OK, I'm not afraid to say it

[NCSteeler]

Ryan Clarks penalty was deserved and he'll likely get a fine. At first I thought he was clean and the falling wr caused helmet contact, but from the other side it was obvious he launched himself, which s clearly against the rules.

Also , if a "We beat the Steelers and the Refs" post came up on the Jets forum I wouldn't be surprised. Early on the INEPT ref crew cl;early gave us a free set of downs and then a marginally generous spot to help us continue a scoring drive.

all in all the ref crew was not penalty happy, but they still sucked. Hell what was with the three flags picked up?

[steelreserve]

The officiating wasn't terrible by any means, but those kinds of penalties are still horseshit. So he launched himself at the guy; he hit him cleanly with arms to the chest, and without it being a dangerous play. They really just call penalties now based on whether or not it looked like a hard hit, which is NOT ok.

Remember early on, when Sanchez scrambled and got hit by Harrison on the way down? They threw a flag and picked it up. Which tells me they were in the mindset from the get-go that if Harrison makes a hard hit or touches the QB, we'll throw the flag first and ask questions later.

Basically, I don't think there's any way to make a rule like "you can't hit a receiver high while he's doing x, but it's OK to hit him while he's doing y," or "you can't hit a quarterback in body part c but it's ok to hit him on body part d" and have it result in anything other than the game being played exactly the same way but a bunch of arbitrary penalties are thrown in randomly. It does no good. It just makes every good play into a roll of the dice. And it sickens me than the fans are buying it, even to the slightest degree. If what Clark did was a penalty under the current rules, it's a bad rule and they shouldn't have it. End of fucking discussion.

[SteelerFanInStl]

The refs didn't give us a free set of downs. If I remember correctly, that run by Mendy was on first down. He carried it for 9 yards and they gave us the first. So, if they do it properly, it's 2nd and 1, which we would have converted anyway. There's nothing to complain about there.

[BuddhaBus]

The refs didn't give us a free set of downs. If I remember correctly, that run by Mendy was on first down. He carried it for 9 yards and they gave us the first. So, if they do it properly, it's 2nd and 1, which we would have converted anyway. There's nothing to complain about there.

He was still clearly a yard short any way you slice it. There's no guarantee we would have converted that yard. We could have thrown 2 incomplete passes after that and had to punt. I know, with our defense, I would be upset if the same thing happened against us. I have to agree with NC here on all points.

Launching at a defenseless receiver IS a penalty. The wrong penalty was just called, but the yardage would have been the same.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

The officiating wasn't terrible by any means, but those kinds of penalties are still horseshit. So he launched himself at the guy; he hit him cleanly with arms to the chest, and without it being a dangerous play. They really just call penalties now based on whether or not it looked like a hard hit, which is NOT ok.

.

That is what I saw too. Really, it was a good football tackle and he lead with his shoulder......the only thing missing was that he didnt wrap up with his arms, but those are the kind of hits that put Ronnie Lott in the Hall of Fame.

Ronnie Lott, Ken Easley and others could not play in the modern NFL that penalizes contact.

[SteelerFanInStl]

He was still clearly a yard short any way you slice it. There's no guarantee we would have converted that yard. We could have thrown 2 incomplete passes after that and had to punt. I know, with our defense, I would be upset if the same thing happened against us. I have to agree with NC here on all points.

Again, it was a very minor thing. Of course there's no guarantee that we would've made it but to make a big deal out of it is ridiculous. It would've been an easy conversion.

[BuddhaBus]

Again, it was a very minor thing. Of course there's no guarantee that we would've made it but to make a big deal out of it is ridiculous. It would've been an easy conversion.

With our O-line, nothing is easy. And I don't think miss-spotting a ball by a full yard is really "minor". Besides, I don't really see anyone making a big deal out of it, just pointing out that it was yet another blunder by the refs.

[Akagi]

I saw what NC saw. He didn't helmet-to-helmet, but he obviously launched into the guy, and he didn't have to. He could have made the exact same play by driving through the guy while still on the ground. IMO, this was EXACTLY the way the rule interpretation was intended. "Unnecessary roughness" is exactly what it was.

I think the reason the Jets didn't argue the down was that they preferred us in 1st and 10 in that situation. It was 4 shots from there, or 7 shots from a yard back of there.

