The "No Means No" Chant

[TheSikOne]

Just thought I'd share this

So when this was going on, we told my mom the Browns fans are chanting No Means No, and she's like, "Why, cuz the Steelers are making the Browns their bitch??"

LMAO :tt02:

[stillers4me]

I love Mom!! :lol:

[Butch]

Your Mom is a Genius with a great sense of humor. Thanks for the laugh.

[zulater]

The ironic thing is by the gal's own admission she never told Ben, no, never told him to stop, or offered any any resistance, physical or otherwise. She said, "I'm not sure we should be doing this.", by that standard I might have commited rape several times in my younger days, only to have the gal make me breakfast the next morning.

[Merchant]

They were chanting this right before Ben threw the first TD to Wallace. Karma's a bitch.

[stillers4me]

They were chanting this right before Ben threw the first TD to Wallace. Karma's a bitch.

:lol: I bet he heard them, too. I love it when our guys get pissed.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Lmao, your mom is the best. I loved how many times the chant died down because Ben was just assaulting the Browns pass defense.

[HometownGal]

Yeah - NO means NO. NO championships for Browns fans for 46 years and counting. :lol:

[Psycho Ward 86]

Yeah - NO means NO. NO championships for Browns fans for 46 years and counting. :lol:

Nice interpretation, but perhaps by "No means no" refers to the Browns fans begging Ben to stop raping their defense? :chuckle:

[HometownGal]

Nice interpretation, but perhaps by "No means no" refers to the Browns fans begging Ben to stop raping their defense? :chuckle:

:lol: :thumbsup:

Or - it could mean NO fans left in the stadium by the middle of the third quarter. :heh:

[UltimateBengal]

:lol: :thumbsup:

Or - it could mean NO fans left in the stadium by the middle of the third quarter. :heh:

Or maybe they meant "there is NO hope for this franchise"..something I can relate to!:pray:

[HometownGal]

Or maybe they meant "there is NO hope for this franchise"..something I can relate to!:pray:

:lol: I know, you poor guy. Personally, I think the Bungles would be a much better and more confident team if they got rid of both Bing and Bong and their egos and childish horseshit.

[Craic]

The ironic thing is by the gal's own admission she never told Ben, no, never told him to stop, or offered any any resistance, physical or otherwise. She said, "I'm not sure we should be doing this.", by that standard I might have commited rape several times in my younger days, only to have the gal make me breakfast the next morning.
Do we REALLY have to go through this again? Yes, there are legal precedents where having sex with a drunk girl that you helped get drunk is rape, regardless of "permission". Agree or disagree it doesn't matter. That is the law.

Here, we have no idea, never did, never will. May I suggest we just let it go?

[Craic]

Just thought I'd share this

So when this was going on, we told my mom the Browns fans are chanting No Means No, and she's like, "Why, cuz the Steelers are making the Browns their bitch??"

LMAO :tt02:
That really is hilarious.

[UltimateBengal]

:lol: I know, you poor guy. Personally, I think the Bungles would be a much better and more confident team if they got rid of both Bing and Bong and their egos and childish horseshit.

I think Carson is thinking the same thing!!!!

[Dino 6 Rings]

Just thought I'd share this

So when this was going on, we told my mom the Browns fans are chanting No Means No, and she's like, "Why, cuz the Steelers are making the Browns their bitch??"

LMAO :tt02:

HA HA HA HA HA! The Browns were totally PIMPED OUT today too! Where is my money BIATCH!!!!

[HollywoodSteel]

Do we REALLY have to go through this again? Yes, there are legal precedents where having sex with a drunk girl that you helped get drunk is rape, regardless of "permission". Agree or disagree it doesn't matter. That is the law.

Here, we have no idea, never did, never will. May I suggest we just let it go?

What if Ben was drunk as well, and she encouraged him to take a few drinks? Does that mean she raped him too? Offsetting rapes? :noidea:

Okay, we can let it go now. :tt02:

[zulater]

Do we REALLY have to go through this again? Yes, there are legal precedents where having sex with a drunk girl that you helped get drunk is rape, regardless of "permission". Agree or disagree it doesn't matter. That is the law.

Here, we have no idea, never did, never will. May I suggest we just let it go?

I'll let it go when I want to Preach. No offense, but you look at it your way, I'll look at it mine, and to my way of thinking Ben didn't get away with a crime, so I think I'll point that out when the opportunity presents itself, thanks all the same.

To which...

The facts in evidence clearly suggest no rape occured. As long as the public misperception, that Ben got away with a felony remains, I'll continue to point out truths that support him. As to the assertion the girl said no, by her own account, she clearly didn't. Thus the chant is total bullshit.

[Wallace108]

What if Ben was drunk as well, and she encouraged him to take a few drinks? Does that mean she raped him too? Offsetting rapes?

It's probably wrong to laugh at that ... but I can't help it. :sofunny:

[HollywoodSteel]

It's probably wrong to laugh at that ... but I can't help it. :sofunny:

It's cool. We can root for the Steelers from hell together.

[zulater]

It's cool. We can root for the Steelers from hell together.

Save me a seat. :chuckle:

[7SteelGal43]

:lol: :thumbsup:

Or - it could mean NO fans left in the stadium by the middle of the third quarter. :heh:

Oh, I beg to differ, HTG. There were still many fans left in the stadium right up til the end of the game.


















course, they were all waving Terrible Towels, but still..... :wink02:

by the way, a very happy new year to you, too :hug:

[HollywoodSteel]

Save me a seat. :chuckle:

The great thing about hell is we won't even have to keep it warm for you.

[Wallace108]

The great thing about hell is we won't even have to keep it warm for you.

Just remember to bring lots of ice. You know .... for the beer.

[steelerdude15]

Just remember to bring lots of ice. You know .... for the beer.
:doh2:
I hate the damn chant.

[BuddhaBus]

:doh2:
I hate the damn chant.

Agreed. When I was at the Ravens/Steelers game at M&T, it was annoying as hell. Some of the fucktards were actually still chanting it after they lost! Nippleheads... the lot of 'em.

[Craic]

I'll let it go when I want to Preach. No offense, but you look at it your way, I'll look at it mine, and to my way of thinking Ben didn't get away with a crime, so I think I'll point that out when the opportunity presents itself, thanks all the same.

To which...

The facts in evidence clearly suggest no rape occured. As long as the public misperception, that Ben got away with a felony remains, I'll continue to point out truths that support him. As to the assertion the girl said no, by her own account, she clearly didn't. Thus the chant is total bullshit.

My point however, is that it is over. A season has now passed. The best thing to do for this ENTIRE TEAM, ITS FANBASE, BEN, and THIS BOARD, is to let it pass. If some idiot in orange wants to mock rape, let them. That is exactly what they are doing. Using a serious issue, and mocking it in the hopes of rattling someone who's name, rightly or wrongly, has been attached to it. When we come back on this board and start talking about it again, the accomplish what they were intending to do; not let Ben, the organization, or the fanbase move on. Why give them that much power over us and this board?

[vasteeler]

What if Ben was drunk as well, and she encouraged him to take a few drinks? Does that mean she raped him too? Offsetting rapes? :noidea:

Okay, we can let it go now. :tt02:

:chuckle:

[LLT]

They were chanting this right before Ben threw the first TD to Wallace. Karma's a bitch.

"NO MEANS NO.....NO MEANS NO....NO MEANS....wtf?.....are you serious???....NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[CPanther95]

It wasn't for Ben, it was an attempt to keep Browns fans from anally violating their own within the dog pound.

[kittenfantastico76]

And sometimes, just sometimes no means YES! OK not really but in this case your mom's joke gave me a huge laugh and I yelled YES! Out loud!

[st33lersguy]

The chant means "No screwing the fans means no screwing the fans"

[kittenfantastico76]

The ironic thing is by the gal's own admission she never told Ben, no, never told him to stop, or offered any any resistance, physical or otherwise. She said, "I'm not sure we should be doing this.", by that standard I might have commited rape several times in my younger days, only to have the gal make me breakfast the next morning.

You may have been guilty of rape, and I may have been a victim if that is all she said to him. I am sure I uttered the words "I'm not sure we should be doing this." to at least one guy in my past. I don't want to drag up the Ben drama again but this made me chuckle a lot thinking about this.

[steeldawg]

Do we REALLY have to go through this again? Yes, there are legal precedents where having sex with a drunk girl that you helped get drunk is rape, regardless of "permission". Agree or disagree it doesn't matter. That is the law.

Here, we have no idea, never did, never will. May I suggest we just let it go?

This is not the law, what are you talking about?

[Craic]

(To borrow from another thread--and with the knowledge that I am far below Merchant in my abilities here-- I still believe a true explanation of the chant is due).


http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20101226/capt.b23227052f424a99a46e3de7a63ec215-b23227052f424a99a46e3de7a63ec215-0.jpg?x=400&y=300&q=85&sig=kPyZfiS0QlYNXH160_tWZA--

Alright. We got the ball. First drive. No Ints. No Ints. Come on Browns.



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sIeIekVWUHE/TOvvdR06KRI/AAAAAAAAAJM/pbpEMXmusI0/s320/colt-mccoy-qb-of-the-cleveland-browns-181.png

Sure hope this guy doesn't show up.




http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/201101/dianasteelers010211_02_330.jpg

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


http://www.news-herald.com/content/articles/2010/09/20/news/nh30581251.jpg

Wha...... Huh?? Interception AGAIN!!! We said NO INTS.





http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dbcYu3yUGos/0.jpg

Wow, why does our defense look so childlike against them? NO BIG PLAYS NO BIG PLAYS!!!!




http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/ap/d3/fullj.3c0823e06a43f4ed11fd0042894916e0/ap-b842f891fbc5451f9aea68c3092b0f9a.jpg

Wow- is it going to be this easy against the Browns all day???? This is like playing against a Peewee team!


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJnoq8MTMGG9cJiYekywk09y_B8SQaK-AAOwRD_U5cu0lC-Q_V5w (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.roemerphotoblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/106-Cleveland-Browns-Fan1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.roemerphotoblog.com/photos-from-the-packers-vs-browns-nfl-football-game/&usg=__4mZNdcqBshZNapNIt_dejsDYKPM=&h=530&w=350&sz=107&hl=en&start=54&sig2=ptHa1p31yM94ZtGYzQincg&zoom=1&tbnid=jDfDhVuHMiUnEM:&tbnh=197&tbnw=144&ei=N0YiTayvOIq2sAPM1NTEAg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCleveland%2BBrowns%2Bfans%26um%3D1%26 hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=461&vpy=492&dur=6705&hovh=276&hovw=182&tx=95&ty=129&oei=MUYiTbeGGoL0tgOOusCGCg&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:54)
I dressed like a 16 year old ho for this?!?!?!?




-----a quarter has passed, it is now second quarter.


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIpFlm8gvYUBkEYr6qgQo60pkiowGM3 hpO669XmVkf_ITZpS3h9g (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/sam-creque-cold-browns-fanjpg-fef4e410f6c0672e_large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/12/cleveland_browns_fans_endure_s.html&usg=__Pgr7tsfTdCJwFSOEFSM_AdJJqCc=&h=664&w=432&sz=68&hl=en&start=54&sig2=Oyg3PhUvgxBKAWvON5TEhQ&zoom=1&tbnid=lGkJG7cSscWapM:&tbnh=197&tbnw=144&ei=qUYiTfrbJ43GsAPf6IHlAQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCleveland%2BBrowns%2Bfans%26um%3D1%26 hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=618&vpy=214&dur=3881&hovh=278&hovw=181&tx=92&ty=174&oei=MUYiTbeGGoL0tgOOusCGCg&esq=5&page=2&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:30,s:54)
I can't even show my face. COME ON. NO INTS.


http://www.morningjournal.com/content/articles/2011/01/03/sports/doc4d20f1a4f39e12498952278.jpg
Colt Mccoy: How did he get THAT BALL?
Clark: You threw it right to me you idiot.



http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTog3vC_rGoC3oNo7sUypyf2tJsJkOBY 897Ud99JRZRhDBQtKPw (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_s1uphj6Xnlc/TJbq_2hiQfI/AAAAAAAAACU/mpkNRIA5RwQ/s1600/eric-mangini-ap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dawgscooper.net/2010_09_01_archive.html&usg=__sNYHCBRE99I8KnfdGVSNFFD4fCQ=&h=405&w=298&sz=37&hl=en&start=0&sig2=Lj4PPi4-jZoqkeO5-jy5JA&zoom=1&tbnid=x7iAYBk8YD8_2M:&tbnh=138&tbnw=100&ei=BUsiTZHmI4SWsgPQ3LDUDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBrowns%2Bfans%2Bmangini%26um%3D1%26hl %3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=489&vpy=374&dur=865&hovh=138&hovw=102&tx=76&ty=129&oei=50oiTZviFoOisQO4sIyaCg&esq=11&page=1&ndsp=51&ved=1t:429,r:32,s:0)
Are you TRYING to get me fired? Are you all even men???



http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/11/18/alg_resize_browns_fans.jpg

Well, if length is any determination....



http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuCB38CRFcquBQ_Z1azc5xzqpBxLsLd TNyYYw57zshtn5mt-dsiA (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://gridironfans.com/forums/attachments/latest-nfl-headlines/15503d1292145432-browns-coach-eric-mangini-needs-strong-finish-mangini.png&imgrefurl=http://gridironfans.com/forums/latest-nfl-headlines/147597-browns-coach-eric-mangini-needs-strong-finish.html&usg=__i8Sev9VXYrW9qGX1q9yhPxhRecI=&h=230&w=400&sz=135&hl=en&start=191&sig2=UBFm3LF_CNNySR5Y5ZBjAA&zoom=1&tbnid=GExEaEBt6AD1SM:&tbnh=167&tbnw=211&ei=c0siTYOpNZS6sQOEr4igCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBrowns%2Bfans%2Bmangini%26um%3D1%26hl %3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=684&vpy=442&dur=615&hovh=168&hovw=291&tx=136&ty=51&oei=50oiTZviFoOisQO4sIyaCg&esq=15&page=6&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:20,s:191)

NOT HERE PEOPLE... PLEASE!



http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRik6QfPKD7sW3ZLnehPjz7rjOcsX_3g eU0P6HwCQ9RVbV1GvUK (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media.cleveland.com/sportsnetwork_impact/photo/eric-mangini-092809jpg-2be947bddb7deba7_medium.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cleveland.com/sportsnetwork/index.ssf/2009/09/cleveland_sports_blog_network_15.html&usg=__xfxwOxh8Cq5PmA5Rq9r21lBxA50=&h=165&w=240&sz=78&hl=en&start=121&sig2=EuzAbi7xHZS4wfwXlT_Rtw&zoom=1&tbnid=6oERw9Aa3x31RM:&tbnh=132&tbnw=192&ei=pUsiTdiVG5OisAPqv4ykCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBrowns%2Bfans%2Bmangini%26um%3D1%26hl %3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=398&vpy=509&dur=18&hovh=132&hovw=192&tx=85&ty=49&oei=50oiTZviFoOisQO4sIyaCg&esq=17&page=4&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:121)

Ok, back on track. NO INTS COLT. YOU HEAR ME!



http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=media%2Fapphoto%2F273577e5-dbe2-4273-a754-0c80e61b44c5.jpg&w=103&h=127 (http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/photos?gameId=310102005&photoId=1039910)

Oh this isn't good, might as well throw it.


