of one year.

:noidea:

Thank you. Also it would be worth looking up the number of times Heath Miller was targeted in 2009 as opposed to 2010. All I know is from my uneducated eye it certainly appeared as if Heath Miller was being made to stay in and block in obvious passing situations a lot more often last year than any other season that I can remember. Strong side help by the tight end in pass blocking is usually an indicator that you're right tackle is suspect.

zulater
09-12-2011, 04:52 PM
how the heck is Chris Scott ahead of Marcus Gilbert at RT?

Maybe he's not, Gilbert was on the injury list yesterday with concussion symptoms. Hopefully he's recovered and starting against Seattle.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-12-2011, 05:10 PM
This is not great, but it could be a blessing. Many forget that Trai Essex is on the team and can play OT if needed. Also, I think RT would be a good place for young Gilbert to get his feet wet in the NFL.

Jon Scott didnt play as bad as most here are posting. I watched the game over on the PVR and he did a decent job with Kruger and Suggs most of the day. Kemo actually played a lot worse than Scott.

I am pleasantly surprised by Marcus Gilbert's feet to stay with speed rushers, but in the preseason he got bull rushed back frequently. He doesnt anchor well yet, plays a bit high and would be better suited to RT where Ben can see that he is getting pushed back into the pocket. IMO

BlastFurnace
09-12-2011, 05:24 PM
Bouchette just confirmed the injury on Twitter. Surgery on Tuesday.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-12-2011, 05:32 PM
I hope they put Gilbert out there on the right side and keep Essex dressed on gameday to play either OT spot as backup.

Craic
09-12-2011, 05:33 PM
Colon had 12 penalties in 2008, 9 in 2009. He allowed only 43 QB disruptions in the span of two years.

Adams had 10 penalties in 2010 and allowed 46 QB disruptions in the span of one year.

:noidea:

Exactly. The guy comes back from being out a year, his first game at full speed with all the schemes is against one of the top defenses in the NFL, and now we want to put him out on the trash pile?

Legursky shut down The Jets NT, who has contributed more tackles and assists that Casey Hampton for us, and B.J. Raji. But after one game this year he sucks and we should throw him out too?

This is why REACTION is never a good way to run a football team, and why the Rooneys don't react, nor hire coaches that do.

The Duke
09-12-2011, 05:57 PM
Damn this sucks

but I'd gladly take Flozell. Man needs that ring

pepsyman1
09-12-2011, 06:09 PM
Fuck...sign Flo and when Colon comes back, put him at RG.

This^

stillers4me
09-12-2011, 06:16 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1518180300/twit_normal.jpgRealRClark25 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/RealRClark25)ryan clark



keeping my boy @willcolon74 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/willcolon74) in my prayers. Heart & soul of the entire offense! Gives us everything he has. Finished the game yesterday!

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-12-2011, 08:42 PM
Exactly. The guy comes back from being out a year, his first game at full speed with all the schemes is against one of the top defenses in the NFL, and now we want to put him out on the trash pile?

Legursky shut down The Jets NT, who has contributed more tackles and assists that Casey Hampton for us, and B.J. Raji. But after one game this year he sucks and we should throw him out too?

This is why REACTION is never a good way to run a football team, and why the Rooneys don't react, nor hire coaches that do.

Preacher, who is the Jets NT?? Shut Down by Legursky??

Legursky had the first shot at RG last season, but got pushed around and was then replaced by the bigger and more physical Ramon Foster. We still could not find a viable RG in the offseason and Legursky again gets the first shot at RG, but I expect we will see the same thing happen this season again.

