Our offensive line scares me

[EzraTank]

Going into this season our offensive lines scares the crap out of me. If the line can play decent I like our chances but from what others are writing about camp it appears as if N.Harris is going to be running for his life this year.

Of course nothing really matters until a real snap but still.

Someone that has watched camp calm me down.

[teegre]

From what I’m hearing…

Dotson & Turner may not be very good at pulling. But, straight-line, Dotson is a people mover (and Turner used to be pretty good).

Green looks like a steal. He can move and is immovable (uses his leverage to negate the NT).

Until his injury, Banner was the starter at RT last year. They’ve been cautious with him.

Okorofor seems to be a better playing at LT than he was at RT.

From what I’m hearing, there’s a LOT of pre-snap movement… and the players aren’t “used” to it. Ergo, they look sloppy. But, when they get into position, they can indeed block “with purpose”.

[DesertSteel]

From what I've read, I think they're trying to be scary.

[st33lersguy]

With 4 new offensive line starters, I think anyone who doesn't expect there to be problems early on at least are extremely idealistic at best. Hopefully, they gel before the end of the season

[RunNGun]

With 4 new offensive line starters, I think anyone who doesn't expect there to be problems early on at least are extremely idealistic at best. Hopefully, they gel before the end of the season

Agreed. I see the running game starting slow in the first half of the season, but I also see it catching stride in the second half. It has to, or Canada will have a short lived job.

[Hawkman]

My thoughts, if Ben didn’t call it quits, knowing he has a completely new OL, he must have some comfort factor. I would be so out of there if I thought I was going to get killed at 39 years old. So I will wait and see……with a certain amount of optimism?!!

[Fire Goodell]

But Najee has the suddenness and glide, and the size to beat off defenders

[Bluecoat96]

But Najee has the suddenness and glide, and the size to beat off defendersLol you said "beat off"

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Hawkman]

Lol you said "beat off"

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

I know it’s immature……but I laughed at that too.

[cubanstogie]

hopefully the starters can get on field at same time at some point. My expectations aren’t as high this year so a winning season and playoffs will be a bonus. Still excited for football though.

[teegre]

There will be growing pains as they learn to play together, but individually these five players are an upgrade over last season’s starting five.

I get that O-line is more about the gestalt than the structure… but, I’m confident that they will indeed gel.

[Born2Steel]

I'll repeat my BOLD prediction from an earlier thread...."The Steelers OL will finish in the top5 in 2021".

[Steeler-in-west]

AV and Pouncey looked done, DD was playing hurt and is done

They saw the need to get a new line coach so coaching must’ve been a problem last season

They’re going to be noticeably better than last year

not Worried about Dotson and Chuks, nor Banner, he played well before he got hurt

Question is will Turner return to his pro bowl level?

[one side only]

From what I’m hearing…

Dotson & Turner may not be very good at pulling. But, straight-line, Dotson is a people mover (and Turner used to be pretty good).

Green looks like a steal. He can move and is immovable (uses his leverage to negate the NT).

Until his injury, Banner was the starter at RT last year. They’ve been cautious with him.

Okorofor seems to be a better playing at LT than he was at RT.

From what I’m hearing, there’s a LOT of pre-snap movement… and the players aren’t “used” to it. Ergo, they look sloppy. But, when they get into position, they can indeed block “with purpose”.

What is your source for any of this?

Dotson hasn't played a snap. How could have anyone made an evaluation of his pulling ability? He appears to still be in the doghouse, since Rashaad Coward has taken all the first team reps.

Haven't seen or heard anything with regard to Trai Turner's pulling ability. With most of the drills going against air, it is very difficult to tell if anyone is doing what is expected.

People that I know personally that have been at camp say Kendrick Green looks raw at Center, and has had more than one bad snap. Opinions are like . . . well, you know, and everyone has one, so these fan reports from acquaintances of mine should be taken with a grain of salt. Except for the bad snaps, which have been reported. Hard to classify a third rounder as a steal anyway.

Chuks also hasn't played a snap. What you said sounds like a loose interpretation of what Kevin Colbert said in an interview about last year's battle for the Right Tackle position, ultimately won by Banner.

Nobody from last year's line has practiced much, if at all. Nobody could be used to pre-snap movement. The line looks sloppy because there has been a lot of shuffling of positions, including a Tackle who won't make the team (John Leglue) taking reps at Center. The fact that there is a lot of pre-snap movement in Matt Canada's offense is obvious. We knew that before camp started.

Everything that happens at camp is covered ad nauseum and repeated in broadcast, print and internet media. What could you possibly be "hearing" that we haven't read about, and from whom are you "hearing" things?

I was there on the 31st. It is very difficult to see what is going on from the seats at Heinz Field, as compared to the grass hill at St. Vincent's. Four different groups practicing or going through drills at the same time adds to that difficulty. Without the benefit of knowing what the coaches want to see in a particular drill, it is difficult for the untrained and unknowing eye to discern if a player is performing up to expectations or not. The one-handed catches, interceptions, and big hits are exceptions of course. There have been some "ooh and ahh" moments from players who will getting on with their life's work soon.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers offensive line remains a huge issue

Many Steelers fans wonder if the offensive line has really been looking as bad as some of the media has said that it has so far during training camp. Let me confirm that this is a massive area of concern – the biggest on the team, in fact.

Pittsburgh’s offense suffered through poor offensive line play in 2020 and finished 32nd in the NFL in rushing as a result. While the Steelers should theoretically be better at running the football this year, the offensive line is more concerning to me than it has been in a very long time.

Rookie offensive tackle Dan Moore Jr. and center Kendrick Green have been taking nearly all of the first-team reps, but the results have been less than desirable. Moore has been routinely torched by Alex Highsmith in OL vs DL drills, while Green has had his fair share of trouble trying to handle Tyson Alualu.

In addition, Kevin Dotson and Chukwuma Okorafor have yet to practice with the team and have been doing individual workouts on the sideline while Zach Banner has been limited in team sessions. Even if Pittsburgh’s offensive line does get healthy before the start of the season, this unit has four new starters who haven’t even played a snap together yet. This could get ugly.

https://stillcurtain.com/2021/08/04/5-observations-steelers-training-camp/4/

[86WARD]

My biggest fear about this team and have little to no confidence right now that it will be good. Hopefully some of the more positive thinkers are correct here.

[teegre]

From what I’m hearing…

Dotson & Turner may not be very good at pulling. But, straight-line, Dotson is a people mover (and Turner used to be pretty good).

Green looks like a steal. He can move and is immovable (uses his leverage to negate the NT).

Until his injury, Banner was the starter at RT last year. They’ve been cautious with him.

Okorofor seems to be a better playing at LT than he was at RT.

From what I’m hearing, there’s a LOT of pre-snap movement… and the players aren’t “used” to it. Ergo, they look sloppy. But, when they get into position, they can indeed block “with purpose”.

@one_side_only

My sources are eclectic. Some beat writers (Fittipaldi, Pruista, Dunlap, Wexell, etc.). Others are bloggers with field passes (Farabaugh, Kozora, etc). A few are NFL analysts (Baldinger, former O-linemen).

GUARDS STRUGGLING WITH PULLING: Every report states this. They also like how the individual linemen are “finishing” blocks (which is what I meant by blocking “with purpose”). My statement about them gelling once they become more familiar with Canada’s offense is hopeful conjecture on my part.

DOTSON: Baldinger (and a few other analysts) highlighted Dotson last season, saying he’s a people mover. He was PFF’s starting guard on their all-rookie team.

TURNER: He has many Pro Bowl appearances; he used to be good… and I am hopeful that he regains his form.

GREEN: Pick a name out of a hat; they are all saying the same things about our new center.

OKORAFOR: Colbert said it last year and this year. Many stated it (even people on here) throughout the season. Nothing has changed in that regard.

BANNER: He did indeed win the starting RT job at the beginning of last season, and they have not been rushing him onto the field.

SUMMATION: Maybe I wasn’t clear. Part of my “prediction” comes from last year’s performances… and not solely from this year’s camp.

[steel striker]

Yeah that's why a lot of so called experts don't expect much from the Steelers this year. I'm more of a wait and see type of person.

[hawaiiansteeler]

tonight's probable starting OL:

Moore Jr. - Coward - Green - Turner - Haeg

[Fire Goodell]

well who's ready to watch the 3rd/4th string tonight? lol still excited, cause football :chuckle:

I wanna see Haskins / Rudolph play

[Born2Steel]

well who's ready to watch the 3rd/4th string tonight? lol still excited, cause football :chuckle:

I wanna see Haskins / Rudolph play

I think we will see a lot of 2's and 3's playing for solidifying that 2nd string. Late in the game it could be anything goes.

[HollywoodSteel]

tonight's probable starting OL:

Moore Jr. - Coward - Green - Turner - Haeg

I’m glad Ben isn’t playing.

It will be interesting to see what Najee can do behind this ragtag group of scamps.

[RunNGun]

I’m glad Ben isn’t playing.

It will be interesting to see what Najee can do behind this ragtag group of scamps.

Kinda hoping Najee only gets a series or 2. Don't want to see him take too many hits, but definitely excited to see him play.

[86WARD]

Kinda hoping Najee only gets a series or 2. Don't want to see him take too many hits, but definitely excited to see him play.

Anything more than 2 carries is too much…

[RunNGun]

Anything more than 2 carries is too much…

Well I expect back to back 3 and outs on the opening drives, so you might be right on there. But hey, maybe the light has finally turned on for Mason Rudolph. Ha!

[Fire Goodell]

cut samuels

[hawaiiansteeler]

cut samuels

he's as good as gone.

[teegre]

On one of Harris’ runs, Green blocked a guy/pushed a guy 20 yards out of the way.

Did he need to? No
Is that his mindset? Yes :lol:

[HollywoodSteel]

On one of Harris’ runs, Green blocked a guy/pushed a guy 20 yards out of the way.

Did he need to? No
Is that his mindset? Yes :lol:

Why didn’t Najee follow him? Would have been a 20 yard gain.

[teegre]

Speaking of O-lines, the Chiefs got a steal in R6: Trey Smith

Medical concerns scared teams off (and they might still affect him), but Smith is making the Chiefs D-line look like ragdolls. Smith at OG, plus the free agent additions of Orlando Brown and Joe Thuney, and drafting Creed Humphrey… the Chiefs likely have the BEST O-line in football. YIKES!!!

[Born2Steel]

Speaking of O-lines, the Chiefs got a steal in R6: Trey Smith

Medical concerns scared teams off (and they might still affect him), but Smith is making the Chiefs D-line look like ragdolls. Smith at OG, plus the free agent additions of Orlando Brown and Joe Thuney, and drafting Creed Humphrey… the Chiefs likely have the BEST O-line in football. YIKES!!!

It wasn't just medical concerns, Smith has issues with blood clots. He probably shouldn't even be playing.

[Shoes]

I’m glad Ben isn’t playing.

It will be interesting to see what Najee can do behind this ragtag group of scamps.

Oh you don’t have to worry about that! He will do the 5 regular season games to warm up. :chuckle:

[HollywoodSteel]

Speaking of O-lines, the Chiefs got a steal in R6: Trey Smith

Medical concerns scared teams off (and they might still affect him), but Smith is making the Chiefs D-line look like ragdolls. Smith at OG, plus the free agent additions of Orlando Brown and Joe Thuney, and drafting Creed Humphrey… the Chiefs likely have the BEST O-line in football. YIKES!!!

How do the Chiefs still have money for those FA? When does Mahomes start making $300 million a year so they can’t pay anyone else?

