maybe these guys should retire instead

[Dwinsgames]

so much has been made of how much Bens play has degraded and while it may be so to some degree , plenty of others are IMO worse ...

using TD/Int ratio are a significant standard to gauge a QB ( turning the ball over loses football games )


maybe these guys should go instead of Ben ? ( Ben 19td 7 int )


David Carr 18 td 10 int

Dak 24 td 10 int

Joe Burrow 25 td 14 int

Matt Ryan 17 td 11 int

Ryan Tannehill 14 td 13 int

Teddy Bridgewater 18 td 7 int

Jimmy G 17 td 8 int

Heinicke 19td 12 int

Lamar Jackson 16 td 13 int

Hurts 13 td 8 int

Kyler Murray 19td 9 int

Mayfield 13td 7 int

Goff 14 td 8 int

Mac Jones 16td 8 int

Danny Dimes 10td 7 int

zach wilson 6 td 11 int

Fields 6td 10 int

Tua 12 td 6 int

Tyrod Taylor 5td 5int

cam newton 3td 3int

trevor lawrence 9td 14 int


so of 32 starting QBs most of the league fairs worse in TD./Int ratio and old man Ben is playing behind one of the worst O-Lines in all of football and without his most trusted WR....

I'm not saying , I'm just saying ...........

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

But where is the "winning is a QB statistic" crowd?

I'm just sayin......

[Dwinsgames]

But where is the "winning is a QB statistic" crowd?

I'm just sayin......


Jeff George ......

Archie Manning ........

great QBs that played on shit teams .....

this steelers team is NOT good .... worst def we have fielded in multiple categories in several decades ....

[DesertSteel]

Jeff George ......

Archie Manning ........

great QBs that played on shit teams .....

this steelers team is NOT good .... worst def we have fielded in multiple categories in several decades ....
Jeff George a great QB? Lol

- - - Updated - - -

Hard to believe that LJ was being discussed for MVP just 2-3 weeks ago. Browns and Ravens are far from set at QB.

[Mojouw]

Arm Punts FOREVER!!

[Fire Goodell]

cam newton should retire

[pczach]

Arm Punts FOREVER!!


Remember, they're only punts if defenders catch them. :sofunny:

[Mojouw]

Remember, they're only punts if defenders catch them. :sofunny:

I did hear that there is speculation that the Steelers have replaced their JUGGS machine with a modified version of these to better simulate Ben's throws:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/M224_mortar_firing.jpg

[Dwinsgames]

Jeff George a great QB? Lol

- - - Updated - - -

Hard to believe that LJ was being discussed for MVP just 2-3 weeks ago. Browns and Ravens are far from set at QB.


I am a firm believer that it takes more than a few guys to create a Legend .......

Jeff George had one of the better arms to ever play the game , he also was saddled with teams that didn't have what it takes to create a legacy

arm talent can not be denied



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGltcIgaubc&ab_channel=OfficialJaguarGator 9

[Fire Goodell]

I am a firm believer that it takes more than a few guys to create a Legend .......

Jeff George had one of the better arms to ever play the game , he also was saddled with teams that didn't have what it takes to create a legacy

arm talent can not be denied



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGltcIgaubc&ab_channel=OfficialJaguarGator 9

His level of talent was undeniable, he had one of the strongest arms the NFL has seen. Not the smartest QB as far as football IQ goes, if he was a film junkie like Peyton Manning he could've been an all-time great. IMO he was one of those QB's who got by on his talent alone. However that level of talent was great enough to keep him in the league for a long time

also another knock on george was he had an attitude problem. I watched a lot of his games in ATL since at the time I was living in georgia and they played all the falcons games on TV. this guy would regularly have meltdowns and arguments with the coaches, and generally it didn't take long before his teammates turned against him also

[cubanstogie]

I am a firm believer that it takes more than a few guys to create a Legend .......

Jeff George had one of the better arms to ever play the game , he also was saddled with teams that didn't have what it takes to create a legacy

arm talent can not be denied



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGltcIgaubc&ab_channel=OfficialJaguarGator 9
no doubt he had a cannon and threw a pretty spiral. I remember reading an article in magazine or newspaper from one of his coaches saying he was uncoachable. The guy wouldn’t listen and thought he could get by on talent alone. He pretty much just got by IMO.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree David Carr should retire, from analyzing that is.

[Fire Goodell]

no doubt he had a cannon and threw a pretty spiral. I remember reading an article in magazine or newspaper from one of his coaches saying he was uncoachable. The guy wouldn’t listen and thought he could get by on talent alone. He pretty much just got by IMO.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree David Carr should retire, from analyzing that is.

Yep the guy had a major attitude problem. While he did make a good career off his talent alone, he failed to live up to his potential. He had what it took physically to be an all-time great, instead he was just a 'pretty good' player who was prone to having meltdowns on the sideline when the games got tough. One of my friends who's a hardcore falcons fan always called him crybaby george :chuckle:

[Mojouw]

Akili Smith
Todd Maranovich
Ryan Leaf
Kordell Stewart

These are just a few names that had staggering physical tools for the QB position. Just like Jeff George. Are they also all time greats?

[Fire Goodell]

Akili Smith
Todd Maranovich
Ryan Leaf
Kordell Stewart

These are just a few names that had staggering physical tools for the QB position. Just like Jeff George. Are they also all time greats?

To be fair, George had a much better career than all of them except Kordell. George was considered a bust only due to the fact he was a 1st overall pick. If he were picked in mid 1st round or later, then he would just be considered another decent QB who never amounted to much. Leaf, Smith and Marijuanavich on the other hand were total busts in the sense that they were out of the league basically before their rookie contract was up.

[cubanstogie]

To be fair, George had a much better career than all of them except Kordell. George was considered a bust only due to the fact he was a 1st overall pick. If he were picked in mid 1st round or later, then he would just be considered another decent QB who never amounted to much. Leaf, Smith and Marijuanavich on the other hand were total busts in the sense that they were out of the league basically before their rookie contract was up.
true, the others didn’t really have a “career”.

[Mojouw]

Sure. But if we are evaluating QB's solely on "arm talent" then guys like Kyle Boller and Kordell Stewart suddenly look really great.

[86WARD]

George went through a period in the late 90s (I think) where he was pretty decent. High 3000s/Low 4000s and a good TD/INT ratio. Wasn’t he over 30TDs at one point or close?

[Mojouw]

George went through a period in the late 90s (I think) where he was pretty decent. High 3000s/Low 4000s and a good TD/INT ratio. Wasn’t he over 30TDs at one point or close?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GeorJe00.htm

Sort of? He did get his TD:INT down to 2:1!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Jeff George ......

Archie Manning ........

great QBs that played on shit teams .....

this steelers team is NOT good .... worst def we have fielded in multiple categories in several decades ....

Sure, but I am just curious how there were so many fans talking about Ben should be getting some MVP buzz after the first 10 games of the Steelers 2020 season. But I honestly think he is playing better this year than last season, when he was coming back from the elbow surgery and still throwing inaccurate passes.

This year he is still a sitting duck in the pocket and doesnt have the mobility that he had 7-8 years ago, but I think he is making more of the tough throws in '21, that he was missing in '20. I do think last seasons schedule was easier than this season and those were a lot of the wins early.

So my point is that Ben is possibly better this year than last year, but the "wins do count as a QB stat" crowd isnt backing him for MVP like last season, nor are they blaming him for the losing record. Seems interesting.

[86WARD]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GeorJe00.htm

Sort of? He did get his TD:INT down to 2:1!

So this wasn’t a terrible stretch. Not great but not terrible either.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211216/def916fd42701cbb6d346f054288c41b.jpg

Funny fact: He has more game winning drives than Steve Young, Bernie Kosar, Len Dawson, Mike Vick, Kurt Warner. Not a go to stat but would’ve guessed otherwise if asked.

[Mojouw]

So this wasn’t a terrible stretch. Not great but not terrible either.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211216/def916fd42701cbb6d346f054288c41b.jpg

Funny fact: He has more game winning drives than Steve Young, Bernie Kosar, Len Dawson, Mike Vick, Kurt Warner. Not a go to stat but would’ve guessed otherwise if asked.

Had no idea. I would've guessed zero based on the times I remembering him just crumbling. Just a crazy physically gifted dude. Shame he wasted so much time. I kinda think that by his late 20's early 30's he finally "got it" and was ready to be a professional football player. But by then, his talent was starting to erode and I think there were some injuries that ate away at him as well.

[DesertSteel]

I am a firm believer that it takes more than a few guys to create a Legend .......

Jeff George had one of the better arms to ever play the game , he also was saddled with teams that didn't have what it takes to create a legacy

arm talent can not be denied



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGltcIgaubc&ab_channel=OfficialJaguarGator 9
You didn’t say great arm. You said great quarterback.

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

So this wasn’t a terrible stretch. Not great but not terrible either.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211216/def916fd42701cbb6d346f054288c41b.jpg

Funny fact: He has more game winning drives than Steve Young, Bernie Kosar, Len Dawson, Mike Vick, Kurt Warner. Not a go to stat but would’ve guessed otherwise if asked.

Did you watch football in the 90s? Many 49ers games were over by halftime. In 94 the 49ers outscored opponents by 209 points and in 1995 by 199 points. Hard to come back in the 4th when you're up by 14. Not surprised at all especially when Young didn't start until he was old... 30.

Ben is probably top 5 in GWD. There are better players to compare to but realistically wins is the better stat. Ben is 5th all-time in wins which is amazing. Only Brady, Favre, Manning and Brees have more.

[86WARD]

No I didn’t watch football in the 90s. I just started watching football about 2 years ago. Mostly Raiders games.

You wouldn’t have guessed that Jeff George had more comeback wins than Steve Young. You’re a liar.

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

... you have to be losing to come back. But Steve Young has more 4QC than George but fewer GWD.

[86WARD]

... you have to be losing to come back. But Steve Young has more 4QC than George but fewer GWD.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/12NlCFUvTokWXe/giphy.gif

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/12NlCFUvTokWXe/giphy.gif

https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c

[silver & black]

David Carr 18 td 10 int

I'm sure you meant Derrek Carr....... and yes, he should retire.

[Dwinsgames]

I'm sure you meant Derrek Carr....... and yes, he should retire.



lmao YES!!! Derrek

[Fire Goodell]

No I didn’t watch football in the 90s. I just started watching football about 2 years ago. Mostly Raiders games.

You wouldn’t have guessed that Jeff George had more comeback wins than Steve Young. You’re a liar.

That SF team under Steve Young was so stacked that they mostly ran through other teams. To have game winning drives you have to be behind and they rarely were lol

[86WARD]

That SF team under Steve Young was so stacked that they mostly ran through other teams. To have game winning drives you have to be behind and they rarely were lol

He also played on a shitty Buccaneers team for two seasons. He played 14-15 years. Had a few seasons where that team wasn’t stacked. No one is guessing Jeff George who pretty much played the complete opposite career of Young is going to have more come from behind wins. In hindsight it’s easy to make that correlation. Asked without knowing, no one is saying George has more than Young. Lol.

[86WARD]

https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c

https://media0.giphy.com/media/jsCnmU8EJDuow/giphy.gif

[Fire Goodell]

He also played on a shitty Buccaneers team for two seasons. He played 14-15 years. Had a few seasons where that team wasn’t stacked. No one is guessing Jeff George who pretty much played the complete opposite career of Young is going to have more come from behind wins. In hindsight it’s easy to make that correlation. Asked without knowing, no one is saying George has more than Young. Lol.

I believe only 1 year as a starter with the Bucs, and 8 years as a starter in SF. He did have a lot of seasons but as the full-time starter, not that long of a career. A good one though, no doubt.

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

People who want Ben to retire think that he is delaying a rebuild. That's it. They see it as a necessary step in finding a young QB to build around and be competitive again. It is a viable argument.

[teegre]

Wait… I’m confused. Are we signing Steve Young? or, is it Jeff George? I just need to know which jersey to order.

[Dwinsgames]

People who want Ben to retire think that he is delaying a rebuild. That's it. They see it as a necessary step in finding a young QB to build around and be competitive again. It is a viable argument.

change for the sake of change is never a good idea ...


you do not pull a perfectly fine working engine out of a car to replace it with another working engine just because the spark plugs are ineffective or the brakes are bad do you ???

The brakes being the defense and the spark plugs being the offensive line ...

this isnt a QB problem as much as it is poor line play and shit defense ...

the offensive play calling isnt helping matters as we can see when No huddle comes into play and Ben is making the line calls and play calls ....

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

change for the sake of change is never a good idea ...


you do not pull a perfectly fine working engine out of a car to replace it with another working engine just because the spark plugs are ineffective or the brakes are bad do you ???

The brakes being the defense and the spark plugs being the offensive line ...

this isnt a QB problem as much as it is poor line play and shit defense ...

the offensive play calling isnt helping matters as we can see when No huddle comes into play and Ben is making the line calls and play calls ....

Yours is a good argument too. I don't think that the post-Ben era will be pretty and I'm not in a big hurry to see it. Bottom line: you play the player that gives you the best chance to win and that QB is still Ben at 40. However...

The last franchise QB drafted after the first round was Prescott back in 2016. The Steelers are going to have to either suck without Ben (perfect time to do that honestly) or trade up in the draft or both.

Personally I'd like to see this be Ben's last season and Rudolph's last season. Start Haskins next year. Draft OL and DL. Sign a FA DB. Go 5-12 with Haskins. Take a QB in 2023. If the Steelers had done this last year they probably could have had Lance, Fields or Jones this past draft.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

change for the sake of change is never a good idea ...


you do not pull a perfectly fine working engine out of a car to replace it with another working engine just because the spark plugs are ineffective or the brakes are bad do you ???

The brakes being the defense and the spark plugs being the offensive line ...

this isnt a QB problem as much as it is poor line play and shit defense ...

the offensive play calling isnt helping matters as we can see when No huddle comes into play and Ben is making the line calls and play calls ....

But what is the goal...to just have a car that can get you to the grocery store?? OK.

Do you put a 20 year old engine, with 200,000 miles on it into that car and try and win the Indy 500 with it??

[cubanstogie]

change for the sake of change is never a good idea ...


you do not pull a perfectly fine working engine out of a car to replace it with another working engine just because the spark plugs are ineffective or the brakes are bad do you ???

The brakes being the defense and the spark plugs being the offensive line ...

this isnt a QB problem as much as it is poor line play and shit defense ...

the offensive play calling isnt helping matters as we can see when No huddle comes into play and Ben is making the line calls and play calls ....
It’s not change for sake of change. Ben is not worth 40 mill let alone 20 mill. You don’t put 10 grand in a car that blue books at 5 grand to use Gonzos car analogy. You cut your losses and realize your vehicle overall was a good investment but time to get new rig. Ben is not problem but not solution either. After this year it’s thank you for your service.

[Dwinsgames]

It’s not change for sake of change. Ben is not worth 40 mill let alone 20 mill. You don’t put 10 grand in a car that blue books at 5 grand to use Gonzos car analogy. You cut your losses and realize your vehicle overall was a good investment but time to get new rig. Ben is not problem but not solution either. After this year it’s thank you for your service.

$10,340,000 .......that is what we will be paying Ben in 2022 to NOT play for us ( dead cap money so not actually paying him that )

who do you think can be brought in here for less that gives you a chance ? the draft has to be used to solidify the lines IMO

[Mojouw]

$10,340,000 .......that is what we will be paying Ben in 2022 to NOT play for us ( dead cap money so not actually paying him that )

who do you think can be brought in here for less that gives you a chance ? the draft has to be used to solidify the lines IMO

The reality is that the 2022 Steelers will likely have one of the worst QB situations in the league.

The hope is that the 2023 Steelers have one of the potentially high caliber QB situations.

[Dwinsgames]

The reality is that the 2022 Steelers will likely have one of the worst QB situations in the league.

The hope is that the 2023 Steelers have one of the potentially high caliber QB situations.


could be ... that said I feel like they make some sort of move they are not a team to sit back and take losing with a grain of salt ... this season is a disappointment I believe they will want to add a bunch of big uglies some for each side of the LOS and take another shot who will be under center is the question ....

[cubanstogie]

$10,340,000 .......that is what we will be paying Ben in 2022 to NOT play for us ( dead cap money so not actually paying him that )

who do you think can be brought in here for less that gives you a chance ? the draft has to be used to solidify the lines IMO
so what will we be paying him to play? Whatever it is it’s not worth it at this stage in his career. A QB with no mobility has no chance with our Oline. Ben hasn’t aged as well as Brady , Rodgers or even Phillip Rivers. He throws a nice 10 yard out or dump off in flat, not much more. I can’t stand watching it anymore. He guarantees a C plus grade but gives no shot at an A.

- - - Updated - - -

Id take Garrapolo in a heartbeat.

- - - Updated - - -

[pczach]

so what will we be paying him to play? Whatever it is it’s not worth it at this stage in his career. A QB with no mobility has no chance with our Oline. Ben hasn’t aged as well as Brady , Rodgers or even Phillip Rivers. He throws a nice 10 yard out or dump off in flat, not much more. I can’t stand watching it anymore. He guarantees a C plus grade but gives no shot at an A.

- - - Updated - - -

Id take Garrapolo in a heartbeat.

- - - Updated - - -



Jimmy G would be a huge, injury-riddled mistake.

He's been playing with some elite talent and a great running game and can't stay healthy or be a difference maker. I can't see spending huge money for that.

[Shoes]

Jimmy G would be a huge, injury-riddled mistake.

He's been playing with some elite talent and a great running game and can't stay healthy or be a difference maker. I can't see spending huge money for that.

Agreed. No way would he have lasted as long as Ben has this season. This is why I think they will be hard pressed to get a Rogers type QB to take the bait and come to Pittsburgh. Ben has taken a pounding since he started and that with without pissing and moaning. Even if they revamp the oline this off season it still won't give a very good vet the warm and fuzzies. It shouldn't be a boring off season for the coaching and FO staff since there may be changes there also.

If they replace Butler, I sure hope they shop beyond the back porch, this hiring from inside (the clan) isn't healthy. At least bring some outside talent in.

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

If they replace Butler, I sure hope they shop beyond the back porch, this hiring from inside (the clan) isn't healthy. At least bring some outside talent in.

100%. Steelers have given up 200 yards rushing three times this season so far. In 13 seasons as DC Lebeau gave up one 200 yard rushing game.

John Mitchell has been the DL coach since forever so I don't think the poor play is position coaching. I think it is personnel (Alualu and Tuitt out) and scheme because Tomlin publicly stated that the Steelers would be in a subpackage overwhelmingly.

[tube517]

100%. Steelers have given up 200 yards rushing three times this season so far. In 13 seasons as DC Lebeau gave up one 200 yard rushing game.

John Mitchell has been the DL coach since forever so I don't think the poor play is position coaching. I think it is personnel (Alualu and Tuitt out) and scheme because Tomlin publicly stated that the Steelers would be in a subpackage overwhelmingly.

Mitchell is no longer the DL coach. Karl Dunbar is the DL coach. Mitchell is still w/the organization but is doing more community related events as "Assistant Head Coach"

[Dwinsgames]

Mitchell is no longer the DL coach. Karl Dunbar is the DL coach. Mitchell is still w/the organization but is doing more community related events as "Assistant Head Coach"

yeah lol Dunbar has been here several years now , guess Google failed him this time

[Hawkman]

yeah lol Dunbar has been here several years now , guess Google failed him this time

Dunbar has been DL coach for 4or 5 years hasn’t he?

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

Mitchell has been asst. HC/DL coach since 2007. He still
works with the DL just not as hands on. The techniques are the same.

[86WARD]

Mitchell has been asst. HC/DL coach since 2007. He still
works with the DL just not as hands on. The techniques are the same.

Wrong again.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211221/fb8047bacbfe5099983a3d868392bce6.jpg

Try www.Google.com in the future.

[Mojouw]

Wrong again.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211221/fb8047bacbfe5099983a3d868392bce6.jpg

Try www.Google.com (http://www.Google.com) in the future.

Buggs has specifically talked about the differences in approach between Dunbar and Mitchell. And, for Buggs, the presence of ONLY Dunbar was a positive since he and Mitchell didn't see eye to eye. At least i think it was Buggs that was talking about all that....I don't totally remember.

But I do know that this dude has his facts all mixed up. Again.

[tube517]

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/06/karl-dunbar-on-working-with-john-mitchell-hes-my-guy/

[Mojouw]

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/06/karl-dunbar-on-working-with-john-mitchell-hes-my-guy/

Dang it. Now that i read that and engage my brain...I think it was McCullers that liked Dunbar better.

[tube517]

Dang it. Now that i read that and engage my brain...I think it was McCullers that liked Dunbar better.

Oh I didn't even see your reply. I was replying to Mr Non Google user

[Mojouw]

Oh I didn't even see your reply. I was replying to Mr Non Google user

I kinda figured...but I wanted to acknowledge my own difficulties with math!! Either that or Buggs is like a 9 year vet or something....

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

Mitchell is no longer the DL coach. Karl Dunbar is the DL coach. Mitchell is still w/the organization but is doing more community related events as "Assistant Head Coach"

Thanks for correcting me. I thought Mitchell was still actively involved in coaching the defense and Dunbar was brought in because of their relationship. I downplayed the promotion of Mitchell who is a legend and the role Dunbar has and I'm embarrassed for that so thank you for correcting me.

[Fire Goodell]

The reality is that the 2022 Steelers will likely have one of the worst QB situations in the league.

The hope is that the 2023 Steelers have one of the potentially high caliber QB situations.

I don't know about that, unless the Steelers are planning to sign Baker Mayfield in 2022 :chuckle:

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

I don't know about that, unless the Steelers are planning to sign Baker Mayfield in 2022 :chuckle:

That's one way to keep him from beating us in the playoffs.

[fansince'76]

So, the Steelers have gone from perennial cellar dwellers for far into the foreseeable future back to a playoff team? Someone really needs to make up their mind.:willy:

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

At no point did I ever claim Tomlin was incapable of losing playoff games. Fortunately the QBs that beat us are usually out of the NFL soon enough and joking aside with Mayfield's acerbic attitude he is probably headed that way if the Browns decide to keep the QB carousel circling haha.

[fansince'76]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE3ehB9jpts

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

:toofunny: