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7SteelGal43
10-22-2010, 03:34 PM
Be honest. Even if you support it, can you honestly tell me that the US Govt will be able to cover the cost ? And do you honestly believe coverage and services will live up to expectations ? I happen to know of a lady who is low income and was on medicaid due to age and health problems. She's recently been dropped and Obamacare isn't even in full effect.

And I wonder what happens to hospitals like St Jude Childrens Research Hospital right here in Memphis, TN. When my neice was about 8 or 9, she was diagnosed with leukemia. She went through chemo. She had extended stays in the hospital. She received the best care you could possibly imagine. Better then anywhere in the world could've given her. The total cost to her family for the treatment ? $0. Nobody is turned away because of inability to pay. Those who can pay, do. Or pay what they can. Those who can't still get the best treatment. And it's because of generosity and caring of people, NOT the US Govt.

Count Steeler
10-22-2010, 03:36 PM
Unfortunately it is not the US Govt that has to cover the cost, but the US Taxpayers.

This is what frustrates me so much here in Canada. Our health system is NOT free!!!! We pay and we pay and we pay again through unending and ever increasing taxes.

7SteelGal43
10-22-2010, 04:04 PM
Unfortunately it is not the US Govt that has to cover the cost, but the US Taxpayers.

This is what frustrates me so much here in Canada. Our health system is NOT free!!!! We pay and we pay and we pay again through unending and ever increasing taxes.


Exactly !!! And I mean after all, American taxpayers aren't nearly taxed enough already.

Mach1
10-22-2010, 04:30 PM
Also whats going to happen to the Ronald McDonald houses since McDonald's is deemed to be evil now. People seem to forget about what they give back to people, children and families.

7SteelGal43
10-22-2010, 06:04 PM
Also whats going to happen to the Ronald McDonald houses since McDonald's is deemed to be evil now. People seem to forget about what they give back to people, children and families.

yup, there are actually two here in Memphis. meh'....what do you expect from evil Americans ?!

Count Steeler
10-22-2010, 06:08 PM
Exactly !!! And I mean after all, American taxpayers aren't nearly taxed enough already.

Sorry 7SteelGal43, on this topic you have to take a backseat to the Canadians in the room. I can only dream of having my taxes reduced to the levels in the US. I mean I come down to Grove City to buy my family clothes and stuff because there is no sales taxes on clothes. Every time I buy something here in Toronto, I have to add 13% to the total for sales taxes. And I have to pay this with money that has already been filtered through the income tax system, which takes about 30% from my pay. Then I have to pay property tax... Sorry I have to stop before I blow a gasket.:mad2::mad2::mad2:

7SteelGal43
10-23-2010, 10:04 AM
Sorry 7SteelGal43, on this topic you have to take a backseat to the Canadians in the room. I can only dream of having my taxes reduced to the levels in the US. I mean I come down to Grove City to buy my family clothes and stuff because there is no sales taxes on clothes. Every time I buy something here in Toronto, I have to add 13% to the total for sales taxes. And I have to pay this with money that has already been filtered through the income tax system, which takes about 30% from my pay. Then I have to pay property tax... Sorry I have to stop before I blow a gasket.:mad2::mad2::mad2:

I yield to your plight, however, we're on a course in the same direction, and with Obama's foot on the gas pedal flooring it, we may catch ya real soon. (God forbid)

Wallace108
10-23-2010, 10:53 AM
Just wait until people are FORCED to start paying for health care. The ones who are going to get screwed are the people who are barely making ends meet right now but make too much money to qualify for government assistance. And there are a LOT of people who fit that description.

And wait until companies start dropping workers' insurance. In fact, it's already starting to happen.

This isn't going to be all rainbows and lollipops as some would have us believe.

