Ike Taylor Has Better Stats Than Nnamdi Asomugha

[SteelerEmpire]

Harris: Among CBs, it's easy to like Ike

By John Harris, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, June 14, 2011


John Harris is a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review sports columnist and can be reached at 412-481-5432 or via e-mail.

He's considered the best. Well, at least until common sense takes over.

Unrestricted free-agent cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha is a pretty good football player. A former first-round draft pick, he's considered a lockdown corner because of his ability to prevent opposing receivers from catching the ball.

But you know what? Asomugha may not be as good as advertised.

LINK: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_741941.html?utm_source=bleacherreport.com&utm_medium=referral

[SteelerFanInStl]

Let's not talk about how good Ike is until we get him signed.

[suitanim]

Wow...this will never fly around here...

[fansince'76]

The only thing that has kept Taylor from being a perennial All-Pro is his hands. Kinda common knowledge, no?

[HometownGal]

The only thing that has kept Taylor from being a perennial All-Pro is his hands. Kinda common knowledge, no?

BINGO. If we can sign Ike, I'd still take him over Aso. He knows the system and is very well liked and respected by his teammates, coaches and the fans.

[salamander]

http://images0.cpcache.com/product/92446820v4_480x480_Front.jpg

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Another case where statistics can be misleading. After all, most NFL players, coaches, general managers would value Ike Taylor over Asumogua anyday..........right??

I mean, teams throw away from Ike because he locks down half of the field....correct?

And the Steelers playing off man coverage as opposed to the Raiders playing more man to man coverage makes statistical comparisons equal.

[GBMelBlount]

Another case where statistics can be misleading. After all, most NFL players, coaches, general managers would value Ike Taylor over Asumogua anyday..........right??

I mean, teams throw away from Ike because he locks down half of the field....correct?

And the Steelers playing off man coverage as opposed to the Raiders playing more man to man coverage makes statistical comparisons equal.

Point taken. There are a lot of variables that are different in Pgh and Oakland that likely effect the stats while Harris is presenting this in somewhat of "a stat is a stat is a stat" manner.

Regardless, Ike is an elite cornerback in my book.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Point taken. There are a lot of variables that are different in Pgh and Oakland that likely effect the stats while Harris is presenting this in somewhat of "a stat is a stat is a stat" manner.

Regardless, Ike is an elite cornerback in my book.
I agree, if we say there is 64 starting CB's in the NFL....I think Ike is somewhere in the top 10-15. Nnamdi is probably top 3 IMO.

[SteelerEmpire]

Found more stuff on the subject...

http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/44/44301f5cbb3d583f63a8bead69942656/higher_education_the_greatness_of_ike_taylor_and_o ther_things_that_will_make_your_head_explode.jpg

Higher Education: The ‘greatness’ of Ike Taylor, and other things that will make your head explode
By Doug Farrar

Our new "Higher Education" series isn't just about discussing pro football's advanced metrics in context with the Yahoo Sports audience; it's also occasionally about an article we see that makes us do the full "AROO?!?!?!?", Scooby Doo style.
So it was when we read this column in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, published on Tueday. A fellow by the name of John Harris went to great lengths to convince us all that Pittsburgh Steelers cornerback Ike Taylor(notes) is actually better than Oakland Raiders cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha(notes).

LINK: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Higher-Education-The-8216-greatness-8217-of;_ylt=AjFGp2BHOxkACIf9GcOyK_hDubYF?urn=nfl-wp2640

[suitanim]

This is just more apology for CB's who only have half a game. Deion was the first (and worst). If you want to play CB for the Steelers, you'll have to be prepared to blitz, and to come up and play at least run zone (and be prepared to make a tackle) because of all the complex player movements and odd assignments. The argument that secondary players making tackles meant that you had a porous front seven died about 15 years ago. Hell, many defenses actually funnel plays back to their secondary.

