Steelers Offense Discussion

[Born2Steel]

Let's try to look at what has actually happened so far this season. EVERY Steelers fan is not happy right now but try to keep this discussion PG and rational, please.

Just a couple questions first.....

1. How did Mitch win the starting QB job exactly?
In the preseason game vs the Seahawks, he went 4of7 for 63 yards and a TD.
In the 2nd preseason game vs the Jags he went 5of8 for 60 yards.
Then in the last preseason game vs the Lions he went 15of19 for 160 yards and 1TD.

2. What happened to the commitment to the run game?
Against the Bengals the Steelers ran 19 running plays vs 38 passing plays. That was with a 17-3 halftime lead.
Today was a bit more even but still only 20 run plays vs 33 pass plays. Still Jaylen Warren only got 4 touches.


Here are the game highlights from both games. The first one is vs the Bengals, and the second one is vs the Patriots. I know there is plenty to talk about on the defensive side but this thread is about the offense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkgLk02XC4M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9a6Sark83s

[Rotorhead]

If we can’t throw the ball effectively, teams are going to stack the LOS to stop run. Simply, teams are goi g to focus on the run and dare is to beat them with The passing game until we beat someone with the passing game. Same thing as last year. Our OC doesn’t seem to understand what crossing routes are, so we have nobody open in the middle of the field. When we do, MT either misses the throw or throws an INT.

The fix? Fire Canada. I would hesitate firing him and also starting KP, but I am not opposed to it at this point. We are heading for a higher pick next draft, so I would rather know if he is the next franchise QB or not.

[Born2Steel]

If we can’t throw the ball effectively, teams are going to stack the LOS to stop run. Simply, teams are goi g to focus on the run and dare is to beat them with The passing game until we beat someone with the passing game. Same thing as last year. Our OC doesn’t seem to understand what crossing routes are, so we have nobody open in the middle of the field. When we do, MT either misses the throw or throws an INT.

The fix? Fire Canada. I would hesitate firing him and also starting KP, but I am not opposed to it at this point. We are heading for a higher pick next draft, so I would rather know if he is the next franchise QB or not.

Fair. But when we ran the ball today Najee ran for 3.3 yards per run, and Warren ran for 3.8 yards per run. We used the FB today on short yardage and were successful in getting the 1st down. That accounts for 20 of our 66 plays today. I don't feel we ran the ball enough today.

[DuckHodges]

We couldn’t do diddly poo offensively, we couldn’t make a first down, we couldn’t run the ball, we didn’t try to run the ball, we couldn’t complete a pass, we sucked, it stunk

[Born2Steel]

We couldn’t do diddly poo offensively, we couldn’t make a fist down, we couldn’t run the ball, we didn’t try to run the ball, we couldn’t complete a pass, we sucked, it stunk

But we did run the ball successfully today. Not every single run obviously, but we had 91 yards rushing on what little we did run.

[DuckHodges]

If the offense doesn't improve, losses will stack up. With TJ out, they can't lean on the defense like before.

[Rotorhead]

Fair. But when we ran the ball today Najee ran for 3.3 yards per run, and Warren ran for 3.8 yards per run. We used the FB today on short yardage and were successful in getting the 1st down. That accounts for 20 of our 66 plays today. I don't feel we ran the ball enough today.

It is much easier to run when am we have the threat of a completed pass. Yes we ran better today, Najee had some tuff runs, which was encouraging, but it won’t matter until we can get some production passing.

[Mojouw]

I got nothing but random thoughts that I’m not sure mean anything or not.

What is the “structure” of the offense? There’s no foundation. Just run a jet motion because. Run a jet sweep but never use that as misdirection for something else. Passing routes don’t seemed to be linked together. I see other teams run one receiver through a zone and make the safety run with him and then send another receiver into the vacated space. This is what happened on both of Jefferson’s massive plays last week for the Vikings.

I realize no one is a great blocker across the roster, but why run behind PF and Gunner instead of getting a guard on the move?

Maybe this is just a college offense that is a bunch of random plays rather than a unified “system”.

[DuckHodges]

All i know is if we're just gonna throw 5-7 yard passes all game we shoulda stuck with the Duck man :chuckle:

[hawaiiansteeler]

our offense is offensive.

[polamalubeast]

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[dislocatedday]

I went and read a few news articles last night about Matt Canada and his previous stints as a college OC. It seems there are many people, at least in the college ranks, that praise his system and consider him an innovator who has developed offenses that are hard to defend. They discuss some of the same things that have been discussed here on the boards, such as all the pre-snap motion to identify what the defense is doing as one example of his innovations. The one negative I read about Canada at the college ranks is that some people evidently find him a difficult person with whom to work.

So, are the things he did at the college level only going work at that level and not the NFL? When I watch the Steelers play with Canada as OC, to my admittedly untrained eye it does not look like a complicated offense to defend at all, and worse yet it looks like they have a base set of about 10 plays that just get regurgitated over and over. The ball is almost always thrown short of the sticks on third down which is a recurring problem, and in fact the receivers run routes short of the sticks so I assume this is by design.

I'm just trying to figure out how much of the problem is the Canada offense and how much of it is Trubisky. It's been pointed out that when Ben went no-huddle last year and appeared to call his own plays that the Steelers moved the ball.......and when they are calling in the Canada plays from the sidelines that the offense struggles mightily.

I just hope Tomlin is recognizing the problems behind the scenes, and is not going to let the status quo continue through the season. I expect Trubisky to start this week since the game is on Thursday, but if another turd is laid by the offense on the field then by all means make Pickett the starter and/or move on from Canada. I don't think I or any other fan can stomach watching the same ineffective offensive play week after week.

[86WARD]

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No…that’s a good thing…

That means they recognize (and what we recognize) that Canada is a buffoon.

[polamalubeast]

No…that’s a good thing…

That means they recognize (and what we recognize) that Canada is a buffoon.

Yeah and it can not continue for another 16 weeks!

[Born2Steel]

I just don't know if I can get 100% behind the idea of firing the OC once the season has started, and in the same week start the new rookie. I'm willing to ride this to the bye and then make a move.

If the players are starting to grumble and complain in the huddle, this season is already lost. THAT is never allowed. Players need to just do their job on the field. Make your grumblings and complaints in the team meetings.

[polamalubeast]

I just don't know if I can get 100% behind the idea of firing the OC once the season has started, and in the same week start the new rookie. I'm willing to ride this to the bye and then make a move.

If the players are starting to grumble and complain in the huddle, this season is already lost. THAT is never allowed. Players need to just do their job on the field. Make your grumblings and complaints in the team meetings.

They can make a change after the game against the Browns, since they will have 10 days before the next game... Players have lost confidence in Matt Canada and probably also in Mitch Trubisky!

If the Steelers continue to have zero production for this offense, the Steelers are going to be with a record around 2-6 at the bye(just to look at the next 4 games after the Jets game!) and then it's going to be too late.

[Mojouw]

OK. I will bite.

Say you fire Canada at some point or another where the schedule buys you a couple extra games to get ready.

Who in the world can you bring in besides elevating Sullivan to be both QB coach and OC?

Football season started. These guys all have jobs at some level or another.

ANd, honestly, I am not sure Sullivan would be any better or worse. He did call plays for McAdoo and that wasn't great...

[polamalubeast]

OK. I will bite.

Say you fire Canada at some point or another where the schedule buys you a couple extra games to get ready.

Who in the world can you bring in besides elevating Sullivan to be both QB coach and OC?

Football season started. These guys all have jobs at some level or another.

ANd, honestly, I am not sure Sullivan would be any better or worse. He did call plays for McAdoo and that wasn't great...

I'm not sure, me too, but at this point we have nothing to lose since under Canada, our offense has scored 10 or less offensive points after 3 quarters in 14 of the 20 games

Sullivan was the OC of the giants under McAdoo but I don't think he wasn't the play caller expect the last 4 games of the 2017 season when McAdoo was fired

[Born2Steel]

OK. I will bite.

Say you fire Canada at some point or another where the schedule buys you a couple extra games to get ready.

Who in the world can you bring in besides elevating Sullivan to be both QB coach and OC?

Football season started. These guys all have jobs at some level or another.

ANd, honestly, I am not sure Sullivan would be any better or worse. He did call plays for McAdoo and that wasn't great...

Pretty much this.

Fire this guy, fire that guy......you need to have a plan. Addition by subtraction does not work here. There is a chain of command/communication. When you remove a piece of that someone has to fill that void. You guys want Tomlin calling the plays like some of the newer HCs do?

[polamalubeast]

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[Mojouw]

Anyone think that dividing up the reps among three guys this summer had a negative impact?

I feel like, and did no research on this, that usually even when a vet comes in but is a new starter....you hear about how teams just force fed that guy every rep they could in camp and preseason so that things could come together and yadda yadda coaching cliche quotes. I think you all know what I mean.

Is some of that real? And did trying to get all 3 QBs practice reps with the first string maybe contribute to some of the herky jerky nature of things? Perhaps Canada is still trying to figure out what each guy does well? QB is still not sure of timing on certain things? Etc....

[EzraTank]

No…that’s a good thing…

That means they recognize (and what we recognize) that Canada is a buffoon.

Yep, and the only drive they scored on was no huddle playing street ball with MT calling the plays. So imagine what a real OC and QB could do with these players?

[EzraTank]

Also this is such a good point someone on Twitter brought up:

"Notice how there no such thing as the Tomlin coaching tree?"

[DesertSteel]

OK. I will bite.

Say you fire Canada at some point or another where the schedule buys you a couple extra games to get ready.

Who in the world can you bring in besides elevating Sullivan to be both QB coach and OC?

Football season started. These guys all have jobs at some level or another.

ANd, honestly, I am not sure Sullivan would be any better or worse. He did call plays for McAdoo and that wasn't great...
There are at least 10 posters on this forum that could be a better OC than Canada. You really think the Steelers couldn't find someone better? Bring back Todd Haley or hire Ben. Draw a name from a hat!

[86WARD]

Here’s how I rank the problems:

1. Matt Canada
2. Offensive Line
3. Mitch Trubisky

That right there is 7 out of 12 parts that need to be replaced or some sort of fixing. Are all five parts of the offensive line “broken” and beyond fixing? Probably not…but for this excersise, as a whole…they all need to be replaced.


1. Matt Canada’s offense. We keep hearing that it’s innovative, lots of motion, blah, blah, blah. The only difference I notice from the time Canada has been here until now is the Jet Sweep in 2021. There have been some slight differences in 2022. Shovel pass to a TE, QB under center, a couple times moving the pocket. Still not throwing to the center of the field. QBs still making one read. What really disturbs me is that I saw receivers running to open areas (wide open areas) yesterday and they didn’t look for the ball. Like I said, maybe they were longer developing routes but if a guy is ten yards downfield, wide open, why aren’t we cutting those routes short for the yardage? Especially if we aren’t throwing deep because we are scared of the Patriots defense?!? Canada’s offense is not translating. It’s very basic, very middle school and to the dumb persons eye (mine), it appears that it is inept and crippling this team.

2. Offensive Line - been beaten to death for two years now…just not good.

3. Trubisky - he is wildly inaccurate at times, a little bit inaccurate at times that should be fixed with time. The wildly inaccurate throws will never be fixed. His throw to Freiermuth for the TD that people said was great wasn’t a good pass. It was behind Muth and if that defender is an inch closer, that’s knocked down or possibly intercepted. Yesterday he made one read and threw the ball. Week One I couldn’t tell if there were receivers open. Yesterday it was crystal clear that there were many receivers open that Trubisky did NOT throw to and took the quick short completion…just like Ben did. Hes all around average at best…with Canada, he’s well below.

