Is the Santonio Holmes trade the worst trade in history by any team?

[NLross]

No matter how you spin it a 5th round pick for Holmes is a joke. I've never seen such a blatant steal for a great player. What do you think?

[EDIT] I'm not against trading Holmes and moving on if hes is going to keep being an off the field distraction, but do you think the Steelers could have squeezed more value out of the trade?

[SteelerFanInStl]

No matter how you spin in a 5th round pick for Holmes is a joke. I've never seen such a blatant steal for a great player. What do you think?

So you joined here just to post this question? Interesting...

[Borski]

No matter how you spin in a 5th round pick for Holmes is a joke. I've never seen such a blatant steal for a great player. What do you think?

Or the fact that he has 2 run ins with the law concerning illegal substances, and has show no remorse, or effort to change his ways, in fact he publicly said he this wouldn't change him. Leads me to believe he is the next Ricky Williams, it wouldn't surprise me if he gets caught again and suspended for a who year.

[NLross]

So you joined here just to post this question? Interesting...

Yes actually..... , was watching MNF and was just reminded about Holmes and wanted to see what other Steelers fans thought about it. Im usually proud of the decisions the ownership makes and I could still be proven wrong, but I just never understood this one. He meshed with Roethlisberger so well and was really becoming one of the standout recievers in the NFL. A 5th round pick just doesn't make any sense. I see the off the feild issues but it still does not justify only a 5th round pick. The Steelers have been known for being tough on troublesome players but where do you draw the line? For a second I was afraid they would trade away Ben for a 3rd round pick.

[Godfather]

Not even close.

He was already suspended for the first four games, and we weren't going to re-sign him at the end of the year anyway. We still have Ward and Wallace and receivers aren't that hard to find. Bongtonio just wasn't worth the trouble.

Better to get a draft pick than cut him or let him walk as a free agent.

[Psycho Ward 86]

No matter how you spin it a 5th round pick for Holmes is a joke. I've never seen such a blatant steal for a great player. What do you think?

he hasn't even played a down for the jets yet...

[NLross]

Not even close.

He was already suspended for the first four games, and we weren't going to re-sign him at the end of the year anyway.

I guess I could see this if we knew we wouldn't re-sign him, I hope we can pick up someone like Julio Jones from Bama or Baldwin from Pitt, because Im not sure Sanders or Brown will be able to provide the big play threat Homes did. Its probably to early to tell that though.

[Butch]

Worst trade in the history of the NFL you obviously don't know your history very well you must not be a Steeler fan.

The worst trade by far and away has to be the vikings trading 13 draft picks to the cowpaties for hershel walker. The cryboys went on to dominate the NFL after only winning one game the year previous to the trade.

As for Santonio I agree he's a gamer, and I certainly think we coulda got better but it is what it is. It will be interesting to see if he keeps his nose clean because he certainly isn't showing any indications of it. He may very well be the next rickey williams of the league. I also don't care for his remarks about how he won the Superbowl. Sounds like he's already a legend in his own mind. As Chuck Noll would tell his players no matter what you might think you can always do better, to me it sounds like Santonio has a belief that he has already arrived and that's to bad for him.

[Craic]

It is one of the best trades the Steelers have ever made. Including the Bettis trade.

5th round draft pick for a Hop-head heading into a 4 game suspension with no self examination and admitting of wrong, no desire to understand where he is causing problems-- and all this with him facing a 1 YEAR SUSPENSION for the next drug violation.

And they STILL Get a 5th round pick for him. Great job Steelers.

[Butch]

It is one of the best trades the Steelers have ever made. Including the Bettis trade.

5th round draft pick for a Hop-head heading into a 4 game suspension with no self examination and admitting of wrong, no desire to understand where he is causing problems-- and all this with him facing a 1 YEAR SUSPENSION for the next drug violation.

And they STILL Get a 5th round pick for him. Great job Steelers.

Well I think you are forgetting when we traded to move up to get Troy. If you ask me that was a much better trade.

[Craic]

Well I think you are forgetting when we traded to move up to get Troy. If you ask me that was a much better trade.

But we didn't trade players... I am talking about trading players.

[Steeldude]

No matter how you spin it a 5th round pick for Holmes is a joke. I've never seen such a blatant steal for a great player. What do you think?

