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Mtn.Steel
10-20-2010, 02:59 PM
I am sorry to start a new thread and it might be moved elsewhere, but I thought it would get the most discussion here. I think we can all agree that this fool is not only ruining the game, but clearly is a dictator that answers to no one! Who "hired" him? Who can "fire" him? What can we, as NFL fans (not just Steeler fans) do to remove this fool from his dunce perch? I appreciate all the threads bitching about him, but I want to know what I can do....we can do to oust this azzhole! This really must be stopped and there must be a way. Anybody got his email? If so, I would link Mark "Stinks" rant about a million times until he cannot receive any other mail. I hope this post is a call to action (what action? I am not sure) for the league fans to band together and get rid of this fool. I am going to start with a simple email to the NFL, which will surely be deleted post haste. Let`s be the solution to the problem now!

stlrtruck
10-20-2010, 03:10 PM
I believe it would prove to be very difficult to 'remove' the commissioner. It would have to be voted upon by the owners. That would be the only way to remove him (I believe). But do continue with the email and/or letters. He may one day get the message.

Mtn.Steel
10-20-2010, 03:11 PM
Here we go folks! I suggest intelligent discourse so as not to look like inbred Cleveland fans, but make sure to let him know that you want him gone in no uncertain terms. I hope we can get 1000 emails by days end!

Roger.Goodell2@nfl.net

Mtn.Steel
10-20-2010, 03:29 PM
My first of a thousand emails!

Rog,
I feel the need to send this communication as I believe that you are the single worst thing that has happened to the once great NFL. I really hope that you listen hard and long to not only long time fans like me, but much more importantly to the fine gentlemen that play the game and thus provide your paycheck.
You have stepped WAAAY over the line. Clearly, no one wants these men to be injured, but THEY realize and accept that is part of the risk for earning millions of dollars. You state that you care about the welfare of these men and that is a bold faced lie. You are happy to profit from the glorification of the violence, yet need to extract more money in fines for those very acts. Add in the fact that you slobber over the prospect of the millions the NFL will make by adding two more games...regardless of the players opinions and sentiments. Rest assured that I will wear out my keyboard trying to find ways to have you removed from your post. You may scoff at my seemingly feeble attempt, but nonetheless I want you gone and will be tireless in my efforts. My team allegance is irrelevant, but I will contact those owners and express my thoughts. Furthermore, I will not spend a dime in support of the NFL until your rejoiced departure. I have used what I consider to be reasonable, respectful language in this message. You would not want to hear what is in my head and my heart! Good luck in what, if any future you have, because I am quite sure that you have just peed in your own Wheaties...fool!
TH

Vis
10-20-2010, 03:57 PM
My first of a thousand emails!

Rog,
I feel the need to send this communication as I believe that you are the single worst thing that has happened to the once great NFL. I really hope that you listen hard and long to not only long time fans like me, but much more importantly to the fine gentlemen that play the game and thus provide your paycheck.
You have stepped WAAAY over the line. Clearly, no one wants these men to be injured, but THEY realize and accept that is part of the risk for earning millions of dollars. You state that you care about the welfare of these men and that is a bold faced lie. You are happy to profit from the glorification of the violence, yet need to extract more money in fines for those very acts. Add in the fact that you slobber over the prospect of the millions the NFL will make by adding two more games...regardless of the players opinions and sentiments. Rest assured that I will wear out my keyboard trying to find ways to have you removed from your post. You may scoff at my seemingly feeble attempt, but nonetheless I want you gone and will be tireless in my efforts. My team allegance is irrelevant, but I will contact those owners and express my thoughts. Furthermore, I will not spend a dime in support of the NFL until your rejoiced departure. I have used what I consider to be reasonable, respectful language in this message. You would not want to hear what is in my head and my heart! Good luck in what, if any future you have, because I am quite sure that you have just peed in your own Wheaties...fool!
TH

You say he is lying because he is happy to profit from the glorification of the violence (he's on salary not a percentage btw), but the thing you say is ruining the league is lessening the violence. Who wants the violence more, Goodell or you?

Mtn.Steel
10-20-2010, 04:08 PM
I do not really like the word "violence" related to football and I probably used it wrongly. Big hits ARE football and there are certainly some that deserve a fine. But as I stated, Rog has gone over the line. Neither of JH hits were fineable let alone more than Merriweathers hit. It is not about lessening it, just not punishing for bang bang plays. Yes, headhunters need to be reeled in, but you cannot tell me that Harrisons hits were as "intentioned" as Merriweathers! And while Rodg the Dodg does not personally profit, he is directly responsible for NFL profit. The funny part about your question is that no one is sure what Goodell wants! Big hits for DVD sales or fines to pad the profit from those very same hits. I will say that I want good football the way it has been played for many years. I respect your right to your opinion, but it sounds like you will be the first big fan of the Lingerie League.

