Week 13: Ravens Round 1

[Edman]

Throw all records out. Its going down to the end.

The Ravens may be without Lamar, which to me doesn't bode well for the Steelers. Tyler Huntley is a better quarterback.

[polamalubeast]

Huntley had been awful against the steelers last year in week 18....

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202201090rav.htm

[RunNGun]

Throw all records out. Its going down to the end.

The Ravens may be without Lamar, which to me doesn't bode well for the Steelers. Tyler Huntley is a better quarterback.

You're joking right?

[Crow-Magnon]

Well, this is NOT where I’d thought this game would be back in Week One, but here we are.

I truly am clueless about where (and what) the Ravens are right now. Early on they were scoring points at will, and giving them up at will as well. Then the defense clamped down (especially with Roquan Smith) while the offense started to become lackluster. Now everyone but Tucker seems to have issues. The OL was a porous sieve yesterday. They can’t open a hole for a RB at all. The secondary gives up inane yards on lob passes (they made Wilson, who has blown all year, look halfway decent yesterday). Roman’s playcalling sucks (we hear Fire Roman! as much as you hear Fire Canada!). The Ravens are 8-4 and look like a 4-8 team. A 27-7 loss would not surprise me. Not. One. Bit.

[polamalubeast]

You're joking right?

Lamar Jackson is so underrated on this board and by steelers fan overall....Jackson has some issue and he has not been very good since week 4 this year but Huntley the better QB?...This is way too far

- - - Updated - - -


Well, this is NOT where I’d thought this game would be back in Week One, but here we are.

I truly am clueless about where (and what) the Ravens are right now. Early on they were scoring points at will, and giving them up at will as well. Then the defense clamped down (especially with Roquan Smith) while the offense started to become lackluster. Now everyone but Tucker seems to have issues. The OL was a porous sieve yesterday. They can’t open a hole for a RB at all. The secondary gives up inane yards on lob passes (they made Wilson, who has blown all year, look halfway decent yesterday). Roman’s playcalling sucks (we hear Fire Roman! as much as you hear Fire Canada!). The Ravens are 8-4 and look like a 4-8 team. A 27-7 loss would not surprise me. Not. One. Bit.

This is likely to be a 3-4 points game as this is very often the case between his 2 teams in the Harbaugh vs Tomlin matchup since 2008....The steelers won the last 4 games vs Ravens,all very close game

[Crow-Magnon]

We’ll see. I’m not that hopeful.

[polamalubeast]

The steelers have only won twice by 10 points or more against the ravens under Harbaugh!(2014 and 2017)...And they still have a winning record,so his matchup are for the most part always close

[DesertSteel]

Steelers 27-22

[vasteeler]

Throw all records out. Its going down to the end.

The Ravens may be without Lamar, which to me doesn't bode well for the Steelers. Tyler Huntley is a better quarterback.

Lol... I've said the same thing and got laughed at. I still stand by it.

[hawaiiansteeler]

The Ravens may be without Lamar, which to me doesn't bode well for the Steelers. Tyler Huntley is a better quarterback.

Tyler Huntley is 1-3 as the Ravens starting QB and went 16/31 for only 141 yds, 0 TDs with 2 interceptions when he played against us last year.

he's not better than Lamar Jackson.

[polamalubeast]

Lol... I've said the same thing and got laughed at. I still stand by it.

Huntley is better that Jackson at what?

[Mojouw]

Huntley is better that Jackson at what?

Literally nothing. Or at least nothing related to being an NFL QB.

[DuckHodges]

We’ll see. I’m not that hopeful.

I honestly don't know what to think of the Ravens this year. At times they look unbeatable, and then other times it's like what the hell am I watching?

I think we split with the Ravens this year, it's one of those matchups where you throw the records out the window, it's gonna be a game decided by one score and a nail biter at the end.

[DesertSteel]

Steelers are 3 point favorites.

[86WARD]

Steelers are 3 point favorites.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/j9mqKgQvkNOziGICfd/giphy.gif

[polamalubeast]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/j9mqKgQvkNOziGICfd/giphy.gif

For the second week in a row but for the only the 3rd time this year!

[86WARD]

For the second week in a row but for the only the 3rd time this year!

https://media2.giphy.com/media/QO29TZCWS7wctOyvkB/giphy.gif

[Craic]

I honestly don't know what to think of the Ravens this year. At times they look unbeatable, and then other times it's like what the hell am I watching?

I think we split with the Ravens this year, it's one of those matchups where you throw the records out the window, it's gonna be a game decided by one score and a nail biter at the end.

We could be 0-13 or 13-0 going into match with the Ravens and an exact opposite record, and we'd either win or lose by less than 7 points. I love these games but my cardiologist hates these games for me.

[Lady Steel]

I'm hoping they get down and dirty in this game. I just don't want any of our players to get hurt. Kenny must be protected at all costs. I think the Steelers will take this one.

[Rotorhead]

Having Lamar on my fantasy team, I have watched most of his games. He has regressed as a passer completely and doesn’t run as often as past seasons. His accuracy is just horrible this season, it never has been great but is just worse this season.

[Steeler-in-west]

We should have the edge since it’s at home but Watt is not close to 100 percent and I’m afraid Huntley may be able to do some damage. Yeah KP is coming on but I still don’t trust our offense, specially against a good team. I doubt we win in Baltimore so maybe with a little luck we squeak by this week

[DuckHodges]

Huntley is not a good QB wtf are you people smokin?

[polamalubeast]

Throw all records out. Its going down to the end.

The Ravens may be without Lamar, which to me doesn't bode well for the Steelers. Tyler Huntley is a better quarterback.


Lol... I've said the same thing and got laughed at. I still stand by it.



Huntley is better that Jackson at what?


I still waiting......

[hawaiiansteeler]

Report: Lamar Jackson has a sprained PCL in knee

Posted by Myles Simmons on December 6, 2022

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/12/06/report-lamar-jackson-has-a-sprained-pcl-in-knee/

[DuckHodges]

I still waiting......

Mason Rudolph has more impressive stats than Huntley

[vasteeler]

I still waiting......

Lol... I'm allowed to have my own opinion, right? I owe you no answer... ��

[polamalubeast]

Lol... I'm allowed to have my own opinion, right? I owe you no answer... ��

When we do takes like that, we need to say why since some steelers fans (not just in the board) act as if Lamar is a scrub....

[Mojouw]

nvrmnd

[Edman]

When we do takes like that, we need to say why since some steelers fans (not just in the board) act as if Lamar is a scrub....

Lamar Jackson is nowhere near a "scrub". He's an incredible athlete and must be accounted for every time he steps on the field.. He's just not a good Quarterback. He has his clear (and glaring) limitations that he overcomes with his mobility and athleticism, and Greg Roman tries very hard to hide away. He doesn't throw the ball very well, and is mediocre when he is forced to make throws. There's a reason why the Ravens aren't bending over backward to break the bank for him despite an MVP campaign in 2019.

Steelers fans have lived through the years of Kordell Stewart. Howitzer arm, could run like nobody else, but when the playoffs came and he was required to do a little more than what he did, he consistently faceplanted. His flaws consistently showed up and magnified. Kordell was not a sharp thrower of the football and made bad decisions resulting in lots of turnovers.

Now Tyler Huntley being "better" than Lamar doesn't say much, Huntley isn't great but he is a better in terms of quarterbacking and I see him as more of a danger to the Steelers.

[86WARD]

Jackson's numbers aren't that far off of Josh Allen's when you look at the numbers on paper. A little less in pass yards, better QB-rating, more wins, better Y/A, less TDs, a lot less INTs, better completion percentage, less Y/G, better QB Rating, more rushing yards, less rushing TDs. 11 less games started than Allen. Allen throws a better looking ball, has a stronger arm but the end results are pretty close. You take out the 11 games Allen played in 2018 and the numbers are even closer. Showing the numbers to an "innocent bystander" and have them choose one or the other to QB their team, I'd be willing to bet that it is close enough that it would come down to wins.

To say he's terrible and not a QB when his numbers compare to what everyone wants to call the gold standard is a bit ignorant. It's hard to argue when the production is there...

[Mojouw]

Do people watch football? Or just recycle old and outdated takes?

Jackson is a good QB. Maybe he gets there in a different way. But he’s there. It’s just wrong to state otherwise.

[HollywoodSteel]

I don't think Huntley is Lamar Jackson or anything, but he is a bigger threat to us specifically than the last couple of QBs we faced because those guys were statues, while Huntley can be an efficient passer as well as a threat with his legs. That kind of QB always gives us problems. We absolutely can not count on our defense to just shut down the Ravens' offense because they have a backup QB in there. Our offense will have to put together scoring drives that end in TDs against a pretty good defense.

This game will be tough because the Ravens are always tough against us, and because we're not a team that dominates for four quarters against anyone.

[polamalubeast]

Lamar Jackson is nowhere near a "scrub". He's an incredible athlete and must be accounted for every time he steps on the field.. He's just not a good Quarterback. He has his clear (and glaring) limitations that he overcomes with his mobility and athleticism, and Greg Roman tries very hard to hide away. He doesn't throw the ball very well, and is mediocre when he is forced to make throws. There's a reason why the Ravens aren't bending over backward to break the bank for him despite an MVP campaign in 2019.

Steelers fans have lived through the years of Kordell Stewart. Howitzer arm, could run like nobody else, but when the playoffs came and he was required to do a little more than what he did, he consistently faceplanted. His flaws consistently showed up and magnified. Kordell was not a sharp thrower of the football and made bad decisions resulting in lots of turnovers.

Now Tyler Huntley being "better" than Lamar doesn't say much, Huntley isn't great but he is a better in terms of quarterbacking and I see him as more of a danger to the Steelers.

The reason why Lamar Jackson don't have a contract is because Jackson want a fully guaranted contract....Compared Jackson to Kordell is way off




Do people watch football? Or just recycle old and outdated takes?

Jackson is a good QB. Maybe he gets there in a different way. But he’s there. It’s just wrong to state otherwise.

I don't think....




I don't think Huntley is Lamar Jackson or anything, but he is a bigger threat to us specifically than the last couple of QBs we faced because those guys were statues, while Huntley can be an efficient passer as well as a threat with his legs. That kind of QB always gives us problems. We absolutely can not count on our defense to just shut down the Ravens' offense because they have a backup QB in there. Our offense will have to put together scoring drives that end in TDs against a pretty good defense.

This game will be tough because the Ravens are always tough against us, and because we're not a team that dominates for four quarters against anyone.

Huntley was just pathetic in the last game of the regular season against us last year....Only 13 points even if the ravens had almost 250 rushing yards

[86WARD]

Do people watch football? Or just recycle old and outdated takes?

Jackson is a good QB. Maybe he gets there in a different way. But he’s there. It’s just wrong to state otherwise.

I like to say Jackson sucks as a QB just to troll the Lamar fans...lol

[DesertSteel]

Do people watch football? Or just recycle old and outdated takes?

Jackson is a good QB. Maybe he gets there in a different way. But he’s there. It’s just wrong to state otherwise.
I think it's an overreaction to the hype that he's a top 3 QB. I personally don't think he's anywhere near that level. I'd put him around 10-11. Honestly, he doesn't strike fear in me when we play the Ravens. I hope they re-sign him for a boatload of guaranteed money.

[Mojouw]

I like to say Jackson sucks as a QB just to troll the Lamar fans...lol


I think it's an overreaction to the hype that he's a top 3 QB. I personally don't think he's anywhere near that level. I'd put him around 10-11. Honestly, he doesn't strike fear in me when we play the Ravens. I hope they re-sign him for a boatload of guaranteed money.

Both fair and reasonable positions to take.

I wouid put LJ at around 5 or so. But I can see where people go lower. For me, a guy trapped in a system with a bad OC (to be fair, Roman was the OC that younger Lamar needed but now he's holding developed Lamar back) and inferior weapons that has made the progress he has made each season, is a really really good QB.

But that he sucks or that Huntley is better. Those are just uninformed and outdated bad opinions.

The most fun thing that could happen right now is if a magical genie could put Lamar Jackson on the 49ers. The video game level fireworks that would ensue would be so much fun to watch!

[polamalubeast]

For me Lamar is around 5 to 10

[Rotorhead]

For me Lamar is around 5 to 10

Closer to 10 for me, like I stated earlier, his accuracy is way off this season. Don’t know what the reason is, but when teams shut down the run game and force LJ to beat them, it rarely happens or is really close. If we are to beat the Ravens, we have to focus on stopping the run game and getting our offense in the EZ.

