The "Other" Hits

[stillers4me]

Monday, October 18, 2010 05:23 PM

Written by Dan Gigler http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/templates/pg_twn/images/emailButton.png (http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/component/mailto/?tmpl=component&link=aHR0cDovL2Jsb2dzLnNpdGVzLnBvc3QtZ2F6ZXR0ZS5jb 20vaW5kZXgucGhwL3Nwb3J0cy9ibG9nLW4tZ29sZC8yMjQzNS1 0aGUtcW90aGVycS1oaXRz) http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/templates/pg_twn/images/printButton.png (http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/blog-n-gold/22435-the-qotherq-hits?tmpl=component&print=1&layout=default&page=)


The talk today has been about the Steeler who has become Public Enemy No. 1 in the minds of football America -- not Ben Roethlisberger, but rather James Harrison, in light of his two thunderous collisions with Cleveland players yesterday at Heinz Field.
Roughly two-thirds of America thinks he should be suspended, at least according to a poll in the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/18/james-harrison-helmet-to-helmit-hits-video_n_766740.html). And, Sports Illustrated's Peter King, probably the best known and most respected football writer in America, is calling for fines and possible suspensions (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/17/mmqb/index.html?eref=sihp) for Harrison and two other players.
We posted video earlier of the [/URL]Harrison hits earlier (http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/around-town/the-feed/105739), though personally, I don't understand the outrage -- the hit on Cribbs is completely legal; the hit on Massaquoi is a little more grey............

videos @ [URL]http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/blog-n-gold/22435-the-qotherq-hits?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Butch]

It's no surprise and it's all over the damn ESPN right now before the game. I am absolutely certain they are going to hang James if they can. Hell even the idiot Rodney Harrison was calling him out last night, what a hoot the dirtiest player on the dirtiest team in football calling out James Harrison...anything he can do to give his old team an advantage.

PRICK!!!

[HometownGal]

Envy is such an ugly color of green. Every person who voted in favor of a Harrison suspension/fines would give their eye teeth to have him on their team. I'd bet my left tit that those wanting Harrison's head on a platter are the under 30 crowd who don't remember when football was played the way it was meant to be played. The Steelers D of the 70's physically crucified opponents and they had players who suffered concussions as well, but you never heard the B & M'ing so prevalent today when a defensive player (particularly a dreaded Steeler) clobbers an opponent. :jerkit: It's FOOTBALL shitheads not ballroom dancing.

[oneforthetoe]

This is the 2000's equivalent of the Mel Blount Rule. Steelers are too tough. League changes rules to help other teams.

[The Duke]

This is the 2000's equivalent of the Mel Blount Rule. Steelers are too tough. League changes rules to help other teams.

this

but oh well, the steelers will prevail and say suck it league when they get their 7 lombardis

[BPS3akaWirels3]

Let's not forget the hits on (Ratbirds) Heap and (Egirls) Jackson yesterday also..

[BigNastyDefense]

You can't legislate hitting out of the game.

I hate the "defenseless receiver" rule. It's the defenders job to separate the ball from the receiver/ball carrier. You do that by hitting the guy as hard as possible.

These players know there are health risks playing this game. They know that 5-10 years after retiring, if not before retiring, that the will feel the effects on their bodies. They know there are risks of concussions, broken bones, dislocated joints, and possibly paralysis when they step on the field. If you don't want to take that chance, don't fucking step on the field.

[salamander]

I love the hatred towards the Steelers. I say keep it coming. STEELER NATION!

As for the hits... do I like seeing these guys get hurt? Absolutely not, but it's part of the game. Suck it up or go play basketball or soccer.

[GodfatherofSoul]

I've been on the Huffington Post. Two/thirds of people there think football and sports in general are stupid wastes of time.

[fansince'76]

Hell even the idiot Rodney Harrison was calling him out last night, what a hoot the dirtiest player on the dirtiest team in football calling out James Harrison...

No shit. If EVER there was a case of the pot calling the kettle black....

[X-Terminator]

Envy is such an ugly color of green. Every person who voted in favor of a Harrison suspension/fines would give their eye teeth to have him on their team. I'd bet my left tit that those wanting Harrison's head on a platter are the under 30 crowd who don't remember when football was played the way it was meant to be played. The Steelers D of the 70's physically crucified opponents and they had players who suffered concussions as well, but you never heard the B & M'ing so prevalent today when a defensive player (particularly a dreaded Steeler) clobbers an opponent. :jerkit: It's FOOTBALL shitheads not ballroom dancing.