Godfather
10-23-2010, 11:49 AM
Sorry 7SteelGal43, on this topic you have to take a backseat to the Canadians in the room. I can only dream of having my taxes reduced to the levels in the US. I mean I come down to Grove City to buy my family clothes and stuff because there is no sales taxes on clothes. Every time I buy something here in Toronto, I have to add 13% to the total for sales taxes. And I have to pay this with money that has already been filtered through the income tax system, which takes about 30% from my pay. Then I have to pay property tax... Sorry I have to stop before I blow a gasket.:mad2::mad2::mad2:

We're not much better off than you are. Our nominal rates look better but we have a lot of hidden taxes on the employer side. If you add income tax and FICA/Medicare (including the employer match), FUTA, SUTA, workers comp, etc., most of us are getting hit as bad. Then in Mississippi you have an additional 5% state income tax and a 7% sales tax with no exemption for groceries. :frusty:

Soon we'll have Obamacare too, and since you're forced to buy insurance it's a tax. To claim otherwise is Enron accounting...and as a bonus, they force you to buy a bunch of wasteful coverage to make it even more expensive.

Count Steeler
10-23-2010, 06:20 PM
Hey Godfather. Trust me, we have the hidden employer taxes as well.

How stupid can the government be to tax employment? What is the main goal in the economy? Jobs. We hear it all the time. No one can argue that taxes are a disincentive, so why tax employment? Employers should be encouraged, not discouraged from hiring. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

7SteelGal43
10-24-2010, 05:42 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101024/ap_on_re_us/us_employer_health_plans


FILE - In this Jan. 13, 2010, file photo Democratic Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen speaks in Nashville, Tenn. The new health care law wasn't supposed to undercut employer plans that have provided most people in the U.S. with coverage for generations. But said Bredesen, 'The economics of dropping existing coverage is about to become very attractive to many employers, both public and private.'


http://stupidfathobbit.org/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/duh-duh.jpg

The WH
10-25-2010, 06:16 AM
::shouting from atop tax mountain, Sweden:: see you all here soon. nice view...iew...iew...iew

The WH
10-25-2010, 06:19 AM
How stupid can the government be to tax employment? What is the main goal in the economy? Jobs. We hear it all the time. No one can argue that taxes are a disincentive, so why tax employment? Employers should be encouraged, not discouraged from hiring. Dumb, dumb, dumb.If there is ANYTHING in the Swedish taxation system that I simply detest it's this. 33% Job-Giver Tax. No-fucking-Wonder companies in Sweden go to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania....etc...

If you eliminate job taxes the Social Democrats here would say ''well where would the taxes come from thenīī If you eliminate or reduce job taxes employers would be more inclined to hire more employees, you get to tax their wages AND you also take them off government assitance (which they were probably on) So if they end up paying 3000 cockandballs (the Swedish Crown is a :- symbol) in wage taxes instead of sucking up 8000 cockandballs in unemployment even if you eliminate the 3000 cockandballs the employer would have paid you still come out on top with 2000 extra.

beSteelmyheart
10-29-2010, 02:12 PM
Just wait until people are FORCED to start paying for health care. The ones who are going to get screwed are the people who are barely making ends meet right now but make too much money to qualify for government assistance. And there are a LOT of people who fit that description.

And wait until companies start dropping workers' insurance. In fact, it's already starting to happen.

This isn't going to be all rainbows and lollipops as some would have us believe.
That would be me...But our company didn't drop our insurance-it went up, like it does every year And this year I finally had to drop it-I'm making 32 hours a week & just can't afford it anymore.

The WH
10-29-2010, 02:24 PM
I think this would have been a good bill if they would have said ''Any Healthcare for all children 18 and under, aside from medications, is free. If in a calendar year a person has to spend more than 300 on medications either for an adult or for a child, the federal government will pick up the tab for the remainder of that calendar year''

let the flaming begin....

GoSlash27
10-29-2010, 06:52 PM
I think this would have been a good bill if they would have said ''Any Healthcare for all children 18 and under, aside from medications, is free. If in a calendar year a person has to spend more than 300 on medications either for an adult or for a child, the federal government will pick up the tab for the remainder of that calendar year''

let the flaming begin....

*leafing through my copy of the Constitution*...
Sorry, I can't find the part where it says they're allowed to do that.

Lemme check with Madison. James?
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
Thanks, Jim.

