How does Mike Tomlin compare to other NFL head coaches? There's no doubt the standard has fallen.

[saturdaysarebetter]

After comparing Tomlin's coaching record to his peers, at one time you could argue he was the second best coach in the NFL. That's not the case as the standard has fallen.

https://johnbaranowski.wordpress.com/2023/03/31/mike-tomlin-the-standard-has-fallen/

[polamalubeast]

Possible but things can change quickly sometimes, good or bad.....Just ask to Andy Reid!

[tube517]

Rather than repeat what everyone thinks, just visit the "Fire Mike Tomlin" thread with 61 pages and 1800+ posts. You'll get plenty of opinions there.

[DesertSteel]

After comparing Tomlin's coaching record to his peers, at one time you could argue he was the second best coach in the NFL. That's not the case as the standard has fallen.

https://johnbaranowski.wordpress.com/2023/03/31/mike-tomlin-the-standard-has-fallen/
At one time you could argue that Bill Belichick was the best coach in the NFL.

[oneforthetoe]

You could have said the same about Cowher during his losing period before he won a Superbowl. And even the immortal Chuck Noll's reputation was taking a bit of a hit in the 80's - with fans and commentators claiming the game had passed him by.

To some extent Tomlin's career is already set in stone. I can't imagine anything happening that would keep Tomlin from being respected as one of the greatest coaches of his era. Certainly, the respect he garners from the players he coaches is evidence of that. (And no, it's not because he is so easy on them. Cam Heyward would not respect a coach because he was a pushover). He might even have done enough to merit Hall of Fame consideration already, but some will debate for sure. If he is able to get the Steelers (or another team) back to the Superbowl or at least making long runs too it, he definitely seals himself as a Hall of Fame Coach.

[HollywoodSteel]

You could have said the same about Cowher during his losing period before he won a Superbowl. And even the immortal Chuck Noll's reputation was taking a bit of a hit in the 80's - with fans and commentators claiming the game had passed him by.

To some extent Tomlin's career is already set in stone. I can't imagine anything happening that would keep Tomlin from being respected as one of the greatest coaches of his era. Certainly, the respect he garners from the players he coaches is evidence of that. (And no, it's not because he is so easy on them. Cam Heyward would not respect a coach because he was a pushover). He might even have done enough to merit Hall of Fame consideration already, but some will debate for sure. If he is able to get the Steelers (or another team) back to the Superbowl or at least making long runs too it, he definitely seals himself as a Hall of Fame Coach.

If he wins another Super Bowl it will just be with Cowher’s uniforms. :)

[oneforthetoe]

If he wins another Super Bowl it will just be with Cowher’s uniforms. :)


Yes, and there are 5 hotdog vendors who will also be holdovers.;)

[that1guy]

Although I agree with the idea Tomlin isn't a very good coach,the lack of proper punctuation prevented me from reading the whole article.

[DesertSteel]

Although I agree with the idea Tomlin isn't a very good coach,the lack of proper punctuation prevented me from reading the whole article.
Interesting take, given your poor punctuation.

[BlackAndGold]

The last 5 years, the standard has fallen? well yea 5 years ago was the beginning of a declining QB on a fat contract. This teams failures(mid 2010's) isn't just on Tomlin. Colbert was pretty incompetent in adding talent to the secondary, and well honestly just poor drafting period. Drafting (below) average receivers on day 2 almost every year sure didn't help, hopefully the new front office learned from that.

[86WARD]

The last 5 years, the standard has fallen? well yea 5 years ago was the beginning of a declining QB on a fat contract. This teams failures(mid 2010's) isn't just on Tomlin. Colbert was pretty incompetent in adding talent to the secondary, and well honestly just poor drafting period. Drafting (below) average receivers on day 2 almost every year sure didn't help, hopefully the new front office learned from that.

He added JOe Haden. That was a pretty nice addition to the secondary. He added Minkah Fitzpatrick to the secondary.

[BlackAndGold]

He added JOe Haden. That was a pretty nice addition to the secondary. He added Minkah Fitzpatrick to the secondary.

