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View Full Version : Players that transcend "Era".



LLT
06-14-2010, 01:51 PM
It is next to impossible to compare players in any sport to players of different eras. How does the skill set of a Bart Starr compare to that of Brett Farve? Could Babe Ruth play in the more athletic modern era? Would Dr. J be more than a 6th man on some of the modern championship teams?


I do believe that you can look at certain criteria to judge a player's contribution to his team and to the sport as it relates to his time period: 1) Championships- How many did a player win. But even then we need to think in regards to if that player won them because of the team or did the team win them because of the man. 2) Personal Awards- MVP...Pro-Bowls...All-Star Team....etc. 3) Records- I mean, Johnny Unitas threw TD passes in 47 consecutive games!!!! An incredible achievement for any era, but mind blowing when you consider it happened when teams predominantly ran the ball. Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 points in one game!!! Seriously...How do you quantify that? 4) Personal Stats...FG %...passer rating...batting average. 5) Clutch game performance- Some people are just "players" and heart can not be measured by anything short of this.


Taking all that into consideration we do, in fact have to consider... Era differential....Rule changes....Updates in training methods and in training equipment. All these things have created, not only changes in the game but changes in the physiology of the players themselves.

But beyond a doubt there are players who transcend "era". There are players that, if it were possible, could be picked out of the era in which they played would excell in the modern sport. I will give you three players and why they transcend the "era" argument.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Kareem scored more points than any other player in NBA history with 38,387 points. He won six NBA championships and was the recipient of a record six MVP Awards. He also had two Finals MVP awards, fifteen NBA First or Second Teams, a record nineteen NBA All-Star invitations. He averaged 24.6 points, 11.2 rebounds, 3.6 assists and 2.6 blocks per game.
Kareem was an unstoppable low-post threat who had an ambidextrous skyhook that was and still would be next to impossible to stop.

Willie Mays: Best "all around player" to ever play the game. The "Say Hey Kid" won two MVP awards and had 24 All-Star Game appearances . He ended his career with 660 career home runs, which is currently fourth all-time. In 1999, he was also elected to the Major League Baseball All-Century Team. Mays is the only Major League player to have hit a home run in every inning from the 1st through the 16th. He finished his career with a record 22 extra-inning home runs. Mays is one of five NL players to have eight consecutive 100-RBI seasons. Usually regarded for his hitting ability, Mays won 12 golden gloves and was among the best centerfielders in history. His over-the-shoulder catch on Vic Wertz's 450-foot drive in Game 1 of the 1954 World Series was the most famous and spectacular defensive play of his illustrious career. Mays won his first Gold Glove at age 26 and his final one at age 38, making him the oldest outfielder ever to win a Gold Glove.

Jack Lambert: Selected in the second round of the 1974 NFL Draft, Lambert was thought to be too small to play linebacker in the NFL. At 6'4" and a wiry 220 pounds he had incredibly quick feet and was known for the hard hits he inflicted on ballcarriers. Extemely instinctual and able to read offenses instantly he went on to earn the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year Award as a central figure on a great Steeler defense that went on to win their first Super Bowl by beating the Minnesota Vikings 16-6 in Super Bowl IX.
Lambert went on to win 4 more Super Bowls, 6 AFC title games, was a two-time NFL Defensive Player of Year, made the All-Pro team eight times and appeared in nine straight Pro Bowls. He averaged 146 tackles per season for the first 10 years that he played the game.


These three players played beyond any persons ability to pidgeon-hole them into the specific era in which they played. If they played today, the evolution of training methods and equipment would have only produced players even more dominating then they were in the 50's...60's...and 70's.

Make no mistake about it, had any of these players been born later and were playing the game right now.... we would STILL be calling them... All-star....All-pro...and MVP.


Heart transcends any time period.


-LLT

ALLD
06-14-2010, 03:58 PM
Farvebow.

LLT
06-14-2010, 04:11 PM
Farvebow.

Farvebow? :nono:

Lambertbow? :yup:

Hindes204
06-14-2010, 04:16 PM
When I first started reading your post, Lambert kept coming to mind. Then, in the middle you named him specifically.....I agree with that one 100%

LLT
06-14-2010, 04:19 PM
When I first started reading your post, Lambert kept coming to mind. Then, in the middle you named him specifically.....I agree with that one 100%

Can you imagine him rocked up with about 30 more pounds of muscle? He might have killed a man!!!!

solardave
06-14-2010, 05:24 PM
When I first started reading your post, Lambert kept coming to mind. Then, in the middle you named him specifically.....I agree with that one 100%

One bad man!!!