Count Steeler
10-29-2010, 07:55 PM
I think this would have been a good bill if they would have said ''Any Healthcare for all children 18 and under, aside from medications, is free. If in a calendar year a person has to spend more than 300 on medications either for an adult or for a child, the federal government will pick up the tab for the remainder of that calendar year''

let the flaming begin....

And you will be at the front of the line, paying your taxes cheerfully and encouraging your citizenry that increased wealth is bad, increased taxation is good. You, along with your fellow citizens donate your money through taxes to pay for your "free" system.

Wallace108
10-29-2010, 08:30 PM
"To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and
that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to
others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry
and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of
association--the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his
industry and the fruits acquired by it."

- Thomas Jefferson: Note in Tracy's "Political Economy," 1816.

7SteelGal43
10-29-2010, 08:53 PM
"To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and
that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to
others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry
and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of
association--the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his
industry and the fruits acquired by it."

- Thomas Jefferson: Note in Tracy's "Political Economy," 1816.



Truly brilliant stuff. You payin' attention Obamie ?

GBMelBlount
10-29-2010, 08:58 PM
If a government (monopoly) could produce a better product at a better price than people in a free and competitive market, I would be ALL for it.

Unfortunately, I am not sure that has ever happened.

GBMelBlount
10-29-2010, 09:03 PM
That would be me...But our company didn't drop our insurance-it went up, like it does every year And this year I finally had to drop it-I'm making 32 hours a week & just can't afford it anymore.

I am sorry to hear that Steel. It is tough everywhere it seems...Our insurance/medical costs are over $20,000 per year.

The WH
10-30-2010, 03:23 AM
And you will be at the front of the line, paying your taxes cheerfully and encouraging your citizenry that increased wealth is bad, increased taxation is good. You, along with your fellow citizens donate your money through taxes to pay for your "free" system.
Hey man, if paying high taxes means that when one of my kids gets sick it's guaranteed 100% that they'll get taken care, I'll pay high taxes. If it means that I'm not going to see you, me, or anyone else have to set up ''please help me'' or ''please help my sick, dying child because we can't afford their Chemotherapy costs'' jars at 7-11 i'll pay high taxes.

I'd sacrifice an extra 400$ (how much I pay a month in taxes here) a month in taxes instead of 350$ (what I paid per month for health insurance BEFORE my daughter was born) a month for health insurance to ensure my kids AND your kids are always going to get the care they need when they get sick without a doubt.

The WH
10-30-2010, 03:38 AM
That would be me...But our company didn't drop our insurance-it went up, like it does every year And this year I finally had to drop it-I'm making 32 hours a week & just can't afford it anymore.

Republico the Elephant says

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZBw4E2aHiz0C17bp7QdLfJ7G4LScyx CU469u1T12Ua_07VU8&t=1&usg=__nBq4RDOlTOCRt24c0zoYcQ0rxZU=

32 hours a week? I guess that means you can find a second job to fill in the othe 28 you should be working....

GBMelBlount
10-30-2010, 07:38 AM
Hey man.....If it means that I'm not going to see you, me, or anyone else have to set up ''please help me'' or ''please help my sick, dying child because we can't afford their Chemotherapy costs'' jars at 7-11 i'll pay high taxes.



Well WH, I doubt there is not a person on this board that does not understand your point emotionally....and it having a 10 year old daughter, it certainly hits home with me.

That being said, having a financial analysis and economics background I ALWAYS have to look at the numbers and costs for each benefit...and the costs for this, I am guessing will end up being very high over the long term.

Point is there are ostensibly a lot of good things the government does BUT unfortunately, because the government is a monopoly that operates on other peoples money and has virtually no accountability, the aggregate costs for all of these terribly managed programs has broken the financial back of our country.

So yes, your point tugs at my heart strings but in reality the numbers never seem to end up working and the tax payer is ALWAYS on the hook.

The WH
10-30-2010, 09:46 AM
I see your point. Though I think your damned if the government controls it and your damned if the healthcare consortiums control it. either way....everyone is on the hook.

7SteelGal43
10-30-2010, 10:30 AM
Hey man, if paying high taxes means that when one of my kids gets sick it's guaranteed 100% that they'll get taken care, I'll pay high taxes. If it means that I'm not going to see you, me, or anyone else have to set up ''please help me'' or ''please help my sick, dying child because we can't afford their Chemotherapy costs'' jars at 7-11 i'll pay high taxes.

