Claypool Says Defenses Are Taking Away The Middle Of The Field

[Shoes]

Claypool said defenses always seem to have an answer for whatever the offense is trying to do.

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/09/chase-claypool-says-defenses-are-taking-away-the-middle-of-the-field/

[Fire Goodell]

I guess that happens when the QB can't make you pay for doing that

[Shoes]

I remember Hines Ward saying just about the same thing when we played the Pats

[Edman]

Yes, Chase. That tends to happen when your QB is diminished.

[vasteeler]

Love all the Ben hate. Patrick Mahomes would not be successful in this offense with this offensive line.

[steelcityboyz]

Love all the Ben hate. Patrick Mahomes would not be successful in this offense with this offensive line.Pat Mahomes O-line isn't much better and he seems to put up points each game. Bottom line Ben needs to sit.

[Shoes]

Pat Mahomes O-line isn't much better and he seems to put up points each game. Bottom line Ben needs to sit.


Yes, and they are also in last place in their division. :chuckle:

[steelcityboyz]

Yes, and they are also in last place in their division. :chuckle:But they are at least in a position to win the game most of the time.. the steelers? Eh, not even close.

[Fire Goodell]

But they are at least in a position to win the game most of the time

That and they can at least say their losses were to good teams. Losing to the Bengals at home is inexcusable

[steelcityboyz]

I don't understand how some can't see that Ben is past his prime. It's easy to blame the O-Line and don't get me wrong they are terrible, but some of the decisions Ben made yesterday were rookie mistakes at best. He needs to sit we're not winning anymore games with his play. Let's see what MR or Haskins can do, nothing to lose here.

[Shoes]

But they are at least in a position to win the game most of the time.. the steelers? Eh, not even close.


That and they can at least say their losses were to good teams. Losing to the Bengals at home is inexcusable


Well the Steelers just reverse things. They beat good teams and lose to bad ones, this is a common with the Steelers. Different strategies to get the same results. :chuckle:

[Shoes]

I don't understand how some can't see that Ben is past his prime. It's easy to blame the O-Line and don't get me wrong they are terrible, but some of the decisions Ben made yesterday were rookie mistakes at best. He needs to sit we're not winning anymore games with his play. Let's see what MR or Haskins can do, nothing to lose here.

I don't think there is anyone here that doesn't see that Ben is past his prime. As for MR, you must have a short memory. I remember about 99% of this forum hating him. Think it will change if he doesn't meet their exceptions? How about Haskins if he gets a chance, think it will be any different if he stinks? There are more problems on this team than Ben, granted he is a problem but there are many other issues.

[CV1]

I don’t blame just the O-Line or Ben or Canada (in a Ryan Reynold’s voice- “Oh Canada”)

I blame all 3

I’d gladly shop many of the WRs on our team for an O-Line [emoji1690]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vasteeler]

Pat Mahomes O-line isn't much better and he seems to put up points each game. Bottom line Ben needs to sit.

Lol... Their OL might not be great but it's leaps and bounds better than ours.

[that1guy]

I don’t blame just the O-Line or Ben or Canada (in a Ryan Reynold’s voice- “Oh Canada”)

I blame all 3

I’d gladly shop many of the WRs on our team for an O-Line [emoji1690]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I blame the Steelers organization for not having a plan in place for what was bound to happen. The Organization knew full well that the Offensive line was aging rapidly, they had heard Ben say how many time he was contemplating retirement not to mention his massive decline at the end of last season. The writing has been on the wall for at least 2 seasons and it was flat out ignored. This is an epic organizational failure, all great franchises SF,Green Bay, KC , NE see that the driving force of the team is failing and they begin to correct it before it fails. Not Pittsburgh

[Shoes]

I blame the Steelers organization for not having a plan in place for what was bound to happen. The Organization knew full well that the Offensive line was aging rapidly, they had heard Ben say how many time he was contemplating retirement not to mention his massive decline at the end of last season. The writing has been on the wall for at least 2 seasons and it was flat out ignored. This is an epic organizational failure, all great franchises SF,Green Bay, KC , NE see that the driving force of the team is failing and they begin to correct it before it fails. Not Pittsburgh

The Steeler organization watched and let Ben get the snot knocked out of him for years because of a shitty oline and it now seems we have come full circle. If I was Ben I would tell them to pound salt and move on to the next chapter. If that did happen nothing would change on the fan side, we would just find the next player to hate. I remember Troy saying there is nothing more fickle than a football fan.