At this point, I don’t even think of putting Kenny Pickett into the game. I keep Pickett as back up, I let him ride the pine this season, I start the process of finding an OC that will benefit Pickett’s skills. Season ends, I take the draft pick, draft the best O-Lineman available, I sign a few free agent linemen. I make a call to Munchak now to see what he needs to come back to Pittsburgh this week.

[EzraTank]

I'd love to give Pickett a Todd Haley type OC. Ben was too old and set in his ways when Haley was here. Pickett would be completely different with Haley. Anything but watching Canada's shitty system. Our OL clearly stinks plowing straight ahead running the ball so try pulling a guard or something. And if these guards are too fat/slow to pull then find some that can.

[86WARD]

Anyone think that dividing up the reps among three guys this summer had a negative impact?

I feel like, and did no research on this, that usually even when a vet comes in but is a new starter....you hear about how teams just force fed that guy every rep they could in camp and preseason so that things could come together and yadda yadda coaching cliche quotes. I think you all know what I mean.

Is some of that real? And did trying to get all 3 QBs practice reps with the first string maybe contribute to some of the herky jerky nature of things? Perhaps Canada is still trying to figure out what each guy does well? QB is still not sure of timing on certain things? Etc....

No. That’s normal.

[86WARD]

If the offense doesn't improve, losses will stack up. With TJ out, they can't lean on the defense like before.

Good. O-Line needs som young help.

[Mojouw]

Yep, and the only drive they scored on was no huddle playing street ball with MT calling the plays. So imagine what a real OC and QB could do with these players?

No way MT calls his own plays. Even Ben R had some of that taken away in 2021. That's all Canada in the radio headset.

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There are at least 10 posters on this forum that could be a better OC than Canada. You really think the Steelers couldn't find someone better? Bring back Todd Haley or hire Ben. Draw a name from a hat!

It isn't that they can not find someone better but I can not come up with off the top of my head of an NFL team firing an OC mid-season and bringing in an outside hire to replace that person. As much as we all might like it to happen, hoping for an (almost?) (totally?) unprecedented move to take place is not really worth the time.

[pczach]

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I don't want to hear about receivers and tight ends needing to catch the ball. These guys have been making incredible catches all over the place. Muth had a ball hit him in the face because the defender's hand was in fromt of his face, and the ball went between the hands of the defender. He's already trying to break up the interception at that point. Almost impossible to catch that ball when all you are thinking about is stopping a turnover. The other pass he may be talking about is when Muth going to the right sideline, was open, and Trubisky threw it wide and he barely got a couple fingers on it. If we are at the point when every pass that is within three yards of a receiver is supposed to be caught.....they need a new quarterback.

[polamalubeast]

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[Mojouw]

For me, the most damning play on Sunday was the one late in the game where MT rolls to his left and then does literally nothing as you can see his brain struggle to compute a decision. He could have thrown the ball to a receiver of some sort. He could have run for positive yards, he could have thrown the ball away, or he could have skirted out of bounds. All seemingly viable choices. He only had ONE negative path at that point in the game with the score and clock situation. And that is the option he chose. He got tackled for negative yards in bounds.

That's not something that we can lay at the playcalling's feet or the offensive line, or the receivers. That, to my mind, is 100% on the QB not making an appropriate decision. For a QB in his 6th NFL season and 5th as a starter -- that is just inexcusable.

[DesertSteel]

The numbers don’t lie.

https://i.postimg.cc/htd6B7ty/8-EEA209-E-239-B-4467-8-DA6-A40-AC9-B4-FCE8.jpg

[polamalubeast]

The numbers don’t lie.

https://i.postimg.cc/htd6B7ty/8-EEA209-E-239-B-4467-8-DA6-A40-AC9-B4-FCE8.jpg

Only one QB was worst that Ben last year(Ben was at 6.1 I think).Right now MT has 1 yard worst per pass attempts!

[DuckHodges]

For me, the most damning play on Sunday was the one late in the game where MT rolls to his left and then does literally nothing as you can see his brain struggle to compute a decision. He could have thrown the ball to a receiver of some sort. He could have run for positive yards, he could have thrown the ball away, or he could have skirted out of bounds. All seemingly viable choices. He only had ONE negative path at that point in the game with the score and clock situation. And that is the option he chose. He got tackled for negative yards in bounds.

That's not something that we can lay at the playcalling's feet or the offensive line, or the receivers. That, to my mind, is 100% on the QB not making an appropriate decision. For a QB in his 6th NFL season and 5th as a starter -- that is just inexcusable.

What I'm seeing is a guy who's not playing with confidence. He's indecisive and doesn't go through progressions. And whenever he throws the ball it looks like he's falling backwards even with a clean pocket.

[polamalubeast]

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[86WARD]

"Yeah. There's definitely freedom", within the offense, but you can only run what's available.

"But based on what the defense does, where I want to go with the football, it's not based on what the call is or what the concept or what our guys is running", he said. "I'm not just going wherever I want with the ball. Based on what they give us, there's a best option within each play to tell you were to go with your eyes and where to go with the ball".

What if…

Trubisky is throwing to the “best option” according to play design?

[86WARD]

At the same time, the tape does reveal that there is not exactly a robust assortment of route combinations that feature targeted crossing routes and other concepts that play to the space between the hash marks. The offense continues to be dominated by play outside the numbers, a statement that gets truer the far away from the line of scrimmage you get.

"I felt like I was doing my job out there, getting the playmakers the ball when they need to get to", Trubisky said of his own performance within the offense that was called. "Sometimes it's where I want the ball to go based on matchup, whether it's man or zone, and then based on the call, just doing your job and getting the guy the ball at the right time".



https://steelersdepot.com/2022/09/mitch-trubisky-theres-definitely-freedom-in-play-calling-but-defense-dictates-where-the-ball-goes/

[Mojouw]

Great quotes and they certainly seem damning.

