Do you take Kenny Pickett if he is there at #20?

[EzraTank]

Do you take Kenny Pickett if he is there at #20?

I only ask because this CBS Sports Mock has him going to the Steelers ...

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2022-nfl-mock-draft-saints-and-steelers-target-quarterbacks-six-edge-rushers-go-in-first-round/

[Fire Goodell]

I'm more of a Howell fan but I suppose they would

[Rotorhead]

I am pretty sure the Broncos are going all in for Rodgers, so this mock has the Broncos picking Corral. Mocks are pretty much useless until FA has had some time to hash out. Broncos won’t be drafting a QB if they get AR, Eagles have 1000 first round picks, maybe they package them to move or trade some to get even more picks to later or next year. Too many variables and FA is probably going to be much more crazy for us this season with almost $50m in room to work.

[that1guy]

You absolutely take him. The Steelers as it stands have several glaring holes but the most glaring is a capable QB. The offensive line can be fixed through free agency with the money freed up through Ben, Najee will be a serious weapon with the addition of a QB that can actually make lateral movements and the WR Corp will be fine as long as the instant D. Johnson starts dropping passes he is benched and then moved to IR or the practice squad. This team goes nowhere without the addition of a true Starting QB.

[Mojouw]

No.

[DesertSteel]

Abso-freaking-lutely.

[86WARD]

I would not. I wouldn’t take any of these QBs in the first round.

[Edman]

Yes.

[polamalubeast]

So around 50% will not be happy if they draft Pickett and the other 50% will not be happy if they don't draft him...So it will be ugly here no matter what!

[SteeleReign]

Nope. I'd consider trading down to get more picks-too many holes to fill. Unless the pick at 20 is a no-brainer, of course.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[steelcityboyz]

Yes!

[vader29]

Yes.

[ETL]

No. Stop the run and run the ball. I prefer a stud OL or DT

[ThorndikeFFA]

Tough one. He put up some good numbers after Canada left Pitt. An issue?

His tiny hands (8.25) may be an issue (9 is considered standard issue for NFL QBs). He would have the 3rd smallest hands out of something like 650 QBs in the last 40 years. And an NFL football is bigger than an NCAA football. :shrug:

The Senior Bowl measurements and experience will determine a LOT with Mr. Pickett. The results of this poll might look different in a week.

[Mojouw]

Pickett had one year of big time production. Many comp this to Burrow.

But, from what I can gather, he’s a few ticks below Burrow in each individual physical attribute/QB skill.

How does that impact his projection as an NFL player? No idea. But my incredibly flawed opinion is that he gives me a vibe that he’s gonna end up on like the Baker Mayfield spectrum. Pretty good but likely not good enough.

[Edman]

Pickett had one year of big time production. Many comp this to Burrow.

But, from what I can gather, he’s a few ticks below Burrow in each individual physical attribute/QB skill.

How does that impact his projection as an NFL player? No idea. But my incredibly flawed opinion is that he gives me a vibe that he’s gonna end up on like the Baker Mayfield spectrum. Pretty good but likely not good enough.

You can't teach hand size. Pickett's tiny hands are a meme and will make him drop into "project" range.

[86WARD]

You can't teach hand size. Pickett's tiny hands are a meme and will make him drop into "project" range.

Part of the reason his measurements are low is because he is double jointed and his thumb doesn't point in the direction most QBs do. he is doing excersises to correct that and you also can increase your hand size through therapy. Burrow also measured on the small side.

[hawaiiansteeler]

You can't teach hand size. Pickett's tiny hands are a meme and will make him drop into "project" range.

Pickett opted not to have his hand size measured at the Senior Bowl, so we will have to wait until the Combine to find out just how small they really are.

[Dwinsgames]

Hard pass on Pickett

[Born2Steel]

I think if Pickett, Corral, or Howell are there at 20 you have to risk it. Try to upgrade the QB position.

[steelreserve]

Is it worth trading half a draft for any of the QBs in this class? No way in hell. Is it worth taking Pickett (or equivalent) if he happens to be there anyway at #20? You bet your ass.

I expect we will try to sign a veteran anyway beforehand, because having an all-or-nothing stake on such a crapshoot of a draft would be stupid. And Rudolph can't be a serious option as the starter next year, because let's face it, he sucks.

[Dwinsgames]

Part of the reason his measurements are low is because he is double jointed and his thumb doesn't point in the direction most QBs do. he is doing excersises to correct that and you also can increase your hand size through therapy. Burrow also measured on the small side.

HUGE difference in 9 inch hands (Burrow) and I am not gonna let you measure me at the sr bowl ( pickett ) who many reports believe 8 1/4 is the likely size ... where they pulled that number IDK but clearly someone somewhere has a preconceived idea that stuck ...

it took Pickett 5 years to put up 1st rounder like numbers , Most 1st round QBs do it in 3 .... steelers like to draft underclassmen in round 1 and I am not sure if they EVER drafted a 5th year SR in round 1 ....

I would pass and I believe the Steelers also pass on Pickett if he is there at 20

[Dwinsgames]

Howell career college stats

https://i.postimg.cc/14C6GJmP/Screenshot-2022-01-31-at-20-16-25-Sam-Howell-College-Stats-College-Football-at-Sports-Reference-com.png (https://postimg.cc/14C6GJmP)

Pickett career college stats ( 5 years and in many ways lesser stats than Howells 3 )

https://i.postimg.cc/Wh0NN1fK/Screenshot-2022-01-31-at-20-24-14-Kenny-Pickett-College-Stats-College-Football-at-Sports-Reference-c.png (https://postimg.cc/Wh0NN1fK)

[Born2Steel]

Is this assuming Pickett is there at 20 because he fell but the other QBs are gone already? Because if no QB has been taken by the 20th overall pick it really changes the question.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Pickett opted not to have his hand size measured at the Senior Bowl, so we will have to wait until the Combine to find out just how small they really are.

Somebody said they look around 8.25", which is something like 3rd smallest out of over 300 QB's that have been draft eligible in the past decade. But, his thumbs are double jointed which helps him hang onto the football.

