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View Full Version : Hines Ward=Hall of Fame?



polamalubeast
06-22-2010, 06:42 AM
In, forum, he thinks not.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=400769

Do you think he would have his place in hall of fame?

HometownGal
06-22-2010, 06:45 AM
Yes. For all he has brought to the game on a consistent basis over the years, I think he'll get there, but maybe not on the first ballot.

Animal Mother
06-22-2010, 07:19 AM
I would be surprised if he didn't make it on the first ballot. My argument is that the HOF is a popularity contest anyway (look at # of QBs and RBs compared to any other player) and he is a very popular player both for the Steelers and being known throughout the NFL. The HOF voters also know he is considered to be the best blocking WR in the game and amassed his stats for a team that was previously known to primarily run the ball. Couple that with his character off the field, his 12 seasons (and counting) with the same team, 2 super bowls and 1 super bowl MVP, it would almost be a crime if he didn't make it on the first shot.

SteelerSal
06-22-2010, 07:23 AM
Oh...Hell Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!

solardave
06-22-2010, 07:29 AM
Oh...Hell Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!! DITTO!!!!

SteelMember
06-22-2010, 07:38 AM
The "stats" may hold him back because of the emergence of the "passing league" numbers, but as a football fan, I hope he gets in for not only being the face of this franchise with his consistent play, but for being a well rounded "football player" that loves and respects the game.

If a guy like Michael Irvin can get in, and a guy like Andre Reed isn't in yet... There's some issues with the voters, because "the numbers" don't explain this one either.

Vincent
06-22-2010, 07:55 AM
Oh...Hell Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!

What he said.

Indo
06-22-2010, 08:00 AM
The "stats" may hold him back because of the emergence of the "passing league" numbers, but as a football fan, I hope he gets in for not only being the face of this franchise with his consistent play, but for being a well rounded "football player" that loves and respects the game.

If a guy like Michael Irvin can get in, and a guy like Andre Reed isn't in yet... There's some issues with the voters, because "the numbers" don't explain this one either.

Of course we are all Steelers Homers and think EVERYBODY (almost) who has worn the B&G should get in.
Hines is DEFINITELY,IMO, one of them

But I can't figure out how those morons vote
Dirt Dawson should be in
LC Greenwood
Donnie Shell

I could go on and on
I even tthink Cris Carter should be in

so who knows?

Yes, I say. But I don't get a vote...

wootawnee
06-22-2010, 08:53 AM
He'll get in.........Look at it this way.....If you take Hines out of the body that God made for him, and you put him into a body like Jerry Rice or T.O. or Randy Moss, what do you think he would have done.......Hines is going in the Hall.........That is the kind of warrior that the elders in the hall appreciate......

Best team player in football........Teams win championships.........

Hope he has an epic season.........go 8 - 6 ...........

solardave
06-22-2010, 09:04 AM
In, forum, he thinks not.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=400769

Do you think he would have his place in hall of fame?

i think it's interesting that a lot of people on that forum were from texassses where Irvin is in. By today's rules his catches would be few because of the Ointerference rule. The guy pushed off almost as much as he did Coke!!!! what a waste of a HOF spot.

steelpride12
06-22-2010, 09:20 AM
Interesting thought. I think IMO Ward is worthy of the HOF. Many others who were less deserving made it and Ward has been a consistent great season after season. Maybe Im just being a Homer, but he deserves to be there and I think he has proved that breaking many Steelers records which doesn't happen very often.

Psycho Ward 86
06-22-2010, 10:36 AM
My homerism says yes, but my rationality says no. So i'm going to say no for now, not because i dont think he's good enough, but there's a lot of good players that dont get in, and people have to realize that. Hines Ward really doesnt seem to be widely considered a future hall of famer by folks other than steeler fans. Let's look at the credentials:

4X pro bowler
3X 2nd team All-Pro
2X Superbowl Champ
1X Superbowl MVP
1X Steelers MVP
2X Steelers Co-MVP
6X 1,000 yard seasons
3X double digit TD receptions
Holds the Franchise record for receptions, receiving yards, and receiving TD's

