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Killer
06-20-2010, 07:00 PM
Dropping like a rock



1 -- Kevin Harvick
2 +4 Jimmie Johnson -140
3 -1 Kyle Busch -141
4 -1 Denny Hamlin -151
5 +2 Jeff Gordon -192
6 -2 Kurt Busch -216
7 -2 Matt Kenseth -242
8 -- Jeff Burton -307
9 -- Greg Biffle -323
10 +1 Tony Stewart -351
11 +1 Mark Martin -387
12 -2 Carl Edwards -402

Galax Steeler
06-21-2010, 04:09 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing Harvick beat out Johnson but that probably isn't going to happen.

Killer
06-21-2010, 05:23 AM
The aussie had the race won then blew it by shutting off his motor and lost track position when he couldn't get it fired coasting around under the yellow.

What a blunder

HometownGal
06-21-2010, 06:03 AM
The aussie had the race won then blew it by shutting off his motor and lost track position when he couldn't get it fired coasting around under the yellow.

What a blunder

Ambrose's blunder was JJ's gain! :clap2: :thumbsup: Believe me, I'm not complainin'. :heh:

Killer
06-21-2010, 07:00 AM
JJ's car couldn't come close to beating Ambrose if he was out front....That was an IDIOTIC DECISION to shut it off trying to coast UPHILL.

did Mikey tell him to do it?

suitanim
06-21-2010, 10:40 AM
Well, it's game over. Once a driver masters turning right, it means they truly know how to drive. So that ends any debate about Johnson's stick and rudder ability (although I suspect there will be a contrary opinion or two from the usual suspects). Fact is, road courses are the true litmus test of driver ability in ANY type of car, open wheel or not.

I'm kind of liking the new aggressiveness of Gordon, too...yeah, he punted Truex, but Montoya was rattling his cage behind him, and sometimes things just get ugly.

HometownGal
06-21-2010, 02:08 PM
JJ's car couldn't come close to beating Ambrose if he was out front....That was an IDIOTIC DECISION to shut it off trying to coast UPHILL.

did Mikey tell him to do it?

Shit happens sometimes and so do idiotic decisions - they all make 'em during their careers.

As I stated above - however JJ won the race, I'm not complainin'. :yay3:

tony hipchest
06-21-2010, 06:24 PM
road racing sucks and is for pansy eurofags. pretty funny to see jaques villeneuve trying to duke it out with the busch series boys this weekend. good to know james johnson is a road course "master" now, though. :chuckle:

suitanim
06-22-2010, 09:13 PM
http://www.ohio.com/sports/96860099.html

CHARLOTTE, N.C.: Jeff Gordon made so many drivers mad at Infineon Raceway, it would be easier to keep a scorecard of those who had no issue with the four-time NASCAR champion.

Just about everybody was steaming at somebody: Joey Logano wasn't thrilled with Juan Pablo Montoya; Tony Stewart caught an earful from Boris Said's crew chief; and Carl Edwards unleashed his anger at newcomer Jan Magnussen.

And that's just what played out in public!

After Sunday's race on the road course in Sonoma, Calif., NASCAR got raw emotion from competitors ordinarily branded as corporate robots.

For some time, fans have pined for the old days when drivers feuded and never backed down.

The combination of conservative, brand-conscious sponsors and NASCAR's desire to eliminate a Wild West mentality sterilized the sport and left fans lamenting the loss of personality.

Spurred by positive fan reaction to last season's feud between Denny Hamlin and Brad Keselowski — not to mention the passionate responses, good and bad, to anything Kyle Busch related — NASCAR began to loosen its reins. With it came the infamous ''Boys, have at it and have a good time'' edict in January from Robin Pemberton, vice president of competition.

Sixteen races into the season, boy, are they having at it.

Rarely does a race end without somebody mad at someone. Only now, after years of containing that anger until drivers were back in the comfort of the motorhome lot, these spats are there for everyone to see.