Mtn.Steel
10-20-2010, 04:10 PM
Oh, and just for the record, can you explain just what his salary entails? It seems that you get a look at his paystub unlike the rest of us.

solardave
10-20-2010, 04:45 PM
You say he is lying because he is happy to profit from the glorification of the violence (he's on salary not a percentage btw), but the thing you say is ruining the league is lessening the violence. Who wants the violence more, Goodell or you?

Sure looks like a man on the take to me. HE destroyed evidence that the Patriots were cheating. Don't tell me there was no real proof. We never got the chance to see it. IF there WAS no proof,why destroy the papers? He should have been fired right there!! You assume he is an honorable manand he's not even close. If you don't like violence go watch Sesame Street or Mr. Rogers. The NFL is violent. I don't want to see headhunters and I really think any TRUE fan feels the same way. But in the same respect I don't want someone in charge saying this hit is OK but this one isn't when they are identical. He doesn't have to defend himself. That makes him above the law and that my friend is BULLSHIT!!!

stillers4me
10-20-2010, 04:55 PM
Feb. 12. 2010 (Bloomberg) -- Commissioner Roger Goodell (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Roger+Goodell&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1) received a five-year contract extension to lead the National Football League as it negotiates a new collective bargaining agreement with players under the shadow of a work stoppage next year.
Goodell, 50, received the extension during an owners’ meeting in December, according to an e-mailed release from the NFL today. His old contract was to expire in September 2011.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aoGDl1W3SPT8

cold-hard-steel
10-20-2010, 05:01 PM
VIS i have to tell you as nicely as i know how. Because you have the right to your opinion , does not make you right,and vice versa. You seem to be a scallywag. Football is violent! Broken bones happen all the time.Concussions happen all the time.Nothing was wrong with the hits made by Mr. Harrison. I don't blame him for wanting to call it quits. I just hope Goodell is on the sideline for a game and Harrison takes his pussy ass out. Incidental contact. Whatever happened to that rule.

Mtn.Steel
10-20-2010, 05:37 PM
And this is the response that I got...

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

roger.goodell2@nfl.net

Roger...you`re a pussy!

Burghfan58
10-20-2010, 06:00 PM
Yeah I got the same email retuned when I tried sending one. Dictators don't accept emails I guess.

RushHard34
10-20-2010, 06:42 PM
maybe its a bad email?

smokin3000gt
10-20-2010, 07:07 PM
VIS i have to tell you as nicely as i know how. Because you have the right to your opinion , does not make you right,and vice versa. You seem to be a scallywag. Football is violent! Broken bones happen all the time.Concussions happen all the time.Nothing was wrong with the hits made by Mr. Harrison. I don't blame him for wanting to call it quits. I just hope Goodell is on the sideline for a game and Harrison takes his pussy ass out. Incidental contact. Whatever happened to that rule.


Vis just likes to go against the grain and disagree/argue with popular opinion.

Chidi29
10-20-2010, 07:30 PM
Goodell isn't the only one in this camp. There's a lot of big-wigs that are on his side. Let's not put all the blame on him.

Are we suggesting getting rid of the entire group of people who are on that side of the coin? A giant firesale? Let's be realistic for a moment.

SirHulka
10-21-2010, 04:50 AM
If memory serves me correctly, I believe Rooney is on the committee that oversees Goodell. (Including ngotiating his contract)

stlrtruck
10-21-2010, 07:09 AM
Here's what I sent:



Commissioner Goodell, I am pleading with you to start considering your actions/decisions and the long term affects it has on the game, the players, the teams, and the fans.

Your recent knee jerk reaction to some devastating yet legal hits is just another nail in the coffin to what many consider pure football, and football at it's best.

You talk about player safety and the integrity of the league. Over the course of your tenure as commissioner, the new 'player safety' rules have only handcuffed the defense from playing the game effectively while along the opposite lines allowed offensive players to take full advantage of water down defenses.

Speaking specifically towards the new devastating hits rules, it is obvious that you and those who helped you reach this decision have minimal understanding about a continuation of play and how it very well can lead to what looks like a violent, illegal, and devastating hit.

From a fan's persepective on a few hits, here's what I saw. First the Harrison hit on Cribbs. As Harrison is trailing the play a Steelers player has Cribbs by the lower leg/foot. Cribbs is still upright and lunging forward. As Harrison approaches, Cribbs crouches down with what seems to be another attempt to lunge himself forward. Harrison then lowers his own body to make a hit to prevent the lunge forward. Both players lowered themselves which is fundamentally sound football, in all regards. The result, unfortunately, was a devastating but legal hit. Please tell me Mr. Goodell would you prefer that the defensive player allow the offensive player to stretch for more yardage?