On top of that, throw in that he's the best blocking WR ever and arguably the toughest (just ask the slew of poor defenders that have fallen by his hands). Sounds like A LOT of credentials, heck, more than enough to get in right? It really isnt anything special compared to other HOF'er wide receivers. There's been a lot of P.O.S players that have gotten in the hall of fame in the past, but look at some of the guys who havent got in. Perfect example? Cris Carter. I bet half of you dont even know who that is even though he should have been a shoe-in for the hall of fame, 1st ballot. Im not doing any more number crunching here because it is unecessary, but homerism put aside, Cris is clearly far better than Hines Ward in every aspect of his game (except blocking and toughness, but let's be serious about what's most important at the wide receiver position). It's not even close, and he hasnt gotten in yet, and it's looking like he never will.

Hines could very easily not even come close to sniffing the hall of fame. Then again, Lynn Swann has never had a 1,000 yard season in his life and never caught more than 61 balls in a year and still got in....there's still hope :yay3:

steeldevil
06-22-2010, 11:26 AM
I think that he will eventually get in. But it wil take a loooooonngg time. If Cris Carter cant even get in on the first ballot then Hines will be in for a long wait...

Devilsdancefloor
06-22-2010, 11:33 AM
he will have the same luck as art monk it will take time, but i think he will be in, but i also thought that about LC as well

Wallace108
06-22-2010, 11:37 AM
I think that he will eventually get in. But it wil take a loooooonngg time. If Cris Carter cant even get in on the first ballot then Hines will be in for a long wait...

^^This is how I see it ... but I hope he eventually gets in.

steelerdude15
06-22-2010, 11:39 AM
He should get in and it's nice to see how everyone else hates us so much. :smile: He is the best all around WR in the NFL and has been for a while. People can complain he is dirty, but there are other players who are/were much dirtier.

BlastFurnace
06-22-2010, 12:27 PM
No question about it. I do think he will get in. He will have to wait though.

Steelerchad
06-22-2010, 01:06 PM
I hope so, but I'm doubtful. Too many "stats" guys in his era at WR the voters will put in ahead of him. Although it's nothing that 1 more ring, a SB MVP, and another few thousand yards wouldn't fix.

CantStop85
06-22-2010, 01:48 PM
He has a chance, but if I had to put money on it, I just can't see it happening.

There's already been a logjam of receivers in the Hall of Fame, and by the time his name comes up for balloting the situation won't be any better.

If there was a Hall of Consistently Really Good, then he would be in no doubt, but the Hall of Fame is designed for the greatest, most dominant players at their respective positions. Most people wouldn't consider him one of the top 5 receivers of his time period with guys like Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce, Randy Moss, Torry Holt, Terrell Owens, and Jimmy Smith also in the league at around the same time. You can't really name a year in his career in which he was considered the top or second best receiver in the league, which I think will really hurt his mystique. Again, it's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Consistently Really Good.

You can make the argument that he was an all-around receiver and that his blocking ability revolutionized the game, but I'm not sure if that's enough to push him in. He definitely has the chance to make it at some point. He definitely won't be a first-balloter....if he makes it he'll probably have to go the route of Art Monk because it will be tough to get him in when you have guys like Bruce, Holt, Harrison, Owens, and Moss possibly going ahead of him.

Psycho Ward 86
06-22-2010, 03:35 PM
He should get in and it's nice to see how everyone else hates us so much. :smile: He is the best all around WR in the NFL and has been for a while. People can complain he is dirty, but there are other players who are/were much dirtier.

homerism fail

GitNoLuv
06-22-2010, 03:50 PM
Got to agree with resident Bengals Fan. If I had a vote, would I put him in? Yes. However, this is a popularity contest...and his name is more remembered for the so called "dirty" hits than anything else. He's just not flashy enough to get there. I doubt he'll ever get into the Hall of Farce.

xX-TSK-Xx
06-22-2010, 04:07 PM
Assuming Ward retires no earlier than two or three seasons from now, he should be in the top 15 in most statistical categories maybe even top 10 in catches. A top 15 reciever (statistically speaking) belongs in the HoF in my opinion. Then you throw in the blocking, Super Bowl MVP, 2 Super Bowl victories, 4 Pro Bowls and a long tenure with one team, I think he will EVENTUALLY make it.

steeldevil
06-22-2010, 04:08 PM
I think it will help Hines that the league is headed into a more pass happy league. That should lead to less and less RB's being enshrined and more and more WR's and TE's being enshrined. However, even with that said, it will likely take Hines at least 12 years after his eligibility begins for him to have a serious chance at it. This is due to his supposedly bad image around the league and also the logjam at the WR position getting into the hall. But if Hines wins another super bowl I definately say he is worthy, I mean, Michael Irvin got in right?

