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zulater
01-13-2011, 12:09 PM
The reason I bring this up is because there was a thread yesterday that was locked down that I didn't feel that I had a chance to adequetly explain my position before it was locked down.

I mean reading that thread, you'd think me and several other's were insensitive slobs who had no idea of the seriousness of rape.

Well I do, it's obviously awful. And no, I've never been raped, nor to the best of my knowledge no one close to me has either, nor do I have a sister or a daughter.

But before anyone gets on the high horse and says, "oh that explains it, you've never been close to it, so therefore you don't get it. Rape is something that should never be made light of, nor should we ever look for humor in it in any sense whatsoever."

Well if that's the case, where do we draw the line? Murder, isn't that equally horrendous? So does that mean you didn't laugh at the Naked Gun movies, Scary Movie etc...? What about O.J. jokes, ever gone there? Ahole nearly decapitated his baby mama, yet how many have had a laugh over that situation at least once in their time?

Pedophilia? Any 'Family Guy' fans out there? Herbert make you laugh? What about the movie 'The Hangover'? Did you laugh when Alan panicked because Doug pulled up in front of the school to pick up Bradley because he wasn't allowed to be within 200 feet of a school?


My own sensativity would be to suicide. My niece commited suicide in 2009. Beautifull 22 year old girl with a 3 year old son. I can't tell you how awful that was and still is for my mother, my brother, and son, everyone including myself. But if someone makes light of suicide in a movie ( M*A*S*H*) or if a late night comic makes a joke of it, I don't get all worked up. I take it in the manner it was intended.

Anyway if a Jewish person like Mel Brooks can find humor in the Holocaust, I really don't see why we can't find the humor in virtually anything, including rape? Particuarly when the situation that was being lampooned, ( Ben) rape almost certainly never occured.

Just George
01-13-2011, 08:01 PM
Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Mel Brooks, Bill Hicks and so on and so on.

Great Comedians have always been social commentators. Their humor is FUNNY yes, but also thought provoking and a mirror that is held up to society. Daniel Tosh keeps that tradition going. His humor at times makes me cringe, sometimes I think it goes over the line; but that is what makes it work.

I get very anxious when people start firing up their version of political correctness and think it is not as abhorrent as any other form of PC. I appreciate that everyone has an opinion on this kind of issue, but do not judge someone as insensitive or barbaric for getting a laugh out of something that while the core issue is inherently horrific the bit was still just "funny".

as always this is only my opinion have a great day :)

stlrtruck
01-13-2011, 08:50 PM
Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Mel Brooks, Bill Hicks and so on and so on.

Great Comedians have always been social commentators. Their humor is FUNNY yes, but also thought provoking and a mirror that is held up to society. Daniel Tosh keeps that tradition going. His humor at times makes me cringe, sometimes I think it goes over the line; but that is what makes it work.

I get very anxious when people start firing up their version of political correctness and think it is not as abhorrent as any other form of PC. I appreciate that everyone has an opinion on this kind of issue, but do not judge someone as insensitive or barbaric for getting a laugh out of something that while the core issue is inherently horrific the bit was still just "funny".

as always this is only my opinion have a great day :)

There in lies the problem. People have gotten so use to not having their feelings hurt that they have forgotten how to shake it off and ignore the person speaking. While there are certain things I refuse to engage in, there are certain things I've seen/heard that are repulsive but I don't cry about it and get the "World owes me" attitude. I move on never to return to that area (and in the case of a forum - that thread or person posting), and let it go. Besides it's impossible for everyone on a forum to know what others have gone through and it's not that people are insensitive to situations, it's just levels of humor differ, and it seems that laughing at anything that gets near sensitive issues is a no-no. I say laugh it up and through the laughter you might find some healing.

Doc_Holiday
01-13-2011, 10:14 PM
There in lies the problem. People have gotten so use to not having their feelings hurt that they have forgotten how to shake it off and ignore the person speaking. While there are certain things I refuse to engage in, there are certain things I've seen/heard that are repulsive but I don't cry about it and get the "World owes me" attitude. I move on never to return to that area (and in the case of a forum - that thread or person posting), and let it go. Besides it's impossible for everyone on a forum to know what others have gone through and it's not that people are insensitive to situations, it's just levels of humor differ, and it seems that laughing at anything that gets near sensitive issues is a no-no. I say laugh it up and through the laughter you might find some healing.

Amen:clap2:

zulater
01-14-2011, 09:37 AM
Thanks for the input George, Doc, and struck.

LLT
01-14-2011, 10:53 AM
Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Mel Brooks, Bill Hicks and so on and so on.