I'd sacrifice an extra 400$ (how much I pay a month in taxes here) a month in taxes instead of 350$ (what I paid per month for health insurance BEFORE my daughter was born) a month for health insurance to ensure my kids AND your kids are always going to get the care they need when they get sick without a doubt.


WH, let's be real. When the funds run low, one of two things has to happen. Tax the people even more to meet the costs or cut services. I'm sure the first thing they'll do is tax the people more, but then you can only squeeze so much out of them. So of course they'll have to cut services. Please tell me if there is anything untrue about what I just said or if you believe neither of those things will happen? Please tell me if you believe that Obamacare (or anything like it for that matter) will mean slightly higher taxes and "free" healthcare for every man woman and child in America.

Count Steeler
10-30-2010, 10:36 AM
I see your point. Though I think your damned if the government controls it and your damned if the healthcare consortiums control it. either way....everyone is on the hook.

One thing that bothers me about the government controlling it is that it has not worked well anywhere it is tried. Here in Canada, one of the main issues of an election about 10 years ago was the debate on a two tier health system. The government run one for the peons and a private one for those willing to pay out extra money. The Liberals supported government controlled throughout, the Conservatives supported 2 tier. The Liberals won, but we are still headed to a two tier system because the government run system sucks. Long waiting times, misdiagnoses, lack of MRI, lack of modern equipment.

To keep it short, my dad, recently deceased, was misdiagnosed. He had a growth on his cheek and the doctor removed the growth (after 2 months). The growth was cancerous but the doctor missed it. The growth came back worse than at first and was rescheduled for surgery 6 months later. He did not make it to his surgery date. Yes his surgery would have been "free", too bad it took so long to schedule. What good is free healthcare when it can't be delivered in a timely manner. Yes your child's treatments may be free, but will they get the treatment in time?

Another thing you have to remember, your health care system is good now, because it has been mainly private. If the government takes over, it will remain good for a while, but decay and bureaucracy will soon take over and wait times will start to lengthen, services will diminish, some services will be delisted from the free list, more money will make its way to administration and not patient care, and on and on.

GBMelBlount
10-30-2010, 10:37 AM
I see your point. Though I think your damned if the government controls it and your damned if the healthcare consortiums control it. either way....everyone is on the hook.

Understand. Without a doubt health care costs were / are out of control.

What is the best solution...imo, in a perfect world it would be a free and competitive market without major barriers to entry or limitations on consumers, that is PROPERLY regulated by government.

GBMelBlount
10-30-2010, 10:47 AM
To keep it short, my dad, recently deceased, was misdiagnosed. He had a growth on his cheek and the doctor removed the growth (after 2 months). The growth was cancerous but the doctor missed it. The growth came back worse than at first and was rescheduled for surgery 6 months later. He did not make it to his surgery date. Yes his surgery would have been "free", too bad it took so long to schedule. What good is free healthcare when it can't be delivered in a timely manner. Yes your child's treatments may be free, but will they get the treatment in time?

Another thing you have to remember, your health care system is good now, because it has been mainly private. If the government takes over, it will remain good for a while, but decay and bureaucracy will soon take over and wait times will start to lengthen, services will diminish, some services will be delisted from the free list, more money will make its way to administration and not patient care, and on and on.

First of all Carnoj, let me say I am sorry for your loss...and secondly I do agree with the spirit of what you are saying here and I personally believe it will likely be our LONG TERM consequences as well. Problem is that by the time people realize how bad it is, it is already too late. Then we will have a terrible system that is tax payer funded and then a second one the people that can afford it will have to pay extra for to get quality care like we have now.

Count Steeler
10-30-2010, 10:57 AM
First of all Carnoj, let me say I am sorry for your loss...and secondly I do agree with the spirit of what you are saying here and I personally believe it will likely be our LONG TERM consequences as well. Problem is that by the time people realize how bad it is, it is already too late. Then we will have a terrible system that is tax payer funded and then a second one the people that can afford it will have to pay extra for to get quality care like we have now.

You got it GB. Thanks for your words.

7SteelGal43
10-30-2010, 11:29 AM
ok WH, I had a long dissertation typed about my personal experiences or my families regarding healthcare costs -vs- higher taxes. Screw that. Let me make it REAL simple for ya. It wasn't the $15,000 of medical bills which the hospitals/doctors gladly accepted $50 a month from me in re-payment that drove me to bankruptcy, it was the $35,000 in income taxes. With the IRS, it's "pay or else".

Mach1
10-30-2010, 01:27 PM
ok WH, I had a long dissertation typed about my personal experiences or my families regarding healthcare costs -vs- higher taxes. Screw that. Let me make it REAL simple for ya. It wasn't the $15,000 of medical bills which the hospitals/doctors gladly accepted $50 a month from me in re-payment that drove me to bankruptcy, it was the $35,000 in income taxes. With the IRS, it's "pay or else".

And just think, now the IRS will be in charge of your health care. Care to guess how that repayment system is gonna work?

Bet they wont accept $50. a month.

7SteelGal43
10-30-2010, 01:38 PM
And just think, now the IRS will be in charge of your health care. Care to guess how that repayment system is gonna work?

Bet they wont accept $50. a month.


http://www.ramblestrip.com/scream.gif

smokin3000gt
10-30-2010, 01:52 PM
Republico the Elephant says

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZBw4E2aHiz0C17bp7QdLfJ7G4LScyx CU469u1T12Ua_07VU8&t=1&usg=__nBq4RDOlTOCRt24c0zoYcQ0rxZU=

32 hours a week? I guess that means you can find a second job to fill in the othe 28 you should be working....

http://www.madisonct.org/images/democratic-donkey.gif
Demo-Donkey says:

It doesn't matter how many hours you worked! That business is a business, therefore they should pay you 40+ hrs a week regardless of how many you actually worked or whether they can afford it or not. If their doors are still open, you're not getting enough! GO UNION!!

Count Steeler
10-30-2010, 07:04 PM
And just think, now the IRS will be in charge of your health care. Care to guess how that repayment system is gonna work?

Bet they wont accept $50. a month.

But they won't have to, because everyone will be contributing on every paycheck.

7SteelGal43
10-30-2010, 08:30 PM
But they won't have to, because everyone will be contributing on every paycheck.

WOO HOOOOOOO just what every American is hoping for, a smaller paycheck :high5:











B.O.H.I.C.A.

Mach1
10-30-2010, 09:27 PM
But they won't have to, because everyone will be contributing on every paycheck.

Just keep telling yourself that.

Oh by the way, I'm still waiting for my FREE stuff.

Count Steeler
10-31-2010, 08:06 AM
Just keep telling yourself that.

Oh by the way, I'm still waiting for my FREE stuff.

The government can not pay for anything on it's own. Every program, every "benefit" comes at the expense of the taxpayer.

"Hi, I'm from the government, and I am here to help". When you hear this, RUN.

GBMelBlount
10-31-2010, 09:51 AM
The government can not pay for anything on it's own. Every program, every "benefit" comes at the expense of the taxpayer.

"Hi, I'm from the government, and I am here to help". When you hear this, RUN.

Unless you don't pay taxes in which case you let them in and tell them all of the new things you want them to provide for you. :chuckle:

The feelings of pride, importance and self worth that politicians experience when they provide free good and services to people using other people's money is no doubt intoxicating.

Even republicans and conservatives are often guilty once in power as well.

The WH
10-31-2010, 10:19 AM
Like a great fictional man once said ''with great power, comes great responsibility.''

GBMelBlount
10-31-2010, 10:44 AM
Like a great fictional man once said ''with great power, comes great responsibility.''

I think you can make an analogy between an owner of a large company and a major politician.

An owner of a large business looks at the company in groups (divisions)...production, accounting, sales, I.T., etc. and a politician starts to look at their constituents by groups as well. Corporations, business owners, common workers, retired, disabled, unemployed, etc.

