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View Full Version : Tomlin is coaching a terrible game.



zulater
10-31-2010, 09:51 PM
4 stupid decisions already! :mad2:

1. terrible challenge
2. Terrible non challenge ( 2nd and goal play, Mendy put the nose of the ball to the goal line)
3. Trying 51 yard fg with reed with too much time on the clock.
4. going for it on 4th and 4 in a 3 point game

stlrtruck
10-31-2010, 10:01 PM
It's a chess game and if the 51 yarder hits and they get 5 on the 4th down play this thread doesn't even get started.

Don't forget, the Saints are playing a great game on their side of the ball too. That could impact a lot of what we're seeing from our boys too.

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:09 PM
It's a chess game and if the 51 yarder hits and they get 5 on the 4th down play this thread doesn't even get started.

Don't forget, the Saints are playing a great game on their side of the ball too. That could impact a lot of what we're seeing from our boys too.

In a close game you need to play the percentages better. Reed is terrible over 45. Less than 30 seconds on the clock, go for it, 1.20, too much time to give Brees that sort of field position.

Same with the 4th and 4. The offense wasn't in any kind of rthym that would suggest they had a good chance to convert. Too godd of field position to give Brees.

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:14 PM
Tomlin cost us this game. He's a terrible game day coach!

RushHard34
10-31-2010, 10:17 PM
Dont forget calling the TO on 3rd down just now.....

doesnt matter anyway

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:18 PM
We got outcoached today! Terrible terrible loss. PoteNTIAL SEASON CHANGING LOSS








1

Wallace108
10-31-2010, 10:19 PM
I'm just going to go ahead and say it. Had Arians called the entire game like he did the last few drives, we have more than 10 points.

But I'm not excusing the defense.

fansince'76
10-31-2010, 10:22 PM
In a close game you need to play the percentages better. Reed is terrible over 45. Less than 30 seconds on the clock, go for it, 1.20, too much time to give Brees that sort of field position.

Funny, but I remember folks bitching when we didn't take a timeout so Reed could attempt a 51-yarder recently. So which is it?

Steelman
10-31-2010, 10:29 PM
We got outcoached today! Terrible terrible loss. PoteNTIAL SEASON CHANGING LOSS








1

Uh, as far as I can see we're 5-2, top of the division, and 9 games to go.

Sky is falling much?

stillers4me
10-31-2010, 10:30 PM
Uh, as far as I can see we're 5-2, top of the division, and 9 games to go.

Sky is falling much?
Uh, this.

The Duke
10-31-2010, 10:31 PM
Uh, as far as I can see we're 5-2, top of the division, and 9 games to go.

Sky is falling much?

tied with the rats now though....

but yeah

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:32 PM
Funny, but I remember folks bitching when we didn't take a timeout so Reed could attempt a 51-yarder recently. So which is it?

Yeah it's the same fucking thing giving Drew Brees 1.30 in great field position and trying a field goal with no time on the clock. God damn apoligist, can't admit that Tomlin coached a game for the ages from a moronic standpoint.

HollywoodSteel
10-31-2010, 10:32 PM
I'm going to lay this one primarily at Ben's feet.

You want to see what an elite quarterback looks like? Look across to the one on the Saints. Ben should be eating the blitz alive against a depleted secondary.

And yes, I love Ben for what he does. But I really thought this was the kind of thing he was going to get better at. You know they are going to blitz... you absolutely know it! Isn't there some kind of thing that certain quarterbacks do to take advantage of that? Like throwing to the guy with one on one coverage within two seconds?

If you guys want to tell me that it's all BA's fault I'd be willing to listen. Maybe we just don't have plays where any receivers turn back before 12 seconds.

JayC
10-31-2010, 10:32 PM
4 stupid decisions already! :mad2:

1. terrible challenge
2. Terrible non challenge ( 2nd and goal play, Mendy put the nose of the ball to the goal line)
3. Trying 51 yard fg with reed with too much time on the clock.
4. going for it on 4th and 4 in a 3 point game

honestly, i agree with you on all points. especially the non challenge and field goal attempt. i was screaminng nooo on the kick and begging for a challenge

Wallace108
10-31-2010, 10:32 PM
Uh, as far as I can see we're 5-2, top of the division, and 9 games to go.

Sky is falling much?

We lost to the Ravens ... that puts us in second place.

Carolina Steelers
10-31-2010, 10:33 PM
Before this game he was coach of the yr., now a tough loss to the Saints (defending champs) now some of his calls were questionable but he didnt cost us the game. Should we start a new thread Fire Coach Tomlin :nono:

fansince'76
10-31-2010, 10:33 PM
Yeah it's the same fucking thing giving Drew Brees 1.30 in great field position and trying a field goal with no time on the clock. God damn apoligist, can't admit that Tomlin coached a game for the ages from a moronic standpoint.

Apologist? Better than being a whiny bitch. Send in your fucking resume already.

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:35 PM
Uh, this.

We play the Bengals on the road next week. They're dangerous, they cost us the 2009 season. The following week we host the Patriots. If Tomlin doesn't get his head out of his ass we have zero chance to win thjat one.Good chance in two weeks we're looking at 5-4. We had no fucking business losing this game!. Losing is a habit, once started hard to end. 2009 all over again.

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:36 PM
Apologist? Better than being a whiny bitch. Send in your fucking resume already.

More cool aid sir?

The Duke
10-31-2010, 10:36 PM
Before this game he was coach of the yr., now a tough loss to the Saints (defending champs) now some of his calls were questionable but he didnt cost us the game. Should we start a new thread Fire Coach Tomlin :nono:

haha, exactly

one bad game doesn't make him horrible. Just stomp the bengals!

GBMelBlount
10-31-2010, 10:37 PM
This was a terrible game from start to finish. No excuses.

Wanna be "Rah Rah 5-2" - fine. I'm disgusted

Just my opinion folks. I'm sure I'll be better tomorrow.

Next up Bengals....let's make them cry.

HometownGal
10-31-2010, 10:38 PM
http://afeatheradrift.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/the-sky-is-falling-net.jpg


Zu - I'm sorry, but I think you are overreacting big time. We knew going in this was going to be a really tough game and we came out on the short end of the scoreboard. I'd rather lose to the Saints than the Bungles next week.

RushHard34
10-31-2010, 10:40 PM
haha, exactly

one bad game doesn't make him horrible. Just stomp the bengals!

Dont think anyones calling him horrible. He just coached a terrible game today...

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:40 PM
http://afeatheradrift.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/the-sky-is-falling-net.jpg


Zu - I'm sorry, but I think you are overreacting big time. We knew going in this was going to be a really tough game and we came out on the short end of the scoreboard. I'd rather lose to the Saints than the Bungles next week.

So would I, but I hate the fact that opur coach gave one away. You only get 16 of these, those decisions he made were gods awful, game changing, inexcusable! I hope he takes the balem like he should!

Wallace108
10-31-2010, 10:42 PM
http://smiliesftw.com/x/facepalmsmiley1ti3.gif

I think after a game, the board should be shut down for about half an hour so everyone can compose themselves.

Devilsdancefloor
10-31-2010, 10:42 PM
We play the Bengals on the road next week. They're dangerous, they cost us the 2009 season. The following week we host the Patriots. If Tomlin doesn't get his head out of his ass we have zero chance to win thjat one.Good chance in two weeks we're looking at 5-4. We had no fucking business losing this game!. Losing is a habit, once started hard to end. 2009 all over again.
come on man the sky isnt falling and yes we could be 5-4 in 2 weeks but i am willing to bet at least 6-3 if not 7-2. we played a great team tonight

Steeldude
10-31-2010, 10:43 PM
Uh, as far as I can see we're 5-2, top of the division, and 9 games to go.

Sky is falling much?

ravens are on top. they beat the steelers.

Borski
10-31-2010, 10:44 PM
Big freakin whoop! Yeah some mistakes where made, so? We are still a very good team, people make mistakes, they'll work on em during the week and learn from em. We are still tied with the ravens (yeah I know they own the tiebreaker on us, but we still play them again so we can even it up) Stop whinning about the Loss, Tomlin is a great coach, he made some mistakes, Troy played a heck of a great game and screwed up on 1 play, when you have a player like that you gotta take the good with the bad. we just had a few mistakes that added up. They'll get fixed and we'll take it out n the Bungals next week.

fansince'76
10-31-2010, 10:44 PM
I'd get banned if I replied as I want to right now. It sucks not being a moderater sometimes.

Well, you already implied that I'm a Kool-Aid drinking cheerleader because I have a little bit of perspective and am not about to slit my wrists, so what's stopping you?