[DuckHodges]

Closer to 10 for me, like I stated earlier, his accuracy is way off this season. Don’t know what the reason is, but when teams shut down the run game and force LJ to beat them, it rarely happens or is really close. If we are to beat the Ravens, we have to focus on stopping the run game and getting our offense in the EZ.

He's Kordell Stewart. When the run game is working and you have to account for it, he can burn you. If you have the run shut down and he's forced to win with his arm, he's less than good. Overall I mean he's a good player and will get you to the playoffs consistently but I don't see him winning a SB.

[vasteeler]

You guys are generous. No way he's top ten.
Right off the top of head of who I ( and I can't stress that enough) think it's better

Allen
Mahomes
Brady
Rogers
Burrow
Tua
Hurts
Prescott
Watson
Cousins
Tannenhill (sp...lol)
Stafford
Then maybe Lamar

[polamalubeast]

He's Kordell Stewart. When the run game is working and you have to account for it, he can burn you. If you have the run shut down and he's forced to win with his arm, he's less than good. Overall I mean he's a good player and will get you to the playoffs consistently but I don't see him winning a SB.

It's very hard to shutdown a running game when you have a QB as Lamar Jackson as QB since this running game has so many options and Lamar opens the middle for the RBs because of his mobility....The Ravens had like 43 games in a row with at least 100 rushing yards at one point, the most by a team since the Steelers in the 1970s... The Ravens' problem since last year is that their RB group is one of the worst in the league due to injuries

Jackson is a much better passer than Kordell was and it's not close

[polamalubeast]

You guys are generous. No way he's top ten.
Right off the top of head of who I ( and I can't stress that enough) think it's better

Allen
Mahomes
Brady
Rogers
Burrow
Tua
Hurts
Prescott
Watson
Cousins
Tannenhill (sp...lol)
Stafford
Then maybe Lamar

Tannenhill,Cousins? please!

QB as Watson did not play since 2020 in the regular season before the last game,we will see how well he will performs with the time with the browns

Hurts and Tua are great this year,but this is their first year of elite play,so we will see...Rodgers and Brady are not played well this year,maybe they are too old now....Stafford has a down year too.Prescott is very good but Lamar is a better playmaker.I agree for Burrow,Mahomes and Allen

[vasteeler]

Tannenhill,Cousins? please!

QB as Watson did not play since 2020 in the regular season before the last game,we will see how well he will performs with the time with the browns

Hurts and Tua are great this year,but this is their first year of elite play,so we will see...Rodgers and Brady are not played well this year,maybe they are too old now....Stafford has a down year too.Prescott is very good but Lamar is a better playmaker.I agree for Burrow,Mahomes and Allen

Tannenhill and Cousins both have a higher career QB rating...

[polamalubeast]

Tannenhill and Cousins both have a higher career QB rating...

You can't ignore the legs of Lamar Jackson.....

[vasteeler]

You can't ignore the legs of Lamar Jackson.....

That I agree with, none of the others that I have listed can touch Lamar's athletic ability. I just think that they all are better passers of the football.

[Mojouw]

Tannenhill and Cousins both have a higher career QB rating...

No. They don't. Cousins does - by about a point. Tannehill does not.

Tannehill: 92 -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TannRy00.htm
Jackson: 96.7 -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackLa00.htm

Also, if QB rating is your ranking metric, how do you place multiple QBs with lower career QB rating ahead (Tua, Hurts, and Stafford)?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Is anybody really surprised that Jackson is injured? You play an offense where your QB is involved in the run game often and defenders get hits on the QB. Over a few years the hits on the QB accumulate and your QB should eventually become more of a passer and less of a runner. Running your QB is not a recipe for long term health and success in the NFL.

The thing is that Huntley can still run the offense effectively enough to win this game, but maybe the Steelers get more hits on the QB and the Steelers Offense can somehow muster 21 points or more.

[DesertSteel]

Yeah RBs have a shelf life of 5 years, on average, but we think Lamar is going to play till 40? Lol. The cumulative effect of taking hits like a RB does will shorten his career dramatically.

[SteelMember]

Is anybody really surprised that Jackson is injured? You play an offense where your QB is involved in the run game often and defenders get hits on the QB. Over a few years the hits on the QB accumulate and your QB should eventually become more of a passer and less of a runner. Running your QB is not a recipe for long term health and success in the NFL.

The thing is that Huntley can still run the offense effectively enough to win this game, but maybe the Steelers get more hits on the QB and the Steelers Offense can somehow muster 21 points or more.

Players like RGIII could be the example of this rule... not the exception.
I'm not surprised either. Honestly, just thought it would have happened earlier.

[Mojouw]

What is everyone's expectations on Josh Allen injury? He runs about the same # of times per season as Jackson.
What about Daniel Jones, Justin Fields, and Jalen Hurts?

I am not sure I buy into the injury story-line. Jackson based on the highlight I saw, was hurt scrambling around in the pocket trying to get free to pass.
RG III was hurt rolling out to pass. And mostly passed throughout the final game that his knee disintegrated during.

[86WARD]

I think he’s Top-7 right now and going forward (immediate future) for me.

In this order:


Pickett
Mahomes
Hurts
Allen
Herbert
Burrow
Jackson
Rodgers

[Crow-Magnon]

Is anybody really surprised that Jackson is injured? You play an offense where your QB is involved in the run game often and defenders get hits on the QB. Over a few years the hits on the QB accumulate and your QB should eventually become more of a passer and less of a runner. Running your QB is not a recipe for long term health and success in the NFL.

The thing is that Huntley can still run the offense effectively enough to win this game, but maybe the Steelers get more hits on the QB and the Steelers Offense can somehow muster 21 points or more.

Per ESPN: On Sunday, Jackson was hurt on the final play of the first quarter when he was sacked from behind by Broncos linebacker Jonathon Cooper. It appeared as if Jackson's left knee was driven into the ground as Cooper landed on top of his back.

Most QB’s that rush on designed run plays are not injured being hit while rushing. Jackson got injured last year. Also during a sack.

[Steeler-in-west]

I think he’s Top-7 right now and going forward (immediate future) for me.

