NFL to announce suspensions for hits

[tube517]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5701512

Flags to be handed out to every team soon. Let Flag Football begin. Put skirts on all the players too.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Just watch, Harrison will be the 1st one to be suspended :coffee:

[O'Malley]

Well taking our Qb away for four games did not work might as well try to take some of our defenders away and see how we handle that. Goddell needs to go and now! How do we go about getting rid of this media whore?

[SteelerFanInStl]

Pretty soon we're going to regularly be seeing scores like 52 - 45 because there won't be any defense. It's pathetic.

[steelpride12]

Pussy league.

[O'Malley]

Pussy league.

Pussy country! Canadian Football is now the hardest hitting game on turf!

[Borski]

this is ridiculous. According to ESPN they will outlaw quote "Devastating hits" and "Headshots" I can understand headshots, but they are purposefully leaving "Devastating hits" open to interpretation so they can apply it as they see fit. I give ESPN credit though, in that segment 3 guys where adamantly against this and only Adam Sheftner supported it.

[X-Terminator]

Thank God the Pittsburgh Power start up next year. Maybe then I'll be able to see some real football then, because I sure as hell won't be seeing it in the NFL anymore.

Pussies, the lot of them.

[smokin3000gt]

At what point does the NFL ban weight lifting?

[Butch]

At what point does the NFL ban weight lifting?

Right after they force all the defenders and Hines Ward to take sensitivity training classes. Peyton and tom will be there to display their dresses as well.

[GodfatherofSoul]

They'd better have a damned lock-tight definition of what is or isn't legal. I watched that Eagles/Falcons hit and the player definitely lowered his head (which was probably more of a duck, but...). I don't want to see another subjective call-it-when-we-want-to rule on the books.

[cold-hard-steel]

Well our boy Stuffed 2 in the same game.If you have the ball,and you want to score,we have to stop you. Any means available to our defense we must stop you. That is what we get paid for. How can you change that? This ain't football anymore.

[Galax Steeler]

All I can say is bullshit let them play ball.

[Aussie_steeler]

This is about Non football players making football decisions................Matt Millen

Matt Millen hit the nail on the head with this line.

Must say that I dont like Steve Young 2.0 ( you know, the old version that no longer has a nut sack)

[HometownGal]

Fire the pussy.



http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs625.snc3/27539_105925016125171_9488_n.jpg

[SirHulka]

If you have the ball,and you want to score,we have to stop you. Any means available to our defense we must stop you. This ain't football anymore.
So that means baseball bats can be used?

[TheRuneMeister]

You measure the players on their speed, agility and strength when they are drafted into the league. Then once they are in the league you are telling them to slow down so you are not hitting as hard, don't be agile and surprise opponents, and don't use your strength when tackling. It just doesn't add up. The league needs to make up its mind, and perhaps ban the combine a.s.a.p., and then ban all weight lifting and speed training related activities.
They make a good point at the end of the video. Players are not forced to do this. It is a risk/reward situation. They are taking the gamble and hoping to come out rich and injury free. Not everyone wins at the blackjack table.

[SirHulka]

The fact remains that Harrison lead with his head. That's called spearing. And it's illegal on a helmet to helmet hit. I have no problem with hard hitting. But in neither case did Harrison have his hands in a tackle position. He wasn't trying to tackle, he was trying to hurt. He said so himself. Football is supposed to be a game of tackling and blocking, not hitting.

[steeldawg]

They should put all the players in those giant sumo suits.It will no longer football but it will finally be the joke that it is becoming.

[X-Terminator]

The fact remains that Harrison lead with his head. That's called spearing. And it's illegal on a helmet to helmet hit. I have no problem with hard hitting. But in neither case did Harrison have his hands in a tackle position. He wasn't trying to tackle, he was trying to hurt. He said so himself. Football is supposed to be a game of tackling and blocking, not hitting.

Peyton Hillis disagrees with you, at least on the Cribbs hit.

And since when has hitting not been part of the game? How long have you been watching football?? Hitting has been around as long as the sport itself. And now you and Roger Goodell want it legislated out of the game? See, this is what I mean by this nation becoming a bunch of wusses. You would have NEVER heard this kind of outcry 25 years ago. If a prime Ronnie Lott played today, he'd get fined every week. Imagine the fines and suspended handed out to the 1970s Steelers, Raiders, Vikings and Dolphins? The league wouldn't need Sunday Ticket to make money.