Steelman
10-31-2010, 10:44 PM
Zu, chill kid. It was bound to happen sometime soon and it did. The makeshift train we were riding was falling apart quickly, and this is where we have put it back together, not in 3-4 weeks when it really matters. No need to freak out. Seriously. We're all as pissed as you are, believe me.

Tomlin isn't the only one to blame. Bad game all around. It happens.

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:45 PM
Dont think anyones calling him horrible. He just coached a terrible game today...



Bingo! I like Tomlin, I think he's a good coach, but damn it having the honesty to say he blew chunks tonight shouldn't send people to their shields to protect him. Like any person he can have a bad day, and he had a brutal one today

The Duke
10-31-2010, 10:45 PM
http://smiliesftw.com/x/facepalmsmiley1ti3.gif

I think after a loss, the board should be shut down for about half an hour so everyone can compose themselves.

I'd agree with THAT

Wallace108
10-31-2010, 10:45 PM
we played a great team tonight

Yeah, a team that the Browns crushed last week. :chuckle:
Sorry, DDF, but I'm having fun. Everyone is losing their minds. I think everyone needs to stop and take a deep breath. Spend about 20 minutes in the Night Club and then come back. :smokin:

GBMelBlount
10-31-2010, 10:46 PM
Bingo! I like Tomlin, I think he's a good coach, but damn it having the honesty to say he blew chunks tonight shouldn't send people to their shields to protect him. Like any person he can have a bad day, and he had a brutal one today

Zu, I agree with you completely. He sucked.

JUST DON'T TAKE IT / OR MAKE PERSONAL MY FRIEND.

If people protect him, right or wrong, that is their prerogative.

Get pissed but not at fellow steelers fans zu.

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:47 PM
come on man the sky isnt falling and yes we could be 5-4 in 2 weeks but i am willing to bet at least 6-3 if not 7-2. we played a great team tonight

Great team? The 4-3 team that just lost at home to the Browns?

fansince'76
10-31-2010, 10:47 PM
Yeah, a team that the Browns crushed last week. :chuckle:
Sorry, DDF, but I'm having fun. Everyone is losing their minds. I think everyone needs to stop and take a deep breath. Spend about 20 minutes in the Night Club and then come back. :smokin:

A Browns team we also thumped. Any given Sunday. Yeah, the loss sucks, but things could be worse. Plenty of football left.

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:49 PM
Zu, I agree with you completely. JUST DON'T TAKE IT / OR MAKE PERSONAL MY FRIEND.

If people protect him, right or wrong, that is their prerogative.

Yeah, you're right, but it's not many games where a coach so negatively influences a result. Have to get it off my chest.

Devilsdancefloor
10-31-2010, 10:50 PM
Bingo! I like Tomlin, I think he's a good coach, but damn it having the honesty to say he blew chunks tonight shouldn't send people to their shields to protect him. Like any person he can have a bad day, and he had a brutal one today

Actually you are doing a hell of alot more than saying he had a bad day. you are saying we might as well mail in the next 9 games we suck and never gonna another game this year. that is why everyone is defending coach tomlin..... think aout it Zu

GBMelBlount
10-31-2010, 10:52 PM
Yeah, you're right, but it's not many games where a coach so negatively influences a result. Have to get it off my chest.

I know. I am so irritated right now I can't even tell you.

Wallace108
10-31-2010, 10:52 PM
I say we fire Tomlin tomorrow and hire Arians as head coach. :thumbsup:
:bolt:

fansince'76
10-31-2010, 10:52 PM
I'm going to lay this one primarily at Ben's feet.

You want to see what an elite quarterback looks like? Look across to the one on the Saints. Ben should be eating the blitz alive against a depleted secondary.

And yes, I love Ben for what he does. But I really thought this was the kind of thing he was going to get better at. You know they are going to blitz... you absolutely know it! Isn't there some kind of thing that certain quarterbacks do to take advantage of that? Like throwing to the guy with one on one coverage within two seconds?

If you guys want to tell me that it's all BA's fault I'd be willing to listen. Maybe we just don't have plays where any receivers turn back before 12 seconds.

I think, to be fair, Ben also looked like a guy who has missed 4 weeks out of 7 so far. And I'd also like to add that the "elite QB on the other side" threw 4 INTs (including 2 pick-sixes) against the Browns. Everyone has a bad game now and then.

steelpride12
10-31-2010, 10:53 PM
When we lose to the Bungles then we can worry a little, but for now relax. People make mistakes.

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:54 PM
Well, you already implied that I'm a Kool-Aid drinking cheerleader because I have a little bit of perspective and am not about to slit my wrists, so what's stopping you?



Perspective? Well here's mine. Coaching decisions shouldn't impact a game in a negative way to the degree they did tonight. Ever!

Borski
10-31-2010, 10:55 PM
When we lose to the Bungles then we can worry a little, but for now relax. People make mistakes.

Seriously, people are really over reacting tonight, holy crap

zulater
10-31-2010, 10:57 PM
Actually you are doing a hell of alot more than saying he had a bad day. you are saying we might as well mail in the next 9 games we suck and never gonna another game this year. that is why everyone is defending coach tomlin..... think aout it Zu

Right now I'm saying he sucked tonight. Bellichick will eat his lunch if he coaches as horrible against them as he did tonight.

Borski
10-31-2010, 10:57 PM
Perspective? Well here's mine. Coaching decisions shouldn't impact a game in a negative way to the degree they did tonight. Ever!

So fumbles, blown coverage doesn't matter?

There is plenty of blame to go around. They'll take a look at what whent wrong during the week and fix it.

Merchant
10-31-2010, 10:59 PM
Breatheee people. The sky isn't falling. It's a tough loss to swallow but this wasn't a must-win game. We're still tied atop the division and only the Patriots have a better record. Gonna bounce back against the Bungles!

tube517
10-31-2010, 11:02 PM
Granted, the loss sucks but the season is far from over. We're not 6-7 here.

However, I think LeBeau or Tomlin was not playing as aggressive as I'd like. Ben looked out of sync. It happens. I think he'll be ready next week.

X-Terminator
10-31-2010, 11:08 PM
http://smiliesftw.com/x/facepalmsmiley1ti3.gif

I think after a game, the board should be shut down for about half an hour so everyone can compose themselves.

Yeah, me too. This is absolutely fucking insane.

zulater
10-31-2010, 11:09 PM
So fumbles, blown coverage doesn't matter?

There is plenty of blame to go around. They'll take a look at what whent wrong during the week and fix it.

Of course they matter. But Tomlin set the ball rolling in the wrong direction and his decision showed up on the scoreboard for our opponent in a close game.

1. Terrible challenge. Did anyone think it had a chance in hell to overturn the fumble?

2. Bad non challenge imo. I think the second and goal carry by Mendy was worth challenging. Not sure it would have worked, but I really thought there was visual evidence of the ball crossing the plane of the goal before he was down. I think the fact that he failed on the ridiculous first challenge might have played a part in not issuing a legitimate challenge that had a chance.

3. Don't try a 51 yarder with Reed unless the clock is all but expired or you're playing an inept offense. The chances of Reed making that kick are about 15%, you don't give Brees the ball there with that much time on the clock. Punt 'em down inside their 15 and make them earn it at least. This was a huge momentum changer and I think Tomlin breathed life into the Sainst offense with that decision.

4. 4th and 4. Again risk-reward didn't weigh in favor of that call. A 3 point game, the defense made a nice goal line stand the series before, and you give Brees favorable field position?

Tomlin gave a stagnant Saints offense life by unneccessarily giving them great field position twice.


2.

pepsyman1
10-31-2010, 11:11 PM
I can't put too much of the blame on Tomlin. Ben didn't react quickly enough to the blitz, he and the receivers weren't on the same page with the hot reads. I thought Arians actually called a decent game....he could have adjusted the play calling to deal with the blitz a little earlier (we were pretty worthless in the 3rd Qtr), but overall we had a nice balance in what we were trying to do. Ben needs to do a better job with the blitz and regardless of how strong he is, he has to learn it's okay to throw the ball away sometimes. I had a bigger problem with the defense. We blitz and create a turnover and when they get the ball back we let them march down the field and we don't get anyone in Brees' face including rushing just 3 on a big 3rd down call....lame.

zulater
10-31-2010, 11:11 PM
Granted, the loss sucks but the season is far from over. We're not 6-7 here.

However, I think LeBeau or Tomlin was not playing as aggressive as I'd like. Ben looked out of sync. It happens. I think he'll be ready next week.

