Is Bruce Arians to Blame for the Sunday Night Debacle?

[Jaquila]

Is the sky really falling? The view from Pittsburgh this morning is a hazy and bleak one, both literally and figuratively.
An unusually petulant Tom Brady and his band of lunch-pail workaholics picked apart the Steelers’ allegedly stout defense until there was nothing left of cornerback William Gay but a heap of spandex smouldering on the turf....
http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/Best-of-the-Burgh-Blogs/Pulling-No-Punches/November-2010/Is-Bruce-Arians-to-Blame-for-the-Sunday-Night-Debacle/

[Steeldude]

arians' offense doesn't seem to have a plan/identity. sometimes it's almost like he randomly selects plays out of a hat.

the patriots had a controlled offense with a set game plan. they once again dismantled the steelers' defense with ease.

[zulater]

Was Bruce to blame? No more so than about 60 other guys assocciated with the Steelers last night. Total team effort, just not in the good way.

[Chidi29]

arians' offense doesn't seem to have a plan/identity. sometimes it's almost like he randomly selects plays out of a hat.

the patriots had a controlled offense with a set game plan. they once again dismantled the steelers' defense with ease.

That'll happen when you're not able to consistently get anything to work. If we could have found something that worked all game long like New England did, you can bet we would have stuck with it.

Playing catch-up in garbage time doesn't constiute as something that works, for the record. :chuckle:

[Chidi29]

Was Bruce to blame? No more so than about 60 other guys assocciated with the Steelers last night. Total team effort, just not in the good way.

This.

[tube517]

It does have an identity.

Occasional quick strike capability (run or pass) Unable to sustain long clock killing drives.



arians' offense doesn't seem to have a plan/identity. sometimes it's almost like he randomly selects plays out of a hat.

the patriots had a controlled offense with a set game plan. they once again dismantled the steelers' defense with ease.

[SteelerSal]

arians' offense doesn't seem to have a plan/identity. sometimes it's almost like he randomly selects plays out of a hat.

the patriots had a controlled offense with a set game plan. they once again dismantled the steelers' defense with ease.

Unlike our coaching staff, the Pats watched film, pick out our weakness and attacked it to death on both sides of the ball.
Didn't our coaches watch film from the Browns/Pats game the week before?? Don't answer that, I already know the answer.

[Chidi29]

Unlike our coaching staff, the Pats watched film, pick out our weakness and attacked it to death on both sides of the ball.
Didn't our coaches watch film from the Browns/Pats game the week before?? Don't answer that, I already know the answer.

Aside from one run, our running game didn't exist.

[43Hitman]

Aside from one run, our running game didn't exist.

I found that very strange too. I mean we were only down by 7 and it just seemed like Arians freaked out and completely abandoned the run and went shotgun crazy.

[steel9guy]

I was frustrated with his calls in the 1st quarter when the pats were blitzing and we kept trying to go deep but I thought he did an ok job last night but I'd blame every single person on that team.(except Jeff Reed because in reality he has angry fans and some bad surfaces to kick on like in the Superdome against the Saints.:bs:)

[Steeldude]

Was Bruce to blame? No more so than about 60 other guys assocciated with the Steelers last night. Total team effort, just not in the good way.

if he doesn't prepare the players it's his fault. arians stated this year is the first time he decided to game plan against 3-4 defenses and run scrimmages against in practice. i find that shocking. so all of the years prior he only based his game plan against 4-3 defenses, not taking into account many teams use a 3-4.

yes, the players deserve blame for last night too. lebeau is not without blame either :)

[Mach1]

I found that very strange too. I mean we were only down by 7 and it just seemed like Arians freaked out and completely abandoned the run and went shotgun crazy.

Just like last year.

Although it was a total team meltdown in all facets of the game.

[Edman]

Bruce is merely a rusty cog in a broken down machine.

There were signs of breakdown in the prior weeks. The whole wagon fell apart last night, and the weaknesses of the Steelers were exposed for all to see.

On offense: Blitz. Run a couple of stunts, and blanket the receivers. Arians and Ben won't adjust to it, and don't show any signs of doing so. Just run the same tired non-effective offense that eats up clock but scores no points. The Steelers offense has no identity whatsoever. It's really sad that the Offense couldn't do anything until the game was way out of reach and the Pats went prevent on D. That's how pathetic the offense was last night.

On Defense: Pass. Pass. Pass. Whoever Willie Gay is covering, throw to him. I hate to say this but I think it's time for Lebeau to retire. His Defense no longer works. In this pass-happy league, 10 yard cushions are not going to work. Teams looked at what Arizona did in XLIII and went on it. Everyone has been tearing apart the Steelers secondary since then.

[Chidi29]

I just crunched some numbers really quickly.

I've always talked about a better indicator of run/pass splits are ratios on first down and in the first half because the numbers can get skewed if you look at the whole game (which they were with all the garabge time).

Taking away the two minute drill at the end of the first half and here are the numbers.

First Half
Run: 11
Pass: 20

Doesn't look too good. However, keep in mind all the "and long" situations we were in. Ben would get sacked and put us in 3rd and long. There was a penalty that gave us a 1st and 20 and forced our hand to pass.

Let's look at first down numbers in the first half.

Run: 7
Pass: 4

Obviously favored toward the run.

I'm not trying to say Arians had a good game, you can't when the offense stunk as bad as it did, but considering how bad our run game looked, we tried to run the ball when we could.

[VTsteel]

http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/Best-of-the-Burgh-Blogs/Pulling-No-Punches/November-2010/dm_101105_nfl_mayne_brady_beiber.jpg
Tom Brady's wireless hair curler runs on pure arrogance.


Now thats Funny!

[Mach1]

http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/Best-of-the-Burgh-Blogs/Pulling-No-Punches/November-2010/dm_101105_nfl_mayne_brady_beiber.jpg
Tom Brady's wireless hair curler runs on pure arrogance.


Now thats Funny!

It also doubles as a butt plug.

[Count Steeler]

I think we have to hang this game on Tomlin. I'm sick of picking on Arians and Lebeau. The grand master has to take responsibility for not having his coaches prepared and his team prepared. They better have a statement game next week or this season is over. This could also be the death knell for Tomlin. After unleashing hell last December, what does he have up his sleeve this year?

[HometownGal]

In answer to the OP's question . . . absolutely NOT is BA solely to blame for last night's debacle. Call me an Arians apologist - I don't give a shit, but what I saw last night was an ineffective defense, a kicker who thought he was on a soccer field and an offense that didn't get into its groove until the 4Q when it was too late. A total team collapse and everyone gets their share of the blame. Every player, every coach.

[fansince'76]

This could also be the death knell for Tomlin.

Doubtful. But I'm curious - who would we replace him with?

[oneforthetoe]

Originally Posted by carnoj
This could also be the death knell for Tomlin.

Although I agree that Tomlin must take blame for his teams performance last night, it borders on insanity to think he will be fired. If the Rooney's didn't fire Cowher after two successive losing seasons, before he won a Super Bowl, what makes any rational person think they are about to fire Tomlin now?

[oneforthetoe]

Doubtful. But I'm curious - who would we replace him with?

Wade Phillips needs a job. And I am thinking that Norv Turner will also be available after this season. Ohm and Gerry Glanville probably would like to get back into coaching. No can lose with any of those three.

[steeldawg]

Its the same thing we saw last year Ben gets in the hurry up and is running the offense up and down the field.

[fansince'76]

Wade Phillips needs a job. And I am thinking that Norv turner will also be available after this season.

Yeah, I've heard Gruden's name bandied about as well.

[HometownGal]

Although I agree that Tomlin must take blame for his teams performance last night, it borders on insanity to think he will be fired. If the Rooney's didn't fire Cowher after two successive losing seasons, before he won a Super Bowl, what makes any rational person think they are about to fire Tomlin now?

