Does Kevin Colbert get off too easy?

[zulater]

I realize the Steelers for the most part have done a superior job drafting front end talent. To pick at or near the bottom of the draft most years and almost always come out with a plumb or two is remarkable. And while I understand hindsight is always 20-20 I think it's fair to say many of us have come away from our recent drafts wondering where the secondary and offensive line help was going to come from? And when we have used draft picks for these particiliar positions lately we've largely whiffed.

Here's some wasted opportunities from our recent drafts, I wont single out picks later than the 4th round, because it's such a crap shoot that late.

2010. Thaddeus Gibson. This one really irks me because I'm not convinced this kid isn't a player, yet we cut him and kept Tony Hills when it's pretty well established that Tony has no game.

2009. Kraig Urbik, and Keenan Lewis in the 3rd round!?

2008 Limas Sweed 2nd, Bruce Davis in the 3rd, and Tony Hills in the 4th.

2007 Matt Spaeth 3rd round when we already had a young franchise tight end, and Dan sepuvelda, and Ryan McBean in the 4th.

And it's not just the draft, knowing our weaknesses in the secondary and OL little to no effort was made to obtain a quality NFL veteran to strengthen those positions. Not the Steelers way you say, how about James Farrior in 2002, Mewelde Moore 2008, or even go back to the previous GM and look how they went about bringing the Bus to Pittsburgh.

When the need is great enough you've got to find a way to address it. And who here hasn't considered the offensive line and secondary areas of great concern for the past 5 or 6 years?

Bottom line here we all are blaming LeBeau and Arians, when in fact the true culprit might be residing comfortably in his office above.

I like Colbert, but he's not really giving our coaching staff a fair chance with the O-linemen and defensive backs he's obtained of late. .

[Raleigh Steel]

Bottom line here we all are blaming LeBeau and Arians, when in fact the true culprit might be residing comfortably in his office above.

I like Colbert, but he's not really giving our coaching staff a fair chance with the O-linemen and defensive backs he's obtained of late. .

i'm with you on this. i addressed this earlier. we have great talent but what appears to be a lack of depth. the OL was doing pretty well until injuries showed up and now its a mess. the secondary has been a weak link for a while. it only does well when the front 7 are dominating. now the DL is riddled with injuries as well and the depth isnt there which is exposing a weak secondary.

drafts are often a crap shoot, but our 08 and 09 drafts haven't produced many players that contribute. 07 was a good one though. but like you said zulater, we haven't done a great job at filling holes via free agency.

so then it falls back on to the coaches to evaluate what they have, and how to get the most out of it. sorry, arians just is not that guy, and he never will be. i'd love to see someone else come in and bring a more simplistic approach to the offense, a more physical style instead of this finesse style.

i was hoping that the steelers could load up on OL and DL but now CB and Safety need to be addressed as well. there may not be enough picks or FA's out there...throw in the CBA and next season (if there is one) will be very interesting.

[zulater]

One thing I want to add is that maybe it's time for the Steelers to reevaluate how they choose db's in the draft? Every year you see these great names of cb's and safety's projected to drop to the Steelers and then Bouchette, Wexall, Starkey, or one of those guys familiar with the Steelers ways will correctly point out that the Steelers have no interest in such and such, because he's not physical enough, doesn't support the run well enough to be a db in LeBeau's defense. Well how 'bout this, how about we start prioritizing db's who can actually cover someone over those that support the run the best?!!!

[43Hitman]

I realize the Steelers for the most part have done a superior job drafting front end talent. To pick at or near the bottom of the draft most years and almost always come out with a plumb or two is remarkable. And while I understand hindsight is always 20-20 I think it's fair to say many of us have come away from our recent drafts wondering where the secondary and offensive line help was going to come from? And when we have used draft picks for these particiliar positions lately we've largely whiffed.

Here's some wasted opportunities from our recent drafts, I wont single out picks later than the 4th round, because it's such a crap shoot that late.

2010. Thaddeus Gibson. This one really irks me because I'm not convinced this kid isn't a player, yet we cut him and kept Tony Hills when it's pretty well established that Tony has no game.

2009. Kraig Urbik, and Keenan Lewis in the 3rd round!?

2008 Limas Sweed 2nd, Bruce Davis in the 3rd, and Tony Hills in the 4th.

2007 Matt Spaeth 3rd round when we already had a young franchise tight end, and Dan sepuvelda, and Ryan McBean in the 4th.

And it's not just the draft, knowing our weaknesses in the secondary and OL little to no effort was made to obtain a quality NFL veteran to strengthen those positions. Not the Steelers way you say, how about James Farrior in 2002, Mewelde Moore 2008, or even go back to the previous GM and look how they went about bringing the Bus to Pittsburgh.