In this order:


Pickett
Mahomes
Hurts
Allen
Herbert
Burrow
Jackson
Rodgers

by the end of KP’s rookie contract

[DesertSteel]

QBs I'd rather have long-term than Lamar:

Allen
Burrow
Watson (on-field only)
Pickett (projection)
Mahomes
Herbert
Hurts
Prescott
Lawrence

QBs that are playing better than Lamar (not listed above):

Cousins
Geno

QBs close to Lamar's level of play (not mentioned above):

Kyler
Fields
Carr

I didn't even mention Brady, Stafford or Rodgers. My point: Lamar is not worth a $250M fully guaranteed contract.

[Rotorhead]

What is everyone's expectations on Josh Allen injury? He runs about the same # of times per season as Jackson.
What about Daniel Jones, Justin Fields, and Jalen Hurts?

I am not sure I buy into the injury story-line. Jackson based on the highlight I saw, was hurt scrambling around in the pocket trying to get free to pass.
RG III was hurt rolling out to pass. And mostly passed throughout the final game that his knee disintegrated during.

Allen is built differently than Lamar, he is more like a big bruising back compared to Lamar, who is more like a scat back. I don’t think Allen will keep up the way he runs very much longer. He needs to learn to slide more often. If he doesn’t, he will have a shorter career.

[Mojouw]

Allen is built differently than Lamar, he is more like a big bruising back compared to Lamar, who is more like a scat back. I don’t think Allen will keep up the way he runs very much longer. He needs to learn to slide more often. If he doesn’t, he will have a shorter career.

I have no idea if this is true, but the Ravens list Lamar at 230. Bills list Allen at 237.

I’ve been hearing about how running QBs will have short careers and too many injuries my whole football watching life. And then it just doesn’t usually happen. And when it does it’s on passing plays.

Is Jackson worth $250 guaranteed? No idea. Thankfully I don’t have to decide that.

I do know that the idea that he’s a worse QB than Huntley is dumb.

And I’m not sure these other stories we all tell ourselves about “running” QBs hold up. Especially when those QBs progress as a passer. Lamar has done that.

[DesertSteel]

For the past two seasons, 24 games, Lamar has 33 TDs and 20 Ints. Not elite. He had one great year - 2019, followed by a good year - 2020. Otherwise, not so much.

[86WARD]

My point: Lamar is not worth a $250M fully guaranteed contract.

No Player is…

[Mojouw]

Moving forward, most projections have the NFL salary cap increasing...by a lot. $225 million in 2023 and $255 million in 2024 seem like reasonable figures based on the various projections/guesses out there.

QBs now get paid $45 million in average annual value. Teams do funny things with the various yearly cap hits. For reference, Rodgers gets $50 million and Carr gets $40 million. I think it is reasonable to assume that Jackson is going to ask for somewhere in between those numbers.

So...is guaranteeing about 10% of your salary cap for the next 10 years worth it? Based on what the offense looked like against the Broncos without Jackson? I think the answer has to be "Yes". What is their other choice? Start over at the QB position with a roster that is ready to win right now and is designed to "work" on offense with Jackson and not "Insert QB Here"?

Say they let Jackson walk. Goff could be the "best" veteran on the market. Goff would be very bad in system where his best WR is Devin Duvernay...

[86WARD]

Moving forward, most projections have the NFL salary cap increasing...by a lot. $225 million in 2023 and $255 million in 2024 seem like reasonable figures based on the various projections/guesses out there.

QBs now get paid $45 million in average annual value. Teams do funny things with the various yearly cap hits. For reference, Rodgers gets $50 million and Carr gets $40 million. I think it is reasonable to assume that Jackson is going to ask for somewhere in between those numbers.

So...is guaranteeing about 10% of your salary cap for the next 10 years worth it? Based on what the offense looked like against the Broncos without Jackson? I think the answer has to be "Yes". What is their other choice? Start over at the QB position with a roster that is ready to win right now and is designed to "work" on offense with Jackson and not "Insert QB Here"?

Say they let Jackson walk. Goff could be the "best" veteran on the market. Goff would be very bad in system where his best WR is Devin Duvernay...

That money that Rodgers and Carr gets isn't guaranteed money though. No QB is worth $250M fully guaranteed. Maybe $50M in "contract speak" but fully guaranteed? No way.

[Mojouw]

That money that Rodgers and Carr gets isn't guaranteed money though. No QB is worth $250M fully guaranteed. Maybe $50M in "contract speak" but fully guaranteed? No way.

You would basically be guaranteeing half of Jackson's contract if you did a 10 year deal. Based on his age, that seems like a reasonable timeline.

I realize the yearly cap #'s would look different but each season would be like $25 million guaranteed cash and $20 million in non-guaranteed cash.

Even if you only guaranteed like $150 million of the deal (in line with Mahomes contract) and still paid Jackson $45 million per year....how much of that contract are you likely to pay out? He's your franchise QB in his early 20's. So most of it? Even if he gets hurt and misses an entire season....your going to give him another season or two to try and return to form.

Kind of like how people always talk about how the Steelers typically pay out the full contract regardless of guarantees. Ravens have approached it in a similar manner over the years. So if you are going into the situation assuming you are paying the thing out...what's the big deal? Keep the engine that generates wins for your team happy.

[86WARD]

You would basically be guaranteeing half of Jackson's contract if you did a 10 year deal. Based on his age, that seems like a reasonable timeline.

I realize the yearly cap #'s would look different but each season would be like $25 million guaranteed cash and $20 million in non-guaranteed cash.

Even if you only guaranteed like $150 million of the deal (in line with Mahomes contract) and still paid Jackson $45 million per year....how much of that contract are you likely to pay out? He's your franchise QB in his early 20's. So most of it? Even if he gets hurt and misses an entire season....your going to give him another season or two to try and return to form.

Kind of like how people always talk about how the Steelers typically pay out the full contract regardless of guarantees. Ravens have approached it in a similar manner over the years. So if you are going into the situation assuming you are paying the thing out...what's the big deal? Keep the engine that generates wins for your team happy.

Jackson is definitely worth the money he is going to get paid. I'm just saying if he wants $250M guaranteed, he's not worth that deal...

[polamalubeast]

You would basically be guaranteeing half of Jackson's contract if you did a 10 year deal. Based on his age, that seems like a reasonable timeline.