Carl Edwards, tired of how Keselowski was racing him, intentionally wrecked him at Atlanta as retaliation for an earlier accident. Keselowski's car sailed into the safety fence at Atlanta. When NASCAR let Edwards go with a slap on the wrist, the gloves were officially off.

Hamlin has traded barbs with Busch, who threatened to kill his Joe Gibbs Racing teammate over his radio during the All-Star race. Gordon has publicly criticized four-time defending champion Jimmie Johnson, his Hendrick Motorsports teammate, who felt the need to apologize for contact at Talladega.

Gordon intentionally knocked Matt Kenseth out of his way at Martinsville, and Clint Bowyer ran into Hamlin's car at Dover as retaliation for an earlier incident.

And nobody has forgotten young Logano standing up to Kevin Harvick on pit road at Pocono this month, then emasculating Harvick with his public declaration that Harvick's wife ''wears the firesuit in the family.''

So it was no surprise to see so many drivers so outspoken at Sonoma.

Among them was Martin Truex Jr., who vowed retaliation against Gordon for wrecking him. There also was Elliott Sadler, who was still upset at Gordon on Monday and posted on his Twitter page: ''Some people think they are bigger than the sport itself and want everyone else to lay over. I DISAGREE!!!''

Gordon, for his part, accepted responsibility for what happened with Truex and Sadler. But when it came to contact with Kurt Busch? Not so much.

''Kurt Busch had everything coming to him that I gave him because he gave it to me on the restart before that, so I don't feel sorry about that,'' Gordon offered.

This is exactly the drama NASCAR had been lacking the last several years.

You may not like the way Gordon raced Sunday or the language one driver used to criticize another, but you have to admit: It's a whole lot more interesting these days.

Galax Steeler
06-23-2010, 04:03 AM
Let them fight and go at it then alot of those races would be worth watching.

SteelMember
06-23-2010, 07:59 AM
Wow, That story was so good I read it twice. :doh:









:chuckle: :noidea:

HometownGal
06-23-2010, 08:28 AM
Wow, That story was so good I read it twice. :doh:











:chuckle: :noidea:

LOL! I saw the double article and fixed it. :thumbsup:

suitanim
06-23-2010, 04:37 PM
As far as the road courses go, it IS finesse. It takes great skill...the drivers have to focus on all the usual plus the intricate foot-work, and it's not typical "mash the peddle and go" type driving. There are several additional elements that make it a much more difficult type of racing to master. Only the best stick and rudder guys are able to tame the NASCAR horsepower and unwieldy cars and make them go left and right.

Ironically, road course racing is very much in keeping with the roots of NASCAR...I doubt many of the bootleggers running from the law were solely turning left in big wide angled ovals...but those original moonshiners were just bunch of "pansy euro fags", I'm sure...

tony hipchest
06-23-2010, 05:49 PM
Ironically, road course racing is very much in keeping with the roots of NASCAR...I doubt many of the bootleggers running from the law were solely turning left in big wide angled ovals...but those original moonshiners were just bunch of "pansy euro fags", I'm sure...

LMAO! fail on so many different levels, i dont even know where to begin. dont try to school me on NASCAR history with that prissy danica patric talk. incase anyone missed the weak and lame comparison, revs just equated manly, american, good ol boy, moonshiners to girls.

haulin moonshine was nothing about "finesse". it was about maximum payload, balls to the wall, muscle and power, knowledge of the routes, and tricking out an american stock car to outrun the law.

i was watching rusty wallace dominate the "stick and rudder" tracks, long before jeff gordon attracted so many northerners and corporate newbs to the sport. dont mean im delusional enough to think he was greater than dale earnhardt, though.

this is really like saying american atheletes in the 4 major american sports, couldnt dominate in soccer, or that some of the top metal guitarists couldnt play classical music.

i will admit that turning right takes skill. but then again, so does knitting and latch hook.

if anything, road course racing is 1/18th of keeping with the "roots" of NASCAR, but the reality of the matter is theres a reason the frances built daytona and not a road course. it doesnt take a genius to figure that out.

but now that jimmy johnson has finally "mastered" the true racing, i am glad front running gordon fans (jumping off the wagon) have a new lugnut to hug.