Legursky is a solid utility lineman, but not somebody that is going to impose his will or physically dominate opposing linemen. Pretty much Darnell Stapleton 2.1

steelerdude15
09-12-2011, 09:34 PM
As if Willie did anything anyways. I agree with a lot of you, bring back Flozell and give our second round pick a chance.

oneforthetoe
09-13-2011, 12:42 AM
I can't help thinking all of you who are posting about how it is a good thing that Colon got hurt are just a bit. :crazy: We gave the guy a new multi-year contract and there is no player proven better at Rt on the team. But it is good that he got hurt?????? Yes, Gilbert may some day be a good player Who knows? I do know this: if Gilbert does start and gives up a few sacks, or commits a few penalties, and then gets hurt, somebody will post about how it was a good thing because the next flavor of the week must be the answer.

Austin87
09-13-2011, 04:13 AM
Fuck...sign Flo and when Colon comes back, put him at RG.

This.

Also wouldn't mind if they brought back Starks. I don't think J.Scott, Kemo and the Big Legursky should start in the NFL, they would all be solid backups at best.

Edman
09-13-2011, 04:35 AM
So you tell me, why did the Steelers award Colon a nice contract and send Flozell packing?

Just because they were rewarded contracts over other players doesn't make them any good. Willie Gay got a new deal, and he still sucks the big one at nickel corner. We kept Gay and let Butler and Warren (two guys with upside who shone in preseason) off the team, while No-play Willie Gay and his buddy Mcfadden were back to SB form embarrassing themselves in coverage Sunday.

All that needs to be said is the Steelers' critical personnel flaws showing themselves. Too much loyalty to vets (even though they shown time and again they're not very good). How many times are we going to see McFadden hurt all the time and Gay get burnt in coverage before changes are going to be made? Do the guys we have just not any good?

zulater
09-13-2011, 05:36 AM
I can't help thinking all of you who are posting about how it is a good thing that Colon got hurt are just a bit. :crazy: We gave the guy a new multi-year contract and there is no player proven better at Rt on the team. But it is good that he got hurt?????? Yes, Gilbert may some day be a good player Who knows? I do know this: if Gilbert does start and gives up a few sacks, or commits a few penalties, and then gets hurt, somebody will post about how it was a good thing because the next flavor of the week must be the answer.

Good post.

oneforthetoe
09-13-2011, 02:17 PM
Hey if Gilbert does work out this year at RT maybe he solves our RG problem next season. Colon comes back and finally makes the move to guard. Of course, if Gilbert gives up a sack to Suggs the next time we play the Ravens, then then we can always hope he gets injured. The next guy will surely be better.:ranger:

86WARD
09-13-2011, 03:41 PM
That would be nice...

Craic
09-14-2011, 05:45 AM
Preacher, who is the Jets NT?? Shut Down by Legursky??

I wondered that too. So I went and looked up his season last year, then compared his season with all other AFC DT's (top DT from each team based on tackles).

So here is the Jets NT
Pouha (Jets) 16 games, 41 tackles, 18 assists, 3 passes defended, 3 fumbles recovered, 2 sacks.

Here is the rest of the AFC
Kelly Gregg (Balt) 16 games, 19 tackles, 16 assists,
Kyle Cook (Cin) 16 games, 1 tackle.
Big Snack (Pitt) 15 games, 15 tackles, 15 assists, 1 forced fumble, 1 sack.
Ahtyba Rub. (Cle) 16 games 57 tackles, 25 assists, 2 passes defended, 1 int, 2 sacks.

Gerard War. (NE) 16 games 16 tackles, 10 assists, 3.5 sacks.
Paul Soliai (Miami) 16 games, 33 tackles, 6 assists, 2 passes defended, 1 fumble recovered, 2 sacks
Kyle Williams (bills) 16 games, 54 tackles, 23 assists, 2 fumbles recovered, 1 pass defended, 5.5 sacks--pro bowler.


Ron Edwards (KC) 16 games, 15 tackles, 11 assists, 1 pass defended, 1 sack.
Jamal Willia. (den) 16 games 31 tackles, 16 assists, 1 pass defended
Richard Sey. (Oak-LDT in 4-3) 16 games 36 tackles, 12 assists, 2 passes defended, 1 fumble recover 5.5 sacks.
Antonio Gar. (SD) 16 games. 37 tackles, 11 assists, 5.5 sacks.