He looked in sync as soon as they decided it was ok to throw on first down.

zulater
10-31-2010, 11:12 PM
I can't put too much of the blame on Tomlin. Ben didn't react quickly enough to the blitz, he and the receivers weren't on the same page with the hot reads. I thought Arians actually called a decent game....he could have adjusted the play calling to deal with the blitz a little earlier (we were pretty worthless in the 3rd Qtr), but overall we had a nice balance in what we were trying to do. Ben needs to do a better job with the blitz and regardless of how strong he is, he has to learn it's okay to throw the ball away sometimes. I had a bigger problem with the defense. We blitz and create a turnover and when they get the ball back we let them march down the field and we don't get anyone in Brees' face including rushing just 3 on a big 3rd down call....lame.

I guess you didn't notice Flozell blocking air on our first 3 3rd down plays? How's that Ben's fault?

HollywoodSteel
10-31-2010, 11:14 PM
http://smiliesftw.com/x/facepalmsmiley1ti3.gif

I think after a game, the board should be shut down for about half an hour so everyone can compose themselves.

No way! This is the best time!

:pop2:

Devilsdancefloor
10-31-2010, 11:18 PM
i really think the person that is beating himself up right now is heath we had the Mo and moving rather easy just had a big TO moving to tie when he fumbles. If he doesnt and we tie the game or go ahead all this talk might be for not, but he fumbled we lost. In the grand scheme of things it sucks, but not as bad as if where a AFC team. i hate losing to any team, but i will take this loss. we ar not gonna win them all hell i figured 10-6 this year. Next up the bungles in the jungle. i expect a big game from the D.

tube517
10-31-2010, 11:23 PM
Too little too late


He looked in sync as soon as they decided it was ok to throw on first down.

pepsyman1
10-31-2010, 11:28 PM
I guess you didn't notice Flozell blocking air on our first 3 3rd down plays? How's that Ben's fault?

So I should blame Tomlin for that???

Borski
10-31-2010, 11:30 PM
So I should blame Tomlin for that???

Of course :rolleyes:

zulater
10-31-2010, 11:34 PM
So I should blame Tomlin for that???

No, what you blame Tomlin for is breathing life into a stagnant Saints offense by twice giving them great field position when you had the chance to pin them down deep in their own territory.

You also blame him for wasting a challenge on a play that had no chance of being reveresed and holding on to his flag on a play that possibly could have given the Steelers a touchdown.

pepsyman1
10-31-2010, 11:43 PM
No, what you blame Tomlin for is breathing life into a stagnant Saints offense by twice giving them great field position when you had the chance to pin them down deep in their own territory.

You also blame him for wasting a challenge on a play that had no chance of being reveresed and holding on to his flag on a play that possibly could have given the Steelers a touchdown.

Fine...I WILL blame Tomlin for that....and Ben and the receivers STILL need to do a better job at reading the blitz and making adjustments. When there are that many people coming someone should be open. I don't expect that we are gonna beat the blitz every time, but we need to make adjustments to get the ball out faster to contend with it.

zulater
10-31-2010, 11:51 PM
Fine...I WILL blame Tomlin for that....and Ben and the receivers STILL need to do a better job at reading the blitz and making adjustments. When there are that many people coming someone should be open. I don't expect that we are gonna beat the blitz every time, but we need to make adjustments to get the ball out faster to contend with it.

Ben looked ok as soon as they allowed him to pass on first down. You ask anyone and they'll tell you that first down is the best passing down. But until the Saints went up by two scores we held Ben in check, and most of his passes came on poor down and distance situations. In other words we played right into their hands. We should have played more agressive when we had the lead.


The only problem I had with Ben tonight was calling timout on 3rd and 17 early in the third quarter. :doh:

Steeldude
11-01-2010, 12:34 AM
Ben and the receivers STILL need to do a better job at reading the blitz and making adjustments

coaches responsibility to teach that. arians probably didn't think it was necessary to game plan against blitzes much in the way he admittedly didn't game plan against 3-4 defenses.

Steeldude
11-01-2010, 12:38 AM
am i the only person who realizes BR, arians and the steelers' offense struggle against defenses running mass blitzes? remember the giants and eagles' games not too long ago.

NCSteeler
11-01-2010, 12:51 AM
Heath doesn't fumble, this thread doesn't exist . Tomlin made some poor choices tonight, I'm sure he'll learn from them. The offense stunk early and the defense stunk late,no biggie move on. Maybe the board could install some beer Google software. You can get an add on for gmail that quizzes you before you send mail late at night, I think we should have a drunk test to post here after a loss too.

oneforthetoe
11-01-2010, 01:18 AM
I say we contact the Cowboys and ask Jerry Jones if he will swap us head coaches.

Who's with me?:peep:

smokin3000gt
11-01-2010, 01:32 AM
Holy shit zu, I'm frustrated with the loss too but maybe you should take a step back from the keyboard and start fresh in the morning after some time to cool down? We wouldn't be talking about any of this if heath didn't cough the ball up at the end of the game. Let's not go overboard here..

Galax Steeler
11-01-2010, 03:42 AM
I think Tomlin made some bad decisions as well but the team played a poor game to there is enough blame to go around.

stlrtruck
11-01-2010, 05:00 AM
So if those 4 points wer game changing, then what about the hundreds of other plays were he had nothing to do with what happened?

Heath's fumble
Ben's INTs

I mean does the Saints get any credit for some good hits, solid play, and making a game of it last night? Or should all that be excused so the nay-sayers can bitch and moan about the coaches?

Give credit where credit is do, and move on.

HometownGal
11-01-2010, 05:18 AM
So if those 4 points wer game changing, then what about the hundreds of other plays were he had nothing to do with what happened?

Heath's fumble
Ben's INTs

I mean does the Saints get any credit for some good hits, solid play, and making a game of it last night? Or should all that be excused so the nay-sayers can bitch and moan about the coaches?

Give credit where credit is do, and move on.


http://www.pinqradio.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/applause.gif


Bingo. :drink: I think a lot of people seem to forget that there are coordinators on the other side of the ball who are planning and scheming. :doh:

zulater
11-01-2010, 05:40 AM
So if those 4 points wer game changing, then what about the hundreds of other plays were he had nothing to do with what happened?

Heath's fumble
Ben's INTs

I mean does the Saints get any credit for some good hits, solid play, and making a game of it last night? Or should all that be excused so the nay-sayers can bitch and moan about the coaches?

Give credit where credit is do, and move on.

Sure the Saints get credit. But tactically speaking tomlin changed the saints offensive momentum by twice needlessy giving them excellent field position when it was in his power to give them bad field positition. Also an ill advised challenge might have factored into the decision not to make a legitimate challenge that could have resulted in Steeler TD if it had been successfull, which it could have been.

zulater
11-01-2010, 05:46 AM
Holy shit zu, I'm frustrated with the loss too but maybe you should take a step back from the keyboard and start fresh in the morning after some time to cool down? We wouldn't be talking about any of this if heath didn't cough the ball up at the end of the game. Let's not go overboard here..

Huge difference to me between a player being pressured into a mistake by the other team and a coach making poor decisions like the ones that negativley influenced last night's game.

We have threads to discuss the poor play of various players throughout the season. So why isn't it fair game to have one where the coach's actions are questioned on a given night when it's clear that he made multiple questionable decisions that negativley influenced the game?

And again I'm not saying Tomlin's a poor coach, I'm not saying he should be fired, all I'm saying is he had a brutal night.

zulater
11-01-2010, 05:48 AM
Heath doesn't fumble, this thread doesn't exist . Tomlin made some poor choices tonight, I'm sure he'll learn from them. The offense stunk early and the defense stunk late,no biggie move on. Maybe the board could install some beer Google software. You can get an add on for gmail that quizzes you before you send mail late at night, I think we should have a drunk test to post here after a loss too.

Sure it would have. I made the thread at halftime. I apoligize for nothing, and I'm completely sober. Tomlin coached an awful game. Had we won I'd still be saying those poor decisions made the game needlessly close.

venom
11-01-2010, 05:51 AM
The Fg attempt ( miss ) and the 4th down incomplete was the game . That gave the Saints great field position and 10 points

zulater
11-01-2010, 05:59 AM
The Fg attempt ( miss ) and the 4th down incomplete was the game . That gave the Saints great field position and 10 points



Sure played a big part in it. Good offenses feed off good field position. Look how both offenses last night scored on possessions that they had good kickoff returns on. ( not that wasn't tomlin's fault, just making a point) Tomlin jump started a stagnant Saints offense with those two decisions.

GBMelBlount
11-01-2010, 06:08 AM
am i the only person who realizes BR, arians and the steelers' offense struggle against defenses running mass blitzes? remember the giants and eagles' games not too long ago.

Absolutely....and after this game I bet defenses will be salivating.

cold-hard-steel
11-01-2010, 06:35 AM
A lot can change after a game like last night. I think it was a total team loss.We did not play our best ball,and i think we all know that. We lose as a team,and we also win as a team. Being 5-2 is not as good as being 6-1,but we still have a share in first place in our division.I knew that game would give us an idea of where we are as a team.Now we know,and they know where we are.We just need to let that loss go,and focus on the trail ahead.We can't make excuses for what we coulda,shoulda done.Thats like crying over a spilled beer.

CPanther95
11-01-2010, 06:49 AM
Sure it would have. I made the thread at halftime. I apoligize for nothing, and I'm completely sober. Tomlin coached an awful game. Had we won I'd still be saying those poor decisions made the game needlessly close.

What made the game needlessly close was a complete lack of offense.

My biggest problem was not testing their secondary mid to deep on 1st and/or 2nd downs. We were only passing against a blitz on 3rd down which ended up squeezing the coverage area to under 10 yards with dump balls to our quick reads.

Texasteel
11-01-2010, 07:39 AM
I do think that Tomlin made a few mistakes. I think BA made some mistakes. I think Ben was out of sync for all but one drive, and did not look comfortable at all the whole night. I think that one reason Ben didn't look comfortable was because the like could figure out who they wanted to block. I think the running game was sluggish, probably for the same reason. I think Troy looked a little confused and didn't make plays we are use to. I think Miller is just sick this morning. What I don't think is that just one of these things cost us the game, or is reason to figure our season is it danger. I have seen games like this come and go for every team in the league, and think it would be a little childish to rant about this one like it is the end of the world. I also think that we have a very good team that will bounce back nicely next week.

I also didn't pay much attention to the Saints / Browns game last week. I knew the Saints had a good team with a great QB that could beat any team at any given day.

Cheer up, you could be a cowboy fan.

GoSlash27
11-01-2010, 09:41 AM
I'm just going to go ahead and say it. Had Arians called the entire game like he did the last few drives, we have more than 10 points.

But I'm not excusing the defense.

I'm not convinced the defense needs any excusin'. They looked pretty darn sharp. It was our offense that laid an egg and I blame that on Arians. He made no attempt whatsoever to compensate for their putting 8 guys in the box and rushing all of them on every single down. That was a desperation move on NO's part and they were dangerously over-committed. Seems like BA just doesn't adapt well to unorthodox defenses.

But as was pointed out above, we are on top of the division and reasonably healthy. It's not the end of the world.

BPS3akaWirels3
11-01-2010, 09:50 AM
SHUT THE HELL UP WHINERS!!! GOOD DAMNIT... ONE LOSE AND YOU ALL ARE THROWING IN THE TOWEL... THE STEELERS WILL LEARN FROM THIS LOSE AND PLAY BETTER... DID WE WIN THE LAST 2 SUPER BOWLS WITH A PERFECT RECORD??? NO

SUPER BOWL 43 12-4
SUPER BOWL 40 11-5

NUFF SAID...

The WH
11-01-2010, 10:00 AM
SHUT THE HELL UP WHINERS!!! GOOD DAMNIT... ONE LOSE AND YOU ALL ARE THROWING IN THE TOWEL... THE STEELERS WILL LEARN FROM THIS LOSE AND PLAY BETTER... DID WE WIN THE LAST 2 SUPER BOWLS WITH A PERFECT RECORD??? NO

SUPER BOWL 43 12-4
SUPER BOWL 40 11-5

NUFF SAID...
15-1 out of playoffs in AFCCG


So guys....I missed the game last night, how did it go?

BPS3akaWirels3
11-01-2010, 10:14 AM
15-1 out of playoffs in AFCCG


So guys....I missed the game last night, how did it go?


Your point??

The WH
11-01-2010, 11:44 AM
Your point??
that no regular season is without it's losses. and having a brilliant regular season doesn't mean shit in the playoffs. crabby pants.

BPS3akaWirels3
11-01-2010, 11:47 AM
that no regular season is without it's losses. and having a brilliant regular season doesn't mean shit in the playoffs. crabby pants.

Dam Sweden's!!:rolleyes::wink02:

cold-hard-steel
11-01-2010, 04:47 PM
that no regular season is without it's losses. and having a brilliant regular season doesn't mean shit in the playoffs. crabby pants.

What about the 72 Dolphins? You said that no regular season is without its losses.

SirHulka
11-01-2010, 04:49 PM
I saw where Miller had no fumbles in his first 57 games, and 4 fumbles in his last 24 games. (I might be off by one or two on that, the graphic wasn't there very long, and I wasn't really paying that much attention at the time.)

It would be interesting to see how many games you've lost in the last quarter during Tomlin's reign, and how many you lost during Cowher's tenure. And the Saints figured out that if you pressure #7 up the middle and on the right, you have a better chance against him. His biggest weakness is when he has to pass running to his left.

Texasteel
11-01-2010, 04:50 PM
What about the 72 Dolphins?

They didn't win the SB in the regular season, they just got there. There is a difference.

The WH
11-01-2010, 04:53 PM
What about the 72 Dolphins?
you win the ''that guy'' award for the day.

cold-hard-steel
11-01-2010, 05:06 PM
you win the ''that guy'' award for the day.

I just want to say to all that voted for me to win this award,that i'm extremely Pleased to accept this award,and it is a moment that i will cherish for as long as i live........again thank you all so much.

steeldawg
11-01-2010, 05:15 PM
I'm going to lay this one primarily at Ben's feet.

You want to see what an elite quarterback looks like? Look across to the one on the Saints. Ben should be eating the blitz alive against a depleted secondary.

And yes, I love Ben for what he does. But I really thought this was the kind of thing he was going to get better at. You know they are going to blitz... you absolutely know it! Isn't there some kind of thing that certain quarterbacks do to take advantage of that? Like throwing to the guy with one on one coverage within two seconds?

If you guys want to tell me that it's all BA's fault I'd be willing to listen. Maybe we just don't have plays where any receivers turn back before 12 seconds.

We werent watching the same game I saw ben reading the blitz very well and getting the ball out on his hot reads. The wideouts have to shoulder that blame its their job to know when they are hot read the blitz and break their routes off.

cold-hard-steel
11-01-2010, 05:34 PM
They didn't win the SB in the regular season, they just got there. There is a difference.

Yeah,i see how it is,now you're gettin cute with me. What size shoes do you wear......oh scratch that,it doesn't matter. LOL!
I remembered my sig. I could ask what style you prefer.

The WH
11-01-2010, 06:06 PM
I just want to say to all that voted for me to win this award,that i'm extremely Pleased to accept this award,and it is a moment that i will cherish for as long as i live........again thank you all so much.
short and sweet. didnīt even need the cut you off with the orchestra.

zulater
11-01-2010, 06:31 PM
SHUT THE HELL UP WHINERS!!! GOOD DAMNIT... ONE LOSE AND YOU ALL ARE THROWING IN THE TOWEL... THE STEELERS WILL LEARN FROM THIS LOSE AND PLAY BETTER... DID WE WIN THE LAST 2 SUPER BOWLS WITH A PERFECT RECORD??? NO

SUPER BOWL 43 12-4
SUPER BOWL 40 11-5

NUFF SAID...

What's with the caps?

We also were 6-2 last season at the midway point before the bottom dropped out. If I had suggested to anyone after we beat the Broncos on MNF last year that we'd lose the next 5 games I'd have been laughed off the board. Losing can snowball in a hurry in the NFL. That's why I take every loss seriously and absolutely refuse to take any future game for granted.

Long story short it's tough enough to win in the NFL without your coach contributing to the opponents cause, and last night several of Tomlin's decisions bit the team in the ass.

86WARD
11-01-2010, 07:38 PM
#1 should be letting Arians call the offensive game plan. It was awful. Straight garbage!!

SteelerEmpire
11-01-2010, 07:51 PM
#1 should be letting Arians call the offensive game plan. It was awful. Straight garbage!!

Could not have said it better...

steelpride12
11-01-2010, 08:13 PM
It's not the end of the world. Sure there were several awful calls made by Arians and Tomlin, but I see a few every game and we always overcome. We will watch film and plan accordingly for the Bungles and will be better.

Wallace108
11-02-2010, 01:03 AM
#1 should be letting Arians call the offensive game plan. It was awful. Straight garbage!!

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/4779/bruceandben.jpg

Craic
11-02-2010, 01:19 AM
Only needed the last 15 posts to get the gist of the thread.

Let's see if I get this right.