Fact is, the Steelers defense defines the player, and not the other way around. You MUST be willing to put your head down and smack pads to play CB for the Steelers. Some guys don't or won't, and they aren't going to cut it.

[SteelerEmpire]

This is just more apology for CB's who only have half a game. Deion was the first (and worst). If you want to play CB for the Steelers, you'll have to be prepared to blitz, and to come up and play at least run zone (and be prepared to make a tackle) because of all the complex player movements and odd assignments. The argument that secondary players making tackles meant that you had a porous front seven died about 15 years ago. Hell, many defenses actually funnel plays back to their secondary.

Fact is, the Steelers defense defines the player, and not the other way around. You MUST be willing to put your head down and smack pads to play CB for the Steelers. Some guys don't or won't, and they aren't going to cut it.

Here's a good angle left by a poster on there (the article in frame 10):


Man that "targeted" stat really throws some light on the subject, but I would ask this, "How many games did the opposing team (against the Raiders) spend most the second half running the ball to protect the lead?" and therefor threw the ball a lot less. Add that to the fact that teams rarely stick to the run against the Steelers and it is not too surprising that Ike had more balls thrown his way. Even so, that doesn't change the fact that despite such a vast disparity between "times targeted," the two men have complied mostly similar numbers.

Regardless, with the Steelers issues at DB, the team should re-sign Ike Taylor and, if they feel inclined to go completely out of character, Pittsburgh should also go after Asomugha! I know, never happen.

At least last year anyway, the Steelers had the # 1 run defense. And the word was out that you can pass on the Steelers all day. So I would wonder what the run-pass ratio for the two teams were last year... as well as since Ike and Nnamdi have been in the league ? Hmmm...

[fansince'76]

At least last year anyway, the Steelers had the # 1 run defense. And the word was out that you can pass on the Steelers all day. So I would wonder what the run-pass ratio for the two teams were last year... as well as since Ike and Nnamdi have been in the league ? Hmmm...

Exactly. He whines about Harris' "cherry-picked statistics" and then proceeds to present cherry-picked statistics of his own. Why air it out 40-50+ times against a team when you can just run the ball down their throats all day long? Bottom line is that Asomugha is pretty much picked by default for the annual popularity contest known as the Pro Bowl, so he's somehow perceived as being "miles better." While I still give Aso an edge due to Taylor's stone hands, the gap between them is really not that big.

[SteelerEmpire]

Exactly. He whines about Harris' "cherry-picked statistics" and then proceeds to present cherry-picked statistics of his own. Why air it out 40-50+ times against a team when you can just run the ball down their throats all day long? Bottom line is that Asomugha is pretty much picked by default for the annual popularity contest known as the Pro Bowl, so he's somehow perceived as being "miles better." While I still give Aso an edge due to Taylor's stone hands, the gap between them is really not that big.

Well put. If it weren't for Ike's hands there wouldn't be such a difference. However, Ike (who's speed rivals Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson, etc...) is faster than Nnamdi, so it's a matter of basic physics that Ike can cover the more speed receivers and chase down speedsters better than Nnamdi.

[silver & black]

I told you guys a while back that Asomugha is overrated. Who needs to throw the ball on the Raiders when the run D is so lousy? Hey... I'm as big a Raiders fan as there is, but I hope Nnamdi goes somewhere else to play. If he goes to a team in a division with stout run D's, he's going to get exposed as "better than average", but hardly elite.

[HometownGal]

Well put. If it weren't for Ike's hands there wouldn't be such a difference. However, Ike (who's speed rivals Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson, etc...) is faster than Nnamdi, so it's a matter of basic physics that Ike can cover the more speed receivers and chase down speedsters better than Nnamdi.

:applaudit: :thumbsup: :applaudit:

While it would be great to have both Ike and Aso, hell has a better chance of freezing over. I'd still take Ike.

[Craic]

I have to admit, this part of the article is completely right:

The moral is: Whatever we think we see on the field, and whatever we think the stats tell us, there's always more to the story. People who couch numbers to their own advantage really do not help the process.

Yet, they fall into the same trap. Using targeting, as others have said here, only shows that the ball has been thrown, not [I]why[I] the ball the has been thrown Ike's way. More to the point, when they have similar numbers, but Ike has been targeted three times more, it shows that Ike is able to be that much more consistent over a much larger body of work.

Personally, I would love for the Steelers to pick up Asom. I think he's only been asked to pass protect, so I am not too worried about his run support. If he came here, I could definitely see LeBeau adapting (not changing, but adapting) his scheme to allow Asom to play a lot of man coverage. Stick him on an island and then just worry about the other 10 players. When we play team like the Patriots where LeBeau's scheme is completely exposed, switching to a man coverage with Asom on the other side would really lock down our defense.

[GBMelBlount]

Well put. If it weren't for Ike's hands there wouldn't be such a difference. However, Ike (who's speed rivals Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson, etc...) is faster than Nnamdi, so it's a matter of basic physics that Ike can cover the more speed receivers and chase down speedsters better than Nnamdi.

There is no doubt that Ike may be faster than Mnamdi in a sprint.

However sprint speed does not necessarily translate to game speed.

There are factors like reaction time, changing direction, balance, agility, instincts and athleticism that are not necessarily measurable by flat out sprint times but do affect game speed.

[SteelerFanInStl]

This is just more apology for CB's who only have half a game. Deion was the first (and worst).

I agree. It kills me when people talk about Deion being the best CB EVER.

[steeldawg]

I agree. It kills me when people talk about Deion being the best CB EVER.
Dion was the best CB ever, period. Purest shutdown corner to ever play, could take away half a field. As far as Ike is concerned this guy would be tops in the league if hhe could catch. The only reason he is left out of the discussion is his int totals, so unless you follow the steelers its hard to see all the little things he does for our defense.

[The Duke]

I only got to watch deion late in his career, but he always struck me as a weak guy with pretty good instincts. Have never seen anyone so unwilling to tackle, and suck at it when he actually did

Definitely not what I would call the best ever

[SteelerEmpire]

The best CB ever ? Dick LeBeau... :thumbsup:

[steelerdude15]

Well put. If it weren't for Ike's hands there wouldn't be such a difference. However, Ike (who's speed rivals Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson, etc...) is faster than Nnamdi, so it's a matter of basic physics that Ike can cover the more speed receivers and chase down speedsters better than Nnamdi.
I've heard that Ike is the fastest corner in the game, but I don't have a source.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Dion was the best CB ever, period. Purest shutdown corner to ever play, could take away half a field. As far as Ike is concerned this guy would be tops in the league if hhe could catch. The only reason he is left out of the discussion is his int totals, so unless you follow the steelers its hard to see all the little things he does for our defense.

B.S. Deion took ONE player out of the game. He didn't do crap against the run and he was a poor tackler. I watched him play his whole career. Woodson was a MUCH better all-around CB than Deion.

[steel striker]

I go with Ike because, we know what we have in Ike. Nothing against NA he is a very good player but, Ike has been pretty solid. I know what the blasted pack did to our defense in the sb. I hope we can play better against the pass this year. Now as far as Deon goes he could not tackle my two legged dog. Like mentioned above Rod Woodson was a better player than Deon hands down.

[Godfather]

B.S. Deion took ONE player out of the game. He didn't do crap against the run and he was a poor tackler. I watched him play his whole career. Woodson was a MUCH better all-around CB than Deion.

I assume you mean Rod, but Charles is also better than Deion.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I assume you mean Rod, but Charles is also better than Deion.

Yes, I mean Rod but Charles is also a very good CB who contributes in all aspects of the game.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I dont know why so many people are hammering Nnamdhi's tackling just because ONE guy said he isnt impressed. Ive seen Nnamdhi make phenomenal tackles, ive also seen Ike make complete whiffs. Id rather use my own eyes to judge. And Nnamdhi has as much game speed as anybody in the game at any position.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I dont know why so many people are hammering Nnamdhi's tackling just because ONE guy said he isnt impressed. Ive seen Nnamdhi make phenomenal tackles, ive also seen Ike make complete whiffs. Id rather use my own eyes to judge. And Nnamdhi has as much game speed as anybody in the game at any position.
Very true.

If the Steelers could pay one of them $8 million a year contract avg who would you choose? Taylor ur Asomuga?

[Count Steeler]

Very true.

If the Steelers could pay one of them $8 million a year contract avg who would you choose? Taylor ur Asomuga?

8 Million might be saying that it is better to turn to the young guns and let them play. Asomuga has a year on Taylor, so you may get 2-3 years before the wheels go flat. If Taylor would settle for less, I'd probably stick with him.

[HometownGal]

8 Million might be saying that it is better to turn to the young guns and let them play. Asomuga has a year on Taylor, so you may get 2-3 years before the wheels go flat. If Taylor would settle for less, I'd probably stick with him.

Me too carnoj. Good post. :thumbsup:

In addition, Ike is very familiar with the LeBeau system. I'm hoping a deal with Ike and the FO gets done very soon. :pray:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

8 Million might be saying that it is better to turn to the young guns and let them play. Asomuga has a year on Taylor, so you may get 2-3 years before the wheels go flat. If Taylor would settle for less, I'd probably stick with him.
That wasn't the question.

If you had to pick one or the other. Identical salary. Let's say it's low like $3mil. Who would you rather have? Taylor or Asomuga?

[Psycho Ward 86]

8 Million might be saying that it is better to turn to the young guns and let them play. Asomuga has a year on Taylor, so you may get 2-3 years before the wheels go flat. If Taylor would settle for less, I'd probably stick with him.

you're comparing durability based on a one year difference in age? Huh? Aso's been very healthy aside from the 2 games he missed last season with a sprained ankle. Aso > Ike... hands down.

I find it ironic that many of the people in this thread are making the arguement of Ike over Asomugha based on stats when this board has traditionally been the exact opposite, lessening the relevance of stats because they dont show the whole story. (im not talking about you carnoj lol, this is just a general point im making)

[The Duke]

I'd take Ike, who knows our system perfectly, over Asomugha, who while great may not pick up the system as good as Ike

Rather spend on the safe bet than break the bank for a player that's just a little better, and has to learn the system from scratch

just sayin

[HometownGal]

you're comparing durability based on a one year difference in age? Huh? Aso's been very healthy aside from the 2 games he missed last season with a sprained ankle. Aso > Ike... hands down.

I find it ironic that many of the people in this thread are making the arguement of Ike over Asomugha based on stats when this board has traditionally been the exact opposite, lessening the relevance of stats because they dont show the whole story. (im not talking about you carnoj lol, this is just a general point im making)

You know I'm definitely not a stats person due to my infamous line "stats schmats". My reason for wanting to hold onto Ike is based on him knowing, understanding and performing well under Dick LeBeau's system, as well as my belief that he is underrated at his position. His only downfall, as has been noted, is his stone mitts but the way I look at it is that he covers a lot of the creme de la creme of receivers in the NFL and covers them extremely well. Though I don't really know what Ike is expecting as far as a raise goes, I still think he will come in under Aso's asking price and to be quite honest, I don't see Aso coming here. :noidea:

[Nadroj 20]

I for one don't agree with the "knows the system better" argument...Aso could come in and learn the system just like anyone else could. They are professional athletes.

I would take Ike simply because I like him better and I'm used to him. He covers very well and has always been a solid player for the Steelers and I do not think Aso is that much better then him so since there wouldnt be a huge improvement..stick with Ike. I just don't like the knows the system better argument, I mean i get it to a point sure but overall that isn't what would effect my choice.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Steelers play off man coverage more, where the Raiders play more man coverage. I think its easier to play off man and Asomuga would be a huge upgrade from Ike in this system....but its not gonna happen.