So naturally, when you see a large group of constituents (and voting base) under duress, it is only natural to start thinking, well, if I take just a little bit more from those who are "wealthy" and who have been rewarded by the free market system and give it to those who are unemployed let's say, and extend their unemployment from 26 weeks to 52 weeks and provide a little better "safety net"...well, on the surface it makes good sense and the people who are paying for it can afford it...so the good outweighs the bad in the eyes of many politicians.

However, AS A BUSINESS OWNER, I FEEL THE PROBLEM MOST PEOPLE DON'T SEE IS THE AGGREGATE DRAG OF TAXES ON BUSINESS, PRODUCTIVITY, COMPETITIVENESS, SALES, EMPLOYMENT, etc.

Also, when you add up ALL of these costly programs to help special groups and factor in how inefficient the government is, it is a long term recipe for financial disaster...which is a large reason why we are going down the road to European type problems imo.

Even as a conservative, I DO understand the THEORY behind a lot of the government programs BUT have a problem with the government mismanagement and cost over runs with no accountability and I do believe that there are liberals who realize this as well and also feel the government needs to run within its means and with more efficiency and accountability.

This should not be an argument of right vs. left at this point, but given our current circumstances, how we can work together to solve our problems and keep the greatest country on earth, prosperous and moving forward so all will benefit.

7SteelGal43
10-31-2010, 11:11 AM
Like a great fictional man once said ''with great power, comes great responsibility.''

ok, I'll bite, what great fictional man are you referring to, and does that mean we're responsible to earn a living for me AND my lazy won't work neighbor ?




(regretting it already)

GBMelBlount
10-31-2010, 11:17 AM
ok, I'll bite, what great fictional man are you referring to, and does that mean we're responsible to earn a living for me AND my lazy won't work neighbor ?

(regretting it already)

LOL!

I read it differently gal. I didn't infer that this was advocating the responsibility of "taking care of everyone", but simply espousing the principles of governing wisely and responsibly, in general.

7SteelGal43
10-31-2010, 11:33 AM
LOL!

I read it differently gal. I didn't infer that this was advocating the responsibility of "taking care of everyone", but simply espousing the principles of governing wisely and responsibly, in general.

alright, makes sense. I can hope thats what he meant. still curious 'bout what great fictional man he's referring to.




(ain't i a stinker ? :wink02: )

Wallace108
10-31-2010, 12:38 PM
still curious 'bout what great fictional man he's referring to.

:noidea:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ZDuPJcP7qbqAXM:http://drivetheline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/spider-man-with-great-power-comes-great-responsibility.jpg&t=1

GBMelBlount
10-31-2010, 12:56 PM
The most popular source of this quote is from Ben Parker, Peter Parker's uncle who raised him. These are of course fictional characters and the writing would be that of Stan Lee.

However the phrase is of much more antiquated origins and quotes similar to it can be found all the way back to ancient Greece. One such would be Socrates 'rule worthy of might.'

Benjamin "Ben" Parker, usually called Uncle Ben, was a supporting

character in the Marvel Universe’s Spider-Man stories. He was created by writer Stan Lee and artist Steve Ditko.

Parker was the uncle and surrogate father of Peter Parker, Spider-Man’s alter ego. His death at the hands of a burglar that Spider-Man declined to pursue earlier forever propelled Peter into the role of superhero.

This is from wikanswers & wikipedia combined.

Benjamin Parker it is...

and of course failure to adhere to this motto has created a large and helpless population collectively referred to as "Benjamin Dover's"...

silver & black
11-01-2010, 06:04 AM
THIS WILL “STIMULATE” YOU!





This came from the Senior Tax Editor for Kiplinger Letters

Subject: This Will be Difficult For All of Us





In just three months, on January 1, 2011, the largest tax hikes in the history of America will take effect.

They will hit families and small businesses in three great waves.

On January 1, 2011, here's what happens... (read it to the end, so you see all three waves)...



First Wave:


Expiration of 2001 and 2003 Tax Relief

In 2001 and 2003, the GOP Congress enacted several tax cuts for investors, small business owners, and families.

These will all expire on January 1, 2011.



Personal income tax rates will rise.

The top income tax rate will rise from 35 to 39.6 percent (this is also the rate at which two-thirds of small business profits are taxed).