BUT...but...their accuracy and identification of the problem appear to rely solely on MT being perceptive and accurate in reading out a defense and assessing the "best" option within a structure of the play.

From what I have seen...I am far from confident that MT's QB brain operates at a high level....but I really have no idea.

[86WARD]

Yeah I don’t know. I think all goes back to the fact that not the current QB and the current OC both have to go…

[Born2Steel]

The numbers don’t lie.

https://i.postimg.cc/htd6B7ty/8-EEA209-E-239-B-4467-8-DA6-A40-AC9-B4-FCE8.jpg

The stat that stands out to me is our longest pass play from scrimmage is 32 yards.

[EzraTank]

The only reason he's not dead last is because Dak got hurt.

[dislocatedday]

I know in the ESPN passing stats above the YPA field was circled, but if you look at almost any any field there MT is in the bottom 5 of everything.

I personally would rather go ahead and move to Pickett after this upcoming game, even if there are other problems with the offense. However, even if Trubisky is still in there and Canada remains OC and calls the plays, they both have to make changes going forward. If the plays and system are not working, or not being executed well by Trubisky, then the team can't keep trotting out the same plays with Trubisky checking down almost every pass play. The offense will get the same poor results game after game. I just fear no changes will be made and the team proceeds down this same path week after week hoping that by some miracle things just start to click and improve.

[Rotorhead]

So there are zero OC’s out there? At this point, give the QB coach the opportunity, how much worse can he be? I would almost ask Ben to come in and call plays, at least he know how to read defenses and can understand tendencies. He knows how to move the ball and understands crossing concepts.

On the flip side, would KP throw to those open WRs?

I fear starting KP with this jackass OC would be detrimental to his career, but maybe he has the ability to overcome the coaching deficit and pull out some game wins.

After seeing some of these tweets, I give Canada 2 more weeks until Tomlin pulls the trigger, hopefully the FO is already scouting for a different temp OC. Unfortunately after Tomlin’s comments, I fear we will be picking in the top five next draft.

[Edman]

For me, the most damning play on Sunday was the one late in the game where MT rolls to his left and then does literally nothing as you can see his brain struggle to compute a decision. He could have thrown the ball to a receiver of some sort. He could have run for positive yards, he could have thrown the ball away, or he could have skirted out of bounds. All seemingly viable choices. He only had ONE negative path at that point in the game with the score and clock situation. And that is the option he chose. He got tackled for negative yards in bounds.

That's not something that we can lay at the playcalling's feet or the offensive line, or the receivers. That, to my mind, is 100% on the QB not making an appropriate decision. For a QB in his 6th NFL season and 5th as a starter -- that is just inexcusable.

There was already a similar play against Cinci where that happened. There was a designed rollout where Mitch was rolling out to his left and Freiermuth was running free and open to the sideline and Mitch just doesn't throw it. He just doesn't throw it.

The most damning play to me was the first shot they went over the middle after slamming Canada all week for not going there. The very first time they call a route to that area, Trubisky doesn't see the underneath linebacker bracketing Johnson who tips the ball and gets an interception. It spoke volumes why we don't call routes or throw there. Trubisky cannot or just can't see the field. The coaching staff went into this game trying to minimize as many mistakes as possible, trying to hide him and make things as comfortable for him. This play basically told them "Look, we need to start limiting where this guy is throwing before he throws another pick." They limited Trubisky's reads for the rest of the game. One read, then go.

[Mojouw]

So there are zero OC’s out there? At this point, give the QB coach the opportunity, how much worse can he be? I would almost ask Ben to come in and call plays, at least he know how to read defenses and can understand tendencies. He knows how to move the ball and understands crossing concepts.

On the flip side, would KP throw to those open WRs?

I fear starting KP with this jackass OC would be detrimental to his career, but maybe he has the ability to overcome the coaching deficit and pull out some game wins.

After seeing some of these tweets, I give Canada 2 more weeks until Tomlin pulls the trigger, hopefully the FO is already scouting for a different temp OC. Unfortunately after Tomlin’s comments, I fear we will be picking in the top five next draft.

It isn't that there aren't any out of work offensive coordinators -- surely there are. But they are likely still out of work for a reason. But leave that one alone for now.

Are there any sitting on couch somewhere that can come in and get familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the entire offensive roster, install and teach a new playbook, revise and revamp formations, protection schemes, audible calls, and whatever else goes into running an offense each Sunday in less than a week?

According to what I have read and been told, all that is complicated and not easy to do....so I suspect it would look pretty dang bad if someone who was one of the annual coaching cycle losers at both the pro and college level was to come in and try it out.

At the same time....it doesn't look great right now. But I remain strongly pessimistic that there is some knight in shining armor offensive coordinator candidate just waiting for their phone to ring that can ride in and make this better. I think we just have to embrace the suck for the duration and hope the off-season brings positive changes.

[Born2Steel]

Justin Fuente is currently not working as a coach. OC prospect?

[tube517]

Justin Fuente is currently not working as a coach. OC prospect?

Please no. He was a classic underachiever at Va Tech.

[polamalubeast]

The steelers have no offensive identity....

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[polamalubeast]

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[ETL]

Hire Ben as OC. Heck he was doing the job half the time last year anyways.

[86WARD]

https://youtu.be/-iCXo56O3Hk

[EzraTank]

https://youtu.be/-iCXo56O3Hk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iCXo56O3Hk

Holy crap at the :10 second mark Pickens is WIDE open on the post route with NO ONE (I counted the Pats) behind him, easy 6 points if he leads Pickens to the ball.

At the :57 mark if Trustinky rolls to the right and leads DJ he's got one man to beat to the endzone, at worst he's down within the ten yard line.

[polamalubeast]

If the steelers wait a little too long before making a major change (OC, QB or both) it could become a very toxic atmosphere in this lockerroom for this offense... When we have a rookie who is already very frustrated after only 2 games, we have a major problem!