Tell me the last time the Steelers picked up the top free agent in a premium position like CB, LT, QB, WR????? I could be wrong, but think it was NEVER.

[Count Steeler]

That wasn't the question.

If you had to pick one or the other. Identical salary. Let's say it's low like $3mil. Who would you rather have? Taylor or Asomuga?

For 3 Mil each I would take both. But that is not your point. My heart would stick with Ike, loyalty as the main reason and a certain level of comfort, knowing what we already have. And at 3 Mil, if the wheels go flat in 2-3 years, it would not be a huge cap hit.

BTW, Aso is 1 year younger than Ike.

[HometownGal]

I for one don't agree with the "knows the system better" argument...Aso could come in and learn the system just like anyone else could. They are professional athletes.



We'll have to agree to disagree here carnoj. How many "professional athletes" over the years have gone to a team(s) and have had tremendous difficulty learning the playbook and/or "getting" the system? John Marshall (since given the hook in Oakland) sure as hell wasn't no Dick LeBeau as a DC and how are you sure Aso could just step right on in? Ike fits the mold extremely well and does what is asked of him - and as I said - is very underrated at his position imho.

Why fix what's not broken?

[Count Steeler]

you're comparing durability based on a one year difference in age? Huh? Aso's been very healthy aside from the 2 games he missed last season with a sprained ankle. Aso > Ike... hands down.



When you get over 30 in the NFL, every year counts. The way the game has changed to a more air centric game, CB speed and quickness are big factors in defending the pass. If Ike falls off the table at 33 or 34, then we would still have a couple of years of an $8 Million contract going to waste. Assuming a 5 year deal. Maybe he can be converted to Safety, but that is a big if.

[Psycho Ward 86]

BTW, Aso is 1 year younger than Ike.

That is such a weak arguement really. 30 hardly means death for every position but RB.

[Count Steeler]

That is such a weak arguement really. 30 hardly means death for every position but RB.

Not just looking to this year. If we are talking about a 5 year deal (or longer), the likelihood of Ike going down before Aso is real. At 8 Mil or even more, that is a big gamble to take. You got to be a special athlete to still be effective on the corner at 35 years old. That is why I am not opposed to rolling the dice with the young guns, if the price tag and the contract terms are not reasonable.

[Count Steeler]

We'll have to agree to disagree here Nadroj 20. How many "professional athletes" over the years have gone to a team(s) and have had tremendous difficulty learning the playbook and/or "getting" the system? John Marshall (since given the hook in Oakland) sure as hell wasn't no Dick LeBeau as a DC and how are you sure Aso could just step right on in? Ike fits the mold extremely well and does what is asked of him - and as I said - is very underrated at his position imho.

Why fix what's not broken?

Fixed that for you HTG. We are in agreement, as far as I can tell, on this issue.

[Nadroj 20]

We'll have to agree to disagree here carnoj. How many "professional athletes" over the years have gone to a team(s) and have had tremendous difficulty learning the playbook and/or "getting" the system? John Marshall (since given the hook in Oakland) sure as hell wasn't no Dick LeBeau as a DC and how are you sure Aso could just step right on in? Ike fits the mold extremely well and does what is asked of him - and as I said - is very underrated at his position imho.

Why fix what's not broken?

I'm not arguing against Ike so im not trying to fix whats not broken

I just do not think its a valid reason for not wanting someone. Your other reasons for wanting Ike is cool, I agree with. I'm just saying I would never give the reason of, he doesn't know the system as well, to argue not wanting someone.

[suitanim]

Head-to-head, I take Ike.

I still think we need to sign Ike AND another guy like Rodgers...

[Psycho Ward 86]

I am not opposed to rolling the dice with the young guns, if the price tag and the contract terms are not reasonable.