Exactly. Also the same could be said for Coach Noll. His combined record his first 3 seasons with the Steelers was 12-30. The Rooneys have a strong history of sticking it out through thick and thin with their coaches and like them, I'm not going to throw Tomlin under the bus for a couple of less than stellar seasons.

[fansince'76]

Exactly. Also the same could be said for Coach Noll. His combined record his first 3 seasons with the Steelers was 12-30.

Not to mention the decade of mediocrity that was the '80s. Anyone remember being 6-10 in 1986? Or 5-11 in 1988? I do. Tomlin's going to be in the Burgh for a while, for better or worse.

[Count Steeler]

Although I agree that Tomlin must take blame for his teams performance last night, it borders on insanity to think he will be fired. If the Rooney's didn't fire Cowher after two successive losing seasons, before he won a Super Bowl, what makes any rational person think they are about to fire Tomlin now?

Not that they will fire him now. But if he doesn't get his team together this week, he is in trouble. Can't just blame the lower coaches all the time. Tomlin has to bring this team together. Never mind unleashing hell, how about just showing up and making a respectable showing? I don't care how pissed off the Pats were about getting whooped by the Brownies. We were not prepared. We got whooped. We looked horrific.

[Count Steeler]

Not to mention the decade of mediocrity that was the '80s. Anyone remember being 6-10 in 1986? Or 5-11 in 1988? I do. Tomlin's going to be in the Burgh for a while, for better or worse.

I somehow get a different impression from this Rooney. He won't be quick on the trigger, but I don't think he will put up with mediocrity and embarrassments for long.

[Chidi29]

We're 6-3. Only one team has fired their coach this year.

It is beyond ludicrous to even mentioning firing Tomlin.

[steeldawg]

I somehow get a different impression from this Rooney. He won't be quick on the trigger, but I don't think he will put up with mediocrity and embarrassments for long.

LOL!! hes won a superbowl and we are tied for first in our division. We played a poor game last night but lets not lose our minds here.

[Delraich]

As others have mentioned last night was a total team loss. Every coach and or player on the team gets some blame. Also tired of catching good teams after Cleveland embarrasses them because they tend to be extra focused and our coaches seem to lack the ability to focus our players. I think we have the talent in place to win it all but I'm not sure our coaches know how to use that talent.

[JayC]

BA should have been gone last offseason. it would be stupid to fire him now. but if we implode and miss the playoffs again i want him out of town the following monday

[Count Steeler]

LOL!! hes won a superbowl and we are tied for first in our division. We played a poor game last night but lets not lose our minds here.

What we have here are some bad signs. Last year was telling for Tomlin. If this year slips away as badly as last year did, we will see what we are saying in January.

If any NFL team even considers running against us in the first half, their coach is an idiot. What Bilicheek and Brady have given is a blue print to spank the Steelers game in and game out. Pass the football, especially over McFadden and Gay. And against our offense, do what the Saints did, heavy pressure and blitzes and our offense will by stymied. Until the Steelers show they can adjust, why do anything different?

[HometownGal]

BA should have been gone last offseason. it would be stupid to fire him now. but if we implode and miss the playoffs again i want him out of town the following monday

Devils in hell want ice water too. :coffee: Thank God you aren't in the Steelers FO. :pray:

If we "implode and miss the playoffs again", the entire coaching staff - and particularly the players- will share in pressing the implosion button. You didn't watch our D give the Pats 32 of the 39 points they scored last night? :doh:

[stillers4me]

I pretty sure that BA is in the final year of his contract and I heard no talk at all before the season started that they we talking extension with him. He is either planning on retiring after this year and the FO knows it, or they have no interest beyond the end of this season. There has just got to be a couple of guys out there that are itching to get their hands on the Steelers offense and make it great.

[HometownGal]

There has just got to be a couple of guys out there that are itching to get their hands on the Steelers offense and make it great.

You could put God in the OC spot and our offense isn't going to be "great" until the ongoing OL woes are dealt with. That line (with the exception of Pouncey and most times - the Hotel Flo) is - simply put - deplorable. Though Zierlein wasn't my favorite of coaches, I never believed he was the root of that unit's problems. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

[zulater]

You could put God in the OC spot and our offense isn't going to be "great" until the ongoing OL woes are dealt with. That line (with the exception of Pouncey and most times - the Hotel Flo) is - simply put - deplorable. Though Zierlein wasn't my favorite of coaches, I never believed he was the root of that unit's problems. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Actually there are ways to negate poor offensive line play that we continue to ignore year after year. Getting the ball out in time, three step drops, all that shit teams like the Patriots reguarly employ to defuse our pass rush seems to go unnoticed by our offensive staff. I've never heard a reasonable explanation as to why?

[Chidi29]

Actually there are ways to negate poor offensive line play that we continue to ignore year after year. Getting the ball out in time, three step drops, all that shit teams like the Patriots reguarly employ to defuse our pass rush seems to go unnoticed by our offensive staff. I've never heard a reasonable explanation as to why?

Those types of throws have been there.

Either the receivers aren't getting open or Ben isn't trying to get the ball out quickly.

[pepsyman1]

You could put God in the OC spot and our offense isn't going to be "great" until the ongoing OL woes are dealt with. That line (with the exception of Pouncey and most times - the Hotel Flo) is - simply put - deplorable. Though Zierlein wasn't my favorite of coaches, I never believed he was the root of that unit's problems. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

True, but until this rash of recent injuries they have been playing much better than last season. They surely aren't filled with pro bowlers but they were looking serviceable until they started dropping like left and right. They started the year with a chip on their shoulder because they knew we didn't have Ben and HAD to depend on the run. I know that if I see Trai Essex fan on another block my head might explode...lol

[Psycho Ward 86]

Anybody who didnt watch the entire game should leave this thread right now. The stats are severely skewed. Ben threw all of his 3 TD's in garbage time against a 3 man rush, and most of his 387 during that time. Wallace had most of his catches during that time as well, including his 2 TD's. For the 1st three and a half quarters, we had no offense and the score was 29-10.


I'll give them credit though, they did make some nice plays during garbage time.

[hotrodder07]

That article unfairly puts blame on Bruce Arians for last night's struggles. It criticizes him for throwing 49 passes with two offensive lineman out, but did he really have a choice? Our defense couldn't stop the Patriots at all, and we were down by either two or three scores for basically the whole second half.

Our run game was completely ineffective from the get-go, but that can't be blamed on Arians - At least not completely. Believe me, I don't like Arians. I really never have. But you could argue that more blame should be placed on the great Dick Lebeau for having absolutely no answer to the Patriots short passing game for the entirety of the game. It was a complete collapse in every facet of the game for the Steelers. Coaching, playcalling, and execution. All were terrible.

Is Bruce to blame? Maybe partly, but so was everybody else...

[zulater]

http://captainhindsightsays.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/captain-hindsight.png

this is a job for captain Hindsight, and his trusty sidekicks, shoulda, coulda, and woulda!

:chuckle:

[Mach1]

I didn't exactly see our O tearing up the pats* 29th ranked defense either. :noidea:

[HometownGal]

That article unfairly puts blame on Bruce Arians for last night's struggles. It criticizes him for throwing 49 passes with two offensive lineman out, but did he really have a choice? Our defense couldn't stop the Patriots at all, and we were down by either two or three scores for basically the whole second half.

Our run game was completely ineffective from the get-go, but that can't be blamed on Arians - At least not completely. Believe me, I don't like Arians. I really never have. But you could argue that more blame should be placed on the great Dick Lebeau for having absolutely no answer to the Patriots short passing game for the entirety of the game. It was a complete collapse in every facet of the game for the Steelers. Coaching, playcalling, and execution. All were terrible.

Is Bruce to blame? Maybe partly, but so was everybody else...

AMEN hotrodder. :applaudit: The O sputtered like hell last night but they were playing from behind the entire game (and that gap widened during the second half) and the clock wasn't in their favor. They really had no alternative but to pass and hope to get a couple of quick scores. Wallace and El having drop-itis sure didn't help that cause.

I said it last week, last night, this morning and I'll say it again - our D and Papa Lebeau get no free pass from me no matter what the stats (which, as was proven last night, don't mean jack shit) say or how many Pro Bowls some of the D have been selected to or the fact that Lebeau is a HOF'er. Our once valiant D has some issues that need addressed and fast, as it won't be long before we're in the stretch of the season.

[NCSteeler]

Got nothing against throw 50-60 times if needed, but damn how about some hot routes, how about some gdamn timing patterns. Ben needs to learn to hit his WRs on time in stride. The WRs need to learn to run better routes that allow for it, they need to quit getting beat inside. The whole thing disgusts me. The complete lack of improvement and preparation goes to the coaches. I cut the D some slack,for one simple reason, every single rule in the last 5-10 years has given the O more and more chances and the put Defense in the history books, it's pretty clear the NFL or Goodhell will not let shutdown, frightening defense continue

[HometownGal]

The WRs need to learn to run better routes that allow for it, they need to quit getting beat inside.

And learn to hold on to very catchable passes. Both Wallace and El had oil on their hands last night. :doh:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I blame Arians for Global warming. Might as well put that game on him too.

[Psycho Ward 86]

And learn to hold on to very catchable passes. Both Wallace and El had oil on their hands last night. :doh:

Ward, Heath, and Sanders dropped passes too omfg

[HometownGal]

I blame Arians for Global warming. Might as well put that game on him too.

All this time, I thought it was the Demos love affair with Obaaaaaama that lost them the House in this latest election, but silly me - it's really Arians fault. :heh:

[Chidi29]

And learn to hold on to very catchable passes. Both Wallace and El had oil on their hands last night. :doh:

Clearly Arians fault.

:sarcasm:

[7SteelGal43]

Tomlin ain't goin nowhere !

[7SteelGal43]

BA should have been gone last offseason. it would be stupid to fire him now. but if we implode and miss the playoffs again i want him out of town the following monday

^ this

[tube517]

Jeff Reed's miss was due to Arians




I blame Arians for Global warming. Might as well put that game on him too.

[fdsannie]

Yes

[steelerdude15]

I'm not a fan of Arians, but it's a team sport. Most didn't play up to par last night.

[steelreserve]

I think a bigger problem was that we kept trying to rush 3 guys and drop everyone into coverage, which obviously wasn't going to work. That much should've been apparent after the first five minutes of the game. Every time we play that style of defense, we lose. There's a reason we gave up almost 40 points.

[Lambert_Loonie]

I think the degree of Arians hate can be absurd at times, but he needs to go after this season.

[Dino 6 Rings]

The Patriots take away what you do best. For the Steelers they always play to stuff the run first. They always do that with BB as coach. They force whatever QB we have to go out and win the game. That might have not been so bad, had Hines not gotten injured. That set our entire offense back about 8 plays. Plays that normally Ward would be open on, had other guys running the routes that missed balls off their finger tips or didn't read the blitz correctly and adjust.

The way to beat the Patriots, and I mean this, is to attack them with your strength anyway. They try to dictate you into their game, they stop your run, so that you will pass, which they are ready for. I suggest just hammering the ball at them if its what you do. Smash it right against the wall over and over and over again. Don't let them dictate to you what you will do, you have to impose your will on them, and force them to change their scheme to adjust. They don't stuff our run with blitzes as much as they do read the gaps assignments and understand the guard pulls. As soon as Mayo saw a guard pull, he hit the hole hard. That was his assignment. That happened all night on running plays. The passing game was open later in the game as they felt cofortable with a lead. They even dropped a Safety way deep to help with Wallace once it was apparent he was zooming by their corner. That should have allowed us to run even more, but by that time, we had given up on the run game, which, BB Knew would happen cause it happens every single time in games between us and the patriots.

[tube517]

Exactly what they did on Halloween 2004. They smashed Marsha in his mouth and took over physically. The Pats were more physical on Sun night. No doubt.


The Patriots take away what you do best. For the Steelers they always play to stuff the run first. They always do that with BB as coach. They force whatever QB we have to go out and win the game. That might have not been so bad, had Hines not gotten injured. That set our entire offense back about 8 plays. Plays that normally Ward would be open on, had other guys running the routes that missed balls off their finger tips or didn't read the blitz correctly and adjust.

The way to beat the Patriots, and I mean this, is to attack them with your strength anyway. They try to dictate you into their game, they stop your run, so that you will pass, which they are ready for. I suggest just hammering the ball at them if its what you do. Smash it right against the wall over and over and over again. Don't let them dictate to you what you will do, you have to impose your will on them, and force them to change their scheme to adjust. They don't stuff our run with blitzes as much as they do read the gaps assignments and understand the guard pulls. As soon as Mayo saw a guard pull, he hit the hole hard. That was his assignment. That happened all night on running plays. The passing game was open later in the game as they felt cofortable with a lead. They even dropped a Safety way deep to help with Wallace once it was apparent he was zooming by their corner. That should have allowed us to run even more, but by that time, we had given up on the run game, which, BB Knew would happen cause it happens every single time in games between us and the patriots.

[st33lersguy]

What about the alzheimer's sufferer Dick LeBeau and his prevent defense that gave up 39 points

[WindyCitySteelerFan]

Our defense in secondary is so lackluster, not to mention all it takes is for a an offensive team against us is to put in two tight ends, and we lose focus, and all of that magic is gone.... Proven quite well this past Sunday. thanks Patriots for exposing our dirty secret to the whole world... I hope LeBeau has some major D adjustments this week or every team will be rolling all over us for the next half of the season.

[Texasteel]

And learn to hold on to very catchable passes. Both Wallace and El had oil on their hands last night. :doh:

In Els case one of the drops would have gotten us a TD, and a second a 1st down in the Pats end of the field. That alone could have changed the game. Several of BA calls worked, but the players just didn't make the plays. That game was everyones fault.

Should I also mention the fair catch when no Pat player was even in the same zip code.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Our defense in secondary is so lackluster, not to mention all it takes is for a an offensive team against us is to put in two tight ends, and we lose focus, and all of that magic is gone.... Proven quite well this past Sunday. thanks Patriots for exposing our dirty secret to the whole world... I hope LeBeau has some major D adjustments this week or every team will be rolling all over us for the next half of the season.

The Patriots clearly saw something in film that showed that the 2 tight end set exposed William Gay our Nickle guy. Why are we even in a Nickle when they are in a 2 tight end set? That's exactly when you should be running a straight up and down 3-4 in my opinion with Timmons on the TE at least or the Safety helping.

Its clear the Pats put a lot of study and effort into defeating us. I think a lot of effort went into not giving up the big play, when really, we should have took away the dink and dunk crap and the Tight End and let the corners hit or miss on the big play's deep with Troy and Clark back there. Next time, It will be different I'm sure. They exposed a weakness in our defense, same thing Marino did back in 85 to the Bears. No defense is flawless, the Patriots just have a way of exposing our problems at the most critical times.

Again, we will learn from this and move forward with the season. Its Raiders Week, lets focus on that.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Should I also mention the fair catch when no Pat player was even in the same zip code.

That fair catch was on a punt of something like 40 yards with a 5 second hang time. He signalled for it early and the gunners went wide and past him by 15 yards on each side. If he doesnt signal for it, they would be standing with him waiting for it to come down.

I blame Arians for making the air lighter so that the ball was able to travel higher and thus Forcing El to have to fair catch that early.

and, if Arians had not made the air lighter, then El would not have mistimed his jump and caught that pass in the endzone.

I also think Arians and his playcalling that kept the O on the goalline instead of punching in TD's, softened the turf and caused Reed to slip on the plant and miss that FG.

YOU SEE............if you search deep enough, you can really blame Bruce Arians for the Debacle and more.

[Craic]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/pixmac-preview/stamp-approved-5.jpg

Was Bruce to blame? No more so than about 60 other guys assocciated with the Steelers last night. Total team effort, just not in the good way.


Aside from one run, our running game didn't exist.


I just crunched some numbers really quickly.

I've always talked about a better indicator of run/pass splits are ratios on first down and in the first half because the numbers can get skewed if you look at the whole game (which they were with all the garabge time).

Taking away the two minute drill at the end of the first half and here are the numbers.

First Half
Run: 11
Pass: 20

Doesn't look too good. However, keep in mind all the "and long" situations we were in. Ben would get sacked and put us in 3rd and long. There was a penalty that gave us a 1st and 20 and forced our hand to pass.

Let's look at first down numbers in the first half.

Run: 7
Pass: 4

Obviously favored toward the run.

I'm not trying to say Arians had a good game, you can't when the offense stunk as bad as it did, but considering how bad our run game looked, we tried to run the ball when we could.


Devils in hell want ice water too. :coffee: Thank God you aren't in the Steelers FO. :pray:

If we "implode and miss the playoffs again", the entire coaching staff - and particularly the players- will share in pressing the implosion button. You didn't watch our D give the Pats 32 of the 39 points they scored last night? :doh:


I blame Arians for Global warming. Might as well put that game on him too.

[Texasteel]

That fair catch was on a punt of something like 40 yards with a 5 second hang time. He signalled for it early and the gunners went wide and past him by 15 yards on each side. If he doesnt signal for it, they would be standing with him waiting for it to come down.

I blame Arians for making the air lighter so that the ball was able to travel higher and thus Forcing El to have to fair catch that early.

and, if Arians had not made the air lighter, then El would not have mistimed his jump and caught that pass in the endzone.

I also think Arians and his playcalling that kept the O on the goalline instead of punching in TD's, softened the turf and caused Reed to slip on the plant and miss that FG.

YOU SEE............if you search deep enough, you can really blame Bruce Arians for the Debacle and more.



Thanks Gonzo,,, I understand better now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I think.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Thanks Gonzo,,, I understand better now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I think.

No problem. I also blame Arians for not drafting Tony Moeaki. That kid looked good in B&G and should have been a steeler.

[43Hitman]

No problem. I also blame Arians for not drafting Tony Moeaki. That kid looked good in B&G and should have been a steeler.]

Half of this post is spot on. ;-)

[smokin3000gt]

I don't think so.. BA didn't have anything to do with Gay, or the defense getting walked all over. He also had very little to do with the dropped ball/inaccurate throws.

BTW Did anybody else notice it looked like we were afraid to tackle or even touch the brady?

[salamander]

I don't think so.. BA didn't have anything to do with Gay, or the defense getting walked all over. He also had very little to do with the dropped ball/inaccurate throws.

BTW Did anybody else notice it looked like we were afraid to tackle or even touch the brady?

I betcha Goodell was in his Brady* nob-slobbing glory.

[smokin3000gt]

Well it's the only time in recent memory that I can say that our defense looked almost timid to go after the QB.

[Wallace108]

I'm in no way blaming Arians for the loss, but I've hated on him for so long, why stop now? :noidea:

As our offense struggled early, here was Ryan Clark's take on the Patriots offense:

"They basically played ahead of the chains the whole night, (and) we can't dial up the type of things we like to. They spread us out and just took what we gave them. It was a very intelligent game plan."

Read more: http://www.thestate.com/2010/11/15/1563725/steelers-bad-loss-wont-start-09.html#ixzz15W1xEZBI

You want to keep Brady from implementing that "intelligent game plan"? Keep their offense off the field with long, sustained drives with our own "intelligent game plan." Oh yeah, we didn't have one. :doh2:

Come on ... gotta have at least a little Arians hate here. :chuckle:

[smokin3000gt]

I'm in no way blaming Arians for the loss, but I've hated on him for so long, why stop now? :noidea:

As our offense struggled early, here was Ryan Clark's take on the Patriots offense:


You want to keep Brady from implementing that "intelligent game plan"? Keep their offense off the field with long, sustained drives with our own "intelligent game plan." Oh yeah, we didn't have one. :doh2:

Come on ... gotta have at least a little Arians hate here. :chuckle:

Don't forget about the ol' fashioned eye poke.

[Wallace108]

Don't forget about the ol' fashioned eye poke.

I think the Patriots have an "intelligent game plan" for that:

http://www.rogerkramercycling.org/Images/bubba1.jpg

[zulater]

While I haven't and wont blame Arians for last weeks debacle, I do expect more of him going foward. He's got to get our passing game up to speed. It's easiar for the passing game to compensate for an inconsistent o-line than the running game, if you allow your qb to dictate the games tempo early. In other words pass on first down early in the game, work on getting the ball out of Ben's hands on time on 3 step drops, eat defenses underneath ( like the Pats did to us) use the short passing game as your running game. And then later when you force the defense to compensate you can start mixing in other aspects of the attack.

If I'm Tomlin I have Arians and Ben sit down for a couple hours every week over the normal film alloted study time to discect how Brady decontructed the Steelers defense. Take note, break it down play by play, and see what they can learn from it.


In the end this is what should determine if Arians stays or not. If Arians has already taught Ben everything he's capable of giving to him then he needs to go. Ben needs to keep growing as a qb, so unless Arians and Ben can show some mastery of the short passing game ( other than the fucking bubble screen) before the season's over he needs replacing.

[X-Terminator]

While I haven't and wont blame Arians for last weeks debacle, I do expect more of him going foward. He's got to get our passing game up to speed. It's easiar for the passing game to compensate for an inconsistent o-line than the running game, if you allow your qb to dictate the games tempo early. In other words pass on first down early in the game, work on getting the ball out of Ben's hands on time on 3 step drops, eat defenses underneath ( like the Pats did to us) use the short passing game as your running game. And then later when you force the defense to compensate you can start mixing in other aspects of the attack.

If I'm Tomlin I have Arians and Ben sit down for a couple hours every week over the normal film alloted study time to discect how Brady decontructed the Steelers defense. Take note, break it down play by play, and see what they can learn from it.


In the end this is what should determine if Arians stays or not. If Arians has already taught Ben everything he's capable of giving to him then he needs to go. Ben needs to keep growing as a qb, so unless Arians and Ben can show some mastery of the short passing game ( other than the fucking bubble screen) before the season's over he needs replacing.

I think both of them realize that the passing game needs to improve. Ben himself said so after the game, that he needed to play better in order to get the offense moving. It's also a lot easier to deconstruct a defense when you have an OL that gives you a day and a half to go through your progressions, and that said defense doesn't lay a hand on you. They will not have that luxury given the state of their OL and facing an aggressive Raiders' front 7 on Sunday.

As for getting rid of the ball quicker...that's something Ben worked on with his private trainer during his suspension, and something that the QB coach usually works with him on. He doesn't need Arians to coach him on that. The QB coach does report to Arians since he is the OC, but other than that, it's the QB coach's job to make sure Ben has good mechanics.

[HometownGal]

If Arians has already taught Ben everything he's capable of giving to him then he needs to go.

I didn't realize BA was also the QB coach too. Wow that man wears many hats - no wonder he's bald!

They don't pay their QB coach to sit around on his duff playing tiddleywinks while BA "teaches" Ben.

[zulater]

I didn't realize BA was also the QB coach too. Wow that man wears many hats - no wonder he's bald!

They don't pay their QB coach to sit around on his duff playing tiddleywinks while BA "teaches" Ben.

I don't really give a fuck who the qb coach is, all I know is that's it's long proven that the best way to compensate for a depleted o-line is to get the ball out of the qb's hands quicker, and to stay away from passing on unfavorable down and distance situations as much as possible. To me that falls on your OC, and in the end he's the one that's going to lose his job if the problem isn't addressed. So if I'm Bruce, I duck my head in on those meetings with Ben and the qb coach and whatever's possible to facilitate that happening pronto!