Animal Mother
06-22-2010, 04:36 PM
IMO Super Bowls go a long way. That's why Cris Carter and Andre Reed have fallen short while Irvin gets in. Just my opinion.

zulater
06-22-2010, 04:38 PM
I think he'll get in after 3 or 4 tries. There's more to football than just the numbers, what will eventually get him in is his overall value and contributions to a perrenial contender. Also his numbers is the post season are superior to many of the elite receivers of his era. And not just because he has more post season games than most, but his average production per game is greater during the post season than the regular season.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WardHi00/gamelog/#stats_playoffs

Stlrs4Life
06-22-2010, 05:13 PM
I think he eventually gets in, not first ballot.

Nadroj 20
06-22-2010, 05:17 PM
I have to agree, i think he eventually gets in, but it may take a few tries.

Merchant
06-22-2010, 05:36 PM
Greatest blocking WR in NFL history... Steelers all time leader in almost every receiving category.. Two time super bowl winner and Super Bowl MVP.. And who doesn't love that smile? Yup, he gets my vote.

Burghfan58
06-22-2010, 05:53 PM
Heart, intensity, longevity. No ? needed. He should and will be in some day.

Carolina Steelers
06-22-2010, 06:16 PM
IMO Super Bowls go a long way. That's why Cris Carter and Andre Reed have fallen short while Irvin gets in. Just my opinion.

I agree with this comment

KyleJDavison
06-22-2010, 06:19 PM
Most people wouldn't consider him one of the top 5 receivers of his time period with guys like Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce, Randy Moss, Torry Holt, Terrell Owens, and Jimmy Smith also in the league at around the same time. You can't really name a year in his career in which he was considered the top or second best receiver in the league, which I think will really hurt his mystique.

I think you hit the nail right on the head with that statement. I love Hines Ward, but I just don't see how it's going to happen. I would love for him to get in, and I think he should because he is an incredible receiver, but I think to call him the best all around receiver in the game is a stretch. He works his tail off year in and year out, puts up respectable numbers pretty much every year, but his numbers will always pale in comparison to the players listed above. He may be the toughest WR in the league during this era, but to call him one of the best... I just don't see it.

I am sorry Hines.

86WARD
06-22-2010, 08:28 PM
I love him more than anyone, don't think he gets in on the first ballot...not even sure the voters will let him in. But I think he deserves it. He's one of the best ALL-AROUND players in the league. But he doesn't have the "numbers" to get a free pass. If the Steelers win one more Super Bowl during his tenure, he's in no doubt. Possibly first ballot...and it will seal the hall for Ben as well...if Ben retired instantly.

zulater
06-22-2010, 08:37 PM
Thje NFL Hall of Fame isn't all about the numbers. If it was Lynn Swann never would have got a whiff of Canton. Hines Ward is an impact player on an impactfull team. The Steelers come nowhere close to the success they obtained during his career without Hines. He made the players around him better, his exampe of selflessness is contagious, his ability to rise to the occasion, his full set of intangibles made him a better player than the receivers who appeared on year end All Pro teams. The Hall of Fame selectors will select Ward because they'll realize that there wasn't a receiver who played during his time that would have made the Steelers a better team than what Ward made the Steelers, or for that matter even as good as he helped make them.

He will get in. Not right away, but there's enough support for him in that room that he'll be an eventual inductee.

Butch
06-22-2010, 08:49 PM
Does he deserve to go Hell yes!!!

Will he go...to be honest I don't have faith in the media to put him in. Like was stated before L.C. is not in and for the life of me I can not tell you why. That wind bag Peter King says there are to many Steelers from the 70's and that's just plain hog wash.

Hines is a player who all of Steeler Nation can exonerate for the ages. I like to say he is to the offense what Jack was to the Defense. They both played all out all the time and don't really care what players on other teams think of them. Hines name will always shine in the halls of Steeler Nation.

silver & black
06-22-2010, 09:40 PM
He should get in. I've always liked him because he's a football player, in the true sense of the word. There are lot of deserving players that aren't in the Hall, though. I think Cliff Branch should be in as well, but............

Galax Steeler
06-23-2010, 03:40 AM
I would say yes look what he has brought to the game of football. His toughness and the way he plays the game if there was ever anyone that deserved to go it would be him.

fansince'76
06-23-2010, 01:40 PM
If there was a Hall of Consistently Really Good, then he would be in no doubt, but the Hall of Fame is designed for the greatest, most dominant players at their respective positions. Most people wouldn't consider him one of the top 5 receivers of his time period with guys like Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce, Randy Moss, Torry Holt, Terrell Owens, and Jimmy Smith also in the league at around the same time. You can't really name a year in his career in which he was considered the top or second best receiver in the league, which I think will really hurt his mystique. Again, it's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Consistently Really Good.

There are a number of guys in the HoF who truly don't deserve to be there (Andre Tippett? Please). There are even more guys who should be in there already but aren't (Jerry Kramer, Randy Gradishar, Andre Reed, among a slew of others). The wildcard is the HoF voters, who I gave up trying to figure out years ago. That being said, I think Ward will go in eventually, but he's going to wait a LONG time for it.

BigNastyDefense
06-23-2010, 03:46 PM
It could happen, but I am voting no. He isn't going to have the stats for it. Maybe if he wins a third Super Bowl (and plays a big part in winning that Super Bowl). Otherwise he will need to have 1,000 yard seasons (or close to it) and get more TD's to get in. When he retires, and it comes time for the HoF, he is going to be going against the likes of TO and Moss from this era....and then he might still have Chris Carter and some guys from that era to contend with as well. The HoF overlooks receivers as it is.

Soufjerzz
06-23-2010, 06:36 PM
No - Brainer first ballot Hall of Famer.

zulater
07-05-2010, 07:01 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/tag/_/name/2010-hall-of-fame-debate

Claim to fame: Ward is one of the toughest and smartest receivers to play in the NFL. He never had ideal speed, height or athleticism, but Ward continues to put up outstanding numbers. He has at least 69 receptions in nine consecutive seasons.

Case for enshrinement: Ward is Pittsburgh's all-time leader in receiving yards with 10,947 yards, ahead of Hall of Famers Stallworth and Lynn Swann.

Ward has all the qualities you look for in a Hall of Famer: He's a leader, is productive, and has high character and two Super Bowl rings. Ward also has four Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl MVP on his résumé.

Case against enshrinement: Ward's numbers are not as gaudy as some of his contemporaries. In a pass-heavy era, Ward's stats will be compared to those current receivers Terrell Owens (14,951 yards), Randy Moss (14,465 yards) and Torry Holt (13,382 yards).

Smart voters will understand that Ward played most of his career for a run-first franchise. But there's no guarantee a majority of voters will view it that way. The numbers are the numbers, detractors might argue.

On the blocks: Playing his entire career for mainly a run-first franchise, Ward became the most physical blocking receiver of all time. His blocks have caused concussions and even broken bones. A jaw-breaking hit on Bengals linebacker Keith Rivers in 2008 prompted a rule change against helmet contact from the blind side, often called the "Hines Ward rule."

Bottom line: Ward will be a unique player to gauge when it comes to pure numbers. But owning Pittsburgh's key receiving records and winning a second Super Bowl after the 2008 season should put him over the hump.

BPS3akaWirels3
07-05-2010, 07:48 PM
I'll be there for that day..

Austin87
07-06-2010, 03:35 AM
Ward should definately be in the Hall of Fame. He should make it if he retires today, add a couple of seasons and he'll make it for sure.