This.

America has become a nation of pussies, and now they are running the NFL. Football as we once knew it will be dead within the next 5 years. If they suspend Harrison for any of those hits, I may never watch another NFL game. Let the bedwetters have it.

[fansince'76]

I love the hatred towards the Steelers. I say keep it coming. STEELER NATION!

The problem I have is that the douchebag of a commissioner lets the media dictate his disciplinary decisions. If a dickhead like Peter King says he needs to be suspended, then by golly, he'll be suspended! :rolleyes:

[salamander]

The problem I have is that the douchebag of a commissioner lets the media dictate his disciplinary decisions. If a dickhead like Peter King says he needs to be suspended, then by golly, he'll be suspended! :rolleyes:

I definitely can't disagree with you on that. If it were up to Der Commisar, the Steelers would lose every game and the Patsies* would win the Super Bowl every year.

[Chidi29]

I hate to be "that guy" but let me play devil's advocate for just a moment.

As a preface, I don't believe Harrison should be suspended. Penalized? Yeah, the hit on MM should have drawn one. Want to fine him for it? Ok by me. But suspend him? That's where you lose me.

Anyway, back to my point.

You're Roger Goodell. First, bolt your doors. Fans aren't exactly going to be sending you Christmas cards anytime soon.

You have Congress and the NFLPA breathing down your neck to keep players safe. More and more research is being done on concussions and you're the commish who is supposed to lead the way in player safety. You've told Congress that. And that's part of your job. You go ahead and make rules to appease those groups.

By doing that, fans lash out for you for "wussifing" the game.

If you reverse changes, you'll be destroyed by the aforementioned organzations for not doing enough to help players.

If you continue to try to enforce player safety, fans hate you more.

If you do nothing, well, everyone will still probably hate you.

It's a very thin line with a lot of grey area. You're looking for that right cup of pourage. It took the little girl some time to find the one that was just right. Give Goodell time as well.

[salamander]

I hate to be "that guy" but let me pay devil's advocate for just a moment.

As a preface, I don't believe Harrison should be suspended. Penalized? Yeah, the hit on MM should have drawn one. Want to fine him for it? Ok by me. But suspend him? That's where you lose me.

Anyway, back to my point.

You're Roger Goodell. First, bolt your doors. Fans aren't exactly going to be sending you Christmas cards anytime soon.

You have Congress and the NFLPA breathing down your neck to keep players safe. More and more research is being done on concussions and you're the commish who is supposed to lead the way in player safety. You've told Congress that. And that's part of your job. You go ahead and make rules to appease those groups.

By doing that, fans lash out for you for "wussifing" the game.

If you reverse changes, you'll be destroyed by the aforementioned organzations for not doing enough to help players.

If you continue to try to enforce player safety, fans hate you more.

If you do nothing, well, everyone will still probably hate you.

It's a very thin line with a lot of grey area. You're looking for that right cup of pourage. It took the little girl some time to find the one that was just right. Give Goodell time as well.

I totally understand what you're saying, but it's the fans that buy the tickets and merchandise. Not Congress. Perhaps that's a moot point, but it is something that I'm sure he thinks about.

I think the bottom line is that there's a lot of old school fans out there who do not want this league to turn into the "wussified" sport that it's slowly becoming.

[Chidi29]

I totally understand what you're saying, but it's the fans that buy the tickets and merchandise. Not Congress. Perhaps that's a moot point, but it is something that I'm sure he thinks about.

I think the bottom line is that there's a lot of old school fans out there who do not want this league to turn into the "wussified" sport that it's slowly becoming.

But Congress is very powerful. If they wanted to, they could force rule changes. Plus, you have the NFLPA on your case. In these tense negotiation periods, it's tough for the NFL to take a stand against player safety (Which even if it isn't that, the NFLPA will make it out to be. Their number one goal: Make the other side look as bad as possible).

[salamander]

But Congress is very powerful. If they wanted to, they could force rule changes. Plus, you have the NFLPA on your case. In these tense negotiation periods, it's tough for the NFL to take a stand against player safety (Which even if it isn't that, the NFLPA will make it out to be. Their number one goal: Make the other side look as bad as possible).

Good point(s).

