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stillers4me
01-22-2011, 07:04 AM
Bruce Arians is one hell of an offensive coordinator.

Now that I have your attention, let me back up that statement. No, wait. Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger wants to do it. He's aware of the ridiculous anti-Arians sentiment around town. He can't understand it, either.

"He gets way, way too much blame and criticism," Roethlisberger told the national media this week. "It's kind of unfortunate because he's so good. If you ask the players, we know. If you ask someone that knows the game of football, you'll know how good he is and what he's done for the offense and what he brings."

In the interest of full disclosure, Roethlisberger has more than a player-coach relationship with Arians. He described him as "a father figure," which made Arians laugh. "I'd rather him say I'm the favorite uncle he likes to drink with." The two are close. You might have heard something in March about Roethlisberger owning a place in Georgia. Arians has one nearby. They play golf often.............

read more @ http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11022/1119967-66.stm

tube517
01-22-2011, 07:44 AM
You might have heard something in March about Roethlisberger owning a place in Georgia. Arians has one nearby. They play golf often.............

BA's fault.

HometownGal
01-22-2011, 07:51 AM
That's why Arians is able to shrug off the criticism. He knows an awful lot of people think they can call plays better than he does. That goes with his job. He takes no offense.

It's not praise and pats on the back that Arians will remember when he leaves football, anyway. It's the wins and the championships and the relationships with the players.

Especially the relationships.




Nahhhhh - say it aint so.

Everyone here knows I am a huge BA supporter and this article just exemplifies a lot of the reasons why. Though I don't agree with every single one of his playcalls, I'm smart enough to know that he is in the position he is and I'm in the position I'm in as a mere fan for a reason. :heh: It doesn't matter what we think of him as fans - when all is said and done, it matters what the players, Tomlin and Art II think of him and I don't think there can be a shadow of a doubt - whether we make it to the big game or not - that the guy has done a great job with the O this season and I'm proud to have him as our OC. :applaudit:

SteelerFanInStl
01-22-2011, 08:06 AM
Good read! I haven't always been the biggest BA fan but I think he's done a much better job this year, especially lately. He and Ben are definitely on the same page.

Burghfan58
01-22-2011, 11:14 AM
If he would just be a little less conservative (put teams away instead of letting them hang around) when the Steelers have the lead I would be more of a supporter.

LLT
01-22-2011, 11:34 AM
I think alot of us fell into the trap of thinking that BA was at fault for every bad play....but I also thing that making it this far into the playoffs with rookie, 2nd string,third string lineman...and young WR's is pretty impressive.

We have seen the linemen perform above our expectations. Seen the WR's mature. And watched as Arians was able to open the playbook up a little more... at a critical time.

zulater
01-22-2011, 01:08 PM
It's always a lot easiar being a OC when you have a Hall of Fame caliber qb in his prime.

Chidi29
01-22-2011, 01:35 PM
It's always a lot easiar being a OC when you have a Hall of Fame caliber qb in his prime.

There's no way for Arians to win, huh?

If the offense struggles, it's not the "Hall of Fame caliber qb in his prime". It's Arians' fault.

If the offense does well, the credit goes to Ben.

zulater
01-22-2011, 02:31 PM
There's no way for Arians to win, huh?

If the offense struggles, it's not the "Hall of Fame caliber qb in his prime". It's Arians' fault.

If the offense does well, the credit goes to Ben.

Need a cookie Chidi?

Obviously Arians doesn't give a damn if he's not my favorite flavor, so why do you? I think the guy's done an ok job this year, but I still think he's middle of the pack among his peers. I think Ben's always been about a year behind in his development, I think to some extent that's because Arians has been an enabler more than a coach. That situation finally may have resolved itself due to offseason events, but all in all I'm still a jury still out guy when it comes to B.A.

HometownGal
01-22-2011, 02:47 PM
There's no way for Arians to win, huh?

If the offense struggles, it's not the "Hall of Fame caliber qb in his prime". It's Arians' fault.

If the offense does well, the credit goes to Ben.

BINGO. :thumbsup:

Here's a for instance. Last week, I felt BA called a damned good game - especially when it mattered the most - and other than myself, not one person here gave the man his due. If the Steelers had lost - even though BA wasn't the one who made the fumbles or allowed Webb a great return which was almost returned for a TD resulting in 17 Rats points - sadly, he would have been the scapegoat as he always is. :doh: I remember the horrors of last season all too well when our D shit the bed in at least 6 games and gave up leads late in the 4th quarter which the O had secured but who was blamed? Guess who?

Anyway - I don't want to get back into a BA haters vs. BA supporters bru-ha-ha. I appreciate the man and feel he's done a great job this season with the O, INCLUDING the first 4 games of the season when we were without our million dollar man.

zulater
01-22-2011, 02:56 PM
OK how's this folks, 3rd and 19, Steelers in time out, Arians wants all the receivers to run 15 yard stop routes. Ben say's hell no, let's send some deep! Antoine Brown catches a 54 yarder, setting up the Steelers winning TD.

That's the difference between greatness and mediocrity my friends.

Look I could sit here quitely or sing kumbaya with the rest of you seeing as that's the way the water's flowing today. But that's not how I feel. I think Bruce is a marginal coach, always has been, most likely always will. I think he's hooked on to a star, and as a result looks better than he actually is for the moment.

Texasteel
01-22-2011, 03:29 PM
OK how's this folks, 3rd and 19, Steelers in time out, Arians wants all the receivers to run 15 yard stop routes. Ben say's hell no, let's send some deep! Antoine Brown catches a 54 yarder, setting up the Steelers winning TD.

That's the difference between greatness and mediocrity my friends.

Look I could sit here quitely or sing kumbaya with the rest of you seeing as that's the way the water's flowing today. But that's not how I feel. I think Bruce is a marginal coach, always has been, most likely always will. I think he's hooked on to a star, and as a result looks better than he actually is for the moment.

You just plainly hate BA and no matter want you are not going to give him credit. Just leave it at that, even tho evidently Ben, the offense think he is doing a fine job.

We are one win away from the SB, you don't do that in spite of your coaches. They all desire a great deal of credit. Future HOF QB and coaches alike.

Chidi29
01-22-2011, 03:30 PM
Need a cookie Chidi?

Obviously Arians doesn't give a damn if he's not my favorite flavor, so why do you? I think the guy's done an ok job this year, but I still think he's middle of the pack among his peers. I think Ben's always been about a year behind in his development, I think to some extent that's because Arians has been an enabler more than a coach. That situation finally may have resolved itself due to offseason events, but all in all I'm still a jury still out guy when it comes to B.A.

Arians has talked about the tricky line that exists in changing a QB. As much as I've clamored for Ben to become a stronger QB mentally, you can't make major changes with a QB. It's a slower process. Arians has talked about trying to drastically changing a QB earlier in his coaching career and ruining the kid. We're now seeing Ben become the complete package and credit should go to Ben, Arians, and Fitchner.

Chocolate chip would be my preference zulater.

Texasteel
01-22-2011, 03:42 PM
Arians has talked about the tricky line that exists in changing a QB. As much as I've clamored for Ben to become a stronger QB mentally, you can't make major changes with a QB. It's a slower process. Arians has talked about trying to drastically changing a QB earlier in his coaching career and ruining the kid. We're now seeing Ben become the complete package and credit should go to Ben, Arians, and Fitchner.

Chocolate chip would be my preference zulater.


Ben has in deed grown a great deal and has become a much better QB. That can only be due to hard work by Ben, and good work by the coaches. In his first SB I heard that we won in spite of the QB, now we are winning in spite of the coach. This will never change Chidi, believe me they just can not give credit where credit is due.

Chidi29
01-22-2011, 03:49 PM
OK how's this folks, 3rd and 19, Steelers in time out, Arians wants all the receivers to run 15 yard stop routes. Ben say's hell no, let's send some deep! Antoine Brown catches a 54 yarder, setting up the Steelers winning TD.

That's the difference between greatness and mediocrity my friends.

Look I could sit here quitely or sing kumbaya with the rest of you seeing as that's the way the water's flowing today. But that's not how I feel. I think Bruce is a marginal coach, always has been, most likely always will. I think he's hooked on to a star, and as a result looks better than he actually is for the moment.

And Arians let that happen. The article talked about leaving the game in the player's hands and doing what they're comfortable with. Tomlin lets his assistant coaches coach. We've heard about LeBeau listening to his players who wanted to blitz more often. LeBeau did so at their advice. Even though these guys are coaches, there is a bit of give-and-take.

Anyone remember how stubborn Buddy Parker was? Granted, it was a bad team, but his stubborness repeatedly hurt us. In our pre-dynasty era, there are repeated examples of us being stubborn. Be it being the last team to switch to the "T", a refusal to pass the ball on early downs, to Parker's hatred of rookies and cutting players on the spot, trying to prove no one was expendable. Lynn Chandnois could have enjoyed a more successful time with Pittsburgh, but Parker cut him.

I've always been a supporter of Arians. I was one of the few backing him last year.

http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=pit&tid=5921461&tsn=1
http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=pit&tid=6230409&lid=90
http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=pit&tid=6195791&lid=94
http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=pit&tid=6833984&tsn=81

I'm under the same name there as I am here.

I've been as big a backer as they come.

LLT
01-22-2011, 04:07 PM
OK how's this folks, 3rd and 19, Steelers in time out, Arians wants all the receivers to run 15 yard stop routes. Ben say's hell no, let's send some deep! Antoine Brown catches a 54 yarder, setting up the Steelers winning TD.

That's the difference between greatness and mediocrity my friends.

Look I could sit here quitely or sing kumbaya with the rest of you seeing as that's the way the water's flowing today. But that's not how I feel. I think Bruce is a marginal coach, always has been, most likely always will. I think he's hooked on to a star, and as a result looks better than he actually is for the moment.

Zu...

What you are talking about happens on every team...on every play. The OC calls a play in...and the QB makes adjustments based on what he sees in the coverage. That doesnt make the OC's "marginal". If it did, then every OC in the league is marginal for letting their QB's make the correct adjustements at the line.

I dont think Arians calling 15 yard patterns on a 3rd and 19 is uncommon among OC's...I'm not sure if ANY team has a play for 3rd and 19 in their playbook. 3rd and 19 is a BAD place to be!!! The hope is that the WR gets the 4 yards after the catch. It was only after Ben saw the safety cheating to one side that he made the adjustement for Brown to go long....which is something that Arians had no way of predicting.

If the Safety would have played it differently...then the 3rd and 15 routes are the right calls to make....everytime....if the safety cheats...then having one of your speedsters go long is the right "adjustment" at the line...everytime.

X-Terminator
01-22-2011, 04:14 PM
There's no way for Arians to win, huh?

If the offense struggles, it's not the "Hall of Fame caliber qb in his prime". It's Arians' fault.

If the offense does well, the credit goes to Ben.

That's the way it's always been. There are a lot of people who would rather cut off both their arms than give BA credit for anything.

zulater
01-22-2011, 05:06 PM
You just plainly hate BA and no matter want you are not going to give him credit. Just leave it at that, even tho evidently Ben, the offense think he is doing a fine job.

We are one win away from the SB, you don't do that in spite of your coaches. They all desire a great deal of credit. Future HOF QB and coaches alike.

Lol, I don't hate anyone, not even Brady or Bellichick. And I didn't say he sucked, was awful, need fired etc.... I just think he's marginal, mediocre, you know Coors lite middle of the pack, I'm not talking Keystone light awful. :lol:

Besides, I thought you guys were the ones against "bandwagon jumpers".

LLT
01-22-2011, 05:16 PM
Lol, I don't hate anyone, not even Brady or Bellichick. And I didn't say he sucked, was awful, need fired etc.... I just think he's marginal, mediocre, you know Coors lite middle of the pack, I'm not talking Keystone light awful. :lol:

Besides, I thought you guys were the ones against "bandwagon jumpers".

Its your opinion Zu.....(I like the beer analogy).

Heck...I hated Deshea Townsend the whole time he was here, and no one understood it!!!

I think people are just surprised that we are this far into the playoffs and there are still some fans who dont see Arians as a part of our success.

Throw me a bone.....IF we win the SB this year, will ya give Arians some love???

Psycho Ward 86
01-22-2011, 05:27 PM
We are one win away from the SB, you don't do that in spite of your coaches.

Sure you can. It's been done tenfold.

GoSlash27
01-22-2011, 06:06 PM
There's no way for Arians to win, huh?

If the offense struggles, it's not the "Hall of Fame caliber qb in his prime". It's Arians' fault.

If the offense does well, the credit goes to Ben.
Not really. Arians gets the credit/ blame for the play calling when Ben doesn't audible.
Ben gets the credit/blame for his execution and any audibles.
I still don't think BA has done a very good job calling or planning this year. If he did, Mendy would have more yards and Ben wouldn't be scrambling trying to find an open receiver.

zulater
01-22-2011, 06:13 PM
Sure you can. It's been done tenfold.

Barry Switzer comes right to mind. :chuckle:

zulater
01-22-2011, 06:16 PM
Its your opinion Zu.....(I like the beer analogy).

Heck...I hated Deshea Townsend the whole time he was here, and no one understood it!!!

I think people are just surprised that we are this far into the playoffs and there are still some fans who dont see Arians as a part of our success.

Throw me a bone.....IF we win the SB this year, will ya give Arians some love???

I see Arians as part of the success. I do think he's brought up his game this season. I just don't think he's elite. I couldn't see him succeeding with a marginal qb like Chan Gailey, and Mike Mularkey both did with Kordell in 97 and 01, and then Tommy Maddox in 02.

And hopefully he'll never have to. :drink:

LLT
01-22-2011, 06:35 PM
I see Arians as part of the success. I do think he's brought up his game this season. I just don't think he's elite. I couldn't see him succeeding with a marginal qb like Chan Gailey, and Mike Mularkey both did with Kordell in 97 and 01, and then Tommy Maddox in 02.

And hopefully he'll never have to. :drink:

Yikes....hamstringing any OC with Kordell and Maddox is mad mojo. You are bringing up bad memories for me!!!!!!

tube517
01-22-2011, 06:56 PM
I joke and kid about everything being BA's fault but he's done a better job this year. And I am a BA "hater". I will give him due credit this year, especially for the first 4 game w/a 3rd/4th string QB. I like the balanced attack. I like the development of the WR's. I like Ben's development. And if you erase the TO's from last week, it could have been a blowout because the Ravens O did nothing. Finally, the OL was/is a MASH unit and he's had to deal with that all year.

My only "complaint" this year is the number of carries Mendy had. I just don't like think a RB in this day and age can carry 340+ times in a year any more. And whether it's Tomlin, BA, or the RB coach, they need to look at that again next year.

Other than that, I hope BA continues the success and can get 2 more wins this year.

Chidi29
01-22-2011, 07:12 PM
Not really. Arians gets the credit/ blame for the play calling when Ben doesn't audible.
Ben gets the credit/blame for his execution and any audibles.
I still don't think BA has done a very good job calling or planning this year. If he did, Mendy would have more yards and Ben wouldn't be scrambling trying to find an open receiver.

You know as well as I do that's it is very difficult for Arians to get credit. People are much more willing to put the blame on him than give him credit.

Why is Mendy or Ben's struggles just on Arians? Where is the personal accountability? Ben missing an open guy? Mendenhall not hitting a hole with conviction. Plus, the outside factors. The line has been a mess this year, ravaged with injuries since training camp. How is that Arians fault? The RG spot, the most important piece of our run game IMO, has gone through the most change of the starting five.

Craic
01-22-2011, 07:51 PM
My only "complaint" this year is the number of carries Mendy had. I just don't like think a RB in this day and age can carry 340+ times in a year any more. And whether it's Tomlin, BA, or the RB coach, they need to look at that again next year.

Other than that, I hope BA continues the success and can get 2 more wins this year.

I agree with you. However, I remember Tomlin saying "we are going to run the wheels off of Willie." That is exactly what they did. I think using Mendy that much comes straight from Tomlin. Its one of the few places where I disagree with him-not that that means much :chuckle:

steelreserve
01-22-2011, 07:53 PM
I really think he's gotten better this year. He finally learned that not being flat and predictable every series, and mixing in the occasional bit of deception, is actually a decent way to call a football game.

A couple of personnel moves might have helped this happen, too. Wallace being the fastest guy on the planet and ARE having the ability to throw the ball kind of beat you over the head with the temptation to try deception ... and Redman's emergence (not to mention not having Parker wasting that roster spot) has made running on 3rd-and-1 a viable option.

Craic
01-22-2011, 08:00 PM
I really think he's gotten better this year. He finally learned that not being flat and predictable every series, and mixing in the occasional bit of deception, is actually a decent way to call a football game.

A couple of personnel moves might have helped this happen, too. Wallace being the fastest guy on the planet and ARE having the ability to throw the ball kind of beat you over the head with the temptation to try deception ... and Redman's emergence (not to mention not having Parker wasting that roster spot) has made running on 3rd-and-1 a viable option.

For your first point, I think it was the addition of Pouncey and our WR's that have helped him. It wasn't that his playcalling has improved. Its that he now has the personnel and a QB that is focused.

On the last... if you take away Mendy's long runs.... his average is worse than Willies.

GoSlash27
01-22-2011, 08:08 PM
You know as well as I do that's it is very difficult for Arians to get credit. People are much more willing to put the blame on him than give him credit.

Why is Mendy or Ben's struggles just on Arians? Where is the personal accountability? Ben missing an open guy? Mendenhall not hitting a hole with conviction. Plus, the outside factors. The line has been a mess this year, ravaged with injuries since training camp. How is that Arians fault? The RG spot, the most important piece of our run game IMO, has gone through the most change of the starting five.

"People", sure. "Me", not so much. I only hold people accountable that have direct authority over the screw-ups. If it wasn't for Ben's ability to extend busted plays and Mendy's ability to recognize and avoid a bad blocking scheme, BA would end up looking a lot worse than he has this year.

Devilsdancefloor
01-22-2011, 08:42 PM
For your first point, I think it was the addition of Pouncey and our WR's that have helped him. It wasn't that his playcalling has improved. Its that he now has the personnel and a QB that is focused.

On the last... if you take away Mendy's long runs.... his average is worse than Willies.

ok i am having to clean off my monitor on that!

As for BA never hated him, but hated his situational play calling (he kinda goes al davis on us sometimes), but this year he has really out done himself in a few games!! BA vs BA haters is the only thing Steelers fans can fight about anyway which proves we are SOOOOOOOOOOOO damn lucky to be fans of the greatest sports franchise in the world! Besides NO matter if it was someone else in his shoes it would be there fault. everyone in Bmore is calling for cams head. Right now i can not think of one person i would rather have as OC. HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GO!!

Chidi29
01-22-2011, 09:08 PM
"People", sure. "Me", not so much. I only hold people accountable that have direct authority over the screw-ups. If it wasn't for Ben's ability to extend busted plays and Mendy's ability to recognize and avoid a bad blocking scheme, BA would end up looking a lot worse than he has this year.

And if Dick LeBeau is given a group of Pop Warner kids to work with, the defense is going to fail no matter what LeBeau does.

There is a part of player skill that makes the OC look good. It's definitely a two-way street. I've never denied that.

GoSlash27
01-22-2011, 09:31 PM
And if Dick LeBeau is given a group of Pop Warner kids to work with, the defense is going to fail no matter what LeBeau does.

There is a part of player skill that makes the OC look good. It's definitely a two-way street. I've never denied that.
Not if his pop warner kids are playing against another set of pop warner kids. You can see the influence LeBeau has had on the league. He has single-handedly reinvented how you play defense in this league. BA? Not so much.

Chidi29
01-22-2011, 11:23 PM
Not if his pop warner kids are playing against another set of pop warner kids. You can see the influence LeBeau has had on the league. He has single-handedly reinvented how you play defense in this league. BA? Not so much.

You missed the point I was making.

It's implied that having good players makes a coach look good. Without good players, no coach can look good. Noll didn't have success right away. He was 1-13 in '69. It was only until he drafted talent that he could mold that the team became successful.

Texasteel
01-23-2011, 07:36 AM
Barry Switzer comes right to mind. :chuckle:

Switzer did little more that show up for the press conferences Zu. His assistant coaches, who I don't think he was aloud to pick, did most if not all the work.

He was sort of like that little bull dog that sits on the hood of a Mac truck.

ALLD
01-23-2011, 07:45 AM
I give credit to BA when he dials up some "Whiz-like" trick plays and implements them, especially ARE's wideout option passes. However, BA reminds me of a not-so-talented pencil pushing company vice-president who does his best work when he goes golfing and does not interfere with the people who actually perform work.

GoSlash27
01-23-2011, 08:55 AM
You missed the point I was making.

It's implied that having good players makes a coach look good. Without good players, no coach can look good. Noll didn't have success right away. He was 1-13 in '69. It was only until he drafted talent that he could mold that the team became successful.

No, I do get the point. Coach Dad is actually fond of pointing that out himself. But I don't see any lack of talent on this squad. To the contrary, I see them making positive yardage out of what should've been busted plays. When I see a regular pattern of our offense being most effective on un-scripted plays, I can't pin that on the players. It's the guy who's writing the script.

Consider the contrast between LeBeau and BA. Lebeau took the 3-4 defense (something that the rest of the league had written off as useless), put in players that were thought to be too small to play, and invented an entirely new way to play defense simply by confusing the Hell out of opposing quarterbacks. He sent a lot of people to the Pro-bowl and now everyone else is trying to copy the LeBeau zone blitz.
Heck, even comparing him to "Whiz", it can be argued that Whiz accomplished a lot more with a lot less by relying on using the pro-set to keep defenses guessing. The power running game developed the pass through play action, and once we had a comfy lead he would simply beat defenses into submission and squeeze the air out of the ball. What has BA done to improve on the design? What is BA's philosophy? Does he even have one?

Texasteel
01-23-2011, 09:25 AM
Our line has been a problem, that is plainly a fact and the opinion of a vast majority of anyone that covers the NFL. When they play well we have been moving the ball. When they don't play well, they are usually the reason for the busted play. If you are saying that BA is a failure because he does not mature up to Labeau, then this league is made up of mostly if not totally failures.

It does seem that the players that play for him, and the team that employs him are happy with the job he is doing. I will trust their football knowledge over mine, or anyone else's here.

GoSlash27
01-23-2011, 10:08 AM
Our line has been a problem, that is plainly a fact and the opinion of a vast majority of anyone that covers the NFL. When they play well we have been moving the ball. When they don't play well, they are usually the reason for the busted play.
Not disputing that, but whose responsibility is it to get them playing well?

If you are saying that BA is a failure because he does not mature up to Labeau, then this league is made up of mostly if not totally failures.
I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that a coordinator is judged by what he brings to the table. You look at other coordinators we've had and you can see what they've done. When you see other teams starting to copy their approach, that's the mark of an effective coordinator. I don't see anyone else copying BA's philosophy. Hell... I can't tell if he even has a philosophy.
I dunno... maybe his contribution is simply making Ben a better football player and putting the game in his hands.

Texasteel
01-23-2011, 10:33 AM
You can get as much as you can out of someone, but that is not alway that good. He has been shuffling the line around, and at time they have played will, but this line IMO will never play great, or even well all the time. Just so they play the next two well.


What does BA to the table. Just of the top of my head.

Involve in SB wins, and one win away from going to another. Your right, not many have copied that.

X-Terminator
01-23-2011, 11:34 AM
Not disputing that, but whose responsibility is it to get them playing well?

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that a coordinator is judged by what he brings to the table. You look at other coordinators we've had and you can see what they've done. When you see other teams starting to copy their approach, that's the mark of an effective coordinator. I don't see anyone else copying BA's philosophy. Hell... I can't tell if he even has a philosophy.
I dunno... maybe his contribution is simply making Ben a better football player and putting the game in his hands.

Pretty sure his "philosophy" is based on the personnel he has to work with. In the past, when the strength of his offense was the running game, he ran the ball a lot (Temple and Paul Palmer, for example). And if the strength of his team is the passing game, he went with more of a passing attack (Steelers last year, Browns before that). This year he has been more balanced, despite the Steelers still not being a strong rushing team based on their own history, but their strength is still the passing game with Ben. I don't think there is a thing wrong with building your offense around your strengths.

HometownGal
01-23-2011, 02:34 PM
Not disputing that, but whose responsibility is it to get them playing well?

It is ultimately the players responsibility to get themselves ready to play. A coordinator/coach can have the best playbook in the world but if the players don't execute accordingly, it's not on the coach, imho. A coach isn't out there missing a tackle or a coverage or turning over the ball. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.


I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that a coordinator is judged by what he brings to the table. You look at other coordinators we've had and you can see what they've done. When you see other teams starting to copy their approach, that's the mark of an effective coordinator. I don't see anyone else copying BA's philosophy. Hell... I can't tell if he even has a philosophy.


Hmmmm - 99% of all Steelers fans absolutely loved Wiz as an OC but yet he tried to turn the Cards into the Steelers West. His O absolutely STUNK this season. Imho - the mark of a good coach/coordinator is his ability to stare adversity right in the face - overcome and conquer it and that is exactly what our entire coaching staff, including BA, have done this season. With Arians - he started the season without Ben and had to design a special playbook for Lefty. Lefty got hurt in the preseason and he had to turn around and design another playbook for Dixon and then he went down. He then had to design plays for Charlie, who executed those plays pretty darned well, as did our O overall and we went 3-1. He also was working with a severely depleted OL and 2 rookie receivers. I 100% believe that considering everything that adversely affected the O unit this season, BA did a remarkable job. Sure having Ben back behind center was a huge plus after our bye, but Ben and BA are totally in sync with each other and our offense is finally getting noticed.

Chidi29
01-23-2011, 03:22 PM
No, I do get the point. Coach Dad is actually fond of pointing that out himself. But I don't see any lack of talent on this squad. To the contrary, I see them making positive yardage out of what should've been busted plays. When I see a regular pattern of our offense being most effective on un-scripted plays, I can't pin that on the players. It's the guy who's writing the script.

Consider the contrast between LeBeau and BA. Lebeau took the 3-4 defense (something that the rest of the league had written off as useless), put in players that were thought to be too small to play, and invented an entirely new way to play defense simply by confusing the Hell out of opposing quarterbacks. He sent a lot of people to the Pro-bowl and now everyone else is trying to copy the LeBeau zone blitz.
Heck, even comparing him to "Whiz", it can be argued that Whiz accomplished a lot more with a lot less by relying on using the pro-set to keep defenses guessing. The power running game developed the pass through play action, and once we had a comfy lead he would simply beat defenses into submission and squeeze the air out of the ball. What has BA done to improve on the design? What is BA's philosophy? Does he even have one?

No, I'm pretty sure you're still missing my point. Let's take the names out of it.

Any coach will not have success without good players.

I'm not calling Arians the Dick LeBeau of OCs. Clearly, he's not. You're too wrapped up in that. It was merely me pointing out that even a great coach like LeBeau, one of the best ever, will not succeed unless his players make plays.

Arians has done a lot if you ask me. He's the guy with the unfortuante task of copleteu changing the philosophy of this team. From virtually the beginning of our existence, we were a "power attack is the way to win the game" team. Not that that's a bad thing, but Arians approach is a lot different. They're obviously different styles. Arians had to help turn this team from a power running style in a more open, pass-oriented team. There have been struggles, as there will always be when undergoing such a radical change (I've referred Arians as out "Teen Years" guy - the bridge between two levels) but we're seeing a product that when on it's game, is pretty impressive. It has gotten better and hopefully, will continue to get better.

fansince'76
01-23-2011, 03:29 PM
No, I'm pretty sure you're still missing my point. Let's take the names out of it.

Any coach will not have success without good players.

I'm not calling Arians the Dick LeBeau of OCs. Clearly, he's not. You're too wrapped up in that. It was merely me pointing out that even a great coach like LeBeau, one of the best ever, will not succeed unless his players make plays.

Exactly. Look at the difference in the defense when Troy plays and when he doesn't.


Arians has done a lot if you ask me. He's the guy with the unfortuante task of copleteu changing the philosophy of this team. From virtually the beginning of our existence, we were a "power attack is the way to win the game" team. Not that that's a bad thing, but Arians approach is a lot different. They're obviously different styles. Arians had to help turn this team from a power running style in a more open, pass-oriented team. There have been struggles, as there will always be when undergoing such a radical change (I've referred Arians as out "Teen Years" guy - the bridge between two levels) but we're seeing a product that when on it's game, is pretty impressive. It has gotten better and hopefully, will continue to get better.

Yep. Prime example being last week. We lose that game playing "Cowherball," plain and simple.

zulater
01-23-2011, 03:33 PM
I don't want to get too deeply immersed in this, as I said before, I think Arians has raised his level somewhat this year, overall I'm ok with him. But without an elite qb like Ben, I think he'd be in trouble. You put a mid level guy like Matt Cassells, or a turnover machine such as Jay cutler on this team and we'd never see another playoff win.

And yes I understand our offensive line is underwhelming, but so are our db's, yet somehow LeBeau manages to generally get it done at a near elite level. The Steelers played 59 minutes with Antony Madison as their nickle back last week for gosh sakes!

HometownGal
01-23-2011, 03:37 PM
And yes I understand our offensive line is underwhelming, but so are our db's, yet somehow LeBeau manages to generally get it done at a near elite level. The Steelers played 59 minutes with Antony Madison as their nickle back last week for gosh sakes!

Amen Zu. You get it. :drink:

Our OL has been playing without two of our top OL'men for the majority of the season but yet Arians has managed to call some good games using a balanced attack, even with those glaring weaknesses. Go figure.

zulater
01-23-2011, 03:41 PM
Amen Zu. You get it. :drink:

Our OL has been playing without two of our top OL'men for the majority of the season but yet Arians has managed to call some good games using a balanced attack, even with those glaring weaknesses. Go figure.

No offense intended, the better Bruce does the happier I am. But I still think Ben is the straw that stirs the drink, without him, our offense would be largely putrid. (IMHO< of course that wouldn't be BA's fault)

But hey, Ben and BA seem to work well together, so let's hope they got some fireworks in store for us today! :drink:

Texasteel
01-23-2011, 03:45 PM
I have been a little cridical of LaBeau in the past, but if anyone thinks I am going to compare BA or evern 3/4 of the head coaches to him, your nuts.

HometownGal
01-23-2011, 03:50 PM
No offense intended, the better Bruce does the happier I am. But I still think Ben is the straw that stirs the drink, without him, our offense would be largely putrid. (IMHO< of course that wouldn't be BA's fault)

Just as Troy is the straw that stirs the D's :drink: Ben and Troy both make their units tick.


But hey, Ben and BA seem to work well together, so let's hope they got some fireworks in store for us today! :drink:

Did hell freeze over while I wasn't looking? :jawdrop2: We actually agree on something with regard to this topic! :applaudit: :hug:

zulater
01-23-2011, 03:52 PM
If the Steelers score 24+ offensive points and win today, and I'll come to this thread afterwards and praise BA to high heaven!

( and no I wont trash him afterwards if things don't go as I hope, it's been too good of a season to ruin it with ugliness)

HometownGal
01-23-2011, 08:55 PM
Oh Zu!!!!! I"m waiting for you buddy. ;) :heh:

BA called a great game and even you haters can't deny that. :tt02: :drink:

zulater
01-23-2011, 09:00 PM
Oh Zu!!!!! I"m waiting for you buddy. ;) :heh:

BA called a great game and even you haters can't deny that. :tt02: :drink:

I said 24 offensive points.:nono:

j.k. I thought Arains called a good game. And thank you Ben for those last two completions. :nw:

tube517
01-23-2011, 09:04 PM
BA was fine. Defense went soft. Ike slips on one play. It's ok. We're going to Dallas

zulater
01-23-2011, 09:20 PM
When we got the ball back at the end of the game we had to get two first downs.

Letting Ben pass on 2nd and 8 on the last Steelers series, whoever's idea, that was, was a stroke of brilliance and why we held on to win the game. Well that and the 3rd down conversion pass to Brown. That was money man, anyone who wants to knock Ben for this game, fuck the numbers, he made the play that he had to when he had to and that's why we won.

zulater
01-24-2011, 04:07 PM
[I]With two minutes left and nursing a 24-19 lead, the Steelers had third-and-six at the Jet 40. No New York timeouts left. If Ben Roethlisberger converted the first down, the game was over. If not, the Jets would have one more chance at a miracle. "Antonio Brown was Ben's fourth option,'' said Arians. Hines Ward and Heath Miller, the vets, were 1 and 2, and Mike Wallace 3. Roethlisberger got flushed right. He rolled and rolled, and just before he was going to have to eat it, he threw it over the outstretched hands of the pursuers into Brown's gut. Gain of 14. Ball game.

"What's rewarding,'' Arians said, "is that Ben saw what I saw in training camp. I saw Emmanuel Sanders [a third-round pick] and Antonio playing well, and I told Ben, 'These kids are gonna help us in December.' I coached him, rode 'em really hard. I was unmerciful. But Ben saw it early, saw how good they could be. I said to Ben, 'You hug 'em, I'll cuss 'em,' and it's worked out. They've become good players for us.''[/I

]Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/01/23/championships/index.html#ixzz1Bzd6rS7R

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-24-2011, 04:36 PM
I see Arians as part of the success. I do think he's brought up his game this season. I just don't think he's elite. I couldn't see him succeeding with a marginal qb like Chan Gailey, and Mike Mularkey both did with Kordell in 97 and 01, and then Tommy Maddox in 02.

And hopefully he'll never have to. :drink:

I never thought of it that way before.

BTW, when is the last time a Steelers QB didnt publicly support his OC?? I bet Ray Sherman got some love from his QB's.

zulater
01-24-2011, 08:48 PM
http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/01/tomlin-arians-learned-jacksonville-playoff-loss-3-seasons/

This is the first thing that came to mind to me yesterday when the Steelers played to win rather than not to lose like they did that day 4 years ago. Good coaches learn from their mistakes, Tomlin and Arians came up aces when it mattered yesterday.

HometownGal
01-25-2011, 05:52 AM
From a Smizik article posted in another thread, which is as spot-on as it gets. :thumbsup: :applaudit:


I've been defending Bruce Arians here for a long time and that probably leaves some people to believe I’m infatuated with him as an offensive coordinator. That’s not so.

I defend Arians against what I feel are unfair charges of poor play-calling. I have long maintained that most of us simply don’t have enough information to evaluate play calls. Too many people work on the theory if it doesn’t work, it was a bad play call. That’s not necessarily so.

I’m not suggesting he doesn’t make bad calls. All play-callers do.

But as far as Arians' overall body of work, I’m not too proud to say I simply don’t know. I have no idea what he is doing, what Mike Tomlin is doing, what is the other offensive coaches are doing, what the players are doing.

The fact the team was middle of the pack in offensive statistics doesn’t necessarily mean he’s doing a poor job. They played all season with a makeshift offensive line and most of the season with a guy who couldn’t start for Buffalo manning the all-important left tackle position.

Anyone who thinks they can fully evaluate Arians’ work, must be sitting in on the team’s offensive meetings.