Ike is hardly a young gun at 29, that one year of difference hardly means anything

[Count Steeler]

Ike is hardly a young gun at 29, that one year of difference hardly means anything

Can't seem to have a meeting of the minds Psycho Ward. By the young guns, I mean the draft picks of last year and this year. Taylor is definitely not a young gun. I'm not willing to see the Steelers pay out a huge payday to Ike, especially in a 5 year deal. Only way I would agree is if they pay him 8,8,8,3,3. The last 2 years of a 5 year deal at this age and at this position are very risky.

[HometownGal]

I'm not arguing against Ike so im not trying to fix whats not broken

I just do not think its a valid reason for not wanting someone. Your other reasons for wanting Ike is cool, I agree with. I'm just saying I would never give the reason of, he doesn't know the system as well, to argue not wanting someone.

carnoj, Nadroj, handjob, Shiskabob - it all looks alike after awhile. :lol: ;) :hug:

I stand by my reasons and Ike being acclamated to Papa LeBeau's complex system wasn't the only reason I gave as you so noted, so no need to discuss it further.

KEEP IKE!

[Count Steeler]

carnoj, Nadroj, handjob, Shiskabob - it all looks alike after awhile. :lol: ;) :hug:



:rofl2:

[Craic]

carnoj, Nadroj, handjob, Shiskabob - it all looks alike after awhile. :lol: ;) :hug:

I stand by my reasons and Ike being acclamated to Papa LeBeau's complex system wasn't the only reason I gave as you so noted, so no need to discuss it further.

KEEP IKE!
I stand by what I posted in the other thread about ya... A bad, bad woman! :chuckle: You are hilarious.

As far as the complex system and Asom. I agree that it is complex. But my suspicion is that if Asom was brought in, he'd be given a simple assignment. Something along the lines of, "Hey, (Insert receiver here) you're going to be on an island with (insert name here). Don't worry about anything else, we'll scheme to take care of it."

I know everyone talks about LeBeau's schemes. But what we forget, is that he flexes and outright changes his schemes to match the talents of his players too. That is why, when our defense starts getting burnt through the air, a year or two later all of a sudden then are shutting teams down again. Because LeBeau fixes it.

My worry, would be how long Asom can keep up with the tier 1 or 1.5 receivers. If he ever did come here, I don't see it being for more than 3 years, with the contract front loaded and an easy escape close if he loses speed. Then again, if he loses a bit of speed, maybe he's the backup safety we're looking for as well. I wouldn't break the bank for him by any means. Much rather have our own vets back. But if the the opportunity presented itself? I'd jump at it. It would only help us.

[Psycho Ward 86]

My worry, would be how long Asom can keep up with the tier 1 or 1.5 receivers. If he ever did come here, I don't see it being for more than 3 years, with the contract front loaded and an easy escape close if he loses speed. Then again, if he loses a bit of speed, maybe he's the backup safety we're looking for as well. I wouldn't break the bank for him by any means. Much rather have our own vets back. But if the the opportunity presented itself? I'd jump at it. It would only help us.

If he stays healthy we definitely know he can! He's already made Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald look like jokes!

[SteelerFanInStl]

Can't seem to have a meeting of the minds Psycho Ward. By the young guns, I mean the draft picks of last year and this year. Taylor is definitely not a young gun. I'm not willing to see the Steelers pay out a huge payday to Ike, especially in a 5 year deal. Only way I would agree is if they pay him 8,8,8,3,3. The last 2 years of a 5 year deal at this age and at this position are very risky.

The problem with that sentiment is that our young guns haven't shown that they're capable of anything yet. I don't see any of them being able to step into a major role this year.

[Craic]

The problem with that sentiment is that our young guns haven't shown that they're capable of anything yet. I don't see any of them being able to step into a major role this year.

Sanders showed he could step up REAL big last year. How many games did we see last minute, 3rd and 4th down catches for 1st downs in the stretch and playoffs? How many games did we win like that? For first years, they absolutely showed they are capable of winning games. The question is, can they sustain it?

