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Vis
10-07-2010, 12:55 PM
Quick constitutional pop quiz: What do you hate? (And by you, I mean you.)

If you answered: homosexuals, Jews, Catholics, the military, the pope, and more or less everyone except Fred Phelps, who founded the Westboro Baptist Church and is thus your dad/uncle/granddad/third cousin, you are probably one of the 30-plus members of the church, which argued at the Supreme Court this morning for the right to vile, hateful protests at the funerals of fallen soldiers. If you answered: intolerance, incivility, people who glom onto the private grief of military families, or the Westboro Baptist Church, you probably sympathize with Albert Snyder, whose efforts to bury his son, Matthew, who died in Iraq in 2006, were marred by members of the Phelps family wielding signs reading "God Hates Fags," "God Hates You," and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers.".....

http://www.slate.com/id/2270167/

Vis
10-07-2010, 12:59 PM
The headline writers are going to say that the justices "struggled" with this case. That may be so, but what they struggled with has very little to do with the law, which rather clearly protects even the most offensive speech about public matters such as war and morality. They are struggling here with the facts, which they hate. Which we all hate. But looking at the parties through hate-colored glasses has never been the best way to think about the First Amendment. In fact, as I understand it, that's why we needed a First Amendment in the first place.

Great point to finish.

BPS3akaWirels3
10-07-2010, 01:31 PM
I am an Independent Baptist and live 30 miles from Albert... I do not support these idiots at this church. We have our beliefs and stand by them but do not make a public mockery like they do at churches and funerals. Their song they sang outside the supreme court yesterday proves they have something wrong with them.

I support Albert and ALL the fallen troops. I do not hate the people, I hate the sin.

I sin everyday and so do these people from this church. God is the only one that can stand and judge.

Vis
10-07-2010, 02:06 PM
I am an Independent Baptist and live 30 miles from Albert... I do not support these idiots at this church. We have our beliefs and stand by them but do not make a public mockery like they do at churches and funerals. Their song they sang outside the supreme court yesterday proves they have something wrong with them.

I support Albert and ALL the fallen troops. I do not hate the people, I hate the sin.

I sin everyday and so do these people from this church. God is the only one that can stand and judge.

But should we bend the First Amendment to stop Phelps?

BPS3akaWirels3
10-07-2010, 02:16 PM
It's called guide lines.

Vis
10-07-2010, 02:18 PM
what is?

BPS3akaWirels3
10-07-2010, 02:58 PM
http://www.ilike.com/artist/Evans+Blue/videos/683357939

I am only saying this and then I am done. You all know my beliefs now but didn't know my beloved dad fought in Nam and has 2 purple hearts and to this day has a piece of that war in him (Yes I mean pieces of a bomb that could not be removed) and has Agent Orange. He is a DAM good father to us three children. I have done him wrong many a time when growing up. Unfortunately I do believe that I did not grow up the way my parents wanted me to and for that I am sorry. As you know he has been fighting/recovering from colon cancer and has been very tuff through all. So that being said " I would die on top of my dad's grave to defend my father, his belief's, our Savor and what he fought for in Nam.

Westboro should shut up and keep it in their house of worship. From me being a Baptist I do not support what they are doing. It's a disgrace to our Lord and Savior and this "God fearing country of ours"


P.S. Don't get me started on the NRA and the right to bare arms... How big is your gun?!! Mines bigger..

Vis
10-07-2010, 03:17 PM
I am only saying this and then I am done. You all know my beliefs now but didn't know my beloved dad fought in Nam and has 2 purple hearts and to this day has a piece of that war in him (Yes I mean pieces of a bomb that could not be removed) and has Agent Orange. He is a DAM good father to us three children. I have done him wrong many a time when growing up. Unfortunately I do believe that I did not grow up the way my parents wanted me to and for that I am sorry. As you know he has been fighting/recovering from colon cancer and has been very tuff through all. So that being said " I would die on top of my dad's grave to defend my father, his belief's, our Savor and what he fought for in Nam.

Westboro should shut up and keep it in their house of worship. From me being a Baptist I do not support what they are doing. It's a disgrace to our Lord and Savior and this "God fearing country of ours"


P.S. Don't get me started on the NRA and the right to bare arms... How big is your gun?!! Mines bigger..

Hating what they say is different than giving the government the power to stop it. We all hate what they are doing. The issue is what to do about it. If the government claims the power to stop Phelp's hateful speech, it can use the same power to stop the speech of the tea parties and the NRA, and you, and me.

SCSTILLER
10-07-2010, 03:33 PM
Being a member of the military, having flown home the remains of the fallen for burial, and having flown back the wounded for treatments in numerous hospitals, I hate these bastards. And yes, hate is the word I use when talking about them. I do have to say that they only make themselves look like idiots, and God will judge them fairly when they all get up there. Now, whether or not we should limit their speech, to this I will say no. As much as I do not like their speech, where they do it, and the forum they do it at, they still have the freedom of speech protected under the constitution that myself and thousands before and with me have sworn to defend. If we start restricting speech in specific cases, sooner than later the government will have all speech that they don't like restricted. I DO NOT want to live in a United States of America that takes away my freedom of speech. These people are despicable, but thank the lord for the Patriot Riders who do everything in their power to shield these bastards from the grieving families and friends.

