Moats: Should The Pittsburgh Steelers Sign Melvin Ingram Or Justin Houston?

[Shoes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM1qx4xwaoA

[Born2Steel]

From that conversation I agree with the thought of bringing in a veteran to play a backup role that allows Highsmith to start and grow into that role, while allowing Roche to not be expected to step into the primary backup role day 1. Makes good sense to me.

[Mojouw]

I think that the idea is sound. But Ingram and Houston are not coming to Pittsburgh. Two reasons:

1. They don't have any money to pay them.
2. These guys are going to go somewhere to either ring chase or play a TON of snaps and rehab their 2022 FA value. Neither is really the plan in Pittsburgh.

[Shoes]

From that conversation I agree with the thought of bringing in a veteran to play a backup role that allows Highsmith to start and grow into that role, while allowing Roche to not be expected to step into the primary backup role day 1. Makes good sense to me.

I think I'd go with Houston if I had a choice. He played in every game last season, with no injury issues and I believe they said he had 8 sacks plus he would be the cheaper of the two. I like the thought that he would be great player when TJ and Highsmith need rested.

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I think that the idea is sound. But Ingram and Houston are not coming to Pittsburgh. Two reasons:

1. They don't have any money to pay them.
2. These guys are going to go somewhere to either ring chase or play a TON of snaps and rehab their 2022 FA value. Neither is really the plan in Pittsburgh.


Moats seemed to think they could swing Houston. :noidea:

[hawaiiansteeler]

are they willing to play for the one year vet minimum?

[Shoes]

are they willing to play for the one year vet minimum?


I believe last year Houston was a 9m cap hit on the colts. I'm sure the Steelers don't have the cash as Mojouw said but the Steelers have played musical chairs with money in the past. I just hope they don't bring Chickillo back.

[DesertSteel]

I hear that Jarvis Jones is available.

[Mojouw]

I don't think that Houston is gonna come here and play 10 snaps a game for like $3 million or something. Why would he? I'm sure the Chiefs, Bills, Bucs, or another SB contender would more than willingly match that deal.

Also....what does the team want in another OLB? Does that player need to play special teams? Almost certainly. Houston and Ingram won't be doing that. Does another OLB ONLY play on obvious pass rushing downs? Because Ingram and Houston aren't coming here to play run defense. And if Watt is a legit DPOY candidate and Highsmith is everything the team seems to think he is...why would you ever pull those two off the field on a pass rush down?

To me, it seems like what they Steelers need is a solid professional OLB that is a good run defender and can play on STs. Any pass rush is just a bonus. Again...and this is just my weird brain...but that says something like Jayrone Elliot or the 2021 version of him.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I hear that Jarvis Jones is available.

Yeah, but do you think they could lure him away from Subway to Latrobe for Training Camp?

https://smartcdn.prod.postmedia.digital/nationalpost/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/subway_welcomes_jarvis_jones_with_life-size_food_statue-1.jpg?w=564&quality=90&strip=all&type=webp

[BlackAndGold]

Trent Murphy makes more sense cap wise.

[Born2Steel]

I think I'd go with Houston if I had a choice. He played in every game last season, with no injury issues and I believe they said he had 8 sacks plus he would be the cheaper of the two. I like the thought that he would be great player when TJ and Highsmith need rested.

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Moats seemed to think they could swing Houston. :noidea:


I think the NFL are doing the 1 big cut at the end of TC again this season. Maybe if they don't bring in a 1 year vet minimum guy now one could come available at the cutdown. I don't think they would bring in another rookie at this point, but maybe. It seems to me you want a guy that brings a veteran experience but would be the 1st backup role for Watt and Highsmith. If not Houston or Ingram I would bet someone else gets cut and can be picked up for vet minimum or a little more at the end of TC.

[Born2Steel]

What do we think of Mychal Kendricks?

[pczach]

Yeah, but do you think they could lure him away from Subway to Latrobe for Training Camp?

https://smartcdn.prod.postmedia.digital/nationalpost/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/subway_welcomes_jarvis_jones_with_life-size_food_statue-1.jpg?w=564&quality=90&strip=all&type=webp




It's awfully hard to give up that employee discount.

[hawaiiansteeler]

It's awfully hard to give up that employee discount.

I think you get a free cookie once a month also, no way he's leaving.

[teegre]

Which is worse: working at Subway or eating the food?

:puke:

[86WARD]

Which is worse: working at Subway or eating the food?