Great Comedians have always been social commentators. Their humor is FUNNY yes, but also thought provoking and a mirror that is held up to society

But...keep this in mind.

Most often...if one is going to "go there" in regards to comedy...its not on a message board where the nuances of facial expressions, body language, and voice inflection add to the skit.

With a message board we all have to be a little more careful...having no benefit of those things there is a greater probablity of being "taken wrong".

Doc_Holiday
01-14-2011, 07:33 PM
It's not just message boards but emails and text messages. Technology has ruined comedy.

Chidi29
01-14-2011, 07:41 PM
But...keep this in mind.

Most often...if one is going to "go there" in regards to comedy...its not on a message board where the nuances of facial expressions, body language, and voice inflection add to the skit.

With a message board we all have to be a little more careful...having no benefit of those things there is a greater probablity of being "taken wrong".

To play devil's advocate, if the thread is found in the comedy thread (I don't remember if the thread in question was or not but I know there have been instances in the past) it should be treated as a joke and in no way a serious thought/condening the subject of the topic.

Texasteel
01-14-2011, 08:05 PM
Personally I would find any such jokes barbaric and of extremely poor taste. Note that I did not call anyone barbaric only the jokes. I can not see humor in something that is so foul and devastating to any person. By the comment of several others I would say that I am not alone in this. This is not a comedy club, nor is it just a message board, it is a community, and often in a community such as this we need to gage what we say, and yes joke about. Just because we can and have a right to say something does not mean it should be said. This is not an indictment of anyone, in fact I didn't see where anyone called anyone, low or insensitive. Only that they see no humor in the situation.

Doc_Holiday
01-14-2011, 08:22 PM
I missed the topic too.

Just George
01-14-2011, 08:33 PM
But...keep this in mind.

Most often...if one is going to "go there" in regards to comedy...its not on a message board where the nuances of facial expressions, body language, and voice inflection add to the skit.

With a message board we all have to be a little more careful...having no benefit of those things there is a greater probablity of being "taken wrong".


Personally I would find any such jokes barbaric and of extremely poor taste. Note that I did not call anyone barbaric only the jokes. I can not see humor in something that is so foul and devastating to any person. By the comment of several others I would say that I am not alone in this. This is not a comedy club, nor is it just a message board, it is a community, and often in a community such as this we need to gage what we say, and yes joke about. Just because we can and have a right to say something does not mean it should be said. This is not an indictment of anyone, in fact I didn't see where anyone called anyone, low or insensitive. Only that they see no humor in the situation.

both points taken. I appreciate the dialogue and I agree in that I do try to be aware of not maliciously offending someone or "forcing" others to view potentially hurtful or offensive material. I also think as a responsible member of the community I need to have empathy and sympathy for others, that said I did not see the issue in this particular video. It was in the Comedy section, the tag was "so wrong yet you will laugh". People had to choose to view it, knew it was possibly offensive. The comments in that particular thread are all gone so I can't say specifically what was stated (and it really doesn't matter) I thought people articulated their thoughts and opinions as others have here.

My comment "I get very anxious when people start firing up their version of political correctness and think it is not as abhorrent as any other form of PC" has less to do with the specific video or thread and more the general societal phenomena (and general topic as I took it of this thread) of differing taste, tolerance for "dark or offensive humor". I wonder who in general gets to decide the societal/community mores and values. Here on the board ultimately it is the Mods and Admins, and I am fine with that, but it is interesting question about who's "rights/values/whatever" recieve preference/priority for being respected. If I want to post something that others deem offensive, but I don't trick people into viewing it (awwww come see the cute puppy- cut to video of puppies being eviscerated) am I not allowed some leeway or do I have to filter EVERYTHING I post through the prism of I might possibly offend someone so I better defer. Cuz honestly there have been a couple of threads that I find offensive, but I have just backed out of them, not commented and gone on my merry way.

I really appreciate that we can discuss this without all becoming bat S#!t crazy and not yell at or insult each other.

zulater
01-15-2011, 01:36 AM
Personally I would find any such jokes barbaric and of extremely poor taste. Note that I did not call anyone barbaric only the jokes. I can not see humor in something that is so foul and devastating to any person. By the comment of several others I would say that I am not alone in this. This is not a comedy club, nor is it just a message board, it is a community, and often in a community such as this we need to gage what we say, and yes joke about. Just because we can and have a right to say something does not mean it should be said. This is not an indictment of anyone, in fact I didn't see where anyone called anyone, low or insensitive. Only that they see no humor in the situation.



Ever laugh at a Micheal Jackson joke? Why was Micheal Jackson in the K-Mart? Because he heard little boy's pants were half off. Remember those? So anyone who ever told or laughed at that sort of joke wasn't coignizant of apprecitative how horrific pedophiles are to their victims?

Basically that was the logic that was applied to the OP, and the first few commentators on the thread in question. I didn't think that was fair, so I said as much.

zulater
01-15-2011, 01:39 AM
I missed the topic too.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/5626-Daniel-Tosh-takes-a-shot-at-Ben

I was leveled with a "just saying" without being given a chance to respond to it, due to the thread being locked down.

I already saw the way the tide was flowing when I commented on that thread, it would have been easy to just hold my piece, but I didn't think it was fair to the OP and several others who commented on that thread early to do so, when I thought they were being castigated somewhat unfairly as being insensitive to rape.

Texasteel
01-15-2011, 07:13 AM
Ever laugh at a Micheal Jackson joke? Why was Micheal Jackson in the K-Mart? Because he heard little boy's pants were half off. Remember those? So anyone who ever told or laughed at that sort of joke wasn't coignizant of apprecitative how horrific pedophiles are to their victims?

Basically that was the logic that was applied to the OP, and the first few commentators on the thread in question. I didn't think that was fair, so I said as much.


I have a very good sense of humor, but no, I don't find much about Jackson's life funny, and nothing about child abuse, funny. I will not made the same sly remarks about you that you appear to be making about me. I will only ask you why it is so objectionable to you that some of us don't think rape, and child abuse is humorous?

Just George
01-15-2011, 07:49 AM
I have a very good sense of humor, but no, I don't find much about Jackson's life funny, and nothing about child abuse, funny. I will not made the same sly remarks about you that you appear to be making about me. I will only ask you why it is so objectionable to you that some of us don't think rape, and child abuse is humorous?

I personally find nothing objectionable to anyone not finding this funny, there are alot of things/people I don't find funny. I think (and Zu correct me if I am wrong) the issue is the implication that if those of us that found it funny had women, daughters etc in our lives whom we really loved and they had survived a brutal attack we would not find it funny. The unstated being that we are insensitive, brutish, un loving men. Now I know nobody said that, but it is not a far stretch to see where some one might have taken it that way and since we are on a message board


But...keep this in mind.

With a message board we all have to be a little more careful...having no benefit of those things there is a greater probablity of being "taken wrong".

so forgive me if I percieved that it was implied that I personally might be somehow defective if I laughed at that video. I am a big boy and I don't need acceptance from anyone, but also no one on this board knows me in RL except one person. If I believe that someone is making a perhaps personal implication about me I am going to reasonably, cogently present my side. No one knows what I have been through, what I believe, what kind of person I am.

I am truly sorry that anyone took offense at that video, but honestly it kind of felt like some people were not just stating their opinion but subtly lecturing us "neanderthals" who are not senstive enough or intelligent enough to realize that there are somethings that you just don't joke about.

When it comes to humor I am not sure if anyone has the right to impose restrictions on what others can say. If you have ever watched South Park or Family Guy they present some offensive material. Does someone have a right to dislike it yes, can they voice their displeasure at the shows and their fans yes, can they censor it or shut it down no, can they stop the fans from voicing their opinions no.

again I appreciate the civil discourse and also want to state clearly the Admins and Mods did not block this video it is my understanding youtube took it down. I am not accusing them of censoring me as they have allowed this thread to continue.

I also commented that those of you who were offended by the video, you chose to watch it and if you did not even watch it you are arguing from a stance of lack of information. You may say you don't need to see that kind of skit to know it is bad, but you still are only half informed as you missed the nuances of voice, image, body language etc.

I will also go back to my belief that the next time any of you stating your opinion that there is nothing funny here, there are things you shouldn't joke about etc disagree with someones version of political correctness take the time to think while you may not agree with them, you may not like what they are saying they may still sincerely hold a believe that is just different from yours.

It has been my experience that when an issue hits close to home for us we want everyone else to be aware and sympathetic to our feelings, but when it is somone else's issue we point the finger at them saying "they are over sensitive" "they need to get over it" "oh they just want to act like victims" "what about free speech". If you are in the con position that this video was funny and you have ever said anything like the above or felt frustrated at the wave of PC that has swept this country just think twice before you get angry or judgemental at someone for disagreeing with you. Just a thought.

[I will say this is some of the best discussion I have had in weeks where people are not throwing invectives or CAPS AT EVERYTHING, or snarking cruel post. Kudos to everyone]

ps
whether I agree with you on this issue or not you all are pretty great.