I realize the yearly cap #'s would look different but each season would be like $25 million guaranteed cash and $20 million in non-guaranteed cash.

Even if you only guaranteed like $150 million of the deal (in line with Mahomes contract) and still paid Jackson $45 million per year....how much of that contract are you likely to pay out? He's your franchise QB in his early 20's. So most of it? Even if he gets hurt and misses an entire season....your going to give him another season or two to try and return to form.

Kind of like how people always talk about how the Steelers typically pay out the full contract regardless of guarantees. Ravens have approached it in a similar manner over the years. So if you are going into the situation assuming you are paying the thing out...what's the big deal? Keep the engine that generates wins for your team happy.

It was a 6 years deal,not a 10 years deal that the ravens had offer to Jackson

1568914637483114496

1568914638552682496




The Ravens also balked at Jackson's wish for a fully guaranteed deal similar to Deshaun Watson's, sources told ESPN, prompting the sides to table contract talks until after the 2022 season.

Sources told ESPN the Ravens' proposed contract was believed to pay Jackson a higher average salary and more guaranteed money than deals signed this summer by Broncos quarterback Russell Wilson and Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray.

Wilson signed a $242.5 million deal earlier this month that averaged $48.5 million annually and included $161 million guaranteed, about six weeks after Murray received a $230.5 million deal that averaged $46 million per year and included $189.5 million guaranteed.

But the issue for Jackson wasn't Wilson's deal or Murray's so much as it was Watson's, according to sources. The Browns signed Watson to a fully guaranteed $230 million contract, and Jackson wanted to match it, sources said.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34566275/sources-believe-lamar-jackson-turned-baltimore-ravens-contract-offer-worth-250-million

[Mojouw]

It was a 6 years deal,not a 10 years deal that the ravens had offer to Jackson

1568914637483114496

1568914638552682496

- - - Updated - - -



https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34566275/sources-believe-lamar-jackson-turned-baltimore-ravens-contract-offer-worth-250-million

Sure. But if I’m the Ravens, I counter that if you want that much guaranteed, gotta give me more years.

Ultimately, I think they’ll cave unless the owners have basically told the Ravens to hold the line.

[polamalubeast]

The offer was fair....With this offer,he was likely to have between 200 and 300 millions for a 6 years period,this is better that none guaranteed after this year for Lamar....The franchise tag is the likely outcome for next year and the year after....Lamar don't have a agent too

Betting on yourself can work (like Aaron Judge in baseball) but it can turn against you big time if it doesn't as we have seen this often too in sports.I'm far from certain Lamar would have a fully guaranteed contract like Watson on the open market because of his style, so i understand the ravens being careful about that

[Rotorhead]

I don’t think Lamar would thrive in 90% of teams the way he plays. The ravens built their offense around LJs abilities (imagine if we had an OC that could do something like that).

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I never understand why fans get upset about a guy making money in sports, or deeming him not worth a certain value. Does it really matter in your lives?

No matter what Lamar Jackson gets, good for him. If the Ravens retain him then great, because its going to cost them a lot of money, tighten up their cap so they cant get as many free agents and the truth of the matter is that he hasnt shown that he can win a playoff game with his arm, when the opposing defense takes away the Ravens run game.

I personally hope the Ravens pay him more than any other NFL QB, because it should make them a worse team in the long run.

[polamalubeast]

I never understand why fans get upset about a guy making money in sports, or deeming him not worth a certain value. Does it really matter in your lives?

No matter what Lamar Jackson gets, good for him. If the Ravens retain him then great, because its going to cost them a lot of money, tighten up their cap so they cant get as many free agents and the truth of the matter is that he hasnt shown that he can win a playoff game with his arm, when the opposing defense takes away the Ravens run game.

I personally hope the Ravens pay him more than any other NFL QB, because it should make them a worse team in the long run.

Who is upset on this board?

[DesertSteel]

I never understand why fans get upset about a guy making money in sports, or deeming him not worth a certain value. Does it really matter in your lives?

No matter what Lamar Jackson gets, good for him. If the Ravens retain him then great, because its going to cost them a lot of money, tighten up their cap so they cant get as many free agents and the truth of the matter is that he hasnt shown that he can win a playoff game with his arm, when the opposing defense takes away the Ravens run game.

I personally hope the Ravens pay him more than any other NFL QB, because it should make them a worse team in the long run.

As I've stated, I hope they break the bank for Lamar, but it has nothing to do with him. I think it would be in their worst interests long term and that is good for the Steelers long term. I completely agree with your final comment.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Who is upset on this board?

Just wait for the next Steeler in his contract year to get paid. It always happens.

Right now I would say that there are lots of Steelers fans upset about what Dionte Johnson got paid. When JuJu wanted a contract they bitch about what he isnt worth. Right now posters are saying that Jackson isnt worth a certain amount guaranteed, while Massage Watson got $230million guaranteed.

If Jackson sets a new market at higher than Watson, good for him. Whoever gets paid, I feel happy for them because iit is what the market pays and it isnt my money. Its just like NIL in college, if the market will pay an athlete that generates millions for their school, I am glad they get it. Its just capitalism.

[Mojouw]

If Jackson gets a full or close to full guarantee like he wants, people are going to lose their minds. Because that means that any top 10-ish "franchise" QB is going to want a fully guaranteed deal moving forward.

Steelers specific, that means Pickett. Factor in NFL salary cap inflation....yada yada yada....KP and his agent could be in a position to ask for $300 million guaranteed in 3-4 years.

That's gonna go over like lead ballon.

Also, Jackson costs the Ravens no matter what. The guarantee really only "backfires" if Jackson is hurt so badly he has to retire and can no longer play. He's getting paid $40-50 million per season one way or the other. If the Ravens do not pay him that, then he's going to go to a team that will. The Jets and Panthers would fist-fight in the street on pay per view to haven an opportunity to give Jackson $50 million per season to QB their team.

So leave the guarantee out of it. If you were the Ravens would you resign Jackson to be your starting QB for the next 5-10 years? Or would you prefer to start over?

[polamalubeast]

Just wait for the next Steeler in his contract year to get paid. It always happens.