[GodfatherofSoul]

Akagi,

Maybe it's unnecessary roughness in golf. The whole point of lighting up a receiver is to jar the ball loose. Goodell can't make defenses cede a catch. I've been watching a lot of safeties pulling up on receivers and even missing tackles because of this crap.

[tube517]

No problem with the call. But there has been NO consistency in the officiating. Clark will get fined and probably Harrison, also, just for shits and giggles.

[O'Malley]

What got me was MIke Wallace was running routes while giving Cromartie a piggy back ride. He had a hand full of jersey on three routes where Mike could have had a touchdown. How they did not see it is beyond me. Good thing we still have a good shot at the division title and a first round bye!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Akagi,

Maybe it's unnecessary roughness in golf. .
:rofl:

EXACTLY!!! This is not golf or tennis. Put flags on their hips and take away tackling all together if you are gonna outlaw hitting in the game of football.

[BigNastyDefense]

Hold on, since when is launching illegal? The other year he was flagged for launching and the NFL came out that week after the game and said that launching is not illegal as long as you're not leading with your helmet.

And this defenseless receiver stuff is absolute bullshit. When the fuck can you hit a receiver now? After he has caught the ball, landed safely on the ground, and then ran at least for a first down? If he's gonna go up for a high pass, then he should be fair game. Throw a flag on the QB for making a shitty throw and putting his receiver in that position.

I think it was another poorly officiated game. They picked up a flag on the opening kickoff return for a TD. Why the hell was a flag thrown if there wasn't a foul? There were three other flags picked up yesterday. Also, the Jets could have sexually assaulted our receivers as they ran routes and not drawn a pass interference, holding, or illegal touching flag.

[Psycho Ward 86]

What got me was MIke Wallace was running routes while giving Cromartie a piggy back ride. He had a hand full of jersey on three routes where Mike could have had a touchdown. How they did not see it is beyond me. Good thing we still have a good shot at the division title and a first round bye!

This.

But regarding Ryan Clark's monster hit, I'll agree with the fact that it was illegal. He clearly launched himself, leading with the top of his helmet.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

This.

But regarding Ryan Clark's monster hit, I'll agree with the fact that it was illegal. He clearly launched himself, leading with the top of his helmet.

I'll agree that he left his feet to make the hit, but watch it again and it looks like he intiates contact with his right shoulder. Its a pansy call made because of the directive of the NFL to make the game safer and softer.

[smokin3000gt]

When the receiver has to jump to catch the ball, how else is the defense supposed to knock the ball lose? If they are un-touchable until they land with the ball and take a few steps then we might as well just throw it over the middle every time and pick up the 'give me' 1st down. I do think that penalties are being called based on how 'hard' the tackle looks. Anybody else notice that sometimes a flag comes out 2 minutes after the play?? WTF is that? Then the rest of the penalties they throw a flag then change their mind and pick it up.

I think these guys lost touch with the game, the league, and the rules. The officiating has been consistently getting worse the past few years and is nothing short of an embarrassment right now.

[86WARD]

Clark should be fined for that hit according to the rules. Receiver was defenseless. End of story.

[Akagi]

Akagi,

Maybe it's unnecessary roughness in golf. The whole point of lighting up a receiver is to jar the ball loose. Goodell can't make defenses cede a catch. I've been watching a lot of safeties pulling up on receivers and even missing tackles because of this crap.

I'm not saying I like it, but I believe that the referee interpreted the rule correctly and the flag was justified. I think that the idea is that the safety of the players trumps jarring the ball loose. Remember the Turkey Jones slam? That would do a good job of jarring the ball loose, too. But you can't do it.

[GodfatherofSoul]

You can't let "safety" get in the way of the game. If safety was paramount, we'd literally be playing flag football. Goodell decided to change the definition of what a legal hit is in direct contrast to 80+ years of football tradition. He did so in mid-season in response to the league's new "concussion awareness" policies. Just about anyone who's played the game refuses to accept his new definition.

[steeldevil]

Legal hit in my book. Was not helmet to helmet. Yes I guess the receiver was "defenseless" but Clark was trying to pry the ball loose. I guess he was supposed to let him come down and make sure he caught it and then hit him. I was furious after I saw the replay. What a joke this league is becoming if that is a penalty...

[Akagi]

Legal hit in my book. Was not helmet to helmet. Yes I guess the receiver was "defenseless" but Clark was trying to pry the ball loose. I guess he was supposed to let him come down and make sure he caught it and then hit him. I was furious after I saw the replay. What a joke this league is becoming if that is a penalty...