The lowest rate will rise from 10 to 15 percent.

All the rates in between will also rise.


Itemized deductions and personal exemptions will again phase out, which has the same mathematical effect as highermarginal tax rates.


The full list of marginal rate hikes is below:

The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15%
The 25% bracket rises to 28%
The 28% bracket rises to 31%
The 33% bracket rises to 36%
The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%

Higher taxes on marriage and family.

The "marriage penalty" (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of income.

The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child.

The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level.

The dependent care and adoption tax credits will be cut.


The return of the Death Tax.

This year only, there is no death tax. (It's a quirk!) For those dying on or after January 1, 2011, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes, a business, a retirement account, could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones. Think of the farmers who don't make much money, but their land, which they purchased years ago with after-tax dollars, is now worth a lot of money. Their children will have to sell the farm, which may be their livelihood, just to pay the estate tax if they don't have the cash sitting around to pay the tax. Think about your own family's assets. Maybe your family owns real estate, or a business that doesn't make much money, but the building and equipment are worth $1 million. Upon their death, you can inherit the $1 million business tax free, but if they own a home, stock, cash worth $500K on top of the $1 million business, then you will owe the government $275,000 cash! That's 55% of the value of the assets over $1 million! Do you have that kind of cash sitting around waiting to pay the estate tax?



Higher tax rates on savers and investors.

The capital gains tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 20 percent in 2011.

The dividends tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 39.6 percent in 2011.

These rates will rise another 3.8 percent in 2013.



Second Wave:

Obamacare

There are over twenty new or higher taxes in Obamacare. Several will first go into effect on January 1, 2011. They include:

The "Medicine Cabinet Tax"

Thanks to Obamacare, Americans will no longer be able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin).


The "Special Needs Kids Tax"

This provision of Obamacare imposes a cap on flexible spending accounts (FSAs) of $2500 (Currently, there is no federal government limit). There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children.

There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education.

Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, DC (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year.

Under tax rules, FSA dollars can not be used to pay for this type of special needs education.


The HSA (Health Savings Account) Withdrawal Tax Hike.

This provision of Obamacare increases the additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.


Third Wave:

The Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) and Employer Tax Hikes

When Americans prepare to file their tax returns in January of 2011, they'll be in for a nasty surprise-the AMT won't be held harmless, and many tax relief provisions will have expired.

The major items include:

The AMT will ensnare over 28 million families, up from 4 million last year.

According to the left-leaning Tax Policy Center, Congress' failure to index the AMT will lead to an explosion of AMT taxpaying families-rising from 4 million last year to 28.5 million. These families will have to calculate their tax burdens twice, and pay taxes at the higher level. The AMT wascreated in 1969 to ensnare a handful of taxpayers.

Small business expensing will be slashed and 50% expensing will disappear.

Small businesses can normally expense (rather than slowly-deduct, or "depreciate") equipment purchases up to $250,000.

This will be cut all the way down to $25,000. Larger businesses can currently expense half of their purchases of equipment.

In January of 2011, all of it will have to be "depreciated."


Taxes will be raised on all types of businesses.

There are literally scores of tax hikes on business that will take place. The biggest is the loss of the "research and experimentation tax credit," but there are many, many others. Combining high marginal tax rates with the loss of this tax relief will cost jobs.


Tax Benefits for Education and Teaching Reduced.

The deduction for tuition and fees will not be available.

Tax credits for education will be limited.

Teachers will no longer be able to deduct classroom expenses.

Coverdell Education Savings Accounts will be cut.

Employer-provided educational assistance is curtailed.

The student loan interest deduction will be disallowed for hundreds of thousands of families.


Charitable Contributions from IRAs no longer allowed.

Under current law, a retired person with an IRA can contribute up to $100,000 per year directly to a charity from their IRA.

This contribution also counts toward an annual "required minimum distribution." This ability will no longer be there.


PDF Version Read more: < ;


And worse yet?


Now, your insurance will be INCOME on your W2's!
One of the surprises we'll find come next year, is what follows - - a little "surprise" that 99% of us had no idea was included in the "new and improved" healthcare legislation . . . the dupes, er, dopes, who backed this administration will be astonished!