[Chidi29]

Just thinking about it a little more, I've come to a conclusion. Maybe it isn't anything mind-boggling, but with all this hoop-la going on, it's getting lost.

Complete player safety is impossible. This is an extremely violent sport that demands collisions. No matter what you do, what you try, guys are going to get hurt. Severely at times. There's no way around it.

What does that mean the NFL should do? More or less safety. I have no idea. That's the problem.

[Borski]

I like this quote by Dolphins safety Yeremiah Bell


"As a defensive player, you have to think about how you hit somebody now, which is totally ridiculous to me," Bell said. "You're trying to get a guy down. Sometimes you get caught leading with your helmet. When you're going to tackle a guy full speed, you can't really think, 'Oh, I have to hit this guy a certain way.' You have to get him down as best you can. Sometimes it's helmet to helmet, which guys aren't trying to do, but that's just the way it is. It's part of the game."

[stillers4me]

It seems the players themselves are a bit confused by the message the league is sending. Ryan Clark has been tweeting all night about why does the league want to suspend players for hits yet are pushing for them to play 18 games?? He doesn't feel it's about safety at all.

[stillers4me]

Woodley's abit confused, too.
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1145503366/TnH56PM0_normal
LaMarrWoodley (http://twitter.com/#!/LaMarrWoodley) LaMarr Woodley



If theyre so worried about players' safety then why are they trying to add 2 more games? #justsayin (http://twitter.com/#search/%23justsayin)

[O'Malley]

This.

America has become a nation of pussies, and now they are running the NFL. Football as we once knew it will be dead within the next 5 years. If they suspend Harrison for any of those hits, I may never watch another NFL game. Let the bedwetters have it.

I agree about the state of the nation. But I will still watch the games. Just makes it a lot harder to watch. Unless there is a new rules commitee and a new commish the sport will die. Put the players on the sidelines and give them the pom pom's and let the cheerleaders play. Then no players will get concussions.

[pepsyman1]

As long as players aren't intentionally leading with the helmet and are aiming below the head, I think that's the most you can ask of guys that are 260 lbs moving at 20 something miles an our on the way to a collision. If someone is flagrantly or intentionally trying to lead with the helmet or take someone out that way...do what you will to him, he deserves it for being an ass. I didn't take issue with either of Harrison's tackles...on Cribbs if you look carefully James was turning his head away from the hit just before (and he was already trying to aim low on a guy that's very unpredictable) and if you watch the other hit in slow motion, he hit the receiver with his shoulder as the receiver ducted down into it...he was even using his hands in front of him to drive the receiver back. The hit that WAS a big issue for me was Meriweather's attempted cheap shot on Heap. He very obviously was TRYING to hit him with his helmet..he jumped and tried to drive it straight up into Heap head...thankfully he didn't really make full contact.

[SirHulka]

As long as players aren't intentionally leading with the helmet and are aiming below the head, I think that's the most you can ask of guys that are 260 lbs moving at 20 something miles an our on the way to a collision. If someone is flagrantly or intentionally trying to lead with the helmet or take someone out that way...do what you will to him, he deserves it for being an ass. I didn't take issue with either of Harrison's tackles...on Cribbs if you look carefully James was turning his head away from the hit just before (and he was already trying to aim low on a guy that's very unpredictable) and if you watch the other hit in slow motion, he hit the receiver with his shoulder as the receiver ducted down into it...he was even using his hands in front of him to drive the receiver back. The hit that WAS a big issue for me was Meriweather's attempted cheap shot on Heap. He very obviously was TRYING to hit him with his helmet..he jumped and tried to drive it straight up into Heap head...thankfully he didn't really make full contact.
But the fact remains that he WAS leading with his head. Both times. I didn't see his hands anywhere near the carrier when he made contact.

[Steeldude]

so the steelers have caused the creation of 3 rules.

1. the mel blount rule
2. the hines ward rule
3. the james harrison rule

[The Duke]

so the steelers have caused the creation of 3 rules.

1. the mel blount rule
2. the hines ward rule
3. the james harrison rule

yep

and meanwhile the patriots cause the tom brady rule :doh:

[TheRuneMeister]

Who was the Steelers player that was literally looking out of his earhole on a tackle in the Browns game? Was it Sanders? To me, that hit looked just as bad, if not worse, yet no one has even mentioned it anywhere. Talk about bias.

[SirHulka]

I live in NM. We don't get the Browns games out here. Can't talk about what I didn't see.

[fansince'76]

Woodley's abit confused, too.
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1145503366/TnH56PM0_normal
LaMarrWoodley (http://twitter.com/#%21/LaMarrWoodley) LaMarr Woodley



If theyre so worried about players' safety then why are they trying to add 2 more games? #justsayin (http://twitter.com/#search/%23justsayin)

Because the league DOESN'T give a rat's ass about the safety of the players. The league cares about profit and profit alone. This is simply knee-jerk reaction to the whiny crybabies who should probably be watching tennis or golf as opposed to football.

[SirHulka]

I agree with you that the league doesn't really care about the players. They piss and moan about player safety, and protecting from concussions, but yet they allow RBs to get pounded, and hit in the head with no repercussions. They talk about player safety, and yet promote the big hits. What hypocrity. To the league and the owners, players aren't human beings, they're just so much assets.

[fansince'76]

I agree with you that the league doesn't really care about the players. They piss and moan about player safety, and protecting from concussions, but yet they allow RBs to get pounded, and hit in the head with no repercussions. They talk about player safety, and yet promote the big hits. What hypocrity. To the league and the owners, players aren't human beings, they're just so much assets.

Exactly. Players are a commodity - and are quickly discarded when they can no longer cut the mustard. That's why I rarely begrudge players when they hold out for more money.

[SirHulka]

I forget which owner it was, it happened so long ago, but in the 70's when artificial turf was becoming popular, an owner was asked if he worried about his players getting injured on it. And his response was that he could always get another running back.

[silver & black]

This.

America has become a nation of pussies, and now they are running the NFL. Football as we once knew it will be dead within the next 5 years. If they suspend Harrison for any of those hits, I may never watch another NFL game. Let the bedwetters have it.
Football as we knew it... at least as I and a few other "old people" around here knew it, has been dead for a long time.

We can blame Goodell if it makes us feel good, but I would guess that the owners have a lot to do with this. I'm sure they are tired of paying out multi million dollar contracts to guys that are sitting on the bench for multiple games to whole seasons because of injuries.

Goodell/owners have basically created a catch 22 with these rule changes. Now they suspend players for multiple games because of hits that violate the rules, effectively sitting the multi million dollar players they were trying to keep from being injured... and the players the fans PAY to see.

I understand trying to be as safe as possible. Launching at a player like a missle while leadind with the helmet should get a fine and/or suspension every time. But the hits I saw from Harrison were nothing more than good NFL hits; the kind of hits all NFL fans like to see... unless they were levied against your team...lol.

If this newest rule change is really going to go into effect this coming weekend, I'm not sure I can be bothered with the NFL anymore... and believe me, when you root for a losing team for almost 8 years, it's hard enough to stay interested.

[silver & black]

Just thinking about it a little more, I've come to a conclusion. Maybe it isn't anything mind-boggling, but with all this hoop-la going on, it's getting lost.

Complete player safety is impossible. This is an extremely violent sport that demands collisions. No matter what you do, what you try, guys are going to get hurt. Severely at times. There's no way around it.

What does that mean the NFL should do? More or less safety. I have no idea. That's the problem.

"This isn't a contact sport... it's a collision sport". [ Jack Tatum ]

[silver & black]

Because the league DOESN'T give a rat's ass about the safety of the players. The league cares about profit and profit alone. This is simply knee-jerk reaction to the whiny crybabies who should probably be watching tennis or golf as opposed to football.

Exactly. The NFL ceased to be about the game long ago. It's a big time business and this is all about protecting their bottom line.

I'm sure the NFLPA loves the rules changes. It enables the "players" to get paid enormous amounts of money while ensuring very little risk to said players of getting injured. I don't blame them, really. If I could be guaranteed a fabulous paycheck for playing a game that is known for being violent while being protected from injury, I'd be happy as hell too.

[X-Terminator]

Football as we knew it... at least as I and a few other "old people" around here knew it, has been dead for a long time.

We can blame Goodell if it makes us feel good, but I would guess that the owners have a lot to do with this. I'm sure they are tired of paying out multi million dollar contracts to guys that are sitting on the bench for multiple games to whole seasons because of injuries.

