Adrian Klemm Emphasizing Three-Point Stances For Offensive Line

[BlackAndGold]

1397630813563498501


https://steelersnow.com/adrian-klemm-brings-intensity-aggressiveness-to-steelers-offensive-line/

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Interesting. Something discussed on this forum in the 2019 playoffs.

Lots of O line coaches think you can operate out of a 2 point and still run the ball effectively. Maybe Klemm wants to build an attitude of being a physical unit up front and coming off the ball lower in the run game. Maybe its Canada pushing for it. Either way, I support it.


I recently saw Charley Casserly talking about a teams "Identity" and he mentioned SF as a team that has a "physical running game on offense and attacking style defense". It got me questioning "what is the Steelers identity on offense and how does their O line stance influence that?".

The Steelers generally employ a set of 2-point stances in their O linemen, except the TE's or an extra O lineman like Banner. Its more of a pass protection set IMO, but obviously you can run out of it, while you don't have as much forward leverage as a 3 point stance.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi94OHWkOjmAhWPpp4KHafqBbkQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsteelersdepot.com%2F2017%2F11%2F film-room-villanueva-seeking-answers-ansah%2F&psig=AOvVaw3YQMhazeXhyQolyiqY8e-C&ust=1578164924174026https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/fan/image?url=https://stillcurtain.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/458805656-pittsburgh-steelers-v-new-york-jets.jpg.jpg&w=850&h=560&c=sc

Other teams like SF, Seattle, Baltimore, etc. employ a 3 point stance with more forward leverage, which looks more like a traditional run blocking stance. I think those teams may use more of that look to run play action off of, once the run has been established.

https://nesn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/49ers-offensive-line.jpg

I think I come to the opinion that the Steelers are a pass first offense and the line stance is reflective of that. It likely made any chance of leaning on the run game with inexperienced QB's a bit more challenging.

Might be interesting over the weekend Wildcard games to watch what teams employ a 3 point stance on 1st downs and what ones use a 2-point.

Steelers Offensive Identity and O-Line Stance (steelersuniverse.com) (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/31519-Steelers-Offensive-Identity-and-O-Line-Stance?highlight=offensive+line+stance)

[Edman]

I look at from the idea that the Ben-Fichtner experiment was a failure and just trying something else. What they were doing on offense wasn’t working. I support the approach no matter what.

[HollywoodSteel]

As long as they don’t do that stupid Cowboys move of going down, standing back up, and going back down again. Might as well make them do a jumping Jack between each play.

[pczach]

I look at from the idea that the Ben-Fichtner experiment was a failure and just trying something else. What they were doing on offense wasn’t working. I support the approach no matter what.




I hear what you're saying, but it has nothing to do with Ben-Fichtner directly. It is a fundamental change in the operational technique of the offensive line.

I don't know who the brainchild of the 2-point stance by the OL was. I don't know if it was Fichtner or Sarrett. Either way, fixing the OL is the first and best step to improving the running game, and the offense in general.

[Fire Goodell]

Fitchner's offense sorta resembled the run & shoot which I wasn't a fan of.

[DesertSteel]

I think that Najee’s pass catching skills are going to be better than LeVeon’s.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I hear what you're saying, but it has nothing to do with Ben-Fichtner directly. It is a fundamental change in the operational technique of the offensive line.

I don't know who the brainchild of the 2-point stance by the OL was. I don't know if it was Fichtner or Sarrett. Either way, fixing the OL is the first and best step to improving the running game, and the offense in general.

Lots of coaches in NFL, College, Highschool, etc run O line out of a 2 point stance nowadays. When the QB is in Pistol or Gun so often, with a single RB, it can be a read-option play, pass play or straight give to the RB all from the same look. From 2 point it gives the OT's a better chance at dealing with speed rushers than in 3 point.

The advocates for the 3 point believe the advantages are better pad level and leverage in the run game, because the starting point is lower and they just rely on the OT's to be quick enough out of their stance to be able to deal with having to block a speed rusher going forward, while the OT starts with his hand in the dirt and has to go backwards.

IMO, its a personal preference and you have to know the strengths and weaknesses of both and have the athletes and coaching to make work, whatever you decide to go with.

[RunNGun]

Curious if any teams have the interior OL in a 3 point stance and the Ts in a 2 point? I like the idea of the 3 point to help the running game, but they may be increasing the chances of Ben getting his clock cleaned.

[Mojouw]

Honestly, I get what everyone is saying. And I see the wisdom in it. But I struggle with professionals needing this rah-rah motivational messaging. Like, it is your job to move the man in front of you. Do it. It’s the NFL, not East Central Nowhere State or the local high school. Take some pride in your craft and some personal responsibility.