[Mojouw]

https://youtu.be/-iCXo56O3Hk

Welp. That kinda sorta seems to tilt the scales to MT being more to "blame" here. Not that it is evidence that Canada is some great offensive play-caller, but there was some stuff that worked together in that clip. Using one route to move defenders around to get another guy open.

But I am sure that this guy is just some YouTuber content creator and not a tape eating football knower. So probably means that MT is going to get a Pro Bowl nod this year.

[polamalubeast]

A classic wasted down on this play!


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[Rotorhead]

A classic wasted down on this play!


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Not sure what this was supposed to show is except the OL got beat and MT just threw it away right be fire he was creamed

[dislocatedday]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iCXo56O3Hk

Holy crap at the :10 second mark Pickens is WIDE open on the post route with NO ONE (I counted the Pats) behind him, easy 6 points if he leads Pickens to the ball.

At the :57 mark if Trustinky rolls to the right and leads DJ he's got one man to beat to the endzone, at worst he's down within the ten yard line.

Thanks for posting that, even if it is depressing to watch. Trubisky is either not looking down the field, or is too afraid to make those throws deep, and just settles for check downs over and over.

[86WARD]

Welp. That kinda sorta seems to tilt the scales to MT being more to "blame" here. Not that it is evidence that Canada is some great offensive play-caller, but there was some stuff that worked together in that clip. Using one route to move defenders around to get another guy open.

But I am sure that this guy is just some YouTuber content creator and not a tape eating football knower. So probably means that MT is going to get a Pro Bowl nod this year.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o7aD3VgMBSv1ZLIXe/giphy.gif

[86WARD]

A classic wasted down on this play!


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Daniels takes off like he is run blocking…lol

[polamalubeast]

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[polamalubeast]

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[Mojouw]

I can’t find it. Maybe Twitter? But somewhere Trai Essex has a breakdown of Harris missing holes.

Seems reasonable. Young RB who missed a bunch of camp.

Also noticed in a few clips that WRs ran into each other or to the same spot.

The most glaring problem is MT. Then Canada. But it runs to every position group.

Sounds doom and gloom but it also means there’s lots of things to improve that could produce highly positive outcomes.

[Born2Steel]

I can’t find it. Maybe Twitter? But somewhere Trai Essex has a breakdown of Harris missing holes.

Seems reasonable. Young RB who missed a bunch of camp.

Also noticed in a few clips that WRs ran into each other or to the same spot.

The most glaring problem is MT. Then Canada. But it runs to every position group.

Sounds doom and gloom but it also means there’s lots of things to improve that could produce highly positive outcomes.

I did notice WRs running into each other on crossing routes. That is a coaching issue.

[Bluecoat96]

I will readily admit that I like Trubisky the person. My wife and her family are from Mentor and are heavily involved with Mentor football, and have had multiple interactions with him, all of which have been awesome. Great human. I even got to watch Mitch and Co. tear it up on the basketball court in HS. Crazy athletic.

I don't want to see him lose his starting job obviously, but of this Thursday is more of the same, it might be time to usher in the Pickett Era. Or heck....have Rudolph start with Pickett backing him up.

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk

[polamalubeast]

1572238267021656064

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I will readily admit that I like Trubisky the person. My wife and her family are from Mentor and are heavily involved with Mentor football, and have had multiple interactions with him, all of which have been awesome. Great human. I even got to watch Mitch and Co. tear it up on the basketball court in HS. Crazy athletic.

I don't want to see him lose his starting job obviously, but of this Thursday is more of the same, it might be time to usher in the Pickett Era. Or heck....have Rudolph start with Pickett backing him up.

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk

For me,I hate MT the QB but not the person....I think this is the same for many

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Maybe this is not true...maybe this is but this is possible...

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[polamalubeast]

1572246246857019396

[DesertSteel]

The truth is that Najee Harris has sucked every bit as much as Mitch Trubisky. With NH, you can blame the o-line. With MT you can blame the OC. Fine. But from my perspective, neither are playing well regardless of these factors.

[DuckHodges]

I like how Warren runs, reminds me of Conner. Runs hard and tough to bring down. He should get more playing time

[polamalubeast]

If we trust PFF,the offensive line are not a major problem right now

1572252559271919620

[polamalubeast]

1572242103920623617

[DuckHodges]

If we trust PFF,the offensive line are not a major problem right now

1572252559271919620

But but but it's the o-line's fault that Trubisky sucks! It's true because some jagoff on ESPN said it! :chuckle:

JAX preseason game, the o-line looked more competent when Pickett got in, and most of the starters were still there for that defense. The difference is when you have a QB that can process information and make decisions even a half second faster that is HUGE in the NFL

[polamalubeast]

1572294525162242050

[Born2Steel]

1572294525162242050

Who's that at the 28? Why was that throw not completed?

[Mojouw]

The link PB shared is pretty interesting to watch.

basically conclusion is what worked at Maryland against 19 year olds doesn't fly in the NFL against elite professionals.

[86WARD]

But but but it's the o-line's fault that Trubisky sucks! It's true because some jagoff on ESPN said it! :chuckle:

JAX preseason game, the o-line looked more competent when Pickett got in, and most of the starters were still there for that defense. The difference is when you have a QB that can process information and make decisions even a half second faster that is HUGE in the NFL

Trubisky sucks. Canada makes him worse.

[tube517]

The link PB shared is pretty interesting to watch.

basically conclusion is what worked at Maryland against 19 year olds doesn't fly in the NFL against elite professionals.


Look at all the offensive talent he had at LSU that one year and LSUs offense was ranked very low. I was stunned at the names I saw on that team

[polamalubeast]

Can't wait!

1572315323096784896

[DuckHodges]

Can't wait!