He has all the credentials needed IMO. Two time Superbowl champ, Superbowl MVP, Couple of Pro Bowls, 10000 receiving yards and 800+ receptions. All this on a run heavy team,until BA arrived anyways.

SirHulka
07-06-2010, 04:45 AM
Numbers don't always tell the story. for example, Gary Collins has equal numbers to Lynn Swann, was the MVP on a championship team, and punted. But he's not in, and Swann is. Not knocking Swann, but there is more to it than just numbers. I don't think Ward will get in, and it has nothing to do with performance. Like it or not, he has a PERCEIVED reputation as a dirty player. JMHO, but I think that will keep him out.

Burghfan58
07-06-2010, 05:30 PM
Numbers don't always tell the story. for example, Gary Collins has equal numbers to Lynn Swann, was the MVP on a championship team, and punted. But he's not in, and Swann is. Not knocking Swann, but there is more to it than just numbers. I don't think Ward will get in, and it has nothing to do with performance. Like it or not, he has a PERCEIVED reputation as a dirty player. JMHO, but I think that will keep him out.
There are quite a few players in the hall that are percieved or actually were dirty players. Butkus, Bednarik, Deacon Jones, Doug Atkins, Lambert to name a few. Yes these were all defensive players but Hines plays offense like a defensive player and that is one reason he will get in. He has revolutionized the position of wideout. He's a gamer and absolutely deserving of enshrinement.

Carolina Steelers
07-06-2010, 07:24 PM
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5349941

A healthy debate on Ward and Champ Bailey

SirHulka
07-07-2010, 01:51 AM
[/B]
There are quite a few players in the hall that are percieved or actually were dirty players. Butkus, Bednarik, Deacon Jones, Doug Atkins, Lambert to name a few. Yes these were all defensive players but Hines plays offense like a defensive player and that is one reason he will get in. He has revolutionized the position of wideout. He's a gamer and absolutely deserving of enshrinement.

Those were the old days. (You forgot about conrad Dobler, who used to wear vampire teeth) I just think that in today's world, the criteria has changed. If LT, Tony Gonzales, and Ward all retire the same year, no way Ward gets in on the first ballot. Of course, time will tell, but JMHO, I don't think his reputation will help him.

LLT
07-07-2010, 05:21 AM
Assuming Ward retires no earlier than two or three seasons from now, he should be in the top 15 in most statistical categories maybe even top 10 in catches. A top 15 reciever (statistically speaking) belongs in the HoF in my opinion. Then you throw in the blocking, Super Bowl MVP, 2 Super Bowl victories, 4 Pro Bowls and a long tenure with one team, I think he will EVENTUALLY make it.

Actually...Ward as quietly worked his way into being one of the top 10 reception leaders of all time..and should be there by the end of THIS season.

1. Jerry Rice+ 1,549
2. Marvin Harrison 1,102
3. Cris Carter 1,101
4. Tim Brown 1,094
5. Isaac Bruce (37) 1,024
6. Terrell Owens (36) 1,006
7. Tony Gonzalez (33) 999
8. Andre Reed 951
9. Art Monk+ 940
10. Randy Moss (32) 926
11. Torry Holt (33) 920
12. Hines Ward (33) 895
(**highlighted players are still active)

By the end of this year...if he catches 80+ balls he will surpass Art Monk & Andre Reed and in most likely hood will pass Torry Holt who will play for the Patriots this year as a 3rd WR. This will put him at #10 all time. There is at least the chance, if Hines plays for two more years, that he could crack the top 5...probably depending more on the production of Moss & Gonzales then players on the decline like Owens and Bruce.

Burghfan58
07-07-2010, 06:37 AM
Those were the old days. (You forgot about conrad Dobler, who used to wear vampire teeth) I just think that in today's world, the criteria has changed. If LT, Tony Gonzales, and Ward all retire the same year, no way Ward gets in on the first ballot. Of course, time will tell, but JMHO, I don't think his reputation will help him.
I didn't forget Dobler, he's not in the hall. Also I'm not convinced that Hines will be elected the first year eligible just that he will get in.