You want to know why Bellichick deffered the opening kickoff with the 29th ranked defense on the road? Because he knew exactly what Bruce would call on the opening set of downs, just like most of us did. And he knew he would stop it. He correctly assumed that BA would go run heavy early ( of the first 5 times the Steelers faced 1st and 10, 4 times they ran) because it worked for the Browns. Of course BB also knew the Steelers didn't have the o-line that the Browns have so he wasn't worried about giving us that opening posssession. So jam the line on first down, blitz on second and third.

[X-Terminator]

I don't really give a fuck who the qb coach is, all I know is that's it's long proven that the best way to compensate for a depleted o-line is to get the ball out of the qb's hands quicker, and to stay away from passing on unfavorable down and distance situations as much as possible. To me that falls on your OC, and in the end he's the one that's going to lose his job if the problem isn't addressed. So if I'm Bruce, I duck my head in on those meetings with Ben and the qb coach and whatever's possible to facilitate that happening pronto!

You want to know why Bellichick deffered the opening kickoff with the 29th ranked defense on the road? Because he knew exactly what Bruce would call on the opening set of downs, just like most of us did. And he knew he would stop it. He correctly assumed that BA would go run heavy early ( of the first 5 times the Steelers faced 1st and 10, 4 times they ran) because it worked for the Browns. Of course BB also knew the Steelers didn't have the o-line that the Browns have so he wasn't worried about giving us that opening posssession. So jam the line on first down, blitz on second and third.

BA only did what so many people here and a couple in the media suggested - to run the ball against New England. He does that, and when it doesn't work, he gets blasted. If he would have thrown the ball more, he would have gotten blasted. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

OK, let's see if BA does in fact go with a more pass-heavy offense this week...against the 2nd ranked team against the pass. And if it doesn't work, I don't want to hear one iota of B&Ming from you, because you asked for it.

I also find it interesting that HTG pretty much said the same thing I did, though more succinctly, and you chose HER post to go after. Very interesting indeed. And this isn't the first time either.

[Mach1]

The QB coach does report to Arians since he is the OC

Which makes airians ultimately responsible!

[smokin3000gt]

I think the Patriots have an "intelligent game plan" for that:

http://www.rogerkramercycling.org/Images/bubba1.jpg

Damn it! There's just NO beating these guys!!

[X-Terminator]

Which makes airians ultimately responsible!

Well then by that logic, Arians is responsible for the guy who worked with Ben while he was suspended.

Is there NO end for you people finding anything and everything to blame on Arians? Yes, the QB coach reports to him, but it is the QB coach's responsibility to make sure Ben is up to par with his mechanics. Why even have a QB coach if Arians is really making all the decisions? He'd just do it all himself.

[Wallace108]

Well then by that logic, Arians is responsible for the guy who worked with Ben while he was suspended.

Is there NO end for you people finding anything and everything to blame on Arians? Yes, the QB coach reports to him, but it is the QB coach's responsibility to make sure Ben is up to par with his mechanics. Why even have a QB coach if Arians is really making all the decisions? He'd just do it all himself.

When I was younger, I remember hearing someone say, "There are two kinds of men in the world ... those who like Mary Ann, and those who like Ginger." I guess there are two kinds of Steelers fans: Those who like Bruce Arians, and those who don't. Chances are, the two sides will never agree, so we might as well enjoy the debate.


Oh, and for you youngsters who don't get the Mary Ann and Ginger reference:

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1002/ginger-or-mary-ann-desert-island-demotivational-poster-1265034641.jpg

[zulater]

BA only did what so many people here and a couple in the media suggested - to run the ball against New England. He does that, and when it doesn't work, he gets blasted. If he would have thrown the ball more, he would have gotten blasted. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

OK, let's see if BA does in fact go with a more pass-heavy offense this week...against the 2nd ranked team against the pass. And if it doesn't work, I don't want to hear one iota of B&Ming from you, because you asked for it.

I also find it interesting that HTG pretty much said the same thing I did, though more succinctly, and you chose HER post to go after. Very interesting indeed. And this isn't the first time either.

Maybe it's because I don't give a fuck what you have to say and I do her? Moreso now after you made that silly comment.

[tube517]

Mary Ann :yup: :love2:



When I was younger, I remember hearing someone say, "There are two kinds of men in the world ... those who like Mary Ann, and those who like Ginger." I guess there are two kinds of Steelers fans: Those who like Bruce Arians, and those who don't. Chances are, the two sides will never agree, so we might as well enjoy the debate.

[Mach1]

Well then by that logic, Arians is responsible for the guy who worked with Ben while he was suspended.

Was he under steeler employment?

[Wallace108]

Mary Ann :yup: :love2:

It was always a trick question. You take the threesome. :thumbsup:

[zulater]

Well then by that logic, Arians is responsible for the guy who worked with Ben while he was suspended.

Is there NO end for you people finding anything and everything to blame on Arians? Yes, the QB coach reports to him, but it is the QB coach's responsibility to make sure Ben is up to par with his mechanics. Why even have a QB coach if Arians is really making all the decisions? He'd just do it all himself.

The gameplan is on the OC. The seeming inability or perhaps lack of desire to hone the short passing game falls on Arians imo. And in my unknowledgable opinion when it's fairly obvious you can't pass block worth a damn with the bodies you're about to line up the best way to neutralize the pass rush is to utilize the short passing game.

Ben will never be a great qb until as Steve Young says he starts to consistently get the ball out in time. If our current offensive coaching staff can't get Ben to that level then it's time to start looking for one that can. It all starts and ends with the OC imo. The other offensive coaches are subordinate to him.

[X-Terminator]

Was he under steeler employment?

Obviously not, but of course the point has been missed.

Listen, I have my own disagreements with Arians and his offense. Some of you guys act like anyone who doesn't automatically pin every and any problem with the offense on the OC is somehow an "Arians lover." It's bogus. Does he have his issues? Yes, of course. I'm not completely blind to them. I just understand that there are other factors that go into the failure or success of the offense and can't pin the blame on Arians and ONLY Arians.

[GodfatherofSoul]

Mary Anne is still pretty good looking.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3750074112/nm0920171

Ginger? Not so much

[Craic]

The gameplan is on the OC.
Yes, but the following of the gameplan and the execution is on the QB and secondly, the offense. They also deserve the blame, because there are a number of times Ben changes the play at the line.


The seeming inability or perhaps lack of desire to hone the short passing game falls on Arians imo.
Have you been to their practices to see if they are doing that? Just because Ben chooses NOT TO play the short pass game doesn't meant Arians has or has not worked on it. ALSO, just because it isn't working, doesn't mean Ben isn't trying to accomplish it. We have a SECOND YEAR RECEIVER and ROOKIE RECEIVER taking up the number 2 and 3 slots. Route running isn't as simple as flag football's "You run a 10 yard flag, you run a fly pattern, you run a post". It takes knowledge, skill, perception, etc. to play the position and run the PROPER pattern, to know when to break it off, to know when to run the hot route, to know when to ad-lib and run the deep route (are you REALLY uncovered, or is a safety just baiting you?) etc. No, these are ALL issues with our short pass game now.



And in my unknowledgable opinion when it's fairly obvious you can't pass block worth a damn with the bodies you're about to line up the best way to neutralize the pass rush is to utilize the short passing game.
Nope. You would only do that if you were a pass-first, pass to set up the run type offense. Since we still fancy ourselves as a run first offense, you MUST THROW THE BALL DEEP to keep the "9 men in a box" defensive postures at bay. Short passes do NOTHING For that, since the safeties are right up to break up the passes anyway. You must go over their heads. That pushes them back, and allows the RB's to not deal with 2-4 extra players in the box.


Ben will never be a great qb until as Steve Young says he starts to consistently get the ball out in time. Probably right.