[EDIT] I'm not against trading Holmes and moving on if hes is going to keep being an off the field distraction, but do you think the Steelers could have squeezed more value out of the trade?

the steelers made an example out of him. holmes wasn't that great. his hands were average and his attitude was worse.

i remember the same thing being said when porter.

as for this being the worst trade ever by any team in history? that is a definite no.

[Butch]

But we didn't trade players... I am talking about trading players.

Yeah but trading up to get Troy was better than trading Santonio. We did get B-mack back for that 5th rounder so I'm fine with the trade.

[GodfatherofSoul]

One thing I'll never question this organization about, and that's in the area of character issue cuts/trades. The front office is always spot-on.

[Chidi29]

No matter how you spin it a 5th round pick for Holmes is a joke. I've never seen such a blatant steal for a great player. What do you think?

[EDIT] I'm not against trading Holmes and moving on if hes is going to keep being an off the field distraction, but do you think the Steelers could have squeezed more value out of the trade?

It's a common thought that we could've gotten more, but in reality, a 5th was as good as we were going to get.

For starters, you already agree that we were going to move on from Holmes and were set on trading him.

Right off the bat, you're losing leverage. Teams know you want him to get out of town as quickly as possible. There is no "We'll trade him for the right price". This is damaged goods, a junker of a car so to speak. You don't have the leverage. You put up a "Best Offer" sign.

The other factors included:

1. The suspension.
2. Teams being reluctant to trade draft picks in general. Moss only went for a 3rd.
3. Another big, not talked about factor is the contract. This is Holmes final year. Lose a lot of value when the contract is about to expire.

I understand the hit we took with dealing Holmes, but I'm fine with the move.

[oneforthetoe]

It's a common thought that we could've gotten more, but in reality, a 5th was as good as we were going to get.

For starters, you already agree that we were going to move on from Holmes and were set on trading him.

Right off the bat, you're losing leverage. Teams know you want him to get out of town as quickly as possible. There is no "We'll trade him for the right price". This is damaged goods, a junker of a car so to speak. You don't have the leverage. You put up a "Best Offer" sign.

The other factors included:

1. The suspension.
2. Teams being reluctant to trade draft picks in general. Moss only went for a 3rd.
3. Another big, not talked about factor is the contract. This is Holmes final year. Lose a lot of value when the contract is about to expire.

I understand the hit we took with dealing Holmes, but I'm fine with the move.


Bingo, or Parcheesi if you prefer. Moss is a doofuss as well, but he is a Hall of Fame doofuss and the Pats settled for a 3rd rounder from a desperate Minnesota team. If the Steelers would have waited until the season to trade Holmes, as to the Pats did, I figure the Vikes might have given us a 4th rounder for Santonio. However, that isn't much of an option for the steelers because of Santonios suspension.

[tube517]

I liked Sandoobio but why do people think it's the worst trade in history. They were going to release him. Better than to get something than nothing. Basically, they got BMac and Antonio Brown in return so if you are going to judge the trade, at least wait until some games are played.

I would prefer to leave the decisions to the front office that is a consistent winner and has more Super Bowls than any other team. I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

[Akagi]

the steelers made an example out of him. holmes wasn't that great. his hands were average and his attitude was worse.

i remember the same thing being said when porter.

as for this being the worst trade ever by any team in history? that is a definite no.

I dunno, Steeldude, Holmes is a quality NFL receiver; he's in the top 1/3, easy. Maybe not elite, but close enough.

That being said, I have no problem with the trade at all, for the reasons given above; the suspension, the 3 strikes rule (meaning that a repeat offender, and Holmes being one with no apparent remorse, will be lost for a year on next violation), that he was leaving for free agency at the end of the season anyhow, that receivers aren't that hard to find... not that big a deal, IMO. Addition by subtraction.

[stillers4me]

Santonio Holmes is the greatest receiver ever. He won the Superbowl all by himself. Just ask him.

[fansince'76]

Is the Santonio Holmes trade the worst trade in history by any team?No, not by a long shot. See the Herschel Walker trade for the "worst in history" by any team, in this case the Vikings. It propelled the Cowboys from 1-15 in 1989 to being the team of the '90s and set the Vikes, who were close to being a serious Super Bowl contender at the time themselves, back years.