Play two, Robinson's hit on DeSean Jackson. This play was a quick hitting, and powerful play. But legal and definitely not fine worthy. Jackson was hit in the chest and the result of a continuation of the play ended in a helmet to helmet hit. As defensive players, you are taught to dislodge the player from the ball. It doesn't get any more text book than that.

Play three, Harrison's hit on Massaquoi. Both players were on a collision course before the ball arrives. It's the nature of football to get to the ball before the other guy. As the WR comes across the ball hits his hands, he bobbles it. The LB, unlike you and your office who can take hours to watch quick hitting plays in slow motion, has a split second to make a decision - hit or no hit. The WR in this play actually continues to make a play for the ball as if he could catch it and make a play. Harrison again dislodged the player from the ball. However if you watch the play in your ultra slow motion abilities Massaquoi looks up as he goes to catch the ball for the second time, sees Harrison barreling down on him, and what does he do? He begins to cradle up, lowering his body more in alignment with Harrisons, creating what looks like a violent hit. Had the WR maintained his body positioned, the hit would have been more in the so-called 'strike zone' and no where near the impact it had.

Play four. Merriweather's hit on Todd Heap at mid-field. Truly an illegal, inappropriate hit, and the only one of the weekend that deserved a fine.

Mr. Anderson commented that he doesn't buy in to the fact that fan's enjoy these hits that were seen last weekend. Maybe Mr. Anderson, yourself, and the rest of the NFL office should check the pulse of the fan. What we want is definitely not the NFL you are presenting! Yes we want legal, hard hitting, violent, and devastating hits (even the ones that result in injury, not that we desire to see injuries, just that we appreciate great defense).
You Mr. Goodell and your office continue to make knee jerk reactions without truly understanding the game of football. While I understand that player safety is important, so too is the integrity of the game (not your office, THE GAME). Please step down and/or stop the pansification of the National Football League.

Sincerely,

CPanther95
10-21-2010, 07:25 AM
I would try tomato juice.

Vis
10-21-2010, 11:28 AM
Vis just likes to go against the grain and disagree/argue with popular opinion.

No, I deal with people with brain injuries on a regular basis. Saying concussions happen all the time is like saying cancer happens all the time. I don't see the enjoyment in watching a player get a brain injury just because he wear's a different jersey.

SteelCityMan786
10-21-2010, 11:59 AM
Usually will come down to the owners as they voted him to be commissioner and hold say over whether or not he gets a contract.

SteeleReign
10-21-2010, 12:13 PM
I don't get the Goodell bashing...someone tell me what exactly he is doing to "ruin" the game? If anything, it's more popular than it has ever been. I'm not saying I would join the Roger fan club, but it seems to me that he's doing the job that he was hired to do.

CPanther95
10-21-2010, 12:42 PM
You ruin the game when you start fining/suspending players for legal hits that are judged too devastating. And that is determined, at the sole discretion of the league office. Now you have 32 teams and hundreds of players that will be scaling back their hits, or not, having no idea where that mythical fine line is actually drawn.

How can that not ruin the game?

SteeleReign
10-21-2010, 01:01 PM
You ruin the game when you start fining/suspending players for legal hits that are judged too devastating. And that is determined, at the sole discretion of the league office. Now you have 32 teams and hundreds of players that will be scaling back their hits, or not, having no idea where that mythical fine line is actually drawn.

How can that not ruin the game?

The hits in question are not considered legal by the current standards. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Harrison's intent was to be cheap or dirty, and his hit on Massaquoi was marginally "illegal." The biggest issue I see is that many of these plays are bang-bang plays and don't allow for instantaneous decisions to be made by the defensive player. If a receiver drops his head to avoid a big hit & thereby causes the illegal contact, how then will the rule be interpreted?

I'd like to see an NFL official go through game tape of all games through Monday & determine how many suspensions would be handed out. If this rule is fully enforced we could see an unprecedented number of suspensions this year.

All that being said, to say that Goodell is ruining the league is ludicrous.

CPanther95
10-21-2010, 01:10 PM
The hits in question are not considered legal by the current standards. Don't get me wrong - I don't think Harrison's intent was to be cheap or dirty, and his hit on Massaquoi was marginally "illegal." The biggest issue I see is that many of these plays are bang-bang plays and don't allow for instantaneous decisions to be made by the defensive player. If a receiver drops his head to avoid a big hit & thereby causes the illegal contact, how then will the rule be interpreted?

Dropping the head is exactly what Massaquoi did. He is responsible for the helmet-to-helmet contact, so that would not be a Harrison illegal play. A fine is suppossed to effect a change in behavior, but a player can't control how a WR is going to react just before impact - so the fine is pointless.

