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RICKNNC
08-15-2011, 01:13 PM
has anyone heard any news on ike and will we please let gay go!

zulater
08-15-2011, 01:24 PM
has anyone heard any news on ike and will we please let gay go!

The last i heard Ike had his surgery and is expected back for the season opener against Baltimore. But that may be an overly optimistic projection?

As for Gay, even though he's unpopular with the fans, the coaches obviously see him as being good enough to play in the league, or at least being better than any alternative currently on the roster, so I guess we better get used to seeing him here for at least one more season.

Psycho Ward 86
08-15-2011, 01:37 PM
has anyone heard any news on ike and will we please let gay go!


As per NFL.com: Ike out about 3 weeks and expected back for the opener. And who do you suggest we replace Gay with?

O'Malley
08-15-2011, 01:49 PM
As per NFL.com: Ike out about 3 weeks and expected back for the opener. And who do you suggest we replace Gay with?

^this! Catch 22... Brown? Although he is still probably two years out due to the complex system..:noidea:

Chidi29
08-16-2011, 04:22 PM
Ike actually practiced with the first team yesterday.

NJarhead
08-16-2011, 04:23 PM
has anyone heard any news on ike and will we please let gay go!

Watching him against the Redskins was sooooo painful. I don't understand what Lebeau, or whomever thinks he's worth keeping, actually sees in him.

Chidi29
08-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Watching him against the Redskins was sooooo painful. I don't understand what Lebeau, or whomever thinks he's worth keeping, actually sees in him.

What plays were "painful" to watch?

NJarhead
08-16-2011, 04:56 PM
What plays were "painful" to watch?

Going from memory pretty much all of them. What I remember specifically is his inability to jam Santana Moss.
It's always the same: wanna know where the ball is? Look about two steps in front of William Gay.
When not blitzing, he continually looks clueless, especially in man coverage.

Chidi29
08-16-2011, 05:11 PM
Going from memory pretty much all of them. What I remember specifically is his inability to jam Santana Moss.
It's always the same: wanna know where the ball is? Look about two steps in front of William Gay.
When not blitzing, he continually looks clueless, especially in man coverage.

How often did he try to jam Moss?

How do you know the scheme didn't call for him to take away a third of the field and by nature, half to play off?

Didn't you see the same happen to all the other corners?

How often are we in man coverage?

NJarhead
08-16-2011, 05:19 PM
How often did he try to jam Moss?

How do you know the scheme didn't call for him to take away a third of the field and by nature, half to play off?

Didn't you see the same happen to all the other corners?

How often are we in man coverage?

I assumed that since he was lined up in Moss' face and put his hands on him late then immediate followed him across the middle and tackled him when he made the third down conversion, that he was in man coverage. Wouldn't you? He wasn't on the outside and I normally see our corners playing off in other situations. Regardless, the kid looks lost. Please don't start some crap with me. I'm not in the mood for that shit. If you disagree, then say so and make a point. Otherwise, buzz off. I've never had in issue with you before Chidi. On the contrary, I've always liked you and enjoyed your posts. Don't start being a dick please. Thank you.

Chidi29
08-16-2011, 05:51 PM
I assumed that since he was lined up in Moss' face and put his hands on him late then immediate followed him across the middle and tackled him when he made the third down conversion, that he was in man coverage. Wouldn't you? He wasn't on the outside and I normally see our corners playing off in other situations. Regardless, the kid looks lost. Please don't start some crap with me. I'm not in the mood for that shit. If you disagree, then say so and make a point. Otherwise, buzz off. I've never had in issue with you before Chidi. On the contrary, I've always liked you and enjoyed your posts. Don't start being a dick please. Thank you.

It could've just been him rubbing Moss to the inside. If the corner is playing with outside leverage, he's trying to force the recevier inside. And if he is jamming him, you'll typically see a lot of zone. Cover 2's, not that we play it in its true form because we don't, staple is corners jamming. And it's a zone scheme. I know their appeared to be a zone under on the play.

And even if it was a istake, let's not let one play be judgement for everything.

I'm not trying to be mean though I think your assessment as a whole is off. In order for me to make my point, I need to understand exactly where you're coming from. Otherwise, we go around in circles of "Gay sucks" "No he doesn't" for three pages. Boring.

I apologize if I came off as mean..

NJarhead
08-16-2011, 06:02 PM
It could've just been him rubbing Moss to the inside. If the corner is playing with outside leverage, he's trying to force the recevier inside. And if he is jamming him, you'll typically see a lot of zone. Cover 2's, not that we play it in its true form because we don't, staple is corners jamming. And it's a zone scheme. I know their appeared to be a zone under on the play.

And even if it was a istake, let's not let one play be judgement for everything.

I'm not trying to be mean though I think your assessment as a whole is off. In order for me to make my point, I need to understand exactly where you're coming from. Otherwise, we go around in circles of "Gay sucks" "No he doesn't" for three pages. Boring.