Goodell/owners have basically created a catch 22 with these rule changes. Now they suspend players for multiple games because of hits that violate the rules, effectively sitting the multi million dollar players they were trying to keep from being injured... and the players the fans PAY to see.

I understand trying to be as safe as possible. Launching at a player like a missle while leadind with the helmet should get a fine and/or suspension every time. But the hits I saw from Harrison were nothing more than good NFL hits; the kind of hits all NFL fans like to see... unless they were levied against your team...lol.

If this newest rule change is really going to go into effect this coming weekend, I'm not sure I can be bothered with the NFL anymore... and believe me, when you root for a losing team for almost 8 years, it's hard enough to stay interested.

Exactly.

I'm serious - I'm this close to saying the hell with the NFL. I am not going to watch a sissified game run by a bunch of sissified jackholes who only give a shyt about one thing - the almighty dollar. Rest assured, they WILL lose a lot of die-hard fans if they continue down this path.

[BPS3akaWirels3]

Exactly.

I'm serious - I'm this close to saying the hell with the NFL. I am not going to watch a sissified game run by a bunch of sissified jackholes who only give a shyt about one thing - the almighty dollar. Rest assured, they WILL lose a lot of die-hard fans if they continue down this path.

Roller derbies are starting to look better and better every season...

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPo8zRdLmcI6qNa_ZHrxI70RJ2KYcw9 mzTDsYiDEot4u9753U&t=1&h=159&w=234&usg=__pPIEzAEJCUqThstdWHLWrb8WU0k=

[cold-hard-steel]

Maybe James should think about joining the UFC. It is a violent sport with no critics against its brutality.Football is slowly turning into a badminton game. On the hit on Cribbs,it appears to me that he is the one who lead with his helmet,not Harrison.The other hit maybe justifies a fine,maybe. Nothing more.

[Wallace108]

I'm going to go a little against the grain here. I don't have a problem with any of the hits, but I think the rules (whatever they are) need to be enforced equally. But the rules have been set up in such a way that they become judgment calls. And as we know, the refs' judgment sucks.

Putting any bias aside, how was Suggs's hit on Palmer roughing the passer?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z3AqTa-xig

And yet the Steelers sack on Vince Young wasn't?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIOtG7DL4LA

How was T.J. Ward's hit on Shipley a personal foul?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfoPYpC4pyY

Yet Harrison's hit on Massaquoi wasn't?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81dS21QTgkQ

Like I said ... I don't have a problem with any of the hits. I think they were ALL good hits. But the rules, whatever they are, need to be enforced equally. And that isn't happening. To me, the NFL should be more concerned about its refs than its players.

[SirHulka]

I think the real solution to this is to go back to the helmets of the 60s. If the helmets of today wren't such lethal weapons, maybe the players would learn how to tackle. And there were plenty of hard hits then, too.

[stlrtruck]

Here's my opinion on those videos:

1) Suggs on Palmer was a BS Call

2) Steelers sack on Young. VY 2.0 didn't go down when he was gathered up and the refs didn't blow the whistle. As you pointed out, then the NFL should look at the refs err in judgment for not blowing the whistle a lot sooner in that instance. If they don't want QBs to be cork screwed to the ground then blow the whistle sooner and end the play. OR make QBs responsible for going down or the defensive players not responsible for the method they take them down.

3) The only thing I can say about the TJ Ward hit is that maybe they considered it launching himself. Ala the Ryan Clark rule? I thought it was a clean hit as he hit him with his shoulder and it dislodged the ball from the WR in the endzone. And by rule of the defensive scheme...isn't that his job to prevent TDs? And if you look at the WR he cradles his body once he realizes he's going to get his clocked cleaned. If he maintains the upright position the hit would be more in his shoulder.

4) If you watch the Massuaquoi he lowers his body when he realizes that Harrison is coming, then he tries to regain control of the ball, once he lowers himself to the ground he has now made himself open to a violent hit. Again, the NFL does not put the responsibility on the offensive player but more so on the defensive player who has as much control over the offensive player moves as I do over my 20 year old daughter.

[cold-hard-steel]

Nothing like good old fashioned linebacker play. James does the job he is paid to do. What is he supposed to do to the guy catching the ball,or running with it? Point a finger at him and say go down fool,and then the carrier or reciever just lays down,and then James comes up and gently touches him when he's down.They would find a way to say he touched him too hard!Both hits look like pretty good plays to me.Just me sayin.