:sofunny:

suitanim
06-23-2010, 05:57 PM
Lots of typing...a bunch of insults. Insinuations of superior intellect (but only from the "he who doth protest too much" school), and basically nothing to refute the FACT that the drivers themselves admit they hate road racing because it's just so damned HARD to do.

So, if you can't beat the argument on it's merits, simply dismiss the subject matter as inferior. That's lowest common denominator gutter logic.

The bottom line is, the drivers you hate are good at it. The posters you hate like the drivers you hate. So it must be bad, must be dismissed, must be insulted and denigrated.

3rd rate as usual, and transparent as Hell...

And here's where you'll get in trouble, Tony. You won't let this go. You'll push and push, make shit up, deflect, spin, twist, insult, deny, any tool in the box to try and make this dogshit of a position of yours valid.

But the argument is over before it began. Road racing is the MOST difficult discipline in NASCAR. Only the very best and skillful drivers can master it. Even drivers you hate and say can't drive.

So you're wrong. You lose. Again.

tony hipchest
06-23-2010, 06:09 PM
bunch of typing... a bunch of insults... blah blah blah.

you fail again. huge rusty wallace fan here. best NASCAR road course driver ever. taught jeffy everything he knows.

robbie gordon and marcus ambrose (even fellows and said) would dust jimmie johnson on road courses.

its bad enough you quit watching NASCAR over a year ago, now youre pimping F-1 type skill in NASCAR threads? watch freaking F-1 then. :doh:

game set match.

nice sig.

oh and mastering the draft is WAY more difficult than doing what danica patrick does.

suitanim
06-23-2010, 06:29 PM
They draft at a BUNCH of tracks.

Or do you think it only happens at plate tracks?

Maybe you do....maybe you do....Do a little research. Educate yourself. I'll give you a day head start. You ARE a google expert and you can do a lot of "learning" in one day.

Rusty is a fine road racer. When the real talent starting showing up in NASCAR he stopped winning, but he was still the best real technical driver (him and Rudd) from the old school hillbillies.

tony hipchest
06-23-2010, 07:00 PM
Rusty is a fine road racer. When the real talent starting showing up in NASCAR he stopped winning, but he was still the best real technical driver (him and Rudd) from the old school hillbillies.

so 10 minutes ago you were applauding the skill of the bootleggers and moonshiners and now they are just a bunch of talentless hilljacks?

LMAO! way to argue youreself into a corner. ;toofunny:

you suck at this. give it up (like you did NASCAR).

suitanim
06-23-2010, 10:24 PM
(Sigh)

Are you REALLY that stupid?

Maybe you are.

OK, let me help you out, Bunker Map.

The ORIGINAL drivers who started NASCAR honed their skills during Prohibition. That was a LONG time ago...it PREceded NASCAR. So the drivers running moonshine who founded NASCAR did so like 80 years ago. That would qualify as the roots. Oh...math. Prohibition was 1920-1933.

Got it?

So ANY argument about the actual entity of NASCAR actually having much to do with bootlegging is allegorical.

I'll help you...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=nascar_com-inside.line.dcaraviello.mmartin.road.curse.attitud e.infineon-20100619

Mark Martin learned to race much like the moonshiners did, tearing down the hilly, curvy dirt roads of his native rural Arkansas, trying to keep his car out of the ditch. That experience paid dividends once he moved into NASCAR’s premier division, where despite an oval-track professional background, he took to road courses like a natural—as his four career victories on the twisty circuits would suggest.


There's a head start for you...I have dozen's of CITED sources that back my point, most of them from the actual drivers themselves saying pretty much what I've been saying and YOU have NOT been saying.