Joe Haden being added to the secondary
https://media.tenor.com/SK97AMA_k18AAAAC/sticking-duct-tape-to-a-huge-wall-crack-seth-rogen.gif

Minkah was acquired in 2019, the year Ben was hurt. A little too late for contention.

[86WARD]

Joe Haden being added to the secondary
https://media.tenor.com/SK97AMA_k18AAAAC/sticking-duct-tape-to-a-huge-wall-crack-seth-rogen.gif

Minkah was acquired in 2019, the year Ben was hurt. A little too late for contention.

Both improved the secondary. Without those two, the secondary is probably the worst in the league.

[DuckHodges]

At one time you could argue that Bill Belichick was the best coach in the NFL.

now people realize you could have put in the waterboy as the head coach and still won super bowls because brady was his qb

[lipps83]

now people realize you could have put in the waterboy as the head coach and still won super bowls because brady was his qb

He was/is just a slightly above average coach that was led by the best QB that has ever played the game.

Without Brady he is under .500 for his career in 9 seasons.

Not many of them kinds of coaches stick around too long.

[Born2Steel]

There is a direct correlation between having a good QB and winning games.

[polamalubeast]

Both improved the secondary. Without those two, the secondary is probably the worst in the league.

It was too late back in 2019......It was still a great move but the killer b's era was over....

[BlackAndGold]

It was too late back in 2019......It was still a great move but the killer b's era was over....

Correct.

[86WARD]

It was too late back in 2019......It was still a great move but the killer b's era was over....

But that’s within the last 5 years. The comment was made that he hadn’t improved the secondary but he had.

[Born2Steel]

Tomlin lost his HoF QB in 2019 in the 2nd game. 2 QBs that are no longer on NFL rosters shared time as backup. Tomlin coached that team to 8-8, barely missing the playoffs.

Tomlin’s 2022 team started 2-6 with a historically bad offense and a rookie QB. Tomlin coached that team to 7-2 the rest of the way and finished 9-7, barely missing the playoffs.

Tomlin’s 2013 team started 0-4 and got to 2-6 before turning the season around and finishing 8-8, barely missing the playoffs.

No, these are not considered good seasons. They are considered great coaching jobs. Mike Tomlin is a great coach. Whether he remains with the Steelers for life or moves on to coach elsewhere, he will still be a great coach. His lifetime coaching record as HC proves that. He has won 2 SB for those only counting championships. 7 time AFCN champion. 5 time AFCN runner-up. Mike Tomlin is a great coach. Best in Steelers history.

[steelcityboyz]

. Best in Steelers history.Ok then.

[Born2Steel]

Ok then.

Not best team, best HC in Steelers history. Noll had better teams. Cowher had better teams. Tomlin is the better coach.

Obviously this is my opinion. Not telling anyone how to live here.

[DesertSteel]

He has won 2 SB for those only counting championships. 7 time AFCN champion. 5 time AFCN runner-up. Mike Tomlin is a great coach. Best in Steelers history.
First time I've heard from anyone that Tomlin is better than both Cowher and Noll. That's quite a take. Did Tomlin win a Super Bowl that I'm unaware of? Otherwise, he won one. I do agree that Tomlin is a great coach. His real weakness is not surrounding himself with strength at the Coordinator positions. It's continuing to plague him into 2023.

[saturdaysarebetter]

Tomlin lost his HoF QB in 2019 in the 2nd game. 2 QBs that are no longer on NFL rosters shared time as backup. Tomlin coached that team to 8-8, barely missing the playoffs.

Tomlin’s 2022 team started 2-6 with a historically bad offense and a rookie QB. Tomlin coached that team to 7-2 the rest of the way and finished 9-7, barely missing the playoffs.

Tomlin’s 2013 team started 0-4 and got to 2-6 before turning the season around and finishing 8-8, barely missing the playoffs.

No, these are not considered good seasons. They are considered great coaching jobs. Mike Tomlin is a great coach. Whether he remains with the Steelers for life or moves on to coach elsewhere, he will still be a great coach. His lifetime coaching record as HC proves that. He has won 2 SB for those only counting championships. 7 time AFCN champion. 5 time AFCN runner-up. Mike Tomlin is a great coach. Best in Steelers history.

