Bruce Arians stupid reverse tricks.

[zulater]

:dizzy: Has that play worked once all year? 2nd and 4, great field position, qb playing out of his mind and what do you do, take the ball out of Ben's hands and use a play that loses yardage every time. Moron.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yeah, not a big fan of going side to side in the NFL.........especially when as you say, Ben is playing out of his mind.

[pepsyman1]

Bruce calls some very good plays....but he doesn't call them WHEN they should be used. He's got no sense of situational football at all.

[X-Terminator]

Not his call, folks. Ben calls the plays in the 2 minute offense - this has been well-established already.

[zulater]

Not his call, folks. Ben calls the plays in the 2 minute offense - this has been well-established already.

Uh huh, sure. What's worse Arians apoligists or NPR's? :chuckle:

[Steelman]

Not his call, folks. Ben calls the plays in the 2 minute offense - this has been well-established already.

Ben calls a reverse there? I find that hard to believe.

[steelpride12]

Well who ever makes the call I don't care who, it's not a smart play. We are about going down hill not side to side and that's always been how the Steelers play. It hasn't worked for years and won't now.

[Mach1]

Who ever it was that made the call, it sucked!

[X-Terminator]

Uh huh, sure. What's worse Arians apoligists or NPR's? :chuckle:

Zu, you know damn freaking well that this was established 2 years ago. Don't give me that crap.

Arians bashers are worse, because all you people do is wait for him to wait for one mistake before jumping all over him, yet NEVER give him credit for a damn thing.

[pepsyman1]

Ben calls a reverse there? I find that hard to believe.

SOMETIMES Ben makes the calls. It's not a given. Ben would like to go no huddle more often and you don't see that happening. That play was called after a timeout, I'm sure Ben came back onto the field with that call.

[zulater]

How 'bout this, take that play out of the playbook unless it's 3rd and forever.

[tube517]

Whoever called it, it rarely works. The play has been used before during Cowher's tenure pre-Ben. But the timing of the last one was horrible.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Wasn't the reverse in the redzone too? lol

[steel9guy]

I was actually somewhat pleased with their play calling. I think they need to keep on trying to run without-Meweldae Moore.

[X-Terminator]

Wasn't the reverse in the redzone too? lol

It took them out of field goal range, so no.

Listen, I'm not saying it was a good call. It wasn't. I just refuse to let people get away with selective amnesia when it comes to the playcalling. Everyone here knows that Ben calls all the plays during the 2:00 offense, and has done so for at least 2 years.

[SMR]

How 'bout this, take that play out of the playbook unless it's 3rd and forever.

I'm with you on THAT one.

[SMR]

Babies are young.

[oneforthetoe]

Favre

[zulater]

SOMETIMES Ben makes the calls. It's not a given. Ben would like to go no huddle more often and you don't see that happening. That play was called after a timeout, I'm sure Ben came back onto the field with that call.

If that's the case ( can't remember for sure, have to check the play log) then it was most certainly Arians call.

[X-Terminator]

If that's the case ( can't remember for sure, have to check the play log) then it was most certainly Arians call.

And you, of course, were right there on the sideline to determine that, right?

Oh nevermind. I forgot. Every bad call = Arians fault. Every good call = anyone BUT Arians' call. Don't know why I'm arguing...

How about a little credit to Karlos Dansby for sniffing the play out?

[steeldevil]

Whoever made that playcall, it was stupid. Until I hear otherwise I assume Arians made the call, you know since he is the O coordinator. If Ben made the call it was just as stupid. I am not an Arians basher, this is the first time this year I have had to call him stupid... I think.

[Texasteel]

I didn't care that much for the call either, but I thought the game itself was called pretty well. Particularly since the running game had stalled.

[X-Terminator]

Whoever made that playcall, it was stupid. Until I hear otherwise I assume Arians made the call, you know since he is the O coordinator. If Ben made the call it was just as stupid. I am not an Arians basher, this is the first time this year I have had to call him stupid... I think.

I wouldn't say anything if that were the case. But every time a bad call is made, here come the usual suspects to jump all over him. But yet, you never hear a peep out of them whenever he makes a good call or calls a good game. Not only that, they all know Ben makes the calls in the 2 minute offense. WTF does it matter if it came out of a time out? That automatically means Ben didn't make the call himself?

[Mach1]

I wouldn't say anything if that were the case. But every time a bad call is made, here come the usual suspects to jump all over him. But yet, you never hear a peep out of them whenever he makes a good call or calls a good game. Not only that, they all know Ben makes the calls in the 2 minute offense. WTF does it matter if it came out of a time out? That automatically means Ben didn't make the call himself?

And it automatically means Ben called the play himself? Look, unless you, me or someone else on this board was standing there don't know for sure. Bottom line it was bad timing for the play no matter who called it.

And no that's no bashing Arians.

[tube517]

I hate Arians but he's done pretty well this year. Can't really fault him for this game because Ben was sloppy and they had no running game today. And I've given him credit in previous posts.

As far as the reverse, they've had the play during the Cowher years even before Ben and before Arians, and it rarely works.


I wouldn't say anything if that were the case. But every time a bad call is made, here come the usual suspects to jump all over him. But yet, you never hear a peep out of them whenever he makes a good call or calls a good game. Not only that, they all know Ben makes the calls in the 2 minute offense. WTF does it matter if it came out of a time out? That automatically means Ben didn't make the call himself?

[X-Terminator]

And it automatically means Ben called the play himself? Look, unless you, me or someone else on this board was standing there don't know for sure. Bottom line it was bad timing for the play no matter who called it.

And no that's no bashing Arians.

Fair enough. Make sure you tell zulater and several others the same thing, since they automatically jumped on Arians for the call.

[steeldevil]

I wouldn't say anything if that were the case. But every time a bad call is made, here come the usual suspects to jump all over him. But yet, you never hear a peep out of them whenever he makes a good call or calls a good game. Not only that, they all know Ben makes the calls in the 2 minute offense. WTF does it matter if it came out of a time out? That automatically means Ben didn't make the call himself?

I have noticed people who bash Arians no matter what as well. I think he has done a great job so far this year. I guess the point is that that reverse was a terrible playcall no matter who called it. Whoever called it made a bad decision IMO.

[zulater]

1-10-MIA 34 (1:12) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 21-M.Moore to MIA 28 for 6 yards (32-J.Allen).

Timeout #1 by PIT at 01:03.
2-4-MIA 28 (1:03) (Shotgun) 21-M.Moore right tackle to MIA 36 for -8 yards (58-K.Dansby).

Sorry apoligists , the call was made coming out of a time out. You're hero called it, time to own up.

[X-Terminator]

1-10-MIA 34 (1:12) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 21-M.Moore to MIA 28 for 6 yards (32-J.Allen).

Timeout #1 by PIT at 01:03.
2-4-MIA 28 (1:03) (Shotgun) 21-M.Moore right tackle to MIA 36 for -8 yards (58-K.Dansby).

Sorry apoligists , the call was made coming out of a time out. You're hero called it, time to own up.

See Mach? Zulater was obviously there on the sideline and absolutely knows Arians made the call, yet nothing is said to him by anyone other than me.

And Arians is NOT my hero, so stop putting that shit on me.

[zulater]

See Mach? Zulater was obviously there on the sideline and absolutely knows Arians made the call, yet nothing is said to him by anyone other than me.

And Arians is NOT my hero, so stop putting that shit on me.

Then why carry his water? There was no audible called there, you really think they come out of a time out without a play call being given to Ben?

[Texasteel]

1-10-MIA 34 (1:12) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 21-M.Moore to MIA 28 for 6 yards (32-J.Allen).

Timeout #1 by PIT at 01:03.
2-4-MIA 28 (1:03) (Shotgun) 21-M.Moore right tackle to MIA 36 for -8 yards (58-K.Dansby).

Sorry apoligists , the call was made coming out of a time out. You're hero called it, time to own up.


A standard post. I didn't like the play very much, no matter who called it, but I think that BA is doing a good job so far. Does this make him my hero, no. Does it make me an apoligist, no. I really can't see why you can't stand anyone not thinking the same way you do.

[X-Terminator]

Then why carry his water? There was no audible called there, you really think they come out of a time out without a play call being given to Ben?

Because unlike you, I do not bash him for every single effing bad play that happens while giving him NO credit when calls work or has a good game plan. Have you given him credit for anything this year? I don't think so. Again, I wouldn't say a damn thing if those who do nothing but ride his ass gave him credit every now and then. He's done a good job so far this season.

I'm sure they talked about what to do on the sideline. But knowing that Ben calls the plays in the 2 minute offense, how do you know he didn't suggest it? It's entirely possible. But the bottom line is, as Mach said, neither of us were on the sideline, so we really don't know who called it. Just call it a bad play that didn't work, and move on, rather than predictably jumping down Arians' throat.

[cold-hard-steel]

No matter who makes the call,if the play is not executed as it is boarded up to be,and it fails,who knows? they played only well enough to win. Not pretty,or fancy,but a win none the less.Miami played thier hearts out today,much as Buffalo.What is scarey to me,is how much better we could become. By scarey,i mean for the rest of the league. We could actually dole out some thrashings.

[zulater]

Because unlike you, I do not bash him for every single effing bad play that happens while giving him NO credit when calls work or has a good game plan. Have you given him credit for anything this year? I don't think so. Again, I wouldn't say a damn thing if those who do nothing but ride his ass gave him credit every now and then. He's done a good job so far this season.

I'm sure they talked about what to do on the sideline. But knowing that Ben calls the plays in the 2 minute offense, how do you know he didn't suggest it? It's entirely possible. But the bottom line is, as Mach said, neither of us were on the sideline, so we really don't know who called it. Just call it a bad play that didn't work, and move on, rather than predictably jumping down Arians' throat.

It was a bad play this week, it was a bad play the week before, and the week before that, and that, yet somehow it keeps cropping up it's ugly head. Why in the world would anyone call it at such a critical time? Had we lost this game the potential points we lost on that possession would have haunted us into December.

[Mach1]

It was a bad play this week, it was a bad play the week before, and the week before that, and that, yet somehow it keeps cropping up it's ugly head. Why in the world would anyone call it at such a critical time? Had we lost this game the potential points we lost on that possession would have haunted us into December.

It'll probly be a bad call next week too. :chuckle:


I wouldn't say a damn thing if those who do nothing but ride his ass gave him credit every now and then. He's done a good job so far this season.

He's done OK so far, I'd give him a B-. He or who ever calls certain plays needs to get better at the situation calls. That's been my biggest gripe.

[X-Terminator]

It was a bad play this week, it was a bad play the week before, and the week before that, and that, yet somehow it keeps cropping up it's ugly head. Why in the world would anyone call it at such a critical time? Had we lost this game the potential points we lost on that possession would have haunted us into December.

I can't think of a time it's worked in all the years they've run it. And I agree - it was not the proper time for that call, not when you're at their 28 and have a shot at a FG that would have extended their lead. I was thinking that at the time.

[zulater]

I can't think of a time it's worked in all the years they've run it. And I agree - it was not the proper time for that call, not when you're at their 28 and have a shot at a FG that would have extended their lead. I was thinking that at the time.

Thank you. I'm not saying Arains has been awful this year, ( I wont say he's been good either, it's a matter of religion not saying so :wink: :chuckle: ) I just thought that play call at that particuliar time was galling!

[HometownGal]

Zu, you know damn freaking well that this was established 2 years ago. Don't give me that crap.

Arians bashers are worse, because all you people do is wait for him to wait for one mistake before jumping all over him, yet NEVER give him credit for a damn thing.

:applaudit: :applaudit: :applaudit:

Aint that the damned truth? The man did what he was asked to do with regard to the running game AND makes good playcalls 99% of the time thus far this season and NEVER gets any credit for it. It's absolutely sickening.

I thought everyone was well aware that Ben makes all of the calls in the 2 minute drill. :noidea:

[HometownGal]

1-10-MIA 34 (1:12) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 21-M.Moore to MIA 28 for 6 yards (32-J.Allen).

Timeout #1 by PIT at 01:03.
2-4-MIA 28 (1:03) (Shotgun) 21-M.Moore right tackle to MIA 36 for -8 yards (58-K.Dansby).

Sorry apoligists , the call was made coming out of a time out. You're hero called it, time to own up.

Get that resume in there Zu. :heh:

Ben normally calls the plays in the 2 minute'r. As MACH said - unless you were on that sideline and know without a doubt that the call was made by Arians, this argument and thread are MOOT and a waste of bandwidth. Period.

P.S. No - I'm not related to BA. :lol:

[zulater]

:applaudit: :applaudit: :applaudit:

Aint that the damned truth? The man did what he was asked to do with regard to the running game AND makes good playcalls 99% of the time thus far this season and NEVER gets any credit for it. It's absolutely sickening.

I thought everyone was well aware that Ben makes all of the calls in the 2 minute drill. :noidea:

They were coming out of a time out on the play in question. No audible was called at the LOS. It's highly unlikely that they didn't send Ben in with the play call coming out of the time out.

Hey I get it, he's done some things right. But just as an offensive linemen can block his guy effectively 15 straight plays, but on the 16th play his man comes in free and causes a game changing turnover or sack, that's the play that's going to be noticed. That play call cost us a critical possession, it was a stupid and unneccessary call. If I never see the wr reverse again it will be too soon.

[Count Steeler]

Clock management at the end of the 1st half was also puzzling. We had 2 time outs and at least 2 downs to try and get into field goal range.

The whole Steeler team did not look "ON" today. The defense started great. The offense didn't. The offense had it's moments later on. The defense was getting gassed. Sanders had a rough start but was one tackle away from taking it to the house on a later kick return.

Not our best game. Not our prettiest game. However, we won.:rockon::tt03:

[Chidi29]

Not his call, folks. Ben calls the plays in the 2 minute offense - this has been well-established already.

I agree with you most things Arians, but that isn't always the case.

Arians called the offense on the game-winning drive against Green Bay last year.

[Chidi29]

I do find it funny that the anti-Arians crowd always whines that he's "too predictable" and that they'd love to see trick plays like Whiz used to do.

And when we do use it, it gets bashed.

The reverse has actually worked a bit last season.

And like it has been said, why not fault the execution as well. How can Pouncey or Chris, whoever was supposed to pick him up, let Dansby came flying through up the gut. That's the last guy in the last spot you want coming through free.

[Devilsdancefloor]

i really just wanna know how the hell people know who calls what plays? Do i need a special TV that shows the person calling the plays light up when they call them? The reverse play sucks we can all agree on that, but unless you are sure why point fingers at BA or even Ben unless you have said TV and if you do here can i get it. I also understand it was coming off a TO, but who says they didnt talk it over nd ben said HEY coach i think that reverse will work here? As far as i know ben does have some input on the plays. Good lord we won the game BE HAPPY. Hines left plays on the field ben did the oline didnt block like the have in past few games. BUT WE WON!

[Steeldude]

no way of knowing who called the play for sure, but regardless it was a stupid call.

[Galax Steeler]

To make that play work you have to have blocking and we did not have it Dansby was on it form the get go.

[Chidi29]

i really just wanna know how the hell people know who calls what plays? Do i need a special TV that shows the person calling the plays light up when they call them? The reverse play sucks we can all agree on that, but unless you are sure why point fingers at BA or even Ben unless you have said TV and if you do here can i get it. I also understand it was coming off a TO, but who says they didnt talk it over nd ben said HEY coach i think that reverse will work here? As far as i know ben does have some input on the plays. Good lord we won the game BE HAPPY. Hines left plays on the field ben did the oline didnt block like the have in past few games. BUT WE WON!

For the record, Ben said it was Arians call against Green Bay last year. I'm not speculating on that one.

[zulater]

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/10/what-about-steelers-should-they-have.html


The numbers suggest the Steelers would have had a slightly better chance to win the game if they had gone for the TD instead of kicking the fg at the end of the game.:noidea: Not complaining mind you, I'm happy with the end result, but I remember thinking at the time that I would rather have gone for the td.

[Chidi29]

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/10/what-about-steelers-should-they-have.html


The numbers suggest the Steelers would have had a slightly better chance to win the game if they had gone for the TD instead of kicking the fg at the end of the game.:noidea: Not complaining mind you, I'm happy with the end result, but I remember thinking at the time that I would rather have gone for the td.

I don't knw if you're implying it or not but the decision doesn't fall on Arians. That would fall on Tomlin.

[zulater]

I don't knw if you're implying it or not but the decision doesn't fall on Arians. That would fall on Tomlin.

Nope, just wasn't going to start a new thread over it, so I fit it in here.

[HometownGal]

If the Steelers hadn't taken the sure 3 (chip shot FG by Skippy) and the Fins stopped them on 4th and 1, there's a good chance the Fins would have come away with the W. I agree 100% with the decision to go for the FG and the sure points.

[zulater]

If the Steelers hadn't taken the sure 3 (chip shot FG by Skippy) and the Fins stopped them on 4th and 1, there's a good chance the Fins would have come away with the W. I agree 100% with the decision to go for the FG and the sure points.



There's a good chance we would have won if we would have gone for the TD too. In fact the odds would have been slightly better for the win if we had gone for it.

Not saying Tomlin did the wrong thing, I respect that his instinct turned out right. But at the time I would have preffered he try to punch it in and take a 5 point lead.

[Craic]

Sigh. It was one play out of an entire game of plays. If it happened on first down, then it would have been called a foolish play because we now only have two downs to make up the yards. If it happened on third down it would have been called foolish because we needed to run straight (or pass, depending on the opinion de jour).

If it WAS a run play that got stopped for a loss, people would be crying for a screen, or something to slow down the rush...if it was a pass play, people would be screaming for a run.

My point? MMQB is fun, but when put out there as "fact" that everyone should have known, instead of hindsight... well.

Personally, I think BA has done some great things with our pass game that never really existed before he came. I think BA has some glaring weaknesses that are easily exploited. The problem is, neither I, nor anyone else here, could do any better, IMO.

EDIT: Seems the thread has moved on since I started this post (a few hours ago-- a couple things came up). Sorry if it is restarting something that just finished....

[X-Terminator]

There's a good chance we would have won if we would have gone for the TD too. In fact the odds would have been slightly better for the win if we had gone for it.

Not saying Tomlin did the wrong thing, I respect that his instinct turned out right. But at the time I would have preffered he try to punch it in and take a 5 point lead.

They're on the road with a chance to win...you take the sure points. I have no problem with the decision.

[86WARD]

They're on the road with a chance to win...you take the sure points. I have no problem with the decision.

QFT!!

[zulater]

They're on the road with a chance to win...you take the sure points. I have no problem with the decision.

It worked out, for which I'm glad,, and I understand Tomlin's logic, and I'm not kiling him for his decision. But the way our defense was playing I wasn't real confident that our defense would be able to preserve a 1 point lead projecting out to normal field posistion after a kickoff with the kind of time that was left on the clock. There's no more helpless feeling in sports than watching a team line up for a potential game winning chip shot field goal with an almost expired clock. Seen that scenario play out too many times lately and I was afraid that's what we were looking at again.

[Wallace108]

There's no more helpless feeling in sports than watching a team line up for a potential game winning chip shot field goal with an almost expired clock. Seen that scenario play out too many times lately and I was afraid that's what we were looking at again.

I agree!
Although I can't blame them for kicking the field goal, I think I would have went for the touchdown. If they didn't get it, Miami gets the ball inside their own 5. There's 2 1/2 minutes left in the game. And we have 3 timeouts left, plus the 2-minute warning.

If we had only 1 timeout left, then I think it's a no-brainer to kick the field goal.

[Craic]

I agree!
Although I can't blame them for kicking the field goal, I think I would have went for the touchdown. If they didn't get it, Miami gets the ball inside their own 5. There's 2 1/2 minutes left in the game. And we have 3 timeouts left, plus the 2-minute warning.

If we had only 1 timeout left, then I think it's a no-brainer to kick the field goal.

Problem is, our defense in the last 5 minutes of games have proven to be quite horrid. Do you take the chance of letting a team drive on you in the weakest time period of the game for your defense, putting up 3 or even 7 points with a minute or so left for your offense to have to work in? Especially with Ben just playing his second game back?

Usually, I am one of those that say go for it, and then pin them back at the 1 if you don't get it. However, this time, I have go with the call.

[X-Terminator]

It worked out, for which I'm glad,, and I understand Tomlin's logic, and I'm not kiling him for his decision. But the way our defense was playing I wasn't real confident that our defense would be able to preserve a 1 point lead projecting out to normal field posistion after a kickoff with the kind of time that was left on the clock. There's no more helpless feeling in sports than watching a team line up for a potential game winning chip shot field goal with an almost expired clock. Seen that scenario play out too many times lately and I was afraid that's what we were looking at again.

Again, they were on the road with a chance to win. You take the points, period. If they don't make it, yes, they're backed up on the 1, but all they need is one first down, and the game is over. If you couldn't trust them to hold the lead, how could you trust them to get the ball back with enough time to win the game? Tomlin made the right call, and just about every other coach would do the same thing in that scenario.

[HometownGal]

It all worked out in the end - the Steelers won so why are we even discussing this? :doh:

[zulater]

It all worked out in the end - the Steelers won so why are we even discussing this? :doh:

Because it's a message board, and we discuss Steeelers football on it.

[zulater]

Again, they were on the road with a chance to win. You take the points, period. If they don't make it, yes, they're backed up on the 1, but all they need is one first down, and the game is over. If you couldn't trust them to hold the lead, how could you trust them to get the ball back with enough time to win the game? Tomlin made the right call, and just about every other coach would do the same thing in that scenario.

Actually it would have taken 2 first downs to adequetly kill the clock to secure the win. Operating inside your own 2 yard line makes that first first down that much harder as well. .

[cold-hard-steel]

Because it's a message board, and we discuss Steeelers football on it.

Actually we are discussing it cause you started the thread.

[cold-hard-steel]

All i know is no matter how things{could} have turned out,i know how they {did} turn out. No matter what,it was a costly win for us in terms of injuries. I try to let things go from the past,and concentrate on the road ahead. I think our boys will do the same. They have some holes to plug,and i wish them the best of luck in doing that.
GO STEELERS!!!!!!!!!!

[HometownGal]

Because it's a message board, and we discuss Steeelers football on it.

Gee - ya think?

However, considering the Steelers just won a huge game on the road against an AFC opponent, I just don't see the purpose of B & M'ing about every little minute thing. :doh: I would much rather focus on the positives of the game and look ahead to the Saints - another tough road opponent.

Besides - negativity isn't good for your blood pressure. :heh:

[Texasteel]

There's a good chance we would have won if we would have gone for the TD too. In fact the odds would have been slightly better for the win if we had gone for it.

Not saying Tomlin did the wrong thing, I respect that his instinct turned out right. But at the time I would have preffered he try to punch it in and take a 5 point lead.

And if we didn't get in, then they get a couple of 1st downs, and everyone, not just some on this board would be talking about what idiots our coaching staff is. You take the points and go ahead, particularly that late in the game. I don't think that would be just my opinion either.

[stlrtruck]

Actually I kind of like the call for the simple reason that the dolphins defense was playing aggressive and showing a lot of instant snap read flow, meaning if the DE would have been blocked 2 seconds longer, that play is gone. The defense had already committed to the run going right.