Great, my two favorite sports ruined by the "soccer mom" generation. Thanks Roger and Gary, with a special thanks to ESPN. :mad2:

[fansince'76]

You would have NEVER heard this kind of outcry 25 years ago. If a prime Ronnie Lott played today, he'd get fined every week. Imagine the fines and suspended handed out to the 1970s Steelers, Raiders, Vikings and Dolphins? The league wouldn't need Sunday Ticket to make money.

But, but, but, players are bigger, faster and stronger today. :blah: :blah: :blah: (As if they were a bunch of 98-pound geriatric midgets back in the day)

[SirHulka]

Peyton Hillis disagrees with you, at least on the Cribbs hit.

And since when has hitting not been part of the game? How long have you been watching football?? Hitting has been around as long as the sport itself. And now you and Roger Goodell want it legislated out of the game? See, this is what I mean by this nation becoming a bunch of wusses. You would have NEVER heard this kind of outcry 25 years ago. If a prime Ronnie Lott played today, he'd get fined every week. Imagine the fines and suspended handed out to the 1970s Steelers, Raiders, Vikings and Dolphins? The league wouldn't need Sunday Ticket to make money.

Great, my two favorite sports ruined by the "soccer mom" generation. Thanks Roger and Gary, with a special thanks to ESPN. :mad2:
I never said anything about hitting. And you forgot one other major difference between the players of 25 years ago and today. 25 years ago, the players knew HOW TO TACKLE. Nowadays, all they know is hitting.
I don't want hitting legislated out of the game, but I would like to see a player ejected and suspended when he leads with his head, and hits helmet-to-helmet.

And by the way, I've been watching football since the 50's. And you?

[TheRuneMeister]

The fact remains that Harrison lead with his head.
This is a fast paced game. Harrison was attempting to time the hit when Woodley tackles Cribbs from behind and slows him down. This causes the helmet to helmet contact, and would be a difficult element to remove from football. He likely wouldn't have hit the helmet at all had Woodley not held on to Cribbs.
To avoid it you would have to slow down the game to an extreme.

Just remember before passing judgement: The game is extremely fast paced, and you can not avoid a hit such as that without purposely slowing down the entire game.

[X-Terminator]

I never said anything about hitting. And you forgot one other major difference between the players of 25 years ago and today. 25 years ago, the players knew HOW TO TACKLE. Nowadays, all they know is hitting.
I don't want hitting legislated out of the game, but I would like to see a player ejected and suspended when he leads with his head, and hits helmet-to-helmet.

And by the way, I've been watching football since the 50's. And you?

That was a facetious comment. I know you've been watching the game for a long time.

Anyway, I agree that players today don't know how to tackle, but that's because fundamentals are lacking all across the board. Having said that, players are taught to tackle through the player with their facemask hitting their chest. When you do that, sometimes there will be helmet-to-helmet contact. Even if you hit a guy with your shoulder first, you may still hit helmet-to-helmet. What the league is basically saying is if you follow all the fundamentals of tackling, and you still deliver a "devastating hit" that injures another player, you will be subject to suspension. See the slippery slope here? Eventually hitting is going to be legislated out of the game, because defensive players are going to be hesitant to hit anyone for fear of being fined and suspended. And at that point, the NFL as we know it ceases to exist. Sorry, but I do not want to see that happen. Punish the truly egregious violations (neither of Harrison's hits fall into that category no matter how much you complain) and leave the rest alone. The game has been ruined enough.

[SteelMember]

Can we please have more rules to protect the offensive players. That way we can have more high scoring games. :coffee:

[SirHulka]

We already have dresses on the QBs. What more do you want?


:sarcasm:

[ALLD]

Taking hard hitting out of football is like removing punching from boxing. It is another gut reaction by the commissioner which reeks of the lack of wisdom. He is completely amateur hour and not qualified for the leadership position he tries to fill.

[polamalubeast]

Goodell sucks:upyours::yell::mad::coffee::mad2::mad2::mad2 ::upyours::upyours:

[SirHulka]

We're not talking about hard hits! We're talking about helmet to helmet hits.

[X-Terminator]

We're not talking about hard hits! We're talking about helmet to helmet hits.

But that's not what the league said. They said "devastating hits," which means ANY hard hit, legal or not, will be subject to suspension. If they simply said "helmet-to-helmet" hits, there would be little argument.

[stlrtruck]

Matt Millen was adamant about this stoopid rule. He was fired up so much he cut Steve Young off in mid-conversation.

[CPanther95]

Taking hard hitting out of football is like removing punching from boxing.

It's like allowing punching in boxing, but disqualifying you if you draw blood.

[Dino 6 Rings]

GOOD

Do more to Piss off Silverback...PLEASE DO...last time you did that he went on to win Defensive Player of the Year and we won the Super Bowl in which he set a record for the longest play in Super Bowl history.

