Whats REALLY Wrong With Ben Roethlisberger and The Steelers Historically Bad Offense

[Shoes]

Some interesting stuff



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6H-DbXV-lk

[EzraTank]

So he basically spent 38 minutes saying what I can say in 5 seconds.

OUR LINE SUCKS, and hiring a no name guy to run your offense isn't smart?

[Shoes]

So he basically spent 38 minutes saying what I can say in 5 seconds.

OUR LINE SUCKS, and hiring a no name guy to run your offense isn't smart?

Well, since most folks didn't break down the film as he did, he also gave a pretty good argument that it isn't all on Ben, which is what most here are harping on.

[Rotorhead]

Well, Banner back practicing, so that is at least good news

[Edman]

The Ravens put out the blueprint on the magic show surrounding this offense, and nearly every team since has feasted.


OUR LINE SUCKS, and hiring a no name guy to run your offense isn't smart?

We replaced the Offensive Line that was already struggling with a new line that is struggling and hired a new guy to replace the old guy, but kept the struggling aging quarterback.

We're the Late 90's Dolphins basically.

[86WARD]

Well, Banner back practicing, so that is at least good news

That might help the shitty play at RT.

[dislocatedday]

Thanks for posting that video Shoes. It was eye opening to me, and the person going through the footage makes a lot of great points on those plays he shows from the all-22 footage. With those camera angles, which show more that what we see live on TV as the game is occurring, it is clear that there is a lot going wrong with the Steelers offense, and it is not all Ben even if it looks that way sometimes in "real time" on television. I still think Ben's arm is toast, but the rest of the team and even quite possibly the play calling is making it difficult on him. Some of the routes being run, and where the receivers are running to on the field seem "suspect" to me, and to my untrained eye look pretty easy for the other team's defenders to cover.

It's not like Matt Canada has a proven track record of success in the NFL, so he may not be up to snuff in designing a offensive game plan at the NFL level, but I am willing to give him a chance to see what he can do. If he fails miserably though after some period of time, then I think the Steelers need to find a guy next who has a proven track record of offensive success in the NFL.

[RunNGun]

What I took from this...

1. Oline is not good. Green, specifically.
2. Ben doesn't trust his WRs or TEs to break on routes when they should, especially when he's under pressure, and rightfully so, which causes him to hold the ball a little longer than he should.
3. Ben has absolutely 000 mobility. 000. None. Nada. When a play breaks down it's over. Any pressure up the middle...it's over. He's very rarely going to buy extra time.

You can say this is not all Ben's fault, because it's absolutely not all his fault. With a clean pocket to throw from and receivers he can trust Ben would probably look like a good QB...However, with the makeup of this offense...we don't have those luxuries, obviously. With the makeup of this offense we need a QB that can create from inside/outside the pocket due to the OL issues and WRs not being able to separate.

Ben doesn't have the magic to escape pressure and extend a play. Any pressure whatsoever on Ben and the play is over. I can't say that enough. It really limits the success of this offense. With all that being said, Ben could succeed in the right offense, but this is not it.

By the time the OL gels and the receivers are on the same page Ben could quite possibly be too banged up to make a difference.

[Mojouw]

I didn’t get a chance to watch all of it. Stupid work. But…the analyst keep talking about no one open at this point or that point. But doesn’t the NFL work that you throw the ball before the guy is open rather than “looking” for the open guy? This isn’t my backyard or the Big 12.

But I’m not sure I’m thinking through this properly.

[RunNGun]

I didn’t get a chance to watch all of it. Stupid work. But…the analyst keep talking about no one open at this point or that point. But doesn’t the NFL work that you throw the ball before the guy is open rather than “looking” for the open guy? This isn’t my backyard or the Big 12.

But I’m not sure I’m thinking through this properly.

There were a few instances where Ben looked like he could have thrown the ball before the receivers break, but that's where trust and chemistry comes into effect and Ben really doesn't have that with any of his targets.

That's what made Ben to AB so great. They may have hated eachother off the field, but on the field Ben knew where AB was going to be and AB knew where Ben needed him to be. Ben has yet to develop that with any of these WRs. I thought Diontae could be that guy, but it's not looking that way.

[Mojouw]

There were a few instances where Ben looked like he could have thrown the ball before the receivers break, but that's where trust and chemistry comes into effect and Ben really doesn't have that with any of his targets.

True. I also think he’s gunshy because he doesn’t trust his arm either. But that’s not a theory I can prove. It’s more of a mindset thing I guess.