[vasteeler]

.....and if it worked we would all be praising them

[cold-hard-steel]

Slice it,dice it,cut it, chop it,sandwich it,mince it,grind it up,grate it any way you like. We have a fancy W in the win loss section of every newspaper across the nation. Is it possible to give the win back? It would shut a lot of people up. I could still live with 4-2. It would not change the fact that we can't get aaron back.

[Wallace108]

Problem is, our defense in the last 5 minutes of games have proven to be quite horrid. Do you take the chance of letting a team drive on you in the weakest time period of the game for your defense, putting up 3 or even 7 points with a minute or so left for your offense to have to work in? Especially with Ben just playing his second game back?

Usually, I am one of those that say go for it, and then pin them back at the 1 if you don't get it. However, this time, I have go with the call.

If a field goal would have put us up by 3 and they needed a touchdown to beat us, then yeah, I say kick the field goal.

And yeah, our defense has squandered leads in the fourth quarter. But having them pinned on their 1 or 2 yard line, I like our defense's odds.



It all worked out in the end - the Steelers won so why are we even discussing this? :doh:

Because we're Steelers fans, and we're NEVER happy. :heh:
And how much fun would it be if we sat around agreeing with each other all the time. :wink02:

[zulater]

Actually we are discussing it cause you started the thread.

If there was nothing to discuss the thread would have died long ago.

[zulater]

Gee - ya think?

However, considering the Steelers just won a huge game on the road against an AFC opponent, I just don't see the purpose of B & M'ing about every little minute thing. :doh: I would much rather focus on the positives of the game and look ahead to the Saints - another tough road opponent.

Besides - negativity isn't good for your blood pressure. :heh:

First off I'm not bitching or moaning, I've simply made a few observations and offered commentary. Second, I'm glad they won the game, but I still think with Pouncey 1 foot to go is going to be converted way more often than not. Third, if you want to talk positive or look ahead there's plenty of threads other than this to do it on.

Hell fact of the matter is this thread would already be dead if people would stop attacking those of us who have a contrary view. I've already spoken my peace, now all I'm doing is defending the logic of my opinion and my right to express it.

[zulater]

Slice it,dice it,cut it, chop it,sandwich it,mince it,grind it up,grate it any way you like. We have a fancy W in the win loss section of every newspaper across the nation. Is it possible to give the win back? It would shut a lot of people up. I could still live with 4-2. It would not change the fact that we can't get aaron back.

You're confusing the topic now. Nowhere have I claimed the Steelers have anything to apoligize for in regard to the win. Dolphin players, coaches, or fans looking to place blame for the loss on the refs are proving that they are in fact a bunch of losers imo.

Turn the equation around, you give me the Steelers with the ball and over 2 minutes on the clock, trailing by a single point and decent starting field position and I'm expecting to win that game every single time.

That in fact is why I wanted the Steelers to go for the TD on 4th down at the 1 foot line. Because that's just too easy a lead to overcome and chances are good the go ahead field goal will occur with inadequete time left to reciprocate.

[Wallace108]

That in fact is why I wanted the Steelers to go for the TD on 4th down at the 1 foot line. Because that's just too easy a lead to overcome and chances are good the go ahead field goal will occur with inadequete time to reciprocate.

Here's a question I have. Do they make the same decision if we had been playing the Colts? I think they would have. Do you really wanna give Manning the ball with 2 1/2 minutes left needing only a field goal to beat you? The problem I have is that it seems we play aggressively all game, and then get conservative in the fourth quarter, both offensively and defensively. The reason why I think it's worthy of discussion is because the conservative attitude late has bit us in the ass before, and it's going to do so again. If you have a team against the ropes, go for the knockout.

[zulater]

Here's a question I have. Do they make the same decision if we had been playing the Colts? I think they would have. Do you really wanna give Manning the ball with 2 1/2 minutes left needing only a field goal to beat you? The problem I have is that it seems we play aggressively all game, and then get conservative in the fourth quarter, both offensively and defensively. The reason why I think it's worthy of discussion is because the conservative attitude late has bit us in the ass before, and it's going to do so again. If you have a team against the ropes, go for the knockout.

:applaudit:

[Texasteel]

First off I'm not bitching or moaning, I've simply made a few observations and offered commentary. Second, I'm glad they won the game, but I still think with Pouncey 1 foot to go is going to be converted way more often than not. Third, if you want to talk positive or look ahead there's plenty of threads other than this to do it on.

Hell fact of the matter is this thread would already be dead if people would stop attacking those of us who have a contrary view. I've already spoken my peace, now all I'm doing is defending the logic of my opinion and my right to express it.

I'm not sure not agreeing with you constitutes attacking you, that wasn't my intention anyway.

I really don't see why anyone should go find another thread to state their opinion.

[Texasteel]

Here's a question I have. Do they make the same decision if we had been playing the Colts? I think they would have. Do you really wanna give Manning the ball with 2 1/2 minutes left needing only a field goal to beat you? The problem I have is that it seems we play aggressively all game, and then get conservative in the fourth quarter, both offensively and defensively. The reason why I think it's worthy of discussion is because the conservative attitude late has bit us in the ass before, and it's going to do so again. If you have a team against the ropes, go for the knockout.

Thing is, we weren't playing the Colts. Thats a decision that the staff didn't have to make.

I don't think that taking the lead with a little over 2 minutes to play is playing defensively. I don't know what the odds are, but I think the chances of us kicking the field goal are much better that getting the TD on 4th down. The staff decided to kick the field and put the game in the hands of the D. I think it was the right decision, and as it turned out it probably was.

[zulater]

Thing is, we weren't playing the Colts. Thats a decision that the staff didn't have to make.

I don't think that taking the lead with a little over 2 minutes to play is playing defensively. I don't know what the odds are, but I think the chances of us kicking the field goal are much better that getting the TD on 4th down. The staff decided to kick the field and put the game in the hands of the D. I think it was the right decision, and as it turned out it probably was.

I understand we weren't playing Peyton Manning, but let's not forget this defense has made some fairly nondescript qb's look like Peyton in the last couple seasons late in the game. When your recent history has you giving up game winning drives to Matt Cassell, Bruce Gradowski, and Jay Cutler how can you assume your defense is capable of protecting a 1 point lead on the road? Hell we nearly blew a much bigger lead than that to the Dolphins 3rd string qb in the season ender last year.

[Wallace108]

Thing is, we weren't playing the Colts. Thats a decision that the staff didn't have to make.

I don't think that taking the lead with a little over 2 minutes to play is playing defensively. I don't know what the odds are, but I think the chances of us kicking the field goal are much better that getting the TD on 4th down. The staff decided to kick the field and put the game in the hands of the D. I think it was the right decision, and as it turned out it probably was.

I hate to sound like I'm complaining when we won, but I'm not talking about just this one call in this one game. We have a trend of taking our foot off the gas pedal. I think that's why we lost so many fourth-quarter leads last season and why we almost let the Titans come back on us this year, even though we absolutely dominated them the entire game.

The trend is that we're playing not to lose instead of playing to win. Sure, the conservative mentality worked against the Dolphins, but it didn't work against the Ravens. I think back to the playoff game against Jacksonville a few years ago. We had the lead, and we call a very conservative QB run on third down instead of trying to get the first and run out the clock. What happened? The Jaguars got the ball back, scored, and won the game.

[zulater]

I'm not sure not agreeing with you constitutes attacking you, that wasn't my intention anyway.

I really don't see why anyone should go find another thread to state their opinion.

If you want to discuss the views expressed in this thread then please do post on this thread. But if you come in with a dismissive- this topic stinks approach, then why bother posting on it at all?

[Texasteel]

I understand we weren't playing Peyton Manning, but let's not forget this defense has made some fairly nondescript qb's look like Peyton in the last couple seasons late in the game. When your recent history has you giving up game winning drives to Matt Cassell, Bruce Gradowski, and Jay Cutler how can you assume your defense is capable of protecting a 1 point lead on the road? Hell we nearly blew a much bigger lead than that to the Dolphins 3rd string qb in the season ender last year.

That was last year, and this is this year. Our defense has been playing much better to this point anyway. I can understand what your are saying and it does have merit, I just think that they made the right decision. I'll give you this though, it sure is nice to have center that will make you think about it, isn't it.

[Texasteel]

If you want to discuss the views expressed in this thread then please do post on this thread. But if you come in with a dismissive- this topic stinks approach, then why bother posting on it at all?

Because they have the right to post in this thread and do not need anyone permission to do so.

[Wallace108]

I'll give you this though, it sure is nice to have center that will make you think about it, isn't it.

Amen to that!!

[zulater]

Because they have the right to post in this thread and do not need anyone permission to do so.

I'm not saying they do. I just hate dismissive unsupported shut down arguments being used against what I believe to be rationale views. "We won so shut up idiot" ( not quoting anyone specifically, just pointing out a mindset) or "why the hell are we still talking about this, 'cause ya know, like we won", tend to wear on me.;)

[SteelMember]

I will say this about the play(s)... I don't have a problem with the play call, but I, and possibly our opposition can see a trend with the play call. In the past, we used to feel we needed to keep these trick plays undercover, and spring it on the opponent at an appropriate time. Now, it seems that OC's show their hand to have their opponents prepare for the play, whether they had plans of running it or not. As a fan, I can remember plenty of times saying "what the hell was that" even for a play that was successful, just because I had never seen it before. That inside shovel pass to Hines on a goal line drive comes to mind. The ARE play in the super bowl is another.

He seems to do the some things with other play calls as well. That bubble screen that he ran to Hines twice the last game was crap when he tried to run it to the other side to Wallace. There is definitely a fine line between going to the well too many times, and calling a play multiple times daring your opponent to stop it... if it's being effective. The reverse, however, has not been effective, imo.

[Texasteel]

I'm not saying they do. I just hate dismissive unsupported shut down arguments being used against what I believe to be rationale views. "We won so shut up idiot" ( not quoting anyone specifically, just pointing out a mindset) or "why the hell are we still talking about this, 'cause ya know, like we won", tend to wear on me.;)

If you have the right to post as you want, then the next person has that same right. You probably post some things that wear others out. I know I've posted a bunch that you didn't like.

Sorry guys, to get back on topic. I think for the most part the play calling has been pretty good so far. We are not going to agree with all the play or all the decisions that the coaches make. Just keep in mind that in the morning, we go back to our normal jobs, in the morning they are still living with the decisions they made the day before. If our actual job was to make that decision, its hard to say what we would really do.

[zulater]

If you have the right to post as you want, then the next person has that same right. You probably post some things that wear others out. I know I've posted a bunch that you didn't like.

Sorry guys, to get back on topic. I think for the most part the play calling has been pretty good so far. We are not going to agree with all the play or all the decisions that the coaches make. Just keep in mind that in the morning, we go back to our normal jobs, in the morning they are still living with the decisions they made the day before. If our actual job was to make that decision, its hard to say what we would really do.

I guess the point is Tex, if I find the premise of a thread to be idiotic I just don't bother posting on it. There's plenty of threads to go around for whatever fits your taste.

As to this topic. Even though I'm being accused otherwise, since this season began other than one specific play call which I noted in this thread I haven't said anything against Arians. Generally speaking I think he's done a good job. But imo that reverse, particuarly at that time was a brutally bad playcall and cost us a good scoring chance right at the end of the half. And fair or not, as with being a baseball umpire, an offensive coordinater doesn't get noticed for the calls he gets right, it's the one that he blows that will always bring notice to him.

Good example. I think Chan Gailey did a good job in his one season as OC for the Steelers ( 97) . Korkie had a career year under Chan's tuteledge. ( 21 td passes 11 running). Yet what do most Steeler fans remember him for, but the brutal play action pass where Korkie threw an interception into triple coverage. This at a time the Steelers were looking to improve on a 4 point lead with good field position and the Bus just gashing away at will against the Broncos defense.

One bad play can undo a lot of good.

[cold-hard-steel]

Just what are you getting to? Make your point dude.SF likes you and so do i.
I only speak my mind on theses threads.So do you.what is wrong with that? Make something happen or you are gonna lose it. Ain't nobody on Gods green earth ever gonna agree on everything that we feel or think.

[zulater]

Just what are you getting to? Make your point dude.SF likes you and so do i.
I only speak my mind on theses threads.So do you.what is wrong with that? Make something happen or you are gonna lose it. Ain't nobody on Gods green earth ever gonna agree on everything that we feel or think.

Nothing's wrong with it. It's a Steelers message board and we're discussing Steelers football. That's what it's all about

[Texasteel]

I'll tell you what I remember Chan for, getting stabbed in the back by the cowboys owner.

[zulater]

I'll tell you what I remember Chan for, getting stabbed in the back by the cowboys owner.

lol, that too.

[HollywoodSteel]

I tend to agree with Zu on a couple of points here. As most of us are saying, the reverse call sucked, but while I admit that I can't know for sure, I'm going to assume that BA signed off on it seeing as it came off a time out, regardless of who's initial idea it was. Again I might be wrong, but I assume that one of the things that tend to come up during time outs is what the next play is going to be, and I also assume that the offensive coordinator isn't playing Farmville on his iPad while that discussion is going on.

I also admit, that like Zu, I focus on BA more when he screws up than when he's doing a good job. I happen to think that he's avery good play designer and a below average situational playcaller. However I've never been "fire BA" guy. I think that would be a bad idea, mostly because I think that Ben is very comfortable with him and his plays and bringing in a new guy with a new playbook has a lot more potential downside than upside.

I'm with Zu on the, "shut up, we won so don't criticize anything" posts, but before you jump down my throat as well (although I fully acknowledge your right to do so, and my right to do so back, and your right to keep telling me about your rights... :usa2:) understand that these posts really don't bother me (I can ignore them in much the same way that Zu suggests these posters ignore threads they don't like) but they do illustrate how people tend to view these boards very differently. Some view it as a means to pat ourselves on the back when we do well and collectively worry when things don't (which is a perfectly fine), while others tend to view it as place to discuss and debate all aspects of Steelers football, down to minutia that might not seem important to some. That's why I think posts that only dismiss the topic without contributing anything to the discussion are for the most part unhelpful.

In regards to the choice to kick the field goal instead of going for the touchdown, that one is tough but I tend to lean on the side of the field goal. That said, no matter what we did there I was still going to be scared shitless. The Ravens managed to score a TD on us with less than a minute left with no time outs, and that was with Smith, Keisel and Woodley back there. Without them... lets just say I was quite pleased with our defense's ability to not let us down twice like that. Maybe it's because our defensive coordinator has an ability to learn from his mistakes that our offensive coordinator lacks. Or maybe not. ;)

The play call that actually had me screaming was the one that ended up with all the controversy. I hated the shotgun on 3rd and goal from like the 2 or 3. I saw exactly what it was going to be... a quarterback draw. And while I know that there's a decent shot at success here, bad things tend to happen with Ben diving for the goal line, the scariest possibility is that he gets hurt. I think that you have to assume that there's a small likelihood of him just walking in to endzone. He's probably going to take a hit, the kind where they're trying to jar the ball loose, possibly to his throwing arm. That's exactly what happened. We just got him back and the last thing I want to do is risk losing him when there are other viable playcalls to be made there.

[Craic]

I understand we weren't playing Peyton Manning, but let's not forget this defense has made some fairly nondescript qb's look like Peyton in the last couple seasons late in the game. When your recent history has you giving up game winning drives to Matt Cassell, Bruce Gradowski, and Jay Cutler how can you assume your defense is capable of protecting a 1 point lead on the road? Hell we nearly blew a much bigger lead than that to the Dolphins 3rd string qb in the season ender last year.

Funny, and interesting... we use the same facts.. and the same logic to come to two different conclusions. Because of the facts you mention, I would rather have as many points on the board as possible. That way, we at least have the lead. Even a TD for Miami won't put the game out of reach for us (unless they take ALL 2 1/2 minutes to score). I guess at this point, I trust my offense to take the field with a minute to minute and a half left, and put up 3, 7, maybe 8 points, more than I trust our defense to take the field and stop a field goal or TD in the last 5 minutes.

I guess that is the question, would you rather have the game in the hands of this offense, or this defense, with 1-2 minutes left in the game. Seems to me, the decision made was for the offense.

[Texasteel]

I'm with Zu on the, "shut up, we won so don't criticize anything" posts, but before you jump down my throat as well .

Would you care to point out where I jumped down anyones throat. I only pointed out that the posters that stated they thought we should put that one play aside and move on had valid point, and a right to that point.

[X-Terminator]

I'm not saying they do. I just hate dismissive unsupported shut down arguments being used against what I believe to be rationale views. "We won so shut up idiot" ( not quoting anyone specifically, just pointing out a mindset) or "why the hell are we still talking about this, 'cause ya know, like we won", tend to wear on me.;)

No, the point is that it's nitpicking, because as Wallace said, Steelers fans are never happy. Tomlin did what any other coach would do in that situation on the road, and they won the game. The end.

[cold-hard-steel]

No, the point is that it's nitpicking, because as Wallace said, Steelers fans are never happy. Tomlin did what any other coach would do in that situation on the road, and they won the game. The end.

We are all happy when we see our way clear to the Superbowl. In between is where the problems lie.

[zulater]

No, the point is that it's nitpicking, because as Wallace said, Steelers fans are never happy. Tomlin did what any other coach would do in that situation on the road, and they won the game. The end.

That's presuming a lot. I think a lot of coaches would would try to get the TD there, failing that give possession to your opponent at the one foot line with the thought of forcing a punt from a short end zone drop.

[X-Terminator]

That's presuming a lot. I think a lot of coaches would would try to get the TD there, failing that give possession to your opponent at the one foot line with the thought of forcing a punt from a short end zone drop.

And give the home team, in front of their home crowd, momentum from a goal-line stand? I think not. That's why you take the points and get the lead, and take your chances with the defense coming up with a stop or a turnover.

[zulater]

So that's why we beat the Ravens I guess? That goal line stand got us so fired up that we proceeded to gain nothing on 3 plays from the shadow of our goal post.

[HollywoodSteel]

Would you care to point out where I jumped down anyones throat. I only pointed out that the posters that stated they thought we should put that one play aside and move on had valid point, and a right to that point.

I wasn't targeting you specifically or trying to imply that you jumped down anyone's throat. I was trying to lightheartedly dodge the infinite loop of pointing out everyone's right to say something, and respond to something, and respond back, and so on. And of course you have the prerogative to say that everyone else should put aside whatever you personally (again I don't really mean you specifically here. I mean the general "you") no longer have any interest in discussing, but that type of statement rarely achieves the result intended, unless the intended result is simply to annoy the people who wish to go on discussing the topic.

[HollywoodSteel]

No, the point is that it's nitpicking, because as Wallace said, Steelers fans are never happy. Tomlin did what any other coach would do in that situation on the road, and they won the game. The end.

Perhaps you are right and it is nitpicking. But that's the fun of this board for many people. It's a forum to discuss every little aspect of every game, good or bad, with other people interested in discussing it. And I certainly understand that it can come off as being unhappy, but I don't think that's really the case for most of us (though I shouldn't presume to speak for others).

While I'm sure Mike Tomlin is happy with the victory, he too will dissect many aspects of the game that he feels need to be improved. Some fans have fun doing the exact same thing even though it's not our jobs and we by no means have the qualifications to do it professionally.

[X-Terminator]

So that's why we beat the Ravens I guess? That goal line stand got us so fired up that we proceeded to gain nothing on 3 plays from the shadow of our goal post.

I still would not take the chance in that situation and will take the points and the lead. I'm not changing my mind on that. Call it conservative, call it whatever you want...it was still the right decision, and they WON THE GAME. That is all that matters. Who the hell cares how it happened, as long as it happened?

[zulater]

I still would not take the chance in that situation and will take the points and the lead. I'm not changing my mind on that. Call it conservative, call it whatever you want...it was still the right decision, and they WON THE GAME. That is all that matters. Who the hell cares how it happened? Bottom line is they got the WIN. Anything else is just nitpicking.

I've already said I respect the decision Tomlin made. Never have I claimed it was the wrong move, or a mistake. I just think there were two ways of going about it and I would have chosen the other way for reasons already stated.

[X-Terminator]

Perhaps you are right and it is nitpicking. But that's the fun of this board for many people. It's a forum to discuss every little aspect of every game, good or bad, with other people interested in discussing it. And I certainly understand that it can come off as being unhappy, but I don't think that's really the case for most of us (though I shouldn't presume to speak for others).

While I'm sure Mike Tomlin is happy with the victory, he too will dissect many aspects of the game that he feels need to be improved. Some fans have fun doing the exact same thing even though it's not our jobs and we by no means have the qualifications to do it professionally.

That's fine - we do not and will not suppress anyone's right to discuss a topic of their choosing, unless of course it violates the COC. What torques me off is that there is an assumption that if someone says people should move on and ask why something this minute is being discussed, it's automatically thought of as "shutting down the discussion." It's fucking bullshit. If we really wanted to shut down discussion, we'd just close the thread. We haven't done it, and it's still being discussed, is it not? It's just that in the grand scheme of things, this doesn't matter, because they WON, and we should be happy with that.

[cold-hard-steel]

Perhaps you are right and it is nitpicking. But that's the fun of this board for many people. It's a forum to discuss every little aspect of every game, good or bad, with other people interested in discussing it. And I certainly understand that it can come off as being unhappy, but I don't think that's really the case for most of us (though I shouldn't presume to speak for others).

While I'm sure Mike Tomlin is happy with the victory, he too will dissect many aspects of the game that he feels need to be improved. Some fans have fun doing the exact same thing even though it's not our jobs and we by no means have the qualifications to do it professionally.

I can see hollywood has taught you well. LOL What well scripted quotes,and replys you come up with. Nice goin man!

[Texasteel]

I wasn't targeting you specifically or trying to imply that you jumped down anyone's throat. I was trying to lightheartedly dodge the infinite loop of pointing out everyone's right to say something, and respond to something, and respond back, and so on. And of course you have the prerogative to say that everyone else should put aside whatever you personally (again I don't really mean you specifically here. I mean the general "you") no longer have any interest in discussing, but that type of statement rarely achieves the result intended, unless the intended result is simply to annoy the people who wish to go on discussing the topic.


It was obvious who Zu was discussing this with at this point. You may want to keep that in mind next time you decide to use the work "you". Unless your intended result is to simply annoy

[HollywoodSteel]

I can see hollywood has taught you well. LOL What well scripted quotes,and replys you come up with. Nice goin man!

Funny you should say that. I actually am a working writer in Hollywood... though you really wouldn't know from the creative grammar and punctuation I use around here.

[HollywoodSteel]

It was obvious who Zu was discussing this with at this point. You may want to keep that in mind next time you decide to use the work "you". Unless your intended result is to simply annoy

Obvious to some perhaps, but never accuse me of recognizing the obvious. :huh:

Your point is well taken though. I didn't mean to annoy. I don't think anything you said was without merit.

[HollywoodSteel]

That's fine - we do not and will not suppress anyone's right to discuss a topic of their choosing, unless of course it violates the COC. What torques me off is that there is an assumption that if someone says people should move on and ask why something this minute is being discussed, it's automatically thought of as "shutting down the discussion." It's fucking bullshit. If we really wanted to shut down discussion, we'd just close the thread. We haven't done it, and it's still being discussed, is it not? It's just that in the grand scheme of things, this doesn't matter, because they WON, and we should be happy with that.


Well, I don't want to speak for Zu... but I'm going to anyway. I doubt he thought there was any threat of someone really wanting to shut down the discussion, but I think I get where his annoyance comes from. He's discussing something that's interesting to him, giving thought out explanations to support his positions, and other people are discussing it back, both agreeing and disagreeing. When someone tells him that he should move on from a topic because it doesn't matter, I can get where he might see that as belittling the fact that he is clearly still interested in discussing it.

You are of course right that in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter because we won. And in the grander scheme of things it probably doesn't even matter that we won this particular game. And in the grander scheme of things it probably doesn't even matter that the game of football exists.;) But we all have different subjective points of view when it comes to the level of minutia about the game we are interested in talking about.

But I also get why you find it odd that people want to dissect and be critical of a win, especially an aspect of a win that turned out to work.

Incidentally, I happen to agree with you. Kicking the field goal was the way I would have gone too.

[X-Terminator]

Well, I don't want to speak for Zu... but I'm going to anyway. I doubt he thought there was any threat of someone really wanting to shut down the discussion, but I think I get where his annoyance comes from. He's discussing something that's interesting to him, giving thought out explanations to support his positions, and other people are discussing it back, both agreeing and disagreeing. When someone tells him that he should move on from a topic because it doesn't matter, I can get where he might see that as belittling the fact that he is clearly still interested in discussing it.

You are of course right that in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter because we won. And in the grander scheme of things it probably doesn't even matter that we won this particular game. And in the grander scheme of things it probably doesn't even matter that the game of football exists.;) But we all have different subjective points of view when it comes to the level of minutia about the game we are interested in talking about.

But I also get why you find it odd that people want to dissect and be critical of a win, especially an aspect of a win that turned out to work.

Incidentally, I happen to agree with you. Kicking the field goal was the way I would have gone too.

OK, fair enough. I think the points have been made, so I'm going to be moving on from here. Thank you for your input and being civil with the disagreement. Trust me, it's very welcomed! :drink:

[SteelerSal]

:grouphug::rockon:

[HometownGal]

I feel as if I'm over at another board hearing these sorts of comments. :horror:

[cold-hard-steel]

Was becoming quite a heated discussion. Man,i was just beginning to get into it. Damn it. I will let this go too. Some people try to make you look dumb,and end up makin you look smart. Game on. Anyway , Smith is not gone for the season. That is something to be happy about.

[zulater]

I feel as if I'm over at another board hearing these sorts of comments. :horror:

Which comments? I'm not sure why this thread comes off as such a threat to anyone?

[HollywoodSteel]

:drink:

[cold-hard-steel]

I feel as if I'm over at another board hearing these sorts of comments. :horror:

Do you mean a "board hearing" ? How many "board hearings" have you been to? LOL

[cold-hard-steel]

I know you can kick my butt now. Come on HTL.

[HometownGal]

Do you mean a "board hearing" ? How many "board hearings" have you been to? LOL

I was just repeating something a member directed me to. :heh:

Word of the day = irony.

Any who how - if belaboring a moot point floats your boats, knock yourselves out I say. :drink:

[GBMelBlount]

C'mon guys.

Sometimes the "this play never works but may work because it never has before and I'm sure they won't be expecting it because it never works so I will look like a freakin genius if it works"....strategy, DOES work.

Just sayin.

[SteelerSal]

C'mon guys.

Sometimes the "this play never works but may work because it never has before and I'm sure they won't be expecting it because it never works so I will look like a freakin genius if it works"....strategy, doesn't always work.

Just sayin.

Works for me.:grin:

[cold-hard-steel]

I was just repeating something a member directed me to. :heh:

Word of the day = irony.

Any who how - if belaboring a moot point floats your boats, knock yourselves out I say. :drink:

We find the defendant not guilty!!! LOL

[Texasteel]

Just don't know why after a win, all we can talk is that play. It's almost as though we are going to complain about something no matter what.

[cold-hard-steel]

Who was the defendant anyway? Sometimes you stick to a play until you force it to work. It could lead to a dynamic play that stems from it. Improv baby. What they expect is not what they get!!!!

[zulater]

Just don't know why after a win, all we can talk is that play. It's almost as though we are going to complain about something no matter what.



That's not all I'm talking about. I'm posting on any number of topics. And I'm not complaining, I'm commenting. :chuckle:

[cold-hard-steel]

That's not all I'm talking about. I'm posting on any number of topics. And I'm not complaining, I'm commenting. :chuckle:

Cool man. Probably a Ravens fan in disguise. All hands on deck for this weeks game. Anyway,that play is in the book,and i'm sure it has variations that can come out of running it. You could have been talking about the "execution" of the play,but i don't think thats where you were pointed. I can't wait until they pull that play off so i can come back to this thread.

[zulater]

Cool man. Probably a Ravens fan in disguise. All hands on deck for this weeks game. Anyway,that play is in the book,and i'm sure it has variations that can come out of running it. You could have been talking about the "execution" of the play,but i don't think thats where you were pointed. I can't wait until they pull that play off so i can come back to this thread.

Are you fucking serious? Me a Ravens fan? Jeesus you must be as stoned as the guy in your signature.:smokin:

And I hope like hell if they call the reverse again it actually works! I just think the timing of the play call was as bad as anything.

[cold-hard-steel]

I ain't jackin ya up dude,and i don't smoke. The execution of the play is just as important,if not more ,than the timing. Do you know what they practice to achieve? You seem as though you do. Get a job with them. We could use a brilliant mind as the offensive coordinater. You the man , man.

[Psycho Ward 86]

13 pages of discussion about one failed reverse.



Speak volumes about how much we hate Arians lol.

[cold-hard-steel]

Has that play worked once all year? 2nd and 4, great field position, qb playing out of his mind and what do you do, take the ball out of Ben's hands and use a play that loses yardage every time. Moron.

This was the start of your thread sir. The play did not work sure. It will never work right? You said nothing of the play not being excuted properly,or missed assignments that may have occurred. Only that the OC sucks. You called Arians a moron. My case is closed!

[zulater]

I ain't jackin ya up dude,and i don't smoke. The execution of the play is just as important,if not more ,than the timing. Do you know what they practice to achieve? You seem as though you do. Get a job with them. We could use a brilliant mind as the offensive coordinater. You the man , man.

Timing is everything in life "dude". And I don't have to be a movie producer to know that Ishtar sucked. I don't have to be a singer to know Vannila Ice was a hack. And I don't have to draw up plays for a living to know that calling the wr reverse when and where they did was ill advised.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

13 pages of discussion about one failed reverse.



Speak volumes about how much we hate Arians lol.

Yeah, I heard he was responsible for the global economic crisis too. Maybe he can help "reverse" it???

Funny how the arians hate just brews beneath the 5-1 record.

[cold-hard-steel]

Timing is everything in life "dude". And I don't have to be a movie producer to know that Ishtar sucked. I don't have to be a singer to know Vannila Ice was a hack. And I don't have to draw up plays for a living to know that calling the wr reverse when and where they did was ill advised.

Ok ZULATER, ZULATE on brother.

[zulater]

Yeah, I heard he was responsible for the global economic crisis too. Maybe he can help "reverse" it???

Funny how the arians hate just brews beneath the 5-1 record.

I critisized one fucking play call and I "hate" the man? Talk about thin skinned. :doh:

Oh and by the way we haven't just talked Arians here. So it's a fallacy to say we've dedicated 13 pages to one play.

[zulater]

Has that play worked once all year? 2nd and 4, great field position, qb playing out of his mind and what do you do, take the ball out of Ben's hands and use a play that loses yardage every time. Moron.

This was the start of your thread sir. The play did not work sure. It will never work right? You said nothing of the play not being excuted properly,or missed assignments that may have occurred. Only that the OC sucks. You called Arians a moron. My case is closed!

So is your brain. Notice the time the thread was posted? Think emotion might have played a part? "Dude?

But regardless the play hasn't worked once this year.(yet) The Steelers were moving the ball very effeciently up to that point. The Dolphins seemed to be somewhat on their heels, a trick play, a lateral moving one at that didn't seem to be the right play call to me. Still doesn't seem to be. sorry if that pisses you off, "Dude".

I'll try to remember to rubber stamp all future Steeler play calls and any other decisions they make on or off the field in the future. would that make you happy "Dude"? :salute:

[cold-hard-steel]

So is your brain. Notice the time the thread was posted? Think emotion might have played a part? "Dude?

But regardless the play hasn't worked once this year.(yet) The Steelers were moving the ball very effeciently up to that point. The Dolphins seemed to be somewhat on their heels, a trick play, a lateral moving one at that didn't seem to be the right play call to me. Still doesn't seem to be. sorry if that pisses you off, "Dude".

I'll try to remember to rubber stamp all future Steeler play calls and any other decisions they make on or off the field in the future. would that make you happy "Dude"? :salute:

I said ZULATE on brother. I don't know what else to say.

[zulater]

I said ZULATE on brother. I don't know what else to say.

If you don't know what else to say then maybe it's best to say nothing at that point?

[cold-hard-steel]

blank,blank,blank,blank,blankety blank.

[cold-hard-steel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaJFnGGECJo

[Wallace108]

Wow, I'm sorry I missed most of this debate ... it looks like it would have been fun.
Without trying to stir the pot, let me just offer this:

One thing I've learned about Zu, both here and at SF, is he enjoys a good debate. And I'm the same way. It's no fun if we all agree on everything. Heck, half the time I don't care if I "win" or "lose," I just enjoy the back and forth of a good discussion.

I think play calling, even in a win, makes for an excellent discussion. Was the reverse a good or bad call? Should they have kicked the field goal or gone for it at the end of the game? We all have our opinions and it provided for a good debate.

So here's where I stand: If you agree that discussing play calling, even after a win, is worthy of discussion (regardless of what side you fall on), then by all means, discuss it.
If you think discussing play calling, especially after a win, is pointless and idiotic, then by all means, find another thread to participate in. There are plenty of threads here.

[cold-hard-steel]

I agree on this. Steelers rule my world. Well really i do,but without them i would be lost. Big void to fill if i lost those 53 men.

[zulater]

You got my blessing to lock this thread down at anytime now mods.:attention:

[GBMelBlount]

Yeah, I heard he was responsible for the global economic crisis too. Maybe he can help "reverse" it???



LMAO! That was punny.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I critisized one fucking play call and I "hate" the man? Talk about thin skinned. :doh:

Oh and by the way we haven't just talked Arians here. So it's a fallacy to say we've dedicated 13 pages to one play.

Sorry fella, but I didnt mean to imply that you hate the guy. Just speaking in general about the way the lynch mob can sometimes assemble quickly for this guy.

I havent been a fan of the kind of offenses he runs and his lack of emphasis on a FB and inability to run short yardage situations. I think he is creative, but like your first post...sometimes that creativity takes over and I think he forgets what is simple and what works best.

Thin skin...........not really.

[zulater]

Sorry fella, but I didnt mean to imply that you hate the guy. Just speaking in general about the way the lynch mob can sometimes assemble quickly for this guy.

I havent been a fan of the kind of offenses he runs and his lack of emphasis on a FB and inability to run short yardage situations. I think he is creative, but like your first post...sometimes that creativity takes over and I think he forgets what is simple and what works best.

Thin skin...........not really.

Sorry,:wave: someone was wearing on me at the time I made that post. :lol:

Having said that though, overall I'm ok with the job Arians is doing this year. The fact that Spaeth has improved his blockings significantly is making Bruce's 3 tight end sets look better. Also I'm happy in the way he's integrating Redman into the offense.

But I just could do without the wr reverse for awhile. :dizzy:

[cold-hard-steel]

Thats it man i'm doin it! I'm goin to your home field.

[zulater]

Thats it man i'm doin it! I'm goin to your home field.