Right now I would say that there are lots of Steelers fans upset about what Dionte Johnson got paid. When JuJu wanted a contract they bitch about what he isnt worth. Right now posters are saying that Jackson isnt worth a certain amount guaranteed, while Massage Watson got $230million guaranteed.

If Jackson sets a new market at higher than Watson, good for him. Whoever gets paid, I feel happy for them because iit is what the market pays and it isnt my money. Its just like NIL in college, if the market will pay an athlete that generates millions for their school, I am glad they get it. Its just capitalism.

Many understand this situation

The reason why a lot of bitch on Johnson's contract is because he's terrible right now...If he would perform better, no one would say a word about it...Not hard to understand

I also have a problem for players who complain even with a big contract no matter what and no,the guaranteed money won't solve the problem, it's just going to be worse....Just to look in the NBA every offseason, it's just awful and a true circus

For Watson, the problem is that he was like rewarded despite his major off-field issue and he had asked for a trade just 5 months after his huge contract in 2020, sorry, I have no respect for that


If Lamar has the contract he wants, great for him and I have no problem with that if he's not trying to break the system but I'm just saying it's a risky strategy by him and i want to see nobody criticize the ravens if jackson has below what he wanted if he is on the open market in 2025, but i believe he will be traded in 2024 if he doesn't have a long term contract by then with the ravens

[86WARD]

If Jackson gets a full or close to full guarantee like he wants, people are going to lose their minds. Because that means that any top 10-ish "franchise" QB is going to want a fully guaranteed deal moving forward.

Steelers specific, that means Pickett. Factor in NFL salary cap inflation....yada yada yada....KP and his agent could be in a position to ask for $300 million guaranteed in 3-4 years.

That's gonna go over like lead ballon.

Also, Jackson costs the Ravens no matter what. The guarantee really only "backfires" if Jackson is hurt so badly he has to retire and can no longer play. He's getting paid $40-50 million per season one way or the other. If the Ravens do not pay him that, then he's going to go to a team that will. The Jets and Panthers would fist-fight in the street on pay per view to haven an opportunity to give Jackson $50 million per season to QB their team.

So leave the guarantee out of it. If you were the Ravens would you resign Jackson to be your starting QB for the next 5-10 years? Or would you prefer to start over?

That’s the thing though…if you want that Top-10 QB (who doesn’t want a Top-10. QB?) you’re going to have to pay because if you don’t, another team will…and if you don’t, you might not be that good…

[Mojouw]

That’s the thing though…if you want that Top-10 QB (who doesn’t want a Top-10. QB?) you’re going to have to pay because if you don’t, another team will…and if you don’t, you might not be that good…

Right?

So just guarantee the deal and move on.

75% of the time or more, you’re paying out that $250 million to a QB.

I guess I’m having a hard time seeing the big deal?

[NCSteeler]

It was a 6 years deal,not a 10 years deal that the ravens had offer to Jackson

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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34566275/sources-believe-lamar-jackson-turned-baltimore-ravens-contract-offer-worth-250-millionWhat your saying is The Browns fucked up? That seems simple . Lol. They over paid for a masseuse molestor

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[86WARD]

Right?

So just guarantee the deal and move on.

75% of the time or more, you’re paying out that $250 million to a QB.

I guess I’m having a hard time seeing the big deal?

I kinda get what your saying and in hindsight (Ben Era), that makes 100% sense. But, what if he gets a career ending injury on the first snap after signing that deal? Obviously the worst case scenario. But what if he does? What if he gets Theismaned and is done forever? That’s a big chunk that would cripple a team for a very, very long time…

Is it likely to happen that way? Probably not but there is a chance every time he snaps the ball that it could happen, especially for a guy like Jackson…

[cubanstogie]

16-15, last second FG. Sadly probably a 59 yarder by Tucker.

[Mojouw]

I kinda get what your saying and in hindsight (Ben Era), that makes 100% sense. But, what if he gets a career ending injury on the first snap after signing that deal? Obviously the worst case scenario. But what if he does? What if he gets Theismaned and is done forever? That’s a big chunk that would cripple a team for a very, very long time…

Is it likely to happen that way? Probably not but there is a chance every time he snaps the ball that it could happen, especially for a guy like Jackson…

True. There’s no debating that any QB runs that risk.

I’m not certain I buy into the idea that Jackson’s risk is unreasonably elevated. Randall Cunningham played a long time in a more violent era.

I just think that QB contracts are just going to start being guaranteed. Or possibly even all “star” players.

Not sure it’s the risk that some fear it is.

Anytime you pay a QB it’s a massive use of cap resources and the overwhelming majority play out their contracts.

[HollywoodSteel]

Just wait for the next Steeler in his contract year to get paid. It always happens.

Right now I would say that there are lots of Steelers fans upset about what Dionte Johnson got paid. When JuJu wanted a contract they bitch about what he isnt worth. Right now posters are saying that Jackson isnt worth a certain amount guaranteed, while Massage Watson got $230million guaranteed.

If Jackson sets a new market at higher than Watson, good for him. Whoever gets paid, I feel happy for them because iit is what the market pays and it isnt my money. Its just like NIL in college, if the market will pay an athlete that generates millions for their school, I am glad they get it. Its just capitalism.

I think most people look at this incorrectly. It is kind of capitalist adjacent because it is a capped system.

It isn't a class struggle between millionaires and billionaires. That happens during negotiations regarding profit percentages between the players' union and the owners. But giant individual contracts are a struggle between superstar players and OTHER PLAYERS.

Giant individual contracts don't actually cost an owner any more money, it just costs him (and the fans of the team, which is we care about such things) flexibility to distribute the same money amongst other quality players, and potentially having a better team.

That's why I never understand why journeymen quality veterans are so "happy" for superstars getting a larger percentage of a fixed pie. It means absolutely nothing in terms of net cost to the owner, it is only a potential cost to OTHER PLAYERS who are then more likely to get cut for someone cheaper, and perhaps less skilled. Yay solidarity!

[Born2Steel]

True. There’s no debating that any QB runs that risk.

I’m not certain I buy into the idea that Jackson’s risk is unreasonably elevated. Randall Cunningham played a long time in a more violent era.

I just think that QB contracts are just going to start being guaranteed. Or possibly even all “star” players.

Not sure it’s the risk that some fear it is.

Anytime you pay a QB it’s a massive use of cap resources and the overwhelming majority play out their contracts.