So Please...Fine Him...oh and make him sit a game. Think people got hurt this weekend? JUST YOU FCKING WAIT!

[Mach1]

This is what it coming to.

http://www.flagfootball.org/Image6.jpg

[SteelCityMan786]

How about we try having rules that go for both sides of the ball. Defensive games can be just as exciting as shootouts. Plus, I get enough of all of the time shootouts. They call it the Arena Football League. They don't call Football the ultimate team sport for nothing.

[LLT]

I never said anything about hitting. And you forgot one other major difference between the players of 25 years ago and today. 25 years ago, the players knew HOW TO TACKLE. Nowadays, all they know is hitting.
I don't want hitting legislated out of the game, but I would like to see a player ejected and suspended when he leads with his head, and hits helmet-to-helmet.

And by the way, I've been watching football since the 50's. And you?

Even at the high school level...it is next to impossible to set up a situation for a defender to get a "form tackle" on a player. It becomes exponentially harder as you move up into college and pro level where the players are quicker and more talented.

You teach form tackling so that a player has the fundamental knowledge to get his arms around the opponant when tackling...but RARELY does a NFL defender get a "head on" chance to wrap...lift...and drive... a runner/reciever.

[Devilsdancefloor]

everyone is talking about the D players that will think twice, but what about O guys like hines or any other WR or RB blocking. Hell think about a FB trucking up the middle to find that ILB to smash. there have been some wicked hits by FB to ILB. This is just refukindiculous.

[CPanther95]

GOOD

Do more to Piss off Silverback...PLEASE DO...last time you did that he went on to win Defensive Player of the Year and we won the Super Bowl in which he set a record for the longest play in Super Bowl history.

So Please...Fine Him...oh and make him sit a game. Think people got hurt this weekend? JUST YOU FCKING WAIT!

That's a funny prospect.

How intimidating will Harrison be when he's comes back from getting suspended. It's almost worth losing him for a game for the long term benefit.

[O'Malley]

You measure the players on their speed, agility and strength when they are drafted into the league. Then once they are in the league you are telling them to slow down so you are not hitting as hard, don't be agile and surprise opponents, and don't use your strength when tackling. It just doesn't add up. The league needs to make up its mind, and perhaps ban the combine a.s.a.p., and then ban all weight lifting and speed training related activities.
They make a good point at the end of the video. Players are not forced to do this. It is a risk/reward situation. They are taking the gamble and hoping to come out rich and injury free. Not everyone wins at the blackjack table.

Give all of the players their own controller and have them play the game on X Box 360. Then they won't be hurt. this is so ridiculous.

[O'Malley]

The fact remains that Harrison lead with his head. That's called spearing. And it's illegal on a helmet to helmet hit. I have no problem with hard hitting. But in neither case did Harrison have his hands in a tackle position. He wasn't trying to tackle, he was trying to hurt. He said so himself. Football is supposed to be a game of tackling and blocking, not hitting.

Maybe in Cleavland! That is really working for them by the way!

[O'Malley]

We're not talking about hard hits! We're talking about helmet to helmet hits.

"Devestating Hits"?

[GodfatherofSoul]

The fact remains that Harrison lead with his head.

Lets clear up what that actually means. It doesn't mean your head made contact first with a ball carrier; because that's going to happen on just about every face-to-face tackle. If guys start trying to do otherwise, I suspect all the whiffed tackles will help Goodell get the Arena League scores he's drooling for. It meant using the crown of your helmet as a weapon and lawn darting a guy. Somehow that meaning has been perverted to cover any helmet-first contact.

Someone last night (Trent Dilfer?) made the pretty insightful observation that players will start going low to avoid personal fouls, which will mean more knee injuries and more concussions on defensive players who often get them from knee-to-helmet contact on tackles.

[pepsyman1]

Maybe in Cleavland! That is really working for them by the way!

Actually, on both plays he was leading with his shoulder. James was already committed to his path (which was below the ball carriers head) and Cribbs ended up falling across his path (but James did actually turn his head away a little before impact) on the second hit James hit first with his shoulder pad and was aimed at chest level and wouldn't have caught any extra attention but the receiver saw Harrison coming and ducked his head down into the hit. James even had his hands in front of him to drive the receiver away. This is all a bunch of crap

[O'Malley]

Actually, on both plays he was leading with his shoulder. James was already committed to his path (which was below the ball carriers head) and Cribbs ended up falling across his path (but James did actually turn his head away a little before impact) on the second hit James hit first with his shoulder pad and was aimed at chest level and wouldn't have caught any extra attention but the receiver saw Harrison coming and ducked his head down into the hit. James even had his hands in front of him to drive the receiver away. This is all a bunch of crap

Agree 100%. It is football! But not for long.