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQV6Lm7trvm9_1Jld_L1Qc7BNF4h4_0t UqMF5Y_nd_IAer4H0T2hA (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.steelersgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/mccoy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.steelersgab.com/2010/10/12/are-you-ready-for-colt-mccoy/&usg=__Ka-CEMY5yiptkuclEqDpgDNHDG8=&h=476&w=380&sz=40&hl=en&start=0&sig2=UFNSwIHCWHLV1u8Qp-pJ5Q&zoom=1&tbnid=3j13Yz8nyVteIM:&tbnh=144&tbnw=114&ei=ekgiTezmHY6qsAPt17mQCw&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBrowns%2BSteelers%2BInterception%2B20 10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=474&vpy=517&dur=8157&hovh=251&hovw=201&tx=100&ty=139&oei=WEgiTcvaN5C8sQO8obiQCg&esq=6&page=1&ndsp=52&ved=1t:429,r:43,s:0)

oops.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTH2Gu8dhl8IkrXhpojOLsBR1_IUJCsG bQAIOI9jtuZXQhg_lbn (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://hardknoxsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Cleveland-Browns-fans.jpg&imgrefurl=http://hardknoxsports.com/nfl/browns-owner-meet-protestors/&usg=__XMDs_WSFmx2HMR3G3St7CnVS2x0=&h=343&w=400&sz=32&hl=en&start=0&sig2=7Yjs2qpy_DpF_Inf6O8uBg&zoom=1&tbnid=mjVm7MYT7VjWkM:&tbnh=165&tbnw=188&ei=8k0iTYadDYP2swPcmJiOCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbrowns%2Bfans%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa fe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=508&vpy=130&dur=563&hovh=205&hovw=238&tx=93&ty=83&oei=8k0iTYadDYP2swPcmJiOCg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0)

We said, NO INTS. NO MEANS NO.


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPEzM3RWxS23JvNd32BXQ2a4xuudbkx N-bdwaQmt9i1ebKF6QA (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/depressed-browns-fan.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2009/02/steelers-super-bowl-43-much-needed-reality-check/&usg=__3_KX3VeW_XLcR6mMYgTNzPhoMB0=&h=296&w=380&sz=90&hl=en&start=0&sig2=TRaUku2-woaZX7vnhtySZw&zoom=1&tbnid=lD8RLY7Zq1GhmM:&tbnh=165&tbnw=205&ei=8k0iTYadDYP2swPcmJiOCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbrowns%2Bfans%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa fe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1425&vpy=127&dur=20&hovh=198&hovw=254&tx=108&ty=127&oei=8k0iTYadDYP2swPcmJiOCg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0)

NO MEANS NO. NO INTS-- NOT THREE


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmslTlL9cPwJbIj3GHYzaUjxONv365N jUlnNj9XBqmfU6ScRbQ4Q (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dashright93berlin.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/miserable-browns-fan1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dashright93berlin.com/2010/08/&usg=__D9NKJtc4N0XHrCVsza2UDXSZiko=&h=361&w=550&sz=53&hl=en&start=0&sig2=QF2s7PjLXmpXPoYhSx0u-w&zoom=1&tbnid=F2X3cg9HAlHsAM:&tbnh=138&tbnw=211&ei=8k0iTYadDYP2swPcmJiOCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbrowns%2Bfans%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa fe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1610&vpy=142&dur=559&hovh=180&hovw=274&tx=140&ty=64&oei=8k0iTYadDYP2swPcmJiOCg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0)

Come on! There was no place to throw that ball. NO MEANS NO COLT!



http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMeFaKmbBv9OjM3o7Cj8tE3K7lDrWgs O5uGjpQG6nyyK6JtQis (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/76062606.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26c%3DIWSAsset%26k%3D2%26d%3D 77BFBA49EF87892102A727B1636DE2E613BE956D833F6A9306 868E0602C784AA270981978251CF77&imgrefurl=http://www.life.com/image/76062606&usg=__4iIpw4NKZl9pS-3WEDLZM5UZa3A=&h=594&w=396&sz=32&hl=en&start=136&sig2=oASSQdrKvL_ZiDwOmjjdWg&zoom=1&tbnid=Z5YB0lGo3nzokM:&tbnh=180&tbnw=120&ei=lU4iTe68JIiqsAOXzfimDw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbrowns%2Bfans%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa fe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=733&vpy=112&dur=738&hovh=198&hovw=132&tx=86&ty=128&oei=8k0iTYadDYP2swPcmJiOCg&esq=7&page=5&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:136)

Look at me! I am doing an imitation of Colt McCoy right now. lalala you can't here me.

[Craic]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFRegRFgT0bWUShy7iUeQlqOuHxZ_4C v3ze-o5zbEaR8pkm_n9 (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn2.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/645166/73001_browns_steelers_football.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2010/10/18/1759952/steelers-28-browns-10-week-6-gameball-goes-to&usg=__lvI1u4JhoMo1M8NM0Le0m0Z_M0A=&h=300&w=450&sz=26&hl=en&start=0&sig2=LUPdb1tObSD3iHtTNY93gw&zoom=1&tbnid=BC18yF9PfFFa-M:&tbnh=133&tbnw=180&ei=TUgiTZLTIJS6sAPwwLWTCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBrowns%2BSteelers%2BInterception%26um %3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=698&vpy=335&dur=1036&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=157&ty=95&oei=TUgiTZLTIJS6sAPwwLWTCg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=54&ved=1t:429,r:47,s:0)

Dang, Hines, I thought they were just being classless towards me.
Well, Ben, there are a few here that might be....


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsC62T0yZz_wb1UQhc1GZpFRSIW-jax75-yZH_-b3D3NkmUKC2vQ (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bhamsteelers.com/resources/_wsb_551x441_james_harrison_slams_browns_fan.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bhamsteelers.com/1.html&usg=__8e7JJB5npoRY4skqdTJ-0J1hunc=&h=441&w=551&sz=125&hl=en&start=159&sig2=YrnGzO9TsJlafa6IwRrxYw&zoom=1&tbnid=sHvVt9Nm5W9SxM:&tbnh=171&tbnw=227&ei=OE8iTa-PJpOssAPex7iwAg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHines%2BWard%2Bbrowns%26um%3D1%26hl%3 Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=156&vpy=253&dur=2408&hovh=201&hovw=251&tx=95&ty=86&oei=E08iTY3pFJPCsAOoz8STCg&esq=7&page=5&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:159)

Don't worry Ben, I'll take care of those Classless ones.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_s3hSMhIZAgmXvKfoWsLFWePsAPpOw 6VW5ItVHUWGnfegQusKPQ (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.catsandbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/mike_tomlin-pointing.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.catsandbeer.com/sports/mike-tomlins-beard&usg=__Kg7pApcOgHQ51Qg_811uajpxy9k=&h=320&w=400&sz=27&hl=en&start=0&sig2=r5_KS6Y8Ct9w4rTEarO8Ag&zoom=1&tbnid=2VtSKgZwebv1uM:&tbnh=168&tbnw=210&ei=e08iTd7KJYjSsAPIz6SZCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMike%2BTomlin%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa fe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=635&vpy=127&dur=3046&hovh=201&hovw=251&tx=106&ty=76&oei=e08iTd7KJYjSsAPIz6SZCg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=34&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0)

Hey Harrison, you da man!



00:00 GAME OVER

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0ced5DU5t5exZ/x350.jpg

Hey Colt, when the fans yell no, you probably shouldn't throw the pass. No Means No.



http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZ3z0J0-pVax-qzpINtk0m9h8jqqlhTNYhvT02Vx2AoId6cchB (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dlcache.indiatimes.com/imageserve/0gsJ1yD7Lnc7C/x350.jpg&imgrefurl=http://oneclick.indiatimes.com/photo/0gsJ1yD7Lnc7C%3Fq%3DColt%2BMcCoy&usg=__2-JA-Cwkcb--WXOAN6e-zBsnmLk=&h=350&w=335&sz=34&hl=en&start=347&sig2=4T7bUcGDhD4w6oPdjhvilw&zoom=1&tbnid=QPjUq1EuAXbFCM:&tbnh=163&tbnw=156&ei=VlAiTar5EpO6sAOir7GsBA&prev=/images%3Fq%3DColt%2BMccoy%2BBrowns%26um%3D1%26hl%3 Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=571&vpy=395&dur=680&hovh=225&hovw=216&tx=90&ty=93&oei=OlAiTYaAIZOssAO_idWMCg&esq=10&page=10&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:347)

So THAT is what they meant. Well, least I got my coach fired.



Browns President Mike Holmgren press conference 1-3-11
(Opening statement)- “Good afternoon everybody. As you know, we are going to make a change with the head coach. I had a chance to meet with Eric (Mangini) this morning. We had a very good but tough conversation. It’s difficult to say the least, but I want to thank him publicly. He and his family for everything they have done as far as the football organization is concerned and also the community. They are wonderful people and I wish them nothing but the best. Our conversation, I think we were very honest with one another. We have established a good relationship and that’s what made it even more difficult. We will begin a search for a new coach immediately. We’ve started the ball rolling a little bit today already. I am not locking myself into any timetable for this. My goal is to find exactly the right person for the job of Head Coach of the Cleveland Browns and who can eventually someday lead us to the championship. That is my only goal.”

[stillers4me]

:applaudit:


(http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.roemerphotoblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/106-Cleveland-Browns-Fan1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.roemerphotoblog.com/photos-from-the-packers-vs-browns-nfl-football-game/&usg=__4mZNdcqBshZNapNIt_dejsDYKPM=&h=530&w=350&sz=107&hl=en&start=54&sig2=ptHa1p31yM94ZtGYzQincg&zoom=1&tbnid=jDfDhVuHMiUnEM:&tbnh=197&tbnw=144&ei=N0YiTayvOIq2sAPM1NTEAg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCleveland%2BBrowns%2Bfans%26um%3D1%26 hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=461&vpy=492&dur=6705&hovh=276&hovw=182&tx=95&ty=129&oei=MUYiTbeGGoL0tgOOusCGCg&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:54)http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJnoq8MTMGG9cJiYekywk09y_B8SQaK-AAOwRD_U5cu0lC-Q_V5w (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.roemerphotoblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/106-Cleveland-Browns-Fan1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.roemerphotoblog.com/photos-from-the-packers-vs-browns-nfl-football-game/&usg=__4mZNdcqBshZNapNIt_dejsDYKPM=&h=530&w=350&sz=107&hl=en&start=54&sig2=ptHa1p31yM94ZtGYzQincg&zoom=1&tbnid=jDfDhVuHMiUnEM:&tbnh=197&tbnw=144&ei=N0YiTayvOIq2sAPM1NTEAg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCleveland%2BBrowns%2Bfans%26um%3D1%26 hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=461&vpy=492&dur=6705&hovh=276&hovw=182&tx=95&ty=129&oei=MUYiTbeGGoL0tgOOusCGCg&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:54)
I dressed like a 16 year old ho for this?!?!?!?
(http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.roemerphotoblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/106-Cleveland-Browns-Fan1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.roemerphotoblog.com/photos-from-the-packers-vs-browns-nfl-football-game/&usg=__4mZNdcqBshZNapNIt_dejsDYKPM=&h=530&w=350&sz=107&hl=en&start=54&sig2=ptHa1p31yM94ZtGYzQincg&zoom=1&tbnid=jDfDhVuHMiUnEM:&tbnh=197&tbnw=144&ei=N0YiTayvOIq2sAPM1NTEAg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCleveland%2BBrowns%2Bfans%26um%3D1%26 hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D859%26tbs%3Disch: 1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=461&vpy=492&dur=6705&hovh=276&hovw=182&tx=95&ty=129&oei=MUYiTbeGGoL0tgOOusCGCg&esq=2&page=2&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:54)

[Kittyfish]

Now, Preacher, that is a masterpiece! I'm sure that's just exactly what the chant meant - it makes as much sense as anything else. Well done - I tip my hat to you, sir.

[Craic]

This is not the law, what are you talking about?

Wisconsin:
". . . state law that puts alcohol on a par with date-rape drugs as an aggravating factor in certain sexual assaults. The change, long sought by rape- victim advocates in Wisconsin, means that victims who are very drunk during a sexual encounter can be judged incapable of giving consent, triggering a possible second-degree sexual assault charge. Prior to the change, which took effect in June, a victim who had been drinking typically had to be unconscious to be deemed incapable of consenting to sex." This is now law 940.225 (C) M of the Wis. state law.
[/QUOTE]

California Penal Code 261a (3)


261. (a) Rape is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a
person not the spouse of the perpetrator, under any of the following
circumstances:

(3) Where a person is prevented from resisting by any intoxicating
or anesthetic substance, or any controlled substance, and this
condition was known, or reasonably should have been known by the
accused.

This does not mean the person was passed out. That element is covered in section 4 under "unconsciousness" meaning "incapable of resisted because the victim meets one of the following conditions..." Also, a person doesn't have to resist in order for it to be rape. See here (http://www.shouselaw.com/rape.html)a defense attorney stating "to intoxicated to give consent". and the issue of resistance.

Washington State/Indiana, and probably a few more states all say this:

Definition of incapacity
(4) "Mental incapacity" is that condition existing at the time of the offense which prevents a person from understanding the nature or consequences of the act of sexual intercourse whether that condition is produced by illness, defect, the influence of a substance or from some other cause.

It is a second degree rape when:
(1) A person is guilty of rape in the second degree when, under circumstances not constituting rape in the first degree, the person engages in sexual intercourse with another person:

(a) By forcible compulsion;

(b) When the victim is incapable of consent by reason of being physically helpless or mentally incapacitated;


by the way, Ball State University has a very specific expression concerning what this law means:
People under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs are absolutely incapable of giving sexual consent. Even if the person says "yes", it is still rape if sexual activity continues while that person is under the influence
Ball State
http://cms.bsu.edu/About/AdministrativeOffices/HealthEducation/HealthTopics/SexualResponsibility/SexualAssaultandRape.aspx

Institutions of that size do not put out public legal advice without their lawyers checking it-or they can be sued for false legal advice, ESPECIALLY in this kind of situation.



I am not going to spend the rest of the night looking up state laws. But it is quite clear, that in many states, to have sex with someone who is drunk, either is, or may be considered rape/sexual assault.

[zulater]

The evidence did not support a charge of rape, diminished capacity or otherwise Preach. Thus he wasn't charged. Please don't paint Ben with that brush. He made mistakes, he was going down the wrong path, what happened in Georgia was a wake up call, not felonious assualt.

[Craic]

The evidence did not support a charge of rape, diminished capacity or otherwise Preach. Thus he wasn't charged. Please don't paint Ben with that brush. He made mistakes, he was going down the wrong path, what happened in Georgia was a wake up call, not felonious assualt.
Zu, I think maybe you should read the context of the comments. I was not talking about Ben in any way shape or form in this post. Rather, that Steeldawg is wrong. There ARE laws concerning alcohol and sex, and the ability to get permission.

[steelerdude15]

There ARE laws concerning alcohol and sex, and the ability to get permission.
There are here in Maryland. I can't find the documentation, but yes the law states that if a woman is intoxicated and has sex with a man, it was against her will because she wasn't in a proper state of mind to make the decision.

[Craic]

There are here in Maryland. I can't find the documentation, but yes the law states that if a woman is intoxicated and has sex with a man, it was against her will because she wasn't in a proper state of mind to make the decision.

Here it is, Maryland Criminal Law 3-301 Definitions.

(c) Mentally incapacitated individual.- "Mentally incapacitated individual" means an individual who, because of the influence of a drug, narcotic, or intoxicating substance, or because of an act committed on the individual without the individual's consent or awareness, is rendered substantially incapable of:
(1) appraising the nature of the individual's conduct; or
(2) resisting vaginal intercourse, a sexual act, or sexual contact.

A person guilty of this may be charged with Rape in the 2nd degree:
(a) Prohibited.- A person may not engage in vaginal intercourse with another






(1) by force, or the threat of force, without the consent of the other;








(2) if the victim is a mentally defective individual, a mentally incapacitated individual, or a physically helpless individual, and the person performing the act knows or reasonably should know that the victim is a mentally defective individual, a mentally incapacitated individual, or a physically helpless individual; . . .


Such a person, if convicted, will be in jail for a minimum of 15 years without parole.

[X-Terminator]

If they really started enforcing that law, there would be a lot of college students going to jail.

[LLT]

Just my two cents.

Georgia State law is sorts weird when it pertains to sex.

It is ILLEGAL in Georgia to consent to or be involved in oral sex....so in that regards it would seem that Georgia is very conservative concerning sex.

BUT...

Ben's situation doesnt fall under Georgia's Rape statutes but rather under Sexual Battery....and both statutes are vague at best.

The Rape statute states:

Rape.
(a) A person commits the offense of rape when he has carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will. Carnal knowledge in rape occurs when there is any penetration of the female sex organ by the male sex organ.

The key phrase there being "forcibly and against her will" There was no evidence or testimony that would indicate "force" in Ben's case.

However...the Sexual Battery statute says:

Sexual battery.
(a) For the purposes of this Code section, the term "intimate parts" means the primary genital area, anus, groin, inner thighs, or buttocks of a male or female and the breasts of a female.
(b) A person commits the offense of sexual battery when he intentionally makes physical contact with the intimate parts of the body of another person without the consent of that person.

This is what was being pursued against Ben...with the claim that the female could not consent due to intoxication. The district attorney could not make that stick for two reasons.

1) Testimony on the part of the alleged victim in which she admits to being cognizant enough to say that "this may not be a good idea".
2) Conflicting documented testimony by the alleged victim and by witnesses, that would have be torn apart under cross examination in court.

This was why the District Attorney was angry. Due to the letter of the law..Ben was not quilty in the eyes of the State of Georgia. Even though a resonable person may conclude that he was purchasing alcohol for her with the intent to have sex, her own testimony and the testimony of specific witnesses, placed enough doubt on the situation so as put the act outside of the realm rape or sexual battery.

I am just offering the facts in the name of clarification.

Personally I think taking the "Rich athlete gets off on a rape charge" is the intellectually easy way out. Its probably more accurate to say that if Ben would have been just another college student...no charges would have been filed at all. I am willing to bet that Ben and the alleged victim were not the only two intoxicated young people who had sex that night in Miledgeville....and regretted it the next morning. We cant have it both ways...either its RAPE everytime a drunk couple have sex...or it isnt.

[Craic]

If they really started enforcing that law, there would be a lot of college students going to jail.

Yep. Actually, I think that is exactly why these laws have started popping up on the books. Most of them are somewhat new.

[Craic]

Just my two cents.


Actually LLT, the conversation (at least as far as my posts went) was in direct response to Steeldawg. It has nothing to do with Ben anymore. It is just the fact that in many states in this country, it can still be considered rape if a woman says yes, if she is drunk. That is all I was arguing.

As I said about Ben, Don't know, Don't wanna know. I wasn't there.

[LLT]

Actually LLT, the conversation (at least as far as my posts went) was in direct response to Steeldawg. It has nothing to do with Ben anymore. It is just the fact that in many states in this country, it can still be considered rape if a woman says yes, if she is drunk. That is all I was arguing.

As I said about Ben, Don't know, Don't wanna know. I wasn't there.

I understand...I wasnt referring to your post.

I was just adding to the conversation in regards to Georgia law...since that is where it happened. Appreciate your thoughts on the matter and I think that we both agree that what Ben did was ethically and morally wrong....and under the right circumstances and with tighter testimony...potentially illegal.

[Craic]

I understand...I wasnt referring to your post.

I was just adding to the conversation in regards to Georgia law...since that is where it happened. Appreciate your thoughts on the matter and I think that we both agree that what Ben did was ethically and morally wrong....and under the right circumstances and with tighter testimony...potentially illegal.

:thumbsup: no prob... and you are exactly right.

Now with that said..




Would anyone have a problem if I reposted THIS (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/5378-The-quot-No-Means-No-quot-Chant?p=119081&viewfull=1#post119081)in the "What really happens in the huddle" thread?

[zulater]

I understand...I wasnt referring to your post.

I was just adding to the conversation in regards to Georgia law...since that is where it happened. Appreciate your thoughts on the matter and I think that we both agree that what Ben did was ethically and morally wrong....and under the right circumstances and with tighter testimony...potentially illegal.

Well geez, we've all done something ethically or morally flawed in our life at one point or other, but that doesn't add up to felony that should put us away for 20 years does it? And why the hell doesn't a woman bear any responsability for having sex in a lessened condition if she in fact knowingly and willingly was the one that put herself in that state? I measn we know Miss DTF was having jello shots with her friends and drinking in multiple establishements on a false i.d. before she ever met Ben, so where's her culpability? She was 20, not 12. We have men and woman in this country at that age and younger that are considered responsible and mature enough to die for their country on foreign soil, yet here were supposed to beleive this "poor little girl" is too young and dumb to understand what's going on around her? :frusty:

I'm sorry, but it's all bullshit, Ben was only trying to get a little strange on his birthday, been there, done that. The girls was more than willing until her friends guilted her after the fact into thinking she had been done wrong, and rather than admit that she was a willing participant, she decided to try to destroy man's life. Sadly this isn't an uncommon practice for Sorority sisters with buyers remorse after the fact. But in this case, Ben and his lawyers were smart enough to get in front of the case and keep a lid on the situation.

[LLT]

Well geez, we've all done something ethically or morally flawed in our life at one point or other, but that doesn't add up to felony that should put us away for 20 years does it?

No one said it did. But make no mistake...Your or my ability to stay withing the confines of morality is irrelevant.


And why the hell doesn't a woman bear any responsability for having sex in a lessened condition if she in fact knowingly and willingly was the one that put herself in that state?

Obviously you missed the point...she DID bear some of responsibility under Georgia law...which is why Ben was exonerated.



She was 20, not 12. We have men and woman in this country at that age and younger that are considered responsible and mature enough to die for their country on foreign soil, yet here were supposed to beleive this "poor little girl" is too young and dumb to understand what's going on around her?

That is a poor argument. Age and military service has no bearing on how alcohol affects people. She was not "vulnerable" because she was 20...but rather because she was intoxicated. Note that I said she was "vulnerable"...that does NOT mean she was not jointly responsible. She might indeed be young and dumb...she might be a manipulative gold digger...most likely she is just another college aged female who regreted her decision the next morning. None of those have anything to do with the soldiers in Iraq.


I'm sorry, but it's all bullshit, Ben was only trying to get a little strange on his birthday, been there, done that. The girls was more than willing until her friends guilted her after the fact into thinking she had been done wrong, and rather than admit that she was a willing participant, she decided to try to destroy man's life.

Not only do I agree with you...So did the state of Georgia. Legally Ben did nothing more than buy alcohol for a minor...Ethically he was a grown man in a colllege bar who forgot that his money makes him a target. Very poor judgment.


Sadly this isn't an uncommon practice for Sorority sisters with buyers remorse after the fact.
I said as much.


But in this case, Ben and his lawyers were smart enough to get in front of the case and keep a lid on the situation
I t had less to do with Ben's lawyer than it did with the Georgia law and conflicting testimony.

[steeldawg]

this is the wisconsin law:

Under Wisconsin laws, a person is prohibited from purposely having sexual contact or sexual intercourse with a person who is unconscious, or under the influence of an intoxicant to such a degree that the person is incapable of giving consent. Purposely here has the meaning that the actor had actual knowledge that the person was intoxicated and was unable to give consent and intended to have sexual intercourse or sexual contact with that person while the person was unable to consent.

The law is to protect a person who is to drunk to be able to consent. It does not mean a girl can to a bar partying go have sex , wake up the next day regret what she did and have the guy thrown in jail for rape. The person Committing the assault what have to knowingly have intercourse with a person who is unable to consent. HAVING SEX WITH SOMEONE WHO IS INTOXICATED IS NOT RAPE!!!

[zulater]

this is the wisconsin law:

Under Wisconsin laws, a person is prohibited from purposely having sexual contact or sexual intercourse with a person who is unconscious, or under the influence of an intoxicant to such a degree that the person is incapable of giving consent. Purposely here has the meaning that the actor had actual knowledge that the person was intoxicated and was unable to give consent and intended to have sexual intercourse or sexual contact with that person while the person was unable to consent.

The law is to protect a person who is to drunk to be able to consent. It does not mean a girl can to a bar partying go have sex , wake up the next day regret what she did and have the guy thrown in jail for rape.

That would be the law of common sense. Which there's way too little of in this world.

[steeldawg]

That would be the law of common sense. Which there's way too little of in this world.

Well by their interpretation of the law Ben was also assaulted.

[steeldawg]

And the why not use that defense in all crimes robbery, murder, DUI. "Sorry I was drunk didnt know what i was doing".