Long story short, it’s gonna be a preseason of rosy optimism and then a regular season of the same old same old.

This team is still built to pass as is most of the league. And the weakest part of the last third of 2020 was under center.

I know this comes off as negative and dismissive but the flaws that I feel were obvious and incredibly detrimental to success haven’t changed. Look at teams with fancy schmancy running games but mediocre or below passing attacks. They all basically suck.

Marry even a dominant rushing attack to the horrible passing attack of the end of 2020 and where does that get you? Not very far based on recent NFL trends.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Honestly, I get what everyone is saying. And I see the wisdom in it. But I struggle with professionals needing this rah-rah motivational messaging. Like, it is your job to move the man in front of you. Do it. It’s the NFL, not East Central Nowhere State or the local high school. Take some pride in your craft and some personal responsibility.

Long story short, it’s gonna be a preseason of rosy optimism and then a regular season of the same old same old.

This team is still built to pass as is most of the league. And the weakest part of the last third of 2020 was under center.

I know this comes off as negative and dismissive but the flaws that I feel were obvious and incredibly detrimental to success haven’t changed. Look at teams with fancy schmancy running games but mediocre or below passing attacks. They all basically suck.

Marry even a dominant rushing attack to the horrible passing attack of the end of 2020 and where does that get you? Not very far based on recent NFL trends.

Establishing a culture in a football team, an Offensive Line group, is no different that establishing a culture in a unit of the military, a corporation, a school, a bar/restaurant.

Its not rah-rah motivational messaging. It communication and establishing accountability and a way of doing things. I know that I come off as negative and dismissive, when I try and explain this to people that havent been involved with football, other than watching it on TV and for that I apologize in advance.

[Mojouw]

Establishing a culture in a football team, an Offensive Line group, is no different that establishing a culture in a unit of the military, a corporation, a school, a bar/restaurant.

Its not rah-rah motivational messaging. It communication and establishing accountability and a way of doing things. I know that I come off as negative and dismissive, when I try and explain this to people that havent been involved with football, other than watching it on TV and for that I apologize in advance.

I can totally see establishing a culture and creating an attitude.

What I struggle with is that as a “silver bullet” explanation for performance/outcome.

For instance, I’m more optimistic about the o line performance because of the projected starting unit being better than last season’s. Not because of technical aspects.

It does sound like these guys are going to enjoy going to work more under the new staff. And that is really important.

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

Interesting. Something discussed on this forum in the 2019 playoffs.

Lots of O line coaches think you can operate out of a 2 point and still run the ball effectively. Maybe Klemm wants to build an attitude of being a physical unit up front and coming off the ball lower in the run game. Maybe its Canada pushing for it. Either way, I support it.



Steelers Offensive Identity and O-Line Stance (steelersuniverse.com) (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/31519-Steelers-Offensive-Identity-and-O-Line-Stance?highlight=offensive+line+stance)

It's the Rooneys. The draft emphasizing the run game. The change in OC. Rooneys.

[Born2Steel]

Curious if any teams have the interior OL in a 3 point stance and the Ts in a 2 point? I like the idea of the 3 point to help the running game, but they may be increasing the chances of Ben getting his clock cleaned.

Obviously there are several different ways to approach scheming the OL. I have only coached kids on a 5-6yr old thru 12yr olds so it evolves a little each year. I did it for 2 rotations of 8yrs. Then after 12 the kids move to the school system and they only play with the interior guys in 3-point stance with their OTs in 2-point stance. But it becomes a spread offense starting in middle school thru highschool. I’m only talking about in my town and only the public highschool. 5-12 building foundation and fundamentals, then 3 middle schools teach the system used by the highschool. Which is IOL in 3-point and OTs in 2-point 100% of offensive snaps.

I think that is very typical in college spread offenses as well.

[RunNGun]

Obviously there are several different ways to approach scheming the OL. I have only coached kids on a 5-6yr old thru 12yr olds so it evolves a little each year. I did it for 2 rotations of 8yrs. Then after 12 the kids move to the school system and they only play with the interior guys in 3-point stance with their OTs in 2-point stance. But it becomes a spread offense starting in middle school thru highschool. I’m only talking about in my town and only the public highschool. 5-12 building foundation and fundamentals, then 3 middle schools teach the system used by the highschool. Which is IOL in 3-point and OTs in 2-point 100% of offensive snaps.

I think that is very typical in college spread offenses as well.

Thanks for clearing that up. I assume some offenses still use this approach, but I will be honest...my knowledge of the OL is pretty slim, but having your Ts in a 2 point and Gs in a 3 point makes a whole lot of sense to me.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Adrian Klemm wants to see Chuks Okorafor be a little more 'physical' in 2021

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/06/okorafor-impressing-klemm-in-move-to-left-tackle/

[Steeler-in-west]

If the three point stance gives the linemen better leverage and a jump in run blocking then the opposite could be true on passing plays. I imagine that’s where the practice will come in - effective pass blocking out of the three point stance.