[hawaiiansteeler]

Offensive Line

Stat Line: 1 sack surrendered, 76 yards rushing, 175 yards passing

Some might look at the offensive line on the winners list and say, “What?! Really?” However, I believe the offensive line, which consisted of Dan Moore Jr., B.J. Finney, Kendrick Green, Rashaad Coward and Joe Haeg, did an ‘above the line’ job of both creating running lanes and protecting the quarterback. What was obvious was not just a commitment to the run, but the line getting some push. For once you saw the offensive line firing off the ball and moving defenders backwards. A nice change in philosophy from last season. The aggressive nature of the line was on display, and it was glorious.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2021/8/6/22611307/8-winners-and-3-losers-after-the-steelers-16-3-win-over-the-cowboys-pressley-harvin-ulysees-gilbert

[86WARD]

I liked Harris’ power. He drove piles of people and got 1-2-3 extra yards.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Offensive Line

Stat Line: 1 sack surrendered, 76 yards rushing, 175 yards passing

Some might look at the offensive line on the winners list and say, “What?! Really?” However, I believe the offensive line, which consisted of Dan Moore Jr., B.J. Finney, Kendrick Green, Rashaad Coward and Joe Haeg, did an ‘above the line’ job of both creating running lanes and protecting the quarterback. What was obvious was not just a commitment to the run, but the line getting some push. For once you saw the offensive line firing off the ball and moving defenders backwards. A nice change in philosophy from last season. The aggressive nature of the line was on display, and it was glorious.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2021/8/6/22611307/8-winners-and-3-losers-after-the-steelers-16-3-win-over-the-cowboys-pressley-harvin-ulysees-gilbert

I thought Kendrick Green looked good, as did Haeg and Dotson. Aviante Collins was aggressive on down blocks and some combination blocks that I saw and Chaz Green really moved defenders in the run game with the #2's in the run game and looked good in pass pro.

Will be a decent group of maybe 9 linemen that make the53

- - - Updated - - -


Offensive Line

Stat Line: 1 sack surrendered, 76 yards rushing, 175 yards passing

Some might look at the offensive line on the winners list and say, “What?! Really?” However, I believe the offensive line, which consisted of Dan Moore Jr., B.J. Finney, Kendrick Green, Rashaad Coward and Joe Haeg, did an ‘above the line’ job of both creating running lanes and protecting the quarterback. What was obvious was not just a commitment to the run, but the line getting some push. For once you saw the offensive line firing off the ball and moving defenders backwards. A nice change in philosophy from last season. The aggressive nature of the line was on display, and it was glorious.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2021/8/6/22611307/8-winners-and-3-losers-after-the-steelers-16-3-win-over-the-cowboys-pressley-harvin-ulysees-gilbert

I thought Kendrick Green looked good, as did Haeg and Dotson. Aviante Collins was aggressive on down blocks and some combination blocks that I saw and Chaz Green really moved defenders in the run game with the #2's in the run game and looked good in pass pro.

Will be a decent group of maybe 9 linemen that make the53

[Rotorhead]

What I saw of the OL made me more optimistic. There will be some early season growing pains I think as they will need to learn each other’s tendencies, but after on preseason game, without all of the starters playing and against mostly 2nd stringers, they did well.

[pczach]

Do you want to know what I liked about the OL? The effort.

Over the last few years,, the lack of effort in run blocking has been disgraceful. Watching past Pro Bowl caliber players not staying on their blocks and becoming spectators to another unsuccessful running play as they almost never even tried to push the pile infuriated me.

Watching young men be aggressive at the point of attack and playing to just after the whistle is refreshing and encouraging. I loved the obvious mindset of being more physical manifesting in the very first game under a different OL coach and OC. I hope it is the beginning of the new normal.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Alex Kozora
@Alex_Kozora

First team OL on-air. Okorafor-Coward-Green-Turner-Banner. #Steelers

https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp %7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[86WARD]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210808/436780fc56d9b0b7bbed53348aff1a06.jpg

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210808/436780fc56d9b0b7bbed53348aff1a06.jpg

More great reporting by DK on Farts.

[teegre]

I have yet to read a report, tweet, or article wherein a reporter, writer, or blogger has anything negative to say about Kendrick Green. In fact, the reviews say that he just keeps getting better every single day.

[EzraTank]

I have yet to read a report, tweet, or article wherein a reporter, writer, or blogger has anything negative to say about Kendrick Green. In fact, the reviews say that he just keeps getting better every single day.

Yes but I heard he hates babies and kittens, so there is that.

[86WARD]

More great reporting by DK on Farts.

Seriously. Is it just 100% made up? I’d like to see the whole process in coming up with that story (or tweet).

[tube517]

Yes but I heard he hates babies and kittens, so there is that.

Kendrick Green likes BMW's. :chuckle:

p/BpfU1dalSs7

[Craic]

Offensive Line

Stat Line: 1 sack surrendered, 76 yards rushing, 175 yards passing

Some might look at the offensive line on the winners list and say, “What?! Really?” However, I believe the offensive line, which consisted of Dan Moore Jr., B.J. Finney, Kendrick Green, Rashaad Coward and Joe Haeg, did an ‘above the line’ job of both creating running lanes and protecting the quarterback. What was obvious was not just a commitment to the run, but the line getting some push. For once you saw the offensive line firing off the ball and moving defenders backwards. A nice change in philosophy from last season. The aggressive nature of the line was on display, and it was glorious.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2021/8/6/22611307/8-winners-and-3-losers-after-the-steelers-16-3-win-over-the-cowboys-pressley-harvin-ulysees-gilbert

If they're pushing backwards instead of sidways, I wonder if they're moving away from zone blocking. It very may be a change in philosophy.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

If they're pushing backwards instead of sidways, I wonder if they're moving away from zone blocking. It very may be a change in philosophy.

Are you referring to Inside Zone Blocking or Outside Zone Blocking?

[hawaiiansteeler]

Are you referring to Inside Zone Blocking or Outside Zone Blocking?

I'm not an OL guy but would love to learn.

can you please describe the difference to me?

[Mojouw]

I remain optimistic and have been since the end of last season.

But...I won't really know what to think until the first time the starting five moves a real NFL front off the ball and handles an actual all out pass rush with twists, stunts, and what-not.

On paper...it should be a better offensive line than last years. Whatever is lost in pass protection will be off-set by a more rugged approach to the run game. Also, the team will have to adjust their "go to" stuff. Turner is able to move people but he isn't going to run around like DeCastro. Green is athletic and mobile but will he look like a young Pouncey? Likely not. Dotson can pull...but maybe not at an elite level. So a team that used to like to get its running game going by pulling one or more interior lineman will likely have to do it other ways. Perhaps actually using Derek Watt? Hopefully Radar and Friermuth can block more than a gust of wind...

That's the thing. And we haven't even got to pass protection. We, as fans, just won't really know until the starting five faces live fire so to speak. Here is hoping they look good throughout the preseason...but I won't be fully aboard the hype train until they put some strong regular season tape down.

[Rotorhead]

Well to good news is they have to practice against one of the top DLs in the league, so while not game speed, they will be facing top talent. The bad news is we probably have 3 of the top 5 DLs in our division, that will be a big learning curve.

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51370873019_4679ec5def.jpg

[teegre]

REPORTER: Is it safe to say that Kendrick Green is your starter…

TOMLIN: (coy smile)

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

REPORTER: Is it safe to say that Kendrick Green is your starter…

TOMLIN: (coy smile)

"But he is a guard, he is undersized, he has only played center 3 times in college, he doesnt do cartwheels in overalls". :sarcasm2:

The young man has an edge, a nastiness and has the athletic ability, plus put up 225lbs 25 times, so he knows where the weight room is. I think he is going to be a tone setter on the O line for the next 10 years.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I'm not an OL guy but would love to learn.

can you please describe the difference to me?

Sure an "Outside Zone" (or Wide Zone or Stretch play), is when the entire O line takes a lateral step and sometimes a bit more of a pull step like a sweep, to one side all at the snap of the ball. The goal is that they take 3 steps (1 lateral, 2, other foot, 3 drive step) and with 2 more steps should engage the defender, with their mind made up if they are going to reach the defenders outside shoulder and block him inside, like a sweep or toss. OR do they block the inside shoulder and push the defender to the sideline.

Essentially, in 5 steps, the O line has a "Hat" on one side of the defender's "Hat" or the other and its the job of the RB to read the block of the O lineman and pick that hole.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With "Inside Zone" the general goal is to use double team blocks initially on the linemen that are on the line of scrimmage...and then one of the double teaming linemen comes off the block after displacing the down lineman and goes to block a 2nd level defender. For instance, on a inside zone vs a 4-3, depending on alignment, the G and T will double the DT, while the TE or Hback will seal out the DE. The backside DT gets doubled by the backside G and C. Of both of those double teams, one lineman will scrape 2nd level to block the MLB and SAM LB, which creates an option for the RB to most often run between the B gap or A gap.

Some inside zone schemes purposely put a backside cutback block, so the RB has to read if he wants to run B gap, A gap, or the backside cutback lane.

So it may be easy for most of us to recognize an Outside Zone play, but you have to know what to look for on an Inside Zone play and see that its designed for the RB to make a read of multiple holes, not just try and run it down a designed gap like in a man blocking scheme. In the past, the Steelers rarely ran outside zone, but I have seen them do it. They mixed in some Inside zone a lot more.

[teegre]

"But he is a guard, he is undersized, he has only played center 3 times in college, he doesnt do cartwheels in overalls". :sarcasm2:

The young man has an edge, a nastiness and has the athletic ability, plus put up 225lbs 25 times, so he knows where the weight room is. I think he is going to be a tone setter on the O line for the next 10 years.

Oh, I’m still a fan of Dickerson. :wink02:

[HollywoodSteel]

Per Alex Kozora, Dotson now playing with the first team O-line in practice. I imagine that’s how it will be going forward.

[teegre]

I have posted a slightly different O-line elsewhere (with Moore at LT). But, with Tomlin’s comment about Moore moving to RT and/or Chukks being the LT, here is my revised O-line.

Chukks - Dotson - Green - *** - Moore

***I have put Banner here before, but something tells me he isn’t as healthy as they want him to be. I know, I know, Banner is an OT, but I want him on the field (and Moore seems to be destined to start at one of the tackle spots). Turner would be the default.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I have posted a slightly different O-line elsewhere (with Moore at LT). But, with Tomlin’s comment about Moore moving to RT and/or Chukks being the LT, here is my revised O-line.

Chukks - Dotson - Green - *** - Moore

***I have put Banner here before, but something tells me he isn’t as healthy as they want him to be. I know, I know, Banner is an OT, but I want him on the field (and Moore seems to be destined to start at one of the tackle spots). Turner would be the default.

I like it. Its like the Marvel Smith situation where they played him at RT to get used to the speed of the NFL, before putting him over to LT. Dan Moore Jr has the size, length and quick feet to play LT, but his college technique didnt look great, so I think throwing him in to protect blindside would be premature.

The thing is, that Moore likes to finish in the run game, as does Dotson, as does Green. Good mentality to have. I like Banner too, but he may not be ready for a while as you mention and for that reason I still think Haeg makes it, as he has looked proficient out there at RT. I still think Turner gets the RG nod, but I also like what I have seen in games of Aviante Collins and Chaz Green (although they are playing vs the 2's most times)

[86WARD]

Kendrick Green is allegedly having major problems handling the bull rush.

[teegre]

Kendrick Green is allegedly having major problems handling the bull rush.

Fletcher Cox bull rushed him in the Eagles game. Fletcher Cox does that to people. (Cox is a top five DT.)

Alualu bull rushed him in practice… but, it was only once (from what I’ve read).

[Steeler-in-west]

Do you want to know what I liked about the OL? The effort.

Over the last few years,, the lack of effort in run blocking has been disgraceful. Watching past Pro Bowl caliber players not staying on their blocks and becoming spectators to another unsuccessful running play as they almost never even tried to push the pile infuriated me.

Watching young men be aggressive at the point of attack and playing to just after the whistle is refreshing and encouraging. I loved the obvious mindset of being more physical manifesting in the very first game under a different OL coach and OC. I hope it is the beginning of the new normal.

this is a good point, last years line wore down and got worse as the season progressed. This year the line will get better as the season goes on. Hopefully when we make it to the playoffs they’ll be firing on all cylinders

[dislocatedday]

Fletcher Cox bull rushed him in the Eagles game. Fletcher Cox does that to people. (Cox is a top five DT.)

Alualu bull rushed him in practice… but, it was only once (from what I’ve read).