When the need is great enough you've got to find a way to address it. And who here hasn't considered the offensive line and secondary areas of great concern for the past 5 or 6 years?

Bottom line here we all are blaming LeBeau and Arians, when in fact the true culprit might be residing comfortably in his office above.

I like Colbert, but he's not really giving our coaching staff a fair chance with the O-linemen and defensive backs he's obtained of late. .

You make some very valid points, and I think the fact that we've ignored DL and OL over the past years (not counting this year and last year where we picked for those positions Pouncey/Hood) is really catching up with us. We may be staring a rebuilding situation with our lines right in the face before we know it.

[zulater]

You make some very valid points, and I think the fact that we've ignored DL and OL over the past years (not counting this year and last year where we picked for those positions Pouncey/Hood) is really catching up with us. We may be staring a rebuilding situation with our lines right in the face before we know it.

I think more than anything we need to start looking for the DB or OL equivilent of the 2002 version of James Farrior in the free agent market, a veteran presense who can step right into the starting lineup and stabilize a unit.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Since 2000

2000
Burress (hit)
Marvel Smith (debatable)
Kendrick Clancy (average player)
Hank Poteat (miss)
Danny Farmer (miss)
Clark Haggans (hit 5ht rounder)
Tee Martin (miss)
Chris Combs (miss)
Jason Gavadza (miss)

2001
Casey Hampton (home run)
Kendrell Bell (big miss)
Mathais Nkwenti (miss)
Chukky Okobi (miss)
Rodney Bailey (miss)
Roger Knight (miss)
Chris Taylor (miss)

2002
Kendell Simmons (average)
Randel El (hit)
Chris Hope (Hit)
Larry Foote (Home Run 4th Round)
Verron Haynes (miss)
Lee Mays (miss)
Lavar Glover (miss)
Brett Kiesal (Hit 7th Round)

2003
Troy Polamalu (Home Run)
Alonzo Jackson (miss)
Ike Taylor (Hit)
Brian St Pierre (miss)
JT Wall (miss)

2004
Big Ben (Home Run)
Ricardo Coclough (miss)
Max Starks (Hit)
Nathaniel Adibi (miss)
Bo Lacy (miss)
Matt Kranchick (miss)
Drew Caylor (miss)
Eric Taylor (miss)

2005
Heath Miller (Hit)
Bryant McFadden (Hit)
Trai Essex (Hit)
Fred Gibson (miss)
Rian Wallace (miss)
Chris Kemoeatu (Hit)
Shaun Nua (miss)
Noah Herron (Miss)

2006
Santonio Holmes (Hit)
Anthony Smith (Big Miss)
Willie Reid (miss)
Willie Colon (Hit)
Orien Harris (Miss)
Omar Jacobs (miss)
Charles Davis (miss)
Marvin Philip (miss)
Cedric Humes (miss)

2007
Timmons (Big Hit)
Woodley (Home Run)
Matt Spaeth (Average)
Sepulveda (Hit)
Ryan McBean (Average)
Cameron Stephenson (Miss)
William Gay (Strike Out)
Dallas Baker (miss)

2008
Rashard Mendenhall (Hit)
Limas Sweed (Strike Out)
Bruce Davis (Miss)
Tony Hills (average to miss)
Dennis Dixon (average)
Mike Humpal (miss)

2009
Ziggy Hood (Hit)
Kraig Urbik (miss)
Mike Wallace (Home Run)
Keenan Lewis (average)
Joe BUrnett (miss)
Frank Summers (miss)
Rashon Harris (miss)
AQ Shipley (miss)
David Johnson (average to miss)

2010
Maurkice Pouncey (Home Run)
Jason Worldis (average for now)
Emmanual Sanders (average for now)
Thaddeus Gibson (pending eval)
Chris Scott (pending)
Crezdon Butler (pending)
Steven Sylvester (average to Hit)
Dywer, Brown, Worthington (pending)

[BigNastyDefense]

I think some people forget that the NFL Draft is a total crapshoot. There are guys taken in the first round that everyone thinks is going to be a star, but they end up a complete bust. Then there are seventh rounders like Brett Keisel and Marquis Colston who end up being stars and nobody thought they'd make a final roster.

[SteelerChick]

Have to say I agree with the comments here. With the defense looking weak and the o-line depleted with injuries, it's obvious our depth isn't very deep anymore. As for BA, I haven't liked him from Day One, even in 2008 which was all Defense & the Ben/Holmes combo. I've been a fan all my life and go back to the 70s Dynasty and BA is the first person in the Steelers organization that I intensely dislike. He's an arrogant SOB on top of being a high-school level OC.