1. Arians sucks.

2. We should have run the ball more

3. We excuse the players for executing in order to condemn Arians.

4. The defense and Lebeau are never at fault even though they played about the worst half of football I have seen since I don't know when.

5. Oh yeah... Arians is the scapegoat.


Did I miss anything?

Wallace108
11-02-2010, 01:28 AM
Only needed the last 15 posts to get the gist of the thread.

Let's see if I get this right.

1. Arians sucks.

2. We should have run the ball more

3. We excuse the players for executing in order to condemn Arians.

4. The defense and Lebeau are never at fault even though they played about the worst half of football I have seen since I don't know when.

5. Oh yeah... Arians is the scapegoat.


Did I miss anything?

You forgot to mention that Arians is the antichrist. :chuckle:

The WH
11-02-2010, 03:34 AM
I think they should have passed more.

zulater
11-02-2010, 06:22 AM
Only needed the last 15 posts to get the gist of the thread.

Let's see if I get this right.

1. Arians sucks.

2. We should have run the ball more

3. We excuse the players for executing in order to condemn Arians.

4. The defense and Lebeau are never at fault even though they played about the worst half of football I have seen since I don't know when.

5. Oh yeah... Arians is the scapegoat.


Did I miss anything?


Well being as I'm the OP and have probably contributed more posts to the thread than anyone to it I can say yeah, you missed an awful lot, and your assertions are as to what the thread is about are as innacurate as a Jeff Reed 50 yard fg. attempt.

In your zeal and paranoia to defend Arians you've missed the fact that this thread mostly concerns itself with several questionable coaching decisions made by the head coach Mike tomlin.

Yes I realize some posters have brought up Arians, which is fair in a thread that largly concerns itself with coaching, but the point of the thread is to question several poor choices ( imo) made by Mike Tomlin. Some of my points might be more debatable than others, but one that is indisputable is that Tomlin and the Steelers did a miserable job handling on field coaching challenges in this game.

Hammer67
11-02-2010, 06:33 AM
Lots of Monday Morning QBing in this thread. There were a few questionable calls out there (going for it on 4th down early in a close game, etc.) but all in all, the Offensive line got manhandled, the WR's didn't break their routes when NO showed blitz, and Ben did not do a good job adjusting. Coaches should not need to adjust to loud stadiums, at this point. Don't they always practice for this?

Anyway, one loss to an NFC team, the SM champs to boot, does not equal "sky is falling" hysteria. Any given Sunday folks...

zulater
11-02-2010, 06:36 AM
Just reviewing this thread, the first 9 pages Arians hardly rates a mention. Just the last couple pages someone singled Arians out and a few agreed with it, and the first 9 pages and what the "jist" of the thread is gets tossed aside. lol

SteelerSal
11-02-2010, 06:37 AM
Lots of Monday Morning QBing in this thread. There were a few questionable calls out there (going for it on 4th down early in a close game, etc.) but all in all, the Offensive line got manhandled, the WR's didn't break their routes when NO showed blitz, and Ben did not do a good job adjusting. Coaches should not need to adjust to loud stadiums, at this point. Don't they always practice for this?

Anyway, one loss to an NFC team, the SM champs to boot, does not equal "sky is falling" hysteria. Any given Sunday folks...

Good post!

zulater
11-02-2010, 06:40 AM
Lots of Monday Morning QBing in this thread. There were a few questionable calls out there (going for it on 4th down early in a close game, etc.) but all in all, the Offensive line got manhandled, the WR's didn't break their routes when NO showed blitz, and Ben did not do a good job adjusting. Coaches should not need to adjust to loud stadiums, at this point. Don't they always practice for this?

Anyway, one loss to an NFC team, the SM champs to boot, does not equal "sky is falling" hysteria. Any given Sunday folks...

A season can turn on a dime in the NFL. Every loss matters.

I think the non challenge on Mendy's second and goal carry, the 51 yard fg att., and the 4th and 4 try all weighed heavily on the outcome of this game. Those were coaching decisions. That's why Tomlin carries a large part of the burden of this loss imo. A coach's job is to put his players in favorable positions. He fell short this one night imo.

SteelerSal
11-02-2010, 06:43 AM
The loss was a total team effort, from the top to the bottom, Period! Not just one or two areas.

zulater
11-02-2010, 06:50 AM
The loss was a total team effort, from the top to the bottom, Period! Not just one or two areas.

Never said it wasn't. However this thread mostly concerns itself with the coaching aspect of the game, and where it came into the equation. Period.

Texasteel
11-02-2010, 06:52 AM
Just reviewing this thread, the first 9 pages Arians hardly rates a mention. Just the last couple pages someone singled Arians out and a few agreed with it, and the first 9 pages and what the "jist" of the thread is gets tossed aside. lol

I would get too hurt Zu just because not everyone thinks the way you do. If the thread didn't go exactly the way you wanted just start another one.

zulater
11-02-2010, 06:55 AM
I would get too hurt Zu just because not everyone thinks the way you do. If the thread didn't go exactly the way you wanted just start another one.

I'm not hurt, I was just pointing out the total innacuracy of Preacher's assumtions as to the premise of this thread..

Texasteel
11-02-2010, 06:55 AM
A season can turn on a dime in the NFL. Every loss matters.

I think the non challenge on Mendy's second and goal carry, the 51 yard fg att., and the 4th and 4 try all weighed heavily on the outcome of this game. Those were coaching decisions. That's why Tomlin carries a large part of the burden of this loss imo. A coach's job is to put his players in favorable positions. He fell short this one night imo.

To a questionable team, maybe. If this teams year turns on one call or non call then it is not what we had hoped it was. I for one think it will bounce back.

Texasteel
11-02-2010, 07:00 AM
I'm not hurt, I was just pointing out the total innacuracy of Preacher's assumtions as to the premise of this thread..

Given the history of of some here, and the post right after his, I don't think his assumptions were totally inaccurate.

zulater
11-02-2010, 07:04 AM
To a questionable team, maybe. If this teams year turns on one call or non call then it is not what we had hoped it was. I for one think it will bounce back.

I think and hope it will bounce back too. But I also never thought we'd lose 5 in a row last year coming off a Monday night victory at Denver. Think about it, we were actually in exactly the same place last year as we are today ( 5-2 no Aaron Smith), with the exception of having a healthy Polamalu.

Take nothing for granted. This team lives on the edge more games than not, that's why it's essential that the right challenges are made or not made. Why it's important to know the limits of your fg kicker and when it's reasonable to try to kick outside his comfort zone. Gauging the continuity of your offense on a particuliar game to the point of knowing when it's correct to be agressive on a 4th down call or not.

Texasteel
11-02-2010, 09:43 AM
I think and hope it will bounce back too. But I also never thought we'd lose 5 in a row last year coming off a Monday night victory at Denver. Think about it, we were actually in exactly the same place last year as we are today ( 5-2 no Aaron Smith), with the exception of having a healthy Polamalu.

Take nothing for granted. This team lives on the edge more games than not, that's why it's essential that the right challenges are made or not made. Why it's important to know the limits of your fg kicker and when it's reasonable to try to kick outside his comfort zone. Gauging the continuity of your offense on a particuliar game to the point of knowing when it's correct to be agressive on a 4th down call or not.


There is a lot of difference in this team and the one last year. For one Troy is in fact playing, this is something that many here last year placed the biggest reason for last years slide. Another is that I do believe that Hood is more ready to step in for Smith. I think the offense has show an increased ability to sustain drives this year, and the running game does look to be on its way back.

I don't have a crystal ball to tell you for sure what will happen, but I don't think you do either. I will tell you that if this years hinges on what happened Sunday, we were in big trouble already.

Wallace108
11-02-2010, 09:49 AM
Given the history of of some here, and the post right after his, I don't think his assumptions were totally inaccurate.

Is that a shot at me, Tex? Sorry for trying to add a little humor. I'll go back to the basement now. :pout:

Wallace108
11-02-2010, 10:25 AM
Here's something I've noticed in the past few weeks ...

After we beat the Dolphins, Zu started a thread questioning a play call. The discussion turned to questioning a few other play calls. Those who were having the discussion were told my others: "Hey, we won, how can you possibly have anything to bitch about? Move on."

Now after we lost to the Saints, Zu starts a thread questioning some of the play calls. Now people who are having the discussion are told: "Hey, we lost. The sky isn't falling ... we're 5-2 ... how can you possibly have anything to bitch about? Move on."

I've followed both threads, and in neither have I seen any Arians bashing or Tomlin bashing. I've seen thoughtful discussion questioning the coaches' play calling. But it seems some people don't like to hear any criticism of the team.