[RunNGun]

True. I also think he’s gunshy because he doesn’t trust his arm either. But that’s not a theory I can prove. It’s more of a mindset thing I guess.

You factor in the gunshyness, lack of mobility, lack of protection, lack of a running game, and lack of chemistry with his receivers, and you have a recipe for disaster. I'm not blaming Ben, but I do not believe he is the right man for the job anymore.

[Fire Goodell]

So, fire Canada? :chuckle:

[st33lersguy]

I feel it is a combination of Ben being on decline, Matt Canada being a bad OC who can't call plays (seriously why is it so hard for the Steelers to get a decent playcaller at OC, they literally haven't had one since Whisenhunt left after the 06 season), and the O-line being shit. With how limited Ben has become, the offense still would likely struggle even with a better O-line and OC

[RunNGun]

So, fire Canada? :chuckle:

I'm giving Canada a full season to see if he can develop something and make some progress. I don't know too many OCs that can block for their QB, block for their RB, and run routes for their WR and TEs.

[teegre]

Ok. I watched his analysis of the first play. Ben throws behind Ebron. The guy rationalizes the bad throw by saying that where Ben threw it, it was going to make a safer catch for Ebron (so that the safety doesn’t hit Ebron). IMO, that pass actually makes Ebron stop and get hit by the safety. If Ben leads Ebron, Ebron will run past that point (past the safety) in stride.

Of course, we all know that Ebron would have dropped it regardless.

I skipped forward a few minutes. The guy is talking about Ebron stopping on a route. (I’m not sure why Ebron is on the field let alone the primary target). Sack!!! The guy blames Ebron (deservedly so) and the O-line, but Claypool is in single coverage. If Ben throws it 15 yards deep to Claypool, it’s a completion. But, we all know that a “deep” throw near the hash marks is simply not going to occur.

SUMMATION:
If the rest of the video is equivalent to this, then it’s merely rationalization.

[86WARD]

Ok. I watched his analysis of the first play. Ben throws behind Ebron. The guy rationalizes the bad throw by saying that where Ben threw it, it was going to make a safer catch for Ebron (so that the safety doesn’t hit Ebron). IMO, that pass actually makes Ebron stop and get hit by the safety. If Ben leads Ebron, Ebron will run past that point (past the safety) in stride.

Of course, we all know that Ebron would have dropped it regardless.

I skipped forward a few minutes. The guy is talking about Ebron stopping on a route. (I’m not sure why Ebron is on the field let alone the primary target). Sack!!! The guy blames Ebron (deservedly so) and the O-line, but Claypool is in single coverage. If Ben throws it 15 yards deep to Claypool, it’s a completion. But, we all know that a “deep” throw near the hash marks is simply not going to occur.

SUMMATION:
If the rest of the video is equivalent to this, then it’s merely rationalization.

Thanks for checking that out. It’s clear that his accuracy is off, I suspect that’s been the case for a few years now and that some of the receivers (AB) made it look better then it actually was. It’s been masked for years.

I also suspect that aside from his arm being shot that he has zero confidence in receivers not named JuJu. These receivers just aren’t on the same page as Ben either or maybe Ben just isn’t on the same page as the receivers?

[EzraTank]

Ok. I watched his analysis of the first play. Ben throws behind Ebron. The guy rationalizes the bad throw by saying that where Ben threw it, it was going to make a safer catch for Ebron (so that the safety doesn’t hit Ebron). IMO, that pass actually makes Ebron stop and get hit by the safety. If Ben leads Ebron, Ebron will run past that point (past the safety) in stride.

Saw that too, thought the same thing. What a BS excuse. It all comes to chemistry. If Ebron and Ben were on the same page then Ebron would have sat down, shielded the defender and made the catch, but Ben cannot assume Ebron is going to do that. I totally disagreed with the guys take as well, if Ben leads him Ebron catches it on the run. Ebron is not a tiny WR, he's a big boy and would have taken a hit just fine, assuming he didn't drop it. Plus in today's NFL safeties cannot level "defenseless receivers" anyhow.



I skipped forward a few minutes. The guy is talking about Ebron stopping on a route. (I’m not sure why Ebron is on the field let alone the primary target). Sack!!! The guy blames Ebron (deservedly so) and the O-line, but Claypool is in single coverage. If Ben throws it 15 yards deep to Claypool, it’s a completion. But, we all know that a “deep” throw near the hash marks is simply not going to occur.

SUMMATION:
If the rest of the video is equivalent to this, then it’s merely rationalization.

Well said and agree. Yes the video clearly proved that our OL stinks and Ben has very little time to throw. But this is where a younger QB would be great because it would allow for designed roll outs to move the defensive line. Right now teams know we cannot run, Ben cannot move so they just pin their ears back and know Ben will be sitting in the pocket like potatoes ready to be sacked.

[Rotorhead]

I see a lot of people talking about “a younger mobile QB . . .” who was this younger mobile QB going to be? MR is less mobile than Ben and Haskins (who is more mobile) couldn’t beat MR for the backup role. The fact is we have Ben (until he is injured from all the hits) for this year, and that is t going to change.

[Rotorhead]

Ok. I watched his analysis of the first play. Ben throws behind Ebron. The guy rationalizes the bad throw by saying that where Ben threw it, it was going to make a safer catch for Ebron (so that the safety doesn’t hit Ebron). IMO, that pass actually makes Ebron stop and get hit by the safety. If Ben leads Ebron, Ebron will run past that point (past the safety) in stride.

Of course, we all know that Ebron would have dropped it regardless.

I skipped forward a few minutes. The guy is talking about Ebron stopping on a route. (I’m not sure why Ebron is on the field let alone the primary target). Sack!!! The guy blames Ebron (deservedly so) and the O-line, but Claypool is in single coverage. If Ben throws it 15 yards deep to Claypool, it’s a completion. But, we all know that a “deep” throw near the hash marks is simply not going to occur.

SUMMATION:
If the rest of the video is equivalent to this, then it’s merely rationalization.

Nah, you see when Ben gets pressured it basically blocks off half the field most of the time, several times pressure is up the middle in less than 2 seconds and the WRs aren’t even in their initial breaks yet so Ben is already looking to the dump off guy. The times he does move to extend the plays, after 5-6 seconds there is still nobody open. It honestly reminds me of Bruce Arians plays back in the day where the plays took too long to develop. We have no plays that include intermediate routes from what I saw. Yes there were some bad throws by Ben. But between the drops, bad throws and penalties killed our offense against the Bengals. If we can get rid of the drops and penalties (something we control) we can have 3+ scoring drives a game. Hell, penalties stopped 2 drive extensions in the running game with 2 good runs by Najee called back and drops stopped 2 more. That is 4 opportunities to score thwarted by penalties and drops alone.

[Shoes]

I see a lot of people talking about “a younger mobile QB . . .” who was this younger mobile QB going to be? MR is less mobile than Ben and Haskins (who is more mobile) couldn’t beat MR for the backup role. The fact is we have Ben (until he is injured from all the hits) for this year, and that is t going to change.


I think its safe to say Mason is more mobile than Ben. The video is mostly his pass plays, which is refreshing to watch from what we have seen. I hope he gets another shot at it. About 3:50 he's flushed out of the pocket. You might want to turn the sound down. :chuckle:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGqqJKgn8BU

[RunNGun]

I think its safe to say Mason is more mobile than Ben. The video is mostly his pass plays, which is refreshing to watch from what we have seen. I hope he gets another shot at it. About 3:50 he's flushed out of the pocket. You might want to turn the sound down. :chuckle:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGqqJKgn8BU

Everything Ben does is slow, from dropping back to handing the ball off. Those tenths of a second can make a difference. The only thing Ben does fast right now is getting rid of the ball, so he doesn’t get killed and getting our defense back on the field.

I don't necessarily believe Rudolph will make this offense better, but I don't believe he could make it worse...it can't get worse. I think MR has more passion at this point in their careers and at the very least, players and fans can feed off of his energy. Throw MR out there until he sinks and then give Haskins a shot. It's time.

[Shoes]

Everything Ben does is slow, from dropping back to handing the ball off. Those tenths of a second can make a difference. The only thing Ben does fast right now is getting rid of the ball, so he doesn’t get killed and getting our defense back on the field.

I don't necessarily believe Rudolph will make this offense better, but I don't believe he could make it worse...it can't get worse. I think MR has more passion at this point in their careers and at the very least, players and fans can feed off of his energy. Throw MR out there until he sinks and then give Haskins a shot. It's time.

I think our entire offense looks slow when you compare it to that video. I know we had a better oline then, but the WR's moved like they had a pulse, now not so much.

[Fire Goodell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW9muA5yMSM

[Fire Goodell]

Even the Jaguars managed to score 21 points on the Bengals. The freakin Jags

[teegre]

Well said and agree. Yes the video clearly proved that our OL stinks and Ben has very little time to throw. But this is where a younger QB would be great because it would allow for designed roll outs to move the defensive line. Right now teams know we cannot run, Ben cannot move so they just pin their ears back and know Ben will be sitting in the pocket like potatoes ready to be sacked.

I didn’t watch many of the other plays, but what I saw (and have seen in games) is that pre-snap there are 9-10 guys in the box. The O-line has to do do triage: decide which ones are the biggest threat. At the snap, the defense usually only sends 6 (which isn’t “too” bad), but the O-line doesn’t always guess right which defender to block. For example, sometimes the O-line will look to block defender A, but defender A has dropped into coverage… while defender B runs free.

Plus, like you said, those pass-rushers don’t even look to stop the run… because the three defenders who didn’t rush have dropped back 5-7 yards past the LOS. This is a safety net for any runs; if they see a handoff, that “wall” crashes down and closes any holes. Furthermore, that wall essentially takes away any dump offs over the middle for easy yards. Instead, it forces the dump offs to Najee to be thrown towards the sidelins (usually behind the LOS) stretching him out and making it difficult to get more than 2-3 yards (without running 25 yards in the process).

Again, I see one deep safety. The DBs are all in man. The rest of the entire defense loads up near the LOS… and sometimes even the corners and/or the safeties will all be in the box. You never know which one is coming. It would be a tough task for ANY O-line, let alone a line comprised of two rookies and a second-year player.

[teegre]

Nah, you see when Ben gets pressured it basically blocks off half the field most of the time, several times pressure is up the middle in less than 2 seconds and the WRs aren’t even in their initial breaks yet so Ben is already looking to the dump off guy. The times he does move to extend the plays, after 5-6 seconds there is still nobody open. It honestly reminds me of Bruce Arians plays back in the day where the plays took too long to develop. We have no plays that include intermediate routes from what I saw. Yes there were some bad throws by Ben. But between the drops, bad throws and penalties killed our offense against the Bengals. If we can get rid of the drops and penalties (something we control) we can have 3+ scoring drives a game. Hell, penalties stopped 2 drive extensions in the running game with 2 good runs by Najee called back and drops stopped 2 more. That is 4 opportunities to score thwarted by penalties and drops alone.

You are talking about the other plays (correct?).

On the two that I watched, specifically the one with Claypool open, there’s a clean pocket (the perfect semicircle) for two seconds… which was plenty of times for Claypool to be open across the deep (15 yards) middle.

One one-thousand, two one-thousand… throw it to Claypool… first down.

Instead, it is:

One one-thousand, two one-thousand… wait for Ebron to break free… look at Najee… wait for Ebron…

Why is he looking at Ebron??? Really. Even when Ebron breaks free, we ALL know that Ebron will DROP that pass. Ebron should NOT be on the field. I’d go with Freiermuth from here on out.

But, I digressss. Back to the topic of this thread: Why is Ben WAITING for Ebron to be “open” before throwing the ball??? If Ben throws it at two seconds (which is the agreed upon “limit” for this O-line), he has Claypool already open AND Ebron is about to break free. If that throw comes out at two seconds (as everyone seems to say is the limit for this O-line) Ben has two viable options. The guy in the video saying that Ben was WAITING for Ebron to “get open” is a weird excuse… and is actually more concerning than maybe he realizes.

[Mojouw]

Ben has always been a wait for the guy to be open here he throws it kinda guy. It’s just that now, open is even more than it used to be.

I rewatched the video and question if the guy making it knows what he’s talking about.

But, I don’t either.

[EzraTank]

I think its safe to say Mason is more mobile than Ben. The video is mostly his pass plays, which is refreshing to watch from what we have seen. I hope he gets another shot at it. About 3:50 he's flushed out of the pocket. You might want to turn the sound down. :chuckle:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGqqJKgn8BU

Yes but in all those highlights Rudolph has the one thing that this year's QB's do not. TIME to throw.

But with that said, did you notice how many of those passes he hit the guy on the move for YAC? Ben barely does that anymore. If the Steelers get blown out this weekend they have to bench Ben and at least see if Rudolph can give them a spark.

[Mojouw]

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/10/the-wide-receiver-film-room-week-3-vs-bengals/

This breakdown finds multiple routes with guys pretty darn open for the NFL that Ben just didn't take or didn't see.

Who is right? I don't really know. But I have my ideas.