Get googling, bitch! You're already WAY behind!

tony hipchest
06-23-2010, 10:49 PM
:sofunny:

NASCAR was founded by bill france around 1950 (15 or so years after prohibition ended). many drivers were bootleggers, a point that i have already established.

that still doesnt change the fact that you like girlie euro racing. just admit it and move on. you got no face that you need to save with me. you can take your nascar for beginner 101 courses to some fellow f-1 fans on an f-1 board.

the trophy jimmie johnson won on sunday is no bigger than any of the others, the points earned are still the same, and the payday is less.

i know you are still smarting about robert smith but you really need to let that go, practice some self control, and learn to lose a debate civilly w/o all the name calling.

suitanim
06-24-2010, 10:35 AM
Robert Smith? Huh? I asked you to prove he was a pothead. I saw a couple articles that said he admitted to occasionally smoking weed. Randy Moss says HALF the NFL occasionally uses weed! The NFL's own studies have the figure at 20%. Are they all "potheads"?

You LOST that argument.

As far as the rest, this is typical Bumper Map garbage. You pick your opinion based on it running contrary to people you don't like or have schooled you in the past, then try to just outpost them when they show you up again. It's an ass backward way of posting. You don't know anything about the position you choose to defend, then you make a mad google scramble to try to find some kind of back-up to cover for your lack of knowledge on the subject. You really would be better off if you just stuck with tossing off a few jokes and posting pictures. The Bunker Map incident illustrates this perfectly. You got pissed off because we all laughed at what a fucking retard Joe Biden is, so you, knowing NOTHING ABOUT THE ACTUAL SUBJECT, posted up some completely unrelated nonsense then thumped your chest in "victory". It was such a sad display of third rate political hackery that I almost felt sorry for you after I stopped laughing at you...

Also, do you realize that it's not a personal attack when it's true? If you act stupid, say stupid things, and continue to defend stupidity, that pretty much makes you stupid. How could I be attacking you or insulting you by telling the plain and simple truth?

Anyway, here's a TON of articles and stuff, mostly from NASCAR drivers themselves, substantiating everything I'VE stated. I know that won't stand up to your "I'm right because I say so" logic, but garbage in, garbage out. Try posting some actual CONTENT from time to time and I might take you a little more seriously...

First off, the hillbillies didn’t even bother to TRY and figure out how to run the road courses:

http://www.nascar.com/2009/news/opinion/08/08/inside.line.dcaraviello.ringers.becoming.extinct/1.html



I think the field in the old days, you could say, all right, it's going to be Mark Martin, Rusty Wallace, and Ricky Rudd. You could count on that. But now there are 15, 20 guys that could win the race here easy."



10 years ago wasn't nearly as competitive as it is now. That's probably the biggest difference. You'd show up with a short track car at Watkins Glen, maybe finish in the top 20, top 25, and move on.



Cup cars harder to drive on road courses…and finesse is important.



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2003-08-05-road-specialists_x.htm



Fellows says that Winston Cup cars are harder to drive on a road course than the Corvette prototype he races in the ALMS. Cup cars are about 1,000 pounds heavier and more powerful but have smaller tires and brakes. And the ALMS car's sleek body makes it stick to the track better than a Cup car.

Still, Fellows says Cup cars are "a lot of fun to race."

"I enjoy the finesse side of it," he says. "They're not easy to drive at all. You're always on edge — and there's nothing wrong with that."





Mark Martin chimes in:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=nascar_com-inside.line.dcaraviello.mmartin.road.curse.attitud e.infineon-20100619



Mark Martin learned to race much like the moonshiners did, tearing down the hilly, curvy dirt roads of his native rural Arkansas, trying to keep his car out of the ditch. That experience paid dividends once he moved into NASCAR’s premier division, where despite an oval-track professional background, he took to road courses like a natural—as his four career victories on the twisty circuits would suggest.

Yet among his contemporaries, Martin was something of an anomaly. In a sport once dominated by former late model drivers raised on circular short tracks, road course races were almost a necessary evil, something to be tolerated more than embraced. They set their jaw, gritted their teeth, and did what they had to do to get to the next oval.