[steelreserve]

Someone last night (Trent Dilfer?) made the pretty insightful observation that players will start going low to avoid personal fouls, which will mean more knee injuries and more concussions on defensive players who often get them from knee-to-helmet contact on tackles.

Yeah, and then when that happens, they'll just make another rule about hitting low, and so on and so forth, until eventually one day breathing the air will be a 15-yard penalty.

[stillers4me]

Why even have rules if the league is going to leave them all open to interpretation?

Obviously, you don't have to charge with a crime to be suspended and now, the refs can give penalties or eject on their whim. Every game will be officiated differently(even more so than it is now) and the so called "rule book" now becomes a 'living breathing object" open to interpretation. Lovely.

[steelpride12]

Well NFL Live just reported James Harrison will get fined $75K for his hits during Sunday's game, no link yet, but sure it will appear soon.

[stillers4me]

So $75 K for one hit, because they said the first one was legal. And they called Ben a rapist. :noidea:

[kmsteelerwr15]

Well NFL Live just reported James Harrison will get fined $75K for his hits during Sunday's game, no link yet, but sure it will appear soon.

BS!!!!!


Well then who does he take it out on against Miami?

[O'Malley]

Bullshit. I call bullshit. NFL not for long when they make these kind of rules! No wonder Soccer is the #1 sport in America, lots of Americans are pansies!

[SteelerFanInStl]

Well NFL Live just reported James Harrison will get fined $75K for his hits during Sunday's game, no link yet, but sure it will appear soon.

That's absolutely ridiculous! $75k for a marginal hit on a receiver that ducked his head? And Merriweather and Robinson only got fined $50k. Both of their hits were more flagrant than Harrisons. That's complete and total bullshit!

[fansince'76]

That's absolutely ridiculous! $75k for a marginal hit on a receiver that ducked his head? And Merriweather and Robinson only got fined $50k. Both of their hits were more flagrant than Harrisons. That's complete and total bullshit!

That's Goodell. See my sig.

[ALLD]

It's a witch hunt. Totally biased and a complete fabrication. The hits were legal, rough, but legal. Guess it's the old "Mel Blount Rule" revisited.

[tube517]

:bs:
Well NFL Live just reported James Harrison will get fined $75K for his hits during Sunday's game, no link yet, but sure it will appear soon.

[solardave]

The fact remains that Harrison lead with his head. That's called spearing. And it's illegal on a helmet to helmet hit. I have no problem with hard hitting. But in neither case did Harrison have his hands in a tackle position. He wasn't trying to tackle, he was trying to hurt. He said so himself. Football is supposed to be a game of tackling and blocking, not hitting.

Bullshit. Go back and watch the NFL in the 70's and even the 80's Guys like Lambert and Shell,Blount and then came Ronnie Lott. You know FOOTBALL PLAYERS!!!

[Craic]

But, but, but, players are bigger, faster and stronger today. :blah: :blah: :blah: (As if they were a bunch of 98-pound geriatric midgets back in the day)

Well, actually, that is true.
Steelers 1976 Defense: D Line avg. 255 pounds. LB avg. 223 pounds DB avg 199.
Steelers 2010 Defense: D Line avg. 302 Pounds. LB avg. 246 Pounds DB avg 199.

The DB's have stayed the same, However, both the LB's and Dline have increased by a measure which, when tested, comes out to what is formerly called "statistically significant"

Moreover, I found this on pro-football reference.

DE . DT . NT. LB . DB . P . K
1970-1975 30.1 31.0 32.3 28.9 25.4 25.9 26.5
1976-1981 30.7 31.7 32.2 29.0 25.6 26.0 25.5
1982-1986 32.1 33.3 33.4 29.6 26.0 26.2 25.8
1988-1993 33.1 35.9 36.1 30.7 26.6 27.1 26.4
1994-2000 33.7 37.2 37.2 31.1 27.0 27.3 26.8
2001-2006 33.4 38.1 37.8 30.9 27.0 27.4 26.8

QB RB FB WR TE T G C
1970-1975 26.1 28.0 - 25.3 28.2 31.0 31.6 30.9
1976-1981 25.8 28.3 28.6 25.3 28.5 31.9 32.2 31.6
1982-1986 25.9 29.0 30.3 25.1 29.1 33.0 33.7 33.4
1988-1993 26.9 29.8 31.8 25.7 30.7 35.1 36.0 35.4
1994-2000 27.6 30.4 32.7 26.1 31.1 36.7 37.7 36.4
2001-2006 27.9 30.7 33.0 26.5 31.1 37.2 38.5 36.3

As for speed, that is much more difficult to trace, since 40s weren't ran back then. In comparison, I went to track records. Here is a curve based on the 100M, and its future projections.