Jason Jones (Ten-LDT in 4-3) 15 games 33 tackles, 5 assists. 3 passes defended, 3 forced fumbles, 3.5 sacks.
Amobi Okoye (Tex-RDT in 4-3) 16 games 27 tackles, 17 assists, 1 fumble recovery, 3 sacks.
Tyson Alualu (Jax LDT in 4-3) 16 games 29 tackles, 9 assists, 1 pass defended, 3.5 sacks.
Daniel Muir (Indi RDT in 4-3) 14 games (29 tackles, 9 assists,

That is all the AFC NT's or LDT/RDT's that rank first in that position on their team.

Notice, Pouha had 5 complete play disruption (int's PD's, FF's, or Sacks.) The only ones that beat him are

Bills 6.5
Oak 7.5 (Seymour is not a NT however).
SD 5.5
Tennessee 9.5

Cleveland (tied)

That means that Pouha tied for 5th in the AFC for NT's that can completely shut down a play by himself last year (I know, sacks by NT's are usually the help of OLB's pushing them up. But it's still a good measurement all said and done, when put with everything else below).

Tackles? He had 41 tackles. There are only 2 DT's in the AFC that had more.

There are only 2 other players that have more assists than him as well. (DT's).

Heck, there's only 5 DT's that have more sacks than him (a couple others are even).
______________

So, who is the Jet's NT? Pouha, and statistically, he is one of the top NT's in the AFC.

Legursky handled him without problem. B.J. Raji-- the same.


Legursky had the first shot at RG last season, but got pushed around and was then replaced by the bigger and more physical Ramon Foster. We still could not find a viable RG in the offseason and Legursky again gets the first shot at RG, but I expect we will see the same thing happen this season again.
But, bigger is better? He is just a bit above the average weight of a guard, and if he is closer to his playing weight last year than what is listed for this year, he is actually one of the heavier players. No, he's not tall, but he is one of the heaviest and his he is STRONG. I posted on this here (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/9765-Steelers-tackle-Colon-faces-surgery-out-indefinitely?p=203394&viewfull=1#post203394).

Legursky is a solid utility lineman, but not somebody that is going to impose his will or physically dominate opposing linemen. Pretty much Darnell Stapleton 2.1
Really? Seems to me that for four games last year when Leg. was playing, the interior of the line was pretty strong. Why remove him then? Because he was the second center, second guard, and FB in special situations, sitting behind a rookie center who at that point, could have hit a wall at any point in time. Don't you find it interesting that Essex isn't even being discussed right now, even though he has played LT some? Did a decent job against he Ravens a couple years ago when he did too.

I think, there is way too many absolutes being drawn from a single game, and a bit of what-have-you-done-for-me-lately that tends to forget how players performed over a broader period of time. I agree with you that he needs to work on aggressiveness and push. There might be a bit of height issues involved with not getting the leverage, but that can also be coached. What he needs, is time to actually fill the spot and play the game.

BTW, do we forget that we played the number 1 or 2 Defense of the last decade last week? That's like sending a young boxer out to box Mike Tyson in his prime and then figuring he isn't worth anything when he gets knocked out in the second round.

Doesn't make sense to me. After the fourth game, when we can see trends developing instead of a peak or valley, I might agree with you. But anything until then is quite premature, IMO.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-14-2011, 09:55 AM
Preacher, thanks for looking up the Jets NT.....I dont know who Pouha is and most on the board probably dont either. Stats for a NT dont mean much, because they can all play very different styles. I can point to the Steelers defense and say that Hamptons job is to take up 2 blockers so that the LB's can make plays, where I can point to the Jets, Patriots and Cowboys defenses that play more gap cancellation and have their NT going downhill a lot.

I am not going to look at statistics when judging Legursky, I would rather just look at the tape as that is the most telling. He does the best he can with his smaller frame, shorter arms and intelligence. He just doesnt have the bulk and lower body mass to anchor and move defensive linemen, but rather is better with his quickness and angles that he takes. IMO, Legursky is a classic zone block O lineman.