1572315323096784896

Sign him please, bye Canada! :chuckle:

[vasteeler]

Sign him please, bye Canada! :chuckle:

Lol... Todd has never looked so good. I'd welcome him back in heart beat

[lipps83]

Lol... Todd has never looked so good. I'd welcome him back in heart beat

The only problem I had with Haley was nonsense play calls like 30 yard bombs on 3rd and inches (when you had Bell especially) and all of the damn wr screens that seemed to be every 3rd pass attempt. Sometimes his play calling didn't seem to make much sense, but when he was here he really did have the personnel to try anything he wanted, and so he did.

And THAT was frustrating because sometimes it would just kill drives.

But he could put together a game plan.

[polamalubeast]

The only problem I had with Haley was nonsense play calls like 30 yard bombs on 3rd and inches (when you had Bell especially) and all of the damn wr screens that seemed to be every 3rd pass attempt. Sometimes his play calling didn't seem to make much sense, but when he was here he really did have the personnel to try anything he wanted, and so he did.

And THAT was frustrating because sometimes it would just kill drives.

But he could put together a game plan.

You described Todd Haley perfectly for his strengths and weaknesses!

[RunNGun]

I agree with others that if they were to make a change it would be someone within. Hiring from the outside and learning a whole new offense on the go doesn't sound like a great combination for this team. A lot of young guys on offense.

As much as Canada frustrates me...you can easily see there were players wide open on multiple occasions and Mitch doesn't see it. Those 3 or 4 plays a game could make a world of difference.

I want to see Kenny Pickett get his shot before they get rid of Canada to see if a QB willing to unleash the ball will make a difference. I think KP gets the nod in week 4 against the Jets.

[polamalubeast]

I agree with others that if they were to make a change it would be someone within. Hiring from the outside and learning a whole new offense on the go doesn't sound like a great combination for this team. A lot of young guys on offense.

As much as Canada frustrates me...you can easily see that there were players on multiple occasions wide open and Mitch doesn't see it. Those 3 or 4 plays a game could make a world of difference. I want to see Kenny Pickett get his shot before they get rid of Canada to see if a QB willing to unleash the ball will make a difference. I think KP to get nod in week 4 against the Jets.

Or at halftime on thursday if the steelers are down 10-0 or something like that!

[RunNGun]

Or at halftime on thursday if the steelers are down 10-0 or something like that!

It may be necessary, but does Tomlin have the balls to make the switch during a game? I thought last week that the thought had to at least cross their mind.

[polamalubeast]

1572340157914959873

[Rotorhead]

I did notice WRs running into each other on crossing routes. That is a coaching issue.

Yes, one particular play the WR running from left to right ended up being open . . . Cause crossing routes and pick plays work (hear that Canada?)

[polamalubeast]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EELl584Z88

[86WARD]

The only problem I had with Haley was nonsense play calls like 30 yard bombs on 3rd and inches (when you had Bell especially) and all of the damn wr screens that seemed to be every 3rd pass attempt. Sometimes his play calling didn't seem to make much sense, but when he was here he really did have the personnel to try anything he wanted, and so he did.

And THAT was frustrating because sometimes it would just kill drives.

But he could put together a game plan.

Those weren’t necessarily Haley’s calls. When Ben has one on one matchups, if he thought the receiver could beat the CB, he would audible that. He’s always done that. There’s an interview or article from way back that confirmed most of those bombs were Ben. I didn’t like when Haley would run a trick play at the worst times...

[lipps83]

Those weren’t necessarily Haley’s calls. When Ben has one on one matchups, if he thought the receiver could beat the CB, he would audible that. He’s always done that. There’s an interview or article from way back that confirmed most of those bombs were Ben. I didn’t like when Haley would run a trick play at the worst times...

You know, I remember hearing something at some point as well too but must have forgotten that.

Then Haley was even less of a problem than I had thought.

Will be interesting to hear what he has to say.

[86WARD]

You know, I remember hearing something at some point as well too but must have forgotten that.

Then Haley was even less of a problem than I had thought.

Will be interesting to hear what he has to say.

He most certainly won’t hold back...lol. He’s good on the radio.

[Edman]

https://twitter.com/TriggeredWise/status/1572320547144634368

88 breaks wide open and Mitch locks onto him but doesn't throw it and scrambles.

The only way you can blame this shitshow on Canada is if he's somehow telling Mitch not to throw the ball or making him overly cautious. But there is no excuse for this.

[ETL]

Ultimately this is on Tomlin. He chose the staff for the offense. And he has the power to change it.

[Mojouw]

All I got is this.

Joe Walton (in)famously had a playbook the size of the NY city phone book. That dude’s offense stunk.

I suspect Shannahan the Younger has only a few plays. But he gets to them in not the exact same way.

Taylor and the Bengals have like 2 running plays and then empty set passes. That’s it. Although it seems the league figured that out. Finally.

So there’s some sort of middle ground where you can run a functional NFL offense with a few basic plays. But maybe you need to not provide keys that give the plan away?

I’m not football good. So this could all be nonsense.

[polamalubeast]

Ben Roethlisberger Says Steelers’ Mitch Trubisky Was “Playing Within The System”; Doesn’t “Blame” QB1 For Sunday’s Brutal Loss


“I just don’t think it’s fair… I wouldn’t blame Mitch for the performance today [Sunday]. I don’t think he was bad. Did he miss a couple throws? Yes. Every quarterback does. I just saw Aaron Rodgers miss a throw and he’s one of the greatest to ever play. It’s going to happen sometimes… He threw an interception one time, the guy tipped it, whatever. Did he play his best game? No. Did he play his worst game? I don’t think so.”