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2009/08/the_math_of_how_fast_usain_bol/future100mrecord.jpg


If we factor in body size, it gets even more interesting. In 1968, Hines broke the WR at 6 foot and 175 pounds. in 83, Smith was smaller, 5-10 at 140. In 88, Lewis was 6-3, 180. 94, Burrell was 6-0, 181. Bailey, in 1996, was 5-9 at 165. Then, you have Powell in 2005, 6-3 and 210, and Usain Bolt in 08 at 65-, 207.

While the WR holders vary in size and stature, a couple things really stand out. One, the DRAMATIC increase in speed which is actually breaking the predicted curve. Two, notice that Bailey, at 5-9 in 96, was an inch shorter and 20 pounds heavier than Smith in 83. Also, notice that Lewis at 6-3 was 180, but Powell AND Bolt at 6-3 and 6-5 are 207 pounds.

I think we can absolutely say that athletes have become bigger AND faster, and this does translate to football.

Now, that information, and plug it in to a formula to find the injury of two players hit each other straight up (which does happen a lot, LB's on RB's, wr and cb's etc.

The difference between the two, is 90 pounds of stopping force. That means it takes 90 more pounds of force to stop the LB when he is hitting the RB, or Joshua Cribbs.

Take two 45 pound weights, and imagine your body (or head) having to absorb that much MORE force.

I do think there is a BIG difference because of size and speed. Furthermore, the increase in helmet protection actually has caused more damage, because head blows by players delivering 90 more pounds of force... PLUS those helmets are now more solid, allowing bigger, badder hits delivering even more pounds of force.

I simply cannot negate the size and speed of players today. I DO think there needs to be some rules dealing with it. However, what we have currently, is a crock.

(BTW, I didn't calculate weights, all year training, etc., here, which means I am very sure that I am quite low in my estimates. I would surmise that all said and done, it is probably up about 150 pounds of extra force per hit, depending on LB and RB, Receiver speed and weight).


EDIT: Started this post 4 hours ago, before the fines came out. Stupid. Real Stupid. If the first one was not considered to be bad, how in the WORLD was the second, which was the forearms?

[X-Terminator]

Actually, on both plays he was leading with his shoulder. James was already committed to his path (which was below the ball carriers head) and Cribbs ended up falling across his path (but James did actually turn his head away a little before impact) on the second hit James hit first with his shoulder pad and was aimed at chest level and wouldn't have caught any extra attention but the receiver saw Harrison coming and ducked his head down into the hit. James even had his hands in front of him to drive the receiver away. This is all a bunch of crap

I watched the Massaquoi hit at least a dozen times and there's no way in hell anyone with half a brain cell or that doesn't live in Cleveland can say that it was a flagrant helmet-to-helmet hit. He tried to hit him with his shoulder first and then his forearms, and if Massaquoi doesn't duck, he gets hit in the chest. Sometimes you have to blame the receiver for getting his clock cleaned. The fine is bullshit, the "outrage" is bullshit and the "Commissioner" is a friggin moron.

[NJarhead]

Goodell needs to go.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I watched the Massaquoi hit at least a dozen times and there's no way in hell anyone with half a brain cell or that doesn't live in Cleveland can say that it was a flagrant helmet-to-helmet hit. He tried to hit him with his shoulder first and then his forearms, and if Massaquoi doesn't duck, he gets hit in the chest. Sometimes you have to blame the receiver for getting his clock cleaned. The fine is bullshit, the "outrage" is bullshit and the "Commissioner" is a friggin moron.

Me too but I'm sitting here listening to the idiots on Total Access talk about Harrison's hit being flagrant and that he was "obviously trying to injure him". It's ridiculous how much of a bias there is against the Steelers and their players. No one's even talking about Merriweather and his hit on Heap was by far the worst one of the week and he also had another hit that was flagged in the same game.

[O'Malley]

We need to put together signatures and protest for the resignation of Goddell. That is the only way to save football. Alson need to get rid of the current competition comittee.

[steelreserve]

They can't enforce the rule this way unless they break the game of football.

Goodell just needs to suck about 30 dicks in a row and then go die in a fire.

[GodfatherofSoul]

We need to put together signatures and protest for the resignation of Goddell. That is the only way to save football. Alson need to get rid of the current competition comittee.

AWESOME idea!!! Start hitting up other message boards for other teams. I like the idea of a merchandise boycott.