Exactly....It seems like some media pundits think Green is weak because Fletcher Cox got the best of him. Fletcher is an all-pro veteran. It reminds of an episode of Hard Knocks a few years ago where JJ Watt was abusing Brandon Scherff of the Redskins when Scherff was a rookie, and people were saying Scherff is soft and weak because of that. Scherff turned out to be a great guard.

[teegre]

Exactly....It seems like some media pundits think Green is weak because Fletcher Cox got the best of him. Fletcher is an all-pro veteran. It reminds of an episode of Hard Knocks a few years ago where JJ Watt was abusing Brandon Scherff of the Redskins when Scherff was a rookie, and people were saying Scherff is soft and weak because of that. Scherff turned out to be a great guard.

That reminds me of a story.

Back before the 1974 draft, a scout swore by an undersized ILB from Kent State named Jack Lambert. The scout saw Lambert playing football on a parking lot, and afterwards, saw Lambert picking pieces of gravel out of his bloody knees. The scout KNEW that Lambert was a unicorn… and pushed hard for Noll to draft Lambert in R2.

Fast-forward to training camp, where Lambert is doing 1:1 drills with an unheralded, late-round O-lineman. Attempt after attempt led to the same result: Lambert getting abused by the O-lineman. Noll glares at the scout, and tells Joe Greene to get in there and show Lambert how it’s done.

Greene lines up… and gets stalemated by the rookie, unheralded O-lineman. They run the drill again with the same result. Noll turns to the unheralded, late-round pick and asks him his name. To which the rookie answers:

“Mike Webster”

[RunNGun]

Exactly....It seems like some media pundits think Green is weak because Fletcher Cox got the best of him. Fletcher is an all-pro veteran. It reminds of an episode of Hard Knocks a few years ago where JJ Watt was abusing Brandon Scherff of the Redskins when Scherff was a rookie, and people were saying Scherff is soft and weak because of that. Scherff turned out to be a great guard.

Brandon Scherff once hit a 450ft bomb off of me in high school baseball. I may bring that up after every time someone mentions his name.

[86WARD]

Brandon Scherff once hit a 450ft bomb off of me in high school baseball. I may bring that up after every time someone mentions his name.

Fuck him then. Hopefully you plunked him next at bat. [emoji23]

[teegre]

The “starting” O-line is listed as:

Chukks - Dotson - Green - Turner - Banner

Banner has looked GOOD out there. Moore has moved to RT, because they want him to get familiar with playing either side. Chukks has looked great, but also looked abysmal. If he struggles, I could see Moore taking over.

Green is impressive. Turner will be good in short-distance opportunities; I’m not sure he’ll be great with all of Canada’s movement. The two of them are like opposite sides of a coin. (One’s strength is the other one’s area of concern.)

Dotson is our best O-lineman. Period.

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51397015166_3646dd9efd_c.jpg

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51397015166_3646dd9efd_c.jpg

I like that he is getting so many reps and that he appears to have improved his pass sets from what we saw in college. I think there is a good chance that Moore can play some RT if Banner isnt ready to go and it will be good experience going forward. I still think putting him on Ben's blind side as a rookie wont be great, but both he and Green look to be good adds to the O line.

So if we think of 3 draft picks of Dotson, Green, Moore in the past 2 years, its looking like all 3 of them can be part of the starting 5 by next season at the latest. Contrary to the title of this thread, the Offensive line gives me reasons to be optimistic that there will be some good blocking going forward.

[teegre]

Moore will be a starter by year two.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Moore will be a starter by year two.

What side? Do they let Banner walk and Moore plays the RT, or do they let Okorafor go and put him at LT? I need a summation!

[tube517]

What side? Do they let Banner walk and Moore plays the RT, or do they let Okorafor go and put him at LT? I need a summation!

Summations should always come with a story. :nono: :chuckle:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Summations should always come with a story. :nono: :chuckle:

Lets wait for it. I expect nothing less, but am jones'n for a summation.

[teegre]

What side? Do they let Banner walk and Moore plays the RT, or do they let Okorafor go and put him at LT? I need a summation!

Scenario 1: Chukks has a shaky (up & down) first half of the 2021 season. Moore takes over mid-November.

Scenario 2: Chukks plays pretty well all season, but is allowed to leave via free agency. Since LTs are a hot commodity, Chukks gets way more than he is “worth”. The Steelers go with the younger, cheaper, and better player: Moore. Oh, and the Steelers pick up a R4 comp pick on the process.

SUMMATION:
Banner is the RT. He’s good at that position, and has ingratiated himself with the community. Moore is currently learning to play RT in order to make him a better all-around player… but, eventually, Moore will be our starting LT.

[86WARD]

The OT situation is really scary…

[HollywoodSteel]

I really hope Banner is healthy, because so far Moore is a much better LT than RT.

[HollywoodSteel]

I read that Banner didn’t practice, but Chuks was on the right and Moore was on the left. It looks like they’re trying to figure out the best configuration if Banner can’t play week one.

[Born2Steel]

Young, inexperienced OL that hasn't played together as a unit in an actual game yet, and only a handful of starts amongst them. What's there to be nervous about?

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers Insider Has Troubling Comment On Offensive Line

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/steelers-insider-troubling-comment-on-offensive-line

[teegre]

Steelers Insider Has Troubling Comment On Offensive Line

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/steelers-insider-troubling-comment-on-offensive-line

Fillipponi is almost always wrong.

[Rotorhead]

Fillipponi is almost always wrong.

Well, he “hasn’t talked to anyone in the Steelers Org that thinks it will be good . . .” I read that as either he didn’t talk to anyone, or didn’t ask about the OL haha.

[teegre]

Well, he “hasn’t talked to anyone in the Steelers Org that thinks it will be good . . .” I read that as either he didn’t talk to anyone, or didn’t ask about the OL haha.

Bingo!!!

Andrew Fillippponi is Simone from Ferris Beuller.

[HollywoodSteel]

Fillipponi is almost always wrong.

I think his premise in comparing it to last year’s line is wrong.

Given AV’s struggle in the run game and overall diminishing skills, LT could be an upgrade this year, possibly a slight downgrade, but most likely a wash.

Dotson is an absolute upgrade.

Anyone we play at center is an upgrade given Pouncey’s diminished skills last year.

Turner is almost definitely an upgrade to a non-healthy DeCastro.

RT we can call a wash. Maybe an upgrade if Banner is healthy

So I’m not saying we’ll have a top 5 Oline or anything. It’s mostly unknown how well these guys will play together. But overall I think it’s totally irresponsible to imply that this year’s line will be objectively worse than last year’s.

- - - Updated - - -


Well, he “hasn’t talked to anyone in the Steelers Org that thinks it will be good . . .” I read that as either he didn’t talk to anyone, or didn’t ask about the OL haha.

Well I haven’t talked to anyone in the Steelers organization that thinks it will be bad.

My statement is equally true.

[teegre]

@HollywoodSteel

100%

Even if every other O-line position is a wash (and I think most will be a slight upgrade at the minimum), Dotson starting is a HUGE upgrade. That alone translates into an improved O-line.

[Shoes]

They seem to be a bunch of young guys that have a lot confidence with a coach that’s teaching them to be nasty. I’m look forward to see them succeed.

[86WARD]

@HollywoodSteel

100%

Even if every other O-line position is a wash (and I think most will be a slight upgrade at the minimum), Dotson starting is a HUGE upgrade. That alone translates into an improved O-line.

Talent-wise maybe a small upgrade. Mentally, do they have it where it counts at the young age or are we looking at the improved o-line come 2022?

[Mojouw]

Talent-wise maybe a small upgrade. Mentally, do they have it where it counts at the young age or are we looking at the improved o-line come 2022?
This is where I am at.

Every changes they made had to happen. Tread water in 2021 and 2022 see a step forward.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Bingo!!!

Andrew Fillippponi is Simone from Ferris Beuller.

Thanks for letting me know its the pony-dung-express writing another baseless article, so I dont click on it. That guy is pretty much Matthew Marczi with a twitter following.

The O line is going to be fine. As long as it stays healthy. IMO.

[teegre]

That guy is pretty much Matthew Marczi with a twitter following.

I actually almost posted a similar analogy.

Fillipponi is essentially Mark Madden sans the vitriol… and diabetes.

[teegre]

Looks like the opening day lineup is:

Moore - Dotson - Green - Turner - Chukks

The question becomes: when Banner returns, what happens to Chukks? Honestly, I think Moore just seized the starting LT spot… and won’t let go (for a decade).

[dislocatedday]

Looks like the opening day lineup is:

Moore - Dotson - Green - Turner - Chukks

The question becomes: when Banner returns, what happens to Chukks? Honestly, I think Moore just seized the starting LT spot… and won’t let go (for a decade).

I hope Moore will seize the LT position and own it for a long time .......but more than just a hope, I also tend to think that it will actually happen. He looked good in pre-season play, and just physically he looks like he is in such good shape for an O-lineman.

[Mojouw]

Looks like the opening day lineup is:

Moore - Dotson - Green - Turner - Chukks

The question becomes: when Banner returns, what happens to Chukks? Honestly, I think Moore just seized the starting LT spot… and won’t let go (for a decade).

I WANT to be optimistic...but the only name on that list I have confidence in is Dotson.

[dislocatedday]

I WANT to be optimistic...but the only name on that list I have confidence in is Dotson.

I get that, and I kind of feel the same way, but I do think Moore and Green will become solid players..........hopefully sooner rather than later. I'm nervous though going into the regular season as now they will be going against 1st team defenses all game long, and it is not going to be like preseason.

[86WARD]

I WANT to be optimistic...but the only name on that list I have confidence in is Dotson.

I know what you mean. When I see that lineup, it’s scary to me…

[teegre]

I hope Moore will seize the LT position and own it for a long time .......but more than just a hope, I also tend to think that it will actually happen. He looked good in pre-season play, and just physically he looks like he is in such good shape for an O-lineman.

Spot on. :nod: I know it was only preseason, but when he was in, you could see the difference… particularly, his attitude. The dude FINISHED plays. The RB would already be by him, but it appeared that Moore “wanted” to drive his defender into the dirt. IMO, he’s the perfect “Klemm” type of player.

[Shoes]

Well we had one of the best olines in the nfl, the 3 "B's" and not much really came of all that talent. Maybe, just maybe something can come out of a bunch of young guys who just get out there and play football. I think this is going to be a fun season.

[EzraTank]

I know what you mean. When I see that lineup, it’s scary to me…

Hence, going back to the title of my thread. This is going to be a scary year for Ben if and WHEN we have to pass. I hope NH can block.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

So, people still scared??

I dont think it was any worse than last year performance vs the Bills and I think they have a lot more upside than the unit that was on the field last December against the Bills.

[Fire Goodell]

So, people still scared??

I dont think it was any worse than last year performance vs the Bills and I think they have a lot more upside than the unit that was on the field last December against the Bills.

Yep the arrow can only go up from here, it's a young OL with 2 rookies on it.

[86WARD]

So, people still scared??

I dont think it was any worse than last year performance vs the Bills and I think they have a lot more upside than the unit that was on the field last December against the Bills.

Yes. I thought the run blocking needs a whole lot of improvement. The blocking seemed to be about where I thought it would be. I wasn’t overly excited about it but it did seem like it improved as the game went on? So maybe the continue the improvement as the season progresses.

[Mojouw]

So, people still scared??

I dont think it was any worse than last year performance vs the Bills and I think they have a lot more upside than the unit that was on the field last December against the Bills.

Yes. I think it is time to conclude that, unfortunately, Chukks just isn't going to get any better. I didn't see any improvement from him from last year. He is adequate. But that is disappointing because I really thought he was going to develop into something.

Green is going to be an adventure all year because he simply needs to get stronger. Something that won't happen until the off-season.

Moore is going to be fine? But will struggle in pass protection against experienced NFL pass rushers. But he has definitely passed Chukks as the "exciting OT prospect".

Dotson and Turner should both be okay if they stay healthy. They will look better as the guys around them look better.

But...I am still highly concerned about the OL. The offense clearly had a limited playbook on Sunday. I suspect the prime reason for that was the offensive line. Not going to consistently win games without being able to run the whole playbook.

[dislocatedday]

It appears to me that Chukks' ceiling is a serviceable backup tackle at the NFL level. I do not see him being the starting LT a team wants protecting the QB's blindside.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Yep the arrow can only go up from here, it's a young OL with 2 rookies on it.

:chuckle: It seems like you are the only optimist on the thread.

As the season goes on and guys like Dotson, Green and Turner get used to playing next to each other and be more efficient at combination blocks, passing off defenders and when to reach block a guys vs kick him out for Najee to find the seam to run at. But all 3 of those guys showed some effort, intensity, ability to block defenders. Moore looked OK and that is a challenging spot to put a young guy, but he will get better as he seems to embrace run blocking and NFL pass protection is on the job learning for him. Okorafor showed he can move his feet, but still isnt the greatest in run blocking, which needs to happen for him to be of worth to the Steelers or another team.

That Bills defense is good, the environment was loud and for 2 rookies and 1 2nd year pro it could have been a lot worse. I will look at the game again, if I have time, but I think I saw some Trai Turner plays blocking that are encouraging to think that he may be healthy again.

[86WARD]

Anyone know why Green was out of the game at one point?

[tube517]

Anyone know why Green was out of the game at one point?

I saw JC in there for a snap or 2, then Green was back in. Not sure why though.

[86WARD]

I saw JC in there for a snap or 2, then Green was back in. Not sure why though.

I saw that too. Maybe it was just an equipment issue.

[HollywoodSteel]

So are we thinking when Banner comes back he plays RT, and we keep Moore as LT?

I know there is more football to be played between now and then, but I’m hoping that Moore holds his own in that LT spot and keeps it. Meanwhile Banner, if healthy, is probably a better run blocker than Chuks.

[hawaiiansteeler]

PFF week 1 grades: OL

Left to right.

Dan Moore: 71.8
Dotson: 52.8
Green: 55.3
Turner: 69.1
Okorafor: 53.1

[teegre]

So are we thinking when Banner comes back he plays RT, and we keep Moore as LT?

Yes :nod:

[teegre]

Anyone watching AV play tonight?
Simply, Father Time is unbeaten.

btw: Green is tied for first in “win-rate” for centers.

[Rotorhead]

PFF week 1 grades: OL

Left to right.

Dan Moore: 71.8
Dotson: 52.8
Green: 55.3
Turner: 69.1
Okorafor: 53.1

Can you shed some light on what these numbers mean, are these out of 100?

[HollywoodSteel]

Anyone watching AV play tonight?
Simply, Father Time is unbeaten.

btw: Green is tied for first in “win-rate” for centers.

Yeah I took note of that too. AV was getting abused. TJ is going to enjoy that matchup.

[86WARD]

Anyone watching AV play tonight?
Simply, Father Time is unbeaten.

btw: Green is tied for first in “win-rate” for centers.

Impossible. He was a big loss for the Steelers this off-season. You need to read more intranets and watch more shows!

[dislocatedday]

Anyone watching AV play tonight?
Simply, Father Time is unbeaten.

btw: Green is tied for first in “win-rate” for centers.

I felt bad for AV watching him get consistently beaten last night..........but I also was telling myself the Steelers were right in moving on from him after last season :-)

If AV keeps getting abused like that I don't think he will remain in the starting lineup and face off against TJ when the Steelers play the Ravens.

[EzraTank]

Can you shed some light on what these numbers mean, are these out of 100?

It means they are all BFF's now!

Actually I'm in the same boat as you and have no clue. I'm sure they are just some stats some computer geek put together to measure offensive lines.

As far as this original thread, I'm still afraid of this line. But in a few weeks we'll know for sure. Remember we still have the hardest schedule in the NFL based off of wining pct from last season.

[Mojouw]

PFF is on a 100 point scale: https://www.pff.com/grades

The Player Grading Scale:
100-90 Elite
89-85 Pro Bowler
84-70 Starter
69-60 Backup
59-0 Replaceable

For O-line specifically: https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-run-blocking and https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-pass-protection

The bottom line is that the Steelers offensive line graded out, on one places scale as replacement level. Just one week. Just one place. Just an initial look. But, I don't think anyone is going to argue against the idea that they simply were not very good.

I mean, the going story seems to be that the offensive line was so bad - going into the game - that the offensive coaching staff carved the playboook down to size. Right now the Steelers offense is best described as downfield penalties and wishes.

[DesertSteel]

PFF is on a 100 point scale: https://www.pff.com/grades

The Player Grading Scale:
100-90 Elite
89-85 Pro Bowler
84-70 Starter
69-60 Backup
59-0 Replaceable

For O-line specifically: https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-run-blocking and https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-pass-protection

The bottom line is that the Steelers offensive line graded out, on one places scale as replacement level. Just one week. Just one place. Just an initial look. But, I don't think anyone is going to argue against the idea that they simply were not very good.

I mean, the going story seems to be that the offensive line was so bad - going into the game - that the offensive coaching staff carved the playboook down to size. Right now the Steelers offense is best described as downfield penalties and wishes.
I see three links that explain how their grading system works. Where's the link that shows the Steelers grades for the Bills game?

[Mojouw]

I see three links that explain how their grading system works. Where's the link that shows the Steelers grades for the Bills game?

Posted earlier in the thread. An explanation was asked for and I can't multi quote well on my phone. Likely because I'm old and impatient.

[DesertSteel]

Posted earlier in the thread. An explanation was asked for and I can't multi quote well on my phone. Likely because I'm old and impatient.
Gotcha. Interesting that Moore was the only one to get a starting grade. I wonder how much bias goes into these evaluations, based on reputation, or lack thereof.

[Mojouw]

Gotcha. Interesting that Moore was the only one to get a starting grade. I wonder how much bias goes into these evaluations, based on reputation, or lack thereof.

No idea. I also thought it was interesting that the PFF site claims that it uses All-22 footage to make its grades. But based on when Hawaii posted the grades, there is no way that has been done yet. The All-22 usually comes out midweek according to the various podcasts I listen to that make use of it each week.

Long story short, wonder if those grades will move up or down based on that film?

[DesertSteel]

No idea. I also thought it was interesting that the PFF site claims that it uses All-22 footage to make its grades. But based on when Hawaii posted the grades, there is no way that has been done yet. The All-22 usually comes out midweek according to the various podcasts I listen to that make use of it each week.

Long story short, wonder if those grades will move up or down based on that film?

Hard for me to say since it appears that gamepass has removed the all 22 from its options this year. Last year and previous years though, it was available much earlier than mid-week. There were random examples when it was available on the night of the game.

Edit: In fact, I just wrote the commissioner an email about my concerns with the product, including the removal of the all 22.

[pczach]

Hard for me to say since it appears that gamepass has removed the all 22 from its options this year. Last year and previous years though, it was available much earlier than mid-week. There were random examples when it was available on the night of the game.

Edit: In fact, I just wrote the commissioner an email about my concerns with the product, including the removal of the all 22.





"I just got the email about your concerns. You are very important to us........We will take your concerns under advisement"


https://media.giphy.com/media/VEySBbj8mlj7PdAPgq/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e476pkjdh8oaikt5i0t8im1on11o99f pelia4pbp204&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[DesertSteel]

PFF week 1 grades: OL

Left to right.

Dan Moore: 71.8
Dotson: 52.8
Green: 55.3
Turner: 69.1
Okorafor: 53.1

Then there's this from ESPN:

The Steelers offensive line is still a work in progress, but Green had a pretty solid game in his NFL debut with a 100% pass block win rate -- good for a six-way tie for best among centers.

[teegre]

Then there's this from ESPN:

The Steelers offensive line is still a work in progress, but Green had a pretty solid game in his NFL debut with a 100% pass block win rate -- good for a six-way tie for best among centers.

Yep :nod:


btw: Green is tied for first in “win-rate” for centers.

It’s why I take PFF with a grain of salt.

[EzraTank]

PFF is on a 100 point scale: https://www.pff.com/grades

The Player Grading Scale:
100-90 Elite
89-85 Pro Bowler
84-70 Starter
69-60 Backup
59-0 Replaceable



Dan Moore: 71.8 - Starter (yea!) barely.
Dotson: 52.8 - Replaceable
Green: 55.3 - Replaceable
Turner: 69.1 - Backup (but almost a starter)
Okorafor: 53.1 - Replaceable

DOOMED 1-16!

[Mojouw]

Then there's this from ESPN:

The Steelers offensive line is still a work in progress, but Green had a pretty solid game in his NFL debut with a 100% pass block win rate -- good for a six-way tie for best among centers.

Both could be true if he was just awful in run blocking...or they evaluate on different criteria...etc.

I kinda feel like Green might be a better pass protector than run blocker right now...but I really don't know.

[ETL]

I am completely ok with being patient with the OL. Everyone is a new starter and two rookies. I am quite excited about Green and Moore. Kudos to Colbert for finding them in round 3 and 4. I live in Chicago and Tevin Jenkins has yet to see the field due to back issues which he had in college.

I am still down on Ben in that he doesn’t have the zip on the ball that he did before. However … I will always root for the Steelers and if this defense can play lights out and Ben avoids throwing INTs - we have a shot. A limp Peyton Manning and even Trent Dilfer have won Super Bowls. Cmon Ben - play smart and run this offense and avoid dumb plays and give us a shot.

[DesertSteel]

A running game will be the best thing that ever happened to Ben.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

A running game will be the best thing that ever happened to Ben.

Agreed. But one thing struck me as the Steelers threw a couple WR screens in the game....the O linemen on the team are very athletic and can get out to block in space. A quick WR screen with linemen pulling into space can soften up coverages, so there is more space to run and vise versa. Friermuth and Ebron stretching the seams vertically can also help. I think the offense has a lot of options and it will just take a bit of time for the group to settle into Canada's scheme.

[Fire Goodell]

I can't wait for a game where Najee Harris can find some daylight. He looks like he's got that explosiveness that Bell never had

[bendsteel]

I can't wait for a game where Najee Harris can find some daylight. He looks like he's got that explosiveness that Bell never had

I was waiting for somebody to say this. Give him a few games to sort his shit out and this dude is gonna break ankles and/or bust heads. I have not been this high on a RB since Da Bus.

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51479086654_4d7b6c3c7c.jpg

[HollywoodSteel]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51479086654_4d7b6c3c7c.jpg

AV is doing what I expected, but Stanley is surprising. Could it be he’s not 100%?

If that’s the case I wish we were playing the Ravens this week. Our front seven would destroy that line.

[ETL]

I feel bad for AV. He played his heart out for us and he will for the Ravens as well. That is his mojo always. It’s that his body just can’t keep up with his heart.

[HollywoodSteel]

I feel bad for AV. He played his heart out for us and he will for the Ravens as well. That is his mojo always. It’s that his body just can’t keep up with his heart.

I feel the same way. On the one hand, I wish he just retired a Steeler and saved himself the embarrassment of going out there as a shell of his former self. On the other hand, good for him for extracting money from the Ravens while making them a worse team. :)

[ETL]

I feel the same way. On the one hand, I wish he just retired a Steeler and saved himself the embarrassment of going out there as a shell of his former self. On the other hand, good for him for extracting money from the Ravens while making them a worse team. :)

that is pure gold. I love your thought. Maybe AV is being loyal to the Steelers after all in a secret covert op way as he was an army ranger. He has infiltrated the enemy and expunged their monetary resources and is secretly poisoning them from the inside out. Love it! AV - black and gold all the way!

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5RBfXRCLxQ

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51655771617_a56866be20_w.jpg

[pczach]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51655771617_a56866be20_w.jpg


Awesome!

Thanks for sharing that.

[86WARD]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51655771617_a56866be20_w.jpg

Like literally coming together to stand in a corner?

[Steeler-in-west]

Last week was scary- our center being pushed back 3-4 yards off the line on short yardage situation is scary. How does one fix that?

[EzraTank]

Last week was scary- our center being pushed back 3-4 yards off the line on short yardage situation is scary. How does one fix that?

Yes, but they played one good game against the Browns ...