Everything you are pointing out makes total sense. However, guaranteeing full contracts in a league with a hard salary cap is the part that makes no sense. If I sign a player to $50M/year for 5 years, he makes $250M, sure. But if he is unable to fulfill some or all of the 5yr part, a different player can come in for that $50M. If the entire $250M is guaranteed, I can't bring in another $50M caliber player.

The part that gets completely muddy is 'franchise QB'. I would not want my team to fully guarantee a contract like that. BUT, if I were LJ, I would not sign a franchise tag either. So...I just wait to see what happens.

[Mojouw]

Everything you are pointing out makes total sense. However, guaranteeing full contracts in a league with a hard salary cap is the part that makes no sense. If I sign a player to $50M/year for 5 years, he makes $250M, sure. But if he is unable to fulfill some or all of the 5yr part, a different player can come in for that $50M. If the entire $250M is guaranteed, I can't bring in another $50M caliber player.

The part that gets completely muddy is 'franchise QB'. I would not want my team to fully guarantee a contract like that. BUT, if I were LJ, I would not sign a franchise tag either. So...I just wait to see what happens.

All true. It’s a risk. But I don’t think it’s as big a risk as it’s made out to be.

Say your $250 million guaranteed contract franchise QB suffers catastrophic injury in Year 2. Finish the year with his backup. Year 3 you’re likely to carry the contract even if it was NONguaranteed hoping against hope your franchise cornerstone somehow recovers. Likely play Year 3 with the backup or some relatively inexpensive veteran stopgap. Now, year 4 is where the actual guaranteed pain starts. BUT…aren’t you likely drafting a cheap rookie high in the draft at this point? So you pay $60 million for the position in Year 4 and 5. It sucks that $50 million is going to a guy whose on his way to retirement but it’s counterbalanced by your new el cheapo rookie deal QB.

I’m not saying this is a great idea or team friendly terms but I’m skeptical that it’s this franchise wrecking decision.

[86WARD]

What if you think your QB might be a franchise guy and then turns out he’s…meh…good at times but above average and not really a franchise guy. You’re stuck with that guy for however long. What if you have $250M to Baker Mayfield but thought he might be Patrick Mahomes because he mad a couple side arm type plays??? Then what?

[Mojouw]

What if you think your QB might be a franchise guy and then turns out he’s…meh…good at times but above average and not really a franchise guy. You’re stuck with that guy for however long. What if you have $250M to Baker Mayfield but thought he might be Patrick Mahomes because he mad a couple side arm type plays??? Then what?

You can’t eliminate risk.

Most of the time with QBs you have 3-4 years of their rookie deal to make your evaluation. If after 3-4 years you can’t determine if the guy is good or not, your team and GM likely has bigger problems as well.

Scenario you laid out has happened once. Carson Wentz. Other than that, never happened.

I’ve never said this is a good idea. Just that it’s coming. Teams will try and stave it off. If it’s not Jackson, then maybe Herbert. Or a guy like Micah Parsons or Justin Jefferson is going to figure they’ve got their team over a barrel.

I really think that guarantees are coming for the top few guys at their positions.

[Born2Steel]

All true. It’s a risk. But I don’t think it’s as big a risk as it’s made out to be.

Say your $250 million guaranteed contract franchise QB suffers catastrophic injury in Year 2. Finish the year with his backup. Year 3 you’re likely to carry the contract even if it was NONguaranteed hoping against hope your franchise cornerstone somehow recovers. Likely play Year 3 with the backup or some relatively inexpensive veteran stopgap. Now, year 4 is where the actual guaranteed pain starts. BUT…aren’t you likely drafting a cheap rookie high in the draft at this point? So you pay $60 million for the position in Year 4 and 5. It sucks that $50 million is going to a guy whose on his way to retirement but it’s counterbalanced by your new el cheapo rookie deal QB.

I’m not saying this is a great idea or team friendly terms but I’m skeptical that it’s this franchise wrecking decision.

Yes. There is always going to be risk. I just think the better move for the team is the one with less risk. If the player simply wants what they want and nothing else will do, sometimes the risk is better to move on. Sometimes it’s better to pay up. How do we view Watson’s deal vs the Browns risk right now today? When that deal was made Watson was considered a top 5(?) QB.

[Mojouw]

Yes. There is always going to be risk. I just think the better move for the team is the one with less risk. If the player simply wants what they want and nothing else will do, sometimes the risk is better to move on. Sometimes it’s better to pay up. How do we view Watson’s deal vs the Browns risk right now today? When that deal was made Watson was considered a top 5(?) QB.

It looks awful. All that cash and you played like the worst QB in the league.

The best thing for the teams would be to not pay these guys at all.

I think that in the specific case of QBs the crippling risk can be some what mitigated. And someone is going to do this.

Say the Ravens let Jackson get to the open market after 2 franchise tag seasons. He’s still under 30. Playing well. There will be at least 2 teams competing to sign him. I think there’s a non zero chance some moribund team uses a full guarantee to ensure they get their guy.

[Born2Steel]

It looks awful. All that cash and you played like the worst QB in the league.

The best thing for the teams would be to not pay these guys at all.

I think that in the specific case of QBs the crippling risk can be some what mitigated. And someone is going to do this.

Say the Ravens let Jackson get to the open market after 2 franchise tag seasons. He’s still under 30. Playing well. There will be at least 2 teams competing to sign him. I think there’s a non zero chance some moribund team uses a full guarantee to ensure they get their guy.

For the record, I’m all for players making whatever they can get. I’m glad Watt got what he did. I’m also glad it’s not fully guaranteed, if only for the ability to borrow from the bank of Watt during future moves. But the franchise QB is just a different level altogether. There really is no cap on what they are worth but they are also the reason there is a rookie pay scale.

[Crow-Magnon]

I may be wrong, but I think the issue owners have with “fully guaranteed” contracts is that the $$$ needs to be put in escrow up front. So a $250-$300M contract is a chunk of change to lay out at once. And if many contracts starts heading in that direction, it’s going to be a serious drain on available liquid capital.