That a threat?

[GBMelBlount]

So here's where I stand: If you agree that discussing play calling, even after a win, is worthy of discussion (regardless of what side you fall on), then by all means, discuss it.
If you think discussing play calling, especially after a win, is pointless and idiotic, then by all means, find another thread to participate in. There are plenty of threads here.

Wallace. We are friends and I agree with most everything you say.

The way I feel is if someone is irritated about the reverse (as my wife will testify that I was) feel free to start a thread about. If you think the thread is bashing Arians, then feel free to say so. If you want to question the point of the thread, great. If you want to yell and argue a bit back and forth, then great! I'm all for it. To me this is no different than arguing with your siblings or best friends over a pint of beer....but the bottom line is we are all friends here and kindred spirits in our love the Steelers and we should be careful to never lose sight of that.

Cool & Zu, I HONESTLY like both of you and see BOTH of your points and if you guys want to argue and debate that's great...but when this thread is done, there is no winner or loser, it's our opinions as steelers fans...no need to EVER make it personal or carry it beyond an isolated heated exchange between two passionate fans....

[zulater]

Wallace. We are friends and I agree with most everything you say.

The way I feel is if someone is irritated about the reverse (as my wife will testify that I was) feel free to start a thread about. If you think the thread is bashing Arians, then feel free to say so. If you want to question the point of the thread, great. If you want to yell and argue a bit back and forth, then great! I'm all for it. To me this is no different than arguing with your siblings or best friends over a pint of beer....but the bottom line is we are all friends here and kindred spirits in our love the Steelers and we should be careful to never lose sight of that.

Cool & Zu, I HONESTLY like both of you and see BOTH of your points and if you guys want to argue and debate that's great...but when this thread is done, there is no winner or loser, it's our opinions as steelers fans...no need to EVER make it personal or carry it beyond an isolated heated exchange between two passionate fans....

I agree, but "dude" seems to have other ideas. Actually I'm not sure what the hell he's talking about? :noidea:

[Craic]

Zulater...

Well, to be honest, when I read
"Bruce Arians stupid reverse tricks"

As the title to the thread, with the history that this community of posters has with that Arians, I made the assumption, and think it was a fair assumption, that it was more "Hate Arians" type stuff. Obviously you have limited yourself to the one play and have even been even handed in discussing the rest of his calls this year.

Maybe the title had something to do with the response--based on history here (and SF) ??


(http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3661-Bruce-Arians-stupid-reverse-tricks.)

[zulater]

Zulater...

Well, to be honest, when I read
"Bruce Arians stupid reverse tricks"

As the title to the thread, with the history that this community of posters has with that Arians, I made the assumption, and think it was a fair assumption, that it was more "Hate Arians" type stuff. Obviously you have limited yourself to the one play and have even been even handed in discussing the rest of his calls this year.

Maybe the title had something to do with the response--based on history here (and SF) ??


(http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3661-Bruce-Arians-stupid-reverse-tricks.)

Honestly I have no problems with any responce's directed towards me on this thread except the one that comes off as a personal threat.

[cold-hard-steel]

Honestly I have no problems with any responce's directed towards me on this thread except the one that comes off as a personal threat.

It was not a threat , i went to your home field and was rejected as a donor.
The message read "fatal failure".

[cold-hard-steel]

I'm sorry that was uncalled for. I try my best.

[cold-hard-steel]

Honestly I have no problems with any responce's directed towards me on this thread except the one that comes off as a personal threat.

So going to your home field is a threat? Ok, i guess it could be.

[GBMelBlount]

I'm sorry that was uncalled for. I try my best.

Cold, you know you can edit that first post, right?

I would just be really depressed if my "what are you listening to now" posts weren't sandwiched between 5 or 6 of yours. lol

[Wallace108]

Wallace. We are friends and I agree with most everything you say.

Most everything? What could you possibly have disagreed with? :chuckle:

[zulater]

So going to your home field is a threat? Ok, i guess it could be.

If it wasn't meant to be fair enough. Sorry I took it that way.

[HometownGal]

I'm sorry that was uncalled for. I try my best.

I think you had better edit your post before I edit your ass with my foot.

There is no reason to name-call just because your opinions differ from those of others. Attack the POST not the POSTER. Capeche?

[cold-hard-steel]

I've been through my share of threads against arians.I don't even know you brother,but i can speak my mind just as you can. Sometimes the kitchen gets hot, it depends on what your cookin up. Moo Shu duck is bound to have some fat in it. Just sayin.

[cold-hard-steel]

I think you had better edit your post before I edit your ass with my foot.

There is no reason to name-call just because your opinions differ from those of others. Attack the POST not the POSTER. Capeche?

I can,t find the name you are talking about.

[Wallace108]

Zulater...

Well, to be honest, when I read
"Bruce Arians stupid reverse tricks"

As the title to the thread, with the history that this community of posters has with that Arians, I made the assumption, and think it was a fair assumption, that it was more "Hate Arians" type stuff. Obviously you have limited yourself to the one play and have even been even handed in discussing the rest of his calls this year.

Maybe the title had something to do with the response--based on history here (and SF) ??


(http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/3661-Bruce-Arians-stupid-reverse-tricks.)

All the anti-Arians stuff at SF predates my time there, but I've been a member of boards where Arians is Public Enemy #1, and it didn't seem to be much of an issue. Why, exactly, is he untouchable? I understand we don't want 300 anti-Arians threads, but if he makes some bone-headed calls (as he often does), I'm calling him out on it. And what's wrong with dropping some hate on him? There's a lot of hate toward Kordell and Neil O'Donnell. That seems to be permissible. But we dare not utter a negative word about Arians. What am I missing? :noidea:

[zulater]

I've been through my share of threads against arians.I don't even know you brother,but i can speak my mind just as you can. Sometimes the kitchen gets hot, it depends on what your cookin up. Moo Shu duck is bound to have some fat in it. Just sayin.

Honestly i don't care. I just didn't know what to make of your one comment. Now you've told me what it wasn't meant to be I'm really not concerned what it was meant to say. Which is lucky because I've got no damn clue what you were intending to say? :noidea:

[cold-hard-steel]

I'm down. Too much talkin and not enough action. It would take too much backtrackin to find out where i stepped out of line.Even if i found it i would probably not see something wrong with it. But i do love you guys.

[fansince'76]

I understand we don't want 300 anti-Arians threads....

That's the only thing that bothered me - the redundancy. Hasn't been a problem here, but it was a problem elsewhere.

[Wallace108]

I've been through my share of threads against arians.I don't even know you brother,but i can speak my mind just as you can. Sometimes the kitchen gets hot, it depends on what your cookin up. Moo Shu duck is bound to have some fat in it. Just sayin.

C-H-S, it's not a matter of speaking your mind. It's a matter of attacking the post rather than the poster. You can disagree without being disagreeable.

[cold-hard-steel]

Damn man,now i have to issue another public appology. That freakin sucks man.

[HometownGal]

All the anti-Arians stuff at SF predates my time there, but I've been a member of boards where Arians is Public Enemy #1, and it didn't seem to be much of an issue. Why, exactly, is he untouchable? I understand we don't want 300 anti-Arians threads, but if he makes some bone-headed calls (as he often does), I'm calling him out on it. And what's wrong with dropping some hate on him? There's a lot of hate toward Kordell and Neil O'Donnell. That seems to be permissible. But we dare not utter a negative word about Arians. What am I missing? :noidea:

Let me interject here, if I may. When Gary and I were modding Shithole Forever, we were often accused of "protecting" Arians and those who support him and banning those who hated on him which was totally UNTRUE. Hell - I was even accused of being related to him for God's sake (not that I would have a problem with that if it were true as I totally respect the guy). I feel that BA is scapegoated 90% of the time because it is unconscionable for some Steelers fans to realize that the man is human, like all of us, and will make human mistakes just as every other NFL player and coach does. Last season when Lebeau's D shit the bed in SIX GAMES resulting in losses and our missing the playoffs, no one but a few of us dared to call him on it. We read every excuse in the book, Troy's out . . . Aaron's out. . . the O didn't put enough points on the board. :blah: :blah: :blah: Players make mistakes and so do coaches - it's called being human. Personally, I am all for constructive discussion as it is good for the continued health and progression of the board. What I DO have a problem with, however, is destructive discussion which is what these anti-Arians threads always turn into.

[zulater]

C-H-S, it's not a matter of speaking your mind. It's a matter of attacking the post rather than the poster. You can disagree without being disagreeable.

It's no biggie, I've been guilty of straying over the same line occasionally. My only problem was with something I thought might have been implied. Which CHS says wasn't what he was saying, so let's all leave it at that?

No hard feelings on my part. and I don't even dislike Arians.

Just hated that effing reverse at that time. :chuckle:

[cold-hard-steel]

I,m sorry Zu. I was so intense i did not even realize i may have attacked you. I did attack your post though. From every angle i could come up with. I even went to your home field. Sorry man. I'm a dick sometimes.

[Wallace108]

That's the only thing that bothered me - the redundancy. Hasn't been a problem here, but it was a problem elsewhere.

That's what I figured, FS, but I just wanted some clarification. I believe in being even-handed. If Arians makes good calls, I'm going to give him credit. And if he makes bone-headed calls, I'm going to criticize him. That's what I felt the purpose of this thread was ... to criticize a call. And I felt there was some good back-and-forth discussion on it. It really wasn't an anti-Arians thread (hating for the sake of hating).

[zulater]

I,m sorry Zu. I was so intense i did not even realize i may have attacked you. I did attack your post though. From every angle i could come up with. I even went to your home field. Sorry man. I'm a dick sometimes.

So am I. Truce. :drink:

[Psycho Ward 86]

I,m sorry Zu. I was so intense i did not even realize i may have attacked you. I did attack your post though. From every angle i could come up with. I even went to your home field. Sorry man. I'm a dick sometimes.

So am I. Truce. :drink:

AWWW!!!! SEE HOW OUR COMMON HATRED FOR BRUCE ARIANS BRINGS US ALL TOGETHER?

[zulater]

AWWW!!!! SEE HOW OUR COMMON HATRED FOR BRUCE ARIANS BRINGS US ALL TOGETHER?

:rofl2:

[cold-hard-steel]

So am I. Truce. :drink:

I have no beef with you. Just the Arians......never mind. You spoke your mind and i have to respect that. We will never be enemies if we value the same team.

[Wallace108]

Let me interject here, if I may. When Gary and I were modding Shithole Forever, we were often accused of "protecting" Arians and those who support him and banning those who hated on him which was totally UNTRUE. Hell - I was even accused of being related to him for God's sake (not that I would have a problem with that if it were true as I totally respect the guy). I feel that BA is scapegoated 90% of the time because it is unconscionable for some Steelers fans to realize that the man is human, like all of us, and will make human mistakes just as every other NFL player and coach does. Last season when Lebeau's D shit the bed in SIX GAMES resulting in losses and our missing the playoffs, no one but a few of us dared to call him on it. We read every excuse in the book, Troy's out . . . Aaron's out. . . the O didn't put enough points on the board. :blah: :blah: :blah: Players make mistakes and so do coaches - it's called being human. Personally, I am all for constructive discussion as it is good for the continued health and progression of the board. What I DO have a problem with, however, is destructive discussion which is what these anti-Arians threads always turn into.

You're related to Arians, HTG? I KNEW it!! :chuckle:
I get what you're saying. Sometimes listening to the same ol' bitching and moaning gets old. I get tired of people constantly blaming O'Donnell for the SB loss when Corey Holliday ran the wrong route on one of the INTs.

