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Steeldude
11-15-2010, 12:06 PM
here are a few of my thoughts which i decided to post rather quickly. take them for what they are worth. maybe some of it is affected by how very poorly the steelers played last night.

is it just me or does it feel like the farther the steelers get from the cowher era the more undisciplined and untalented the team becomes? i know that pouncey is looking good, but i am talking as a whole. excluding pouncey, look across the entire O-line. what do you see? the steelers want to run, right? you can't do that with an untalented and confused O-line.

besides polamalu, who in the secondary strikes fear into opponents? to make matters worse the steelers have decided to stay with the terrifying 3-man rushes(if you can call them that). last season lebeau admitted to playing a passive defense because of the injury to polamalu. how did that work out? what's the story this year?

the reason the steelers run defense is good is because rarely does anyone attempt to run on the steelers. why run when passing on them is so absurdly easy? it's no secret how the patriots own the steelers.

now i may have exaggerated slightly with some of the terms i chose, but i think you know where i am going with it.

i would like to know what other steelers' see/think.

oneforthetoe
11-15-2010, 12:27 PM
is it just me or does it feel like the farther the steelers get from the cowher era the more undisciplined and untalented the team becomes? i know that pouncey is looking good, but i am talking as a whole. excluding pouncey, look across the entire O-line. what do you see? the steelers want to run, right? you can't do that with an untalented and confused O-line.

I think it is a bit unfair to suggest that Pouncy is the only talented player brought in under Tomlin. I'd say Timmons, Woodley, Menndenhall and Wallace are all potential rising stars in the league. Hood has been steady if not spectacular and Jason Worilds has the look of a player at least. And yes, we have a veteran team. There will be some drop off at some point while we retool, regardless of who the coach is. I still love Cowher Power, but how quickly we all forget the same hand ringing over losing seasons in 98, 99 and 03.



the reason the steelers run defense is good is because rarely does anyone attempt to run on the steelers. why run when passing on them is so absurdly easy? it's no secret how the patriots own the steelers.

The comment is not completely without merit (Although it does remind me a bit of the comment by Yogi Berra about a restaurant that was so crowded that nobody goes there anymore). I'd say the running stats are skewed a bit by teams giving up early on the run. However, the Titans and Browns, for example, certainly would have been happy to run the ball on us all day long if they had been able. But, of course, they were not able to do so. Also, I believe we were giving up less than 3 yards a carry before last night. That is impressive no matter the effectiveness of our pass defense.


now i may have exaggerated slightly with some of the terms i chose, but i think you know where i am going with it.



A fan at Steelers Universe exaggerate? Never going to happen.:chuckle:

tube517
11-15-2010, 12:31 PM
I have a different opinion. This is built to be a gambling defense that relies on turnovers and sacks. It has won 2 Super Bowls since it's been instilled in 1992. I'm not going to bash Arians (although I don't like him as the OC). But this defense also is not built to stay on the field for long (Troy has even said so), which means the offense has to have more possessions and longer sustained drives. They have always been susceptible to the pass, even in LeBeau's first stint as DC. Too many 3 and outs kills any momentum for this defense. 2008, yes we won the Super Bowl but we got out in front in the playoff games and held on to the leads. (Baltimore and Arizone stayed close). Same thing in 2005, got out in front quick and let the defense hold on.

Passing teams can beat the defense. Accurate passers who get rid of the ball quickly (Brees, Manning, Tom Fucking Brady, Warner) will give the defense fits. No turnovers and no sacks against Brady? Can't win. When they did beat Brady on Halloween 2004 - 4 sacks 4 turnovers. Last night nothing.

As far as the OL, other than Pouncey, it is an average line, at best, mediocre overall. The OL coach has done very well with what he has dealt with, IMHO.

In our dreamworld, I wish they would take an OL and/or CB in the first 2 rounds. Will it happen? Doubtful.

7SteelGal43
11-15-2010, 12:43 PM
Personally, I'm sick and tired of the giant cushions our secondary is giving to opposing WRs. And I wanna see our D play much tougher, much more aggressively. I have seen a change in our entire D since Harrison got that second fine. And it seems our O-line has taken a step back from the improvement they were showing at the beginning of the season.

Steeldude
11-15-2010, 01:12 PM
I think it is a bit unfair to suggest that Pouncy is the only talented player brought in under Tomlin

i was mainly talking about the O-line. i should have worded it differently.

Godfather
11-15-2010, 01:22 PM
The O-line was missing three starters last night. They looked good earlier in the season and unlike the last couple of years we at least have a chance to pick up one or two yards for a first down.