“I don’t think he deserved the fans getting on him today because sometimes you’re playing within the system. I’m not trying to say it’s Matt Canada either, but sometimes if he’s looking down the field and no one’s there, he’s taking the check down. If you call a wide receiver screen, you’re throwing the wide receiver screen. If it goes for minus two yards, that’s not on the quarterback. It’s not his fault the screen goes for minus two yards. So I thought it was a little early and a little unfair to start booing. I think the boo birds were more for the offense in general… I hate it for Mitchell because I don’t think it’s fair yet.”

more on this

https://www.steelernation.com/roethlisberger-on-steelers-trubisky/

[Born2Steel]

I'm moving into the only way to know what the problem truly is, is to make a switch at QB.

1. OL getting good scores so far.
2. Unquestionable talent at RB, WR, and TE

Only other position is at QB. If the Steelers make a QB change and the offense has the same issues, it is not a QB problem and is therefore a coaching problem. Start with the OC and in-game decisions. Not necessarily change the OC but maybe limit his gameday input.

IF the offense's issues improve, whether a little or a lot, then it is a QB issue. Make the QB change permanent.

No additional cost to the team, no in-season upheaval or starting over.

[86WARD]

Ben Roethlisberger Says Steelers’ Mitch Trubisky Was “Playing Within The System”; Doesn’t “Blame” QB1 For Sunday’s Brutal Loss



more on this

https://www.steelernation.com/roethlisberger-on-steelers-trubisky/

Always goes back to Canada AND Trubisky…it’s not one or the other. One is awful and one is bad playing within a bad system.

[Steeler-in-west]

I'm moving into the only way to know what the problem truly is, is to make a switch at QB.

1. OL getting good scores so far.
2. Unquestionable talent at RB, WR, and TE

Only other position is at QB. If the Steelers make a QB change and the offense has the same issues, it is not a QB problem and is therefore a coaching problem. Start with the OC and in-game decisions. Not necessarily change the OC but maybe limit his gameday input.

IF the offense's issues improve, whether a little or a lot, then it is a QB issue. Make the QB change permanent.

No additional cost to the team, no in-season upheaval or starting over.

This. Got to find out what you have in your first round QB and your OC. This is the only way to do it. We won’t learn anything with MT continuing to play mediocre to poor ball, while 24 year old KP sits on the bench getting frustrated along with the receivers.

Then which way do you go in next years draft?

[Born2Steel]

This. Got to find out what you have in your first round QB and your OC. This is the only way to do it. We won’t learn anything with MT continuing to play mediocre to poor ball, while 24 year old KP sits on the bench getting frustrated along with the receivers.

Then which way do you go in next years draft?

Even if KP was the opening day starter, this team could still very easily be at 1-1 headed into this Thursday's game vs Cleveland. IF players are indeed 'frustrated' with this offense after 2 weeks, they might find their diva asses on the sidelines. No hostages.

[Mojouw]

Even if KP was the opening day starter, this team could still very easily be at 1-1 headed into this Thursday's game vs Cleveland. IF players are indeed 'frustrated' with this offense after 2 weeks, they might find their diva asses on the sidelines. No hostages.

Maybe?

It’s also possible that since NFL players exist in the larger world they are aware of the following:

1. Trubisky’s career to date.
2. The quick success other rookie QBs have had.
3. The potential gap between play called and play outcomes.

It may not be just the won/loss outcome but the way they got there.

Who knows? Anything’s possible.

Most of this is likely a tempest in a teapot. It just seems big and strange because the Steelers, their fans, and their media pundits haven’t experienced in 20 years.

[Born2Steel]

Maybe?

It’s also possible that since NFL players exist in the larger world they are aware of the following:

1. Trubisky’s career to date.
2. The quick success other rookie QBs have had.
3. The potential gap between play called and play outcomes.

It may not be just the won/loss outcome but the way they got there.

Who knows? Anything’s possible.

Most of this is likely a tempest in a teapot. It just seems big and strange because the Steelers, their fans, and their media pundits haven’t experienced in 20 years.

I think the reports are less than substantial at any rate. But...NFL players also understand football teams are not a democracy.

[DuckHodges]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHnAiVSJgLM

[Dwinsgames]

88 breaks wide open and Mitch locks onto him but doesn't throw it and scrambles.

The only way you can blame this shitshow on Canada is if he's somehow telling Mitch not to throw the ball or making him overly cautious. But there is no excuse for this.

smh .... by the time mitch see's 88 if you are paying any attention at all .... the 0-Lineman is being driven back into his lap , he is not set to throw so by the time he would setup pull back the arm and let it fly that lineman would be in his lap and the throw would be off of course ...I mean it is easy to let an open receiver downfield jump off the page if you do not take anything else into consideration ....

this is why most here are just fans....

[polamalubeast]

1572916139067609093

[Dwinsgames]

I'm moving into the only way to know what the problem truly is, is to make a switch at QB.

1. OL getting good scores so far.
2. Unquestionable talent at RB, WR, and TE

Only other position is at QB. If the Steelers make a QB change and the offense has the same issues, it is not a QB problem and is therefore a coaching problem. Start with the OC and in-game decisions. Not necessarily change the OC but maybe limit his gameday input.

IF the offense's issues improve, whether a little or a lot, then it is a QB issue. Make the QB change permanent.

No additional cost to the team, no in-season upheaval or starting over.


2.88 Yards per carry that is either on the RB (who has unquestionable talent as you say or the O-Line who you say is getting good scores)

last year same unquestionable talent at RB averaged 3.8 ypc .... same system new line that was supposed to be better so we made changes and get the opposite result that was desired ...

wait still have Canada tho

[DesertSteel]

2.88 Yards per carry that is either on the RB (who has unquestionable talent as you say or the O-Line who you say is getting good scores)

last year same unquestionable talent at RB averaged 3.8 ypc .... same system new line that was supposed to be better so we made changes and get the opposite result that was desired ...

wait still have Canada tho

3.8 is not good either.

[Dwinsgames]

3.8 is not good either.

its not , but the point is he regressed on what was SUPPOSED to be good changes .........

so either Najee talent is questionable or the line sucks that is "getting good grades"

either way its worse than last year and last years wasnt good and we made changes on that line ....

we could see the same thing making changes with the QB going from what is perceived as bad to worse because someone see's it better on paper because he played well vs burger flippers and cart pushers in perseason games ....

[Born2Steel]

83 yards rushing per game with the limited run snaps of this offense, is not a bad number. I believe this will improve.

The less than 200 yards per game passing is the issue. This stat is why I would make a change at QB and see what the difference is. If there is no difference, then it is not a QB problem.

[polamalubeast]

3.8 is not good either.

Not as bad that the 5.1 yards per pass attempts...Running game is not good but the opposing defense don't need to respect the passing game too,since this is all-time bad so far under Canada

[Dwinsgames]

83 yards rushing per game with the limited run snaps of this offense, is not a bad number. I believe this will improve.

The less than 200 yards per game passing is the issue. This stat is why I would make a change at QB and see what the difference is. If there is no difference, then it is not a QB problem.

56 yards per game via the RB pos ( the rest came from a handful of runs via the WR's ) Najee is tied for 39th place as a rusher thus far in 2022 several teams have more than 1 guy with more rushing yards than Najee(72) on their team ... in Fact Najee is Tied with the Pats backup RB who has just 17 carries on the season ...

but a lack of a running game wouldn't impact your offense any would it ? (loaded with sarcasm)

we have issues in spades and the guy responsible for that unit is Canada ...we can't run , we can't pass and we ignore play calls to any place over 20 yards or in the middle of the field ... hmm seems like an easy offense to defend if you ask me

[Dwinsgames]

Not as bad that the 5.1 yards per pass attempts...Running game is not good but the opposing defense don't need to respect the passing game too,since this is all-time bad so far under Canada

but in 2022 its 2.88 per rushing attemp

[Mojouw]

People will hate this and I really don't care to debate the utility of the source: https://steelersdepot.com/2022/09/watch-matt-canada-vs-mitch-trubisky-defining-blame/

But this aligns with my thinking over the first few weeks. Canada is not a great OC. Trubisky, right now, is a bad QB. Canada puts MT in less than excellent situations that lead to failure. When there are plays to be made, MT dorks it up a significant amount of the time.

It is a simple and uncomplicated story.

[DesertSteel]

its not , but the point is he regressed on what was SUPPOSED to be good changes .........

so either Najee talent is questionable or the line sucks that is "getting good grades"

either way its worse than last year and last years wasnt good and we made changes on that line ....

we could see the same thing making changes with the QB going from what is perceived as bad to worse because someone see's it better on paper because he played well vs burger flippers and cart pushers in perseason games ....

I'll go 60/40 Najee to blame.

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Not as bad that the 5.1 yards per pass attempts...Running game is not good but the opposing defense don't need to respect the passing game too,since this is all-time bad so far under Canada
I guess with this offense, it's a debate of who sucks the most, huh?

[Born2Steel]

56 yards per game via the RB pos ( the rest came from a handful of runs via the WR's ) Najee is tied for 39th place as a rusher thus far in 2022 several teams have more than 1 guy with more rushing yards than Najee(72) on their team ... in Fact Najee is Tied with the Pats backup RB who has just 17 carries on the season ...

but a lack of a running game wouldn't impact your offense any would it ? (loaded with sarcasm)

we have issues in spades and the guy responsible for that unit is Canada ...we can't run , we can't pass and we ignore play calls to any place over 20 yards or in the middle of the field ... hmm seems like an easy offense to defend if you ask me

RB/WR, run game is what I was talking about. AND the expectation is it will improve. If you think it is bad and will stay bad then just say that. I see improvement.

[RunNGun]

smh .... by the time mitch see's 88 if you are paying any attention at all .... the 0-Lineman is being driven back into his lap , he is not set to throw so by the time he would setup pull back the arm and let it fly that lineman would be in his lap and the throw would be off of course ...I mean it is easy to let an open receiver downfield jump off the page if you do not take anything else into consideration ....

this is why most here are just fans....

I don't what play you guys are referring to, but that's what separates the good from great QBs. Mitch may or may not have had the time to make a good throw but regardless, Mitch doesn't anticipate WRs getting open. He throws to open WRs, but rarely throws them open.

I do think KP would be an upgrade in terms of anticipating when a receiver will be open and making quick decisions. Obviously, he's going to make mistakes, but that's how he will progress.

[Born2Steel]

Instead of starting a new thread.....

A new era of Steelers offense begins this week with Kenny Pickett getting his 1st ever start vs the Bills in week 5. It will be fun to watch what happens moving forward. Even if this should fail I am excited to see how the remainder of the season plays out.

We have an OL of Moore-Dotson-Cole-Daniels-Chuks

DJ, Claypool, Pickens, Freiermuth, Harris, and Warren are the main weapons.

Here We GO!!!

[Born2Steel]

As of this gameday morning I am feeling optimistic about the Steelers being able to get this season righted. Tough opponents and some key injuries will make wins tougher for sure, but I honestly think we will start seeing what we all know this team is capable of. The talent level is here. Still young and learning to play together but the talent level is definitely here. This is fun for me.

[86WARD]

As of this gameday morning I am feeling optimistic about the Steelers being able to get this season righted. Tough opponents and some key injuries will make wins tougher for sure, but I honestly think we will start seeing what we all know this team is capable of. The talent level is here. Still young and learning to play together but the talent level is definitely here. This is fun for me.

Adversity will make them stronger in the long run and for the future…

[tube517]

1579216171664302080

DAFuq is this?

[polamalubeast]

Can't believe Canada still has a job....

[86WARD]

Can't believe Canada still has a job....

It’s crazy…could there be something deeper (like way deeper) that we don’t know about…

[hawaiiansteeler]

It’s crazy…could there be something deeper (like way deeper) that we don’t know about…

Matt Canada has naked pics of Tomlin with a hooker perhaps?