Hell, even some who normally support Tomlin and Arians questioned their play calling after the Saints game.

And guess what, folks, playing Monday morning quarterback is one of the fun aspects of a team discussion forum. But from what I gather, it doesn't matter whether we win or lose. Some people feel that the coaches should NEVER be questioned.

Here's an idea. We all can go out and buy cheerleader outfits and pom-poms and do nothing but cheer for the Steelers, whether they win or lose. :cheer2:

Texasteel
11-02-2010, 10:28 AM
Is that a shot at me, Tex? Sorry for trying to add a little humor. I'll go back to the basement now. :pout:

No Wally, I would never take a shot at you, you should know that. I was just pointing out that BA is in fact on peoples minds whether we bring his name up or not. It's just a fact. As far as the basement is concerned, if you like it down here I can make room for you.

fansince'76
11-02-2010, 10:33 AM
But from what I gather, it doesn't matter whether we win or lose. Some people feel that the coaches should NEVER be questioned.

Sorry, but no. Where the arguments started in each thread is that someone tried to interject a different viewpoint and were immediately dismissed as a Kool-Aid drinking, cheerleading apologist. For instance, I think I asked a valid question towards the beginning of this thread (specifically, why was the 51-yard FG try by Reed in the Saints game such a bad decision, and the decision NOT to try another 51-yarder in another game in a very similar circumstance recently also derided as a horrible decision?) and was immediately derided as an apologist who is riding Tomlin's sack. And as far as never questioning the coaches is concerned, sorry, also wrong. I'm still scratching my head as to why we didn't try the QB sneak on the goal line, I said as much at the time in the Gameday thread and I also said the challenge of the non-fumble was horrible at the time too. Frankly, I think the guy(s) working the booth who advise Tomlin on these matters should be replaced pronto.

Texasteel
11-02-2010, 10:42 AM
Here's something I've noticed in the past few weeks ...

After we beat the Dolphins, Zu started a thread questioning a play call. The discussion turned to questioning a few other play calls. Those who were having the discussion were told my others: "Hey, we won, how can you possibly have anything to bitch about? Move on."

Now after we lost to the Saints, Zu starts a thread questioning some of the play calls. Now people who are having the discussion are told: "Hey, we lost. The sky isn't falling ... we're 5-2 ... how can you possibly have anything to bitch about? Move on."

I've followed both threads, and in neither have I seen any Arians bashing or Tomlin bashing. I've seen thoughtful discussion questioning the coaches' play calling. But it seems some people don't like to hear any criticism of the team.

Hell, even some who normally support Tomlin and Arians questioned their play calling after the Saints game.

And guess what, folks, playing Monday morning quarterback is one of the fun aspects of a team discussion forum. But from what I gather, it doesn't matter whether we win or lose. Some people feel that the coaches should NEVER be questioned.

Here's an idea. We all can go out and buy cheerleader outfits and pom-poms and do nothing but cheer for the Steelers, whether they win or lose. :cheer2:


I don't think any discussion has been squelched Pro or Con. I still think that if one has the right to question a call or a coach then the other has a right to say they think this is beating a dead horse, and we need to move on. You can't just have the post you like and everyone else can go find their own thread. It's give and take for everyone, not just a few.

As far as the cheerleaders outfits are concerned. Some might look cute in one, but I just don't have the legs for it.

Wallace108
11-02-2010, 10:43 AM
Sorry, but no. Where the arguments started in each thread is that someone tried to interject a different viewpoint and were immediately dismissed as a Kool-Aid drinking, cheerleading apologist. For instance, I think I asked a valid question towards the beginning of this thread (specifically, why was the 51-yard FG try by Reed in the Saints game such a bad decision, and the decision not to try the 51-yarder in another game in a very similar circumstance recently also derided as a horrible decision?) and was immediately derided as an apologist who is riding Tomlin's sack. And as far as never questioning the coaches is concerned, sorry, also wrong. I'm still scratching my head as to why we didn't try the QB sneak on the goal line, I said as much at the time in the Gameday thread and I also said the challenge of the non-fumble was horrible at the time too.

Luckily for me, I never pointed anyone out by name. So if anyone takes offense to what I said, that's not on me. I even pointed out that some people who have been defending the coaches came out and questioned play calls after the Saints game.

In both threads, people disagreed with Zu's argument ... and that's fine. That's what discussion is about.

But in both threads, someone came along with nothing to add to the discussion other than to say there's nothing to discuss ... move on.

Wallace108
11-02-2010, 10:47 AM
I don't think any discussion has been squelched Pro or Con. I still think that if one has the right to question a call or a coach then the other has a right to say they think this is beating a dead horse, and we need to move on.

Tex, that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. If people want to disagree with an argument, that's awesome! But to come into a thread and say that it's not worthy of discussion is :bs:

What if you have a thread where people are discussing Obamacare, and someone comes in and says, "Health care has been discussed ad nauseum. And every time it's discussed, the conversation always turns into Obama bashing. You guys are beating a dead horse and need to move on."

That's exactly what's happening here. :noidea:

fansince'76
11-02-2010, 10:49 AM
In both threads, people disagreed with Zu's argument ... and that's fine. That's what discussion is about.

Sorry, but to me, it doesn't seem to be fine, hence the apologist and cheerleader remarks. That's what I was pointing out. I also think a lot of people are upset right after a loss and that exacerbates things. I know I for one said some things the other night I regret and will check myself in the future.

Wallace108
11-02-2010, 10:56 AM
Sorry, but to me, it doesn't seem to be fine, hence the apologist and cheerleader remarks. That's what I was pointing out.

I'm sorry if other people have tagged you or anyone else with being an apologist. I haven't done that, and nor would I.

If we're criticizing Tomlin's or Arians's play calls, and you or anyone else wants to enter the debate and defend the play calls, that's beautiful. That's what debate should be about ... getting both sides. And I don't want to speak for Zu, but I'm pretty sure he would agree.

But when someone enters a discussion and doesn't have anything to offer other than to tell people they're beating a dead horse and they need to move on ... I think that's wrong.

Texasteel
11-02-2010, 10:56 AM
Tex, that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. If people want to disagree with an argument, that's awesome! But to come into a thread and say that it's not worthy of discussion is :bs:

What if you have a thread where people are discussing Obamacare, and someone comes in and says, "Health care has been discussed ad nauseum. And every time it's discussed, the conversation always turns into Obama bashing. You guys are beating a dead horse and need to move on."

That's exactly what's happening here. :noidea:


I have seen this happen in threads criticizing Obama, and they had a right to. Then the same person complain about some one stating this in one of their threads. That person though he had a right to write this when he wanted to, and he did. How ever another, any other had, and has the right to make the same statement. Its just fair and honest. It's not bullshit.

fansince'76
11-02-2010, 10:58 AM
But when someone enters a discussion and doesn't have anything to offer other than to tell people they're beating a dead horse and they need to move on ... I think that's wrong.

On this point, I agree. Talk what you want to talk about - that's why we're here. :drink:

Wallace108
11-02-2010, 11:01 AM
On this point, I agree. Talk what you want to talk about - that's why we're here. :drink:

Good play call, FS. :chuckle:
:drink:

zulater
11-02-2010, 11:01 AM
Sorry, but no. Where the arguments started in each thread is that someone tried to interject a different viewpoint and were immediately dismissed as a Kool-Aid drinking, cheerleading apologist. For instance, I think I asked a valid question towards the beginning of this thread (specifically, why was the 51-yard FG try by Reed in the Saints game such a bad decision, and the decision NOT to try another 51-yarder in another game in a very similar circumstance recently also derided as a horrible decision?) and was immediately derided as an apologist who is riding Tomlin's sack.


I also answered your question. To wit one occured with virtually no time left on the clock against a not so dangerous qb. This time you gave Drew Brees 1.37 to go 25 yards for the tying fg


And as far as never questioning the coaches is concerned, sorry, also wrong. I'm still scratching my head as to why we didn't try the QB sneak on the goal line, I said as much at the time in the Gameday thread and I also said the challenge of the non-fumble was horrible at the time too. Frankly, I think the guy(s) working the booth who advise Tomlin on these matters should be replaced pronto.

Yay, we agree on something! :lol:

fansince'76
11-02-2010, 11:03 AM
Yay, we agree on something! :lol:

Again I apologize for the other night, Zu - I said some things in the heat of the moment I shouldn't have said. :drink:

Wallace108
11-02-2010, 11:10 AM
I have seen this happen in threads criticizing Obama, and they had a right to. Then the same person complain about some one stating this in one of their threads. That person though he had a right to write this when he wanted to, and he did. How ever another, any other had, and has the right to make the same statement. Its just fair and honest. It's not bullshit.