If our current offensive coaching staff can't get Ben to that level then it's time to start looking for one that can. It all starts and ends with the OC imo. The other offensive coaches are subordinate to him.
No, it all starts with Ben and HIS decision making. How do you know Ben hasn't chosen to hit the short receiver when the play called for it? How do you know that our receivers aren't making rookie mistakes? Funny thing, Leftwich two years ago, and Batch BOTH were hitting short passes quickly, with a few deep throws. Seems to me, that there are plenty of plays for the short pass. Did they all get thrown away when Ben came back, or does Ben choose to not make use of them... even when they are called?

[steeldawg]

Why dont we just look at the hurry up offense. When we run this offense and Ben is calling the plays and making checks at the line , we seem to move right down the field .

[zulater]

Ok Preach, let's keep Arians and get rid of Ben after the season's over then. All Hail Bruce the Great!

[Mach1]

Just put it this way. When the Steelers win it's all because of bruce the great. But when the steelers lose he's excused of any and all culpability.

[Texasteel]

Just put it this way. When the Steelers win it's all because of bruce the great. But when the steelers lose he's excused of any and all culpability.

I don't think its like that at all, but I will say that to some he is to blame for everything that go's wrong. Even on defense.

[Prok]

Why dont we just look at the hurry up offense. When we run this offense and Ben is calling the plays and making checks at the line , we seem to move right down the field .

Yep. It should be our base offense by now IMO. It's our bread and butter.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Patriots Defense = 18th against the Rush.
Mendhenhall, 11 carries for the game.

Raiders Defense = 24th against the Rush
I'm guessing that means Mendy gets 7 carries for the game.

Plenty of blame to go around for the entire game, the entire loss, from having to settle for a 3 point attempt when you have 1st and goal from the 4, to a Rookie TE eating up your nickle back all day and not adjusting...I'm just a little tired of the "out think the room" crap I see from some of our coaches.

Sometimes, you have to just line up and run the fcking ball against a team that Can't Stop The Fcking Run.

[Chidi29]

Patriots Defense = 18th against the Rush.
Mendhenhall, 11 carries for the game.

Raiders Defense = 24th against the Rush
I'm guessing that means Mendy gets 7 carries for the game.

Plenty of blame to go around for the entire game, the entire loss, from having to settle for a 3 point attempt when you have 1st and goal from the 4, to a Rookie TE eating up your nickle back all day and not adjusting...I'm just a little tired of the "out think the room" crap I see from some of our coaches.

Sometimes, you have to just line up and run the fcking ball against a team that Can't Stop The Fcking Run.

Game carries skew data, especially in a game where we were getting blown out and down 23-3 in the 3rd quarter.

We had a 7/4 run to pass ratio on first down at halftime. We were running it when we could.

[HometownGal]

Just put it this way. When the Steelers win it's all because of bruce the great. But when the steelers lose he's excused of any and all culpability.

When the Defense shits the bed, MACH, as they did for the second half of last season as well as coming dangerously close a couple of times this season - not to mention being used as toilet paper by Ass Chin & Co. - it is not only illogical and unfair but just plain idiotic to pin the blame on the OC. :doh:

P.S. The same can be said for you BA haters. When he calls a good game (as he has done most of this season imho), not a one of you opens your yap and gives him props. It's almost like the BAHC sit like vultures waiting to attack if the man calls one play that doesn't work. Not only is it silly - it's sad.

[Mach1]

When the Defense shits the bed, MACH, as they did for the second half of last season as well as coming dangerously close a couple of times this season - not to mention being used as toilet paper by Ass Chin & Co. - it is not only illogical and unfair but just plain idiotic to pin the blame on the OC. :doh:

P.S. The same can be said for you BA haters. When he calls a good game (as he has done most of this season imho), not a one of you opens your yap and gives him props. It's almost like the BAHC sit like vultures waiting to attack if the man calls one play that doesn't work. Not only is it silly - it's sad.

I wasn't talking about the D thats a whole other can of worms. As I said earlier in this thread it was a total TEAM meltdown.
I don't know about you but we have more fire power on O than to be ranked 24th. :doh:

[Wallace108]

The same can be said for you BA haters. When he calls a good game (as he has done most of this season imho), not a one of you opens your yap and gives him props. It's almost like the BAHC sit like vultures waiting to attack if the man calls one play that doesn't work. Not only is it silly - it's sad.

I opened my yap and gave BA props when Ben was out. But ever since he got his favorite weapon back, he's returned to his old brain-dead self.

People want to blame injuries on the O-line for our offensive struggles, but as I've stated elsewhere, good coaching can, to some degree, overcome injuries. When we played the Saints, they had a backup and I believe a waterboy playing corners ... and they shut us down. The Patriots have a young, inexperienced defense ... yet they held us in check until garbage time. (Yeah, we had some dropped passes in the end zone, but don't we always say a game isn't decided on one or two plays?)

When our O-line is healthy, it's mediocre at best. With the injuries we've suffered, it's horrible. But yet BA doesn't believe in changing his game plan to adapt to the hand he's been dealt. This is from a Q&A with him:


Q: Have injuries along the offensive line affected the play calling, especially since you've had your share of them during games?

A: “You can’t change what your game plan is, you just expect the next guy to step up and play and it gets taxing after awhile when it happens every damn week.”

You can't change your game plan ... you just expect the next guy to step up and play? That might be a nice motivational speech for the guy stepping in, but it's not a good philosophy for a successful offense. You have to adapt. He did it when Ben was out, but he won't do it with injuries on the O-line. That's just pure stupidity. That's just pure Bruce Arians.

[Mach1]

That's just pure stupidity. That's just pure Bruce Arians.

Quote of the year. :toofunny:

[zulater]

Game carries skew data, especially in a game where we were getting blown out and down 23-3 in the 3rd quarter.

We had a 7/4 run to pass ratio on first down at halftime. We were running it when we could.

Fact is the Patriots began the night as the 29th ranked defense, we were at home, they deffered the opening kick, and proved it to be the right decision. That says a lot to me, the fact that they had that little respect for our offense to kick off when their defense has been struggling much of the season.

It will be interesting to see if the they deffer to the Colts if the Colts lose the coin toss this Sunday?

[Mach1]

Some interesting reading.



Pittsburgh Steelers: The Bruce Arian Mistake and Look at Steel City's Struggles
By Nick DeWitt (Steelers Featured Columnist) on November 17, 2010

After the 2006 NFL season concluded, the Pittsburgh Steelers went into a transition that saw, among other things, Mike Tomlin replace Bill Cowher as head coach and Bruce Arians replace Ken Whisenhunt as offensive coordinator.

Things have gone downhill for Arians, who in his second stop as an NFL offensive coordinator is proving to be an anvil around the necks of a talented offensive unit.

If the Steelers are to have any hope of making the playoffs and then a run at the Super Bowl title, they need to either relieve Arians of his duties or force him to make the following changes to the team's offense.


This may be a news flash to Bruce Arians, but you cannot use the same game plan against every team. In an era of unprecedented video footage, camera angles, and computer analysis, you can barely use the same formations and plays against two different teams.

Arians likes to run the same sort of plan each week. First, he tries to establish the run by sending Rashard Mendenhall up the middle a couple of times. Then he calls a bubble screen to Hines Ward. Then, if it's not time for a punt, he runs the ball again or has Ben Roethlisberger throw out of a bunch formation.

Every week. I'm not joking.

The worst thing that could have happened was for Art Rooney to openly demand a return to power football. It gave Arians the license he needed to continue the run, run, pass offense that he's come to favor.

The Steelers are so predictable that even pedestrian NFL fans can, with a little time watching them on offense, call the plays for Arians.

Veteran NFL coaches? They're eating this up. They know with a great deal of certainty that the offense will be relatively balanced, but that running plays will come on early downs, passes on third downs, and that the Steelers use relatively few formations.

Don't you think it's time for something new?


Every NFL team has plays that they are comfortable running and that have a high degree of success with their personnel.

Conversely, every team has plays that they simply cannot get to work. Good teams and smart coaches don't run those plays very often. Sometimes, they'll work by accident or because of the element of surprise, but they know that more often than not they fail.