AV would’ve never been able to adjust

[HollywoodSteel]

If the three point stance gives the linemen better leverage and a jump in run blocking then the opposite could be true on passing plays. I imagine that’s where the practice will come in - effective pass blocking out of the three point stance.

AV would’ve never been able to adjust


What pre-snap stance do the Ravens use? If it’s a 3 point stance do you think AV is doomed to failure?

[Steeler-in-west]

What pre-snap stance do the Ravens use? If it’s a 3 point stance do you think AV is doomed to failure?

Nor sure but I would guess they use the three point stance, in which case AV is in trouble - he had problems pass blocking out of the two point stance last year

not sure why they picked him up, desperation? Or a way to get inside info on a division rival?

[Fire Goodell]

I think that Najee’s pass catching skills are going to be better than LeVeon’s.

Damn, so RB1 and WR1 money then?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Nor sure but I would guess they use the three point stance, in which case AV is in trouble - he had problems pass blocking out of the two point stance last year

not sure why they picked him up, desperation? Or a way to get inside info on a division rival?

From what I could see, he lapsed into lazy habits that he used to have around 5 years ago. Not a good balance pass set and not a good punch to use the long arms that a 6'9" guys has in pass protection. He didnt get depth in pass sets and wasnt balanced well(too high).

A decent O line coach with good reinforcement of technique and a culture of the repetition of such techniques should help. Honestly...when you cannot get a former Army Ranger to adapt to the disciplines and repetitive techniques for success on the O line, then you have let the culture of your O line room go to crap.

I dont know what went on inside Sarrett's O line group, but could tell from body language of the guys up front that it was slack. Could tell from guys stopping before the whistle that it was a culture of mediocrity. Klemm going to shock a lot of the doubters.

[Steeler-in-west]

From what I could see, he lapsed into lazy habits that he used to have around 5 years ago. Not a good balance pass set and not a good punch to use the long arms that a 6'9" guys has in pass protection. He didnt get depth in pass sets and wasnt balanced well(too high).

A decent O line coach with good reinforcement of technique and a culture of the repetition of such techniques should help. Honestly...when you cannot get a former Army Ranger to adapt to the disciplines and repetitive techniques for success on the O line, then you have let the culture of your O line room go to crap.

I dont know what went on inside Sarrett's O line group, but could tell from body language of the guys up front that it was slack. Could tell from guys stopping before the whistle that it was a culture of mediocrity. Klemm going to shock a lot of the doubters.

Hopefully, but do you think AV could be rehabilitated in Baltimore? I would think they talked to Klemm about it before letting him go

[86WARD]

Damn, so RB1 and WR1 money then?

Might be a good idea to sign Bell as a back up then to tell Harris what NOT to do when it comes to contract negotiations…

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Hopefully, but do you think AV could be rehabilitated in Baltimore? I would think they talked to Klemm about it before letting him go

Yes I do. He will be 33 in September and still has a few good years left in him if he chooses to work on getting back to where he once was.

Steelers were a cash strapped team and had to spend their money wisely. Paying a 33 year old OT good free agent money isnt a good long term investment. Lets be clear, this is a re-tool, rebuild mode that the Steelers are in currently. They are not even the favorite to win the division, let alone the Conference, so the time for going all in for a Super Bowl run has passed.

[Steeler-in-west]

Yes I do. He will be 33 in September and still has a few good years left in him if he chooses to work on getting back to where he once was.

Steelers were a cash strapped team and had to spend their money wisely. Paying a 33 year old OT good free agent money isnt a good long term investment. Lets be clear, this is a re-tool, rebuild mode that the Steelers are in currently. They are not even the favorite to win the division, let alone the Conference, so the time for going all in for a Super Bowl run has passed.

I think the steelers want to make a run this year, they didn't bring Ben back just for old times sake, not to mention bringing back Juju and revamping the running game - that tells me the steelers intend to improve on last years performance - barring serious injury i think they'll be a much better team than last year.

[Born2Steel]

I think the steelers want to make a run this year, they didn't bring Ben back just for old times sake, not to mention bringing back Juju and revamping the running game - that tells me the steelers intend to improve on last years performance - barring serious injury i think they'll be a much better team than last year.

True. Every year is trying to improve off last year. This season will be very interesting with a new OL, a new offense, new RB and TE, and how this will all run through Ben. The defense should still be elite. Hopefully the defense can win a couple/few while the offense goes through it's growing pains.