So he gets a pass on those terrible starts? I don't think so. And to call him the best coach in Steelers history is laughable. Pure folly. Lombardi trophies matter.

[DuckHodges]

There is a direct correlation between having a good QB and winning games.

Yep. look at all the 'greatest coaches of all time', and on those teams, every single one of them had a HoF QB at some point in his career, if not for a big chunk of it. Andy Reid will probably get that accolade when it's all said and done, but probably would have never happened if he never had Mahomes. Up until then, he was always the coach who wouldn't ever get it done in the playoffs.

[Born2Steel]

First time I've heard from anyone that Tomlin is better than both Cowher and Noll. That's quite a take. Did Tomlin win a Super Bowl that I'm unaware of? Otherwise, he won one. I do agree that Tomlin is a great coach. His real weakness is not surrounding himself with strength at the Coordinator positions. It's continuing to plague him into 2023.

He won at Tampa before getting the DC job at Vikings, before the HC job for the Steelers. Won 2, went to 3.

One other clarification, my opinion is based on coaching job. The better coaching job. Not necessarily achievement. I think Tomlin has done a better job coaching than Noll and Cowher. Noll accomplished the most with 4 rings. Obviously.

- - - Updated - - -


So he gets a pass on those terrible starts? I don't think so. And to call him the best coach in Steelers history is laughable. Pure folly. Lombardi trophies matter.

Not a pass. Where do you get that impression. He does get credit for turning those seasons around though.

Lombardi trophies do matter. Not sure what that has to do with folly. I explained my opinion already.

[steelcityboyz]

Not saying Tomlin isn't a good coach, but to put him before Noll is insane. Noll was a teacher when it came to coaching his players he was no nonsense his team was always prepared to play.

Why was Chuck Noll a great coach?




Noll was a sharp strategist, brilliant evaluator of personnel and strong motivator. “He was the glue,” said former linebacker Jack Ham, a Hall of Famer like Noll — and so many members of those Steelers teams. “He was the guy that got all of us to buy into how to win a championship. He took the lead.Jun 14, 2014

[DesertSteel]

We’re counting rings for DB coaches now?!

[Born2Steel]

Not saying Tomlin isn't a good coach, but to put him before Noll is insane. Noll was a teacher when it came to coaching his players he was no nonsense his team was always prepared to play.

Why was Chuck Noll a great coach?




Noll was a sharp strategist, brilliant evaluator of personnel and strong motivator. “He was the glue,” said former linebacker Jack Ham, a Hall of Famer like Noll — and so many members of those Steelers teams. “He was the guy that got all of us to buy into how to win a championship. He took the lead.Jun 14, 2014






There's no debate. Noll was a great coach. I never said he wasn't a great coach. The thread asks to compare Tomlin.

I can remember watching the Steelers as a kid. There were games that the Steelers were losing and you could park busses around Coach Noll and not get close to hitting a player. The story goes, Noll had no idea who Mike Webster was. Completely different coaching styles and approaches to the team aspect. Coach Cowher was a lot more like Noll in some ways, but was more of a guy that celebrated with his team like Tomlin. I love all 3 of these guys. I just think when compared solely as coaches, Tomlin has been the better of the 3.

- - - Updated - - -


We’re counting rings for DB coaches now?!


I was listing Tomlin's accomplishments as a coach. So for that reason, yes.

[BlackAndGold]

But that’s within the last 5 years. The comment was made that he hadn’t improved the secondary but he had.

I expanded on the article going back further than the last 5 years as it's clearly obvious why "the standard has fallen"(end of article) was due to declining QB play, in which I don't place blame on Tomlin(or anyone else). I brought up the mid 2010's, when the team had higher expectations and poor playoff results. Those teams fielded an elite offensive team but couldn't get over the hill, mostly because of the horrible secondary. Which is true, and Colbert and co could not improve it enough during that time. Getting a gift in Joe Haden and placing him with a group that includes Mike Mitchell, Artie Burns, Sean Davis, Coty Sensabaugh isn't much of a fix. It's what cost this team a potential super bowl(aka the standard).