SirHulka
07-07-2010, 07:57 AM
I know he's not, but he's an offensive (both ways) guy, and pretty notorious. I just wanted to mention him.

memphissteelergirl
07-07-2010, 10:42 AM
he will have the same luck as art monk it will take time, but i think he will be in, but i also thought that about LC as well

That's just what I was thinking...if Monk didn't get in until a couple of years ago with the numbers he had, it may shape up the same way for Hines.
That said.....I have NO doubt he'll eventually get in.

And you're right....LC should have been in LONG before now! I think the voters have some kind of aversion to voting in Steeler players...get they think they're too many in there already. Good problem to have if ya think about it ;-)

GitNoLuv
07-07-2010, 11:48 AM
Actually...Ward as quietly worked his way into being one of the top 10 reception leaders of all time..and should be there by the end of THIS season.

5. Isaac Bruce (37) 1,024
6. Terrell Owens (36) 1,006
7. Tony Gonzalez (33) 999
10. Randy Moss (32) 926
11. Torry Holt (33) 920
12. Hines Ward (33) 895
(**highlighted players are still active)

By the end of this year...if he catches 80+ balls he will surpass Art Monk & Andre Reed and in most likely hood will pass Torry Holt who will play for the Patriots this year as a 3rd WR. This will put him at #10 all time. There is at least the chance, if Hines plays for two more years, that he could crack the top 5...probably depending more on the production of Moss & Gonzales then players on the decline like Owens and Bruce.

Of all the active players, he will probably pas Bruce and Owens (they just don't have that many good years left) assuming he stays healthy. Almost everyone on that list (except for Jerry Rice) is reasonably within reach, meaning he likely will be a Top 5 in receptions. Couple that with the SB victories, the SB MVP...he has an outside chance of getting in.

I think he has a pretty good shot of passing up Moss as well...because once Moss loses his speed, he doesn't have the toughness necessary to make up for it by being a guy who goes over the middle and makes the tough catches. Holt will go over the middle. So will Gonzalez. Those guys will be tougher to pass, though Holt is defiinitely in reach...because he doen't play in the Martz offense anymore...and Ward never did.

So, it is entirely reasonable to say that Ward has an outside shot of landing as a Top 3 guy (all time) in catches if he can have 5 more healthy years. Assuming that he can average 50 catches a year over the next 5 years.

However, we are talking about the Hall of Farce voters. They kept Art Monk out for far too long. Chris Carter had the disadvantage of playing when Jerry Rice played...or else he might have been the best of his era. Ray Guy (the standard when it comes to punting) isn't in. Dermonti Dawson hasn't made it yet. The Hall of Farce is all about the pretty...and Hines Ward is not a pretty player. He's a tough, knock your block off, throwback player who plays the game right, which won't win him any extra votes.

LLT
07-07-2010, 12:20 PM
Of all the active players, he will probably pas Bruce and Owens (they just don't have that many good years left) assuming he stays healthy. Almost everyone on that list (except for Jerry Rice) is reasonably within reach, meaning he likely will be a Top 5 in receptions. Couple that with the SB victories, the SB MVP...he has an outside chance of getting in.

I think he has a pretty good shot of passing up Moss as well...because once Moss loses his speed, he doesn't have the toughness necessary to make up for it by being a guy who goes over the middle and makes the tough catches. Holt will go over the middle. So will Gonzalez. Those guys will be tougher to pass, though Holt is defiinitely in reach...because he doen't play in the Martz offense anymore...and Ward never did.

So, it is entirely reasonable to say that Ward has an outside shot of landing as a Top 3 guy (all time) in catches if he can have 5 more healthy years. Assuming that he can average 50 catches a year over the next 5 years.

However, we are talking about the Hall of Farce voters. They kept Art Monk out for far too long. Chris Carter had the disadvantage of playing when Jerry Rice played...or else he might have been the best of his era. Ray Guy (the standard when it comes to punting) isn't in. Dermonti Dawson hasn't made it yet. The Hall of Farce is all about the pretty...and Hines Ward is not a pretty player. He's a tough, knock your block off, throwback player who plays the game right, which won't win him any extra votes.

Great post!!! Right on the money.