ALLD
11-15-2010, 01:26 PM
The team came out flat (not warmed up properly?) and got their butts handed to them at home. I will fall out of my chair if the Pats get fined for the helmet-to-helmet hits.

The Steelers can either pack it in for the rest of the season or they can step up and compete for another championship. Most likely the last seasons of Aaron and Hines. One more for the road.

tube517
11-15-2010, 01:30 PM
I agree with that. This is probably the last shot for the older vets (Hines, A.Smith, Keisel, Farrior, Hampton)


The team came out flat (not warmed up properly?) and got their butts handed to them at home. I will fall out of my chair if the Pats get fined for the helmet-to-helmet hits.

The Steelers can either pack it in for the rest of the season or they can step up and compete for another championship. Most likely the last seasons of Aaron and Hines. One more for the road.

7SteelGal43
11-15-2010, 03:16 PM
The O-line was missing three starters last night. They looked good earlier in the season and unlike the last couple of years we at least have a chance to pick up one or two yards for a first down.

Point taken. Let's get 'em healthy and get 'em back :)

silver & black
11-15-2010, 03:50 PM
Didn't you guys just win two Superbowls in five years?

NO ONE stays on top forever... not even the Steelers.

VTsteel
11-15-2010, 04:01 PM
In our dreamworld, I wish they would take an OL and/or CB in the first 2 rounds. Will it happen? Doubtful.

I tend to agree with ths . . . Our draft history has borne a strategy of obtaining the Best Player Available. Left Tackles and Corner Backs seem to never be around when we pick in the 1st round. Something obviously has to give . . .

Mr. Colbert are you listening?

Count Steeler
11-15-2010, 04:15 PM
If Gay and McFadden are ahead of Lewis and Butler, did we waste 2 more draft picks. Surely Lewis or Butler can't be much worse. At least you can blame any mistakes they make on their lack of experience. Gay and McFadden are out of excuses.

HughC
11-15-2010, 04:47 PM
Personally, I'm sick and tired of the giant cushions our secondary is giving to opposing WRs. And I wanna see our D play much tougher, much more aggressively. I have seen a change in our entire D since Harrison got that second fine. And it seems our O-line has taken a step back from the improvement they were showing at the beginning of the season.
An aggressive, attacking defense is a lot more fun for fans to watch because of the big plays that result. But keep in mind when you go that route you are also much more susceptible to getting torched and giving up big plays.

The bend-don't-break style that forces an opposing offense to put together long drives often results in those other teams making a mistake which results in turnovers. The Steelers entered the game leading the league in turnover ratio, so I can't really complain with the results - though I agree it can at times be exasperating to watch.

It also really helps if you have an elite corner if you are going to blitz more often.

oneforthetoe
11-15-2010, 04:52 PM
i was mainly talking about the O-line. i should have worded it differently.


No problem. And I think the Steelers as a whole have ignored the offensive line even in Cowher's final few seasons. Well, ignore might not be the correct term. More like they have seemed content to fill their O'line with projects for almost a decade instead of blue chippers.

HometownGal
11-15-2010, 04:55 PM
Didn't you guys just win two Superbowls in five years?

NO ONE stays on top forever... not even the Steelers.

Yes but damn it - we want more! ;) :tt02:

You are correct but a lot of Steelers fans refuse to believe that all teams go through good seasons and bad, even (God forbid) our beloved Steelers. I think it is blatantly obvious that we have some rebuilding to do - particularly on the D - and it isn't going to happen overnight. Sure I'd love to see the Steelers win the division and the Super Bowl every single solitary season, but in a real world, I know that is impossible.

oneforthetoe
11-15-2010, 04:58 PM
I agree with that. This is probably the last shot for the older vets (Hines, A.Smith, Keisel, Farrior, Hampton)


I don't think Hampton will retire he is having a very good season and had a new contract. I'm thinking Keisel and Hines will be here another season at least. However, I would not be surprised if Snith is gone after this season. A sad day, truly, for the Steelers.

oneforthetoe
11-15-2010, 05:00 PM
Yes but damn it - we want more! ;) :tt02:

You are correct but a lot of Steelers fans refuse to believe that all teams go through good seasons and bad, even (God forbid) our beloved Steelers. I think it is blatantly obvious that we have some rebuilding to do - particularly on the D - and it isn't going to happen overnight. Sure I'd love to see the Steelers win the division and the Super Bowl every single solitary season, but in a real world, I know that is impossible.

And how could a moderator of a Steelers message board ever think that Steelers' Fans live in the real world?:lol:

JayC
11-15-2010, 05:00 PM
If Gay and McFadden are ahead of Lewis and Butler, did we waste 2 more draft picks. Surely Lewis or Butler can't be much worse. At least you can blame any mistakes they make on their lack of experience. Gay and McFadden are out of excuses.

for sure, tomlin needs to stop playing favorites to the vets and see what we have with these rookies/2nd year players so we know what we have. there is no way butler or lewis can be any worse than gay and mcfadden. they might be just as bad but they can't be worse. gay and mcfadden don't even compete, they just stand back and still get fooled. i think the young guys would give better effort.

Moose
11-15-2010, 05:02 PM
I'm going to have to agree with quite a few replies so far. I, too, am sick and tired of our CB's giving 5 yrd cushions on the opposing receiver just to watch them make the catch, THEN try to run them down and PUSH them out of bounds !! Pathetic play. I think HARRISON is playing soft. He's afraid of another fine or suspension, so there is NO pressure on the QB. The opposing QB could take a nap back there with all the time he has. Harrison needs to go back playing HIS game. And where the hell is TROY ??? He's not playing like he did in the past. You only see him once or twice during a game. PATHETIC. This team is falling. The New England cheaters OWN the Steeler's especially Brady !! The play calling stunk up the place. Ben looked like crap. Tomlin better grab the wheel of ship fast. There is so much more ---but like I said earlier, everything has been said. UGH !!

silver & black
11-15-2010, 05:10 PM
Yes but damn it - we want more! ;) :tt02:

You are correct but a lot of Steelers fans refuse to believe that all teams go through good seasons and bad, even (God forbid) our beloved Steelers. I think it is blatantly obvious that we have some rebuilding to do - particularly on the D - and it isn't going to happen overnight. Sure I'd love to see the Steelers win the division and the Super Bowl every single solitary season, but in a real world, I know that is impossible.
Trust me, I know what it's like to expect a trip to the playoffs every year... with a serious chance of winning the Superbowl. Most of my time as a Raiders fan has known good to great teams that always had a chance at winning it all. The past 7 years sure has taught me not to take it for granted. Even the mighty will fall, eventually.

Your season is not lost. You are going to have to do a bit of re-building, obviously, but you sure won't go through what Raiders fans have had to endure.

I'm looking forward to next week...... I live for this game as a fan. I hope this one is a classic Raiders/Steelers brawl to the end. Man... I sure do miss those 70's games! You all keep the faith, and here's to a great game next week, with no injuries. :drink:

tube517
11-15-2010, 05:16 PM
Not saying Hampton will retire, I think it will be his last shot at a ring, especially if there is a lockout.


I don't think Hampton will retire he is having a very good season and had a new contract. I'm thinking Keisel and Hines will be here another season at least. However, I would not be surprised if Snith is gone after this season. A sad day, truly, for the Steelers.

tube517
11-15-2010, 05:19 PM
I wish I could find a link but I read in another forum that Troy's role has been "diminished" a little as a "freelancer" and Timmons is now starting to fill some of that role. It seems to make sense now. Because Troy hasn't been really seen since that tackle of Kerry Collins at the goal line. Plus, the mistakes he made last night and the Saints game seem more than the norm


I'm going to have to agree with quite a few replies so far. I, too, am sick and tired of our CB's giving 5 yrd cushions on the opposing receiver just to watch them make the catch, THEN try to run them down and PUSH them out of bounds !! Pathetic play. I think HARRISON is playing soft. He's afraid of another fine or suspension, so there is NO pressure on the QB. The opposing QB could take a nap back there with all the time he has. Harrison needs to go back playing HIS game. And where the hell is TROY ??? He's not playing like he did in the past. You only see him once or twice during a game. PATHETIC. This team is falling. The New England cheaters OWN the Steeler's especially Brady !! The play calling stunk up the place. Ben looked like crap. Tomlin better grab the wheel of ship fast. There is so much more ---but like I said earlier, everything has been said. UGH !!

JayC
11-15-2010, 05:22 PM
Not saying Hampton will retire, I think it will be his last shot at a ring, especially if there is a lockout.

argh that damn lockout. it keeps slipping my mind. apparently it has slipped our players minds as well in the past few games because they are sloppy and confused. next week's game is going to be telling and will show what this team is truly made of.

Moose
11-15-2010, 05:31 PM
I agree with you "tube517"-- I read or heard that also. But it would seem that he did so much better playing the way he used to, and the opposing team was always 'afraid' of him and not knowing what or where he'd be. Apparently Timmons isn't playing as well in that spot, because I never heard his name mentioned the way we'd hear Troy's when playing there. Maybe Timmons just needs time and experience playing that spot...maybe Troy can give pointers. Maybe the move would have been better to make in training camp and pre-season !!!

tube517
11-15-2010, 05:35 PM
I love Timmons at LB but he can't do the stuff Troy does. Timmons is very athletic but Troy does things no one else can do. I agree with you Moose. He seems much better in the freelancing role


I agree with you "tube517"-- I read or heard that also. But it would seem that he did so much better playing the way he used to, and the opposing team was always 'afraid' of him and not knowing what or where he'd be. Apparently Timmons isn't playing as well in that spot, because I never heard his name mentioned the way we'd hear Troy's when playing there. Maybe Timmons just needs time and experience playing that spot...maybe Troy can give pointers. Maybe the move would have been better to make in training camp and pre-season !!!

JayC
11-15-2010, 05:41 PM
I love Timmons at LB but he can't do the stuff Troy does. Timmons is very athletic but Troy does things no one else can do. I agree with you Moose. He seems much better in the freelancing role

hate to be a debbie downer but troy hasn't played an amazing game since the first half of week 1 last year against the titans. i feel like something is wrong with him. don't get me wrong, hes no william gay or something but he hasn't been the same since alge crumpler's fat ass injuried him.

7SteelGal43
11-15-2010, 06:06 PM
The bend-don't-break style that forces an opposing offense to put together long drives often results in those other teams making a mistake which results in turnovers.


Point taken, Hugh, unfortunately, the Patriots* didn't make those mistakes on those long drives. They played our secondary like a fiddle.

Slanted August
11-15-2010, 06:16 PM
I have a different opinion. This is built to be a gambling defense that relies on turnovers and sacks. It has won 2 Super Bowls since it's been instilled in 1992. I'm not going to bash Arians (although I don't like him as the OC). But this defense also is not built to stay on the field for long (Troy has even said so), which means the offense has to have more possessions and longer sustained drives. They have always been susceptible to the pass, even in LeBeau's first stint as DC. Too many 3 and outs kills any momentum for this defense. 2008, yes we won the Super Bowl but we got out in front in the playoff games and held on to the leads. (Baltimore and Arizone stayed close). Same thing in 2005, got out in front quick and let the defense hold on.

Passing teams can beat the defense. Accurate passers who get rid of the ball quickly (Brees, Manning, Tom Fucking Brady, Warner) will give the defense fits. No turnovers and no sacks against Brady? Can't win. When they did beat Brady on Halloween 2004 - 4 sacks 4 turnovers. Last night nothing.

As far as the OL, other than Pouncey, it is an average line, at best, mediocre overall. The OL coach has done very well with what he has dealt with, IMHO.

In our dreamworld, I wish they would take an OL and/or CB in the first 2 rounds. Will it happen? Doubtful.

$$$ post

HometownGal
11-15-2010, 06:22 PM
And how could a moderator of a Steelers message board ever think that Steelers' Fans live in the real world?:lol:

Aint that the damned truth, huh? :heh:

Didn't you get the Memo - it's our God given right to get into the playoffs and win a Super Bowl every season. :doh: ;)

NCSteeler
11-15-2010, 07:54 PM
An aggressive, attacking defense is a lot more fun for fans to watch because of the big plays that result. But keep in mind when you go that route you are also much more susceptible to getting torched and giving up big plays.

The bend-don't-break style that forces an opposing offense to put together long drives often results in those other teams making a mistake which results in turnovers. The Steelers entered the game leading the league in turnover ratio, so I can't really complain with the results - though I agree it can at times be exasperating to watch.

It also really helps if you have an elite corner if you are going to blitz more often.


Last night the D was mostly just bent over. Did the Pats even have to convert a third down? seemed it was 1st and 10 for them all night, and there's another 11 yarder, 1st and 10 and how about a 12 yard pass 1st and 10.

steelerdude15
11-16-2010, 12:29 AM
I don't like that fact that some Steelers fans, not all, are acting like it's the end of the world. Yes, last night was the worst game that we've seen in a while, but they only beat us by thirteen points, something we all must remember. The offensive line did not play up to par, Tom Brady threw all over the Steelers, and yes, the play calling wasn't good either, but let's all hope that this is the last game like this for the rest of the season. I will say one thing, if this lost doesn't fire them up to start playing tough again, then I don't know what will. I know that if I was in that locker room, last night would have been more than enough to get me ready to play Pittsburgh football and to smash people's teeth in. It's time the Steelers pick up the slack and starting playing like the champions. We're only six and three and we still have plenty of football to go, anything can happen.