:puke:

Working. Because when you work there, you’ll probably also eat it...

[Disco1981]

I think that the idea is sound. But Ingram and Houston are not coming to Pittsburgh. Two reasons:

1. They don't have any money to pay them.
2. These guys are going to go somewhere to either ring chase or play a TON of snaps and rehab their 2022 FA value. Neither is really the plan in Pittsburgh.

Not so sure about no.2...They're old veterans on their last legs...I don't think any pending/big future FA signii is in their future

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I don't think that Houston is gonna come here and play 10 snaps a game for like $3 million or something. Why would he? I'm sure the Chiefs, Bills, Bucs, or another SB contender would more than willingly match that deal.

Also....what does the team want in another OLB? Does that player need to play special teams? Almost certainly. Houston and Ingram won't be doing that. Does another OLB ONLY play on obvious pass rushing downs? Because Ingram and Houston aren't coming here to play run defense. And if Watt is a legit DPOY candidate and Highsmith is everything the team seems to think he is...why would you ever pull those two off the field on a pass rush down?

To me, it seems like what they Steelers need is a solid professional OLB that is a good run defender and can play on STs. Any pass rush is just a bonus. Again...and this is just my weird brain...but that says something like Jayrone Elliot or the 2021 version of him.

Between giving Highsmith AND Watt rest...He would hardly play only 10 snaps! It's usually every 3rd series...Which would mean, every other series when you're spelling 2 of them!

[teegre]

Melvin Ingram has always reminded me of Bud Dupree (or, vice versa)… in that they were both injured early & often, but when healthy, they were pretty good at applying pressure. Ingram (and Bud) spent four years doing squat, before they broke out. Ingram had a short-lived resurgence… before he once again couldn’t keep healthy (which I also foresee for Bud).

Simply put, Ingram might sign for cheap, and if he’s only asked to play 15 snaps (a series or two in each half), then that might the best for him and for the Steelers. It’s just enough playing time to keep him fresh/off of the training table, while allowing him to go “full tilt” on the plays where he’s spelling Watt/Highsmith.

[DesertSteel]

Between giving Highsmith AND Watt rest...He would hardly play only 10 snaps! It's usually every 3rd series...Which would mean, every other series when you're spelling 2 of them!
TJ's snap count was over 83% last year. How's that every third series??

[Shoes]

Looks like it was Ingram :lol:

[DesertSteel]

I love the definitive "He's not coming" conclusions in here.

[86WARD]

I love the definitive "He's not coming" conclusions in here.

A rule of thumb: If they want a player, they’ll get the player. Money/Salary cap is least of their issues. They ALWAYS find money if they need to…

[Dwinsgames]

I think that the idea is sound. But Ingram and Houston are not coming to Pittsburgh. Two reasons:

1. They don't have any money to pay them.
2. These guys are going to go somewhere to either ring chase or play a TON of snaps and rehab their 2022 FA value. Neither is really the plan in Pittsburgh.


oops

[Mojouw]

oops
Yup. Totally nailed that prediction.

I really thought that Ingram particularly would get like 6-8 on a one year deal.

[DesertSteel]

Yup. Totally nailed that prediction.

I really thought that Ingram particularly would get like 6-8 on a one year deal.
Anyone know what he did get?

[Mojouw]

Anyone know what he did get?

I think I saw $4 million.

[Shoes]

I was still hoping for Houston because of the no injury issues and he played very well last year, also read the Steelers wanted him. Still hasn't signed anywhere, so I'm guessing he has a high price. I agreed with Moats on Ingram, if he is in 2019 shape, he will probably be the starter.

[teegre]

I think I saw $4 million.

:nod: 1 year/$4 million

Houston is indeed who the Steelers wanted, but his asking price was twice as much. The silver lining is that signing Ingram for cheap allows the Steelers to still sign another free agent.

Last season, Houston had more sacks (8 to 0), but over the past three seasons, Ingram had a ton of pressures. They may not be as easily noticed, but pressures lead to incompletions.

[Mojouw]

:nod: 1 year/$4 million

Houston is indeed who the Steelers wanted, but his asking price was twice as much. The silver lining is that signing Ingram for cheap allows the Steelers to still sign another free agent.

Last season, Houston had more sacks (8 to 0), but over the past three seasons, Ingram had a ton of pressures. They may not be as easily noticed, but pressures lead to incompletions.

I would argue that Ingram is also the more complete LB at this stage in their careers.

[teegre]

I would argue that Ingram is also the more complete LB at this stage in their careers.

That might indeed be the case. Because, while Houston has far more sacks AND Houston has the name recognition (three All Pro seasons and the sack leader in 2014), Houston hasn’t made a Pro Bowl (nor an All Pro team) in half a decade. Maybe Houston is a “sack only” type of player at this point… :noidea: …but, I honestly don’t know, because I didn’t watch him with the Colts.

The drop off between what the two players can demand on the open market might have more to do with Ingram’s injury history (than a difference in their levels of play).

[Mojouw]

That might indeed be the case. Because, while Houston has far more sacks AND Houston has the name recognition (three All Pro seasons and the sack leader in 2014), Houston hasn’t made a Pro Bowl (nor an All Pro team) in half a decade. Maybe Houston is a “sack only” type of player at this point… :noidea: …but, I honestly don’t know, because I didn’t watch him with the Colts.

The drop off between what the two players can demand on the open market might have more to do with Ingram’s injury history (than a difference in their levels of play).

All true. Plus, sacks cost more. If you want a guy to come in on 3rd downs and just rush the passer...Houston is the choice. But if you want a guy that can do that (even if to a lesser degree) AND also step in for an injured starter and do 3-4 OLB things besides pass rush...then Ingram is a "better" choice?

Agree that if he wasn't injured past two seasons, this wouldn't be happening. Interesting to see what he shows in camp/preseason.

[86WARD]

Ingram will wear #8 in honor of Kobe.

[HollywoodSteel]

All true. Plus, sacks cost more. If you want a guy to come in on 3rd downs and just rush the passer...Houston is the choice. But if you want a guy that can do that (even if to a lesser degree) AND also step in for an injured starter and do 3-4 OLB things besides pass rush...then Ingram is a "better" choice?

Agree that if he wasn't injured past two seasons, this wouldn't be happening. Interesting to see what he shows in camp/preseason.

I totally understand that he’s an OLB, but if the injury bug hits at ILB, do you think he could potentially fill in there if need be? With Vince retiring I worry about our depth inside. Seems to me that Ingram could play the position at least as well as Marcus Allen.

[Mojouw]

I totally understand that he’s an OLB, but if the injury bug hits at ILB, do you think he could potentially fill in there if need be? With Vince retiring I worry about our depth inside. Seems to me that Ingram could play the position at least as well as Marcus Allen.

That is is damning with faint praise!!

In all seriousness...I don't know about ILB full time....but I do wonder if they go back to that package they used with some success last season with Watt/Dupree/Highsmith all on the field at the same time...

[HollywoodSteel]

That is is damning with faint praise!!

In all seriousness...I don't know about ILB full time....but I do wonder if they go back to that package they used with some success last season with Watt/Dupree/Highsmith all on the field at the same time...

Yeah, I think you get my point. I wasn’t so much praising Ingram as I was damning our ILB depth.

Maybe if Bush or Spillane goes down we see that 3 OLB package as our base formation.

[Mojouw]

Yeah, I think you get my point. I wasn’t so much praising Ingram as I was damning our ILB depth.

Maybe if Bush or Spillane goes down we see that 3 OLB package as our base formation.

If UG III finally stays health...I think he would do fine. In fact...he might be better than Spillane. But he is never healthy.

Also, Buddy Johnson or whatever his name is from the draft seems to be a much stronger prospect than a lot of his pre-draft press indicated.

I've been talking myself into there being depth at ILB...after all, I thought the team was doomed if Spillane had to play!

[HollywoodSteel]

If UG III finally stays health...I think he would do fine. In fact...he might be better than Spillane. But he is never healthy.

Also, Buddy Johnson or whatever his name is from the draft seems to be a much stronger prospect than a lot of his pre-draft press indicated.

I've been talking myself into there being depth at ILB...after all, I thought the team was doomed if Spillane had to play!

I don’t really know too much about our ILB draft pick, but I too am cautiously optimistic about UG3 if he can stay healthy.

I think maybe seeing Marcus Allen as our primary backup for one of the ILB spots on our newly released depth chart has me a little jumpy.

[Mojouw]

I don’t really know too much about our ILB draft pick, but I too am cautiously optimistic about UG3 if he can stay healthy.

I think maybe seeing Marcus Allen as our primary backup for one of the ILB spots on our newly released depth chart has me a little jumpy.
Right?! I really like how hard Allen plays and how much he wants to do things...but he is just too small to take on offensive lineman in the hole and get to the RB. I wish he was like 20 pounds heavier and he'd be really fun to watch.