Not Pittsburgh. Here's a look at some of the plays that Bruce Arians calls that either consistently fail or fly in the face of the team's personnel:

1. Wide Receiver Bubble Screens

It's dangerous, especially without tall receivers, to throw passes along the line of scrimmage. There are too many bodies there who can mess things up. Also, if that pass is picked off, it's almost certainly a touchdown. Most teams don't run bubble screens because of this. If you have a tall receiver, sometimes it's more simple because you can chuck it high enough that only that player can get the ball.

Pittsburgh doesn't just run this play. The Steelers run in regularly. They almost always throw towards Hines Ward too. Teams are starting to catch onto this and it's a shock that they've taken this long. The Steelers were a good screen (not bubble screen) team with Willie Parker. Now, it's an unhealthy obsession. Even when complete, the yardage is minimal.



2. The Stretch and the Toss

When you have a speedster at running back, it makes sense to use a toss/stretch play because the play then begins at the corner. All the running back has to do is run forward and possibly skip a tackle to gain positive yards.

When you don't have a lightning fast runner, it's a death sentence because slower backs start further back with the ball and aren't built to get outside and run up the sideline. A better choice would be off-tackle runs, where the running back gets the ball to the outside of center but only must hit a hole and run through it.

Pittsburgh has run the stretch/toss play for years. It doesn't seem to matter who's on the roster either. None of the team's backs is capable of being a blazing runner. Rashard Mendenhall is great off tackle, cutting back, and going through the middle. He's not an outside runner. But Bruce Arians has no problem sending in this type of play, which almost always results in zero or negative yardage.


read more here (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/520227-pittsburgh-steelers-the-bruce-arians-mistake-a-look-at-steel-citys-struggles#page/1)

[The WH]

bleacher report?

I trust Mark Madden before them..

[Chidi29]

Fact is the Patriots began the night as the 29th ranked defense, we were at home, they deffered the opening kick, and proved it to be the right decision. That says a lot to me, the fact that they had that little respect for our offense to kick off when their defense has been struggling much of the season.

It will be interesting to see if the they deffer to the Colts if the Colts lose the coin toss this Sunday?

I never said it was a good offensive night for us or it has been smooth sailing throughout the year. It obviously hasn't.

But I wasn't talking about that broader point. I was specifically talking about how much we ran the ball.

[Chidi29]

I was going to respond to the article and the stupidity of it, but then I saw the bleacher report link. Moving on...

[Dino 6 Rings]

I wonder if I can write for that site...

bet I could...

[The WH]

I wonder if I can write for that site...

bet I could...
dude...I could write for them....with half of my keyboard keys missing

[SMR]

dude...I could write for them....with half of my keyboard keys missing

:toofunny::toofunny::toofunny:

[Bluecoat96]

I bet even Tim Lumber could write for that site. Well....maybe not.

[Wallace108]

It's being reported that three teams are interested in Bruce Arians as their next head coach.

Read more here: www.nofuckingway.com

[Mach1]

The BA truth hurts.

[Chidi29]

The BA truth hurts.

Except the ones that are fabricated with baseless claims.

[Psycho Ward 86]

It's being reported that three teams are interested in Bruce Arians as their next head coach.

Read more here: www.nofuckingway.com

Yeaaaahh ok

[Wallace108]

Yeaaaahh ok

Obviously I was joking around, but there's some sad truth to my sarcasm. We've had quite a few coordinators under Cowher who were offered head coaching jobs ... Dom Capers, Chan Gailey, Mike Mularkey, Jim Haslett, Ken Whisenhunt. How often does BA's name come up when a team is looking for a head coach? :scratchchin:
Why aren't teams trampling over each other to steal the offensive genius away from us? :noidea:

[Chidi29]

Obviously I was joking around, but there's some sad truth to my sarcasm. We've had quite a few coordinators under Cowher who were offered head coaching jobs ... Dom Capers, Chan Gailey, Mike Mularkey, Jim Haslett, Ken Whisenhunt. How often does BA's name come up when a team is looking for a head coach? :scratchchin:
Why aren't teams trampling over each other to steal the offensive genius away from us? :noidea:

To be a successful assistant coach you must be wanted as a head coach?

Dick Hoak and John Mitchell would disagree. LeBeau, to an extent (poor record as a head coach) would apply as well.

[Wallace108]

To be a successful assistant coach you must be wanted as a head coach?

Dick Hoak and John Mitchell would disagree. LeBeau, to an extent (poor record as a head coach) would apply as well.

Teams generally don't give a head coaching job to a position coach, so that rules out Hoak and Mitchell. But when an offensive or defensive coordinator are respected, their names at least get mentioned for head-coaching vacancies. After we won Super Bowl XL, Whisenhunt's name popped up everywhere there was a vacancy. After we won Super Bowl XLIII, where was the demand for Arians?

[Chidi29]

Teams generally don't give a head coaching job to a position coach, so that rules out Hoak and Mitchell. But when an offensive or defensive coordinator are respected, their names at least get mentioned for head-coaching vacancies. After we won Super Bowl XL, Whisenhunt's name popped up everywhere there was a vacancy. After we won Super Bowl XLIII, where was the demand for Arians?

Why did Hoak and Mitchell never become coordinators? It certainly isn't because they were/are bad position coaches.

[Wallace108]

Why did Hoak and Mitchell never become coordinators? It certainly isn't because they were/are bad position coaches.

Chidi, when it comes to Steelers history, I'll defer to you ... you've got a wealth of knowledge. Were Hoak and Mitchell ever offered coordinator jobs? Or were their names ever mentioned when there were openings? When coaches are as successful as they have been, I'd find it hard to believe that their names were never mentioned. Could it be that they were happy where they're at and didn't want to take the next step? I honestly don't know the answer to that. But what I do know is that every year when teams are looking for a head coach, the hottest coordinators' names get tossed around. And I NEVER hear BA's name mentioned.

[Chidi29]

Chidi, when it comes to Steelers history, I'll defer to you ... you've got a wealth of knowledge. Were Hoak and Mitchell ever offered coordinator jobs? Or were their names ever mentioned when there were openings? When coaches are as successful as they have been, I'd find it hard to believe that their names were never mentioned. Could it be that they were happy where they're at and didn't want to take the next step? I honestly don't know the answer to that. But what I do know is that every year when teams are looking for a head coach, the hottest coordinators' names get tossed around. And I NEVER hear BA's name mentioned.

I can't say for certain, but I don't recall ever hearing about either one of them having a strong chance of landing a coordinator gig anywhere. It would make sense that they'd like to move up unless assured of a job in-house if they stayed a while longer (a la what appears to be going on with Keith Butler).

Let me go straight to the major point I was going to make.

I don't know what kind of head coach Arians could be or what interest he is drawing. Maybe he'd be a horrible head coach. Being a head coach and being an offensive coordinator are very different positions with a seperate set of expectations and roles.

Just because you can't cut it as a head coach, doesn't mean you're not qualified to excel in a "lesser" role.

[Wallace108]

I don't know what kind of head coach Arians could be or what interest he is drawing. Maybe he'd be a horrible head coach. Being a head coach and being an offensive coordinator are very different positions with a seperate set of expectations and roles.

Just because you can't cut it as a head coach, doesn't mean you're not qualified to excel in a "lesser" role.

I couldn't agree more. Some really good coordinators aren't cut out to be head coaches (see: Norv Turner, Wade Phillips). But that doesn't stop teams from wanting them as head coaches. Like you, I really don't know if BA could cut it as a head coach or not (although I have my suspicions). The point I'm trying to make is that if other teams respected his ability as a coach, you'd hear his name mentioned when there are head coaching vacancies.

[Wallace108]

Chidi,
We don't agree on Arians, but at least we were able to have a respectful debate about him. Mad props to you, my friend. :drink:

[HometownGal]

I don't know what kind of head coach Arians could be or what interest he is drawing. Maybe he'd be a horrible head coach. Being a head coach and being an offensive coordinator are very different positions with a seperate set of expectations and roles.

