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View Full Version : Defensive Backs Abundant In Free Agent Market



Steel Hurtin
02-12-2011, 02:57 PM
Everyone who follows the Pittsburgh Steelers knows that the weak link in their storied defense is the secondary unit, despite it being led by the best safety in football and reigning Defensive Player Of The Year, Troy Polamlau.

Ryan Clark, while aging and found out of position a good deal, is one of the few safeties in the NFL that can handle playing opposite of the wild card, his grasp of the complicated Dick LeBeau 3-4 scheme is unparalleled, and he’s a great locker room presence.

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steelreserve
02-12-2011, 08:03 PM
Wouldn't really say Clark is "one of the few safeties" that fits our scheme opposite Troy. One need only look as far as Tyrone Carter to see that there are a ton of people who could fill in adequately. The key would be finding someone BETTER than Clark at a reasonable price, which I don't know is realistic. My opinion of Clark definitely fell over the past year and a half or so; he spend a lot more time chasing guys from behind than making big hits, instead of the other way around.

Steel Hurtin
02-12-2011, 08:38 PM
There's a lot of safeties out there that won't grasp the scheme though, which is more what I was pointing towards, might not have said it well, but with Polamalu freelancing you've got to have one that will not only be able to adjust, but be able to adjust within the scheme, while still allowing Polamalu to not only freelance, but also cover his zone. So, basically, we'd need someone who would be comfortable enough with Troy (which would take time, no doubt) to not worry about having to cover the entire deep portion of the field.

So, in my opinion the IDEAL situation would be to grab one of the corners on the list AND Champ Bailey, with Bailey moving to safety, where he could be absolutely ridiculous.

Chidi29
02-12-2011, 08:43 PM
I'll pass on all of them.

steelreserve
02-12-2011, 10:06 PM
Only one on that list I'm really interested is Nnamdi ... but really, how in the hell is that going to happen.

He might not command $15M from anyone except Crazy Al, but I'm willing to bet he'll at least be in the $10M range, which still means impossible, unless the new CBA comes out with some crazy loopholes that we could take advantage of.

Steel Hurtin
02-12-2011, 11:04 PM
No interest in taking a page out of the Patriots book and 'renting' Champ Bailey for a year or two? Automatic upgrade to the secondary. Could be plugged in at corner, or move to safety to replace Clark, should we snag a starting caliber corner in the first few rounds.

Chidi29
02-12-2011, 11:10 PM
No interest in taking a page out of the Patriots book and 'renting' Champ Bailey for a year or two? Automatic upgrade to the secondary. Could be plugged in at corner, or move to safety to replace Clark, should we snag a starting caliber corner in the first few rounds.

Bailey is going to be looking for a rental. He wants that last big pay day.

Craic
02-13-2011, 12:52 AM
I'd take Nnamdi Asomugha at a price that wouldn't break our bank (though we wouldn't get him at that price). He's 29, still has some football left in him, and would be an instant upgrade over ANY of our CB's for coverage. Stick him on the other side of Ike, Let him play on an island, and then Let the rest of your DB's focus on the other players. I doubt there is a third receiver that could consistently play against McFadden, or a fourth receiver and Gay. So that is an instant and big upgrade. Heck, we could slip into some man coverages and stop this 10, 15 yard march down the field in the fourth quarter crap.

Of course, it'd never happen. I'd sure like it to though.

steelreserve
02-13-2011, 04:25 AM
I'd take Nnamdi Asomugha at a price that wouldn't break our bank (though we wouldn't get him at that price). He's 29, still has some football left in him, and would be an instant upgrade over ANY of our CB's for coverage. Stick him on the other side of Ike, Let him play on an island, and then Let the rest of your DB's focus on the other players. I doubt there is a third receiver that could consistently play against McFadden, or a fourth receiver and Gay. So that is an instant and big upgrade. Heck, we could slip into some man coverages and stop this 10, 15 yard march down the field in the fourth quarter crap.

Of course, it'd never happen. I'd sure like it to though.

How about this just for theoretical purposes: Farrior ($3.8M), Reed ($2.8M), ARE ($1.7M), Moore ($1.9M), and Batch ($900K) in exchange for Asomugha for $11.1M.