I apologize if I came off as mean..

Thank you Chidi. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

Unfortunately I deleted the game, but I'm sure we'll get a good look at him this Thursday night.

I do think I'm right though because if he was passing him off a LB would have picked him up.
Personally, when it comes to playing in coverage, I do think Gay sucks. He can catch, blitz and tackle, but he seems a liability in most cases. The only time I can recall him batting down a pass is when it was an under thrown one. He gets picked on for a reason.

Chidi29
08-16-2011, 06:20 PM
Thank you Chidi. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

Unfortunately I deleted the game, but I'm sure we'll get a good look at him this Thursday night.

I do think I'm right though because if he was passing him off a LB would have picked him up.
Personally, when it comes to playing in coverage, I do think Gay sucks. He can catch, blitz and tackle, but he seems a liability in most cases. The only time I can recall him batting down a pass is when it was an under thrown one. He gets picked on for a reason.

For a zone scheme, it might not always be the case that he immediately gets picked up. Or maybe that LB who was supposed to pick him up didn't.

I'll go back and look at the play. Because I do remember Gay running hard after the jam/rub, but he wasn't exactly right on Moss.

I thought Gay did what Gay does well. Close and tackle. As I've said a lot, that's what you look for in the corners in a Dick LeBeau defense.

steelpride12
08-16-2011, 06:24 PM
The situation with Gay is the coaches know as of right now he is the best guy for the job. Sure not many are huge fans of him, but the Steelers know that he knows the system best while most would take too long to adjust and some may never fit in our system.

The Steelers are hoping that Curtis Brown can turn into a starter at some point for the Steelers.

NJarhead
08-16-2011, 06:30 PM
For a zone scheme, it might not always be the case that he immediately gets picked up. Or maybe that LB who was supposed to pick him up didn't.

I'll go back and look at the play. Because I do remember Gay running hard after the jam/rub, but he wasn't exactly right on Moss.

I thought Gay did what Gay does well. Close and tackle. As I've said a lot, that's what you look for in the corners in a Dick LeBeau defense.

I disagree. Close and tackle if he play is in front of you (and hopefully short of the marker) but Gay seems to be chasing the play from behind an awful lot. He should be able to actually defend the pass as well.

NJarhead
08-16-2011, 06:32 PM
The situation with Gay is the coaches know as of right now he is the best guy for the job. Sure not many are huge fans of him, but the Steelers know that he knows the system best while most would take too long to adjust and some may never fit in our system.

The Steelers are hoping that Curtis Brown can turn into a starter at some point for the Steelers.

I'm hoping Crezdon Butler can contribute more. I thought maybe Keenan Lewis would be able to harness all that fire and aggression and contribute as well, but the coaches don't seem to believe in him...at least not yet.

Chidi29
08-16-2011, 06:34 PM
I disagree. Close and tackle if he play is in front of you (and hopefully short of the marker) but Gay seems to be chasing the play from behind an awful lot. He should be able to actually defend the pass as well.

That's the only play I can remember where Gay was chasing. And if you're jamming and playing close, you're going to be chasing a lot. Because eventually, the recevier will get away from you.

All the other plays from that game, and the majority of his time here, he's in front of the play. Product of a lot of the Cover 3/4 and off coverage we use.

NJarhead
08-16-2011, 06:44 PM
That's the only play I can remember where Gay was chasing. And if you're jamming and playing close, you're going to be chasing a lot. Because eventually, the recevier will get away from you.

I agree, but it's his job to disrupt the timing and buy that extra second for the pass rush to get there.


All the other plays from that game, and the majority of his time here, he's in front of the play. Product of a lot of the Cover 3/4 and off coverage we use.

Chidi again, I disagree. He's been beaten deep more than a few times. Probably more than most when you add up times thrown to/at. It doesn't matter what the coverage is 20-30 yards down field. He should be able to defend the pass, not just tackle after the fact (if we're that lucky).


BTW Chidi, I'm actually genuinely enjoying this debate and I wouldn't be at all upset if you could convince me that Gay was a keeper. haha.

Psycho Ward 86
08-16-2011, 06:45 PM
That's the only play I can remember where Gay was chasing. And if you're jamming and playing close, you're going to be chasing a lot. Because eventually, the recevier will get away from you.

All the other plays from that game, and the majority of his time here, he's in front of the play. Product of a lot of the Cover 3/4 and off coverage we use.

theres a lot more than just that play. Stallworth and Armstrong were kicking his ass

pepsyman1
08-16-2011, 08:14 PM
I find myself agreeing with Warden. I know our corners normally play off but Gay AND McFadden both usually play VERY far off and seem very slow closing on the ball...so much so that the reception is usually a given. Ike on the other hand seems to close on the play much faster so that he occasionally make a play on the ball and if he can't he's making almost immediate contact with the receiver...he rarely seems to be chasing a receiver which as Warden stated Gay frequently seems to do. I just don't understand why Gay and McFadden play SO far off. It's not like they're able to contain the run better by being 11 yards off the line of scrimmage. If I was an opposing QB I would throw 6-7 stop routes in front off Gay or McFadden continually until they started to cover it. (how many times last year did we see McFadden give up 7,8,9 receptions to the WR he was "covering"?)