2019(Minkah's arrival) the window was closed. Too little too late.

[DesertSteel]

The story goes, Noll had no idea who Mike Webster was.

You don’t seriously believe that’s true do you?

[Born2Steel]

You don’t seriously believe that’s true do you?

Why would I not? I've heard the story from people who were there.

[DesertSteel]

Why would I not? I've heard the story from people who were there.
Chuck Noll didn’t know who Mike Webster was? Me thinks that’s hyperbole?



Chuck Noll, the man who led the Pittsburgh Steelers to an unprecedented four Super Bowl titles in six seasons from 1974 to 1979, already had his radar on Webster during his college days in Madison, WI.


Mike Webster was the best center who ever played the game,” Noll told The Associated Press (via ESPN) in the fall of 2002


https://www.profootballhistory.com/mike-webster/

[Steeler-in-west]

Tomlin won a super bowl, but that was 15 years ago (13 since the last super bowl appearance). the team had a good regular season won-loss record between 2010 and 2020, but i give alot of credit to Ben and co. for that. Our playoff record stinks in that time period. I think a number of coaches would've racked up a similar won loss record with that talent.

Tomlin has his strengths and flaws (motivation factor is great, prepping and team discipline have always seemed inconsistent at best), but yeah as an honest assessment, other coaches with better playoff records in the last 5 or 10 years have passed him by.

Is Tomlin a great coach? based on his overall record and the super bowl win and another appearance, ok, i can go along with that. Its not easy to win or get to a super bowl. But lately, the last decade? No, he hasn't been, his 3-6 playoff record speaks for itself.

[oneforthetoe]

Tomlin won a super bowl, but that was 15 years ago (13 since the last super bowl appearance). the team had a good regular season won-loss record between 2010 and 2020, but i give alot of credit to Ben and co. for that. Our playoff record stinks in that time period. I think a number of coaches would've racked up a similar won loss record with that talent.

Tomlin has his strengths and flaws (motivation factor is great, prepping and team discipline have always seemed inconsistent at best), but yeah as an honest assessment, other coaches with better playoff records in the last 5 or 10 years have passed him by.

Is Tomlin a great coach? based on his overall record and the super bowl win and another appearance, ok, i can go along with that. Its not easy to win or get to a super bowl. But lately, the last decade? No, he hasn't been, his 3-6 playoff record speaks for itself.

Overall, I'd say that is a pretty fair analysis. However, when you give Ben and co. the credit for the great regular season record, but hold Tomlin accountable for the poor playoff record, you lose me. I think you have to credit or blame them individually or together for both the good and the bad.

[Steeler-in-west]

Overall, I'd say that is a pretty fair analysis. However, when you give Ben and co. the credit for the great regular season record, but hold Tomlin accountable for the poor playoff record, you lose me. I think you have to credit or blame them individually or together for both the good and the bad.

Talent can win you regular season games but when it comes to the postseason where the talent level evens out - scheme, preparation, and coaching play a bigger role. That's the way I see it. Maybe Tomlin didn't have good enough support from the coaching staff - but as a HC he should share some of the blame for that too.

[oneforthetoe]

Talent can win you regular season games but when it comes to the postseason where the talent level evens out - scheme, preparation, and coaching play a bigger role. That's the way I see it. Maybe Tomlin didn't have good enough support from the coaching staff - but as a HC he should share some of the blame for that too.

I agree Tomlin absolutely shares the blame. Ultimately the head coach is responsible. I read your original post to mean that the players were solely responsible for great regular seasons and Tomlin solely for the playoff losses. That seems like an oversimplification to me. As I said, ultimately the head coach is responsible... However, those playoff failure teams had a hall of fame QB, a wide receiver who for a short period of time was as good as anybody ever, a great center and guard, some amazing defensive players, and a just a bunch of really good talent. Saying, well with all that talent Tomlin should have won playoff games is fair, but omits the fact that the hall of fame qb and other great players should have been able to beat the likes of Jacksonville without putting the whole burden on their coach.