After a week in Mobile, we should have a better indication if he is worth the #20 pick or not.

[Dwinsgames]

Somebody said they look around 8.25", which is something like 3rd smallest out of over 300 QB's that have been draft eligible in the past decade. But, his thumbs are double jointed which helps him hang onto the football.

After a week in Mobile, we should have a better indication if he is worth the #20 pick or not.

if they measure out at 8 1/4 they would be the 3rd smallest in 37 years

edit found the quote ...


Contextualizing Pickett’s hand size in the NFL Draft The conversation on Pickett’s hands is trending toward uncharted territory. If Pickett’s hands are confirmed to be 8 1/4 inches at the Senior Bowl, Pickett would have the third-smallest hands of 650 quarterbacks to measure over the past 37 seasons. (For more on this data — compiled by resident RAS expert Kent Lee Platte — click here (https://www.profootballnetwork.com/is-kenny-pickett-qb1-in-the-2022-nfl-draft/2/).) It’s a known issue, and it’s reportedly why Pickett wears two gloves.
It’s rare to see an NFL quarterback, let alone a starter, with that hand size. But the double-jointed thumb throws a wrench in an already trepidatious discussion. The double-jointed thumb won’t make Pickett’s hand bigger. However, if it adjusts the way he can grip the football and helps him handle the circumference, it may mitigate the grip concerns that usually come with smaller hands.

[Mojouw]

I get the argument for hand size. But…let’s just say he has massive hands that make scouts hearts soar. Fine.

Is he actually any good at being a QB or is he just a guy who outgrew his level of competition?

Mason Rudolph had some nice college stats.

[Dwinsgames]

I get the argument for hand size. But…let’s just say he has massive hands that make scouts hearts soar. Fine.

Is he actually any good at being a QB or is he just a guy who outgrew his level of competition?

Mason Rudolph had some nice college stats.

he didnt throw as many TD's in 5 years as Howell in 3 and Howell is an underclassmen not a red shirt ( 5th year ) SR

[Mojouw]

he didnt throw as many TD's in 5 years as Howell in 3 and Howell is an underclassmen not a red shirt ( 5th year ) SR

That’s what I suspected.

I feel like Pickett is getting hype because people are over correcting for “missing” their projections for Burrow. And afraid of doing it again, they’re elevating a one year wonder.

But I know next to nothing about the prospects.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I get the argument for hand size. But…let’s just say he has massive hands that make scouts hearts soar. Fine.

Is he actually any good at being a QB or is he just a guy who outgrew his level of competition?

Mason Rudolph had some nice college stats.

Honestly, I like how he is always on the balls of his feet in the pocket. He played baseball and other sports, so he just has that athletic ability where he moves and squares up nice to throw. He also seems rather accurate and willing to get footballs into tight windows. He appears to make quick decisions, but I dont know if its just the system he was in where its 1-read, 2-read and let it rip. Because at times he seems to get caught beyond that and then the rush comes.

But he is athletic enough to scramble for yardage, or move out of the pocket but still stay behind the LOS to look to pass.

Like Dwins says, Howell has a lot of good traits as well but I thought he was pretty deep in Scientology and dont know if that translates well to the NFL. They have a lot of bizzare rules and all. Leave Howell until day 3:)

[DesertSteel]

Like Dwins says, Howell has a lot of good traits as well but I thought he was pretty deep in Scientology and dont know if that translates well to the NFL. They have a lot of bizzare rules and all. Leave Howell until day 3:)
In that case draft them both!!

[ETL]

Taking a step back … geez guys, it’s really hard to know who will be good in the NFL. Clearly Brady had nothing spectacular. Brees looked like one of many clone QBs and Mahomes could easily have been a run and gun bust like so many before him. Maybe Peyton and Eli Manning and Ben and Philip Rivers were odds on favorite to be great but so many QBs just are duds.

and unlike other positions - this position doesn’t have room for error. If you pick a bad LB - well, he can still be of value for depth or play on special teams. Not with a 1st round QB. The money and opportunity cost spent are huge and the vast vast majority of them are busts.

to be honest, I have no idea Pickens or Howell or corral or Willis will be good. Or strong or rudder or whomever in this draft. Hell we could have the next Brady in this draft. It’s a crapshoot. The real question is Are the Steelers in a position to play the crapshoot game at this time?

[teegre]

Were the other QBs gone?

Is Linderbaum available?

[Fire Goodell]

Taking a step back … geez guys, it’s really hard to know who will be good in the NFL. Clearly Brady had nothing spectacular. Brees looked like one of many clone QBs and Mahomes could easily have been a run and gun bust like so many before him. Maybe Peyton and Eli Manning and Ben and Philip Rivers were odds on favorite to be great but so many QBs just are duds.

and unlike other positions - this position doesn’t have room for error. If you pick a bad LB - well, he can still be of value for depth or play on special teams. Not with a 1st round QB. The money and opportunity cost spent are huge and the vast vast majority of them are busts.

to be honest, I have no idea Pickens or Howell or corral or Willis will be good. Or strong or rudder or whomever in this draft. Hell we could have the next Brady in this draft. It’s a crapshoot. The real question is Are the Steelers in a position to play the crapshoot game at this time?

With no set starter at QB, I'd say yes, they are. Right now they have Rudolph and Haskins, who have proven to be nothing more than mediocre backups. If they want a capable veteran QB, that will cost a lot of $$$.

If a QB falls to them at 20 that they like, I say do it. QB is a position of need right now. And if anything's been proven in the modern NFL, is that if you want to be a contender, you need a franchise QB. Defense wins championships maybe once a decade, QB's win 9 out of 10

[hawaiiansteeler]

Defense wins championships maybe once a decade, QB's win 9 out of 10

I thought I read on here that those things don't really matter.

all we need to do is fire Tomlin and we will win another Super Bowl. :cool:

[ETL]

With no set starter at QB, I'd say yes, they are. Right now they have Rudolph and Haskins, who have proven to be nothing more than mediocre backups. If they want a capable veteran QB, that will cost a lot of $$$.

If a QB falls to them at 20 that they like, I say do it. QB is a position of need right now. And if anything's been proven in the modern NFL, is that if you want to be a contender, you need a franchise QB. Defense wins championships maybe once a decade, QB's win 9 out of 10

i agree with you on Rudolph and Haskins but I just see what the Rams did with Stafford and feel that we are just a QB away as well. With a stud QB (I’m a Rodgers fan) I would not be surprised if Dionte is a superstar with a QB that can hit him in stride all the time. And Claypool a deep threat again and Friermeuth a TD machine.

You say drafting a QB with the 20th pick will not cost us anything but it will. It will cost us getting a stud OL that can block for a proven veteran. The last two super bowl winners may well be Brady and Stafford and the teams that had the balls to go get them and pay em may get rewarded for doing so even if it cost them a lot

[Fire Goodell]

i agree with you on Rudolph and Haskins but I just see what the Rams did with Stafford and feel that we are just a QB away as well. With a stud QB (I’m a Rodgers fan) I would not be surprised if Dionte is a superstar with a QB that can hit him in stride all the time. And Claypool a deep threat again and Friermeuth a TD machine.

You say drafting a QB with the 20th pick will not cost us anything but it will. It will cost us getting a stud OL that can block for a proven veteran. The last two super bowl winners may well be Brady and Stafford and the teams that had the balls to go get them and pay em may get rewarded for doing so even if it cost them a lot

That is true. This team could be a contender with improvements on the offense

[86WARD]

Taking a step back … geez guys, it’s really hard to know who will be good in the NFL. Clearly Brady had nothing spectacular. Brees looked like one of many clone QBs and Mahomes could easily have been a run and gun bust like so many before him. Maybe Peyton and Eli Manning and Ben and Philip Rivers were odds on favorite to be great but so many QBs just are duds.

and unlike other positions - this position doesn’t have room for error. If you pick a bad LB - well, he can still be of value for depth or play on special teams. Not with a 1st round QB. The money and opportunity cost spent are huge and the vast vast majority of them are busts.

to be honest, I have no idea Pickens or Howell or corral or Willis will be good. Or strong or rudder or whomever in this draft. Hell we could have the next Brady in this draft. It’s a crapshoot. The real question is Are the Steelers in a position to play the crapshoot game at this time?

I’d rather not take a QB in the first round...so to answer your question: No.

[BlackAndGold]

1488219136878546944

[EzraTank]

Howell career college stats



Pickett career college stats ( 5 years and in many ways lesser stats than Howells 3 )

https://i.postimg.cc/Wh0NN1fK/Screenshot-2022-01-31-at-20-24-14-Kenny-Pickett-College-Stats-College-Football-at-Sports-Reference-c.png (https://postimg.cc/Wh0NN1fK)

I don't want Pickett, he had to repeat his senior year, what a dummy! ;)

[Dwinsgames]

look at parameters ...

Howell lost all of his play makers to the last draft , and some of his line , those that replaced them where not of the same quality ( not close )

whereas

it took Pickett 5 years of playing QB in college to have a really good year , most look at that as contract year type numbers and discredit it largely as they should ... its liken to a 1st year college guy going back to high school obviously they SHOULD dominate ...

Howell Dominated college as a FRESHMAN and Sophomore and his Junior year was still really good...

Howell 92 TDs in 3 years ...
Pickett 81 TD's in 5 years ....

Yards per attempt

Howell 9.2
Pickett 7.3

Passer rating for career

Howell 164.2
Pickett 136.3

Picketts highest passer rating for career was this past season 165.3 while Howell averaged for his 3 years 164.2

then you take into account hand size , footwork , mobility , pocket awareness , arm strength , ability to throw off platform and all the other stuff and if you are unable to see who the better QB is I am not sure anything anyone has to say helps you as an evaluator ....

[Born2Steel]

look at parameters ...

Howell lost all of his play makers to the last draft , and some of his line , those that replaced them where not of the same quality ( not close )

whereas

it took Pickett 5 years of playing QB in college to have a really good year , most look at that as contract year type numbers and discredit it largely as they should ... its liken to a 1st year college guy going back to high school obviously they SHOULD dominate ...

Howell Dominated college as a FRESHMAN and Sophomore and his Junior year was still really good...

Howell 92 TDs in 3 years ...
Pickett 81 TD's in 5 years ....

Yards per attempt

Howell 9.2
Pickett 7.3

Passer rating for career

Howell 164.2
Pickett 136.3

Picketts highest passer rating for career was this past season 165.3 while Howell averaged for his 3 years 164.2

then you take into account hand size , footwork , mobility , pocket awareness , arm strength , ability to throw off platform and all the other stuff and if you are unable to see who the better QB is I am not sure anything anyone has to say helps you as an evaluator ....

All understood.

IF...Howell is already picked, Pickett is there at 20, do you select Pickett?

[Dwinsgames]

All understood.

IF...Howell is already picked, Pickett is there at 20, do you select Pickett?

no

I think he will wash out of the league within 4 years

[Born2Steel]

no

I think he will wash out of the league within 4 years

Do you think he upgrades the current QB situation? Maybe MR is better than Pickett at this point. Maybe Haskins is better than both. Bottom line is the Steelers need a QB, if not for 2022, for 2023. I think bringing in any one of these guys is a good idea.

FA QBs....MR, Haskins, and a rookie = market value price
FA QBs....MR, and Haskins only = above market value price

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

In that case draft them both!!

Like Washington did with Bob Griffin III and Kirk Cousins. Great idea.

[Dwinsgames]

Do you think he upgrades the current QB situation? Maybe MR is better than Pickett at this point. Maybe Haskins is better than both. Bottom line is the Steelers need a QB, if not for 2022, for 2023. I think bringing in any one of these guys is a good idea.

FA QBs....MR, Haskins, and a rookie = market value price
FA QBs....MR, and Haskins only = above market value price

I honestly do not feel like he is an upgrade ( esp once you consider cost factor )

[polamalubeast]

2 yards per pass attempts is very huge...I don't know what was their competition but 9.2 vs 7.3 is a huge difference no matter what

[polamalubeast]

1488543679929204740

[Dwinsgames]

2 yards per pass attempts is very huge...I don't know what was their competition but 9.2 vs 7.3 is a huge difference no matter what

Pickett comp 62.4%

Howell comp 63.8%

[polamalubeast]

Pickett comp 62.4%

Howell comp 63.8%

I was talking more about the level of competition that his two were facing in college

[Dwinsgames]

I was talking more about the level of competition that his two were facing in college

very similar schedules

https://goheels.com/sports/football/schedule/2021




(https://goheels.com/sports/football/schedule/2021)

- - - Updated - - -

https://pittsburghpanthers.com/sports/football/schedule/2021

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

2 yards per pass attempts is very huge...I don't know what was their competition but 9.2 vs 7.3 is a huge difference no matter what

You would need to watch the Pitt offense compared to the UNC offense. I can see that Pitt throws a lot more short and intermediate passes. Tries to get their receivers on the edge vs DB's and let them get RAC yards. UNC was more Read-Option, some RPO, but more apt to take deep shots down the field and Howell is a good deep ball passer, IMO.

I'm not big on splitting hairs with a ton of stats. If stats told the whole story, then nobody would ever go and watch a guy play in person to scout them. Stats can be misleading if you read into what you already want to believe.

[polamalubeast]

You would need to watch the Pitt offense compared to the UNC offense. I can see that Pitt throws a lot more short and intermediate passes. Tries to get their receivers on the edge vs DB's and let them get RAC yards. UNC was more Read-Option, some RPO, but more apt to take deep shots down the field and Howell is a good deep ball passer, IMO.

I'm not big on splitting hairs with a ton of stats. If stats told the whole story, then nobody would ever go and watch a guy play in person to scout them. Stats can be misleading if you read into what you already want to believe.

Good point and I hadn't thought of that but can Pickett be a consistant threat in the deep pass?

[Born2Steel]

You would need to watch the Pitt offense compared to the UNC offense. I can see that Pitt throws a lot more short and intermediate passes. Tries to get their receivers on the edge vs DB's and let them get RAC yards. UNC was more Read-Option, some RPO, but more apt to take deep shots down the field and Howell is a good deep ball passer, IMO.

I'm not big on splitting hairs with a ton of stats. If stats told the whole story, then nobody would ever go and watch a guy play in person to scout them. Stats can be misleading if you read into what you already want to believe.

Very true. From college stats, to size, 40 times, accuracy%, etc etc.....Pickett, Howell, and Corral are all this year's Baker Mayfield. 6'1"ish-200lbish, 5.0ish/40, comp% 63-65. Could be the next Mahomes, could be the next Mayfield. Does that upgrade your QB room. If yes, you take one if available.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Good point and I hadn't thought of that but can Pickett be a consistent threat in the deep pass?

According to Senior Bowl measurements, Pickett is 6'3", 221 lbs. I have seen pro comparisons to Derek Carr, but not as strong of an arm as Carr. He has good velocity on the ball on short and intermediate passes and isnt afraid to throw into tight windows. I think the throws a decent deep ball, but obviously not as good as some of the guys with stronger arms.

I want to see how he handles a new offense this week at the Senior Bowl and if he can make the reads. My only real fear is that he is a guy that really benefitted from his system at Pitt and it didnt prepare him well for the NFL as much as it made him productive in that system.

Otherwise, a tall slender guy with small hands that throws good intermediate passes and is athletic enough to evade the rush at times. He is Teddy Bridgewater with a mullet might be my pro comp.

[polamalubeast]

1488599721216299020

[Dwinsgames]

1488599721216299020

I mean why wouldnt he they know one another ..

what would you expect him to do ignore him LOL

these guys pass each other in halls and corridors all the time

[DesertSteel]

I mean why wouldnt he they know one another ..

what would you expect him to do ignore him LOL

these guys pass each other in halls and corridors all the time


It's all a smoke screen bro to throw teams off the trail of them drafting Howell!

[cubanstogie]

Were the other QBs gone?

Is Linderbaum available?
Other QBs irrelevant if Linderbaum available ( highly doubt). He has Steelers written all over him. Keep the legacy of HOF centers alive in Pittsburgh!

[DesertSteel]

I'm looking forward to seeing videos of Pickett's hand workouts. They're gonna be epic!

[teegre]

I'm looking forward to seeing videos of Pickett's hand workouts. They're gonna be epic!


Skip ahead to 2:45



https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=gwY4IPfrIW8

[EzraTank]

Other QBs irrelevant if Linderbaum available ( highly doubt). He has Steelers written all over him. Keep the legacy of HOF centers alive in Pittsburgh!

Plus he's used to wearing black and gold already!

[86WARD]

So without exceptional talent around him, Howell can’t succeed?

[Dwinsgames]

So without exceptional talent around him, Howell can’t succeed?

nobody can if you have a scrub line and your skills pos players where all drafted the year before and the guys taking their place are not half as good yet he still managed a 154.2 QBR (164.2 career average ) Picketts career average is 136.3 FYI

[Edman]

So without exceptional talent around him, Howell can’t succeed?

A top flight quarterback can cover some of your team's issues but even then the players around him have to make plays. Otherwise you have Dan Marino. Burrow has a shit o-line, but also has escapability and Ja'Marr Chase to throw to.

[Dwinsgames]

A top flight quarterback can cover some of your team's issues but even then the players around him have to make plays. Otherwise you have Dan Marino. Burrow has a shit o-line, but also has escapability and Ja'Marr Chase to throw to.


and Boyd and T Higgens ( maybe the most under rated WR in the NFL )

[86WARD]

nobody can if you have a scrub line and your skills pos players where all drafted the year before and the guys taking their place are not half as good yet he still managed a 154.2 QBR (164.2 career average ) Picketts career average is 136.3 FYI

That’s not exactly true though. QBs can cover up some of this deficiencies. Can Howell do that or does he need the exceptional talent around him as well?

[Fire Goodell]

A top flight quarterback can cover some of your team's issues but even then the players around him have to make plays. Otherwise you have Dan Marino. Burrow has a shit o-line, but also has escapability and Ja'Marr Chase to throw to.

clayton and duper were pretty good. but yeah they never had a running game or defense.

[Dwinsgames]

That’s not exactly true though. QBs can cover up some of this deficiencies. Can Howell do that or does he need the exceptional talent around him as well?

his worst skill pos ( and line play group ) came in 2021 and he still managed a qbr of 154.2 ( 18 points higher than Picketts average ) but 10 points lower than his own average ........

Pickett career average 136.3 ...... Howell career average 165.2 .............

and then he has the ability to run if need be to help off set the lack of play makers around him ( 828 rushing yards in 2021 ) when he had playmakers the prior two years combined 181 yards rushing ... so he CAN run just would rather make plays with his arm

[DesertSteel]

his worst skill pos ( and line play group ) came in 2021 and he still managed a qbr of 154.2 ( 18 points higher than Picketts average ) but 10 points lower than his own average ........

Pickett career average 136.3 ...... Howell career average 165.2 .............

and then he has the ability to run if need be to help off set the lack of play makers around him ( 828 rushing yards in 2021 ) when he had playmakers the prior two years combined 181 yards rushing ... so he CAN run just would rather make plays with his arm
What are Howell's weaknesses?

[Dwinsgames]

What are Howell's weaknesses?

I fail to see any glaring weaknesses ...

The internet would have one to believe he is a 1 read guy but nothing can be further from the truth , he is fantastic at presnap reads so he knows where he wants to go with the ball prior to ever taking the snap based on what the def is doing not what they predetermined to do ...

plenty of examples where he goes through his second 3rd and even 4th read before making a throw or pulling it down and scrambling...

[DesertSteel]

I fail to see any glaring weaknesses ...

The internet would have one to believe he is a 1 read guy but nothing can be further from the truth , he is fantastic at presnap reads so he knows where he wants to go with the ball prior to ever taking the snap based on what the def is doing not what they predetermined to do ...

plenty of examples where he goes through his second 3rd and even 4th read before making a throw or pulling it down and scrambling...
Sounds like if you have the #1 overall pick that you'd take Howell.

[Dwinsgames]

Sounds like if you have the #1 overall pick that you'd take Howell.

nope

never been a believer in taking a specific Pos #1 over all ( most times a QB it seems )

if I had the #1 over all I would ALWAYS trade back , its to over valued , teams pay to much for that privilege ..far more value in this years 10 , 14 and 40 something and next years 1 (made up per example) than any 1 player no matter who he is IMO ....

[polamalubeast]

nope

never been a believer in taking a specific Pos #1 over all ( most times a QB it seems )

if I had the #1 over all I would ALWAYS trade back , its to over valued , teams pay to much for that privilege ..far more value in this years 10 , 14 and 40 something and next years 1 (made up per example) than any 1 player no matter who he is IMO ....

I disagree on that....Quality is much more important than the quantity....For a long time it was one of the major problem of the Browns (like between 2011 to 2017) .They have often traded back and they have always been awful despite that.. ..They had the chance to take players like Julio Jones in 2011 and Deshaun Watson in 2017 but they preferred the quantity over quality

The rams became a great team when they started prioritizing quality over quantity....The RGIII trade had no major impact on them

The Bengals would have been out of the playoffs this year (and probably Zach Taylor probably would have been fired at this point) if they had accepted the 2020 offer of the dolphins for Burrow and drafted Tua after that.

It's very rare that you can hit in most of the pick you got back...Just look of all the draft pick of the Browns in the Julio Jones trade or the rams in the RGIII trade...It was not good.It was still the right decision for the rams to do the RGIII trade, but it didn't have a major impact for them.

[dislocatedday]

Sounds like if you have the #1 overall pick that you'd take Howell.

After the 2020 college season, I kept seeing Howell listed as the projected #1 overall pick for 2022 in those "way too early" mock drafts. Then he was not as successful this past season and his draft stock dropped. Did Howell all of a sudden just suck with glaring deficiencies that became evident in 2021, or is the whole "media draft experts" business really just a crapshoot where rankings and evaluations change on a whim.

I am coming around to the idea of Howell. Look at Trevor Lawrence this past year with the Jags. Lawrence was the most highly touted QB prospect coming into the NFL that I can remember since Andrew Luck a decade ago. Lawrence did not have a good year by almost any measure, but was that because he was over-evaluated and his skills are not really that great, or is it that the Jags failed to support him in so many ways (weak oline, bad coaching, lack of skiil players, etc.)?

[Dwinsgames]

I disagree on that....Quality is much more important than the quantity....For a long time it was one of the major problem of the Browns (like between 2011 to 2017) .They have often traded back and they have always been awful despite that.. ..They had the chance to take players like Julio Jones in 2011 and Deshaun Watson in 2017 but they preferred the quantity over quality

The rams became a great team when they started prioritizing quality over quantity....The RGIII trade had no major impact on them

The Bengals would have been out of the playoffs this year (and probably Zach Taylor probably would have been fired at this point) if they had accepted the 2020 offer of the dolphins for Burrow and drafted Tua after that.

It's very rare that you can hit in most of the pick you got back...Just look at the pick of the Browns in the Julio Jones trade or the rams in the RGIII trade

it is easier to hit on multiple high 1st round picks than to hit on the 1st over all when it comes to a QB and history is proof of such ... for every Joe Burrow you find you will find 2 or more Busts because QB's are forced selections because it is a QB driven league ...


1st QBs taken ( most times 1st player taken )

often times not even close to being the best QB taken in that draft class



2021 Trevor Lawrence .... to soon to tell but Mac Jones taken 14 picks later looks better thus far
2020 Joe Burrow .... to soon to tell Burrow is great but so is Herbert drafted 5 spots and 2 QBs later
2019 Kyler Murray ... to soon to be certain but it sure looks like the bets QB in that class to date
2018 Baker Mayfield ... no way worth #1 over all pick and not close to best in his class , Josh Allen taken 6 spots later and 2 qbs later is clearly the best QB of this class
2017 Mitch trubisky ..taken 1st over all and a bust thus far but the next 2 QBs taken #10 and #12 over all are clearly the stars of the class in Mahomes and Watson
2016 jerad Goff .... 1st over all but the 8th QB drafted that year is without question the class of the bunch in Prescott with several busts in between
2015 Jamies Winston ... this class was a wash as far as star power at QB and the first 2 over all were QBs
2014 Blake Bortles ..got to go to round 2 to find the best QB in this Class and thats Carr and he isnt great .. Bridgewater may have been but the gruesome injury took plenty away from him
2013 EJ Manual.... round 2 gave us Geno Smith but it took him a long time to show any value ( this year actually )
2012 Andrew Luck ... to short lived to be worthy of the draft slot IMO 4 QBs in first 22 picks and none of them lasted or are any good Tannehill only one left and he is MEH
2011 Cam Newton ..a few years as superman but short lived ..the red rifle after that 3 qbs later in round 2
2010 Sam Bradford talk about mad over hype here he is ... next best guy and only 1 left in the league is colt mccoy who is a career backup / spot starter
2009 Matt Stafford .......... career speaks for itself
2008 Matt Ryan........ not nearly as good as given credit for IMO surely not #1 over all worthy
2007 JaMarcus Russell ... epic fail
2006 Vince Young ....epic fail
2005 Alex Smith nice career but not #1 over all worthy Aaron Rogers was 23 picks later .........
2004 Eli Manning .... he will one day make the HoF but not the best from his draft class Ben was selected 10 picks later with Rivers in between
2003 Carson Palmer not #1 over all worthy IMO ....
2002 David Carr ... epic fail
2001 Mike Vick ... hell of a running back that could throw some but not a qb FIRST imo HELLA TALENTED dual threat tho
2000 Chad Pennington ...decent enough but not who I would want as the face of a franchise


so its easy to spent that 1st over all pick on a QB and end up smelling like shit

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

So without exceptional talent around him, Howell can’t succeed?

Nope, he is reliant on having good talent. Teams should focus on Pickett, Willis, Corral, Ridder instead.

For reference, check out Josh Allen's junior year when he had good receivers and compare it to his senior year when he had limited talent around him. Josh Allen had one of the lowest completion percentages of any top QB prospect. The guy is destined to bust.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

What are Howell's weaknesses?

Height. 6'1/4"

Some inconsistent accuracy at times. His throwing mechanics sometimes is weird, I thought like he shot put it, but Daniel Jeremiah said last night on NFL network that he gets too much weight on his front foot sometimes when he throws the football. That was totally what I was seeing and could not describe it, other than its like throwing a baseball from RT field to 3rd base and you dont time your step to the front foot to end, when your arm is coming thru. Andrew Luck supposedly was like that at times.

I also think that because of his running success, that he sometimes likes to tuck and run if the first read or 2 isnt there, but at times he reads full field so who knows what goes thru his mind.

I saw Pickett interview on NFL network and some of his reps in practice. I like how he moves and throws on the run. Liked how he was chatting up his O line(good leadership). Was good to hear how he worked on his mental side of the game from '20 to '21 and reading defenses and coverages with Mark Whipple. He is looking like he is worthy of #20 pick. But if he keeps showing well this week, he will be drafted before that.

[Born2Steel]

TheDraftNetwork has Pickett as their QB1 and slotted #20 overall. So...According to that scout site the Steelers would have every QB in this draft to choose from IF the draft fell according to their board and BPA. However, NONE of the top QBs fall to pick 52.

How would this change your draft process?

[Dwinsgames]

TheDraftNetwork has Pickett as their QB1 and slotted #20 overall. So...According to that scout site the Steelers would have every QB in this draft to choose from IF the draft fell according to their board and BPA. However, NONE of the top QBs fall to pick 52.

How would this change your draft process?

it wouldnt ...

the only QB I want is Howell if he is there I take him , if not I could go a plethora of ways in no specific order DT , OT , OG , OC S, CB

[Born2Steel]

it wouldnt ...

the only QB I want is Howell if he is there I take him , if not I could go a plethora of ways in no specific order DT , OT , OG , OC S, CB

With 4-5 1st round/early second round QBs still on the board at my pick, I'm thinking trade back and pick up a later 1st plus an additional 2nd and 3rd. This is 1st round value for your pick of all the QBs in this draft. Maybe even add on a 2023 1st round pick in compensation. Obviously you have to find a trade partner but that scenario could be a golden ticket, IMO.

[86WARD]

his worst skill pos ( and line play group ) came in 2021 and he still managed a qbr of 154.2 ( 18 points higher than Picketts average ) but 10 points lower than his own average ........

Pickett career average 136.3 ...... Howell career average 165.2 .............

and then he has the ability to run if need be to help off set the lack of play makers around him ( 828 rushing yards in 2021 ) when he had playmakers the prior two years combined 181 yards rushing ... so he CAN run just would rather make plays with his arm

So then you think it doesn’t matter if he has his receivers or skill players. I’m not sure why you keep comparing to Pickett?

[polamalubeast]

it is easier to hit on multiple high 1st round picks than to hit on the 1st over all when it comes to a QB and history is proof of such ... for every Joe Burrow you find you will find 2 or more Busts because QB's are forced selections because it is a QB driven league ...


1st QBs taken ( most times 1st player taken )

often times not even close to being the best QB taken in that draft class



2021 Trevor Lawrence .... to soon to tell but Mac Jones taken 14 picks later looks better thus far
2020 Joe Burrow .... to soon to tell Burrow is great but so is Herbert drafted 5 spots and 2 QBs later
2019 Kyler Murray ... to soon to be certain but it sure looks like the bets QB in that class to date
2018 Baker Mayfield ... no way worth #1 over all pick and not close to best in his class , Josh Allen taken 6 spots later and 2 qbs later is clearly the best QB of this class
2017 Mitch trubisky ..taken 1st over all and a bust thus far but the next 2 QBs taken #10 and #12 over all are clearly the stars of the class in Mahomes and Watson
2016 jerad Goff .... 1st over all but the 8th QB drafted that year is without question the class of the bunch in Prescott with several busts in between
2015 Jamies Winston ... this class was a wash as far as star power at QB and the first 2 over all were QBs
2014 Blake Bortles ..got to go to round 2 to find the best QB in this Class and thats Carr and he isnt great .. Bridgewater may have been but the gruesome injury took plenty away from him
2013 EJ Manual.... round 2 gave us Geno Smith but it took him a long time to show any value ( this year actually )
2012 Andrew Luck ... to short lived to be worthy of the draft slot IMO 4 QBs in first 22 picks and none of them lasted or are any good Tannehill only one left and he is MEH
2011 Cam Newton ..a few years as superman but short lived ..the red rifle after that 3 qbs later in round 2
2010 Sam Bradford talk about mad over hype here he is ... next best guy and only 1 left in the league is colt mccoy who is a career backup / spot starter
2009 Matt Stafford .......... career speaks for itself
2008 Matt Ryan........ not nearly as good as given credit for IMO surely not #1 over all worthy
2007 JaMarcus Russell ... epic fail
2006 Vince Young ....epic fail
2005 Alex Smith nice career but not #1 over all worthy Aaron Rogers was 23 picks later .........
2004 Eli Manning .... he will one day make the HoF but not the best from his draft class Ben was selected 10 picks later with Rivers in between
2003 Carson Palmer not #1 over all worthy IMO ....
2002 David Carr ... epic fail
2001 Mike Vick ... hell of a running back that could throw some but not a qb FIRST imo HELLA TALENTED dual threat tho
2000 Chad Pennington ...decent enough but not who I would want as the face of a franchise


so its easy to spent that 1st over all pick on a QB and end up smelling like shit

I understand and this is an example that you don't need to tank to get a QB, but my point is I was speaking in general, since yes a high pick is not guaranteed, but it's the same if you have several picks too, since it is unlikely that you will be able to have all good picks with its multiple picks...The rams with RGIII or my exemple with the browns are some of the exemple.

Quality has always been more important than quantity...The only times I would make a major trade down is if I get an extra first round pick the next year from a team that isn't sure they have a good season, like the giants did with the bears in the last draft and they will have an additional top 10 pick because of it

[Dwinsgames]

my point being if drafting a QB there is a very high chance it is a bust pick (more busts than hits with QBs) so I trade back , go ahead take a QB but gain other selections that are far more likely to be successful selections so I strengthened my team even if the QB washes out ...

If I stand pat draft the QB and he is a wash I do not have those other picks safeguarding my draft and my teams roster

[polamalubeast]

Future Browns?

1488971010816811011

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

While all the signal-callers from the West seemed to struggle gripping the ball in today’s wet conditions, Kenny Pickett seemed to struggle the most. He delivered several nice short and intermediate passes, but he also seemed most adversely affected by the weather than any other quarterback this morning.

Desmond Ridder was the best quarterback on the National squad today. He was inconsistent during drills, but he did drop a few nice passes into receivers’ hands. During full scrimmage, he made several outstanding throws and showed a nice degree of accuracy — something that has been missing from his game.

Carson Strong was inconsistent all day. Early on, he delivered several nice throws in drills. Yet again, he seemed all too happy to fling the ball downfield during scrimmage trying to show off his arm strength, and the results were poor.


2022 Senior Bowl Practice Report: National Team (profootballnetwork.com) (https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2022-senior-bowl-practice-report-national-team/)

[teegre]

After the 2020 college season, I kept seeing Howell listed as the projected #1 overall pick for 2022 in those "way too early" mock drafts.

Yep

[CTSteelfan]

I voted no to the poll question. Any chance Pickett drops to 2nd round? I would like to see OL or DL pick in 1st. We'll see what FA brings before the draft.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I voted no to the poll question. Any chance Pickett drops to 2nd round? I would like to see OL or DL pick in 1st. We'll see what FA brings before the draft.

no chance, he most likely will be gone when it's our turn to pick at 1(20).

I would prefer OL or DL in the 1st round also.

and welcome to the board :drink:

[CTSteelfan]

Thank you hawaiiansteeler.

[teegre]

Any of these QBs are an upgrade over Rudolph. Our defense will keep us in every game; if we can get a little better performance from our QB, matched with an improved O-line/running game, we can make the AFCCG (and, IMO, the Super Bowl).

Orlando Brown, Jr. (my dream free agent) might be tagged by the Chiefs... but, Terron Armstead could be stolen away form the Saints (since they have major cap problems). Either way, adding a LT (along with a center on Day 2) turns Najee from the leading rusher for rookie RBs to the rushing leader for ALL RBs.

R1: QB*
R2: Perrion Winfrey, DE/DT, Oklahoma
R3: Eric Lindstrom, C, BC

*Howell would be my druthers (and Colbert's as well), but if it is Pickett, then so be it.

[Orion]

i think the odds are a lot better that armstead becomes a bengal than a steeler. maybe as a consolation they can get the bengals cast off tackle riley reiff on the cheap. thats more of a steelers move.

winfrey would be a nice get to replace tuitt. i think he made himself some money at the senior bowl and wont be available for the 2nd pick.

[DesertSteel]

Kenny Pickett's (the QB not the country singer) hands have grown since the combine (8 1/2"). At his pro day they measured 8 5/8". This should net him a couple extra million!!!

[steelreserve]

Well, apparently we could've gotten Matt Ryan for a third-round pick while the Falcons ate the $40 million in dead money, so now this looks kind of silly.

[86WARD]

Well, apparently we could've gotten Matt Ryan for a third-round pick while the Falcons ate the $40 million in dead money, so now this looks kind of silly.

Matt Ryan was maybe a millimeter better than Ben Roethlisberger.

[Orion]

Well, apparently we could've gotten Matt Ryan for a third-round pick while the Falcons ate the $40 million in dead money, so now this looks kind of silly.

strange move for the dirty birds considering whats left in the market. who can they get thats actually any better than Ryan ? to eat dead money with zero prospect of marginally upgraded or saving money on the QB position just seems odd. the cost / benefit doesnt seem to be there.

[86WARD]

strange move for the dirty birds considering whats left in the market. who can they get thats actually any better than Ryan ? to eat dead money with zero prospect of marginally upgraded or saving money on the QB position just seems odd. the cost / benefit doesnt seem to be there.

Marcus Mariotta

[DesertSteel]

I'd rather work with the upside of Trubisky than start again with an aging relic.

[86WARD]

I'd rather work with the upside of Trubisky than start again with an aging relic.

Seems to be the thought process the Falcons are taking as well?

[DesertSteel]

Every interview I see with Pickett, I can’t help but to stare at his hands the whole time. Lol. Make it stop!

[Fire Goodell]

Matt Ryan was maybe a millimeter better than Ben Roethlisberger.

that's what she said

[hawaiiansteeler]

that's what she said

every millimeter counts.

[86WARD]

that's what she said

https://media0.giphy.com/media/XBCJIv6xAyDfrajXoe/giphy.gif

[teegre]

Tomlin and Rhule ;Carolina) were the only two HCs at Pickett’s pro day.

[Shoes]

I'd have no problem if the Steelers took Pickett or Howell. Pickett's hand size doesn't scare me, what scares me is players like Willis who hold the ball away from their body with one hand when running. I'd be ok with tiny Jordan Davis too. Just so they pick up a good blocking TE to add some spice with PF I'm good. :chuckle:

Has Tomlin's dinner list been posted yet?

[EzraTank]

Tomlin and Rhule ;Carolina) were the only two HCs at Pickett’s pro day.

I think Carolina is taking him at #6.

[teegre]

I think Carolina is taking him at #6.

It’s as much of a lock as there I’ve seen in a draft (outside of the #1 overall).

[teegre]

I'd have no problem if the Steelers took Pickett or Howell. Pickett's hand size doesn't scare me, what scares me is players like Willis who hold the ball away from their body with one hand when running. I'd be ok with tiny Jordan Davis too. Just so they pick up a good blocking TE to add some spice with PF I'm good. :chuckle:

Has Tomlin's dinner list been posted yet?

Draft “Tiny” to play NT… and also TE. :wink02:

[DesertSteel]

I think Carolina is taking him at #6.
I think they trade for Mayfield instead.

[cubanstogie]

I think they trade for Mayfield instead.
Im hoping no team gives Browns offer for Baker and they cut him. I don’t follow salaries and cap space at all so not sure if cutting him is advantageous but it must help some. Let’s see if google knows.

[DesertSteel]

Im hoping no team gives Browns offer for Baker and they cut him. I don’t follow salaries and cap space at all so not sure if cutting him is advantageous but it must help some. Let’s see if google knows.
I think that's what teams are waiting for. They know the Browns are backed into a corner.

[cubanstogie]

No cap help if cut. Damn looks like they’ll hold on for compensation

[Born2Steel]

Is Baker Mayfield better than any/all of the following?: Mitch Trubisky, Mason Rudolph, Dwayne Haskins ???

As for Pickett....Not at #20, IMO. The hands are an issue. Smaller hands in weather is an issue. It's just a physical measurement that has a standard.

[Shoes]

I think the larger concerns on hands might just be DJ dropping balls in a playoff game.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Every interview I see with Pickett, I can’t help but to stare at his hands the whole time. Lol. Make it stop!

https://c.tenor.com/0cTSWqyg9uoAAAAC/hand-ricky-bobby.gif

[DesertSteel]

No cap help if cut. Damn looks like they’ll hold on for compensation
They’ll end up taking 5th or 6th round pick.

[EzraTank]

Is Baker Mayfield better than any/all of the following?: Mitch Trubisky, Mason Rudolph, Dwayne Haskins ???

As for Pickett....Not at #20, IMO. The hands are an issue. Smaller hands in weather is an issue. It's just a physical measurement that has a standard.

Michael Vick has the same size hands and played here in the winter. Pickett played on the same field in college. Yes the NFL ball is a little bigger but I think the hands thing is ridiculous.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I saw a great comparison that Pickett's skillset is similar to Matt Hasselbeck. Athletic, good accuracy, good enough arm to make all the throws, but not the really strong arm like Elway, Marino, Ben, Josh Allen, etc.

So do I spend the #20 pick on a young Matt Hasselbeck? Not this time around. Too many other positions of need.

[Fire Goodell]

Michael Vick has the same size hands and played here in the winter. Pickett played on the same field in college. Yes the NFL ball is a little bigger but I think the hands thing is ridiculous.

I agree. Mike Vick also led a playoff win at Lambeau field vs the Packers

[Shoes]

This picture of Tomlin looking at willis is the exact look Tomlin had for Rudolph. :lol:

No question who Tomlin wants.


https://steelersdepot.com/2022/03/qb-malik-willis-says-he-had-pro-day-dinner-with-mike-tomlin/

[Squeegee Thompson]

This picture of Tomlin looking at willis is the exact look Tomlin had for Rudolph. :lol:

No question who Tomlin wants.


https://steelersdepot.com/2022/03/qb-malik-willis-says-he-had-pro-day-dinner-with-mike-tomlin/

And just like when Cowher really wanted to take Shawn Andrews over that QB from the MAC who hadn't played against elite defenses and was coming out as a Junior, only to have the owner pull rank on him - I'm hoping Tomlin's man-crush with Willis gets vetoed by the cooler heads in the room.

[Shoes]

And just like when Cowher really wanted to take Shawn Andrews over that QB from the MAC who hadn't played against elite defenses and was coming out as a Junior, only to have the owner pull rank on him - I'm hoping Tomlin's man-crush with Willis gets vetoed by the cooler heads in the room.

I sure hope so.

[ETL]

The fact that the Steelers signed Trubisky and is looking to draft a QB round 1 basically tells us that they think Rudolph and Haskins are HOT GARBAGE!!!

we should start counting whatever we were going to pay Rudolph and Haskins as part of available salary cap.