On the other hand, the standards for a catch are getting to the point where the receiver almost has to show up with the ball at breakfast the next morning.

My point isn't whether or not the rule should exist; my point is that the hit was not legal as the rule is written. And Clark should have known that, and because he made the hit it cost his team 15 yards.

Oh, and he didn't knock the ball loose, either.

[O'Malley]

Yeah I guess it would be safer if he took his legs out and he landed on his head. These rules are ridiculous and the game has changed to the point of no return.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

My point isn't whether or not the rule should exist; my point is that the hit was not legal as the rule is written. And Clark should have known that, and because he made the hit it cost his team 15 yards.
.

My point is that if you think Ryan Clark takes the time to think if he should be aggressive with his tackle or hold up a bit.........then you know nothing about football, the safety position and should not be commenting on what Ryan Clark did.

Its a split second decision that Clark and others make and if he decides to be tenative or conservative to avoid a possible penalty.........he's probably gonna lose his job to somebody that is more aggressive. What Clark did is in the best interests of the Steelers, the Steeler coaches, his teammates and his family.

Thank you Ryan Clark for not being a pansy or candy a$$ playing safety in the NFL!!!!

[Akagi]

My point is that if you think Ryan Clark takes the time to think if he should be aggressive with his tackle or hold up a bit.........then you know nothing about football, the safety position and should not be commenting on what Ryan Clark did.

Its a split second decision that Clark and others make and if he decides to be tenative or conservative to avoid a possible penalty.........he's probably gonna lose his job to somebody that is more aggressive. What Clark did is in the best interests of the Steelers, the Steeler coaches, his teammates and his family.

Thank you Ryan Clark for not being a pansy or candy a$$ playing safety in the NFL!!!!

Sorry, I disagree. At that level, an athlete both thinks and acts. He taught himself to launch, and he can teach himself to keep his feet on the ground and make the same hit legally.

[vasteeler]

My point is that if you think Ryan Clark takes the time to think if he should be aggressive with his tackle or hold up a bit.........then you know nothing about football, the safety position and should not be commenting on what Ryan Clark did.

Its a split second decision that Clark and others make and if he decides to be tenative or conservative to avoid a possible penalty.........he's probably gonna lose his job to somebody that is more aggressive. What Clark did is in the best interests of the Steelers, the Steeler coaches, his teammates and his family.

Thank you Ryan Clark for not being a pansy or candy a$$ playing safety in the NFL!!!!


agree 100% you have to try and jar the ball loose , fines be damned

[Akagi]

agree 100% you have to try and jar the ball loose , fines be damned

So, you jar the ball loose, then give it back to them plus 15 yards? Good luck with that plan.

[steeldevil]

On the other hand, the standards for a catch are getting to the point where the receiver almost has to show up with the ball at breakfast the next morning.

My point isn't whether or not the rule should exist; my point is that the hit was not legal as the rule is written. And Clark should have known that, and because he made the hit it cost his team 15 yards.

Oh, and he didn't knock the ball loose, either.

I honestly don't know what the rules are anymore, and quite frankly, don't really care either. If Clark's hit was illegal then fine, the ref did his job. But that hit should NOT be illegal. ANYONE that know ANYTHING about football knows that...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Sorry, I disagree. At that level, an athlete both thinks and acts. He taught himself to launch, and he can teach himself to keep his feet on the ground and make the same hit legally.

Its fine to disagree, but what do you base your opinion on??

Clark and other elite athletes in the NFL make split second decisions based on a concept called "unconscious competence"...an almost automatic reaction which is part of elite sport performance. I'm sure if you are interested you can google the term along with "sport performance" or "sport psychology"

The sad thing in a thread like this is that most who are criticizing Clark for an instinctive and solid tackle are "unconsciously incompetent".

[NCSteeler]

Yeah I guess it would be safer if he took his legs out and he landed on his head. These rules are ridiculous and the game has changed to the point of no return.

That actually might have been a better play,more likely the guy drops the ball smashing into turf and defender doesn't get penalized.

[urgle burgle]

i think it was borderline. those saying he should just be able to switch how he has he has tackled for years, in mid season(that was acceptable the whole time he has been in the league), forget some things. ever heard of the term "muscle memory", couple that with less than a sec to adjust on reaction, then that is what is going to happen, until players get used to it, and practice it.