EDIT: I see Butch beat me to it.

[Wallace108]

Im not sure Sanders or Brown will be able to provide the big play threat Homes did.

Are you forgetting someone?

http://i3.campaignmonitor.com/uploads/images/icons/48x48/icon-48x48-arrow_down.png

[JayC]

i have no problems with the trade. he wasn't a hines ward or the type of guy i love and want to be a steeler forever. i hope in the future we get more guys with somewhat of a hines ward personality and not plex/holmes type.

[Merchant]

The Steelers are bigger than one player. The organization has a reputation to maintain - a reputation that was threatened by the incidents surrounding Ben and Santonio. Rooney had to set an example, that his kind of crap would not be tolerated. Nowhere near the worst trade in NFL history. As somebody already mentioned, the Vikings trading a bounty of draft picks to the Cowboys for Walker, including THREE first round picks, and THREE second round picks, is easilyyy the worst trade in NFL history.

[steelreserve]

Considering that we probably would've just cut him otherwise and gotten nothing in return, I guess it wasn't that bad in hindsight. But I still think that in terms of value for talent, it was pretty piss-poor. And I do think we could've gotten a higher pick for him if we'd not been in such an all-fired hurry to do damage control.

As far as the worst trade ever ... The Walker trade probably takes the cake, but I also think the Saints trading their whole draft for Ricky Williams is up there, and the Chargers trading two first-round picks, a second-round pick, and two pretty good players for Ryan Leaf also gives it a run for the money.

[fansince'76]

As far as the worst trade ever ... The Walker trade probably takes the cake, but I also think the Saints trading their whole draft for Ricky Williams is up there....

Good call - completely forgot about that one.

http://photos.upi.com/topics-Ricky-Williams-is-interviewed-alongside-coach-Mike-Ditka/abfed562ade34d2e22530b4a23f23239/R_2.jpg

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[shinoff2183]

I still think they couldve done better. Just play him his last year. Yall might get mad but I think bens accusations of rape are more of a concern then some weed. Its Weed WTF, and no im not a toker, beer is cheaper, really though weed is safer then beer. WHY, Is one legal one not. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Galax Steeler]

I guess I could see this if we knew we wouldn't re-sign him, I hope we can pick up someone like Julio Jones from Bama or Baldwin from Pitt, because Im not sure Sanders or Brown will be able to provide the big play threat Homes did. Its probably to early to tell that though.

I think you are getting ahead of yourself on this one Sanders and Brown will be fine they are not getting to much playing time now because of the crowd we have at wide receiver.

[Indo]

Holmes needed to go

He will eff up again, and he'll be out for a year.

[X-Terminator]

I still think they couldve done better. Just play him his last year. Yall might get mad but I think bens accusations of rape are more of a concern then some weed. Its Weed WTF, and no im not a toker, beer is cheaper, really though weed is safer then beer. WHY, Is one legal one not. Doesn't make sense to me.

If they would have kept him his last year, then he would have walked for nothing, because the Steelers were not going to re-sign him. Getting a 5th round draft pick, which was then flipped over to the Cards for McFadden, is better than nothing.

[BPS3akaWirels3]

He's a bum!!! When he spells team, he spells it T(HIM)M...

[CPanther95]

Too early to tell.

If his stash gets found in Sanchez's luggage, the Jets may call it the worst trade ever.

[GodfatherofSoul]

His silly drop ball celebration after *EVERY* catch got really old last night, too.

[MULLDOG24]

Yeah I watched the MNF game and Holmes dropped as many as he caught LOL!!! We got pretty much B-Mac for Holmes and I'm ok with that. With the emergence of Wallace and 2 fine young prospects waiting in the wings I think things will be better in the long run for the Steelers.

[fansince'76]

Yall might get mad but I think bens accusations of rape are more of a concern then some weed.

Maybe so, but you don't dump a franchise QB over accusations alone. Santonio may have been at least partially a sacrificial lamb for Ben's improprieties, but the Rooneys apparently felt a message needed to be sent, and I agree with that assessment. I also think it's only a matter of time before Santo gets nailed for weed again and gets a season's suspension.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I think the Steelers knew they likely wouldnt be able to meet the contract demands of Spliftonio next season and felt they might as well get something for him, as they only would have had him for 12 games anyways.

That coupled with the Ben fiasco........imagine if the Steelers had to deal with their starting QB and their #1 WR both suspended for 4 games to start the season??? Not even the Bengals had those issues. He got traded to send a message, save face and get something for a guy 1 strike away from a year suspension. Good trade.

[memphissteelergirl]

This subject has been examined and discussed ad nauseum.

The trade was made.

I will always appreciate his time as a Steeler...the epic catch in SB XLIII.

But he's a Jet now.

Move on.

[Dino 6 Rings]

this thread is hilarious. Holmes isn't the best WR in the game. When the Arizona Cardinals trade away Larry Fitgerald, that will be considered one of the worst trades in history.

But yes, the Walker trade from the Cowboys to the Vikings is, and pretty much always will be considered the Worst Trade in the history of the NFL by any team.

[CPanther95]

But yes, the Walker trade from the Cowboys to the Vikings is, and pretty much always will be considered the Worst Trade in the history of the NFL by any team.

... any team but the Cowboys.

[VTsteel]

to me it sounds like Santonio has a belief that he has already arrived and that's to bad for him.

Bill Cower said once (in reference to his own accomplishments) "The moment you think you've made it - Is the exact moment you are all done".

That quote has stuck with me for many years

[steeldawg]

Worst trade ever???? I dont even think it was a bad trade, considering moss went for a 3rd rounder and lets face it Santo is no Moss. Besides we couldnt resign him for the money he wanted anyhow so why not get value for him. Mike Wallace is filling in for him nicely and hes a bigger deep threat than holmes.

[Craic]

Yeah but trading up to get Troy was better than trading Santonio. We did get B-mack back for that 5th rounder so I'm fine with the trade.

You know, that is also true, and needs to be included in this discussion.

"With all the problems Santo was having off-field, a current four game suspension and the next suspension being a full year; Santo not being repentant at all; is his trade for B-mac a decent trade?
With that question, I HAVE to say, absolutely.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Just Googled "Worst Trades in NFL History" here are a couple that one blogger mentions.

Brett Favre to the Packers from the Falcons for a First Round pick that the Falcons used to draft Tony Smith. 329 carreer rushing yards.

Steve Young to the 49ers from the Bucs for a Second round pick and a 4th round pick. This was after the Bucs had drafted Vinny Testarverde with their 1st pick that year.

Jerome Bettis and a 3rd round pick to the Steelers for a 2nd and 4th round pick from the Rams. His replacement was Lawrence Phillips. Yeah, good job Rams.

Also of note, Mike Ditka traded 6 of his draft picks to move up in 1999 and draft Rickie Williams.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I thought it was hilarious when they were calling Santonio one of the top 10 WRs in the NFL last night? I guess going to the Jets automatically gets you that distinction. :lol:

[86WARD]

No. Mike Wallace is bigger, stronger, faster than Holmes. Holmes has legal problems. Holmes wasn't going to get the money he was going to want. Steelers in turn got a 5th rounder for him. They were asking a third...no one stepped up.

[86WARD]

Just Googled "Worst Trades in NFL History" here are a couple that one blogger mentions.

Brett Favre to the Packers from the Falcons for a First Round pick that the Falcons used to draft Tony Smith. 329 carreer rushing yards.

Steve Young to the 49ers from the Bucs for a Second round pick and a 4th round pick. This was after the Bucs had drafted Vinny Testarverde with their 1st pick that year.

Jerome Bettis and a 3rd round pick to the Steelers for a 2nd and 4th round pick from the Rams. His replacement was Lawrence Phillips. Yeah, good job Rams.

Also of note, Mike Ditka traded 6 of his draft picks to move up in 1999 and draft Rickie Williams.

Herschel Walker. [/thread].

[Count Steeler]

And what did the "best" wide receiver get? Randy Moss to the Vikings for a 1st round pick? Nope. Second? Nope. Third? Nope. Fourth? Yup.

Randy Moss > Santonio Holmes by 1 round? Holmes is the worst trade ever? Not even close.

[SteelGhost]

I appreciate Santo's catches wearing B & G, but it is what it is, I trust the Steelers FOs they made a good decision IMHO. Time to move on and see what our youngsters can do, looks like we have some nice prospects in Wallace, Sanders and Brown :thumbsup:

[Psycho Ward 86]

I thought it was hilarious when they were calling Santonio one of the top 10 WRs in the NFL last night? I guess going to the Jets automatically gets you that distinction. :lol:

Um yeah, he very well is. Wouldn't be laughing so much if he were still a productive member of the Steelers?

[silver & black]

It's a common thought that we could've gotten more, but in reality, a 5th was as good as we were going to get.

For starters, you already agree that we were going to move on from Holmes and were set on trading him.

Right off the bat, you're losing leverage. Teams know you want him to get out of town as quickly as possible. There is no "We'll trade him for the right price". This is damaged goods, a junker of a car so to speak. You don't have the leverage. You put up a "Best Offer" sign.

The other factors included:

1. The suspension.
2. Teams being reluctant to trade draft picks in general. Moss only went for a 3rd.
3. Another big, not talked about factor is the contract. This is Holmes final year. Lose a lot of value when the contract is about to expire.

I understand the hit we took with dealing Holmes, but I'm fine with the move.

Moss was for a 4th.

[SteelGhost]

Hey Silver.... congrats on last Sunday win, lol.

[silver & black]

Hey Silver.... congrats on last Sunday win, lol.

Thanks. I'm still having trouble believing it. :grin:

[steeldevil]

No.... Obviously not.

[HometownGal]

It is one of the best trades the Steelers have ever made. Including the Bettis trade.

5th round draft pick for a Hop-head heading into a 4 game suspension with no self examination and admitting of wrong, no desire to understand where he is causing problems-- and all this with him facing a 1 YEAR SUSPENSION for the next drug violation.

And they STILL Get a 5th round pick for him. Great job Steelers.

:applaudit: :thumbsup: :applaudit:

I'm glad that hemp head is gone. He goes against everything that embodies a Pittsburgh Steeler. :wave: asshole.

[Chidi29]

Moss was for a 4th.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5653186

"The Vikings will send a third-round 2011 draft pick to the Patriots in return for Moss and New England's seventh-round draft pick in 2012, a league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter on Wednesday."

[Count Steeler]

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5653186

"The Vikings will send a third-round 2011 draft pick to the Patriots in return for Moss and New England's seventh-round draft pick in 2012, a league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter on Wednesday."

I stand corrected. The first reports I heard were for a fourth round pick. Still not that much better, considering the "body of work" for the 2 receivers.

[Chidi29]

I think the Nevers/Mitchell deal turned out pretty bad, albeit for tragic unforseen reasons.

People do forget how good of a player Bobby Mitchell was. At one point, he was in the same backfield as Jim Brown.

[GBMelBlount]

Worst in history? No.

I Would have liked to have seen better than a 5th round pick though.

[Craic]

I still think they couldve done better. Just play him his last year. Yall might get mad but I think bens accusations of rape are more of a concern then some weed. Its Weed WTF, and no im not a toker, beer is cheaper, really though weed is safer then beer. WHY, Is one legal one not. Doesn't make sense to me.

"Its Weed".

Yeah, and it is a 1 YEAR SUSPENSION the next time it is found in his system, and he has NO remorse for doing the things that got him suspended.

I would absolutely agree with you that accusations against Ben are much worse.. and I was a little stumped as to how Tone could be let go and Ben still around. THEN... I saw the result. Ben was remorseful and trying to change. Tone... was just trying to change too.




from a bowl to a roach clip. It was THAT which got him shipped out.

[silver & black]

I stand corrected. The first reports I heard were for a fourth round pick. Still not that much better, considering the "body of work" for the 2 receivers.

I also stand corrected. I wasn't thinking about the latest trade. I was re-living the debacle when he was with the Raiders and we let him go for a 4th.

[SteelGhost]

Thanks. I'm still having trouble believing it. :grin:

You're welcome :tea:

[zulater]

I've believed right from the start the reason Holmes was traded is because he violated a personal bond that Tomlin had thought was established between the two of them going back to the incident where Holmes was sat against the Giants in 2008. If someone sits directly across from you in your office and looks you in the eye and gives you their word they wont do something ever again, only to do that very thing again at a later date, well I think that bridge is too scorched to ever cross again. I think that's the sort of man Tomlin is, and I think it's admirable.

[GodfatherofSoul]

There's also the message you're sending to your young players. You keep him on the team and you're basically creating a double standard. Holmes had 3 strikes and he blew it. If I hear one word about him getting psyched about our game for "revenge" I'm going to throw a brick through the TV.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Um yeah, he very well is. Wouldn't be laughing so much if he were still a productive member of the Steelers?

Since when? He wasn't a top 10 WR with the Steelers. He's not better than any of these guys:

Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Brandon Marshall
Reggie Wayne
Roddy White
Miles Austin
Anquan Boldin
DeSean Jackson
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss
Santana Moss
Wes Welker

There are other WRs that you could also add like Ocho Stinko and Marques Colston that have consistently put up better numbers than Tone. He's not a top 10 WR. Top 20 I'd say.

[Craic]

There's also the message you're sending to your young players. You keep him on the team and you're basically creating a double standard. Holmes had 3 strikes and he blew it. If I hear one word about him getting psyched about our game for "revenge" I'm going to throw a brick through the TV.


ROTFL

And concerning our young players, you are exactly right.... Now, how often have I said that to YOU! See, there's a first time for everything! :wink02: :chuckle:

[Psycho Ward 86]

Since when? He wasn't a top 10 WR with the Steelers. He's not better than any of these guys:

Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Brandon Marshall
Reggie Wayne
Roddy White
Miles Austin
Anquan Boldin
DeSean Jackson
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss
Santana Moss
Wes Welker

There are other WRs that you could also add like Ocho Stinko and Marques Colston that have consistently put up better numbers than Tone. He's not a top 10 WR. Top 20 I'd say.

Omit the bolded. I'll take Santo as a top 10. If not, a borderline top 10. The man is one of the most clutch and one of the best at creating YAC.

[zulater]

The truth is the Steelers did want to get more for Holmes, trouble was no takers outside of the Jets.

[BlastFurnace]

The truth is the Steelers did want to get more for Holmes, trouble was no takers outside of the Jets.

I don't believe that any longer after reading the NY Post article. The Jets were the first and only call the Steelers made. Rex Ryan jumped at the chance to get him and it was a done deal.

Me...I would have rather traded him to someone in the NFC for a 7th round pick in the 2050 draft.

[BlastFurnace]

Since when? He wasn't a top 10 WR with the Steelers. He's not better than any of these guys:

Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Brandon Marshall
Reggie Wayne
Roddy White
Miles Austin
Anquan Boldin
DeSean Jackson
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss
Santana Moss
Wes Welker

There are other WRs that you could also add like Ocho Stinko and Marques Colston that have consistently put up better numbers than Tone. He's not a top 10 WR. Top 20 I'd say.

I agree with everyone you wrote other than Santana Moss.

[zulater]

And who was their source Rex Ryan? Maybe, but I'm not buying. You hear any teams bitching about not getting a shot at Holmes? Think the Steelers wouldn't have traded him out out of conference if the could? The league knew Holmes was facing a four game suspension, and one more strike and he's out a year. Too much baggage for most teams taste.

[Wallace108]

Since when? He wasn't a top 10 WR with the Steelers. He's not better than any of these guys:

Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Brandon Marshall
Reggie Wayne
Roddy White
Miles Austin
Anquan Boldin
DeSean Jackson
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss
Santana Moss
Wes Welker

There are other WRs that you could also add like Ocho Stinko and Marques Colston that have consistently put up better numbers than Tone. He's not a top 10 WR. Top 20 I'd say.

Heck, I don't even think he was the best receiver in Pittsburgh. :noidea:

[SteelerFanInStl]

Heck, I don't even think he was the best receiver in Pittsburgh. :noidea:

I agree with you but I didn't write down Hines to try to keep from being a Homer. :lol:

[Wallace108]

I agree with you but I didn't write down Hines to try to keep from being a Homer. :lol:

:lol:
Actually, I was talking about Ward AND Wallace. :chuckle:

[CPanther95]

Ward, Wallace and Steve Smith.

[Count Steeler]

I got a feeling that Wallace will be making us say Santonio who?