Legursky was replaced last season by the larger Ramon Foster because he was not able to move the larger DT's that the Steelers played. Sure Ngata is a pro bowl player, so we will see what Legursky can do with Alan Branch this week and hopefully establish a run game and keep Branch out of the backfield.

BigNastyDefense
09-14-2011, 11:58 AM
There are lies, damn lies, and stats.

People who rely solely on statistics don't see the entire picture.

I don't know much about the Jets, but from watching the games I have they're scheme seems to be more of a scheme where the DL attacks the backfield. The Steelers DL is supposed to occupy blockers so the LB's can make the plays. It all depends on how the scheme is and what the player's are asked to do.

And Legusrky did well in the AFC Championship Game and the Super Bowl, yeah. But he got pushed around on Sunday. He was replaced by Foster last season for the same reason. Weight and mass don't necessarily give you the ability to play offensive line, otherwise any fatass could be able to succeed. Legursky is the average weight of an NFL guard, but he doesn't seem to have the lower body strength to anchor himself and keep the defensive tackle/defensive end from getting into the backfield.

I don't expect anyone to be able to stop Ngata on every play, but he was thrown around like a rag doll all day and that's just unacceptable.

Craic
09-14-2011, 03:34 PM
Preacher, thanks for looking up the Jets NT.....I dont know who Pouha is and most on the board probably dont either. Stats for a NT dont mean much, because they can all play very different styles. I can point to the Steelers defense and say that Hamptons job is to take up 2 blockers so that the LB's can make plays, where I can point to the Jets, Patriots and Cowboys defenses that play more gap cancellation and have their NT going downhill a lot.

I am not going to look at statistics when judging Legursky, I would rather just look at the tape as that is the most telling. He does the best he can with his smaller frame, shorter arms and intelligence. He just doesnt have the bulk and lower body mass to anchor and move defensive linemen, but rather is better with his quickness and angles that he takes. IMO, Legursky is a classic zone block O lineman.

Legursky was replaced last season by the larger Ramon Foster because he was not able to move the larger DT's that the Steelers played. Sure Ngata is a pro bowl player, so we will see what Legursky can do with Alan Branch this week and hopefully establish a run game and keep Branch out of the backfield.

But that doesn't make sense for 2 reasons.

1. While I agree with your that stats never tell the whole story, these stats DO show that in the Jet's scheme, and in comparison to everyone else in the AFC that may scheme the same way, the NT is a very good player. There is no way around that. Leg. shut him down.

2. His mass is not an issue as he is has greater mass than most offensive guards (He is a few inchers shorter yet heavier). Or are you actually talking about physical size? Either way, lower-body mass/strength simply isn't an issue for him. He broke every weight lifting record at his highschool. He broke the squat-record in college at over 700 pounds, as well as the clean lift record (I think that's what it's called, I linked to it in the previous post). That is the same squatting weight as James Harrison, who has an unbelievable bull-rush, at an inch shorter. Again, I know that techniques are different between the positions, but the weight/strength arguments arguments against Leg. just make no sense. Now, as you say, it may be simple frame and arm length/extension that is causing him problems (because I agree and have noticed that he DOES have problems getting a push off the line) but then I have to wonder why you've been so big in the past on putting Willie Colon at that position when he is only 5 pounds heavier and 2 inches taller?

As far as Foster replacing Legursky, who knows, but it sure says something when both Legursky and Essex have been him out of the position which he started for 10 games last year. He's now second behind Kemo at LG.

Speaking of Willie C. I like him. But I am of the same feeling about him that I was with Willie Parker and also Leftwich. Thanks for being of the team, but the game has caught up with you and your body can't handle it, time to be cut. Of course, I'd it'd be good to let him come back into camp next year and fight for a spot. But treat him like camp fodder and make him prove himself without injury.