Hindes204
06-14-2010, 05:34 PM
Can you imagine him rocked up with about 30 more pounds of muscle? He would have killed a man!!!!

Fixed it for ya

that guy was a mixture of pure raw talent, unrivaled toughness, and an on field mean streak like no other. 6'4, 220 pounds of imgonnaf**ckyouup. Can you imaging being a qb and looking across the line at that toothless manic foaming from the mouth. Elway said it best with his quote about him. What an amazing player that guy was

LLT
06-14-2010, 05:43 PM
Fixed it for ya

that guy was a mixture of pure raw talent, unrivaled toughness, and an on field mean streak like no other. 6'4, 220 pounds of imgonnaf**ckyouup. Can you imaging being a qb and looking across the line at that toothless manic foaming from the mouth. Elway said it best with his quote about him. What an amazing player that guy was

One of a kind.

146 tackles a year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have always thought it amusing that the player given the nickname "mean" on that team wasnt the meanest SOB in that defensive huddle!!!!

Devilsdancefloor
06-14-2010, 05:46 PM
My favorite lambert quote:
"Dreith said I hit Sipe too hard. I hit him as hard as I could. Brian has a chance to go out of bounds and he decides not to. He knows I'm going to hit him. And I do. History."
- Jack Lambert, after referee Ben Dreith ejected him from a game for knocking out Browns QB Brian Sipe.


He was a bad mofo and only would have been better today with all these guys have today to train with.

Psycho Ward 86
06-14-2010, 05:46 PM
That 146 tackles per year statistic is unreal....what's the highest of all time?

LLT
06-14-2010, 06:03 PM
That 146 tackles per year statistic is unreal....what's the highest of all time?

Believe it or not...the NFL doesnt count tackles as a statistic. I do know that Darren Woodson of the Cowboys had over 1,300 tackles in his career but not sure about average per season.

Prok
06-14-2010, 06:17 PM
I was 6 yrs old when we drafted Lambert. One of my fondest memories of him was the last SB vs the Rams when i think he got the INT that sealed it. Even in the early 80's he made a huge impression on me. Man i don't believe we'll ever see a guy that works so hard at his craft than Lambert did. His hustle was un-matched IMO.

There are 2 players not that old that i'd LOVE to see in their prime this decade. Danny Marino and John Elway. IMO the game is to the point that these 2 would be competing for the SB every year the next ten years.

SMR
06-14-2010, 06:20 PM
LAMBERT WAS THE BEST. PERIOD.

BlastFurnace
06-14-2010, 06:20 PM
That 146 tackles per year statistic is unreal....what's the highest of all time?

The unofficial season record, recognized by the league, is 214 tackles by Hardy Nickerson, LB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1993.

LLT
06-14-2010, 06:30 PM
The unofficial season record, recognized by the league, is 214 tackles by Hardy Nickerson, LB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1993.

I have seen the same thing...but also have read where Eugene Lockhart of the Cowboys had 222 tackles in 1989.

SMR
06-14-2010, 06:51 PM
http://i49.tinypic.com/sndu1s.jpg

steelpride12
06-14-2010, 07:49 PM
That 146 tackles per year statistic is unreal....what's the highest of all time?
I agree! That stat is almost unbelievable to be honest just shows the freak he was!

zulater
06-15-2010, 03:39 AM
Franco Harris and John Stallworth would have been great in any era.

solardave
06-15-2010, 05:54 AM
The unofficial season record, recognized by the league, is 214 tackles by Hardy Nickerson, LB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1993.

And where did Nickerson play before TB? Anyone........Bueler?

Hindes204
06-15-2010, 08:59 AM
And where did Nickerson play before TB? Anyone........Bueler?


A lot of people forget he played for the Steelers, I guess because the prime of his career was with Tampa

Psycho Ward 86
06-15-2010, 10:50 AM
The unofficial season record, recognized by the league, is 214 tackles by Hardy Nickerson, LB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1993.

I have seen the same thing...but also have read where Eugene Lockhart of the Cowboys had 222 tackles in 1989.

Omfg, insanity! But i was referring to what's the highest tackles per season for a career in NFL history

BigNastyDefense
06-15-2010, 11:13 AM
Jack Lambert, IMHO, is the best MLB/ILB of all time.

fansince'76
06-15-2010, 11:20 AM
I'd add Wilt Chamberlain and Jim Brown as two players who would be all-stars in their respective sports if they played nowadays.

SteelMember
06-15-2010, 11:50 AM
Nice idea and piece, LLT.