Tex, one of these days you're going to be having a respectful discussion with someone, and I'm going to drop in and post one of these:

http://smiliesftw.com/x/beatdeadhorse5.gif

And you'd better not criticize me for offering my "opinion" on the discussion. :nono:


Just kidding, buddy. :chuckle:

zulater
11-02-2010, 11:13 AM
Again I apologize for the other night, Zu - I said some things in the heat of the moment I shouldn't have said. :drink:

You have nothing to apoligize for Fan.:wave: I tend to lead with my chin with many of my responces, in fact it's fair to say that often my responces read more like rebukes, :boink: so if I get clipped I usually had it coming.:dizzy: :chuckle:

We're always good fan! :thumbsup:

vasteeler
11-02-2010, 11:13 AM
i should have known better than to check in after a loss:doh2:

BPS3akaWirels3
11-02-2010, 11:14 AM
Listen... We are not the players or the coaches so for us to sit here and say some of the things we have said is not right... Most of this is out of frustration.. I know I was really pissed when Miller fumbled the ball but have to let that go as he is a GREAT TE. What we need to do is support our guys on and off the field. We can try and figure it out but why? What can we do? Two things: SUPPORT AND P.R.I.D.E

zulater
11-02-2010, 11:17 AM
Listen... We are not the players or the coaches so for us to sit here and say some of the things we have said is not right... Most of this is out of frustration.. I know I was really pissed when Miller fumbled the ball but have to let that go as he is a GREAT TE. What we need to do is support our guys on and off the field. We can try and figure it out but why? What can we do? Two things: SUPPORT AND P.R.I.D.E

That's your way and that's fine for you. But it's not my way.

Wallace108
11-02-2010, 11:19 AM
Listen... We are not the players or the coaches so for us to sit here and say some of the things we have said is not right... Most of this is out of frustration.. I know I was really pissed when Miller fumbled the ball but have to let that go as he is a GREAT TE. What we need to do is support our guys on and off the field. We can try and figure it out but why? What can we do? Two things: SUPPORT AND P.R.I.D.E

You forgot to include this, BPS ... :cheer2: :chuckle:
Sorry, bro. I couldn't resist. :lol:

zulater
11-02-2010, 01:48 PM
Listen... We are not the players or the coaches so for us to sit here and say some of the things we have said is not right... Most of this is out of frustration.. I know I was really pissed when Miller fumbled the ball but have to let that go as he is a GREAT TE. What we need to do is support our guys on and off the field. We can try and figure it out but why? What can we do? Two things: SUPPORT AND P.R.I.D.E

Just to get back to this, players and coaches are paid a lot of money to do their job. When you accept the check it should come with the understanding that you're subject to be critisized, and scrutinized by fans and the media. As long as we don't attack coaches or players personally, and our critisisms have some degree of validity then no one should have a problem with it.

zulater
11-02-2010, 03:44 PM
Tomlin regrets not challenging Mendenhall's near TD (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_707291.html)

After reviewing film from the Steelers' 20-10 loss last Sunday in New Orleans, coach Mike Tomlin said he should have challenged a call that might have resulted in a touchdown.

It came on a run by Rashard Mendenhall early in the second quarter from the Saints' 1-yard line. Officials ruled that Mendenhall did not get into the end zone, and the Steelers didn't challenge the call.

"We didn't think he crossed the plane (of the goal line) and he didn't either," Tomlin said.

The Steelers were stopped on third down as well and settled for a 19-yard field goal by Jeff Reed.

While Tomlin said he should have challenged the call, he added that it should not have been an issue since the Steelers had three plays from the Saints' 1-yard line

:bs:

This makes no sense, if it wasn't a touchdown why do you regret not challenging it now? Maybe the key is reading between the lines,


We didn't think he crossed the plane (of the goal line) and he didn't either Translates into he didn't cross the plane of goal line, but the ball sure did.

oneforthetoe
11-02-2010, 06:35 PM
From Ed Bouchette chat:




steelerfaninNM: Ed, what do the coaches see differently in the booth than we do at home. MT challenges an obvious down by contact play on a punt return and then fails to challenge an obvious Mendy touchdown run on that fateful 1st and goal series in which Mendy was tackled on top of the defender and roll over with the ball clearly crossing the goalline, what gives?

Ed Bouchette: I figured this is what happened and after further checking today, I found out it is true. The television in the visiting coaches booth in New Orleans was tuned to the scoreboard view of the game, which is controlled by the home team. The home team will never show a replay if a successful challenge would hurt the home team. Thus, they did not show the replay on the video screen at the game and so the Steelers coaches never saw what we all saw -- the NBC network telecast that clearly showed Rashard Mendenhall had scored. Tomlin had no idea because he did not see it clearly and no one from the Steelers ever saw a replay. He should have called me in the press box because I saw it.
http://ht.ly/19LupL

I'm all for home field advantage, but this is something the NFL might need to look into. The coaches in the booths for both teams should get the Network Feed.

Edited to add the following:


littleworker: Your answer about the replays is troubling. We at home should not have better replays than the coaches. It was clear the Saints player was down by contact and that the play would not be overturned. Is this the case every Sunday in the NFL? The coaches need to have the best replays!

Ed Bouchette: Yes, but they do not. MT said they have them when they go to places they are familiar with, probably because if they did not the Steelers could retaliate by cutting the video when they come to Heinz. The league should step in, but again, don't look for that to happen anytime soon because the league is busy looking at all those hits on slow-mo, hi def.

Oh snap ....gota Give Ed some props on that answer.

Craic
11-02-2010, 06:48 PM
But when someone enters a discussion and doesn't have anything to offer other than to tell people they're beating a dead horse and they need to move on ... I think that's wrong.

http://www.14ers.com/phpBB3/images/smilies/More/icon_deadhorse1.gif




I'm so wrong!




But not as wrong as this!


Sorry Preacher...had to lose the picture.

http://www.johnehrenfeld.com/book/images/smiley%202-1.jpg Sorry, I'll leave now. :chuckle: (why do I think the mods aren't going to leave that pic up?) And well, yeah, maybe for good reason.

zulater
11-02-2010, 06:51 PM
From Ed Bouchette chat:




steelerfaninNM: Ed, what do the coaches see differently in the booth than we do at home. MT challenges an obvious down by contact play on a punt return and then fails to challenge an obvious Mendy touchdown run on that fateful 1st and goal series in which Mendy was tackled on top of the defender and roll over with the ball clearly crossing the goalline, what gives?

Ed Bouchette: I figured this is what happened and after further checking today, I found out it is true. The television in the visiting coaches booth in New Orleans was tuned to the scoreboard view of the game, which is controlled by the home team. The home team will never show a replay if a successful challenge would hurt the home team. Thus, they did not show the replay on the video screen at the game and so the Steelers coaches never saw what we all saw -- the NBC network telecast that clearly showed Rashard Mendenhall had scored. Tomlin had no idea because he did not see it clearly and no one from the Steelers ever saw a replay. He should have called me in the press box because I saw it.
http://ht.ly/19LupL

I'm all for home field advantage, but this is something the NFL might need to look into. The coaches in the booths for both teams should get the Network Feed.

Edited to add the following:


littleworker: Your answer about the replays is troubling. We at home should not have better replays than the coaches. It was clear the Saints player was down by contact and that the play would not be overturned. Is this the case every Sunday in the NFL? The coaches need to have the best replays!

Ed Bouchette: Yes, but they do not. MT said they have them when they go to places they are familiar with, probably because if they did not the Steelers could retaliate by cutting the video when they come to Heinz. The league should step in, but again, don't look for that to happen anytime soon because the league is busy looking at all those hits on slow-mo, hi def.

Oh snap ....gota Give Ed some props on that answer.

Somehow I don't think the Patriots leave themselves vulnerable to a homer scoreboard operater that's been instructed not to show replays favoring the visitor. There's got to be ways to circumvent the feed, the Steelers need to find it.

oneforthetoe
11-02-2010, 06:55 PM
Somehow I don't think the Patriots leave themselves vulnerable to a homer scoreboard operater that's been instructed not to show replays favoring the visitor. There's got to be ways to circumvent the feed, the Steelers need to find it.

Later in the chat Bouchette suggested the coaches bring a portable TV with rabbit ears. He said some reporter in the press box do that very thing.

cold-hard-steel
11-02-2010, 07:13 PM
Hope we play our best ball during them thar times.

cold-hard-steel
11-02-2010, 07:22 PM
I's be sittin here a waitin for you all to arrive. We have some........................................lol, i had to end it. Sorry all.
Make sure you all come back now hear?

zulater
11-02-2010, 07:27 PM
Later in the chat Bouchette suggested the coaches bring a portable TV with rabbit ears. He said some reporter in the press box do that very thing.

Great idea. Hard to believe a billion dollar enterprise such as the Steelers couldn't figure that one out for themselves. :doh:

cold-hard-steel
11-02-2010, 07:29 PM
I'm in the middle right this instance of tryin to find a remedy for stupidness. I just called sakrete......and, sorry i gotta go.

cold-hard-steel
11-02-2010, 07:33 PM
Come on guys, we have a strong corp of players to make us all proud. We can't unite,if we are all appart. Just sayin,thats all.

zulater
11-02-2010, 07:36 PM
Come on guys, we have a strong corp of players to make us all proud. We can't unite,if we are all appart. Just sayin,thats all.



Don't worry I love the Steelers, Tomlin, Arians, and all. But if I think they could have done something better, be it player or coach I'm going to say my piece.And that's all I'm doing here, saying my piece, and hoping they get it better next time. :wave:

SteelerSal
11-02-2010, 07:40 PM
Don't worry I love the Steelers, Tomlin, Arians, and all. But if I think they could have done something better, be it player or coach I'm going to say my piece.And that's all I'm doing here, saying my piece, and hoping they get it better next time. :wave:

15 pages of saying your piece. :lol:

cold-hard-steel
11-02-2010, 07:41 PM
Tomlin will be all right. I remember his first year when we were all somwhere else. He was a rookie to taking over for a world class team. I just think he is growing in his knowledge also. He's gettin his bumps and bruises like our whole team. I support him.

X-Terminator
11-02-2010, 07:42 PM
15 pages of saying your piece. :lol:

I'm only seeing 5 pages? :noidea:

:chuckle:

zulater
11-02-2010, 07:43 PM
15 pages of saying your piece. :lol:

I'm a stutterer.

stillers4me
11-02-2010, 07:43 PM
I'm only seeing 5 pages? :noidea:

:chuckle:

It just seems like 15.

zulater
11-02-2010, 07:47 PM
Tomlin will be all right. I remember his first year when we were all somwhere else. He was a rookie to taking over for a world class team. I just think he is growing in his knowledge also. He's gettin his bumps and bruises like our whole team. I support him.

I support him too. 95% of the coaches job is done before the players lace 'em up on gameday. I have no problem with the way the team is composed, disciplined, motivated, or prepared. ( usually) Tomlin is without doubt elite. I just wish he'd get this challenge shit down a little better. Oh yeah he can stop letting Reed attempt 50 yarders if there's more than 30 seconds on the clock too.

X-Terminator
11-02-2010, 07:47 PM
It just seems like 15.

LOL...nah, I just have my thread viewing preferences set to 30 posts per page, instead of 10. Really comes in handy in the Gameday thread!

cold-hard-steel
11-02-2010, 07:57 PM
I don't mean to overide anyones frame of mind,but i think Tomlin is growing too.He is trying to be what we all want him to be,and at the same time he is trying to make us the most winningest superbowl franchise on the planet.(oh i'm sorry,we are that) I got lost from there on , cause i have had a few too many orders with all the bags of stuff we have coming in.

cold-hard-steel
11-02-2010, 08:02 PM
Tomlin will be fine. he's growing just as the players he has drafted. He is in the beginning of his career of crafting his own legacy. What would most of us do?

cold-hard-steel
11-02-2010, 08:13 PM
I support him too. 95% of the coaches job is done before the players lace 'em up on gameday. I have no problem with the way the team is composed, disciplined, motivated, or prepared. ( usually) Tomlin is without doubt elite. I just wish he'd get this challenge shit down a little better. Oh yeah he can stop letting Reed attempt 50 yarders if there's more than 30 seconds on the clock too.

I don't know,but i think every choice he makes is measured for the better of the team. He's wrong he learned. Thats how all his players must learn also.I like his trying thus far.

cold-hard-steel
11-02-2010, 08:19 PM
I don't seem Tomlin as just a 5 year project. He seems to know the legacy of the team he is into this whole thing with. When he used to go to work each day he passed 5 trophies,now he has got to look at 6. What a job man!!!

cold-hard-steel
11-02-2010, 08:34 PM
Well,i have a few orders for some formed shoes to make,so i will chat with you all later.I hate bein the concrete cobbler.
LOL. I love my family.

HollywoodSteel
11-02-2010, 09:18 PM
Just letting you all know now that if we lose to the Bengals, I promise that I will criticize something.

You might as well tell me to move on, not to panic, and be glad I'm not a Cowboys fan now, because come Sunday I won't be hearing you.
:lol:

Texasteel
11-02-2010, 09:32 PM
Tex, one of these days you're going to be having a respectful discussion with someone, and I'm going to drop in and post one of these:

http://smiliesftw.com/x/beatdeadhorse5.gif

And you'd better not criticize me for offering my "opinion" on the discussion. :nono:


Just kidding, buddy. :chuckle:


If that is your true opinion thats fine, but I really can't remember a topic long enough to beat it too long. I'm going to bed, see you in the morning bud.

zulater
11-03-2010, 06:28 AM
I called it early, and I called it correctly, the coaches lost this game more than the players. While it's true that coaches don't miss blocks or tackles, commit penalties or turnovers etc... it is their job to put their team in favorable situations. And on this Sunday they didn't.They failed the team by not using their challenges correctly. They quite likely cost the team an early TD in this way. They failed the team by not recognizing the value of starting field position. (I'll explain this more later) I think it can be sucessfully argued that the Steelers coaching decisions negativley impacted the scoreboard by a minimum of 10 points, the eventual losing margin. And that to me is pitiful.

Not calling for anyone's job, not saying it's a long term issue that can't be corrected, I'm just saying on this night the coaches let us down.

zulater
11-03-2010, 10:18 AM
Just to make my point one final time here's something to consider.

The Saints had 10 offensive possessions against the Steelers. 5 of those possessions started inside the Saints 26 yard line. The Saints didn't score a single point on those possessions. Their other 5 drives started at their own 41 yard line or better, they scored on 4 of 5 of those possessions, all of their 20 points.

Trying a long fg with that much time left in the half gave them possession at their own 41. Punt there and you likely pin them inside their 15, maybe even their own 10 yard line.

4th and 4, again we gave them the ball at their own 41, punt there and they likely start their possession inside their own 15.

A coaching staff has to be able to identify the kind of game they're in. Some games evolve into a shootout, sometimes the game shapes up as a battle of attrition, one that field position is tantamount to success. Tomlin misread the pulse of this game. and he also misread the pulse of his team, i.e not knowing his kicker would likely miss from 51 yards,and not knowing that his sputtering offense wasn't a good bet to make fourth and 4.

SteelMember
11-03-2010, 11:31 AM
Your points have merit, Zu. Although, it's always easier to evaluate in retrospect. While the 51 yard FG might seem too long to attempt for you, and while I agree that a try of that distance is always a risk, I think Tomlin may have been just showing his belief in Reed. Nothing more. The fact that it was in a more controlled environment probably helped the decision.

Also, the 4th and 4 at that spot... I've seen it both ways. Too far for a FG. Too close for a punt. Most teams that elect to punt probably take a delay of game to move back a few more yards. My opinion, once again was Tomlin saying to his players... "Show me what you can do". He's backing his players and taking them to task. Now, in retrospect, this may seem ill advised, but I can see how he might have arrived at these decisions. This was a very emotional and physical game. That was easy to see in the early going. He arguably put the outcome too squarely on the players shoulders, but it was a road game of course, and he may have played it a little differently because of that fact alone.

One thing I found interesting... after the fact, was his decision to have El take the punts. During the game, I questioned way the hell he was in there to begin with, but after thinking about it, I understood the decision better. Yes, we had to take about 4 fair catches at the 10 yard line, but having a rookie in there that may try and do too much could have been a much worse idea. And when the opportunity for a possible return presented itself, Sanders was in there.

While we may question the decisions, there is no way to say for sure a play will work or not. You can just look at the percentages and take your best informed decision. Plays that work are always the smart ones. The ones that don't are the ones that get criticized. "Such is life in the NFL."

I can tell you this... Taking the emotion out after a few days can be a good thing somtimes. People aren't as inclined to critcize one way or the other, given some time to reflect.

steel striker
11-03-2010, 02:52 PM
Time to move on people that game is history and, if we can ever take care of the red zone on offense it would have been a different outcome. Atleast it was not a division game. The offense has to play better bottom line. You can't score ten points and, expect to beat the saints.