Also, the drivers are actually training to drive the courses, and learning just how challenging they actually are:

And then there’s the Bondurant School, a Phoenix driving academy visited regularly by dozens of NASCAR competitors looking to brush up on their road racing skills. This new breed of NASCAR drivers has grown so proficient on road courses that it’s effectively brought the era of ringers to an end, forcing specialists like Said or Ron Fellows into lower-tier cars or Nationwide Series rides. It’s reached the point where even drivers like Denny Hamlin, a very typical former late model driver with almost exclusively an oval-track background, is able to make the transition somewhat effortlessly. Once he figured out to downshift—perhaps the biggest challenge road racing neophytes face—places like Infineon began to feel like short tracks, only with more curves.



More:



http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/headlines/cup/06/23/road.racing.nascar/index.html



"When you're racing round tracks you drive by feel, by the seat of your pants," he said. "You drive by how the car feels under you, the arc you make, what it does in the corner, off the gas, back in the gas, all that.

"When you go to road-course racing, what I have to concentrate on is looking further ahead, hitting your marks -- instead of within a foot or two, within inches -- and don't worry about what it feels like because it's more what your eyes are seeing.

"You still have to drive by feel. You can't just go out there and mat the throttle and spin it out. But the feel is more robotic. It's robotic driving -- I turn in here, get on the brake here. No matter what it feels like. You need to make sure the car stays under you throughout that uncomfortable situation."

"The driver is the most important part of road-course racing, and I don't believe he's always the most important part of oval-track racing," McGrew said.

"Not that he's not an important part [of oval racing]. But he may not be the most important part. He is at a road course. You can put a good road-course racer in a mediocre car and run well. You can't do that in an oval-track car."

Dale Jr says: "In a road course you are in control of where you finish".



Bootie Barker:



"If you're going to have a champion, you need a road course, you need a short track, you need a speedway, you need a 2-mile 18-degreer, you need a mile-and-a-half, pretty-banked one. You need Martinsville," Barker said.

"Reason I say that is, some of those tracks are more [about] strong teams. Some are more [about] strong drivers. You need the best team and man. That said, yes we need them.



Ricky Rudd says they dumbed the tracks down for NASCAR:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1037825/index.htm



Over the years they continued to change that track to make it more driver friendly where more drivers could run closer together. And the skill level that it took on a scale with 10 being the most difficult, it used to be an 8 or 9 level of difficulty. Now it is down to about a 3 or 4, and I'd put Watkins Glen in the same category.



F-1 drivers quickly master Cup cars…

http://www.roadandtrack.com/racing/motorsports/why-are-f1-drivers-testing-nascar-stockers

“But I am enjoying it. Step by step. I’m used to a very stiff car really on the ground, and this one just has a different way of reacting. In some ways I would say it is easier for a Formula 1 driver because the time reaction is slow, so I can figure it out.

During the afternoon, NASCAR legend Mark Martin stopped by. He agreed that 18.5 was a good target lap time and talked with Trulli, Salo, Barker and Bayne about car setup, offering the thought that the half-mile oval was like a road course, “…except the two turns go left.”



So how did Trulli and Salo do against Bayne’s target 18.5-sec. lap? Identically; the pair ran consistent 18.7s…an impressive start.

LOT of shifting…

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2006-08-09-sw-cover-watkins-glen_x.htm



"There is just a lot more going on," Knaus says. "There are a lot more cycles through the linkage. You're making 12 shifts a lap at Watkins Glen

tony hipchest
06-24-2010, 06:19 PM
thats some impressive google work there. "dance clown, dance!"

all for naught though (the regurgitation wasnt even worth reading). you cant school me on anything NASCAR. you bring nothing new to the table. ive had the same cyber argument a hunnerd times with supposed high minded f-1 afficiandos, and what you bring is an exact carbon copy. you might as well be saying soccer takes more skill than football.

see, i actually watch the races. if you did, you would know that jimmie johnson didnt even win the race as much as marcus ambrose lost it. put in the same equipment, he woulda drove right handed circles around JJ and the rest of the field. doesnt mean he is the cream of the drivers crop, though.

i think ive missed only one road course race in nearly 20 years. i have a library of nearly 10 complete seasons of races on video. how the hell are you gonna school me with 3-4 hours scouring google?