As I stated in my reply to FS, I believe in being even-handed. I'm going to give Arians credit when I feel he deserves it (while trying not to throw up :wink02:), and I'm going to criticize him when I feel he deserves it. I'll hold him to the same standard I hold every coach and player to. But like I said earlier ... I was just looking for some clarification. (clarification that Arians is a bum. :bolt:). :chuckle:

[cold-hard-steel]

What a nice feeling it is to be alive. Long live the STEELERS !!!!!!

[X-Terminator]

That's what I figured, FS, but I just wanted some clarification. I believe in being even-handed. If Arians makes good calls, I'm going to give him credit. And if he makes bone-headed calls, I'm going to criticize him. That's what I felt the purpose of this thread was ... to criticize a call. And I felt there was some good back-and-forth discussion on it. It really wasn't an anti-Arians thread (hating for the sake of hating).

And that's fine. I have absolutely no issue with anyone who criticizes Arians SO LONG as they also give credit where credit is due. When people wait for the tiniest mistake just to jump on him, well, I have a huge problem with that, and I'm going to say so. And when I pointed out that the play was Ben's call since he calls the plays during the 2-minute offense (which I have been corrected on - sometimes Arians calls plays as well), what's the first thing that happened? I got attacked and called an "apologist" because I pointed that out. You think criticism of Arians is verboten here, which is completely FALSE...well, it sure as shit seems like any praise or pointing out lack of execution by the players is verboten as well. Personally, I didn't like the call at the time, but I'm also not going to automatically dump garbage on BA because it's the "in" thing to do. It could have been his call, it could have been Ben's call, it could have been a joint thing. Who really knows for sure? All we know is that it didn't work.

[Wallace108]

And that's fine. I have absolutely no issue with anyone who criticizes Arians SO LONG as they also give credit where credit is due.
So do you have an issue with people who criticize O'Donnell or Kordell without giving them any credit? :noidea:


When people wait for the tiniest mistake just to jump on him, well, I have a huge problem with that, and I'm going to say so. And when I pointed out that the play was Ben's call since he calls the plays during the 2-minute offense (which I have been corrected on - sometimes Arians calls plays as well), what's the first thing that happened? I got attacked and called an "apologist" because I pointed that out. You think criticism of Arians is verboten here, which is completely FALSE...well, it sure as shit seems like any praise or pointing out lack of execution by the players is verboten as well. Personally, I didn't like the call at the time, but I'm also not going to automatically dump garbage on BA because it's the "in" thing to do. It could have been his call, it could have been Ben's call, it could have been a joint thing. Who really knows for sure? All we know is that it didn't work.

X-T, even though I'm a self-proclaimed Arians hater, I HAVE given him credit in several game threads here. But here's something I've noticed ... it seems our running game has gotten worse since Ben has returned. Logic would suggest that it would get better with the threat of Ben's passing ability. Could this have anything to do with the play calling? While Ben was gone and the Steelers were limited at QB, Arians was calling great games. But with Ben back, he seems to be outsmarting himself.

Sure, you can argue that we're 2-0 since Ben has returned and there should be nothing to complain about. But I was sweating bullets in the third quarter of the Browns game and it took a controversial call to get a win against the Dolphins.

The bottom line is this: We can debate Bruce Arians ad nauseum. That's fine ... and fun. But it seems like when any of us say anything negative about him (even if it's warranted), we get our wrists slapped.

[HometownGal]

But it seems like when any of us say anything negative about him (even if it's warranted), we get our wrists slapped.

How so? Because those of us who don't scapegoat BA or nitpick his every move take exception to those who do? As you said - it's debate. IMHO, however, most times it isn't warranted. When you see his offense leading in the 4Q's of games and our D shits the bed as they did so often last season, you betcha some of us are going to take exception to those who want to unfairly point the finger at BA. The Steelers are 5-1 and 2-0 since Ben's return. There were a couple of ugly games but I'll take an ugly W and like it as not many people thought the Steelers would even get out of the gate without Ben the first 4 games this season. The measure of a good coach, imho, is how his unit performs in the face of adversity and I'd have to say in good conscience that facing adversity the first several weeks of the season having to redesign the playbook to accommodate his 3rd and 4th QB's - he did an excellent job. Since Ben's return, I have had no problem overall with his playcalling as Ben and the O have flourished. Common sense will tell you that a boneheaded play here and there is going to happen with any OC's game plan, as well as an opposing DC being able to sniff out offensive play calls.

If BA warrants criticism as he has several times over the years he's been at the OC helm, I have no problem with it at all and even I have questioned a strategy here and there, but I'm fair about it and don't put the blame on his shoulders for every Steelers loss, every play that doesn't work or a lack of execution at times on the part of the players.

The bottom line here is that all I am asking for is fairness.

[Bluecoat96]

http://www.appletreeblog.com/wp-content/2008/10/rodney-king.jpg

[X-Terminator]

So do you have an issue with people who criticize O'Donnell or Kordell without giving them any credit? :noidea:

Yeah, actually I do. Even though they both made some boneheaded moves that cost the team games, they still made a lot of positive contributions to the team. Anyone who doesn't recognize that is just a blind hater.

Nice try, though.


X-T, even though I'm a self-proclaimed Arians hater, I HAVE given him credit in several game threads here. But here's something I've noticed ... it seems our running game has gotten worse since Ben has returned. Logic would suggest that it would get better with the threat of Ben's passing ability. Could this have anything to do with the play calling? While Ben was gone and the Steelers were limited at QB, Arians was calling great games. But with Ben back, he seems to be outsmarting himself.

Sure, you can argue that we're 2-0 since Ben has returned and there should be nothing to complain about. But I was sweating bullets in the third quarter of the Browns game and it took a controversial call to get a win against the Dolphins.

The bottom line is this: We can debate Bruce Arians ad nauseum. That's fine ... and fun. But it seems like when any of us say anything negative about him (even if it's warranted), we get our wrists slapped.Yeah, I have noticed that they were having problems running the ball in the 2 games since Ben has been back. But while you apparently want to blame JUST the playcalling, I'm going to blame the hogs up front for not getting the job done. Arians actually challenged them in the Browns game, and right after that, they began to run the ball much better than they had earlier in the game. They never got the running game going at all against Miami, particularly after Flo went down with an injury. Regardless of what the offense wants to do, if the OL isn't doing its job, then the play more often than not fails. They'd also open up more room for the running game if they passed more on first down and used the I with both Redman and Mendenhall in the backfield at other times than short yardage. So yeah, part of it is also playcalling. But I can do that, and still acknowledge problems in other areas...unlike some of the Arians haters.

As far as I can recall, this is one of the VERY few times anyone has said anything about someone criticizing Arians. Again, talking about him, even negative talk, IS NOT FORBIDDEN. I don't know how more clear I can be. But if I or anyone else feels the criticism is unjustified, expect them to speak up, just as they would for anyone else on the team. Everything that goes wrong with the offense isn't all his fault.

[zulater]

If we want to make this an Arians thread let me say just one thing. I think Bruce has done a good job this season to date. But something that's come to my attention that gives me reason for concern is that it seems as though the Steelers are trending away from the fullback again. My information is that they only had a player lined up in the position of fb for 7 out of our 57 snaps. This was a much lower number percentage wise than previous games this year, and perhaps this in part is why Mendenhall's ypc has gone down?

[cakmakli]

13 pages of discussion about one failed reverse.

Speak volumes about how much we hate Arians lol.

And how good we have it. At least we are not discussing the topics that they are over at the Cowboys Forums. :tt02:

[cold-hard-steel]

Hopefully we can work on the execution of the plays we are going to be calling. Morning Zu.

[X-Terminator]

If we want to make this an Arians thread let me say just one thing. I think Bruce has done a good job this season to date. But something that's come to my attention that gives me reason for concern is that it seems as though the Steelers are trending away from the fullback again. My information is that they only had a player lined up in the position of fb for 7 out of our 57 snaps. This was a much lower number percentage wise than previous games this year, and perhaps this in part is why Mendenhall's ypc has gone down?

He's never used a true FB anyway, so that doesn't surprise me. It's a little tough to run the ball when there's no lead blocker and teams are stacking 8 guys in the box. But yeah, I haven't seen much of David Johnson on the field the past 2 weeks.

[fansince'76]

The bottom line is this: We can debate Bruce Arians ad nauseum. That's fine ... and fun. But it seems like when any of us say anything negative about him (even if it's warranted), we get our wrists slapped.

And likewise, it seems that when anyone says anything in Arians' defense, they are immediately dismissed as an apologist who doesn't know what they're talking about. It's why I largely don't get involved in threads involving Arians anymore - it's generally the same arguments over and over.

[zulater]

Hopefully we can work on the execution of the plays we are going to be calling. Morning Zu.

No question execution is a huge part of it. But for me personally, I'm partial to having a fullback be an integral part of the offense. I know with Ben the dynamics change, but possibly it doesn't have to be to the point that we fall back into the 2009 offensive mindset. Understanding that the defense and special teams are largely responsible for staking the team to a 3-1 start, I still think offensive grit played a part too. That we could consistently convert short yardage situations by running between the tackles helped preserve leads by running out the clock.

And good morning to you CHS. I'll be gone most of the day, so I'll be talking to you later.:wave:

[cold-hard-steel]

I don't know why Arians has the mindset he has,or how he comes up with his scheme to not utilize a fullback either. I may never get an answer to that.I think he likes his TE's in place of the fullbacks.Thats the only thing i can come up with.

[stlrtruck]

So what's going to be the rallying call when he calls one of these 'gimmick' plays and it goes the distance or at bare minimum a huge gain?

[Wallace108]

As far as I can recall, this is one of the VERY few times anyone has said anything about someone criticizing Arians. Again, talking about him, even negative talk, IS NOT FORBIDDEN.
There's a perception among some of us that Arians is off-limits. There's a reason for that perception.


What torques me off is that there is an assumption that if someone says people should move on and ask why something this minute is being discussed, it's automatically thought of as "shutting down the discussion." It's fucking bullshit. If we really wanted to shut down discussion, we'd just close the thread.
As an admin, you don't have to close a thread to shut down the discussion.
If I walk into a thread and tell everyone that a particular subject is not worthy of discussion and they need to move on, they're going to tell me to STFU and go away. If an admin enters the debate and says the same thing, people tend to listen. It has a chilling effect on the discussion. Remember what happened in the I'm Soooo Bored thread?

If someone criticizes Arians and you disagree with the criticism, then prove them wrong. But telling them it shouldn't be discussed and they need to move on DOES shut down the discussion. That's all I'm saying.

Speaking of moving on, that's what I think I'll do. :drink:

[Texasteel]

An admin. and a mod is member here just like everyone else, yet we see them as having less rights than anyone else. If any of us think a thread or a post is ridiculous, or that a discussion has gone on to long we can say it. Yet if a mod or admin does this its considered censorship. Sometimes I wonder just who is censoring who. If I have a right to say what I think, if you have the right to say what you think, then everyone has that same right, including the mods and admins. As long is it is not destructive to the site or attacks another poster.

And this is way off topic, so I will move on also.

[Chidi29]

I don't know why Arians has the mindset he has,or how he comes up with his scheme to not utilize a fullback either. I may never get an answer to that.I think he likes his TE's in place of the fullbacks.Thats the only thing i can come up with.

He has not been given a true lead blocker.

Which tells us Tomlin and Colbert do not think we need one.

[X-Terminator]

There's a perception among some of us that Arians is off-limits. There's a reason for that perception.


As an admin, you don't have to close a thread to shut down the discussion.
If I walk into a thread and tell everyone that a particular subject is not worthy of discussion and they need to move on, they're going to tell me to STFU and go away. If an admin enters the debate and says the same thing, people tend to listen. It has a chilling effect on the discussion. Remember what happened in the I'm Soooo Bored thread?

If someone criticizes Arians and you disagree with the criticism, then prove them wrong. But telling them it shouldn't be discussed and they need to move on DOES shut down the discussion. That's all I'm saying.

Speaking of moving on, that's what I think I'll do. :drink:

Question...are people still participating in this thread? Yes? Then the discussion hasn't been shut down.

Unbelievable...we question ONE fucking play call that ultimately meant nothing, and here comes the "YOU'RE TELLING ME TO STFU!!!" cries again. The original topic, if you'll notice, was still being openly discussed until we went off on a tangent. And lookie here...it's taken yet ANOTHER tangent, and one that I actually participated in and have no problem with.

Imagine that.

Here's the bottom line. We ARE NOT shutting down any discussions of Arians here, positive OR negative. And with that, I am moving on from this topic.

[Chidi29]

Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya...

[X-Terminator]

He has not been given a true lead blocker.

Which tells us Tomlin and Colbert do not think we need one.

Arians has said there is no true FB in his offense, so therefore, they don't have one. If Tomlin and Colbert wanted him to use a lead blocker more often, I'd like to think it would be done whether he wants it or not.

[Wallace108]

An admin. and a mod is member here just like everyone else, yet we see them as having less rights than anyone else. If any of us think a thread or a post is ridiculous, or that a discussion has gone on to long we can say it. Yet if a mod or admin does this its considered censorship. Sometimes I wonder just who is censoring who. If I have a right to say what I think, if you have the right to say what you think, then everyone has that same right, including the mods and admins. As long is it is not destructive to the site or attacks another poster.

And this is way off topic, so I will move on also.

Come on, Tex. That's like saying that your boss is no different than all the other employees. Yes he is ... he's the BOSS! And what he says carries more weight than the other employees. I think you missed my point.

[Chidi29]

Arians has said there is no true FB in his offense, so therefore, they don't have one. If Tomlin and Colbert wanted him to use a lead blocker more often, I'd like to think it would be done whether he wants it or not.

That statement has been so greatly exaggerated. His actions speak louder than words and we do use a FB from time to time. Just not as much because of the change in offense, no longer a power team, and the lack of a Krieder/lead blocking FB.

We used a FB formation over a quarter of the running plays last week.

[Texasteel]

Come on, Tex. That's like saying that your boss is no different than all the other employees. Yes he is ... he's the BOSS! And what he says carries more weight than the other employees. I think you missed my point.

No I didn't miss your point. Just made one of my own. Do we need to make a set of rule limiting what a Mod or Admin can say, or where they can or can not post. Maybe limit the number of post they are aloud to make. If this comments were made about any other member we would all step back and say, wait a minute, but because it is a mod or an admin. it seems to be alright. These are member just like anyone else, and have the same rights to post as anyone else. Even if we don't like what they say.

[Wallace108]

The original topic, if you'll notice, was still being openly discussed until we went off on a tangent. And lookie here...it's taken yet ANOTHER tangent, and one that I actually participated in and have no problem with.

But why did we go off on a tangent? Oh, that's right ... we were told to move on. So let's move on.

[Wallace108]

No I didn't miss your point. Just made one of my own. Do we need to make a set of rule limiting what a Mod or Admin can say, or where they can or can not post. Maybe limit the number of post they are aloud to make. If this comments were made about any other member we would all step back and say, wait a minute, but because it is a mod or an admin. it seems to be alright. These are member just like anyone else, and have the same rights to post as anyone else. Even if we don't like what they say.

Tex, there's a huge difference between mods/admins and regular posters. The things they say carry more weight. If there's no difference between us, then fine, give me the power to ban people. I know where I'd like to start. :sofunny:

[cold-hard-steel]

Nice post t- steel. I know my azz is sore and bruised up because of HTL. I deserved each blow too. I'm surprised over the years i did not have to get that strong foot,"size 8 "can hurt surgically removed. All you guys on here are a sort of extended family to me. In every family is a brat,i guess thats me.I've grown a lot over the years,and my family helped me along the way.I love all you guys for that. I don't give love freely and we are all a "strong as steel" family.
And this is way off topic, so I will move on also.[/QUOTE]

[Texasteel]

Tex, there's a huge difference between mods/admins and regular posters. The things they say carry more weight. If there's no difference between us, then fine, give me the power to ban people. I know where I'd like to start. :sofunny:

And that is like saying that Obama should not be able to vote, or speak his mind on a subject.

Fact is the Mods and Admins. are needed to keep a site going. You can't just let everyone have the same authority or you have a mess. If your idea is that these members that do this work are not untitled to the same right and privies as you and I and should keep their mouths shut then your right, we will not agree. I don't care who it is. If one of us has the right to speak our minds, then all of us do. Or the idea of RIGHTS are useless.

[Wallace108]

And that is like saying that Obama should not be able to vote, or speak his mind on a subject.

No, I don't think Obama should be allowed to speak his mind. Every time he speaks, it costs me money. :chuckle:

Tex, out of respect for you, I'm not going to continue this conversation.

[HometownGal]

Nice post t- steel. I know my azz is sore and bruised up because of HTL. I deserved each blow too. I'm surprised over the years i did not have to get that strong foot,"size 8 "can hurt surgically removed. All you guys on here are a sort of extended family to me. In every family is a brat,i guess thats me.I've grown a lot over the years,and my family helped me along the way.I love all you guys for that. I don't give love freely and we are all a "strong as steel" family.
And this is way off topic, so I will move on also.

Would you please stop referring to me as "HTL" before I put you over my knee and spank your hiney you brat? :heh:

Wally - no one was ever "told" to STFU on this topic. It was suggested due to the fact that we aren't even at the halfway point this season, are 5-1 and leading the AFCN and our OC, who has, imho, done a very good job thus far - is once again being nitpicked on one play that wasn't successful. I find it quite ironic that all of the successful plays he called (not only in this game) haven't been mentioned (other than by you and I in one of the "Game Ball" threads). Quite puzzling don't you agree?

[cold-hard-steel]

Sorry HTL,i mean HTG. Our offense is still evolving in this season. I think we have what it takes to open up a can of whup-azz on any team we play offensively. Our defense is in question now,but our offense is still very much capable of opening up. We need to focus on execution more than who is calling the plays.

[X-Terminator]

That statement has been so greatly exaggerated. His actions speak louder than words and we do use a FB from time to time. Just not as much because of the change in offense, no longer a power team, and the lack of a Krieder/lead blocking FB.

We used a FB formation over a quarter of the running plays last week.

How is it exaggerated? Those words came from his mouth. The fact is they may use a FB formation, but they do not have a true FB in the offense in the sense that his primary job is to lead block. They use Johnson, a TE; Redman, a HB/FB hybrid; and sometimes Legursky, an OL. None of those guys are true FBs.

[Wallace108]

Would you please stop referring to me as "HTL" before I put you over my knee and spank your hiney you brat? :heh:

For some reason, I have a feeling that spankings are not a deterrent to CHS. Threatening to put him over your knee is only going to encourage him, HTL, er, I mean HTG.

[cold-hard-steel]

Arians has always valued his TE's. The chips are stacked against us going down to New orleans.You can not,or i should say ,should not write this offense off just yet. New Orleans is the team we need to run over at this juncture in our season. I will say it now so i can get it out of the way. If we even show a hint of getting our running game going,and we start to run the ball at will,we will win this game. We have a running attack waiting to inflict some attrition on our opponent. We start running the ball man,we are leavin the house of the risen sun a winner.

[cold-hard-steel]

For some reason, I have a feeling that spankings are not a deterrent to CHS. Threatening to put him over your knee is only going to encourage him, HTL, er, I mean HTG.

Whatever dude. Good point though. We are all family here.Thats where i was going with that. So i am the brat. Growing up in a family of 7 i had practice.

[cold-hard-steel]

For some reason, I have a feeling that spankings are not a deterrent to CHS. Threatening to put him over your knee is only going to encourage him, HTL, er, I mean HTG.

Seems you need to clean out your in box or something.I tried to reply but you are all filled up. Anyway, Steelers rock !

[zulater]

So what's going to be the rallying call when he calls one of these 'gimmick' plays and it goes the distance or at bare minimum a huge gain?

It wont change the fact that for me the wr reverse was the wrong call at the time and place they called it against Miami, specific to that game and those circumstances. Just like I think the game changing interception Ben threw last year on first and goal from the Chiefs 9 yard line last season was largely predicated on needlessy going to an empty back set with game time not a factor. Or that i think the entire pass happy game plan the Steelers employed last season in Cleveland in what Hines Ward reffered to as the worst weather game of his career was a poor game plan based on the elements.

Do I think the Steelers should never use the empty back set? No. Do I think the Steelers should never abandon the run early and go with a pass happy attack? No.

But just as was true in those circumstances, so is it true in my opinion that the WR reverse was a poor play call specific to that game at that moment.

[Wallace108]

Seems you need to clean out your in box or something.I tried to reply but you are all filled up. Anyway, Steelers rock !

Sorry, dude. It was all filled up with hate mail from BA and his family. I cleared some space.

[zulater]

btw I'm predicting a brilliant game plan from Bruce being brilliantly executed by Ben and the entire offense in New Orleans on our way to a 34-24 victory!

[cold-hard-steel]

He might try that same play again with a variation. Or the special teams might try some nifty stuff.

[cold-hard-steel]

Would you please stop referring to me as "HTL" before I put you over my knee and spank your hiney you brat? :heh:

Wally - no one was ever "told" to STFU on this topic. It was suggested due to the fact that we aren't even at the halfway point this season, are 5-1 and leading the AFCN and our OC, who has, imho, done a very good job thus far - is once again being nitpicked on one play that wasn't successful. I find it quite ironic that all of the successful plays he called (not only in this game) haven't been mentioned (other than by you and I in one of the "Game Ball" threads). Quite puzzling don't you agree?

Mods she threatened me HELP !!!!!!! All for calling her a Home town ladie.

[cold-hard-steel]

I was just picking.

[Craic]

How is it exaggerated? Those words came from his mouth. The fact is they may use a FB formation, but they do not have a true FB in the offense in the sense that his primary job is to lead block. They use Johnson, a TE; Redman, a HB/FB hybrid; and sometimes Legursky, an OL. None of those guys are true FBs.

I think I agree that it is exaggerated. Not in the words that are used, but in the interpretation. If I remember right, what they were really referring to, was a one-trick pony FB that basically was only a blocker. Once in a while he would run with the ball. The comment was that the FB- as understood as a one-task player, is obsolete in the league. What they wanted, was a FB that could do some blocking, but also run with the ball, also catch out of the backfield. The Tank was supposed to be exactly that. someone who could catch out of the backfield, run with the ball, AND block. He failed. Carey Davis was the same thing. He also failed. So, now we have Redman. He has rushed 24 times, and caught the ball 3 times in the first 6 games, as well as blocking.

[Chidi29]

How is it exaggerated? Those words came from his mouth. The fact is they may use a FB formation, but they do not have a true FB in the offense in the sense that his primary job is to lead block. They use Johnson, a TE; Redman, a HB/FB hybrid; and sometimes Legursky, an OL. None of those guys are true FBs.

It's exaggerated in the sense that people overlook what he is putting on the field and just at the words.

Bruce could have a FB every play and people would rather look at the quote than the field. He is using one over a quarter of the time (last week at least) and people still say he doesn't use a FB.

I know none of those guys are true FBs. Which is why I don't complain when we don't use one.

[cold-hard-steel]

I have read over this thread to try and find all of those i may have offended with my passionate remarks,and beliefs on this subject. I have contacted some concerning this matter,but if there are any others i would like to also extend my apologies to them.I know i can get carried away sometimes,but i really do not mean any harm to anyone. I guess i like to egg things on sometimes. Our differences in our beliefs should not make us enemies. If i missed someone pm me,and i will make things right.I can't stop being me,but i can still respect all of my Steel brothers and sisters. I'm sorry.