[steeldawg]

Sanders showed he could step up REAL big last year. How many games did we see last minute, 3rd and 4th down catches for 1st downs in the stretch and playoffs? How many games did we win like that? For first years, they absolutely showed they are capable of winning games. The question is, can they sustain it?

I think he was talking about our young DB's.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I think he was talking about our young DB's.

Yes. We're not talking WRs here, just DBs.

[86WARD]

Taylor is not better than Asomugha. He does however know how to play in the Steelers defense and that makes him valuable to the Steelers.

[Nadroj 20]

carnoj, Nadroj, handjob, Shiskabob - it all looks alike after awhile. :lol: ;) :hug:

I stand by my reasons and Ike being acclamated to Papa LeBeau's complex system wasn't the only reason I gave as you so noted, so no need to discuss it further.

KEEP IKE!

:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

ok :thumbsup: like I said I like Ike and want him, I was just thrown by that one part.

[Craic]

Yes. We're not talking WRs here, just DBs.

Ah, my bad. I was confused because of the phrase, "young guns." All we have as DB's that are young are pea shooters.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Ah, my bad. I was confused because of the phrase, "young guns." All we have as DB's that are young are pea shooters.

LOL, a fitting nickname. I gotta say that I've been severely disappointed in Keenan Lewis. I was excited when we drafted him.

[Austin87]

Ike Taylor is 31 years old and in CB time that is pretty old. The good thing is that Ike hasn't been slowing down yet. Say we give Ike a big 4-year contract, two years in he will be 33 years old and by then he might be slowing down some. Giving Ike the contract he deserves is gonna be risky.

To be honest I'll take Asomugha over Ike any day of the week. Aso is a year younger that Ike and unfortunately twice the CB Ike is. We have Polamalu, Woodley, and Timmons to sign in the near future and I'm afraid if we give Ike a big contract that one of those guys might miss out.

[Count Steeler]

Ah, my bad. I was confused because of the phrase, "young guns." All we have as DB's that are young are pea shooters.

I can't believe that all 5 or 6 CB that we drafted in the last 2 years are going to flop. If they do, that is a major disappointment. I'm hoping 1 or 2 of them wake up one morning, realize how blessed they are, and get their games rolling.

[86WARD]

Problem with Aso is once you put him in the Steelers offense, all the strengths that he has are diminished. Ike's a good corner, not great and he knows the Steelers D. What should be discussed here instead of Ike vs. Aso is finding someone to compliment Ike and finding a nickel back. In today's NFL, you NEED three starting corners on your team. Teams are attempting 40 passes a game. That's a lot of 3, 4, 5 receiver sets. Teams need 3 starting CBs and the Steelers only have one...maybe...in Ike.

If you want to compare Ike vs. Aso as a CB alone, it's easily Asomugha. But if you want to compare who is the better fit in the Steelers D...it's Ike.

[Nadroj 20]

Problem with Aso is once you put him in the Steelers offense, all the strengths that he has are diminished. Ike's a good corner, not great and he knows the Steelers D. What should be discussed here instead of Ike vs. Aso is finding someone to compliment Ike and finding a nickel back. In today's NFL, you NEED three starting corners on your team. Teams are attempting 40 passes a game. That's a lot of 3, 4, 5 receiver sets. Teams need 3 starting CBs and the Steelers only have one...maybe...in Ike.

If you want to compare Ike vs. Aso as a CB alone, it's easily Asomugha. But if you want to compare who is the better fit in the Steelers D...it's Ike.

To be fair, we only know that since Ike is the only one to play in the steelers D.

[Craic]

LOL, a fitting nickname. I gotta say that I've been severely disappointed in Keenan Lewis. I was excited when we drafted him.

He did play well in preseason last year, but he had too many mental breakdowns when it came to his temper. If he gets that under control, he just may make it yet.