Texasteel
01-15-2011, 08:13 AM
I personally find nothing objectionable to anyone not finding this funny, there are alot of things/people I don't find funny. I think (and Zu correct me if I am wrong) the issue is the implication that if those of us that found it funny had women, daughters etc in our lives whom we really loved and they had survived a brutal attack we would not find it funny. The unstated being that we are insensitive, brutish, un loving men. Now I know nobody said that, but it is not a far stretch to see where some one might have taken it that way and since we are on a message board



What was stated was that several of us think there is nothing funny about rape. You will have to forgive us for that. What is implied is that those of us that do not think these jokes are funny, and do object to them, are hypocrites.

zulater
01-15-2011, 10:02 AM
What was stated was that several of us think there is nothing funny about rape. You will have to forgive us for that. What is implied is that those of us that do not think these jokes are funny, and do object to them, are hypocrites.

George covered if beautifully, I really have nothing to add at this point. Well maybe two things first,, we all have laughed or made a joke about something sensititive of inappropriate to someone at some point in time. Be it physical or mental limitations, religion, sexual preference or kinks ,animal cruelty (i.e Mike Vick jokes), the aforementioned topics ( murder, rape, etc...) so if we took everything that offends someone off the table for a potential joke source, it would be a pretty humorless world.

And second it's fine that you find certain subject matters unfunny, but when you object to them, aren't you in sense judging those that do?

Texasteel
01-15-2011, 11:06 AM
George covered if beautifully, I really have nothing to add at this point. Well maybe two things first,, we all have laughed or made a joke about something sensititive of inappropriate to someone at some point in time. Be it physical or mental limitations, religion, sexual preference or kinks ,animal cruelty (i.e Mike Vick jokes), the aforementioned topics ( murder, rape, etc...) so if we took everything that offends someone off the table for a potential joke source, it would be a pretty humorless world.

And second it's fine that you find certain subject matters unfunny, but when you object to them, aren't you in sense judging those that do?


I am delighted that you will let me laugh at what I will, and not laugh at what I do not think is funny. I will also object to what ever I find objectionable. Like it of not, that is all our rights. Objecting to a statement or a joke does not mean you abject to a person or are judging them.

I still see nothing funny about rape or child abuse, and I will not apologize for that.

zulater
01-15-2011, 11:17 AM
I am delighted that you will let me laugh at what I will, and not laugh at what I do not think is funny. I will also object to what ever I find objectionable. Like it of not, that is all our rights. Objecting to a statement or a joke does not mean you abject to a person or are judging them.

I still see nothing funny about rape or child abuse, and I will not apologize for that.

What about murder, war, suicide, mental or physical disabilty? Those off the table too?

zulater
01-15-2011, 11:21 AM
I am truly sorry that anyone took offense at that video, but honestly it kind of felt like some people were not just stating their opinion but subtly lecturing us "neanderthals" who are not senstive enough or intelligent enough to realize that there are somethings that you just don't joke about.

Quoting George here, this in essense is what this thread is all about.

Texasteel
01-15-2011, 12:21 PM
What about murder, war, suicide, mental or physical disabilty? Those off the table too?

You can try to gumble this up all you want but none of it has anything to do with the thread. You find jokes about rape humorous. I have not sugessed that you are evil, or demented because you do. Nor have I suggested that you do not have a right to you own sense of humor. I do not think there is anything funny rape. You have at the very least, have implied that I am being hypocritical, and judgmental.

To answer you question though, I don't find much humorous about murder, suicide, mental, or physical disability, and after loosing so many friends in the 60s and 70s, war battles are right out.

zulater
01-15-2011, 12:32 PM
You can try to gumble this up all you want but none of it has anything to do with the thread. You find jokes about rape humorous. I have not sugessed that you are evil, or demented because you do. Nor have I suggested that you do not have a right to you own sense of humor. I do not think there is anything funny rape. You have at the very least, have implied that I am being hypocritical, and judgmental.

To answer you question though, I don't find much humorous about murder, suicide, mental, or physical disability, and after loosing so many friends in the 60s and 70s, war battles are right out.

Tex, since your avater is from Young Frankenstein, did you find the scene with Gene Hackman as the blind man amusing? ( I sure did. :chuckle: ) Just saying. :wink02:

SteelerSal
01-15-2011, 12:50 PM
Zu..I like you and all but you sure beat a dead horse.:deadhorse:

Put you game face on!!:thumbsup:

zulater
01-15-2011, 12:57 PM
Zu..I like you and all but you sure beat a dead horse.:deadhorse:

Put you game face on!!:thumbsup:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw2IIU0a9qw

Not until I post this.:wink02:

Texasteel
01-15-2011, 01:34 PM
Tex, since your avater is from Young Frankenstein, did you find the scene with Gene Hackman as the blind man amusing? ( I sure did. :chuckle: ) Just saying. :wink02:

Yes I did. How ever it was not a skit about his blindness, but about what happened because of his blindness. There is a big difference. You should know the difference but I think you are grabbing a straws now.