[DuckHodges]

had a nightmare last night that the steelers lost 30-13 and kenny pickett got benched after only completing 3 passes with 24 attempts :chuckle:

[Mojouw]

I may be wrong, but I think the issue owners have with “fully guaranteed” contracts is that the $$$ needs to be put in escrow up front. So a $250-$300M contract is a chunk of change to lay out at once. And if many contracts starts heading in that direction, it’s going to be a serious drain on available liquid capital.

That’s a really big point. I wonder how other pro sports handle this?

[86WARD]

I may be wrong, but I think the issue owners have with “fully guaranteed” contracts is that the $$$ needs to be put in escrow up front. So a $250-$300M contract is a chunk of change to lay out at once. And if many contracts starts heading in that direction, it’s going to be a serious drain on available liquid capital.

I believe you are correct and I believe, a few years ago or so, that was why the Raiders couldn’t make moves because they didn’t have the liquid money to do so.

[Mojouw]

Interestingly enough...the "Funding Rule" is not in the CBA. It is not a mandate from the commissioner. It is a really old rule that the owners have 100% authority to vote to discard at any time.

No way they will. But they could at any point.

[Crow-Magnon]

And one last thing…how things have changed. If Lewis, Reed, Suggs, Ward, Polamalu, Roethlisberger et al were playing Sunday, there would NOT be two pages about someone’s looming contract lol.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I may be wrong, but I think the issue owners have with “fully guaranteed” contracts is that the $$$ needs to be put in escrow up front. So a $250-$300M contract is a chunk of change to lay out at once. And if many contracts starts heading in that direction, it’s going to be a serious drain on available liquid capital.

The reality is that the NFLPA was terrible with their CBA 20-30 years ago and negotiations only get incremental improvements. MLB, NBA have guaranteed contracts. NHL similar but with buyouts. Players dont get paid for how they perform if they are on a rookie contract and if they are injured then nothing is guaranteed.

Justin Jefferson is playing WR on a 4 year $13 million dollar rookie contract, while Kenny Golliday is on a 4 year $70million contract.

[Crow-Magnon]

The reality is that the NFLPA was terrible with their CBA 20-30 years ago and negotiations only get incremental improvements. MLB, NBA have guaranteed contracts. NHL similar but with buyouts. Players dont get paid for how they perform if they are on a rookie contract and if they are injured then nothing is guaranteed.

Justin Jefferson is playing WR on a 4 year $13 million dollar rookie contract, while Kenny Golliday is on a 4 year $70million contract.

True. But then again, how many MLB and NBA players are on a team compared to an NFL team? 26 in MLB and 15 in the NBA. That’s a lot more players that could potentially be on a guaranteed contract.

[Istina]

QBs I'd rather have long-term than Lamar:

Allen
Burrow
Watson (on-field only)
Pickett (projection)
Mahomes
Herbert
Hurts
Prescott
Lawrence

QBs that are playing better than Lamar (not listed above):

Cousins
Geno

QBs close to Lamar's level of play (not mentioned above):

Kyler
Fields
Carr

I didn't even mention Brady, Stafford or Rodgers. My point: Lamar is not worth a $250M fully guaranteed contract.

Hopefully to the Ravens he is worth that and fully guaranteed. :)

[Born2Steel]

Less than a 10% chance of precipitation for this game. Overcast and cold. Sounds like another lace 'em up tight and get physical type games. Dobbins is supposed to be back so at least the Ravens will have a run game to use. Between Dobbins, Duvernay, Hill, and Huntley, I don't know why they would pass the ball more than 20 times. It's not like the Steelers will put up some insurmountable lead. Could come down to Wright vs Tucker. Watch the penalties and turnovers, need a clean game!

[polamalubeast]

1601682587462037506

[Born2Steel]

Boz is back!!!! Right on time!!!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

True. But then again, how many MLB and NBA players are on a team compared to an NFL team? 26 in MLB and 15 in the NBA. That’s a lot more players that could potentially be on a guaranteed contract.

The reality is that other leagues like MLB and NBA have historically had stronger unions than the NFLPA and bargained for more, including guaranteed contracts.

So when a guy is a pro bowler on a rookie deal and asks to renegotiate his rookie deal, the fans say "he should honor the contract he signed!"

But when a guys signs a 4 year $70million contract and has a mediocre year the fans say "release him so you dont have to pay the contract that the team signed". This is why the signing bonus and "guaranteed money" are so important in the NFL.

I personally feel good for the player that gets paid a big contract with a large guaranteed portion, because then he has some security if injury happens. If a guy gets injured on his rookie deal, like Shazier did and the team didnt pick up his 5th year option, then all he would earn is his rookie deal, which to Shazier was $9million. But he played better those 4 seasons than a lot of guys making probably $5million a year on their 2nd contract.

- - - Updated - - -


Boz is back!!!! Right on time!!!

Wright did OK for the most part, but In Boz We Trust!

[Born2Steel]

True. Boz is needed for these winter games coming up.

[86WARD]

True. Boz is needed for these winter games coming up.

He’s a big defender of the blades of grass he is…

[Born2Steel]

He’s a big defender of the blades of grass he is…

He does seem to understand how to kick in that stadium when the wind is picking up. Nothing against Wright at all. He did a fine job.

[86WARD]

He does seem to understand how to kick in that stadium when the wind is picking up. Nothing against Wright at all. He did a fine job.

That’s why he’s the Wizard…

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

He’s a big defender of the blades of grass he is…

Boz is the standard.

[Edman]

Kenny is going to have to be a big boy today. Its his first Ravens game. The Ravens will stop the running game, force him to beat them and pressure him from all angles and try to force turnovers. Its cold and classic AFC North football in December. He will be tested.

Ben was able to rise to the occasion against the Ravens because he was tough and strong and could play a physical game.

[Lady Steel]

I'm hoping they get down and dirty in this game. I just don't want any of our players to get hurt. Kenny must be protected at all costs. I think the Steelers will take this one.



Those jagoffs better start listening to me!

[polamalubeast]

No one who watch the BAL-CLE game right now can said that Huntley is a better QB that Lamar....Not only Huntley is not the athlete that Lamar is,he is not close to be the same passer too

[hawaiiansteeler]

No one who watch the BAL-CLE game right now can said that Huntley is a better QB that Lamar....Not only Huntley is not the athlete that Lamar is,he is not close to be the same passer too

agreed, it cracks me up whenever someone says that the Ravens should just let Lamar walk and roll with Huntley.