Think about it ... really, Farrior is the only guy in that bunch who isn't off the team already or super-expendable and likely headed out the door anyway. We already have replacements under contract for all of them. So basically, the trade-off becomes Farrior for Asomugha, and we let the new draft class take over some backup roles. All else being equal, I'd take that in a second. Yeah, I know -- we'd still have to do things like re-sign Taylor and Woodley; but this doesn't take into account a lot of other possibilities like Smith leaving or renegotiating, Spaeth being cut, Sweed either taking someone's spot or being cut (either of which saves us $1M-plus), whatever happens to Fox and Hoke, and whatever happens with the new salary cap.

I don't think we'd do anything to stupidly cripple the team, but just saying, we probably have up to $20M in cap room coming free this year and most years, and it's up to us how to spend it. I wouldn't normally advocate going after a marquee guy like that, but since we already have all the other pieces in place...

NCSteeler
02-13-2011, 07:54 AM
I wouldn't trade farrior for Namdi. I would take a shot at carlos , I have always liked his play and he is very much Ike. I know no INTs but If i could get that kind of passes defensed production out of two corners, that would rack up the sack numbers and underneath picks by the LBers. I think his price tag would be reasonable too.

SMR
02-13-2011, 09:20 AM
I'd take Nnamdi Asomugha at a price that wouldn't break our bank (though we wouldn't get him at that price). He's 29, still has some football left in him, and would be an instant upgrade over ANY of our CB's for coverage. Stick him on the other side of Ike, Let him play on an island, and then Let the rest of your DB's focus on the other players. I doubt there is a third receiver that could consistently play against McFadden, or a fourth receiver and Gay. So that is an instant and big upgrade. Heck, we could slip into some man coverages and stop this 10, 15 yard march down the field in the fourth quarter crap.

Of course, it'd never happen. I'd sure like it to though.

I like yer thinkin' pal.

Chidi29
02-13-2011, 09:36 AM
I'd take Nnamdi Asomugha at a price that wouldn't break our bank (though we wouldn't get him at that price). He's 29, still has some football left in him, and would be an instant upgrade over ANY of our CB's for coverage. Stick him on the other side of Ike, Let him play on an island, and then Let the rest of your DB's focus on the other players. I doubt there is a third receiver that could consistently play against McFadden, or a fourth receiver and Gay. So that is an instant and big upgrade. Heck, we could slip into some man coverages and stop this 10, 15 yard march down the field in the fourth quarter crap.

Of course, it'd never happen. I'd sure like it to though.

You said it yourself. Not going to happen.

Wouldn't want it anyway. Even by adding more man coverage, it's still a zone scheme. I'm not shelling out big money for a guy whose talents wouldn't best be ultilized.

Texasteel
02-13-2011, 10:50 AM
The last big DB signing we had was Clark, and when we got him almost everyone was saying. " Why did we sign him?" We will build as we always have, through the draft. If we sign a FA it will be a lesser name that we think can play in our scheme, like Clark.

Craic
02-13-2011, 11:58 AM
You said it yourself. Not going to happen.

Wouldn't want it anyway. Even by adding more man coverage, it's still a zone scheme. I'm not shelling out big money for a guy whose talents wouldn't best be ultilized.

The point is, if we get him, we don't have to stay within a zone scheme- we can move to a man scheme on third downs and against teams who prefer to spread our defense out- which gives out defense a depth it never had.

Everyone complains about the cover-2, but by doing this, we can play a hybrid man-cover 2 defense as well, allowing both Troy and Clark to ballhawk. Timmons has the speed to cover TE's, and the size to take em down, heck, he has the speed to cover the slot receiver, unless it is a go route, which, will then put the receiver in the safeties zone.

I agree, it will never happen, but there is more upside to it if it did than people think, IMO.

Chidi29
02-13-2011, 01:13 PM
The point is, if we get him, we don't have to stay within a zone scheme- we can move to a man scheme on third downs and against teams who prefer to spread our defense out- which gives out defense a depth it never had.