Chidi29
08-16-2011, 10:44 PM
Again guys, I need some specific examples.

Because what I saw was a secondary basically playing prevent, vanilla defense all game.

Pittsburgh43
08-16-2011, 11:01 PM
[QUOTE=TheWarDen86;192011]Unfortunately I deleted the game, but I'm sure we'll get a good look at him this Thursday night.

QUOTE]

That's for sure, Gay and Keenan Lewis are the starters against Philly.

Chidi29
08-17-2011, 04:03 AM
I don't think Gay was jamming. I think it was a rub to the inside. If he's jamming, he's going to be staring Moss down like a hawk and ready to jam him the second he moves. You're looking for that jolt to disrupt the receiver. The Mel Blount type of CB that can knock your block off. Those are the origins of the Cover 2 in the NFL. First used by Bud Carson in the 70s.

He's looking in the backfield off the snap which is why he appears to be late with the jam.

I think we're definitely looking at zone under. Check out this pic.

http://i52.tinypic.com/rif5he.jpg

The linebackers are looking at the QB. That's a tell that it's zone. At least under. Of course, it can still be man over the top. But it's something to consider.

Gay may run with Moss because he has no other responsibilites. If he's playing under, he'd probably be looking for something in the flats especially on playaction. Often have that high/low read of deep route then underneath. But the TE motioned away from him. And there's no other receiver to his side so he doesn't have to cover anyone else. Maybe he thought Moss was going to run up the seam. If he's playing in a deep shell, he needs to support underneath. Maybe Moss runs a corner. Again, Gay will need to be underneath to take it away completely. Then, he saw Moss cut inside and just followed him because it was the best, and only, choice he had.

Yes, I'm doing a lot of guessing/assuming here. But that's the fun thing about football.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-17-2011, 10:05 AM
I'm hoping Crezdon Butler can contribute more. I thought maybe Keenan Lewis would be able to harness all that fire and aggression and contribute as well, but the coaches don't seem to believe in him...at least not yet.

I thought Lewis played OK, he had some lapses on plays, but overall he looked to be closer in coverage than Gay did. Just by looking at the Redskin preseason game, I think Gay played worse than Lewis.

Actually, I thought Donovan Warren looked pretty good in the time he got.

NJarhead
08-17-2011, 10:40 AM
I thought Lewis played OK, he had some lapses on plays, but overall he looked to be closer in coverage than Gay did. Just by looking at the Redskin preseason game, I think Gay played worse than Lewis.

Actually, I thought Donovan Warren looked pretty good in the time he got.

To me, Keenan Lewis LOOKS like an NFL DB. Just a little too raw. Gay never seems to be comfortable IMO. Unless he's blitzing.

SteelerFanInStl
08-17-2011, 05:42 PM
I thought Lewis played OK, he had some lapses on plays, but overall he looked to be closer in coverage than Gay did. Just by looking at the Redskin preseason game, I think Gay played worse than Lewis.

Actually, I thought Donovan Warren looked pretty good in the time he got.

I thought that Lewis played poorly against Washington. I was specifically watching him and he was just chasing receivers all day. I don't recall him being in position to break up a pass all game.

Watching Grossman complete 73% of his passes was painful even if it was preseason.

Steeltreal
08-18-2011, 09:32 AM
The Steelers hosted free agent CB Roderick Hood for a visit on Wednesday.

just saw this on PFT. A little more insurance?

The Duke
08-18-2011, 11:10 AM
The Steelers hosted free agent CB Roderick Hood for a visit on Wednesday.

just saw this on PFT. A little more insurance?

That visit and the Kevin Dockery signing just worry me. Those two used to be good players, like two years ago, and Dockery mainly as a nickleback

7willBheaven
08-18-2011, 11:52 AM
I havent seen anywhere about Hood coming in (from good/solid sources)...as LaConfora posted that Dockery and Hood visited I think he meant Dockery and Macho Harris and they didnt just visit...they've both been signed already too. Plus I cannot find anywhere that Hood came in too.

Some people are taking some of these the wrong way...with it seems 4 or more of the DBs out the last 2 preseason games they need some more bodies in there to play...and if one of them shows something and such they'll give them a chance to make the team.

suitanim
08-18-2011, 12:01 PM
Honestly, any one of these warm camp bodies will probably give Gay a run for his money. And William Gay is starting tonight. If I was the Eagles OC, I'd have my first 20 plays scripted, and they would all be passes aimed at whichever WR Gay was lined up across from.