Starting in 2011, (next year folks), your W-2 tax form sent by your employer will be increased to show the value of whatever health insurance you are given by the company. It does not matter if that's a private concern or governmental body of some sort.

If you're retired? So what... your gross will go up by the amount of insurance you get.

You will be required to pay taxes on a large sum of money that you have never seen. Take your tax form you just finished and see what $15,000 or $20,000 additional gross does to your tax debt. That's what you'll pay next year.

For many, it also puts you into a new higher bracket so it's even worse.

This is how the government is going to buy insurance for the 15% that don't have insurance and it's only part of the tax increases.

Not believing this??? Here is a research of the summaries.....

On page 25 of 29: TITLE IX REVENUE PROVISIONS- SUBTITLE A: REVENUE OFFSET PROVISIONS-(sec. 9001, as modified by sec. 10901) Sec.9002 "requires employers to include in the W-2 form of each employee the aggregate cost of applicable employer sponsored group health coverage that is excludable from the employees gross income."

- Joan Pryde is the senior tax editor for the Kiplinger letters.
- Go to Kiplingers and read about 13 tax changes that could affect you. Number 3 is what is above.

THERE, NOW DON’T YOU FEEL STIMULATED?!

venom
11-05-2010, 12:15 PM
http://images.craigslist.org/3m23od3lb5Y55Z65P1ab5a613ab94cb681e71.jpg

smokin3000gt
11-05-2010, 12:33 PM
Not even mentioning all the other taxes we have or will have to pay, the 'death tax' is absolute horse shit!! Who the fuck are they that they get to clip anyone more then half of what doesn't belong to them in the first place?!

The WH
11-05-2010, 03:02 PM
The deduction for tuition and fees will not be available. what the fuck?

What piece of shit senator/congressman sat in a room and said ''You know what, while we're fucking over everyone else, let's get those college kids too!''

That's just mean-fucking-spirited.

Like a kid with a College of William and Mary Hooded sweatshirt cut them off in traffic that day and he/she said ''I'll get you, you little fucker! and your Abercrombie & Fitch messanger bag too!! HAHAHAHAH''

Whoever that was, is a piece of shit.

Itīs sad enough you have to pay INCREDIBLY too much to go to school...but now the smart yet poor fuckin' kid who's busting their ass working at McDonalds to pay for school can't deduct it from his taxes at the end of the year? (not too mention he just had to listen to some assclown with rich parents or some dumb fucking scholarship riding jock about not wanting Ice in their coke)

Man.... the middle class is getting a raw-Fucking-deal.

You might as well just raise tuition 50% and reintroduce Feudalism. Because that's what itīs going to be even MORE like in 5 years.

/rant

smokin3000gt
11-05-2010, 03:43 PM
what the fuck?

What piece of shit senator/congressman sat in a room and said ''You know what, while we're fucking over everyone else, let's get those college kids too!''

That's just mean-fucking-spirited.

Like a kid with a College of William and Mary Hooded sweatshirt cut them off in traffic that day and he/she said ''I'll get you, you little fucker! and your Abercrombie & Fitch messanger bag too!! HAHAHAHAH''

Whoever that was, is a piece of shit.

Itīs sad enough you have to pay INCREDIBLY too much to go to school...but now the smart yet poor fuckin' kid who's busting their ass working at McDonalds to pay for school can't deduct it from his taxes at the end of the year? (not too mention he just had to listen to some assclown with rich parents or some dumb fucking scholarship riding jock about not wanting Ice in their coke)

Man.... the middle class is getting a raw-Fucking-deal.

You might as well just raise tuition 50% and reintroduce Feudalism. Because that's what itīs going to be even MORE like in 5 years.

/rant

Yup.. this is pretty much the bullshit we're sick/afraid of. The scary part? None of us even have a CLUE about what else is in the Health care bill, 'stimulus' bill, or cap and tax bill. As scag bag pelosi says, "We have to pass the bill to see whats in it!"

The WH
11-05-2010, 03:52 PM
well, this is what they should have done with it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf2q66G3lmM