Everyone complains about the cover-2, but by doing this, we can play a hybrid man-cover 2 defense as well, allowing both Troy and Clark to ballhawk. Timmons has the speed to cover TE's, and the size to take em down, heck, he has the speed to cover the slot receiver, unless it is a go route, which, will then put the receiver in the safeties zone.

I agree, it will never happen, but there is more upside to it if it did than people think, IMO.

I hear what you're saying, but even going to man on 3rd downs doesn't justify the cost of what it would take to get a guy like him. It would have to be a majority man scheme like what Oakland ran/runs.

And if we do get him, who do you get rid of? Don't see how we're going to re-sign Ike, Woodley, and Colon with Aso's contract. Plus contracts of the future (Timmons, Mendenhall).

steelreserve
02-14-2011, 01:15 AM
I hear what you're saying, but even going to man on 3rd downs doesn't justify the cost of what it would take to get a guy like him. It would have to be a majority man scheme like what Oakland ran/runs.

And if we do get him, who do you get rid of? Don't see how we're going to re-sign Ike, Woodley, and Colon with Aso's contract. Plus contracts of the future (Timmons, Mendenhall).

Any smart coach will be able to take advantage of a player like that easily. The arguments that "he wouldn't fit our defense" or "he'd only help in a couple of situations" is total rubbish. If you have super-talented guys at a given position, you design schemes that leverage that. The current scheme is designed to cover up weaknesses in the secondary, so I don't doubt that with somebody competent back there alongside Ike, we'd rework it to our significant advantage.

I already showed how it's possible to do money-wise. We have close to $20M coming off the books in any given year. We could basically do it with a Farrior-for-Nnamdi trade. Colon we'll either be able to RFA again, and if not, he's a so-so RT coming off a severe injury. We either get him back for less than you fear, or if he walks, then oh well. We made it to the Super Bowl without him.

Timmons and Mendenhall's contracts are nothing to worry about. They'll be taken care of by McFadden's expiring contract, Ward's expiring contract, and A. Smith's expiring contract. More important thing to worry about is replacing those three -- though for all except McFadden, it looks like we already have, and this deal would take care of the CB position anyway.

solardave
02-14-2011, 01:38 AM
The last big DB signing we had was Clark, and when we got him almost everyone was saying. " Why did we sign him?" We will build as we always have, through the draft. If we sign a FA it will be a lesser name that we think can play in our scheme, like Clark.

I agree. We will find a sleeper who can learn DL's defense. After saying that if Butler isn't progressing we need to draft someone else as well as O-line.

Chidi29
02-14-2011, 03:33 PM
Any smart coach will be able to take advantage of a player like that easily. The arguments that "he wouldn't fit our defense" or "he'd only help in a couple of situations" is total rubbish. If you have super-talented guys at a given position, you design schemes that leverage that. The current scheme is designed to cover up weaknesses in the secondary, so I don't doubt that with somebody competent back there alongside Ike, we'd rework it to our significant advantage.

I already showed how it's possible to do money-wise. We have close to $20M coming off the books in any given year. We could basically do it with a Farrior-for-Nnamdi trade. Colon we'll either be able to RFA again, and if not, he's a so-so RT coming off a severe injury. We either get him back for less than you fear, or if he walks, then oh well. We made it to the Super Bowl without him.

Timmons and Mendenhall's contracts are nothing to worry about. They'll be taken care of by McFadden's expiring contract, Ward's expiring contract, and A. Smith's expiring contract. More important thing to worry about is replacing those three -- though for all except McFadden, it looks like we already have, and this deal would take care of the CB position anyway.

Perhaps it's just a difference in philosophy, but I've always preferred creating a scheme that looks good on paper and finding players that fit in that scheme than going out and just trying to get the best at that position. Because it's tough to have top guys at a position for a long time, especially when you're talking multiple players like CB, if you're scheme is built on great players and then you go through a dry spell, you're in even worse trouble.

I'd like to at least see how this scheme can adapt to adjustments we're seeing on offense rather than making major changes to the scheme itself.

Of course, you're going to need to replace Farrior. Or replace Timmons who would be replacing Farrior. And those other contracts you speak of don't expire this year. They'll still be on the books for at least another year.