but you know which are the races that i have recorded over the most? the road courses. you know why? because road racing is for pansy euro-fags who like to jerk their little weenies while fantasizing about ferrari's and sticks and rudders.

thats good that JJ sneaking in the back door gives you the sort of cybervalidation you so desperately crave. but unfortunately for the yucca mountain ego, not of the diatribe you wasted your time with changes the fact that-


road racing sucks and is for pansy eurofags. pretty funny to see jaques villeneuve trying to duke it out with the busch series boys this weekend. good to know james johnson is a road course "master" now, though. :chuckle:

tony hipchest
06-24-2010, 07:07 PM
i almost cant wait to be absolutely bored enough to destroy the cherry picked quotes from the articles above...




F-1 drivers quickly master Cup cars…BWAHAHAHAHAHA(tears running down face)HAHAHAHAHAHA!

“It’s difficult to follow NASCAR in Europe. Not many TV channels show it and it’s on in the middle of the night when nice little Formula 1 drivers are asleep".

Most difficult part of testing the Sprint Cup car? Salo smiled again and said, “Getting in and out…and it’s hot inside.”

*pansy alert* :mod:



[note the VERY important part left out of this cherry picked quote]-

“But I am enjoying it. Step by step. I’m used to a very stiff car really on the ground, and this one just has a different way of reacting. In some ways I would say it is easier for a Formula 1 driver because the time reaction is slow, so I can figure it out. On the other hand, there are a lot of little details that can make you go slow.


“So far from what I’ve understood, you need to be not just a skilled driver, but a smart person as well. You need to be thinking, what’s happening? What’s going on? Can I change this…my driving style…the track is going off…the tires…so many things.”


“You’d better have your expectations in check. I think it takes a Juan Pablo Montoya to do it, and I don’t think those dudes are a dime a dozen. I think you’ve got to have that kind of talent and dedication and have a group like Montoya had—Ganassi—to continue to work through the learning curve. It’s a tremendous challenge.” He added, “Montoya says this is the toughest of all that he’s done.”


debunked. these guys are has been/never was f-1 drivers, and "never will be's" in cup. example fail.


oh, and 18.5 on a high banked half mile track in a cup car completely sucks. i could do that getting out of bed tomorrow morning, before coffee. :coffee:

suitanim
06-25-2010, 08:13 AM
Zero content outside of your opinion, which is most often, quite frankly, simply wrong.

For ONCE it would be refreshing if you actually posted a fact, or a figure...some real data outside your own delusional thoughts and opinions.

Oh wait...you DID that once. When you posted that bunker map.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!

Let me help you again. I DID watch the race...true, Ambrose had a great car, but so did Johnson. In fact, JJ led 55 laps compared to Ambrose's 35. So why did Johnson win? Because HE didn't make a mistake...which goes back to what Earnhardt Jr. said about road course racing: "YOU determine where you finish". Oh, and I don't watch F-1.

This whole thing can be summed up quite succinctly with your ignorant and arrogant line: "You can't school me". Show me someone who thinks they can't learn anything new, and I'll show you a fool.

Fool.

tony hipchest
06-25-2010, 07:33 PM
nothing but personal attacks i see.

par for the course.

there is definitely more to learn... just not from the likes of you. you can blame yourself for bringing tired and weak "data and facts" to the table (ones that i absolutely destroyed).

i learned a long time ago to not take the opinions of homer front runners seriously, as their opinions are jaded with rose colored glasses. you are to team hendrick what patfans are to brady. :bananadoggywow:

and road racing is still for pansy euro-fags which explains why 34 of nascars 36 events (not even counting the shootout and all star race) are on oval tracks.

i got NASCAR backing me. you got you.

HometownGal
06-25-2010, 07:42 PM
Listen gentlemen. This shit stops and stops NOW. I've had about enough of the baits, flames and hijacks. This is the last warning you are going to get.

In other words - knock off the bullshit. I'm fucking sick of it. :mad2:

I'm locking down this thread, which is a damned pity as there was some good conversation going on in here. Don't even think about carrying this juvenile behavior into another thread - capeche??? :mad2: