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View Full Version : What Happened To The Zone Blitz ??



SteelerEmpire
11-03-2010, 04:09 PM
LeBeau's signature play. The Saints and the Ravens blitz the H*ll out of the Steelers and looked what happened. The Steelers chose not to bring it in those games as well and gave their QB's way to much time to pick apart our weak secondary (Well, at least 1/2 of our secondary is weak). I don't get their (coaching staff's) reasoning just yet (outside of "trying" to throw games). Do they not have enough confidence in the secondary to bring a high number of blitz's anymore ? Just an observation...

SMR
11-03-2010, 04:28 PM
LeBeau's signature play. The Saints and the Ravens blitz the H*ll out of the Steelers and looked what happened. The Steelers chose not to bring it in those games as well and gave their QB's way to much time to pick apart our weak secondary (Well, at least 1/2 of our secondary is weak). I don't get their (coaching staff's) reasoning just yet (outside of "trying" to throw games). Do they not have enough confidence in the secondary to bring a high number of blitz's anymore ? Just an observation...

That is exactly my biggest beef with LeBeau right now. I am not going to mince words, so here goes. Sure I love Papa Coach and all, but I having been losing respect for the guy. Could it be that, while he may be viewed as humble, he really has a huge ego about his accomplishments especially his most recent one with being in the Hall of Fame and now is being stubbornly reckless with the Steelers' defense? I will go so far as to say that I personally wonder if he now has a false humility and feels the Steelers' defense is good enough to slack off and keep playing that darn awful prevent defense, zone blitz be damned!!

I had a bad feeling about the Steelers-Saints game before it was played, well it was mainly because of LeBeau! Sorry, I had to say it. I sure miss the zone blitz. LeBeau...hope you're reading this: Get off your high perch and flush the prevent defense down the crapper for good!! Either LeBeau is getting senile or he's just too stubborn and arrogant! I don't care if I get flamed for this post, but I have been holding this in for too long! :yell: :censored: :mad2:

pepsyman1
11-03-2010, 04:48 PM
You'll get no argument from me. I have remember watching fondly over the last umpteen years as we found ways to blitz from anywhere and everywhere. (I had friends that joked that Rod Woodson hid behind the Gatorade cooler and blitzed from there...lol) That was what always made our defense stand out so much. We've always been good at stopping the run, but it was our blitzing pass rush that has always made opposing OC's stay up late at night. The 2008 season was the most recent pinnacle of that approach. I understand that we might be a little gun shy when we have injuries, but as Tomlin says "the standard is the standard". I say turn the guys loose. As it is, for the last season and a half we haven't been taking that approach so that we can "guard against the big play"...but we are giving up quick, late game scoring drives anyway. If we are gonna get beat I'd rather it be when we are doing what we do best than by hiding in the corner hoping the other team will throw an incomplete. If a team can beat our D when we are bringing the heat we are capable of bringing (from all corners of the playing field), then they deserve to win.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-03-2010, 05:29 PM
Do you guys know exactly what the concept of a zone blitz is??

I dont have the play to break down, but when McFadden got the fumble, I am pretty sure that he, Timmons and Farrior all blitzed from the left side of the defense and there probably was a rotation of the secondary to the side B-Mac vacated and somebody from the front 7 dropped to cover.

The zone blitz has not been abandoned, but rather its been somewhat neutralized on 1st and 2nd downs by the evolution of the zone block by the offensive lines in football.

ALLD
11-03-2010, 06:18 PM
3-step drop vs. a 7-step drop. Our hot routes were cold and theirs were not. Plus we made more mistakes from coaching to the players. The Saints played it cool and beat us. If I were a Bungle I would be worried.

oneforthetoe
11-03-2010, 06:24 PM
Do you guys know exactly what the concept of a zone blitz is??

I dont have the play to break down, but when McFadden got the fumble, I am pretty sure that he, Timmons and Farrior all blitzed from the left side of the defense and there probably was a rotation of the secondary to the side B-Mac vacated and somebody from the front 7 dropped to cover.



The zone blitz has not been abandoned, but rather its been somewhat neutralized on 1st and 2nd downs by the evolution of the zone block by the offensive lines in football.

Shhhhhh El-Gonzo Jackson, please don't interrupt the delusions that fans have - that every positive play by the another team is a result of poor play calling by a coordinator or head coach - with facts. Don't you know that every time we do not call an "all out blitz" and a team completes a pass, it is the fault of the prevent defense, regardless of what defense we are actually in. It's similar to how BA keeps calling for running plays and forgets to tell our offensive linemen that they have to block the guy in front of them.

tube517
11-03-2010, 06:32 PM
:lol:


Shhhhhh El-Gonzo Jackson, please don't interrupt the delusions that fans have - that every positive play by the another team is a result of poor play calling by a coordinator or head coach - with facts. Don't you know that every time we do not call an "all out blitz" and a team completes a pass, it is the fault of the prevent defense, regardless of what defense we are actually in. It similar to how BA keeps calling for running plays and forgets to tell are offensive linemen that the have to block the guy in front of them.

oneforthetoe
11-03-2010, 06:41 PM
Removing the sarcasm from my response for a moment, I don't think heavy blitzing is really as big a part of LeBeau's system as has advertised. Truthfully, his defense at its best is when the blitz is faked, but the QB thinks it's on, and hurries a pass into coverage. Of course, for this bluff to work he does have to "successfully blitz " enough to pull of the ruse. In addition, we still need harassing pressure from the linebacker or linebackers who do come. And finally we need corners that can not only cover, but are good tacklers (I'm looking at you William Gay).

I thought best example of this was the playoff game against the Colts in 2005. Even though Porter harangued Peyton for most of the day, we didn't actually blitz that much all day. However, Peyton was so confused for most of the game he was calling line adjustments that left Porter unblocked.

I'm certainly not going to criticize others and then claim to be an expert. My opinion is just based on reading what others write and my observations like everyone else. I just think fans look for simplistic solutions because that is as far as our knowledge will take us.

Bluecoat96
11-03-2010, 06:47 PM
Do you guys know exactly what the concept of a zone blitz is??

I dont have the play to break down, but when McFadden got the fumble, I am pretty sure that he, Timmons and Farrior all blitzed from the left side of the defense and there probably was a rotation of the secondary to the side B-Mac vacated and somebody from the front 7 dropped to cover.

The zone blitz has not been abandoned, but rather its been somewhat neutralized on 1st and 2nd downs by the evolution of the zone block by the offensive lines in football.


Thank you for speaking reason and sanity on this thread.

SMR
11-03-2010, 07:07 PM
You'll get no argument from me. I have remember watching fondly over the last umpteen years as we found ways to blitz from anywhere and everywhere. (I had friends that joked that Rod Woodson hid behind the Gatorade cooler and blitzed from there...lol) That was what always made our defense stand out so much. We've always been good at stopping the run, but it was our blitzing pass rush that has always made opposing OC's stay up late at night. The 2008 season was the most recent pinnacle of that approach. I understand that we might be a little gun shy when we have injuries, but as Tomlin says "the standard is the standard". I say turn the guys loose. As it is, for the last season and a half we haven't been taking that approach so that we can "guard against the big play"...but we are giving up quick, late game scoring drives anyway. If we are gonna get beat I'd rather it be when we are doing what we do best than by hiding in the corner hoping the other team will throw an incomplete. If a team can beat our D when we are bringing the heat we are capable of bringing (from all corners of the playing field), then they deserve to win.

:yup:

Devilsdancefloor
11-03-2010, 07:13 PM
I really think it due to injuries to the dline plus the anits are a pass happy team so LBers where dropping into coverage. plus wht gonzo said about the blocking im sure we will see more of our ILBers cross blitzing that i a real gem in coach dads defense

Steeldude
11-03-2010, 07:43 PM
Shhhhhh El-Gonzo Jackson, please don't interrupt the delusions that fans have - that every positive play by the another team is a result of poor play calling by a coordinator or head coach - with facts. Don't you know that every time we do not call an "all out blitz" and a team completes a pass, it is the fault of the prevent defense, regardless of what defense we are actually in. It similar to how BA keeps calling for running plays and forgets to tell are offensive linemen that they have to block the guy in front of them.

right, because the send the 3 linemen and drop 8 men back is really a disguised zone-blitz. shhh...don't tell anyone.

Chidi29
11-03-2010, 08:07 PM
right, because the send the 3 linemen and drop 8 men back is really a disguised zone-blitz. shhh...don't tell anyone.

As if we did that the entire game....

I saw plenty of blitz looks. Another factor you have to consider is how quick Brees gets the ball out of his hand and the quick drops New Orleans runs. They didn't take too many deep shots on us. That doesn't let us get off those exotic blitzes in time because as soon as we get there, the ball is out.

The McFadden forced fumble was a great example of LeBeau working his magic. Overload right with McFadden coming on a delay. Harrison's sack was created with him and Eason running a stunt.

The blitz is fine.

oneforthetoe
11-03-2010, 09:07 PM
As if we did that the entire game....

I saw plenty of blitz looks. Another factor you have to consider is how quick Brees gets the ball out of his hand and the quick drops New Orleans runs. They didn't take too many deep shots on us. That doesn't let us get off those exotic blitzes in time because as soon as we get there, the ball is out.

The McFadden forced fumble was a great example of LeBeau working his magic. Overload right with McFadden coming on a delay. Harrison's sack was created with him and Eason running a stunt.

The blitz is fine.

Exactly, I have not noticed us playing back more than usual. Remember we got beat in the ratbird game when Troy blitzed. One thing mentioned above is that teams have adjusted somewhat to the traditional zone blitz. So, I have faith that coach Lebeau will do the same and readjust our defense somehow to compensate.. The fact is we probably do need an upgrade with coverage skills in our secondary. Mcfadden was a good stop gap player because not only are Gay's coverage skills poor, but he doesn't tackle well. Hopefully, either Lewis or Butler develop, or we address it again in the draft.

Or, we just blitz on every down as some would have it because that could never go wrong.

Psycho Ward 86
11-03-2010, 11:32 PM
Well folks, other than the obvious categories, we're tied for 4th in the league w/12 forced fumbles, tied for 2nd in the league with 9 recovered forced fumbles, tied for 5th with 10 interceptions, and 10th in sacks.

We were bound to have an off-game sometime, especially with the hellish opponents we've had to face so far this season.

pepsyman1
11-04-2010, 12:30 AM
Removing the sarcasm from my response for a moment, I don't think heavy blitzing is really as big a part of LeBeau's system as has advertised. Truthfully, his defense at its best is when the blitz is faked, but the QB thinks it's on, and hurries a pass into coverage. Of course, for this bluff to work he does have to "successfully blitz " enough to pull of the ruse. In addition, we still need harassing pressure from the linebacker or linebackers who do come. And finally we need corners that can not only cover, but are good tacklers (I'm looking at you William Gay).


I will agree 100%. I don't expect us to blitz all the time and McFadden's blitz was very welcome to see as well as your analysis of the amount that we fake the blitz. I agree with all of that assessment 100%, unfortunately at the end of games we AREN'T usually doing that. Usually in the 4th quarter we might see both Woodley and Harrison milling around the line and then one of them drops off and we just rush 4 people. We don't see the linebackers moving up and back faking the blitz. They do that at earlier points in the game, but in the last few minutes of the 4th quarter it disappears. The proof is in the pudding, we have most of the same personnel on defense as we had the Superbowl year...that year we were the number #1 pass defense, now we are 25th.

oneforthetoe
11-04-2010, 02:59 AM
I will agree 100%. I don't expect us to blitz all the time and McFadden's blitz was very welcome to see as well as your analysis of the amount that we fake the blitz. I agree with all of that assessment 100%, unfortunately at the end of games we AREN'T usually doing that. Usually in the 4th quarter we might see both Woodley and Harrison milling around the line and then one of them drops off and we just rush 4 people. We don't see the linebackers moving up and back faking the blitz. They do that at earlier points in the game, but in the last few minutes of the 4th quarter it disappears. The proof is in the pudding, we have most of the same personnel on defense as we had the Superbowl year...that year we were the number #1 pass defense, now we are 25th.

No doubt we have issues with the D in the fourth quarter. I just think those issues might not be as simple as blitzing more. I have already mentioned that Troy was blitzing on the TD that beat us against the rat birds. It was McFadden losing his man that caused the TD. Also, I seem to recall on one of late Cleveland TDs that either Timmons or Woodley left their coverage and went after Colt, thus leaving the WR open for the TD. It just seems to me that, whatever the issue is with our D in the fourth quarter, it might be more personnel, for what ever reason not making plays, or making the wrong plays, as opposed to scheme.

steelpride12
11-04-2010, 08:32 AM
I think Lebeau's plan was that he figured Bree's and the Saints would plan around the Steelers blitzing and bringing pressure. So you could see Lebeau was trying to counter that all night by showing blitz, but dropping the line backers into coverage. A mistake Lebeau does not make often.

BigNastyDefense
11-04-2010, 10:02 AM
Part of the problem that is neutralizing the zone blitz is that there are more good quarterbacks in the league. They don't need a 7-step-drop to read the defense and get a pass off, they get it done in three and five step drops and hit their hot receiver.

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-04-2010, 10:43 AM
Thank you for speaking reason and sanity on this thread.

You are welcome.


Shhhhhh El-Gonzo Jackson, please don't interrupt the delusions that fans have - that every positive play by the another team is a result of poor play calling by a coordinator or head coach - with facts. Don't you know that every time we do not call an "all out blitz" and a team completes a pass, it is the fault of the prevent defense, regardless of what defense we are actually in. It's similar to how BA keeps calling for running plays and forgets to tell our offensive linemen that they have to block the guy in front of them.

Sorry, my bad. I should know better than to try and inject any sanity and reason to this thread. He should blitz 9 and keep 2 in coverage...EVERY PLAY.

Steeldude
11-04-2010, 12:48 PM
Sorry, my bad. I should know better than to try and inject any sanity and reason to this thread. He should blitz 9 and keep 2 in coverage...EVERY PLAY.

that might be better. they can't cover with 8 back there so why not 2? :)

SteelerEmpire
11-04-2010, 07:59 PM
that might be better. they can't cover with 8 back there so why not 2? :)

Now that makes sense.... lol...