But even if you want to make excuses for the league on that hit, how does your claim justify the Montgomery hit? There was not even any inadvertent helmet-to-helmet contact. There's no question from any clear thinking objective perspective that Montgomery was fined for a 100% legal hit. It was simply too devastating.

SteeleReign
10-21-2010, 02:37 PM
I agree. That's why these hits will continue to be handled on a case-by-case basis, and therein lies the problem. It will be near impossible to please all parties involved because the hit-ee's team & fans will consider the hit illegal (i.e. Ben Watson calling out Harrison), whereas the hit-ter's team & fans will consider the hit to be legal (i.e. Mike Tomlin & most fans on this board). None of this changes the fact that Goodell has an obligation to ensure the safety of the players. Despite what you may think his motives are he still must make an attempt to protect these guys.

I just have a problem with the neanderthal thinking that Goodell is out to get the Steelers and that he's a moron & all that ridiculous crap.

fansince'76
10-21-2010, 02:51 PM
I don't get the Goodell bashing...someone tell me what exactly he is doing to "ruin" the game?

In a nutshell? Knee-jerk management of the league dictated largely by media sentiment.

"Gee, there was an anomalous rash of concussion-inducing hits this past weekend, and the Peter Kings of the world are all squawking about it! This calls for a change of policy in the middle of the season!"

stlrtruck
10-21-2010, 02:51 PM
I just have a problem with the neanderthal thinking that Goodell is out to get the Steelers and that he's a moron & all that ridiculous crap.

You're right he's not out to get the Steelers. He's out to ruin the league. But he is a moron and a pile of ridiculous crap.

SteeleReign
10-21-2010, 03:19 PM
Right. Sure he is. I can assure you that if this rule has disastrous circumstances for league appeal it will be tweaked to suit. Does that imply that much of this decision is based on "media sentiment"? Of course it does! It's a business and if there is anything that negatively affects it's product they will make changes accordingly. Seriously, what do you expect? Do you think any other commissioner, that knows what he's doing, would ignore this?

But, to suggest that Goodell is trying to ruin the league is pathetically stupid.

fansince'76
10-21-2010, 03:25 PM
Right. Sure he is. I can assure you that if this rule has disastrous circumstances for league appeal it will be tweaked to suit. Does that imply that much of this decision is based on "media sentiment"? Of course it does! It's a business and if there is anything that negatively affects it's product they will make changes accordingly. Seriously, what do you expect? Do you think any other commissioner, that knows what he's doing, would ignore this?

But, to suggest that Goodell is trying to ruin the league is pathetically stupid.

I don't think he's trying to do so consciously, I just think he's incompetent. Personally, I think enacting a change, in the middle of a season, on the spur of the moment, threatening suspensions and fines on the basis of such ambiguous criteria as "devastating hits" is pathetically stupid.

stlrtruck
10-21-2010, 03:27 PM
Right. Sure he is. I can assure you that if this rule has disastrous circumstances for league appeal it will be tweaked to suit. Does that imply that much of this decision is based on "media sentiment"? Of course it does! It's a business and if there is anything that negatively affects it's product they will make changes accordingly. Seriously, what do you expect? Do you think any other commissioner, that knows what he's doing, would ignore this?

But, to suggest that Goodell is trying to ruin the league is pathetically stupid.

Making knee jerk reactions to a week where a few players, is not the path in which to make change.

If the commissioner was one overseeing the NFL then he would understand that injuries are part of the game. You can do what you want but the moment you start saying it's too devastating - you've changed the league!

And if you enjoy the high profile offense league vs. the demolition defense league. Then so beit, but what I see is that he is ruining the league.

CPanther95
10-21-2010, 03:45 PM
I agree. That's why these hits will continue to be handled on a case-by-case basis, and therein lies the problem. It will be near impossible to please all parties involved because the hit-ee's team & fans will consider the hit illegal (i.e. Ben Watson calling out Harrison), whereas the hit-ter's team & fans will consider the hit to be legal (i.e. Mike Tomlin & most fans on this board). None of this changes the fact that Goodell has an obligation to ensure the safety of the players. Despite what you may think his motives are he still must make an attempt to protect these guys.

I just have a problem with the neanderthal thinking that Goodell is out to get the Steelers and that he's a moron & all that ridiculous crap.

You're talking in circles.

Nobody is talking about the perception of the hittee and hitter's fans - or fining for illegal hits.

The issue is fining for legal hits. No matter what his motives, that's what is going to screw things up.

cold-hard-steel
10-21-2010, 04:19 PM
I already ask this question some time back. I think H.T.G. knows someone who has a friend,that knows a guy,who has a friend,whos wife knows a guy that could take care of the situation permanently. LOL.

SteeleReign
10-21-2010, 04:27 PM
You're talking in circles.

Nobody is talking about the perception of the hittee and hitter's fans - or fining for illegal hits.

The issue is fining for legal hits. No matter what his motives, that's what is going to screw things up.