Again, I'm have not and am not trying to put you in a bad light because of your sense of humor, just stating that I do not share it. I don't think you can say the same thing

Just George
01-15-2011, 01:35 PM
I am delighted that you will let me laugh at what I will, and not laugh at what I do not think is funny. I will also object to what ever I find objectionable. Like it of not, that is all our rights. Objecting to a statement or a joke does not mean you abject to a person or are judging them.

I still see nothing funny about rape or child abuse, and I will not apologize for that.

I appluad you for that Tex seriously. I do not mean to imply you are a hypocrite, my statements about political correctness apply to ALL of us, even me. I have at times been very upset that society is enforcing a code of ethics that doesn't alway sync up with mine. As an example there was another thread about Mark Twains Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn being edited to expunge offensive language. I know many people here and in RL were upset that the state of our country has gotten to the point where classic literature was being edited for content to make it more "comfortable" for todays audience and this issue just made me think that while I may disagree with people on the other side they are sincere, good people with an opinion that differs from mine.

I probably did take a poke at those of you on the con side to "think about it" and sorry my bad got into debate mode. However can you see that for those of us on the "laugh at pretty objectionable things" side can still be good people who love our wives, mothers, daughters and grandaughters, but still just giggled at the end. Not even thinking that this was a acceptance of or approval of rape?

zulater
01-15-2011, 01:50 PM
Yes I did. How ever it was not a skit about his blindness, but about what happened because of his blindness. There is a big difference. You should know the difference but I think you are grabbing a straws now.

Again, I'm have not and am not trying to put you in a bad light because of your sense of humor, just stating that I do not share it. I don't think you can say the same thing

Sure I can, just not at this moment, 'cause I got my "game face" on, as per Sal's suggestion. :chuckle:

Seriously,I've said what I wanted to say on this thread already Tex, and George has hit my points over the fence better than I was able to, so I'll leave it there. :drink:

LLT
01-15-2011, 01:52 PM
I'm not sure how much more needs to be said about this subject....both parties have plainly stated their positions and I appreciate both keeping it above board and marginally respectful.

I actually understand where both of you are coming from and would add the the line between funny/inappropriate is like beauty....its in the eye of the beholder.

That being said, on a message board , the line between funny and inappropriate is in the eyes of the....mod and/or admin. :eyebrows:

Texasteel
01-15-2011, 01:54 PM
No offense was taken George, and no need to apologize, either of us.

We all are human, and there for can be a little hypocritical at times, even Zu. (He just won't admit it :wink02:). I do understand your concerns over PC. I don't like it myself, and believe me, neither does to many people here. Believe it or not, I do have a wonderful sense of humor, and think most everything is funny. This is just one subject I find no humor in. I am not arguing against yours or anyone else's sense of humor. Just will not be bad mouthed because of mine. Guess I am just a little proud and arrogant myself.

Just George
01-15-2011, 02:03 PM
No offense was taken George, and no need to apologize, either of us.

We all are human, and there for can be a little hypocritical at times, even Zu. (He just won't admit it :wink02:). I do understand your concerns over PC. I don't like it myself, and believe me, neither does to many people here. Believe it or not, I do have a wonderful sense of humor, and think most everything is funny. This is just one subject I find no humor in. I am not arguing against yours or anyone else's sense of humor. Just will not be bad mouthed because of mine. Guess I am just a little proud and arrogant myself.

good on ya bud :) if we had more men and women, in leadership posistions, of conviction to stand proud for what they believe in without resorting to name calling or complaining this country would probably be all its suppossed to be.

Just George
01-15-2011, 02:08 PM
I'm not sure how much more needs to be said about this subject....both parties have plainly stated their positions and I appreciate both keeping it above board and marginally respectful.

I actually understand where both of you are coming from and would add the the line between funny/inappropriate is like beauty....its in the eye of the beholder.

That being said, on a message board , the line between funny and inappropriate is in the eyes of the....mod and/or admin. :eyebrows:

Glad He posted this a few post back :)

I wonder who in general gets to decide the societal/community mores and values. Here on the board ultimately it is the Mods and Admins[/COLOR]

Thanks LLT and the rest for letting this dialogue go on it was enlightening and spirited and I so appreciate everyones thoughtful stand for their beliefs.