BPS3akaWirels3
10-07-2010, 03:37 PM
Being a member of the military, having flown home the remains of the fallen for burial, and having flown back the wounded for treatments in numerous hospitals, I hate these bastards. And yes, hate is the word I use when talking about them. I do have to say that they only make themselves look like idiots, and God will judge them fairly when they all get up there. Now, whether or not we should limit their speech, to this I will say no. As much as I do not like their speech, where they do it, and the forum they do it at, they still have the freedom of speech protected under the constitution that myself and thousands before and with me have sworn to defend. If we start restricting speech in specific cases, sooner than later the government will have all speech that they don't like restricted. I DO NOT want to live in a United States of America that takes away my freedom of speech. These people are despicable, but thank the lord for the Patriot Riders who do everything in their power to shield these bastards from the grieving families and friends.

Thank you for all you have done SCStiller...

Mach1
10-07-2010, 04:59 PM
But should we bend the First Amendment to stop Phelps?

Unfortunately No.

It's that free speech thing.

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 05:52 PM
There's no such thing as absolute freedom. Even freedom of speech has limitations.
You're free to say whatever you want, but there are limitations to when and where you can say it.

I can stand in my living room and yell "fire" all I want. But I can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater.
Walk into an airport and yell, "I've got a bomb!" Then after you're detained, argue freedom of speech. See how far that gets ya ...

Yes, those people have a right to protest and say whatever they want. But they DON'T have a right to intentionally inflict emotional distress on grieving families. And that's exactly what those protests are doing. So I say no. The protests are NOT constitutionally protected free speech.

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 06:33 PM
There's no such thing as absolute freedom. Even freedom of speech has limitations.
You're free to say whatever you want, but there are limitations to when and where you can say it.

I can stand in my living room and yell "fire" all I want. But I can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater.
Walk into an airport and yell, "I've got a bomb!" Then after you're detained, argue freedom of speech. See how far that gets ya ...

Yes, those people have a right to protest and say whatever they want. But they DON'T have a right to intentionally inflict emotional distress on grieving families. And that's exactly what those protests are doing. So I say no. The protests are NOT constitutionally protected free speech.


That IS one hell of a point Wally! I never thought of it that way. I hate these despicable douchebags and all they stand for. They may have the right to free speech, but maybe they also have the right to a Grade-A, first rate, righteous kick in the ass! I surely didn't see anything... did you? :noidea:

SCSTILLER
10-07-2010, 07:43 PM
That IS one hell of a point Wally! I never thought of it that way. I hate these despicable douchebags and all they stand for. They may have the right to free speech, but maybe they also have the right to a Grade-A, first rate, righteous kick in the ass! I surely didn't see anything... did you? :noidea:

See what?

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 07:52 PM
See what?

I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VoTMOdI9adk/TB4mrVbHCNI/AAAAAAAAH6Q/ZpHURwykMx8/s1600/see+hear+speak+no+evil.jpg

7SteelGal43
10-07-2010, 08:06 PM
When the pastor of Westboro passes on, I wouldn't be surprised if 20,000 or more line the streets of the funeral procession with the most hateful, disrespectful, hurtful signs for his family and congregation to have to endure.

Godfather
10-07-2010, 08:40 PM
Yes, those people have a right to protest and say whatever they want. But they DON'T have a right to intentionally inflict emotional distress on grieving families. And that's exactly what those protests are doing. So I say no. The protests are NOT constitutionally protected free speech.

I agree 100%. The issue here is not the content of their message. The issue is that grieving families have the right to bury their loved ones in peace.

If the content of the message were different (such as Code Pink saying good riddance to the baby killer), there would still be a problem. But if the venue were changed (letter to the editor, protests at military recruitment centers, going on TV or radio and saying dead soldiers are God's punishment on us for tolerating gays, etc.) it would clearly be protected speech.

So there is no First Amendment issue with stopping them...we're not discriminating against their message or stopping them from expressing their views. We're simply protecting the rights of the military families.

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 08:55 PM
I agree 100%. The issue here is not the content of their message. The issue is that grieving families have the right to bury their loved ones in peace.

If the content of the message were different (such as Code Pink saying good riddance to the baby killer), there would still be a problem. But if the venue were changed (letter to the editor, protests at military recruitment centers, going on TV or radio and saying dead soldiers are God's punishment on us for tolerating gays, etc.) it would clearly be protected speech.

So there is no First Amendment issue with stopping them...we're not discriminating against their message or stopping them from expressing their views. We're simply protecting the rights of the military families.

Excellent post, Godfather. It's not just a free speech issue. It's a FREEDOM issue. And the grieving families have rights, too.

Here's how freedom works: My right to freedom stops where your right to freedom starts.
I have a right to stand there and throw punches in the air. But I don't have a right to throw those punches if you're standing next to me and I punch you in the face.

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 09:19 PM
When the pastor of Westboro passes on, I wouldn't be surprised if 20,000 or more line the streets of the funeral procession with the most hateful, disrespectful, hurtful signs for his family and congregation to have to endure.

Karma, baby, karma! :wink02:

Devilsdancefloor
10-07-2010, 09:29 PM
As muh as i hate these douchebags I and those being buried they protest have protected their right to assemble and to have their free speech. I do believe there is a special place in hell waiting for all of them. I also know they wil protest a funeral and someone will take it out of their hid one of these days. Yes they wil spend time in jail, but im sure they will think of it as time well spent.

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 09:32 PM
As muh as i hate these douchebags I and those being buried they protest have protected their right to assemble and to have their free speech. I do believe there is a special place in hell waiting for all of them. I also know they wil protest a funeral and someone will take it out of their hid one of these days. Yes they wil spend time in jail, but im sure they will think of it as time well spent.

I am stunned that none of these asshats has been beaten to death with one of their own signs yet. :huh:

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 09:37 PM
As muh as i hate these douchebags I and those being buried they protest have protected their right to assemble and to have their free speech.

Therein lies the gray area. Freedom of speech isn't the only freedom we have. The families trying to bury their loved ones have rights and freedoms, too. :scratchchin:

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 09:39 PM
I am stunned that none of these asshats has been beaten to death with one of their own signs yet. :huh:

Have you been watching rasslin' again? http://images.zaazu.com/img/hulkhogan-hulk-hogan-hulk-halloween-smiley-emoticon-000316-large.gif

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 09:43 PM
Have you been watching rasslin' again? http://images.zaazu.com/img/hulkhogan-hulk-hogan-hulk-halloween-smiley-emoticon-000316-large.gif

C'mon, Wally! You were just watching The Nature Boy wrestle Cactus Jack just a few minutes ago right along with me! Don't act like you're cool now!

Devilsdancefloor
10-07-2010, 09:49 PM
I am stunned that none of these asshats has been beaten to death with one of their own signs yet. :huh:

Im surprised someone has not organized a protest against this asshats. id stand 2 feet in front of them holding up my signs toward them and everytime they moved i would do the same i wouldnt say a word to them just face them in be close enough to make them very uncomfortable

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 09:53 PM
Im surprised someone has not organized a protest against this asshats. id stand 2 feet in front of them holding up my signs toward them and everytime they moved i would do the same i wouldnt say a word to them just face them in be close enough to make them very uncomfortable

Need any help, DDF? :bounce:

Devilsdancefloor
10-07-2010, 09:56 PM
i am sure i could hundreds more to just stand and stare

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 10:01 PM
i am sure i could hundreds more to just stand and stare

Probably THOUSANDS! :yup:

Vis
10-07-2010, 10:06 PM
But how is infliction of emotional distress a standard that the law can use? Fire in a theater isn't about feelings, it's about danger. Isn't emotional distress subjective? Does the emotional distress have to be proved? Must medical records be produced showing that it actually existed? Some people let things slide better than others. Is freedom of speech dependent on how sensitive the hearer is?

BPS3akaWirels3
10-07-2010, 10:10 PM
But how is infliction of emotional distress a standard that the law can use? Fire in a theater isn't about feelings, it's about danger. Isn't emotional distress subjective? Does the emotional distress have to be proved? Must medical records be produced showing that it actually existed? Some people let things slide better than others. Is freedom of speech dependent on how sensitive the hearer is?

Vis, calm down brother... relax... You will live a longer life if you don't sweat the stuff you can't control..

BPS3akaWirels3
10-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Probably THOUSANDS! :yup:

What's crazy is they were going to picket my old church in York last year but never showed up... Now why would you stand out in front of another Baptist Church and protest?? no sense..

Vis
10-07-2010, 10:13 PM
Vis, calm down brother... relax... You will live a longer life if you don't sweat the stuff you can't control..

If you read the article you would see that these are the types of questions the court asked. This is a legal discussion. I'm trying to take the emotion out.

Vis
10-07-2010, 10:13 PM
What's crazy is they were going to picket my old church in York last year but never showed up... Now why would you stand out in front of another Baptist Church and protest?? no sense..
publicity

Just George
10-07-2010, 10:15 PM
Hello everyone hope you don't mind my 2 cents. I believe these people are severely misguided, uniformed about scriptual truth, hateful ann just plain wrong. What they do perpetuates the worst kind of evil in mens souls, HOWEVER I believe the Supreme Court will uphold their right to this terrible form of speech because when we start to limit free speech even when it is horrible and right thinking people are offended and hate what the westboro idiots (I can't call it a church)are doing, because that will lead to the steady erosion of the right for all of us.

Its why the supreme court gave those darn "Illinois Nazis" the right to march in Skokie in the late 70's. National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie, 432 U.S. 43 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_citation) (1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977))

and as far as counter demanonstraters. Go look up the Patriot Guard Riders. These guys ROCK

The Patriot Guard Riders attend the funerals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funerals) of members of the United States Armed Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces) at the invitation of the deceased’s family.The group was initially formed to shelter and protect the funerals from protesters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protester) from the Westboro Baptist Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church), who claim that the deaths of American troops in Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) and Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan) are divine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinity) retribution for American tolerance of homosexuality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality). The Patriot Guard positions itself to physically shield the mourners from the presence of the Westboro protesters by blocking the protesters from view with their motorcade, or by having members hold American flags. The group also drowns out the protesters' chants by singing patriotic songs or by revving motorcycle engines. Although initially founded by motorcyclists, the organization is open to anyone, regardless of political affiliation, veteran status, or whether they ride or not. The only prerequisite is "a deep respect for those who serve our country; military, firefighters, or law enforcement". The Patriot Guard was established in Mulvane, Kansas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulvane,_Kansas) at American Legion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legion) Post 136 in 2005. The group's mission quickly expanded to include the funerals of law enforcement officers, fire department personnel, all first responders, and any active duty member or veteran of the U.S. Armed Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Armed_Forces) from all previous wars and conflicts and is now largely focused on recognizing and honoring the sacrifices of fallen servicemembers as well as their families and loved ones. As of August 28, 2010, the group reported over 201,000 members. In addition to their attendance at funerals, the group also greets troops returning from overseas at welcome home celebrations, deployment ceremonies, and perform volunteer work for veteran's organizations such as Veterans Homes. The group also assists families in financial difficulties with travel and housing arrangements, and also visits military hospitals to encourage and honor wounded servicemembers of the United States Armed Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces).

Sorry my first post is so long, but damn this topic has got me riled up...

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 10:16 PM
But how is infliction of emotional distress a standard that the law can use? Fire in a theater isn't about feelings, it's about danger. Isn't emotional distress subjective? Does the emotional distress have to be proved? Must medical records be produced showing that it actually existed? Some people let things slide better than others. Is freedom of speech dependent on how sensitive the hearer is?

Of course it does. That's why we have courts. Freedom of speech is a First Amendment right, but even THAT'S subjective. Look at how many freedom of speech cases work their way up to the Supreme Court.

BPS3akaWirels3
10-07-2010, 10:17 PM
publicity

Not from the 800 plus in my old congregation... They wouldn't even look out the window...

Vis
10-07-2010, 10:18 PM
Of course it does. That's why we have courts. Freedom of speech is a First Amendment right, but even THAT'S subjective. Look at how many freedom of speech cases work their way up to the Supreme Court.

So if I want to stop what you're saying I just need to find someone who will cry about it and put them in the audience

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 10:19 PM
Is freedom of speech dependent on how sensitive the hearer is?

Here's what I find absolutely hilarious about the freedom of speech argument. It's greatest defender is liberals ... the same people who brought us political correctness. That's funny ... you can't make that shit up.

Vis
10-07-2010, 10:20 PM
Not from the 800 plus in my old congregation... They wouldn't even look out the window...

Did it happen? They want cameras there.

Vis
10-07-2010, 10:21 PM
Here's what I find absolutely hilarious about the freedom of speech argument. It's greatest defender is liberals ... the same people who brought us political correctness. That's funny ... you can't make that shit up.

It's greatest defenders are constitutional lawyers

Just George
10-07-2010, 10:22 PM
Mr. Snyder, the father, was awarded $10 million that was Knocked down to $5 million for intentional emotional distress and health problems, His diabetes got worse after he saw the protest on the news after his son's funeral. So he did prove initially in court that he was negatively affected by this. He did not see these idiots, they were at the dictated distance in a "protest site". They always make sure to get permits and go where they are told. And the Chief idiots daughter is a lawyer who defends these morons in court.

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 10:24 PM
So if I want to stop what you're saying I just need to find someone who will cry about it and put them in the audience

Exactly!! That's liberalism 101. They teach it at all the best universities.

Vis
10-07-2010, 10:24 PM
Mr. Snyder, the father, was awarded $10 million that was Knocked down to $5 million for intentional emotional distress and health problems, His diabetes got worse after he saw the protest on the news after his son's funeral. So he did prove initially in court that he was negatively affected by this. He did not see these idiots, they were at the dictated distance in a "protest site". They always make sure to get permits and go where they are told. And the Chief idiots daughter is a lawyer who defends these morons in court.

So there are some of the problems. They followed the rules. They were as far away as they were told to be. This case is about the content, about if they can say what they said.

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 10:25 PM
It's greatest defenders are constitutional lawyers

Lawyers and judges have raped the Constitution.

Vis
10-07-2010, 10:26 PM
Exactly!! That's liberalism 101. They teach it at all the best universities.

That was your plan - subjective sensitivity. Great legal standard. Are you liberal?

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 10:27 PM
So there are some of the problems. They followed the rules. They were as far away as they were told to be. This case is about the content, about if they can say what they said.

That's where you're misguided. It's NOT about content. They can say whatever they want to say. But they can't infringe on other people's rights and freedoms.

Vis
10-07-2010, 10:29 PM
That's where you're misguided. It's NOT about content. They can say whatever they want to say. But they can't infringe on other people's rights and freedoms.

how did they do that if they followed the laws about location? or are you making this up post by post?

Devilsdancefloor
10-07-2010, 10:29 PM
It's greatest defenders are constitutional lawyers

you are a good lawyer, maybe you should run for office your spinning and dodging is fabulous

Vis
10-07-2010, 10:31 PM
What did Phelps do wrong other than the hateful content of what he says?

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 10:35 PM
how did they do that if they followed the laws about location? or are you making this up post by post?

I plead ignorant. What are the laws on location. Enlighten me.

Vis
10-07-2010, 10:38 PM
I plead ignorant. What are the laws on location. Enlighten me.

in the article

Just George
10-07-2010, 10:40 PM
A number of states have passed ordinances dictating where prostest can happen. have to stay so many hundreds of feet away, stay in a certain limited area etc. a few of these have been overturned in court or are under appeal.

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 10:41 PM
in the article

What article? I'm not asking for someone's opinion ... I'm asking for yours. Or are you just making this up post by post?

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 10:41 PM
Just because it's legal, damn sure doesn't make it "right".

Just George
10-07-2010, 10:42 PM
The other thing you should read are the Amicus briefs (friend of the court briefs) submitted on this case

one quick link to some of the briefs. http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/akron_law_cafe/2010/09/awards-for-amicus-briefs-in-snyder-v-phelps/

Just George
10-07-2010, 10:44 PM
Just because it's legal, damn sure doesn't make it "right".

Amen

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 10:44 PM
The other thing you should read are the Amicus briefs

I saw the Pelican Brief with Denzel Washington. Is it anything like that? :thumbsup:

Just George
10-07-2010, 10:47 PM
What article? I'm not asking for someone's opinion ...

one article

But Stephen R. McAllister, Kansas' solicitor general who wrote the amicus brief in favor of Snyder on behalf of 48 states' attorneys general, said the court could find for Snyder and still preserve larger speech freedoms by confining its ruling to funerals, events he claims are clearly sacred because they "cut across cultural boundaries from time immemorial."
McAllister pointed to the court's 1988 Frisby v. Schultz decision that kept abortion protesters from demonstrating outside an abortion doctor's home but preserved their right to protest at abortion clinics. He said the court could limit "the where and the when" of Westboro's speech without trampling on its rights.


Indianapolis star http://www.indystar.com/article/20101003/LOCAL/10030350/0/SPORTS02/Family-watches-free-speech-case-over-funeral-protesters?odyssey=mod%7Clateststories

Just George
10-07-2010, 10:48 PM
I saw the Pelican Brief with Denzel Washington. Is it anything like that?
hehe

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 10:52 PM
Hell, if I had known Vis was bringing a legal scholar with him here tonight, I would have kept my consumption to under a 12 pack. I'm in no condition to drive, much less read legal briefs.

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 10:55 PM
Hell, if I had known Vis was bringing a legal scholar with him here tonight, I would have kept my consumption to under a 12 pack. I'm in no condition to drive, much less read legal briefs.

Aw shucks! I'm no legal scholar. :heh:

Only a 12 pack? Just like I said... lightweight. :no:

Just George
10-07-2010, 10:58 PM
Hell, if I had known Vis was bringing a legal scholar with him here tonight, I would have kept my consumption to under a 12 pack. I'm in no condition to drive, much less read legal briefs.

Sorry don't mean to be so heavy, hope you can all forgive me. This topic just gets me so upset. I love the Lord, I love this Country and our Constitution and I absolutely HATE what these people do I just cant get away from that old saying "I disagree with what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it"
and actually Devilsdancefloor "brought me" blame him.

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 11:00 PM
actually Devilsdancefloor "brought me" blame him.



DAMN YOU, CURLY JOE!

Devilsdancefloor
10-07-2010, 11:07 PM
DAMN YOU, CURLY JOE!

Abbott damn you! (why am i damned and why am i damning you)

Just George
10-07-2010, 11:09 PM
Abbott damn you! (why am i damned and why am i damning you)

ME!!!

Devilsdancefloor
10-07-2010, 11:12 PM
yeah the blight on the board you haven't told'em yet have you....

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 11:13 PM
I just cant get away from that old saying "I disagree with what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it".

That reminds me of another quote: "Liberals will fight to their death for your right to agree with them." :chuckle:

It's all good, George. I argue on emotions, common sense, and maybe a few new articles. This debate has gone beyond my level of debatedness. :drink:

Devilsdancefloor
10-07-2010, 11:14 PM
well this thread has been hijacked back to topic.. what where we discussing

Just George
10-07-2010, 11:18 PM
yeah the blight on the board you haven't told'em yet have you....

ummm no...but I did find a cute steelers cheerleader for my avatar...ummm go Colts....

BPS3akaWirels3
10-07-2010, 11:21 PM
ummm no...but I did find a cute steelers cheerleader for my avatar...ummm go Colts....

Do what!!! So what are you saying George?? Go Colts??

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 11:21 PM
But for the record ... I'm still right. :chuckle:

Just George
10-07-2010, 11:21 PM
That reminds me of another quote: "Liberals will fight to their death for your right to agree with them." :chuckle:

It's all good, George. I argue on emotions, common sense, and maybe a few new articles. This debate has gone beyond my level of debatedness. :drink:

no worries I usually just say stupid things and make up facts to back my point of view, but this topic has stuck with me.

And in my youth I was a liberal (born in Vermont we had a socialist congress person) then I grew up, got a job and a family and realized to be a liberal I needed to be very young and naive or very very rich..

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 11:22 PM
...ummm go Colts....

:puke: :banned:

BPS3akaWirels3
10-07-2010, 11:22 PM
well this thread has been hijacked back to topic.. what where we discussing

I know why you up still.. Watching Versus??

Just George
10-07-2010, 11:23 PM
Do what!!! So what are you saying George?? Go Colts??


I know sorry, but DDF told me I would not get too raped over here and it was a great place to hang out. I will say this If its not the Colts then I would prefer to see the Steelers. AND congrats on the great play with out Ben. going fourth string in quarterbacks and still winning the Defense ROCKS....

BPS3akaWirels3
10-07-2010, 11:25 PM
I know sorry, but DDF told me I would not get too raped over here and it was a great place to hang out. I will say this If its not the Colts then I would prefer to see the Steelers. AND congrats on the great play with out Ben. going fourth string in quarterbacks and still winning the Defense ROCKS....

So now you want to http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:lYEZ7avGa-hNQM:http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa247/tgdennis1971/Forum%20Stuff/Butt_Kiss.jpg&t=1

I think you might be our first Colt's fan on here... Huh.. If your a Colts fan then please change you avator to show that.. Don't be afraid... We might just accept you.. ;)

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 11:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu5rSOppBjc

Just George
10-07-2010, 11:30 PM
So now you want to http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:lYEZ7avGa-hNQM:http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa247/tgdennis1971/Forum%20Stuff/Butt_Kiss.jpg&t=1

lol no I just don't piss on other peoples boards...I am just to well-mannered. and after all these years hanging with DDF and having him make me watch video after video after video I warmed up to you all. Seriously I have enjoyed the Steelers for years. I will say this your orginzation does what it does well, you got the rings to prove it, ranked in defense for I don't know how many years, Ben is a rock solid QB who will be one of the greats, BUT I still like the Colts better so there :)

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 11:31 PM
no worries I usually just say stupid things and make up facts to back my point of view, but this topic has stuck with me.

And in my youth I was a liberal (born in Vermont we had a socialist congress person) then I grew up, got a job and a family and realized to be a liberal I needed to be very young and naive or very very rich..

I was a liberal up until my junior year of college. Then I realized the hypocrisy of it all. All the liberal professors I became friends with all lived in fancy homes and drove fancy cars. While they preached about the evils of the rich and helping out the poor, they weren't willing to sacrifice their own personal riches for the cause. :ranger:

Wallace108
10-07-2010, 11:35 PM
What the hell, guys? This is the Soapbox, not the Halfway House! http://smiliesftw.com/x/iononomoon.gif

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 11:40 PM
What the hell, guys? This is the Soapbox, not the Halfway House! http://smiliesftw.com/x/iononomoon.gif

Back in the basement with you! :buttkick:

Just George
10-07-2010, 11:42 PM
Buddha LOL now that is funny....but still we got the MVP um how many years, Also since 1998, the team has become the first in league history to win 12 games or more in five consecutive seasons—extending this record to seven after the 2009 season....and well I know we only won 1 superbowl in Indy and this year is rocky, but after so many years of not loosing until late in the season it just seems weird to be 2-2...but a lot of teams would like to be 2-2 right now. also our defense that rocked last year, with the same starters is struggling, but we will pull it together just watch. :)

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 11:52 PM
Buddha LOL now that is funny....but still we got the MVP um how many years, Also since 1998, the team has become the first in league history to win 12 games or more in five consecutive seasons—extending this record to seven after the 2009 season....and well I know we only won 1 superbowl in Indy and this year is rocky, but after so many years of not loosing until late in the season it just seems weird to be 2-2...but a lot of teams would like to be 2-2 right now. also our defense that rocked last year, with the same starters is struggling, but we will pull it together just watch. :)

Just hazing the new guy! DDF should have warned you about me... blame him. :heh:

I was a Baltimore Colts fan as a kid and started hating them when they left, so I had to bust your balls a bit. Peyton is the best quarterback in the league though (just behind Ben! :boink:).

Welcome to the forum and enjoy! :drink:

Just George
10-07-2010, 11:55 PM
Just hazing the new guy! DDF should have warned you about me... blame him. :heh:

I was a Baltimore Colts fan as a kid and started hating them when they left, so I had to bust your balls a bit. Peyton is the best quarterback in the league though (just behind Ben! :boink:).

Welcome to the forum and enjoy! :drink:

Thanks I am pretty thick skinned and again I have been watching you all through DDF for a while, since before SU was even a sparkle in your eyes. I am glad to be here and will cheer loudly for you all MOST of the time...

BuddhaBus
10-07-2010, 11:57 PM
Thanks I am pretty thick skinned and again I have been watching you all through DDF for a while, since before SU was even a sparkle in your eyes. I am glad to be here and will cheer loudly for you all MOST of the time...

It's all good! If I can be friends with certain Ravens and Browns fans on this forum, I can be friends with ANYONE. :lol:

Wallace108
10-08-2010, 12:00 AM
Thanks I am pretty thick skinned and again I have been watching you all through DDF for a while

I feel violated. :uhoh:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2391/2201611238_748d97f43a.jpg

Hindes204
10-08-2010, 12:09 AM
ummmmmm.......yet another thread ruined by the basement crew. Go back to your hole

X-Terminator
10-08-2010, 12:13 AM
First of all, welcome Just George! :drink: I had an inkling that you might be a Colts fan after seeing your SN - Jeff George was the first thing that came to mind. Hey, I'm perceptive like that. :wink02: You will find that we are very accommodating to non-Steelers fans - we Admins pride ourselves on that. There are fans of the Ravens, Bengals, Browns, Patriots and Raiders here, and all of them are regular contributors. So if you want to fly a Colts avatar, hey, have at it! :thumbsup:

Second of all...any further hijacking of this thread will get the perps 50 lashes with a wet noodle or be forced to see a picture of Marsha Brady naked. :puke: :heh:

BuddhaBus
10-08-2010, 12:20 AM
Second of all...any further hijacking of this thread will get the perps 50 lashes with a wet noodle or be forced to see a picture of Marsha Brady naked. :puke: :heh:

I'm out. :bolt:

Wallace108
10-08-2010, 12:33 AM
any further hijacking of this thread will get the perps 50 lashes with a wet noodle or be forced to see a picture of Marsha Brady naked. :puke: :heh:

I already said I was right ... what more is there to debate? :noidea:
:chuckle:

Wallace108
10-08-2010, 07:10 AM
What article? I'm not asking for someone's opinion ... I'm asking for yours. Or are you just making this up post by post?

Hmmm ...

Vis, in reading this thread in a clearer state of mind, I see that I missed a couple of posts, which led to some confusion on my part regarding the "article" and "location" portion of the debate. The posts were coming fast and furious. I apologize for the misunderstanding on my part. I enjoy debating with you, bro. :drink:

LLT
10-09-2010, 09:20 AM
Simple solution.

They retain the right to free speech by granting them the ability to protest. However...They CAN be told to remain "X" number of feet away from funerals or be given a specific location in which they can protest. Municipailities do this all the time to keep two groups of opposing protesters away from each other or simply to keep protests within the confines of certain areas for civic reasons (traffic..public safety....etc)
Failure to abide by the dictates of the municipality would be grounds for a charge of Disorderly Conduct.

In essence...create free speech zones in areas of military funerals. Free speech zones are completely legal and are based on U.S. court decisions that state the government may "regulate the time, place, and manner—but not content—of expression."



As far as I am concerned...every time this church "protests", they need to be regulated to a free speech zone between the dog pound and the city dump.

BuddhaBus
10-09-2010, 09:24 AM
Simple solution.

They retain the right to free speech by granting them the ability to protest. However...They CAN be told to remain "X" number of feet away from funerals or be given a specific location in which they can protest Municipailities do this all the time to keep two groups of opposing protesters away from each other or simply to keep protests within the confines of certain areas for civic reasons (traffic..public safety....etc)
Failure to abide by the dictates of the municipality would be grounds for a charge of Disorderly Conduct.

In essence...create free speech zones in areas of military funerals. Free speech zones are completely legal and are based on U.S. court decisions that state the government may "regulate the time, place, and manner—but not content—of expression."



As far as I am concerned...every time this church "protests", they need to be regulated to a free speech zone between the dog pound and the city dump.

How about in the sewer with the rest of the turds? :noidea:

Wallace108
10-09-2010, 11:02 AM
Simple solution.

They retain the right to free speech by granting them the ability to protest. However...They CAN be told to remain "X" number of feet away from funerals or be given a specific location in which they can protest Municipailities do this all the time to keep two groups of opposing protesters away from each other or simply to keep protests within the confines of certain areas for civic reasons (traffic..public safety....etc)
Failure to abide by the dictates of the municipality would be grounds for a charge of Disorderly Conduct.

In essence...create free speech zones in areas of military funerals. Free speech zones are completely legal and are based on U.S. court decisions that state the government may "regulate the time, place, and manner—but not content—of expression."



As far as I am concerned...every time this church "protests", they need to be regulated to a free speech zone between the dog pound and the city dump.

I agree, LLT. That's a perfect solution, as long as the families don't have to see them or hear them. You have a right to free speech, but I have a right to not have to listen to it.

The protesters have a right to protest and say whatever they want to say. But the families also have a right to bury their loved ones with respect. So whose rights are being infringed upon here?

LLT
10-09-2010, 12:15 PM
I agree, LLT. That's a perfect solution, as long as the families don't have to see them or hear them. You have a right to free speech, but I have a right to not have to listen to it.

The protesters have a right to protest and say whatever they want to say. But the families also have a right to bury their loved ones with respect. So whose rights are being infringed upon here?

The church does not have a right to determine their audience....they can be put on the other side of town and protest to their ignorant hearts content.

BuddhaBus
10-09-2010, 12:56 PM
The church does not have a right to determine their audience....they can be put on the other side of town and protest to their ignorant hearts content.

And that would mean no one's rights would be infringed upon. So where's the problem? If I'm right about this, the KKK doesn't have the right to have their rallies wherever they please. I think they have to have permits and are restricted to certain areas by local government/law enforcement. Maybe the problem is that they are still allowed too close to the funerals. Common sense says the law should be re-written to take the families' rights into stronger consideration. There is no defending their position in my opinion. It seems that only one side's rights are being defended here. It's insanity I tell you.

LLT
10-09-2010, 01:21 PM
And that would mean no one's rights would be infringed upon. So where's the problem? If I'm right about this, the KKK doesn't have the right to have their rallies wherever they please. I think they have to have permits and are restricted to certain areas by local government/law enforcement. Maybe the problem is that they are still allowed too close to the funerals. Common sense says the law should be re-written to take the families' rights into stronger consideration. There is no defending their position in my opinion. It seems that only one side's rights are being defended here. It's insanity I tell you.

The problem, as I see it, is that there has been emotional damage already done to the relatives of soldiers that gave their lives for this country. Understandably they are looking at this lawsuit from an emotional viewpoint and from a point of compensation through a change in the law.

The flip side of this is that this ignorant bunch of protesting lugnuts, are thinly veiling their hate and lack of biblical knowledge behind their "rights"....also looking at this from an emotional point of view....hoping to gain some "credibility" by having their ignorant stance backed by law.

You are correct in that the municipalities dropped the ball on this one. At least in Illinois...these nutsacks would have been sent to the courthouse square...or been allowed at the cemetary 2 hours after the funeral.

BuddhaBus
10-09-2010, 01:31 PM
You are correct in that the municipalities dropped the ball on this one. At least in Illinois...these nutsacks would have been sent to the courthouse square...or been allowed at the cemetary 2 hours after the funeral.

And that's the way it should be. Nobody's rights are really trampled on that way and the argument becomes moot at that point. They still get to voice their opinions without disrespecting the fallen soldier and his/her family and friends. It's too volatile of a situation to allow to continue as is. Someone is going to get killed and for what? What point is truly made by that?

I feel the REAL reason these backwards-ass hillbillies do this is because they want to incite a violent reaction just so they can sue for money. None of them seems to be sane and stable enough to hold a real job for livable income. Any respectable company that would employ any of these twisted social misfits should be boycotted.

7SteelGal43
10-09-2010, 02:15 PM
Simple solution.

They retain the right to free speech by granting them the ability to protest. However...They CAN be told to remain "X" number of feet away from funerals or be given a specific location in which they can protest Municipailities do this all the time to keep two groups of opposing protesters away from each other or simply to keep protests within the confines of certain areas for civic reasons (traffic..public safety....etc)
Failure to abide by the dictates of the municipality would be grounds for a charge of Disorderly Conduct.

In essence...create free speech zones in areas of military funerals. Free speech zones are completely legal and are based on U.S. court decisions that state the government may "regulate the time, place, and manner—but not content—of expression."



As far as I am concerned...every time this church "protests", they need to be regulated to a free speech zone between the dog pound and the city dump.


I thought the most compelling argument as far as not being a violation of right to free speech was that it was aimed at specific individuals with intent to cause harm. Westboro just needs to quit, period !

LLT
10-09-2010, 02:29 PM
I thought the most compelling argument as far as not being a violation of right to free speech was that it was aimed at specific individuals with intent to cause harm. Westboro just needs to quit, period !

Oh, I agree with you from a common sense perspective. However....The "Law" and "Common Sense" haven't been properly introduced in the last 75 years.

silver & black
10-10-2010, 08:50 AM
Oh, I agree with you from a common sense perspective. However....The "Law" and "Common Sense" haven't been properly introduced in the last 75 years.

And that is the reason for so many problems around the country, not just this particular one.

7SteelGal43
10-10-2010, 11:12 AM
Karma, baby, karma! :wink02:

Yep. And karma is a real mean bitch with a 12 inch strap-on !

BuddhaBus
10-10-2010, 11:33 AM
Yep. And karma is a real mean bitch with a 12 inch strap-on !

:rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:

zulater
10-10-2010, 04:54 PM
I agree 100%. The issue here is not the content of their message. The issue is that grieving families have the right to bury their loved ones in peace.

If the content of the message were different (such as Code Pink saying good riddance to the baby killer), there would still be a problem. But if the venue were changed (letter to the editor, protests at military recruitment centers, going on TV or radio and saying dead soldiers are God's punishment on us for tolerating gays, etc.) it would clearly be protected speech.

So there is no First Amendment issue with stopping them...we're not discriminating against their message or stopping them from expressing their views. We're simply protecting the rights of the military families.

Thanks to you and Wallace for offering common sense to this thread.:high5:

HometownGal
10-10-2010, 09:23 PM
Yep. And karma is a real mean bitch with a 12 inch strap-on !

:jawdrop2: :horror:

Remind me never to piss you off. My hoo-hah hurts just thinking of that. :heh: :hug:

GodfatherofSoul
10-14-2010, 10:33 AM
I live in Kansas which is where they're headquartered. The Phelps family makes money off of outlandish behavior followed by the press and counter-suits they file when law enforcement tries to crack down on them. They're literally nothing more than one extended family, not a real church. Ignore them, and they'll go away. Keep giving them attention and overreaching to "punish" them, and they'll keep concocting new and even more outlandish acts to get paid.