I'm not talking in circles. You claim the hits are legal. By what standard? Your's? The league is reviewing these hits, case-by-case, to determine if they are legal or not. If there is a fine and/or suspension then they've deemed it illegal. Simple as that.

What screws things up is that many on these boards, and likely other team's boards too, will always argue with the decision based on their own prejudices.

SteeleReign
10-21-2010, 04:28 PM
Making knee jerk reactions to a week where a few players, is not the path in which to make change.

If the commissioner was one overseeing the NFL then he would understand that injuries are part of the game. You can do what you want but the moment you start saying it's too devastating - you've changed the league!

And if you enjoy the high profile offense league vs. the demolition defense league. Then so beit, but what I see is that he is ruining the league.

It doesn't matter when the decision is made if it's the right decision. When would be a good time to make that decision? After someone is killed on the field?

GodfatherofSoul
10-21-2010, 04:33 PM
I'm not talking in circles. You claim the hits are legal. By what standard? Your's? The league is reviewing these hits, case-by-case, to determine if they are legal or not. If there is a fine and/or suspension then they've deemed it illegal. Simple as that.

What screws things up is that many on these boards, and likely other team's boards too, will always argue with the decision based on their own prejudices.

What the league says goes? Goodell isn't your daddy. By that logic, if you're arrested for a crime you're guilty. Challenges exist for a reason. The refs didn't make the call and were right on top of the hit. This wasn't a crotch grab away from the ball. We've all seen the footage any there's nothing to indicate by the league rules that the hit was illegal (besides using an ambiguous interpretation of the rules). Goodell is a media-whoring punk and he made a reactionary ex post facto ruling. Hitting someone as hard as you can is now against the rules if you want to believe that Goodell's word is law.

GodfatherofSoul
10-21-2010, 04:34 PM
I already ask this question some time back. I think H.T.G. knows someone who has a friend,that knows a guy,who has a friend,whos wife knows a guy that could take care of the situation permanently. LOL.

I know a guy who can get me a guy to dig a hole. Sssssssssh!

cold-hard-steel
10-21-2010, 04:38 PM
I'm not talking in circles. You claim the hits are legal. By what standard? Your's?

The hits were legal because there were no flags called on the play.If any fines should be levied it should be on the zebras. Thay saw nothing wrong with the play,and the game concluded.Then Dickwell comes in and implies wrong doing? Give me a freakin break.There is a turd in the punchbowl,i repeat,there is a turd in the punchbowl.

fansince'76
10-21-2010, 04:47 PM
It doesn't matter when the decision is made if it's the right decision. When would be a good time to make that decision? After someone is killed on the field?

Who determines the decision is "right?" As far as someone getting killed on the field is concerned, that, unfortunately, could happen (thankfully those incidents are very, very, very rare), and all the players have an understanding that could happen. That's one of the reasons the players are so well compensated. It's a high risk/high reward business. A retroactive fine and/or suspension after the fact won't change it, either.

As I said in another thread, if you truly want to completely eliminate the possibility of head injuries, you might as well put flags on the offensive skill players, eliminate O-linemen and D-linemen, institute a "5-Mississippi rule" for the QBs on pass plays and make contact of any kind illegal.

Or a more practical approach would be to shitcan the idea of an 18-game season (for starters), and force the players to use the "dorky" (and safer) equipment, and it is out there. That is, if the league is really serious about reducing these injuries and IMO, they're not. As far as I'm concerned, the latest fines were just another PR move to get the media to shut the hell up about the whole thing as quickly as possible. "The reprobates have been punished, now let's move on." THAT is my biggest issue with this whole thing - the hypocrisy of it.

I would imagine Goodell is happy that the media's focus is finally off of Favre's schlong, though.

cold-hard-steel
10-21-2010, 05:07 PM
It is a touchy area i understand that. This game has not been just started recently. Its been going on for longer than most of us,if not all of us were even around.They have made rule changes to make the game more exciting through the years,and make it safer also.There has always been helmet to helmet contact since the game began,and there always will be too! The only way to prevent it is to just outlaw the game period. Even if you would go to 2 hand touch,4 hand touch,or flags,you would still have the same injuries.It is just the nature of the game.You don't want to be a soldier,then don't join the military.You don't want to ge injured or die in a car crash,then don't join NASCAR. If you don't want to get stabbed by a broken bat,or get klunked upside the noggin,then don't play baseball. You don't want to fall to your death,then don't go rock climbing,or hang gliding for that matter. You don't want to die in a plane crash,then take the bus.Guess what? You could still die or get injured. Let the chosen fields be chosen by what the individual wishes to do.

cold-hard-steel
10-21-2010, 05:23 PM
This could go on and on. You can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.You don't want to get hit playing football,be a cheerleader,well you could still get hit. Just be a coach then,well again,you still could take a shot now and again.Maybe you could be a ref,again,you could take that life altering hit.Maybe you could be a photographer on the sideline,well,i don't think that is too safe either,oh well.

CPanther95
10-21-2010, 06:05 PM
I'm not talking in circles. You claim the hits are legal. By what standard? Your's? The league is reviewing these hits, case-by-case, to determine if they are legal or not. If there is a fine and/or suspension then they've deemed it illegal. Simple as that.

What screws things up is that many on these boards, and likely other team's boards too, will always argue with the decision based on their own prejudices.

Wrong again.

By what standard?: The leagues own rules.

Because the NFL is not a democracy, you're right that if the NFL rules it illegal, it is automatically illegal. But the league has never said that Robinson's hit violated any rule on the books. It has only violated their new standard for a "devastating hit". If they ever clearly define that standard, then I have no problem.

SteeleReign
10-21-2010, 06:11 PM
I'm not talking in circles. You claim the hits are legal. By what standard? Your's?

The hits were legal because there were no flags called on the play.If any fines should be levied it should be on the zebras. Thay saw nothing wrong with the play,and the game concluded.Then Dickwell comes in and implies wrong doing? Give me a freakin break.There is a turd in the punchbowl,i repeat,there is a turd in the punchbowl.

Whether or not a flag was thrown is beside the point. The NFL has been reviewing these hits after the games for years now & handing out fines. That hasn't changed. Yes, the fines were steeper & suspensions are threatended now, but that's just an amplification of the current rules - not a new set of rules.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing that Harrison's hit was legal or illegal - I actually think it was a legal hit. I'm simply saying that the new focus on protecting players from head trauma is a good thing & not some ridiculous attempt by Goodell to ruin the league as many suggest.

SteeleReign
10-21-2010, 06:15 PM
Wrong again.

By what standard?: The leagues own rules.

Because the NFL is not a democracy, you're right that if the NFL rules it illegal, it is automatically illegal. But the league has never said that Robinson's hit violated any rule on the books. It has only violated their new standard for a "devastating hit". If they ever clearly define that standard, then I have no problem.

I understand what you're saying & agree. My only issue is with those that think the NFL is being ridiculous in trying to implement SOMETHING. Look - this whole thing may backfire. They may find themselves throwing out so many defensive players that teams won't be able to field 11 guys on D. It may need adjusted or scrapped. But, Goodell is running a business...maybe the most powerful business in America and he can't afford to lose advertising dollars, corporate support, etc. I'm not kidding myself to believe that ol' Rog is hoping to keep these guys mentally sound for the 2040 NFL Christmas Party. He's protecting his business from losing money. Period.

SteeleReign
10-21-2010, 06:19 PM
Who determines the decision is "right?" As far as someone getting killed on the field is concerned, that, unfortunately, could happen (thankfully those incidents are very, very, very rare), and all the players have an understanding that could happen. That's one of the reasons the players are so well compensated. It's a high risk/high reward business. A retroactive fine and/or suspension after the fact won't change it, either.

As I said in another thread, if you truly want to completely eliminate the possibility of head injuries, you might as well put flags on the offensive skill players, eliminate O-linemen and D-linemen, institute a "5-Mississippi rule" for the QBs on pass plays and make contact of any kind illegal.

Or a more practical approach would be to shitcan the idea of an 18-game season (for starters), and force the players to use the "dorky" (and safer) equipment, and it is out there. That is, if the league is really serious about reducing these injuries and IMO, they're not. As far as I'm concerned, the latest fines were just another PR move to get the media to shut the hell up about the whole thing as quickly as possible. "The reprobates have been punished, now let's move on." THAT is my biggest issue with this whole thing - the hypocrisy of it.

I would imagine Goodell is happy that the media's focus is finally off of Favre's schlong, though.

I can't argue with any of this. I don't suggest Goodell is Mr. Rogers...he could be a cold conniving little snake for all I know. But what I do know is that he's not trying to ruin the league and he's not trying to screw the Steelers. That's what I'm tired of hearing.

CPanther95
10-21-2010, 06:29 PM
I understand what you're saying & agree. My only issue is with those that think the NFL is being ridiculous in trying to implement SOMETHING. Look - this whole thing may backfire. They may find themselves throwing out so many defensive players that teams won't be able to field 11 guys on D. It may need adjusted or scrapped. But, Goodell is running a business...maybe the most powerful business in America and he can't afford to lose advertising dollars, corporate support, etc. I'm not kidding myself to believe that ol' Rog is hoping to keep these guys mentally sound for the 2040 NFL Christmas Party. He's protecting his business from losing money. Period.

I don't disagree with that. If they feel compelled to address the concussions, fine.