BeerMan
11-16-2010, 02:21 PM
I don't like that fact that some Steelers fans, not all, are acting like it's the end of the world. Yes, last night was the worst game that we've seen in a while, but they only beat us by thirteen points, something we all must remember. The offensive line did not play up to par, Tom Brady threw all over the Steelers, and yes, the play calling wasn't good either, but let's all hope that this is the last game like this for the rest of the season. I will say one thing, if this lost doesn't fire them up to start playing tough again, then I don't know what will. I know that if I was in that locker room, last night would have been more than enough to get me ready to play Pittsburgh football and to smash people's teeth in. It's time the Steelers pick up the slack and starting playing like the champions. We're only six and three and we still have plenty of football to go, anything can happen.

What you seem to be forgetting is that last year we also sat at 6 - 2 before going on an abysmal 5 game slide, which basically ended our season. I'm not going to abandon our squad, but I remember last year and the team we all saw Sunday night was quite similar to that team. Plenty of issues need to be worked out before we can even begin to think about the playoffs.

steelerdude15
11-16-2010, 02:33 PM
What you seem to be forgetting is that last year we also sat at 6 - 2 before going on an abysmal 5 game slide, which basically ended our season. I'm not going to abandon our squad, but I remember last year and the team we all saw Sunday night was quite similar to that team. Plenty of issues need to be worked out before we can even begin to think about the playoffs.
I do remember last year very well. I do know we went on a five game slide, thank you. Last season was last season and this is a different one. Anything can happen. You can't say that because of one bad game, the Steelers are going to be like last year.

steel striker
11-16-2010, 02:47 PM
There is no secret to beating the steelers you simply have to throw the ball. Like most of steeler nation I was really shocked the we played and, the ease of how Brady picked us apart. Against qb's like Brady, Manning, Brees you have to get pressure or it will be a long night. I know our o-line is always the topic of problem area and, I know we are banged up there. I just hope we can do a better job of protection to give Ben a chance to make enough plays for a good season.

steelerdude15
11-16-2010, 02:51 PM
I will say this, we are 0-2 against teams that lose to the Browns the week before and then play us on Sunday night this season. I blame Cleveland for Sunday night. :heh:

GodfatherofSoul
11-16-2010, 03:22 PM
Haven't read other responses just wanted to get mine down first:

1. Undisciplined teams have lots of locker room issues, penalties, breakdowns, etc. I'm not seeing any of that consistently.
2. Don't forget our offensive line has been decimated this year. I'm happy if we even get satisfactory performance out of this unit. And, they'll get better as wounds heal and they learn to work together.
3. Ike is still a good CB. We don't need a shutdown corner in this defense.
4. We've got critical injuries on the D-line again this year, so we're not getting the pressure we want. That means we're going to have to be conservative when you can't be confident your line will get to the QB fast enough.
5. The run defense is great regardless. I think we all know where the weaknesses are in pass coverage. Our linebackers dropping into coverage have looked great.

If you're saying Tomlin is a bad coach, I'd say that's flat out wrong. We've got devastating injuries on both sides of the ball, a #1 receiver we cut without warning, now our kicking situation is questionable. We've just had unnaturally bad luck this season and we're STILL 6-3 and tied for the division lead!

psusteelerspens4life
11-16-2010, 03:36 PM
One thing I'm not sure if its been said here is watching Hood I know he is still young but he seems to not get a good push when rushing the passer, He seems to just stop when he gets blocked looks like he is playing patty cake and hand fights with the linemen. Eason seems to get some push more than Hood. I know Hood is still learning but I would like to see him get more aggressive and get a push.

Count Steeler
11-16-2010, 03:42 PM
I don't like that fact that some Steelers fans, not all, are acting like it's the end of the world. Yes, last night was the worst game that we've seen in a while, but they only beat us by thirteen points, something we all must remember. The offensive line did not play up to par, Tom Brady threw all over the Steelers, and yes, the play calling wasn't good either, but let's all hope that this is the last game like this for the rest of the season. I will say one thing, if this lost doesn't fire them up to start playing tough again, then I don't know what will. I know that if I was in that locker room, last night would have been more than enough to get me ready to play Pittsburgh football and to smash people's teeth in. It's time the Steelers pick up the slack and starting playing like the champions. We're only six and three and we still have plenty of football to go, anything can happen.

An opinion should not be based on 1 game. However, I have watched the Steelers play 3 games in a row where there are some serious problems coming to the surface. The talent is present on this team. The coaching staff is going to come under more and more scrutiny if this season starts to look like last season. Not time to pull the plug quite yet, but this team HAS to show up next week.