[steelcityboyz]

I don't think there is anyone here that doesn't see that Ben is past his prime. As for MR, you must have a short memory. I remember about 99% of this forum hating him. Think it will change if he doesn't meet their exceptions? How about Haskins if he gets a chance, think it will be any different if he stinks? There are more problems on this team than Ben, granted he is a problem but there are many other issues.I definitely remember the hate, I'm not saying Mason or Haskins are going to take us to the promise land but they're the only choices left. I actually believe it's the play calling. If you remember when duck and mason were starting they too were only throwing 8-10 yard passes. I don't know what the answer is but they need a spark from somewhere.

[Mojouw]

I blame the Steelers organization for not having a plan in place for what was bound to happen. The Organization knew full well that the Offensive line was aging rapidly, they had heard Ben say how many time he was contemplating retirement not to mention his massive decline at the end of last season. The writing has been on the wall for at least 2 seasons and it was flat out ignored. This is an epic organizational failure, all great franchises SF,Green Bay, KC , NE see that the driving force of the team is failing and they begin to correct it before it fails. Not Pittsburgh

Wait...what? KC prior to Mahomes was doing what? If they hadn't gotten Mahomes....what wast their existing great plan? NE got rid of Brady, burned through Cam and now has some mediocre noodle armed guy starting. As for O' line's...KC's was awful very recently and the jury is still out on this year's version. NE, even in the dynasty years, had some bad o-lines.

I mean, jeez, the Steelers suck and will likely to continue to suck this year. But to paint this as some systemic failure due to a big ol' blind spot is to basically ignore what happens to EVERY other NFL franchise when a HOF QB leaves/retires/or falls of a cliff. There is ONE place/time it hasn't happened in the salary cap era - Favre/Rodgers. Even post Colts Manning had to "suck for Luck".

[that1guy]

Wait...what? KC prior to Mahomes was doing what? If they hadn't gotten Mahomes....what wast their existing great plan? NE got rid of Brady, burned through Cam and now has some mediocre noodle armed guy starting. As for O' line's...KC's was awful very recently and the jury is still out on this year's version. NE, even in the dynasty years, had some bad o-lines.

I mean, jeez, the Steelers suck and will likely to continue to suck this year. But to paint this as some systemic failure due to a big ol' blind spot is to basically ignore what happens to EVERY other NFL franchise when a HOF QB leaves/retires/or falls of a cliff. There is ONE place/time it hasn't happened in the salary cap era - Favre/Rodgers. Even post Colts Manning had to "suck for Luck".
Montana/Young
Favre/Rodgers
Smith/Mahomes
Brady/Cam/"Noodle Arm".
The fact is that the Steelers should have addressed the Aging QB/Oline.

[Edman]

Wait...what? KC prior to Mahomes was doing what? If they hadn't gotten Mahomes....what wast their existing great plan? NE got rid of Brady, burned through Cam and now has some mediocre noodle armed guy starting. As for O' line's...KC's was awful very recently and the jury is still out on this year's version. NE, even in the dynasty years, had some bad o-lines.

I mean, jeez, the Steelers suck and will likely to continue to suck this year. But to paint this as some systemic failure due to a big ol' blind spot is to basically ignore what happens to EVERY other NFL franchise when a HOF QB leaves/retires/or falls of a cliff. There is ONE place/time it hasn't happened in the salary cap era - Favre/Rodgers. Even post Colts Manning had to "suck for Luck".

The Steelers gambled on Ben returning to form after his elbow injury and rolled snake eyes. They had signed him to that anchor contract after 2017. Their hands are tied at that point. They had a declining Ben on a deal that had him making 40 mil this season and forced him to take a pay cut and save face.

I personally think the Steelers have only two options now. Get Ben to 400 TD's and slap him with an "injury" and hope Mason can salvage something, or just play Ben the rest of the season and tank for a higher pick.

[that1guy]

The Steeler organization watched and let Ben get the snot knocked out of him for years because of a shitty oline and it now seems we have come full circle. If I was Ben I would tell them to pound salt and move on to the next chapter. If that did happen nothing would change on the fan side, we would just find the next player to hate. I remember Troy saying there is nothing more fickle than a football fan.
You've gotta feel bad for Ben at this point, he's taken a crazy number of his in a short period of time. I don't think what fans are doing now is Hate, he doesn't have youth on his side and his skill has diminished to the point that his play is unrecognizable. I wish nothing but the best for Ben but bringing him back for this final season was a bad mistake that affects Ben (physically) and the football team secondly.

[Mojouw]

Montana/Young
Favre/Rodgers
Smith/Mahomes
Brady/Cam/"Noodle Arm".
The fact is that the Steelers should have addressed the Aging QB/Oline.

Montana to Young was pre salary cap and free agency.

Alex Smith sucked to the degree that there are stats for poor QB play named for him. so not sure what the point was there.

And they did address it. They are starting 4 guys on their rookie contracts. 2 of which are actually rookies. And as bad as the line may or may not be, go look at other options lines with similar youth. Woof. They're even worse.

I'm as negative and grumpy about this season as anyone else. I've been pissy about since last season ended.

But you gotta be realistic.

[Mojouw]

The Steelers gambled on Ben returning to form after his elbow injury and rolled snake eyes. They had signed him to that anchor contract after 2017. Their hands are tied at that point. They had a declining Ben on a deal that had him making 40 mil this season and forced him to take a pay cut and save face.

I personally think the Steelers have only two options now. Get Ben to 400 TD's and slap him with an "injury" and hope Mason can salvage something, or just play Ben the rest of the season and tank for a higher pick.

Everyone did the best they could with the hand they had to play.

Other than the season Ben ate a Buick and exploded his elbow, they've been "in contention" for almost 2 decades. Few other franchises can say that.

Picking at the end of the draft, paying $$$ to retain your guys because other teams want to sign them, and you actually have drafted and developed stars -its amazing that the wheels haven't come off before.

[st33lersguy]

It's kind of not hard to figure out how to stop such a limited offense

[DesertSteel]

Montana to Young was pre salary cap and free agency.

Alex Smith sucked to the degree that there are stats for poor QB play named for him. so not sure what the point was there.

And they did address it. They are starting 4 guys on their rookie contracts. 2 of which are actually rookies. And as bad as the line may or may not be, go look at other options lines with similar youth. Woof. They're even worse.

I'm as negative and grumpy about this season as anyone else. I've been pissy about since last season ended.

But you gotta be realistic.
I’d put Romo to Dak as a legitimate addition to that short list. Not on the Favre to Rodgers level but in the good/very good space.

[Mojouw]

I’d put Romo to Dak as a legitimate addition to that short list. Not on the Favre to Rodgers level but in the good/very good space.

That's a good one. But didn't Romo have a poor season before they took Dak? I honestly can't remember.

[Rotorhead]

I don't understand how some can't see that Ben is past his prime. It's easy to blame the O-Line and don't get me wrong they are terrible, but some of the decisions Ben made yesterday were rookie mistakes at best. He needs to sit we're not winning anymore games with his play. Let's see what MR or Haskins can do, nothing to lose here.

We can see it, but we can also see there isn’t a better option, so if we fix the OL at least he would have more than 2s to pass the ball before he is sacked.

[Fire Goodell]

That's a good one. But didn't Romo have a poor season before they took Dak? I honestly can't remember.

Played only 4 games in 2015 due to injuries, but was 3-1 as the starter. Got injured in the 2016 preseason which kept him out of the first 10 games. With Dak's success he pretty much was backup status by the time he was ready to play again, though he wouldn't see the field until week 17. He then retired after that season.

I'd say it wasn't as seamless as the favre-rodgers transition since the cowboys didn't have Dak until the 2016 season, but still worth a mention. A couple of bad injuries did Romo in, he didn't have the same decline Ben did

[Mojouw]

Played only 4 games in 2015 due to injuries, but was 3-1 as the starter. Got injured in the 2016 preseason which kept him out of the first 10 games. With Dak's success he pretty much was backup status by the time he was ready to play again, though he wouldn't see the field until week 17. He then retired after that season.

I'd say it wasn't as seamless as the favre-rodgers transition since the cowboys didn't have Dak until the 2016 season, but still worth a mention. A couple of bad injuries did Romo in, he didn't have the same decline Ben did

Ok. Thanks for pulling that together. QB transitions are always interesting to watch as oitsidrrs. Now we can go through one as interested parties.

[DesertSteel]

The Favre-Rodgers transition, while seamless on the field, was very soapy otherwise.

[Mojouw]

The Favre-Rodgers transition, while seamless on the field, was very soapy otherwise.

So...Mason Rudolph weiner picks on Twitter this off season? What a time to be alive !

[Edman]

The Favre-Rodgers transition, while seamless on the field, was very soapy otherwise.

Favre signed with a division rival to stick it to the Packers for one year.

Otherwise, pretty seamless.

[Fire Goodell]

So...Mason Rudolph weiner picks on Twitter this off season? What a time to be alive !

:chuckle:

weiner picks? that's so 2000's, he's gonna put his dong on tiktok :chuckle:

[DesertSteel]

Favre signed with a division rival to stick it to the Packers for one year.

Otherwise, pretty seamless.
No it wasn't. Favre and Rodgers couldn't stand each other.

[Disco1981]

Pat Mahomes O-line isn't much better and he seems to put up points each game. Bottom line Ben needs to sit.


LMAO... Mahommes Line IS way better!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Let's see what MR or Haskins can do, nothing to lose here.

except most of our games.

[86WARD]

The Steelers gambled on Ben returning to form after his elbow injury and rolled snake eyes. They had signed him to that anchor contract after 2017. Their hands are tied at that point. They had a declining Ben on a deal that had him making 40 mil this season and forced him to take a pay cut and save face.

I personally think the Steelers have only two options now. Get Ben to 400 TD's and slap him with an "injury" and hope Mason can salvage something, or just play Ben the rest of the season and tank for a higher pick.

Partially incorrect. Where the Steelers gambled was with drafting Mason Rudolph and thinking he was an NFL QB with a first round grade. That’s where the real gamble was. If Rudolph were truly an NFL QB, this is where the torch would be passed. However, since the gamble failed, there are plenty of torches and no one to pass them to.

[Edman]

except most of our games.

The Steelers are 2-7 in their last nine games, and looked sub average to terrible in all of them.

I think "Most of our games" is already done with.

[EzraTank]

When is the last time Ben hit a receiver running in full stride with a perfect pass so they have a chance to add (YAC) to the play? It was probably with Juju at some point but the fact is Ben's throws are so bad that receivers constantly have to adjust to them so they have no chance of catching them on the run or at all. I think a lot of our dropped balls are just shitty throws by Ben.

[Mojouw]

Good points on here.

Another thing to think about...McVay was viewed as a schematic genius and a clever manipulator who got guys open and gave his QB easy throws. Then teams caught on and took away the deep stuff (along with Goff just regressing). McVay's offense looked ineffective and broken.

Insert Stafford and his cannon of an arm into the equation...boom! McVay's offense is humming again and Rams receivers appear to be wandering through NFL defenses uncovered regularly.

I mean when this is your passing chart through 3 weeks:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/hXMLTXwD5yeLqoqOa68151qyr54=/0x0:1236x912/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:1236x912):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22881956/Screen_Shot_2021_09_27_at_10.56.56_AM.png

You are making it far too easy for a defense. Change this chart with even some ATTEMPTS into the "no go zone" and things start looking better. Maybe get truly wild and do some under center play action stuff that then leads to a throw over the middle...whew, boy...might actually move the defense around a bit.

The middle of the field is only closed because the QB refuses to do the basic things needed to open it.

[Edman]

Picked this up from the Packers Board. They detailed Ben's passing statistics this season so far.


At or behind LOS: 31/38 (82%), 1 TD, 1 INT

1-5 yards: 25/37 (68%), 1 TD, 1 INT

6-10 yards: 10/17 (59%)

11-15 yards: 8/14 (57%), 1 TD

16-20 yards: 6/11 (55%)

20+ yards: 3/13 (23%), 1 INT


His completetion percentage plummets to 49% throwing beyond five yards. These are near Kordell numbers.

[Edman]

Partially incorrect. Where the Steelers gambled was with drafting Mason Rudolph and thinking he was an NFL QB with a first round grade. That’s where the real gamble was. If Rudolph were truly an NFL QB, this is where the torch would be passed. However, since the gamble failed, there are plenty of torches and no one to pass them to.

I disagree, Rudolph was going back to the bench regardless of however 2019 turned out. The Steelers were paying Ben the big money, not him. Suppose they hand the torch over to Rudolph like you said. They still have that big anchor contract to deal with regarding Ben. Unfortunately, the Steelers were not going to jettison him for nothing, and no one was going to budge on a trade for a 38 year old QB coming off major elbow surgery. Colbert'll get laughed out the building. A trade wasn't going to work, and a release would be a public/fan relations nightmare and destroy their cap space at the same time. The Steelers are up shit creek without a paddle with their new Quarterback. The fanbase was already mixed on Mason, cutting Ben for him would make him a pariah in Steelers Nation.

In hindsight, the Ben contract extension was the single biggest organizational blunder the Steelers have ever done to date. It was a decision within reason, but it was a blunder that created the mess this team is in now. All they can do now is hope things improve, ride it out and wait for the end to come.

[that1guy]

When is the last time Ben hit a receiver running in full stride with a perfect pass so they have a chance to add (YAC) to the play? It was probably with Juju at some point but the fact is Ben's throws are so bad that receivers constantly have to adjust to them so they have no chance of catching them on the run or at all. I think a lot of our dropped balls are just shitty throws by Ben.

On a lot of Podcast/Shows blame falls more on the receivers for not creating separation than on Ben for inaccuracy but your point is more in line with the truth

[ETL]

Agree. It was a mistake to extend Ben and I was vociferous about not doing it. But here we are. We just have to get thru this season.

I don’t think we are as bad as we think we are. Hopefully we can avoid a losing season

[Crow-Magnon]

Good points on here.

Another thing to think about...McVay was viewed as a schematic genius and a clever manipulator who got guys open and gave his QB easy throws. Then teams caught on and took away the deep stuff (along with Goff just regressing). McVay's offense looked ineffective and broken.

Insert Stafford and his cannon of an arm into the equation...boom! McVay's offense is humming again and Rams receivers appear to be wandering through NFL defenses uncovered regularly.

I mean when this is your passing chart through 3 weeks:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/hXMLTXwD5yeLqoqOa68151qyr54=/0x0:1236x912/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:1236x912):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22881956/Screen_Shot_2021_09_27_at_10.56.56_AM.png

You are making it far too easy for a defense. Change this chart with even some ATTEMPTS into the "no go zone" and things start looking better. Maybe get truly wild and do some under center play action stuff that then leads to a throw over the middle...whew, boy...might actually move the defense around a bit.

The middle of the field is only closed because the QB refuses to do the basic things needed to open it.

That pass chart is an eye-opener.

Look, I think Ben is pretty much done, but I do not think all the Steelers offensive woes can be pinned on him and him alone. The OL is rather weak, which affects everything. Even a sub-par QB can accomplish quite a bit with time to find receivers, and dominant run blocking gets 4.3+ YPC and also opens passing lanes. Having said that, a good/great QB can still get the job done without a great OL.

So Pittsburgh’s problems are compounded by an OL that can’t really block all that well, coupled with an aging quarterback who is showing he truly is past his prime. Let’s face it, fellas. It’s a hard decision to make about when (not if, but when) a franchise makes the call to bench their future HOF QB. Too early, and you risk ruining a relationship between him and the club and creating loads of controversy. Especially if they depart and sign with another team and continue to perform at a high level. Too late, and you run the risk of substandard play and losses. I think as fans it’s a lot easier to make that call one way or the other than it is for head coaches, GM’s and owners.

I think one major blunder was looking at Ben’s age, injuries and not seriously looking for a potential replacement waiting in the wings. I don’t think many truly consider Rudolph as anything more than a back-up QB. Or Haskins. But even that has consequences (ask Aaron Rodgers).

I’ll say this. Over the past few decades the Steelers have been a resilient franchise. There are many teams in the NFL that would love to have had the success that Pittsburgh has enjoyed. This season may not turn out to be one of them (and at 1-2 with 14 games to play, it’s still WAY to early to throw in the towel), but if so, history shows that’s not likely to last long.

[ETL]

Ooooh the years between Bradshaw and Ben were painful. More than 20 years of inept QB play. I rather have the car door slam shut on my ding dong than go through those 20 years again

[Fire Goodell]

Ooooh the years between Bradshaw and Ben were painful. More than 20 years of inept QB play. I rather have the car door slam shut on my ding dong than go through those 20 years again

O'Donnell was pretty good and I thought we had a good chance of winning a championship if he stayed in Pittsburgh. Kordell was fun to watch. IDK i guess I wasn't around for the Bradshaw days, my first experience as a Steeler fan was watching Bubby :chuckle:

[86WARD]

I disagree, Rudolph was going back to the bench regardless of however 2019 turned out. The Steelers were paying Ben the big money, not him. Suppose they hand the torch over to Rudolph like you said. They still have that big anchor contract to deal with regarding Ben. Unfortunately, the Steelers were not going to jettison him for nothing, and no one was going to budge on a trade for a 38 year old QB coming off major elbow surgery. Colbert'll get laughed out the building. A trade wasn't going to work, and a release would be a public/fan relations nightmare and destroy their cap space at the same time. The Steelers are up shit creek without a paddle with their new Quarterback. The fanbase was already mixed on Mason, cutting Ben for him would make him a pariah in Steelers Nation.

In hindsight, the Ben contract extension was the single biggest organizational blunder the Steelers have ever done to date. It was a decision within reason, but it was a blunder that created the mess this team is in now. All they can do now is hope things improve, ride it out and wait for the end to come.

They can’t hand the torch to Rudolph. He’s not good enough. The point of the post is they were never prepared for this day. They banked on Rudolph thinking he was a first round talent. He was far from it. Point of the post is that there is no one to pass the torch to. Therefore, they are stuck with Ben at QB and a terrible QB room behind him. If they had Jordan Love or Trey Lance or a young prospect of any kind that has been sitting, now would be the time that torch got passed. They don’t have anyone to pass the torch to.

[86WARD]

O'Donnell was pretty good and I thought we had a good chance of winning a championship if he stayed in Pittsburgh. Kordell was fun to watch. IDK i guess I wasn't around for the Bradshaw days, my first experience as a Steeler fan was watching Bubby :chuckle:

I’d take Bubby over what the Steelers have at the moment. Lol.

[vasteeler]

I’d take Bubby over what the Steelers have at the moment. Lol.

Psh... Bubby is even older than Ben:heh:

[Mojouw]

They can’t hand the torch to Rudolph. He’s not good enough. The point of the post is they were never prepared for this day. They banked on Rudolph thinking he was a first round talent. He was far from it. Point of the post is that there is no one to pass the torch to. Therefore, they are stuck with Ben at QB and a terrible QB room behind him. If they had Jordan Love or Trey Lance or a young prospect of any kind that has been sitting, now would be the time that torch got passed. They don’t have anyone to pass the torch to.

They did prepare. They just got it wrong. They have been constantly looking for a low cost high reward replacement at QB since they drafted Josh Dobbs. It isn't that they didn't prepare, Colbert and company have clearly been attempting to prepare, it is just that they were not willing to allocate enough resources to it.

They have been walking a tightrope with adding to the current roster for a playoff push and building the next roster. It has led to weird decisions (Dobbs over Kittle), Claypool at the top of their draft, a RB and a TE over everything else last time, etc.

Unfortunately, they are going to have to continue that. The defense is basically ready to win now-ish. They need to rebuild the secondary a bit. Haden in trail position on these young AFC north WRs isn't going to work and Pierre is maybe not as good as the preseason indicated. But the front 7 is ready. The WRs are good enough to make a playoff run with.

Here is what I think is the worst thing about the FO "preparations" they have stripped themselves of 2022 draft assets and for what? They do not have a 4, 5, or a 6th round pick so that they could rent Avery WIlliamson for a season, jump up for Loudermilk, and get Schobert. Each of those moves makes sense in a vacuum...but now you don't have as much draft capital to move around and chase a QB. I mean a 4-6 pick likely isn't really going to be the thing that prevents you from doing that...but still...at some point you have to start hoarding assets to make your move.

The Witherspoon deal is the one that really gets to me. A future 5th (2023 I think?) and almost certainly losing out on a 5th round comp pick this upcoming draft for a dude that doesn't play over Pierre and Layne? Not a "smart" move for a team that is going to have to trade a haul of picks and players at some point to "go get their guy" at QB...

[Shoes]

They can’t hand the torch to Rudolph. He’s not good enough. The point of the post is they were never prepared for this day. They banked on Rudolph thinking he was a first round talent. He was far from it. Point of the post is that there is no one to pass the torch to. Therefore, they are stuck with Ben at QB and a terrible QB room behind him. If they had Jordan Love or Trey Lance or a young prospect of any kind that has been sitting, now would be the time that torch got passed. They don’t have anyone to pass the torch to.


I beg to differ. They may have thought he had R1 potential but they drafted him in R3. It's the fans that are acting as if he was a R1 pick. If Ben goes down and he plays well, its very possible he will be starter next year. If not, he will have a long career as a backup. I can see it now MR wins the SB and the game day thread crew all go out and buy MR jerseys. :chuckle:

[Edman]

They can’t hand the torch to Rudolph. He’s not good enough. The point of the post is they were never prepared for this day. They banked on Rudolph thinking he was a first round talent. He was far from it. Point of the post is that there is no one to pass the torch to. Therefore, they are stuck with Ben at QB and a terrible QB room behind him. If they had Jordan Love or Trey Lance or a young prospect of any kind that has been sitting, now would be the time that torch got passed. They don’t have anyone to pass the torch to.

And how do we know this exactly? Mason was going to sit out 2019 if Ben doesn't get hurt, and was going back to the bench irregardless of how that season turned out. No amount of skill he showed was going to change that. Ben wasn't going to retire and the Steelers owed him too much money.

The original plan was to have Ben finish his years out with the team, and have Mason sit and prepare for a couple of years. Then Ben's elbow exploded and he crashed and burned when he came back. The Steelers DID prepare for times after Ben, but Murphy's Law happened.

Speaking of Jordan Love, he's still riding the pine, and probably won't start for another two seasons. Rodgers is under contract until 2023. Jordan Love's rookie contract will already expire by then. So according to your idea, the torch should be passed by this point, but the franchise QB won't leave. The Packers are doing the only feasible thing they can do. Wait out the end of the Rodgers Era and let Love sit.

[86WARD]

They did prepare. They just got it wrong. They have been constantly looking for a low cost high reward replacement at QB since they drafted Josh Dobbs. It isn't that they didn't prepare, Colbert and company have clearly been attempting to prepare, it is just that they were not willing to allocate enough resources to it.

They have been walking a tightrope with adding to the current roster for a playoff push and building the next roster. It has led to weird decisions (Dobbs over Kittle), Claypool at the top of their draft, a RB and a TE over everything else last time, etc.

Unfortunately, they are going to have to continue that. The defense is basically ready to win now-ish. They need to rebuild the secondary a bit. Haden in trail position on these young AFC north WRs isn't going to work and Pierre is maybe not as good as the preseason indicated. But the front 7 is ready. The WRs are good enough to make a playoff run with.

Here is what I think is the worst thing about the FO "preparations" they have stripped themselves of 2022 draft assets and for what? They do not have a 4, 5, or a 6th round pick so that they could rent Avery WIlliamson for a season, jump up for Loudermilk, and get Schobert. Each of those moves makes sense in a vacuum...but now you don't have as much draft capital to move around and chase a QB. I mean a 4-6 pick likely isn't really going to be the thing that prevents you from doing that...but still...at some point you have to start hoarding assets to make your move.

The Witherspoon deal is the one that really gets to me. A future 5th (2023 I think?) and almost certainly losing out on a 5th round comp pick this upcoming draft for a dude that doesn't play over Pierre and Layne? Not a "smart" move for a team that is going to have to trade a haul of picks and players at some point to "go get their guy" at QB...

They attempted to prepare and got it wrong. When they realized it, they didn’t correct that and this is where they are today, unprepared andwith no one to pass that torch to. Or maybe they haven’t realized it yet…ok

[86WARD]

And how do we know this exactly? Mason was going to sit out 2019 if Ben doesn't get hurt, and was going back to the bench irregardless of how that season turned out. No amount of skill he showed was going to change that. Ben wasn't going to retire and the Steelers owed him too much money.

The original plan was to have Ben finish his years out with the team, and have Mason sit and prepare for a couple of years. Then Ben's elbow exploded and he crashed and burned when he came back. The Steelers DID prepare for times after Ben, but Murphy's Law happened.

Speaking of Jordan Love, he's still riding the pine, and probably won't start for another two seasons. Rodgers is under contract until 2023. Jordan Love's rookie contract will already expire by then. So according to your idea, the torch should be passed by this point, but the franchise QB won't leave. The Packers are doing the only feasible thing they can do. Wait out the end of the Rodgers Era and let Love sit.

We’ve seen the sample. Rudolph is not a franchise QB. Good backup but not a franchise guy. They made an attempt and failed. Leaving them unprepared for this day. The attempt was there, the result failed and it was clear early on that he wasn’t an answer.

[DesertSteel]

We’ve seen the sample. Rudolph is not a franchise QB. Good backup but not a franchise guy. They made an attempt and failed. Leaving them unprepared for this day. The attempt was there, the result failed and it was clear early on that he wasn’t an answer.
The backup plan was to suck for a season, get a high draft pick and select the next Ben. After three games, it appears to be on track.

[Edman]

We’ve seen the sample. Rudolph is not a franchise QB. Good backup but not a franchise guy. They made an attempt and failed. Leaving them unprepared for this day. The attempt was there, the result failed and it was clear early on that he wasn’t an answer.

Is that why the Steelers picked up his fifth year option instead of trading him away to a QB-needy team? There was a lot of them this offseason and the Steelers didn't bite. The Steelers don't need good backups. They need a good QB.


The backup plan was to suck for a season, get a high draft pick and select the next Ben. After three games, it appears to be on track.


Hate to break it to you, but there is no "Next Ben" in the 2022 draft. The Steelers simply need to find a guy and hope he's the right fit.

There will never again be a Steelers QB like Ben.

[Steeler-in-west]

O'Donnell was pretty good and I thought we had a good chance of winning a championship if he stayed in Pittsburgh. Kordell was fun to watch. IDK i guess I wasn't around for the Bradshaw days, my first experience as a Steeler fan was watching Bubby :chuckle:

Brister had his moments (1989 playoff run), Tommy Maddox was comeback player of the year in 2002 if i'm not mistaken (the year before Ben was drafted), so it wasn't all bad. But yeah, it was a franchise quarterback drought between Terry and Ben with more than our fare share of Malone's and Tomczak's.

imo, Build the OL in 2022 and Roll with a FA QB or MR/Haskins in 2022. then go all in to draft the next QB in 2023. And when drafting the Steelers should put accuracy/arm strength and ability to read coverages before athleticism

[Edman]

Ooooh the years between Bradshaw and Ben were painful. More than 20 years of inept QB play. I rather have the car door slam shut on my ding dong than go through those 20 years again

The Steelers of the 90's were far more successful both regular and post-season than the Post-2010 Ben years. They've been to Multiple championship games, and even a Super Bowl in that time. The 2010's teams only won one more playoff game than the 1980's teams, and were just as successful. One Championship game appearance in both decades. The Steelers with Ben, are 3-6 in their last nine playoff games and haven't won since 2016. The Jaguars and Browns have more recent postseason success.

Not to take away anything from Ben, but people really need to stop with this whole "The years between Bradshaw and Ben are so awful" narrative. It takes more than QB to win championships.

[DesertSteel]

The Steelers of the 90's were far more successful both regular and post-season than the Post-2010 Ben years. They've been to Multiple championship games, and even a Super Bowl in that time. The 2010's teams only won one more playoff game than the 1980's teams, and were just as successful. One Championship game appearance in both decades. The Steelers with Ben, are 3-6 in their last nine playoff games and haven't won since 2016. The Jaguars and Browns have more recent postseason success.

Not to take away anything from Ben, but people really need to stop with this whole "The years between Bradshaw and Ben are so awful" narrative. It takes more than QB to win championships.
This is a very valid point.

[Mojouw]

The Steelers of the 90's were far more successful both regular and post-season than the Post-2010 Ben years. They've been to Multiple championship games, and even a Super Bowl in that time. The 2010's teams only won one more playoff game than the 1980's teams, and were just as successful. One Championship game appearance in both decades. The Steelers with Ben, are 3-6 in their last nine playoff games and haven't won since 2016. The Jaguars and Browns have more recent postseason success.

Not to take away anything from Ben, but people really need to stop with this whole "The years between Bradshaw and Ben are so awful" narrative. It takes more than QB to win championships.

Sure. But it is a FAR more QB centric league now than then.

I can’t think of a recent annual playoff team with an O’Donnell or Brister level QB.

Maybe the Jimmy G Niners?

[Edman]

Sure. But it is a FAR more QB centric league now than then.

I can’t think of a recent annual playoff team with an O’Donnell or Brister level QB.

Maybe the Jimmy G Niners?

Jared Goff, Ryan Tannehill, Baker Mayfield, to name a few, we even have a Kordell Stewart clone in Lamar Jackson.

[86WARD]

Is that why the Steelers picked up his fifth year option instead of trading him away to a QB-needy team? There was a lot of them this offseason and the Steelers didn't bite. The Steelers don't need good backups. They need a good QB.


Exactly. No one would’ve traded for Rudolph and they don’t have a successor in line after Ben.

[86WARD]

The backup plan was to suck for a season, get a high draft pick and select the next Ben. After three games, it appears to be on track.

I’m good with that plan…lol. I don’t think this next draft will have a Ben. I mean even the current class isn’t doing well. Not even a little bit…

[Crow-Magnon]

Jared Goff, Ryan Tannehill, Baker Mayfield, to name a few, we even have a Kordell Stewart clone in Lamar Jackson.

I do not think Lamar Jackson is a “Kordell Stewart” clone by any stretch of the imagination. Jackson is now 34-12 as a quarterback. Stewart ended his career rushing for 2,874 yards. Jackson now has 3,157 yards in much less time.

I wa skeptical about Jackson for some time. I’m not anymore. He’s putting the ball downfield. Accurately. Had Brown not dropped three passes he would have had almost 400 yards passing and 3 or 4 TD’s. The man’s a baller. Especially without a true #1 WR.

[Mojouw]

Jared Goff, Ryan Tannehill, Baker Mayfield, to name a few, we even have a Kordell Stewart clone in Lamar Jackson.

Ok. So the guy one of the most creative offensive play callers in the league couldn’t wait to move on from. Two guys that can get you to the wild card each year. And a unicorn athlete.

That’s not a real good collection of choices.

[Edman]

Ok. So the guy one of the most creative offensive play callers in the league couldn’t wait to move on from. Two guys that can get you to the wild card each year. And a unicorn athlete.

That’s not a real good collection of choices.

Well, what were you honestly expecting? O'Donnell and Bubby Brister-level QB's, so there you have it.

[Mojouw]

Well, what were you honestly expecting? O'Donnell and Bubby Brister-level QB's, so there you have it.

Sure. And that gets you floating around the high end of mediocrity.

I’d rather have bad records to get a cornerstone QB.