But the Steelers, along with a shrinking group of other teams, take pride in playing good, tough, physical defense. Those are the teams that are going to disproportionately affected as long as the standard remains vague because apparently we are already "over the new line". We are the teams that will be testing that new threshold and getting burned when we cross it, so I just want it clearly defined.

fansince'76
10-21-2010, 06:32 PM
I can't argue with any of this. I don't suggest Goodell is Mr. Rogers...he could be a cold conniving little snake for all I know. But what I do know is that he's not trying to ruin the league and he's not trying to screw the Steelers. That's what I'm tired of hearing.

I'm no fan of Goodell (my sig is proof of that :chuckle:), but I agree, I don't think he has it out for the Steelers or is purposefully screwing up the league.

SteeleReign
10-21-2010, 06:35 PM
I don't disagree with that. If they feel compelled to address the concussions, fine.

But the Steelers, along with a shrinking group of other teams, take pride in playing good, tough, physical defense. Those are the teams that are going to disproportionately affected as long as the standard remains vague because apparently we are already "over the new line". We are the teams that will be testing that new threshold and getting burned when we cross it, so I just want it clearly defined.

Maybe. But, I think you may be overstating the rule's affect on our D. There have only been 3 calls, that I recall, that the NFL has reviewed from our games. Of course, all three were James. But, James's impact goes FAR beyond devastating hits & he will still be a menace on the field. All of our players fly to the ball & make solid hard-hitting tackles that will take their toll on the other team.

CPanther95
10-21-2010, 06:36 PM
I'm no fan of Goodell (my sig is proof of that :chuckle:), but I agree, I don't think he has it out for the Steelers or is purposefully screwing up the league.

I don't think it's purposeful either.

But I'll reserve judgment as to whether he is inadvertently screwing up the league when I see what kind of hits are drawing a fine or suspension. After this first round, I'm not that hopeful.

JayC
10-21-2010, 06:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyNy-TkDGB0

i will miss hits like this. call it dirty but i like it

silver & black
10-21-2010, 09:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyNy-TkDGB0

i will miss hits like this. call it dirty but i like it

There was nothing dirty about that hit. Clark hit him in the chest with a shoulder... perfectly legal hit...... at least it used to be.

stlrtruck
10-21-2010, 10:45 PM
There was nothing dirty about that hit. Clark hit him in the chest with a shoulder... perfectly legal hit...... at least it used to be.

Nope, Clark got flagged for that hit. Although I consider it a :BS: flag, it was still one of the most awesomist hits I've seen!

smokin3000gt
10-21-2010, 10:47 PM
You know how the NFL is these days. If it looks owie, throw a flag.

stlrtruck
10-21-2010, 10:48 PM
I'm simply saying that the new focus on protecting players from head trauma is a good thing & not some ridiculous attempt by Goodell to ruin the league as many suggest.

As I stated in another thread, then train the officials to be consistent in the NFL Rule Book, train them to know and understand the rules. That way during each and every game there will be no question about what is a penalty and what is not. With out that, then it is impossible to know for sure as every game sees different penalties called whether it be holding, pass interference and/or roughing the passer.

SteeleReign
10-22-2010, 07:22 AM
As I stated in another thread, then train the officials to be consistent in the NFL Rule Book, train them to know and understand the rules. That way during each and every game there will be no question about what is a penalty and what is not. With out that, then it is impossible to know for sure as every game sees different penalties called whether it be holding, pass interference and/or roughing the passer.

Can't argue with that, but making those calls at the time is very difficult due to the speed of the game. The league may be telling the refs to swallow their whistles so as not to affect the outcome in a big way, unless the hit is flagrant. Then, they'll review the game tapes later and hand out fines/suspensions.

CPanther95
10-22-2010, 07:23 AM
Step 1 to removing Goodell: Piss off the Rooneys.

stlrtruck
10-22-2010, 08:18 AM
Can't argue with that, but making those calls at the time is very difficult due to the speed of the game. The league may be telling the refs to swallow their whistles so as not to affect the outcome in a big way, unless the hit is flagrant. Then, they'll review the game tapes later and hand out fines/suspensions.

Its easy to make the calls in slo-motion, but difficult to play the game that way. I don't think players should be fined/suspended for plays reviewed in slow motion. Use those videos to train and improve the situation but dont give a pass on the officials who are watching the play at a fast speed, watching a play that is bang-bang, for not making a call but for the player who is playing the game at that same bang-bang fast speed they are suppose to be able to determine all these things on the field.

I say it's easier for the officials to see the hit on the field and determine if it's illegal or not vs. a player who is playing the game relying on instinct and years of practice.

Thusly I say make the officials a full time job and you'd probably see a bunch of zebras who have a better understanding of the game rules overall and able to call cleaner games (vs. one call it this way and another call it taht way).

SteeleReign
10-22-2010, 08:26 AM
Its easy to make the calls in slo-motion, but difficult to play the game that way. I don't think players should be fined/suspended for plays reviewed in slow motion. Use those videos to train and improve the situation but dont give a pass on the officials who are watching the play at a fast speed, watching a play that is bang-bang, for not making a call but for the player who is playing the game at that same bang-bang fast speed they are suppose to be able to determine all these things on the field.

I say it's easier for the officials to see the hit on the field and determine if it's illegal or not vs. a player who is playing the game relying on instinct and years of practice.

Thusly I say make the officials a full time job and you'd probably see a bunch of zebras who have a better understanding of the game rules overall and able to call cleaner games (vs. one call it this way and another call it taht way).

Hmmm...that's a good point. If the officials are unable to make a call based on the speed of the game then it's damn near impossible for a player to make adjustments at that speed. The NFL has a real sticky one on their hands here...good luck with that!

Vis
10-22-2010, 08:29 AM
Its easy to make the calls in slo-motion, but difficult to play the game that way. I don't think players should be fined/suspended for plays reviewed in slow motion. Use those videos to train and improve the situation but dont give a pass on the officials who are watching the play at a fast speed, watching a play that is bang-bang, for not making a call but for the player who is playing the game at that same bang-bang fast speed they are suppose to be able to determine all these things on the field.

I say it's easier for the officials to see the hit on the field and determine if it's illegal or not vs. a player who is playing the game relying on instinct and years of practice.

Thusly I say make the officials a full time job and you'd probably see a bunch of zebras who have a better understanding of the game rules overall and able to call cleaner games (vs. one call it this way and another call it taht way).

But if the goal is to lessen the chance of concussions or a player never getting back up, how would you do it? This may not be the best way but it is an attempt. I can see disagreements about methods but I don't get those who minimize the risk. TBI's are no joke. And Harrison's comment about a player who is "sleeping" isn't injured was about the most ignorant thing I've seen a player quoted as saying.

stlrtruck
10-22-2010, 08:32 AM
Hmmm...that's a good point. If the officials are unable to make a call based on the speed of the game then it's damn near impossible for a player to make adjustments at that speed. The NFL has a real sticky one on their hands here...good luck with that!

Thanks. And this has been my MO since they started talking about this. It's a sticky situation putting all the responsibility on the defensive player to calculate all this but not instructing officials how to be better.

I just watched the video from Ray Anderson on legal vs. illegal. And while the NFL maintains they aren't changing the rules, they are making it difficlut to interpret the rule. In one voice he stated that leading with the helmet (I understand), elbow (raises an eyebrow), or shoulder (really, there is a pad there and we are taught to drive through the player with the shoulder) is illegal (I'm guessing he means in regards to hits to the head). He even showed the hit on DeSean Jackson as being illegal because the player didn't have a chance to 'catch' the ball. As a defensive player you don't want to give him a chance to catch the ball. I can only guess that it's illegal because the hit was too high (chest) that ended up through a continuation of the play being a head shot. Then he showed a play by Ray Lewis hitting a jets WR and said it was legal because of where the hit happened. Anderson went on to say that even if you attempt to hit a player and it winds up being an illegal hit you will still be responsible. That last statement is the most idiotic thing I've heard come from the NFL office. Now they are basically saying that the defensive player is now responsible for any movement the offensive player makes and therefore must change their attack to prevent a dangerous and illegal hit. ZERO responsibility on the offensive player, and a complete lack of knowledge about the way a contact sport works.

stlrtruck
10-22-2010, 08:40 AM
But if the goal is to lessen the chance of concussions or a player never getting back up, how would you do it? This may not be the best way but it is an attempt. I can see disagreements about methods but I don't get those who minimize the risk. TBI's are no joke. And Harrison's comment about a player who is "sleeping" isn't injured was about the most ignorant thing I've seen a player quoted as saying.

As I stated above, train the officials to have a better understanding of the game. Put some responsibilty on the offensive player. For example, have the officials blow the whistle earlier. Don't allow the play to continue if the player is stopped (but that takes away from those players who cane extend plays). Teach WRs to stop if they are in no position to make a play on the ball (I know it sounds unfair to tell a player to stop his motion, but that's exactly what they are telling defensive players to do).

I don't have a complete answer. Either way you make the changes it hinders one side of the ball or the other (in regards to the play of the game). I don't want to see injuries any more than the next fan, but I also dont' want the game minimized to strictly an offensive advantage because the NFL officials think it's too violent.

There is a risk to the game, the players know this, so let them play and stop trying to eliminate all of the risk.

I have no problem with player safety as long as it's about safety and not some knee jerk reaction to multiple concussions on one Sunday afternoon. If these plays took place over the course of the season instead of one weekend, there probably wouldn't be a thing done about it.