[zulater]

LLT, I think we're largely on the same page, but where I seperated from you is this sentencde.


I think that we both agree that what Ben did was ethically and morally wrong.... .

Sorry, but I don't think a just turned 28 year old single man trying to have consentual sex with a college girl is ethically wrong. Morally? I suppose a little, if we're to go by our old Sunday school teaching that any sex outside of ,marriage is morally wrong, but to me, the fact that he was single is enough to make his moral judgement acceptable in this case.


and under the right circumstances and with tighter testimony...potentially illegal


Now as to the last sentence, I'm sorry, but that's too loose an argument to be rationale relative to this situation, in my opinion. I mean by that standard any coupling of a male and female is potentially illegal.

It either was rape or it wasn't. And in this case, from all the evidence that I've seen, nothing close to rape can be proven, thus none of us have any business insinuating it.

[LLT]

LLT, I think we're largely on the same page, but where I seperated from you is this sentencde.



Sorry, but I don't think a just turned 28 year old single man trying to have consentual sex with a college girl is ethically wrong. Morally? I suppose a little, if we're to go by our old Sunday school teaching that any sex outside of ,marriage is morally wrong, but to me, the fact that he was single is enough to make his moral judgement acceptable in this case.




Now as to the last sentence, I'm sorry, but that's too loose an argument to be rationale relative to this situation, in my opinion. I mean by that standard any coupling of a male and female is potentially illegal.

It either was rape or it wasn't. And in this case, from all the evidence that I've seen, nothing close to rape can be proven, thus none of us have any business insinuating it.

What I meant...is that if she would have even "claimed" she said NO....and if her friends testimony backed her up tighter than it did...Ben would have been placed squarely in a situation that Georgia law deemed as illegal.

I believe beyond a doubt that if the group of girls had talked longer...or found a policeman later than they did....the stories would have changed, either intentially or non-intentially...to the point that Ben would have been in trouble.

Bottom line....What actually happens is rarely as relevent in a court of law as to what was "percieved" to have happened. In this case...perception could have been "proven" by multible testimonies, at the expense of the truth.

[steeldawg]

Cant seem to find the "drunk people rape law " in any of the georiga laws.

[steeldawg]

What I meant...is that if she would have even "claimed" she said NO....and if her friends testimony backed her up tighter than it did...Ben would have been placed squarely in a situation that Georgia law deemed as illegal.

I believe beyond a doubt that if the group of girls had talked longer...or found a policeman later than they did....the stories would have changed, either intentially or non-intentially...to the point that Ben would have been in trouble.

Bottom line....What actually happens is rarely as relevent in a court of law as to what was "percieved" to have happened. In this case...perception could have been "proven" by multible testimonies, at the expense of the truth.

I think you could could make any situation illegal with the right story.

[LLT]

I think you could could make any situation illegal with the right story.

Which is my point....if any situation can cross into the realm of illegal activity with the right testimony....We begin to see just how reckless Bens behavior was.

There are beautiful women across this nation who would gladly date Ben....he needs to be smarter, drink responsibly, and stay out of college bars.

There is an old daying in law enforcement that says three things will get public figures in trouble: 1) Beer 2) Broads 3) Bread.

Alcohol, women, and money......In Ben's case he combined all three. He is too much of a celebrity to play it that dumb.

[zulater]

I know I should probably just let it go, but it really pisses me off when people imply that Ben had some guilt or somehow asked for all the trouble he ended up in, or at least was almost in. He did what just about any normal single man would have done given the opportunity on the night of his birthday celebaration! There's just too much selective amnesia, and phoniness among us middle aged men, we forget some of the things we did teteered right on that same ledge, back in the day.

That's not to say Ben didn't need to make some radical adjustments in his lifestyle, or that he didn't need to improve his manners around the fairer sex.

But all in all imo he wasn't nearly the shit he's been portayed as. Or that his "entitled attitude" isn't something that's commonplace among gifted young men who have been placed on a pedastal for the majority of their life, and that many of us would succumb to the same temptations were we in those shoes.

Bottom line I'd wager Ben was and is a much better person than Brett Favre ever was. Wouldn't shock me if the same were true of bailout at birth Brady.

[LLT]

I know I should probably just let it go, but it really pisses me off when people imply that Ben had some guilt or somehow asked for all the trouble he ended up in, or at least was almost in. He did what just about any normal single man would have done given the opportunity on the night of his birthday celebaration! There's just too much selective amnesia, and phoniness among us middle aged men, we forget some of the things we did teteered right on that same ledge, back in the day.

That's not to say Ben didn't need to make some radical adjustments in his lifestyle, or that he didn't need to improve his manners around the fairer sex.

But all in all imo he wasn't nearly the shit he's been portayed as. Or that his "entitled attitude" isn't something that's commonplace among gifted young men who have been placed on a pedastal for the majority of their life, and that many of us would succumb to the same temptations were we in those shoes.

Bottom line I'd wager Ben was and is a much better person than Brett Favre ever was. Wouldn't shock me if the same were true of bailout at birth Brady.

Generally I agree with what you are saying...but you are all over the board and contradicting yourself in some regards.


That's not to say Ben didn't need to make some radical adjustments in his lifestyle, or that he didn't need to improve his manners around the fairer sex.

This is what most people are saying....his actions did NOT meet the standard for rape in the state of Georgia...but barring "some radical adjustments in his lifestyle"....Ben is going to be the potential target of any female he sleeps with that he doesnt have an actual realtionship with.

As I have said before...I think that both were drunk and equally to blame....Ben because, by his own admission, was caught up in the caricature of being a celebrity athlete...and the young lady because, she let alcohol exacerbate her desire to be associated with a celebrity athlete to the extent of drunken sex.

[LLT]

Cant seem to find the "drunk people rape law " in any of the georiga laws.

Really?...because I posted it word for word.

[zulater]

Personally I think drunk sex is fine between consenting adults. It's just that some people don't sober up right.

[LLT]

Personally I think drunk sex is fine between consenting adults. It's just that some people don't sober up right.

LOL!!!...thats because the girls that you and I slept with..didnt wake up with a guy that had 100 milion dollars!!!!

[siss]

As a women I feel like I have to defend these women. I feel like I should be on there side. But the truth is I am not. I am embarrassed that these women make these claims. Andrea McNulty waited a year, was online talking about how hot Ben is and wanted to "fix his TV" before it was broken. Im sorry I can't support that. It makes me sick that a women can make this claim against him.

As for Miss DTF, she is no victim in this case. She put herself in a bad situation as well. Im not saying her poor behavior invited her to be assaulted, but I do believe that she should have been smarter. They both should have. I do not believe that they had sex at all. The sad thing is that she acted like a groupie and Ben treated her like a groupie. They both should have never gone back to the bathroom. And the idea that she was dragged back there is laughable. The whole thing is laughable. They were both stupid, but Ben had more to lose.

Women use rape as an excuse for bad behavior all the time. Did you know that on most college campus's women will not get in trouble for underage drinking if they are sexually assaulted? Now in theory thats a good thing. She feels like she can come forward if something does happen to her. But sadly girls are using that claim to get out of being charged with under age drinking. It bothers me that women are not held accountable for there own behavior and its the guys fault automatically. It bothers me that women put themselves in these situation. And it bothers me that real victims of rape and assault are diminished and cheapened and people have this idea that rape is just rough sex. Its not, its so much more. Its a despicable crime and if women want to be taken seriously they have to stop using it as an excuse.

[zulater]

As a women I feel like I have to defend these women. I feel like I should be on there side. But the truth is I am not. I am embarrassed that these women make these claims. Andrea McNulty waited a year, was online talking about how hot Ben is and wanted to "fix his TV" before it was broken. Im sorry I can't support that. It makes me sick that a women can make this claim against him.

As for Miss DTF, she is no victim in this case. She put herself in a bad situation as well. Im not saying her poor behavior invited her to be assaulted, but I do believe that she should have been smarter. They both should have. I do not believe that they had sex at all. The sad thing is that she acted like a groupie and Ben treated her like a groupie. They both should have never gone back to the bathroom. And the idea that she was dragged back there is laughable. The whole thing is laughable. They were both stupid, but Ben had more to lose.

Women use rape as an excuse for bad behavior all the time. Did you know that on most college campus's women will not get in trouble for underage drinking if they are sexually assaulted? Now in theory thats a good thing. She feels like she can come forward if something does happen to her. But sadly girls are using that claim to get out of being charged with under age drinking. It bothers me that women are not held accountable for there own behavior and its the guys fault automatically. It bothers me that women put themselves in these situation. And it bothers me that real victims of rape and assault are diminished and cheapened and people have this idea that rape is just rough sex. Its not, its so much more. Its a despicable crime and if women want to be taken seriously they have to stop using it as an excuse.

:applaudit:

[LLT]

As a women I feel like I have to defend these women. I feel like I should be on there side. But the truth is I am not. I am embarrassed that these women make these claims. Andrea McNulty waited a year, was online talking about how hot Ben is and wanted to "fix his TV" before it was broken. Im sorry I can't support that. It makes me sick that a women can make this claim against him.

As for Miss DTF, she is no victim in this case. She put herself in a bad situation as well. Im not saying her poor behavior invited her to be assaulted, but I do believe that she should have been smarter. They both should have. I do not believe that they had sex at all. The sad thing is that she acted like a groupie and Ben treated her like a groupie. They both should have never gone back to the bathroom. And the idea that she was dragged back there is laughable. The whole thing is laughable. They were both stupid, but Ben had more to lose.

Women use rape as an excuse for bad behavior all the time. Did you know that on most college campus's women will not get in trouble for underage drinking if they are sexually assaulted? Now in theory thats a good thing. She feels like she can come forward if something does happen to her. But sadly girls are using that claim to get out of being charged with under age drinking. It bothers me that women are not held accountable for there own behavior and its the guys fault automatically. It bothers me that women put themselves in these situation. And it bothers me that real victims of rape and assault are diminished and cheapened and people have this idea that rape is just rough sex. Its not, its so much more. Its a despicable crime and if women want to be taken seriously they have to stop using it as an excuse.

Great post!

[SteelCityMan786]

this is the wisconsin law:

Under Wisconsin laws, a person is prohibited from purposely having sexual contact or sexual intercourse with a person who is unconscious, or under the influence of an intoxicant to such a degree that the person is incapable of giving consent. Purposely here has the meaning that the actor had actual knowledge that the person was intoxicated and was unable to give consent and intended to have sexual intercourse or sexual contact with that person while the person was unable to consent.

The law is to protect a person who is to drunk to be able to consent. It does not mean a girl can to a bar partying go have sex , wake up the next day regret what she did and have the guy thrown in jail for rape. The person Committing the assault what have to knowingly have intercourse with a person who is unable to consent. HAVING SEX WITH SOMEONE WHO IS INTOXICATED IS NOT RAPE!!!

Not completely true. Because I know many states (Not sure if PA is included), have a laws that actually consider it as such. In some cases, I am not so sure why it should be unless the person was knocked out completely. If there still somewhat conscious, I am not so sure that it can be considered automatic rape. However, the law is the law.


As a women I feel like I have to defend these women. I feel like I should be on there side. But the truth is I am not. I am embarrassed that these women make these claims. Andrea McNulty waited a year, was online talking about how hot Ben is and wanted to "fix his TV" before it was broken. Im sorry I can't support that. It makes me sick that a women can make this claim against him.

As for Miss DTF, she is no victim in this case. She put herself in a bad situation as well. Im not saying her poor behavior invited her to be assaulted, but I do believe that she should have been smarter. They both should have. I do not believe that they had sex at all. The sad thing is that she acted like a groupie and Ben treated her like a groupie. They both should have never gone back to the bathroom. And the idea that she was dragged back there is laughable. The whole thing is laughable. They were both stupid, but Ben had more to lose.

I would be embarrassed as well. It frustrates me as a man that women even consider using such an excuse. The easiest way to avoid a situation like that, well is to use that big piece of matter in your skull that controls your thoughts. Maybe if more people used it, we wouldn't have as many problems with this today and maybe the right people who have committed such acts would end up in Jail.



Women use rape as an excuse for bad behavior all the time. Did you know that on most college campus's women will not get in trouble for underage drinking if they are sexually assaulted? Now in theory thats a good thing. She feels like she can come forward if something does happen to her. But sadly girls are using that claim to get out of being charged with under age drinking. It bothers me that women are not held accountable for there own behavior and its the guys fault automatically. It bothers me that women put themselves in these situation. And it bothers me that real victims of rape and assault are diminished and cheapened and people have this idea that rape is just rough sex. Its not, its so much more. Its a despicable crime and if women want to be taken seriously they have to stop using it as an excuse.

If we all were a bit more accountable for everything we did, this world would be a better place.

[kittenfantastico76]

As a women I feel like I have to defend these women. I feel like I should be on there side. But the truth is I am not. I am embarrassed that these women make these claims. Andrea McNulty waited a year, was online talking about how hot Ben is and wanted to "fix his TV" before it was broken. Im sorry I can't support that. It makes me sick that a women can make this claim against him.

As for Miss DTF, she is no victim in this case. She put herself in a bad situation as well. Im not saying her poor behavior invited her to be assaulted, but I do believe that she should have been smarter. They both should have. I do not believe that they had sex at all. The sad thing is that she acted like a groupie and Ben treated her like a groupie. They both should have never gone back to the bathroom. And the idea that she was dragged back there is laughable. The whole thing is laughable. They were both stupid, but Ben had more to lose.

Women use rape as an excuse for bad behavior all the time. Did you know that on most college campus's women will not get in trouble for underage drinking if they are sexually assaulted? Now in theory thats a good thing. She feels like she can come forward if something does happen to her. But sadly girls are using that claim to get out of being charged with under age drinking. It bothers me that women are not held accountable for there own behavior and its the guys fault automatically. It bothers me that women put themselves in these situation. And it bothers me that real victims of rape and assault are diminished and cheapened and people have this idea that rape is just rough sex. Its not, its so much more. Its a despicable crime and if women want to be taken seriously they have to stop using it as an excuse.

Where is the EPIC WIN BUTTON for this post. I couldn't agree with you more!

[Craic]

As for Miss DTF, she is no victim in this case. She put herself in a bad situation as well. Im not saying her poor behavior invited her to be assaulted, but I do believe that she should have been smarter.

Let me ask you one question. Do you believe that a woman wearing a short skirt and flirting with a guy on a date puts herself in a bad position? Why or why not, and how do you relate that answer to what you have said here (please take this post as an honestly asked question wanting to see your thought process on the issue, because I just may agree with you on this issue).

[Craic]

LOL!!!...thats because the girls that you and I slept with..didnt wake up with a guy that had 100 milion dollars!!!!

Funny thing, the one time in my youth I came close to drunk sex, I got so mad at my girlfriend for getting drunk before sex that she waited till she sobered up, then um, made it up to me? Of course, that'd probably come as a shock to some that think people were born with a priestly collar (or for the baptists, a balding head, big stomach, and the inordinate usage of Ya'll, even if you didn't live in the south).

[HometownGal]

As a women I feel like I have to defend these women. I feel like I should be on there side. But the truth is I am not. I am embarrassed that these women make these claims. Andrea McNulty waited a year, was online talking about how hot Ben is and wanted to "fix his TV" before it was broken. Im sorry I can't support that. It makes me sick that a women can make this claim against him.

As for Miss DTF, she is no victim in this case. She put herself in a bad situation as well. Im not saying her poor behavior invited her to be assaulted, but I do believe that she should have been smarter. They both should have. I do not believe that they had sex at all. The sad thing is that she acted like a groupie and Ben treated her like a groupie. They both should have never gone back to the bathroom. And the idea that she was dragged back there is laughable. The whole thing is laughable. They were both stupid, but Ben had more to lose.

Women use rape as an excuse for bad behavior all the time. Did you know that on most college campus's women will not get in trouble for underage drinking if they are sexually assaulted? Now in theory thats a good thing. She feels like she can come forward if something does happen to her. But sadly girls are using that claim to get out of being charged with under age drinking. It bothers me that women are not held accountable for there own behavior and its the guys fault automatically. It bothers me that women put themselves in these situation. And it bothers me that real victims of rape and assault are diminished and cheapened and people have this idea that rape is just rough sex. Its not, its so much more. Its a despicable crime and if women want to be taken seriously they have to stop using it as an excuse.

A standing ovation is due here! :applaudit:


http://www.ff-press.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/SteelersNationCheersRapist.jpg

[siss]

Let me ask you one question. Do you believe that a woman wearing a short skirt and flirting with a guy on a date puts herself in a bad position? Why or why not, and how do you relate that answer to what you have said here (please take this post as an honestly asked question wanting to see your thought process on the issue, because I just may agree with you on this issue).

No wearing a short skirt on a date does not put in a bad position. I want to make myself attractive to a man as well. However following a man around, getting stupid drunk is putting yourself in a bad position.

What have I said before? I don't know how to respond to that. Can you be more specific?

[CPanther95]

Where were the "Are you sure this is a good idea? Means No" chants?

[Craic]

No wearing a short skirt on a date does not put in a bad position. I want to make myself attractive to a man as well. However following a man around, getting stupid drunk is putting yourself in a bad position.

What have I said before? I don't know how to respond to that. Can you be more specific?
I meant in this post. That is all.

To me, wearing a short skirt and drinking alcohol is the same level of responsibility when it comes to rape. It, in no way, shape, or form put any guilt on the woman (or man, in some cases). Since the laws I looked up state that the aggressor which is charged has the capacity to know, it is assumed that the person is not himself (or herself) incapacitated with alcohol. As such, it is now the moral and, in many states, the legal equivalent of sex with a minor, with someone of diminished mental capacity (some laws still speak of "retarded" which shocked me), or in a care facility where the aggressor is the caregiver.

I absolutely agree that getting drunk puts yourself in a bad position, just as much as I agree that dressing in certain ways to arouse and possibly send a wrong message puts yourself in a bad position. However, none of them lessen, negate, or in any other way remove any responsibility at all from the agresser, neither do they equate to any guilt on the victim (bolded to make sure people understand I don't blame a victim of rape because of how they dress... that's all).

BTW- in general, I agree with your OP (that I responded to) 100%. Once again, I DO think there was a bit more, but I also believe that neither of them are lying. Instead, it is simply two different views of the situation. That is why Ben was so shocked. That is also why I have hope Ben can, and has changed. This year, the difference in on the field leadership and what we here coming from the locker room seems to back this up as well. He has been humbled, and that is 90% of the battle.

[HometownGal]

No wearing a short skirt on a date does not put in a bad position. I want to make myself attractive to a man as well. However following a man around, getting stupid drunk is putting yourself in a bad position.

What have I said before? I don't know how to respond to that. Can you be more specific?

I agree totally with what you are saying, siss. There is a way for a woman to wear a mini skirt and still be dressed "tastefully". I've been told for a lot of years that I have "great legs" and damned straight when I go out I'm going to flaunt 'em as I think most women who have any degree of self-confidence will do. However, I don't wear a top with that mini skirt where my tatas are waving hello or a shirt that bears a sexual statement (i.e. DTF). I enjoy wearing short skirts and feel very comfortable in them. While I'm not a bar rat, if I go out for a night with my friends, I want to accentuate my "positives" but it doesn't mean I am looking for action. I think there is a fine line between dressing tastefully and dressing for the "reason" and not the "season" if you catch my drift.

[siss]

I think my point is that women have this attitude (especially in my generation) that it won't happen to them. That It is okay to "act how I want" without consequence. But when you inebriate yourself, and impair you decision making then you open yourself up to something bad happening.

I have done the wild child thing, I have gotten drunk, I have even had sex with strangers. But I made those decisions of sound mind. And I regret some of those decisions, but they are MY regret and my fault and no one else's.

I'm all for women's right, but I don't think they had acting irresponsible and blaming it on someone else in mind when they fought for my right to vote.

[CPanther95]

Let's not go off half-cocked here. I like mini-skirts - even when they aren't "tastefully" worn. I also like ta-tas that "say-hello" to me even if their owner doesn't notice me.

None of that is a problem. The only problem comes when a man doesn't respect the woman's wishes. If she says "no", then you have to respect that. If she asks you if you think it's a good idea, you are free to give your opinion.

[vasteeler]

i may be off but didnt she follow him into the bathroom?

[HometownGal]

Let's not go off half-cocked here. I like mini-skirts - even when they aren't "tastefully" worn. I also like ta-tas that "say-hello" to me even if their owner doesn't notice me.

None of that is a problem. The only problem comes when a man doesn't respect the woman's wishes. If she says "no", then you have to respect that. If she asks you if you think it's a good idea, you are free to give your opinion.

While I totally agree with respecting a woman's wishes if she says "no" (which hasn't been proven to have happened in Ben's case), I've seen a large number of today's young damsels half naked in bars and clubs flirting and hanging all over strangers just to sucker these guys into buying them some booze and I find that disgusting as all hell. Not that any woman deserves to be violated against her will - I'm not saying that at all, but what I AM saying is that women need to be a little smarter in the way that they dress and conduct themselves in public so as not to send the wrong message.

[Craic]

While I totally agree with respecting a woman's wishes if she says "no"
Bingo


I've seen a large number of today's young damsels half naked in bars and clubs flirting and hanging all over strangers just to sucker these guys into buying them some booze and I find that disgusting as all hell.Bingo twice


Not that any woman deserves to be violated against her will - I'm not saying that at all,
Bingo Thrice


but what I AM saying is that women need to be a little smarter in the way that they dress and conduct themselves in public so as not to send the wrong message.Bingo... quatice? :huh:

[Randy06]

While I totally agree with respecting a woman's wishes if she says "no" (which hasn't been proven to have happened in Ben's case), I've seen a large number of today's young damsels half naked in bars and clubs flirting and hanging all over strangers just to sucker these guys into buying them some booze and I find that disgusting as all hell. Not that any woman deserves to be violated against her will - I'm not saying that at all, but what I AM saying is that women need to be a little smarter in the way that they dress and conduct themselves in public so as not to send the wrong message.



I do concur

[oneforthetoe]

While I totally agree with respecting a woman's wishes if she says "no" (which hasn't been proven to have happened in Ben's case), I've seen a large number of today's young damsels half naked in bars and clubs flirting and hanging all over strangers just to sucker these guys into buying them some booze and I find that disgusting as all hell. Not that any woman deserves to be violated against her will - I'm not saying that at all, but what I AM saying is that women need to be a little smarter in the way that they dress and conduct themselves in public so as not to send the wrong message.



Agreed.







I've seen a large number of today's young damsels half naked in bars and clubs flirting and hanging all over strangers

And just for the official Steelers' Universe Record, where were these bars?:nervous::scratchchin::bolt:

[kittenfantastico76]

While I totally agree with respecting a woman's wishes if she says "no" (which hasn't been proven to have happened in Ben's case), I've seen a large number of today's young damsels half naked in bars and clubs flirting and hanging all over strangers just to sucker these guys into buying them some booze and I find that disgusting as all hell. Not that any woman deserves to be violated against her will - I'm not saying that at all, but what I AM saying is that women need to be a little smarter in the way that they dress and conduct themselves in public so as not to send the wrong message.

WORD!

[kittenfantastico76]

I think my point is that women have this attitude (especially in my generation) that it won't happen to them. That It is okay to "act how I want" without consequence. But when you inebriate yourself, and impair you decision making then you open yourself up to something bad happening.

I have done the wild child thing, I have gotten drunk, I have even had sex with strangers. But I made those decisions of sound mind. And I regret some of those decisions, but they are MY regret and my fault and no one else's.

I'm all for women's right, but I don't think they had acting irresponsible and blaming it on someone else in mind when they fought for my right to vote.

Well stated again - My question is where were her friends and why would they let her get herself into this situation? I mean sure he's an NFL player and all but my friends and I always stuck together at the bars. We arrived together and we all left together. I never let my girls go home with a guy unless I knew they were of sound mind and I can't recall a night when that happened. We got numbers and then went home. Different days indeed... and I"m only in my 30's!!!