Winners and Losers

[RunNGun]

Winners...

Mason Rudolph- Again, I thought MR showed some signs of improvement. He was decisive and made quick reads. He got the ball out on time and with accuracy.

Najee Harris- He's the real deal. He was making something out of nothing on half of his carries. He also had a couple nice runs negated by bad holding calls. He will be Ben's best friend.

Dwayne Haskins- He lead the way to 3 scoring drives. Made some really nice throws that made you understand why he was a 1st round pick. However, he also had a couple mistakes...he didn't know the play on a run and ended up taking a sack for a loss, while also staring down a receiver on another play and throwing a pass that should have been intercepted. Haskins numbers were good, but I'm not overly excited. He had all day to throw in the pocket. A lot of QBs can look good with that much time. I'm anxious to see him with the 1s where the game speeds up.

Jordan Berry- He was great tonight. Berry vs Harvin may be the most interesting battle in camp next to MR vs DH.

2nd half Oline play- The first half was atrocious, but the 3rd stringers came in and got the running game going in the 2nd half and dominated the line of scrimmage.

There was no one that really stood out on defense. No one played great, but no one played terrible either

[Steeler-in-west]

Did Turner play? How did he look?

performance of the o line is the key to the offense (obviously)

[RunNGun]

Did Turner play? How did he look?

performance of the o line is the key to the offense (obviously)

Turner played. I don't know how they looked individually, but as a unit they were terrible. Harris broke off 2 nice runs that were both negated by holding calls. Other than those 2 plays, Harris was getting hit in the backfield most plays, but found a way to make something out of it. They didn't give MR a whole lot of time in the pocket either.

[HollywoodSteel]

I can’t wait to see Najee play a full game. He seems like the kind of runner who will wear down a defense as the game goes on.

[RunNGun]

I can’t wait to see Najee play a full game. He seems like the kind of runner who will wear down a defense as the game goes on.

Reminds me a lot of Bell.

[HollywoodSteel]

I guess you’d have to call Samuels a winner. He was fighting for yards and moving the chains. Especially with Snell injured, Samuels made the most of the opportunity.

[Born2Steel]

How did Patlex Highmuth play?

[RunNGun]

I would call him a winner. He picked up some crucial 1st downs like you mentioned and ran the ball well.

- - - Updated - - -


How did Patlex Highmuth play?

Freiermuth was pretty silent. He was one that got called for holding on one of Harris' long runs.

Highsmith was doing Highsmith things. A few pressures, a few hurries, but no sacks tonight.

[DesertSteel]

I can’t believe Watt had no sacks!!!

[HollywoodSteel]

I can’t believe Watt had no sacks!!!

As good as he is, even Watt has difficulty getting sacks when he doesn’t play.

[Shoes]

PF had some really nice blocks and one good catch that came his way.

[Dwinsgames]

Did Turner play? How did he look?

performance of the o line is the key to the offense (obviously)

Turner played , got called for a hold that brought back a big run from Harris ..

as a unit they were pretty shitty , you could tell they have not played together ( Banner still hasnt ) and Dotson played later on ...

but hey Dan Moore looked really good, Chuks could be in trouble if this trend continues

[Blast Furnace]

Cam Sutton sucked last night! I would consider him a loser and that is not good considering he's a projected starter at DB. I hope they find a gem somewhere in the mix because if Sutton plays that way in the regular season, that will take a safety out of the defensive equation just for the mere fact of having someone over there to help out when he fucks up!

[Edman]

Definitive loser of last night was the starting offensive line. Two holding calls sinking offensive momentum and was seemingly getting worked on every play. They were 2008-2010 levels of awful.

[Blast Furnace]

Turner played , got called for a hold that brought back a big run from Harris ..

as a unit they were pretty shitty , you could tell they have not played together ( Banner still hasnt ) and Dotson played later on ...

but hey Dan Moore looked really good, Chuks could be in trouble if this trend continues

Yeah, I thought Turner didn't look very good but maybe it was because Green started at Center and was on roller skates most of the night. For a dude who has been a pro-bowler, he has been rather underwhelming!

[teegre]

Dan Moore looked really good, Chuks could be in trouble if this trend continues

Indeed :nod: When Moore is in, there’s a noticeable difference. Moore seems to not only play better, but with more “intensity”.

[86WARD]

Any player attempting to play coverage versus a TE was a BIG loser.

[tube517]

Turner played , got called for a hold that brought back a big run from Harris ..

as a unit they were pretty shitty , you could tell they have not played together ( Banner still hasnt ) and Dotson played later on ...

but hey Dan Moore looked really good, Chuks could be in trouble if this trend continues

Dan Moore stood out to me as well.

[RunNGun]

I saw Chuks get whipped on a few occasions

[Mojouw]

So a nasty attitude and bad ass sound bites from the coach aren't enough to make a good line? Huh. Weird.

Hopefully they look better next week.

[RunNGun]

Any player attempting to play coverage versus a TE was a BIG loser.

Agreed. Devin Bush did not impress.

[DesertSteel]

Highsmith was doing Highsmith things. A few pressures, a few hurries, but no sacks tonight.
Looks like he could've got 2-3 sacks in his handful of snaps. Bust!

- - - Updated - - -


Agreed. Devin Bush did not impress.
Agree.

[EzraTank]

As good as he is, even Watt has difficulty getting sacks when he doesn’t play.

No excuse, CUT HIM.

[st33lersguy]

Call me crazy, but maybe waiting until the ccx 7th round of the draft to address the cb position wasn't such a good idea.

Also call me crazy, but doesn't seem like having all these skill position players isn't going to matter one iota if the o-line doesn't perform well

[DesertSteel]

As good as he is, even Watt has difficulty getting sacks when he doesn’t play.
All I hear are excuses!!!

[teegre]

Call me crazy, but maybe waiting until the ccx 7th round of the draft to address the cb position wasn't such a good idea.

Why? Unless it’s a franchise QB, upgrading the skill level of a position MAKES ZERO DIFFERENCE.

Right?

[RunNGun]

Looks like he could've got 2-3 sacks in his handful of snaps. Bust!

- - - Updated - - -


Agree.

I knew you'd have something to say about that. Lol

[DesertSteel]

I knew you'd have something to say about that. Lol
No doubt. And I'll say something with every sack lol. All in good fun.

[pczach]

So a nasty attitude and bad ass sound bites from the coach aren't enough to make a good line? Huh. Weird.

Hopefully they look better next week.



Declaring that the offensive line and the OL coach are a failure after two preseason games with one starter still out because of injury and several others coming off injuries and getting their first action of the season is .ore than a little premature.

Attitude and nastiness are developed over time, and players get their game going by being able to practice because they are healthy, working on technique and cohesion with their position coach, and actually playing in game situations.

What we have seen to this point is only an introduction to the story that is yet to be written.

I contend that last year's OL couldn't have dominated the second half of this game against mostly backups like this young group did with Dotson leading the way.

[Mojouw]

Declaring that the offensive line and the OL coach are a failure after two preseason games with one starter still out because of injury and several others coming off injuries and getting their first action of the season is .ore than a little premature.

Attitude and nastiness are developed over time, and players get their game going by being able to practice because they are healthy, working on technique and cohesion with their position coach, and actually playing in game situations.

What we have seen to this point is only an introduction to the story that is yet to be written.

I contend that last year's OL couldn't have dominated the second half of this game against mostly backups like this young group did with Dotson leading the way.

I didn't declare them a failure or a finished product. But I do think the hype train got slowed down a bit last night. And I think that is just fine. Everyone needed a reality check.

[teegre]

My O-line:

Moore - Dotson - Green - BANNER? - Okorofor

[pczach]

I didn't declare them a failure or a finished product. But I do think the hype train got slowed down a bit last night. And I think that is just fine. Everyone needed a reality check.




But that's just it. I don't need a reality check. This is how football works.

I think most of us that believe in Klemm's message understand that everything doesn't happen overnight. I also truly mean what I said about the second half of last night's game and the play of the OL.

I see some signs of a different attitude and greater effort and desire in that group, and I believe a large portion of that comes from ownership, to management, to head coach, to position coach.

[Born2Steel]

I think everyone was in agreement that we would go through 'growing pains' early. That's all that was.

[Mojouw]

But that's just it. I don't need a reality check. This is how football works.

I think most of us that believe in Klemm's message understand that everything doesn't happen overnight. I also truly mean what I said about the second half of last night's game and the play of the OL.

I see some signs of a different attitude and greater effort and desire in that group, and I believe a large portion of that comes from ownership, to management, to head coach, to position coach.


I think everyone was in agreement that we would go through 'growing pains' early. That's all that was.

I wasn't able to see the game, but from the reports I read there were several troubling signs. Green according to observers "was put on skates" multiple times. Chuks apparently got roasted a few times as well. Apparently against a vanilla scheme.

Attitude, desire, and approach are crucial. But if you are not physically and mentally ready to implement them, then who cares?

Green has a wealth of tools. But he is a smaller center in his rookie year. Most non top 10 or so OL picks need almost an entire season to gain NFL strength and technique. So I do not expect Green to be a finished product. But I also see a version of this where he is unable to start, at all, in 2021.

Dotson is still a mystery box. Which Turner is going to show up? The former Pro-Bowl caliber guy or the guy with bad knees and whatnot?

All I am saying is that I am actually super optimistic about the potential of this o-line group and support every single decision that has been made since the end of last season. But I also acknowledge that as high as the ceiling is...the floor is awfully low as well.

I don't see very much discussion of the floor around these parts.

[pczach]

I wasn't able to see the game, but from the reports I read there were several troubling signs. Green according to observers "was put on skates" multiple times. Chuks apparently got roasted a few times as well. Apparently against a vanilla scheme.

Attitude, desire, and approach are crucial. But if you are not physically and mentally ready to implement them, then who cares?

Green has a wealth of tools. But he is a smaller center in his rookie year. Most non top 10 or so OL picks need almost an entire season to gain NFL strength and technique. So I do not expect Green to be a finished product. But I also see a version of this where he is unable to start, at all, in 2021.

Dotson is still a mystery box. Which Turner is going to show up? The former Pro-Bowl caliber guy or the guy with bad knees and whatnot?

All I am saying is that I am actually super optimistic about the potential of this o-line group and support every single decision that has been made since the end of last season. But I also acknowledge that as high as the ceiling is...the floor is awfully low as well.

I don't see very much discussion of the floor around these parts.



I don't understand how you are commenting on things when you didn't watch the game. They ran the ball at will in the second half.

Watch the game. Watch Dotson playing in the second half as he showed why everyone knows he is the starter if healthy. He may be the best offensive lineman on the team right now.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I don't understand how you are commenting on things when you didn't watch the game. They ran the ball at will in the second half.

Watch the game. Watch Dotson playing in the second half as he showed why everyone knows he is the starter if healthy. He may be the best offensive lineman on the team right now.

STOCK UP

Kevin Dotson

There’s been plenty of hand wrangling about the second-year pro projected to be a first-time starter. And it certainly does raise eyebrows that Dotson hasn’t yet taken first-team reps.

But even in a non-starting role Thursday, Dotson played more snaps (50) than 88 of the other 89 players on the roster. It’s not entirely a coincidence that the Steelers’ offense was at its best during the portion of the game when Dotson was on the field. He was not noticeably beat by a pass rusher, and the running game excelled while the line of scrimmage was controlled.

Even if he’s barely been able to practice so far this camp because of an ankle injury, Thursday night helped allay any fears there might be that Dotson isn’t the starter when the regular season begins — and probably a good one, at that.

https://triblive.com/sports/stock-up-stock-down-among-steelers-after-2nd-preseason-game/

[Mojouw]

I don't understand how you are commenting on things when you didn't watch the game. They ran the ball at will in the second half.

Watch the game. Watch Dotson playing in the second half as he showed why everyone knows he is the starter if healthy. He may be the best offensive lineman on the team right now.

Sorry I didn't have the opportunity to watch an out of market preseason game. It comes down to the same question it has all off-season. What is the trade off for the 2021 Steelers for a better run blocking line and a poorer pass protecting line?

By all accounts I can get my hands on, that is what happened last night - particularly against the Eagles top unit.

Also what does running the ball at will with your back-ups against their back-ups tell us about anything? The Eagles also passed the ball seemingly at will against a version of the Steelers top defensive players? Does that mean the Eagles pass offense will be a well oiled machine this season?

I just don't take it as a forgone conclusion that this o line will be the significant upgrade that we all want it to be. I feel that it can be but I also feel that it could end up being worse.

[pczach]

Sorry I didn't have the opportunity to watch an out of market preseason game. It comes down to the same question it has all off-season. What is the trade off for the 2021 Steelers for a better run blocking line and a poorer pass protecting line?

By all accounts I can get my hands on, that is what happened last night - particularly against the Eagles top unit.

Also what does running the ball at will with your back-ups against their back-ups tell us about anything? The Eagles also passed the ball seemingly at will against a version of the Steelers top defensive players? Does that mean the Eagles pass offense will be a well oiled machine this season?

I just don't take it as a forgone conclusion that this o line will be the significant upgrade that we all want it to be. I feel that it can be but I also feel that it could end up being worse.


I didn't mean to watch the game in a derogatory manner.

I'm not saying you need to get on a plane to get to a market where they broadcast the game. All I'm saying is do what you can to watch a replay, and I think you will realize you've been convinced by reports and opinions of people that just post shit without caring or understanding. They write things to try to look Informed, but to most who know what to look for...they are full of it.

I am not saying the line that started the game played great. What I'm saying is that of the five men that "started" the game, only three will probably be the starters on opening day....and they played with backup quarterbacks.

Just a little perspective.

[Born2Steel]

Why would anyone come on here to talk about the 'floor' of the team?

[Fire Goodell]

Why would anyone come on here to talk about the 'floor' of the team?

With hard work and dedication... I could be excited about us being a 6-11 team :chuckle:

[Born2Steel]

With hard work and dedication... I could be excited about us being a 6-11 team :chuckle:

I think this could be the most mediocre team in history. They may very well give up the exact same number of points as they score for the season. While at the same time gain the exact same number of yards as they allow for the season. Even with a 17 game schedule this team could end up with an odd number of ties and finish the season at .500, 6-6-5. The absolute most middle of the road team in the history of sports.

[Mojouw]

I didn't mean to watch the game in a derogatory manner.

I'm not saying you need to get on a plane to get to a market where they broadcast the game. All I'm saying is do what you can to watch a replay, and I think you will realize you've been convinced by reports and opinions of people that just post shit without caring or understanding. They write things to try to look Informed, but to most who know what to look for...they are full of it.

I am not saying the line that started the game played great. What I'm saying is that of the five men that "started" the game, only three will probably be the starters on opening day....and they played with backup quarterbacks.

Just a little perspective.

I have been able to find any moving pictures breakdowns of the game action yet. But I did find stuff on the Athletic and Steelers Depot - two places I feel are fairly objective and measured in their evaluations - and both said the "starting" offensive line group had a extremely difficult time pass protecting. They also lauded all offensive line units in run blocking.

That is where my trade off comment came in. Several steps forward in one department and perhaps a step back in another? And, again, nothing is a finished product yet and many things can and will change.

But from what I was able to piece together regarding last nights game was that the 2021 Steelers are shaping up to smash you in the run game, but struggle holding up against a pass rush. That could be a problem if one buys the argument that the ball came out last year in less than two seconds because the line couldn't pass protect. Because initial reports are indicating that the 2020 offensive line was a better pass protection unit than the 2021 version has demonstrated so far.

Again it is early in pre-season and who the heck knows? Maybe the coaching staff? But I read on here fairly consistently how bullish everyone is about the offensive line (I'm excited too!) but I just decided to snarkily balance the scales a bit. There is a distinct possibility where this unit struggles for consistency and cohesion for large stretches of the season.

[pczach]

I have been able to find any moving pictures breakdowns of the game action yet. But I did find stuff on the Athletic and Steelers Depot - two places I feel are fairly objective and measured in their evaluations - and both said the "starting" offensive line group had a extremely difficult time pass protecting. They also lauded all offensive line units in run blocking.

That is where my trade off comment came in. Several steps forward in one department and perhaps a step back in another? And, again, nothing is a finished product yet and many things can and will change.

But from what I was able to piece together regarding last nights game was that the 2021 Steelers are shaping up to smash you in the run game, but struggle holding up against a pass rush. That could be a problem if one buys the argument that the ball came out last year in less than two seconds because the line couldn't pass protect. Because initial reports are indicating that the 2020 offensive line was a better pass protection unit than the 2021 version has demonstrated so far.

Again it is early in pre-season and who the heck knows? Maybe the coaching staff? But I read on here fairly consistently how bullish everyone is about the offensive line (I'm excited too!) but I just decided to snarkily balance the scales a bit. There is a distinct possibility where this unit struggles for consistency and cohesion for large stretches of the season.




The way I look at it. Dotson and Banner aren't playing on the starting unit yet....and they may be the two best offensive linemen that we have right now. They are running the ball a little better already, and that's without two starters who are big, strong run blockers and a starting QB on the field. I just think think that there are signs that they are going to be able to do some things in the run game.

If they become a very good run blocking unit, that could help your QB out quite a bit by slowing down the rush. Just ask Ryan Tannehill.

They haven't accomplished anything yet. There is no doubt about that. There is much to prove, but I think they are on the right track. I want to see them all on the field and working together over a few games to really see how they play and the progress they make.

I look forward to seeing how they grow as a group.

[st33lersguy]

Why? Unless it’s a franchise QB, upgrading the skill level of a position MAKES ZERO DIFFERENCE.

Right?

Reading Comprehension Skills, you should try learning them :rolleyes:

[hawaiiansteeler]

Reading Comprehension Skills, you should try learning them :rolleyes:

https://i.imgflip.com/1109b2.jpg

[Steeler-in-west]

Last years o line was done, pouncey retired, DD was done physically, AV was continuously getting beat and didn’t have it anymore. They even upped the passing tempo so Ben would not get killed, they’re running game was non existent, changes had to be made. The line is now younger with a new coach and a more aggressive attitude. You could easily make the argument that they will prove to be better than last years line across the board, (including TE). I think the Steelers expect considerable improvement from last year

I don’t think we can make fair assessments of the line until the games start counting

[teegre]

Reading Comprehension Skills, you should try learning them :rolleyes:

Deal… as long as you promise to stop being so obtuse.

[86WARD]

First series of the Eagles drive, the Eagles had at least one guy wide open on each play. Two drops lead to the FG. The pass coverage was non-existent. Against a team like KC, that’s an easy 7 points.

Second series of the Eagles, Quez Watkins has a 98 Yard TD...easy...with a decent throw. Another open receiver. Second play, Ertz wide open. Third pass play was nice pressure by Highsmith. Fourth pass play, Hurts opted to run.

More of the same followed during Flacco’s reps.

Summation: Pass coverage was non-existent throughout. Definitely something that needs to be addressed. Hopefully it’s just preseason rust/scheme. Big Loser for the day.


If Trai Turner makes his block on Harris’ first carry, there’s a really good chance that that is possibly a 73-Yard TD with one guy to beat.

Harris’ second carry of the game gained 6 but possibly more had both LBs just not shot the gaps at the first sight of a run. A play action roll out there is going to go for a big gain. Harris is just a beast. I think I’ve seen enough of him in the preseason...lol.

Second week in a row that Rudolph has a nice drive going and a turnover/penalty take the wind out of the sail.

JuJu was solid. Very solid.

Javon Hargrave was a big disturbance out there. Miss that guy.