Just as good, if not better than most of the stuff out there that people are getting paid for. With a little refining, and rounding out with a couple other sports, this could really be great.

You need get yourself on the editorial page. I think you definately have the skills.

Good job, brother!! :drink:

Prok
06-15-2010, 12:22 PM
I'd add Wilt Chamberlain and Jim Brown as two players who would be all-stars in their respective sports if they played nowadays.

Strikeeeeeeee !! Even if it's true, please refer to your Steelers fan handbook. I believe it's even in the first chapter:


Thou shalt NEVER give a cleve clownie proper respect as thou would other players.*

*Proper respect towards cleve clownies would be worst insult imagineable.

No need to thank me as i'm sure sometime soon after you typed that you realized the error of your ways.

:lol: :clap2:

LLT
06-15-2010, 01:19 PM
Omfg, insanity! But i was referring to what's the highest tackles per season for a career in NFL history

Maybe with a little research I might be able to find that...but with the NFl not tracking that stat. you are still going to find some discrepancies based on team records.

LLT
06-15-2010, 01:23 PM
Nice idea and piece, LLT.

Just as good, if not better than most of the stuff out there that people are getting paid for. With a little refining, and rounding out with a couple other sports, this could really be great.

You need get yourself on the editorial page. I think you definately have the skills.

Good job, brother!! :drink:

Maybe one of these days I will be as good as Tim Lumber!!!!!

SteelMember
06-15-2010, 01:38 PM
Maybe one of these days I will be as good as Tim Lumber!!!!!

Dare to dream. :lol: The single most greatest writer of all time!!!!!!!!!!!

SMR
06-15-2010, 04:03 PM
Dare to dream. :lol: The single most greatest writer of all time!!!!!!!!!!! :lol::clap2:

Indo
06-15-2010, 04:03 PM
Absolutely agree that Lambert was the Greatest MLB ever

I would submit that Troy could transcend eras


Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux


and (a Moment of Silence, please) I truly believe that Roberto Clemente would have been one of the best ever if not THE Best Ever (they didn't call him "The Great One" for nothing)

LLT
06-15-2010, 04:05 PM
Absolutely agree that Lambert was the Greatest MLB ever

I would submit that Troy could transcend eras


Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux


and (a Moment of Silence, please) I truly believe that Roberto Clemente would have been one of the best ever if not THE Best Ever (they didn't call him "The Great One" for nothing)

I was a HUGE Clemente fan...!!!!

SMR
06-15-2010, 04:06 PM
Absolutely agree that Lambert was the Greatest MLB ever

I would submit that Troy could transcend eras


Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux


and (a Moment of Silence, please) I truly believe that Roberto Clemente would have been one of the best ever if not THE Best Ever (they didn't call him "The Great One" for nothing)

Nice post buddy. I do think Troy would be on the list.

Indo
06-15-2010, 04:10 PM
I was a HUGE Clemente fan...!!!!

Me too.

I have his autograph...one of my most prized possessions

SMR
06-15-2010, 04:13 PM
Me too.

I have his autograph...one of my most prized possessions

Sweeeet! How did you come across it?

Indo
06-15-2010, 04:30 PM
Sweeeet! How did you come across it?

I was young at the time, but very much a fan of the Pirates and Steelers (there are home videos of myself and my cousin swinging wiffle ball bats when we were around 2 years old!) and my grandfather was working at Chatam (spelling?) Center, where Clemente was apparently living at the time (early '70s).

He (my grandfather) got Clemente to sign autographs for me and my cousin...we were just kids at the time, but somehow I still knew what it meant. I'll never forget hearing about his death...even as young as I was (6 or 7)




http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0706/gallery.mlb.3000.hit.club/images/clemente%282%29.jpg

SMR
06-15-2010, 05:16 PM
I was young at the time, but very much a fan of the Pirates and Steelers (there are home videos of myself and my cousin swinging wiffle ball bats when we were around 2 years old!) and my grandfather was working at Chatam (spelling?) Center, where Clemente was apparently living at the time (early '70s).

He (my grandfather) got Clemente to sign autographs for me and my cousin...we were just kids at the time, but somehow I still knew what it meant. I'll never forget hearing about his death...even as young as I was (6 or 7)




http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0706/gallery.mlb.3000.hit.club/images/clemente%282%29.jpg

Wow, and that is a great pic of the Great one! I just have to add that I know Clemente was from Puerto Rico and I have family from Fajardo, Puerto Rico. I've been to PR twice so far and have seen soooo many fans of Clemente still showing their pride of him! Fantastic.