Just because you can't cut it as a head coach, doesn't mean you're not qualified to excel in a "lesser" role.

A lot of NFL coordinators are invited to be HC's and it simply doesn't work out for them as they are much better suited to be coordinators. Dick Lebeau is a prime example of that. He was hired as the Bungles DC in 1997, promoted to HC in 2000 and fired in 2002. Though I am a well known BA supporter in his present position as OC, I can honestly say that I do not believe he would make a good HC.

[Chidi29]

Chidi,
We don't agree on Arians, but at least we were able to have a respectful debate about him. Mad props to you, my friend. :drink:

Same to you.

[Chidi29]

A lot of NFL coordinators are invited to be HC's and it simply doesn't work out for them as they are much better suited to be coordinators. Dick Lebeau is a prime example of that. He was hired as the Bungles DC in 1997, promoted to HC in 2000 and fired in 2002. Though I am a well known BA supporter in his present position as OC, I can honestly say that I do not believe he would make a good HC.

I'd tend to agree.

However, Arians should be judged as an OC based on what he is doing in that role. Not by the level the interest in a completely different role.

[Chidi29]

Two other reasons why Arians doesn't drum up a lot of interest.

1. Age. He's 58. Could make a lot of people feel like they found the Fountain of Youth if he ever went onto that "how many days have you been alive" site. :chuckle:

2. This is more total speculation from my part, but maybe his medical history is a factor? He did have prostrate cancer.

[tube517]

Just of curiosity, do you think he is in the top 5 of the OC's out there?



I'd tend to agree.

However, Arians should be judged as an OC based on what he is doing in that role. Not by the level the interest in a completely different role.

[Chidi29]

Just of curiosity, do you think he is in the top 5 of the OC's out there?

I don't have an actual list, but probably not.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Just of curiosity, do you think he is in the top 5 of the OC's out there?

IMO, not even close. Personally I think that he's average at best. He's way too predictable and doesn't do a good job of making adjustments during the game.

[Count Steeler]

One thing I seem to remember about the Cowher era was that he seemed to loose an assistant coach every year. Cowher had an uncanny ability to pick great coaches to work under him. Have any of Tomlin's assistants been swept away to become head coaches? Has anyone even asked to interview them?

[tube517]

Lou Spanos (to the Skins) is the only one I know that left for another team but he's not a head coach.



One thing I seem to remember about the Cowher era was that he seemed to loose an assistant coach every year. Cowher had an uncanny ability to pick great coaches to work under him. Have any of Tomlin's assistants been swept away to become head coaches? Has anyone even asked to interview them?

[Chidi29]

One thing I seem to remember about the Cowher era was that he seemed to loose an assistant coach every year. Cowher had an uncanny ability to pick great coaches to work under him. Have any of Tomlin's assistants been swept away to become head coaches? Has anyone even asked to interview them?

Tomlin is still a fairly new coach who hadn't changed his staff very much until last year. LeBeau isn't going to be a HC candidate and Arians doesn't seem like one either. As said, usually only coordinators get looked at HC jobs.

Keith Butler has been a hot commodity for a DC spot, but he has remained loyal to the team in what appears to be a DC-in-waiting situation.

[Craic]

Ok Preach, let's keep Arians and get rid of Ben after the season's over then. All Hail Bruce the Great!

Ahh, the "Let's push this to absurdity so we don't have to deal with the actual points made argument"

Ok. Sure, why not. Though... I don't know why you would like Bruce so much to call him "Bruce the Great". He isn't that good of a coordinator. I would take it as your sarcasm, but since I don't really have that high of an opinion of BA... not sure how it could be sarcastic.

[zulater]

Why did Hoak and Mitchell never become coordinators? It certainly isn't because they were/are bad position coaches.

Actually from what I understand Hoak made it pretty clear early in his coaching career he had no desire to leave the city of Pittsbugh for other coaching opportunities.

[Chidi29]

Actually from what I understand Hoak made it pretty clear early in his coaching career he had no desire to leave the city of Pittsbugh for other coaching opportunities.

Did they ever garner interest?

[zulater]

Did they ever garner interest?



Yeah I know for a fact that Hoak had several offers outside the Steelers orginization, Tony Dungy tried to bring him down to Tampa Bay when he first got the job there, and Bud Carson had tried to get him to go to the Browns way back in the day. I can't find you a link, but I remember hearing Dungy talking about it recently in a radio interview.

[Craic]

I can't find you a link, but I remember hearing Dungy talking about it recently in a radio interview.

Hate it when this happens. I hear something on the radio or TV... then try to find it online.. and its gone. :doh:

[Mach1]

Ahh, the "Let's push this to absurdity so we don't have to deal with the actual points made argument"

Ok. Sure, why not. Though... I don't know why you would like Bruce so much to call him "Bruce the Great". He isn't that good of a coordinator. I would take it as your sarcasm, but since I don't really have that high of an opinion of BA... not sure how it could be sarcastic.

So what your saying is BA sucks as a OC.

[zulater]

Hate it when this happens. I hear something on the radio or TV... then try to find it online.. and its gone. :doh:

In this case, it was a while ago, and a bit obscure of story, so I'm not sure where to even begin looking.

[Wallace108]

In this case, it was a while ago, and a bit obscure of story, so I'm not sure where to even begin looking.

Hoak has had opportunities to leave. In 1985, Hoak could have become the head coach of the USFL's Pittsburgh Maulers. But he decided it would be disloyal to the Rooney family, the Steelers' owners who had treated him so well as a player and coach, to take a job with a team in another league.

When former Steelers assistant Tony Dungy became head coach of the Buccaneers in 1996, he asked Hoak to join him as offensive coordinator. "I knew we were going to be a running team down there in Tampa with what we had, and he would have been perfect," says Dungy, now the coach of the Colts. Hoak was flattered, but he turned down the offer. His roots were too firmly entrenched.

So what has kept Hoak tethered to Pittsburgh for so long? Family was high on his priority list. He and his wife, Lynn, have relatives in Greensburg and Jeannette. He wanted daughters Kelly and Katie and son Rich to grow up in a stable environment, where they could develop lasting friendships. Except for when Kelly went to first grade in Wheeling, W.Va., all three children went to the same grade school and high school, Hempfield Township, then went on to Penn State.

Another reason was, simply, convenience. Hoak always knew whom to call or where to go if he needed a doctor or a dentist, a new roof or a new furnace, or some financial advice. "I figured that was worth a lot more than just moving somewhere for more money," he says.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_34_228/ai_n6165495/

[Craic]

I bet even Tim Lumber could write for that site. Well....maybe not.

Let's not stretch it quite THAT far.... :chuckle:

[polamalubeast]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_710534.html

Quotes

Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, on play-calling in the wake of constant flux on the offensive line, particularly in-game injuries:

"You can't change what your game plan is, you just expect the next guy to step up and play, and it gets taxing after awhile when it happens every damn week."

Steelers inside linebacker James Farrior, on Troy Polamalu's play (interception, tackle for loss, two passes defensed) in the 35-3 win over the Raiders:

"I don't know if he free-lanced more, but I think he's one of the most competitive guys on the team. And (the 39-26 loss to the Patriots) gave us a lot of motivation to show that we're not that type of team."

[vasteeler]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_710534.html

Quotes

Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, on play-calling in the wake of constant flux on the offensive line, particularly in-game injuries:

"You can't change what your game plan is, you just expect the next guy to step up and play, and it gets taxing after awhile when it happens every damn week."

Steelers inside linebacker James Farrior, on Troy Polamalu's play (interception, tackle for loss, two passes defensed) in the 35-3 win over the Raiders:

"I don't know if he free-lanced more, but I think he's one of the most competitive guys on the team. And (the 39-26 loss to the Patriots) gave us a lot of motivation to show that we're not that type of team."

now lets walk the walk