[The Duke]

Colbert does better than most GMs out there

yes, he has ignored the lines for a while, but most other positions he's done great. It's impossible to believe he'll do perfect in every area

All of his first round picks have been big contributors, so imo he should keep drafting olinemen in the first, since that seems be his weakness in the later rounds

[Wallace108]

BA is the first person in the Steelers organization that I intensely dislike. He's an arrogant SOB on top of being a high-school level OC.

:toofunny:
You're giving him way too much credit. :heh:

[X-Terminator]

OK guys, are we going to turn EVERY damn thread into an anti-Arians rant thread? Can we please stick with the topic at hand here?

[oneforthetoe]

Colbert does better than most GMs out there

yes, he has ignored the lines for a while, but most other positions he's done great. It's impossible to believe he'll do perfect in every area

All of his first round picks have been big contributors, so imo he should keep drafting olinemen in the first, since that seems be his weakness in the later rounds

This.

He is not above criticism for his mistakes, but he drafts well enough to keep us competitive year in and year out. The alternative is a lot uglier than being embarrassed by the Pats on a Sunday Night.

[Wallace108]

OK guys, are we going to turn EVERY damn thread into an anti-Arians rant thread?

Yes. We're just as predictable as he is. :heh:


He is not above criticism for his mistakes, but he drafts well enough to keep us competitive year in and year out. The alternative is a lot uglier than being embarrassed by the Pats on a Sunday Night.

I completely agree. The draft isn't an exact science. And Colbert has done a great job. Take a look at the Browns No.1 picks over the past 10 years and see where they are now.

[43Hitman]

Yes. We're just as predictable as he is. :heh:



I completely agree. The draft isn't an exact science. And Colbert has done a great job. Take a look at the Browns No.1 picks over the past 10 years and see where they are now.

Actually the Browns have done a pretty good job building up their o-line.

[Wallace108]

Actually the Browns have done a pretty good job building up their o-line.

True, but they've failed miserably everywhere else. Let's compare the Browns vs. the Steelers No. 1 picks over the past 10 years.

Browns
Courtney Brown
Gerard Warren
William Green
Jeff Faine
Kellen Winslow
Braylon Edwards
Kamerion Wimbley
Joe Thomas
Beau Bell
Alex Mack
Joe Haden

Steelers
Plaxico Burress
Casey Hampton
Kendall Simmons
Troy Polamalu
Ben Roethlisberger
Heath Miller
Santonio Holmes
Lawrence Timmons
Rashard Mendenhall
Evander Hood
Maurkice Pouncey

I like the job Colbert has done. Sure, we need more help on the O-line. It started with Pouncey ... now let's see where it goes from here.

[oneforthetoe]

Actually the Browns have done a pretty good job building up their o-line.

Yea, but how has the rest of their team been since they returned to the NFL?

[fansince'76]

True, but they've failed miserably everywhere else. Let's compare the Browns vs. the Steelers No. 1 picks over the past 10 years.

Browns
Courtney Brown
Gerard Warren
William Green
Jeff Faine
Kellen Winslow
Braylon Edwards
Kamerion Wimbley
Joe Thomas
Beau Bell
Alex Mack
Joe Haden

Steelers
Plaxico Burress
Casey Hampton
Kendall Simmons
Troy Polamalu
Ben Roethlisberger
Heath Miller
Santonio Holmes
Lawrence Timmons
Rashard Mendenhall
Evander Hood
Maurkice Pouncey

I like the job Colbert has done. Sure, we need more help on the O-line. It started with Pouncey ... now let's see where it goes from here.

It's also considerably easier to stock up on top-flight OL talent when you're drafting in the top 10 almost every year.

[solardave]

Actually the Browns have done a pretty good job building up their o-line.

I was just getting ready to say that. I also thought they'd come in 3rd this year ahead of the Bungals and it looks like they can do it.

[solardave]

The bottom line is we ignored both lines to the point where free agency may have to become the Steeler way while we retool. How often does a lineman like Pouncey fall to us? Same thing on the D-line. We get great LBs or ends that can convert but we need some tough young talent now. I think Ziggy will be good to great but look how long it takes to crack the lineup even when Aaron was lost last year he barely got on the field.

I'm not ready to say the sky is falling but we need help now and don't have the depth on either side.

[SMR]

The bottom line is we ignored both lines to the point where free agency may have to become the Steeler way while we retool. How often does a lineman like Pouncey fall to us? Same thing on the D-line. We get great LBs or ends that can convert but we need some tough young talent now. I think Ziggy will be good to great but look how long it takes to crack the lineup even when Aaron was lost last year he barely got on the field.

I'm not ready to say the sky is falling but we need help now and don't have the depth on either side.

I'm with ya on this. We need depth on DL and OL and lots of secondary help. Colbert BETTER BETTER shift his attention to these issues for the next draft, not 5 years down the road! Grrrrr...............

[Psycho Ward 86]

William Gay (Strike Out)
David Johnson (average to miss)


I know we all hate his guts, but for a 6th rounder to be a former starter, and play a bevy of snaps in a nickel package is a good deal. We just expect a lot of him because our secondary play is horrendous. But we all still hate him with a passion. Including me lol.

And where's the love for DJ! He's had a number of key blocks! Very surprised with his production!

[Steeldude]

Bryant McFadden (Hit)

looks like a miss so far. couldn't beat out an aging veteran. benched in 2008. cut in 2009. brought back and is still playing poorly. this is a 2nd round pick.


William Gay (Strike Out)

he is a 6th rounder. 6th and 7th rounders are pure guesses for the most part. if they make the team great, if they don't then oh well. he is no worse than the 2nd round investment of mcfadden.

[zulater]

Since 2000

2000
Burress (hit)
Marvel Smith (debatable) How?? The guy was a quality tackle in the league for about 8 years, no debate about it, that was a hit!
Kendrick Clancy (average player) More like below average, way below!
Hank Poteat (miss)
Danny Farmer (miss)
Clark Haggans (hit 5ht rounder)
Tee Martin (miss)
Chris Combs (miss)
Jason Gavadza (miss)

2001
Casey Hampton (home run)
Kendrell Bell (big miss) disagree, Kendrell had one great season, and a pretty good second year too, I can't call him a miss, the guy was a true talent, just couldn't stay healthy after his second year.
Mathais Nkwenti (miss)
Chukky Okobi (miss)
Rodney Bailey (miss)
Roger Knight (miss)
Chris Taylor (miss)

2002
Kendell Simmons (average)
Randel El (hit)
Chris Hope (Hit)
Larry Foote (Home Run 4th Round)Hit, but no home run.
Verron Haynes (miss) was a usefull player for a couple years, decent role player for a SB winner.
Lee Mays (miss)
Lavar Glover (miss)
Brett Kiesal (Hit 7th Round) More Home run than Larry Foote imo
2003
Troy Polamalu (Home Run)
Alonzo Jackson (miss)
Ike Taylor (Hit) You have Foote a Home Run and Ike just a hit?!!!!Wow!Brian St Pierre (miss)
JT Wall (miss)

2004
Big Ben (Home Run)
Ricardo Coclough (miss)
Max Starks (Hit)
Nathaniel Adibi (miss)
Bo Lacy (miss)
Matt Kranchick (miss)
Drew Caylor (miss)
Eric Taylor (miss)

2005
Heath Miller (Hit) Home Run!! You and I have a different definition of what's a hit and what's a Home Run I think?! lolBryant McFadden (Hit)
Trai Essex (Hit) Below average, bloop single or fielders choice.
Fred Gibson (miss)
Rian Wallace (miss)
Chris Kemoeatu (Hit)
Shaun Nua (miss)
Noah Herron (Miss)

2006
Santonio Holmes (Hit) Got to be at least Big hit, just for 2008 if nothing else.
Anthony Smith (Big Miss)
Willie Reid (miss)
Willie Colon (Hit) Big hitOrien Harris (Miss)
Omar Jacobs (miss)
Charles Davis (miss)
Marvin Philip (miss)
Cedric Humes (miss)

2007
Timmons (Big Hit) It's at the wall and looking to go over for the Homer any day! Woodley (Home Run)
Matt Spaeth (Average) LOL, average what?
Sepulveda (Hit) AverageRyan McBean (Average)
Cameron Stephenson (Miss)
William Gay (Strike Out) Popular but wrong opinion. Gay has his moments and will be in the league for several more years. He's low end of average when he's used correctly
Dallas Baker (miss)

2008
Rashard Mendenhall (Hit)
Limas Sweed (Strike Out)
Bruce Davis (Miss)
Tony Hills (average to miss) Miss, the guy's played about 20 meaningfull snaps and played poorly on about 15 of them.
Dennis Dixon (average) Low average, on the verge of being a miss.
Mike Humpal (miss)

2009
Ziggy Hood (Hit)Too early to say
Kraig Urbik (miss)
Mike Wallace (Home Run)
Keenan Lewis (average)
Joe BUrnett (miss)
Frank Summers (miss)
Rashon Harris (miss)
AQ Shipley (miss)
David Johnson (average to miss)

2010
Maurkice Pouncey (Home Run)
Jason Worldis (average for now)
Emmanual Sanders (average for now)
Thaddeus Gibson (pending eval) Waived, so what exactly is pending?
Chris Scott (pending)
Crezdon Butler (pending)
Steven Sylvester (average to Hit)
Dywer, Brown, Worthington (pending)

We disagree on many of these players.

But if the point is overall Colbert's a very good personell guy, you'll get no argument from me.