[Steeler-in-west]

I agree Tomlin absolutely shares the blame. Ultimately the head coach is responsible. I read your original post to mean that the players were solely responsible for great regular seasons and Tomlin solely for the playoff losses. That seems like an oversimplification to me. As I said, ultimately the head coach is responsible... However, those playoff failure teams had a hall of fame QB, a wide receiver who for a short period of time was as good as anybody ever, a great center and guard, some amazing defensive players, and a just a bunch of really good talent. Saying, well with all that talent Tomlin should have won playoff games is fair, but omits the fact that the hall of fame qb and other great players should have been able to beat the likes of Jacksonville without putting the whole burden on their coach.

regarding that Jacksonville game, wasn't Tomlin talking about meeting the Patriots in the next round - before the Jax game?

https://www.espn.com/blog/jacksonville-jaguars/post/_/id/24471/jaguars-say-theyre-not-bothered-by-steelers-talking-about-patriots

That's not a good look for Tomlin. things like this also remind me of those times we lost to bottom feeders during the regular season - which cost us playoff positioning. Like i said, great motivator, but sober schemer and tactician? Maybe not - i think his hubris sometimes gets the better of him.

[DesertSteel]

Talent can win you regular season games but when it comes to the postseason where the talent level evens out - scheme, preparation, and coaching play a bigger role. That's the way I see it. Maybe Tomlin didn't have good enough support from the coaching staff - but as a HC he should share some of the blame for that too.
Mahomes has won Andy Reid 2 Super Bowl wins, not his brilliant coaching.

[Steeler-in-west]

Mahomes has won Andy Reid 2 Super Bowl wins, not his brilliant coaching.

we had Ben at his best in the 2010's. Maybe Mahomes is better...

[El Kabong]

some amazing defensive players
Maybe some good individual players, but looking at the 2011-2018 teams, I think there were some very poor overall defensive units there.

[DesertSteel]

we had Ben at his best in the 2010's. Maybe Mahomes is better...
Maybe? Lol

[vasteeler]

we had Ben at his best in the 2010's. Maybe Mahomes is better...

Lol... Maybe, but or defense was shit then.

[Born2Steel]

There are some very good coaches and some very good teams. We can log in on here and debate who we all think belongs on the “Mount Rushmore” of today’s coaches, but if you leave Tomlin off it’s because you are holding him to a higher standard than the others. Which is what fans do. But a realistic breakdown of each season as it’s own entity you can easily see where Tomlin kept the ship in deeper water and off the rocks. That’s what great coaches do.

[DesertSteel]

Steelers coaches since 1969

1. Noll — Hall of Fame coach
2. Cowher — Hall of Fame coach
3. Tomlin — to be Hall of Fame coach

Not bad.

[Born2Steel]

Steelers coaches since 1969

1. Noll — Hall of Fame coach
2. Cowher — Hall of Fame coach
3. Tomlin — to be Hall of Fame coach

Not bad.

Exactly.

[vasteeler]

Maybe some good individual players, but looking at the 2011-2018 teams, I think there were some very poor overall defensive units there.

Very poor

[86WARD]

Steelers coaches since 1969

1. Noll — Hall of Fame coach
2. Cowher — Hall of Fame coach
3. Tomlin — to be Hall of Fame coach

Not bad.

Imagine that…three good ones in a row…

[oneforthetoe]

Imagine that…three good ones in a row…

Yes, and those that want to ride Tomlin out of town on a rail better take note. There is no guarantee that the fourth one will live up to the standards of the first three. When that day comes, it will be the first head coach picked by the Steelers in close to 60 years without Dan Rooney's influence.

That's kind of scary.

[DesertSteel]

Yes, and those that want to ride Tomlin out of town on a rail better take note. There is no guarantee that the fourth one will live up to the standards of the first three. When that day comes, it will be the first head coach picked by the Steelers in close to 60 years without Dan Rooney's influence.

That's kind of scary.
And imagine how long the Rooney's might keep that poor coach, based on history.

[Craic]

And imagine how long the Rooney's might keep that poor coach, based on history.

I don't know, the Steelers haven't kept a poor coach since the 1960s. So, it's difficult to judge.

[DesertSteel]

I don't know, the Steelers haven't kept a poor coach since the 1960s. So, it's difficult to judge.
Basing it more on coordinators and sticking with HCs through down times. They don't give up on their guy quickly like most franchises.

[oneforthetoe]

Basing it more on coordinators and sticking with HCs through down times. They don't give up on their guy quickly like most franchises.

Unless something unimaginably bad would happen (like winning less than 5 games in two years), I cant see the steelers not giving a head coach at least five years.

[86WARD]

I don't know, the Steelers haven't kept a poor coach since the 1960s. So, it's difficult to judge.

Danny Smith has been here that long?!?

[GBMelBlount]

Steelers coaches since 1969

1. Noll — Hall of Fame coach
2. Cowher — Hall of Fame coach
3. Tomlin — to be Hall of Fame coach

Not bad.

I guess the Steelers are blessed in that regard.

Is there anyone here who thinks Tomlin is as good as Cowher was?

I have seen it said quarterback is THE most important element of a team and coaches success.

Cowher and Tomlin have similar winning percentages over a similar # of years coaching.

Cowher had average quarterbacks for 90% of his tenure and great success with only 2 years with Ben Roethlisberger.

Coach Tomlin had similar success with a HOF quarterback for his ENTIRE tenure except for last year.

[DesertSteel]

I guess the Steelers are blessed in that regard.

Is there anyone here who thinks Tomlin is as good as Cowher was?

I have seen it said quarterback is THE most important element of a team and coaches success.

Cowher and Tomlin have similar winning percentages over a similar # of years coaching.

Cowher had average quarterbacks for 90% of his tenure and great success with only 2 years with Ben Roethlisberger.

Coach Tomlin had similar success with a HOF quarterback for his ENTIRE tenure except for last year.
1. Noll (4-0)
2. Cowher (the 10 point lead record is mind blowing)
3. Tomlin (no consolation prize to be headed to the HOF)

[El Kabong]

I guess the Steelers are blessed in that regard.

Is there anyone here who thinks Tomlin is as good as Cowher was?

I have seen it said quarterback is THE most important element of a team and coaches success.

Cowher and Tomlin have similar winning percentages over a similar # of years coaching.

Cowher had average quarterbacks for 90% of his tenure and great success with only 2 years with Ben Roethlisberger.

Coach Tomlin had similar success with a HOF quarterback for his ENTIRE tenure except for last year.
I think Tomlin and Cowher are pretty equivalent.

[DuckHodges]

we had Ben at his best in the 2010's. Maybe Mahomes is better...

I'm a big time Ben fan and Steeler homer, but there's no contest. Honestly if Mahomes retired today he'd already be talked about as a first ballot hall of famer. Dude is just great. When it's all said and done, and if he has a healthy career, he'll be talked about as one of the top 5 QB's of all time. And this is a conservative estimate.

[Born2Steel]

I'm a big time Ben fan and Steeler homer, but there's no contest. Honestly if Mahomes retired today he'd already be talked about as a first ballot hall of famer. Dude is just great. When it's all said and done, and if he has a healthy career, he'll be talked about as one of the top 5 QB's of all time. And this is a conservative estimate.

Truth. If you look only at Mahomes' yards passing and TDs thrown in his first 5 seasons as starter he's in the conversation. Add in 5 AFCCG, 2 SB wins plus 2 SB MVP, and 2 NFL MVP, he's a lock for the HoF already.

[ALLD]

Mike Tomlin is a great coach. Best in Steelers history.


Were you around in 1969 when Noll took over the worst team in the NFL and possibly professional sports?

[Steeler-in-west]

I'm a big time Ben fan and Steeler homer, but there's no contest. Honestly if Mahomes retired today he'd already be talked about as a first ballot hall of famer. Dude is just great. When it's all said and done, and if he has a healthy career, he'll be talked about as one of the top 5 QB's of all time. And this is a conservative estimate.

Mahomes is great no doubt, but i would still take Ben in his prime. Maybe its his toughness factor in escaping pressure and shedding tacklers, sure a bit of homerism also.

- - - Updated - - -

Even hall of fame coaches have a certain shelf life (Noll was done by 1990). He had coached for 21 years and the game had passed him by, he was older, tired, maybe his message had gotten stale.

Tomlin has been at this for 18 years, i think he's got one more run of 2-3 years with KP and this young team and then maybe his term should be over too. If he's lucky go out on a high note...

[Craic]

Truth. If you look only at Mahomes' yards passing and TDs thrown in his first 5 seasons as starter he's in the conversation. Add in 5 AFCCG, 2 SB wins plus 2 SB MVP, and 2 NFL MVP, he's a lock for the HoF already.

If Mahomes keeps playing as he is, he'll end up one of the best QBs to play the game in this era. Right now, there's no QB I'd take over him, and going back to 2010, there's still no QB I'd take—Brady doesn't count because we're talking about honestly gaining one's skills rather than having the learning curve flattened by cheating. Would anyone take a 2010's Peyton Manning for Mahomes? 2010s Ben for that matter? For Ben, it seems that after 2010, he lost a little bit of that "superman" ability to make things happen. Maybe, maybe, I take a 2010s Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers over Mahomes. Maybe.

[Psycho Ward 86]

If Mahomes keeps playing as he is, he'll end up one of the best QBs to play the game in this era. Right now, there's no QB I'd take over him, and going back to 2010, there's still no QB I'd take—Brady doesn't count because we're talking about honestly gaining one's skills rather than having the learning curve flattened by cheating. Would anyone take a 2010's Peyton Manning for Mahomes? 2010s Ben for that matter? For Ben, it seems that after 2010, he lost a little bit of that "superman" ability to make things happen. Maybe, maybe, I take a 2010s Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers over Mahomes. Maybe.


I dont have the data to prove it, but I think this is a point that gets overlooked alot. As Ben progressed from a skill standpoint as a QB, it felt like his clutch factor regressed over time too. Still an all time great

[El Kabong]

I dont have the data to prove it, but I think this is a point that gets overlooked alot. As Ben progressed from a skill standpoint as a QB, it felt like his clutch factor regressed over time too. Still an all time great
I don't know. Even his last year with us he was still putting TD's on the board late in games to win or come close to winning.

[86WARD]

I don't know. Even his last year with us he was still putting TD's on the board late in games to win or come close to winning.

I agree. When he was calling the plays or audibles or what have you, the offense seemed to click much better than it did when the plays were scripted or called by Canada/Fichtner.

[Born2Steel]

Bradshaw says he called his plays and is an all-time great. Ben played like an all-time great when he was calling his plays. I'm not going to name any of the non-Steelers we could list here also, but there does seem to be a theme to what makes up at least part of a franchise QB. Processing and football IQ are more important than just physical ability, no matter how phenomenal. We had discussion on this forum last season about Kenny beginning to call some of his own plays late in games as well. Not calling him an all-time great obviously, just pointing to a positive development for a rookie QB.

Hopefully the combination of Matt Canada, Mike Sullivan, Glenn Thomas, and David Corley can work together with KP and develop the next Steelers great franchise QB.

[Edman]

I dont have the data to prove it, but I think this is a point that gets overlooked alot. As Ben progressed from a skill standpoint as a QB, it felt like his clutch factor regressed over time too. Still an all time great

Not quite. Ben still had some level of clutch factor to pull something. The problem is that the Defense regressed to mediocrity and couldn't make plays to overcome any mistakes. Ben had to be near mistake-free, and when he wasn't, the Defense wasn't good enough to make stops consistently.

[polamalubeast]

Not quite. Ben still had some level of clutch factor to pull something. The problem is that the Defense regressed to mediocrity and couldn't make plays to overcome any mistakes. Ben had to be near mistake-free, and when he wasn't, the Defense wasn't good enough to make stops consistently.

especially in big game

[ALLD]

Not quite. Ben still had some level of clutch factor to pull something. The problem is that the Defense regressed to mediocrity and couldn't make plays to overcome any mistakes. Ben had to be near mistake-free, and when he wasn't, the Defense wasn't good enough to make stops consistently.

Ben was like a John Elway with pierogies.