[Born2Steel]

The thought of Marcus Allen as a primary backup at ILB is understandably un-nerving. He was supposedly too slow to stick at Safety and is a bit under-sized at ILB. Yet he still makes plays as an inside defender. I don't know if he's got enough 'ass' should he meet Nick Chubb in the hole to be more than a speed bump but I do have confidence he has enough experience as a defender to get there. Now, having said that, I would much rather it be Melvin Ingram be the one meeting Chubb. Or really anyone else in that LB room.

[86WARD]

The thought of Marcus Allen as a primary backup at ILB is understandably un-nerving. He was supposedly too slow to stick at Safety and is a bit under-sized at ILB. Yet he still makes plays as an inside defender. I don't know if he's got enough 'ass' should he meet Nick Chubb in the hole to be more than a speed bump but I do have confidence he has enough experience as a defender to get there. Now, having said that, I would much rather it be Melvin Ingram be the one meeting Chubb. Or really anyone else in that LB room.

I feel like he was decent playing the position last season or am I making things up?

[Born2Steel]

I feel like he was decent playing the position last season or am I making things up?

Yes he was decent. He made plays. My worry is can he hold up for most of or part of a season as the starter if needed. He is not ILB sized compared to the rest.

[Mojouw]

I feel like he was decent playing the position last season or am I making things up?
He was but, unless I am totally making this up, there were multiple plays where once an offensive lineman got his hands on him, Allen got pushed right out of the play. If he can avoid any and all blockers, he finds the ball and makes the tackle. But I might be remembering it all wrong.

[teegre]

From the reports I’m reading, Ingram is playing some ILB.

[86WARD]

He was but, unless I am totally making this up, there were multiple plays where once an offensive lineman got his hands on him, Allen got pushed right out of the play. If he can avoid any and all blockers, he finds the ball and makes the tackle. But I might be remembering it all wrong.

I can’t remember either but Inremember thinking that Tomlin was getting a lot out of these backups, Allen being one of them.

[Mojouw]

I can’t remember either but Inremember thinking that Tomlin was getting a lot out of these backups, Allen being one of them.

Agreed. Whatever Allen's deficiencies are/were as an ILB...they are fairly reasonable for a converted safety running as the third string option!

[tube517]

I can’t remember either but Inremember thinking that Tomlin was getting a lot out of these backups, Allen being one of them.

For the last few games, Tomlin didn't have much choice. He had Williamson, Allen and UG3 (barely) and no one else at ILB

[86WARD]

For the last few games, Tomlin didn't have much choice. He had Williamson, Allen and UG3 (barely) and no one else at ILB

Yeah and I don’t think the play was overly terrible…if I remember correctly?

[teegre]

Justin Houston signed with the Ravens. :doh:

…for ONLY $4 million/season. :scared:

[Born2Steel]

Justin Houston signed with the Ravens. :doh:

…for ONLY $4 million/season. :scared:

I love giving them just a sliver of hope before we destroy them on the field.

[Crow-Magnon]

Justin Houston signed with the Ravens. :doh:

…for ONLY $4 million/season. :scared:

Not sure how this will play out, but the price was right. And Houston was motivated to come to Baltimore.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Not sure how this will play out, but the price was right. And Houston was motivated to come to Baltimore.

signing Houston addresses the Ravens' biggest weakness after losing Judon and Ngakoue.

great get at a great price for you!

[Shoes]

Justin Houston signed with the Ravens. :doh:

…for ONLY $4 million/season. :scared:


He must have dropped his price or he did want to come to Pittsburgh.

[teegre]

He must have dropped his price or he did want to come to Pittsburgh.

Supposedly, he wants a ring.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubw5N8iVDHI

[Hawkman]

Supposedly, he wants a ring.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubw5N8iVDHI

Love that line.

[DesertSteel]

He must have dropped his price or he did want to come to Pittsburgh.
He wants to start. Highsmith is the guy over guys in their early-mid 30s.

[Crow-Magnon]

signing Houston addresses the Ravens' biggest weakness after losing Judon and Ngakoue.

great get at a great price for you!

I’m interested to see how well Judon and Ngakoue do this year. Especially Ngakoue. He did not turn out to be all that much playing in Baltimore, but that is likely due to several factors. I have no such concerns about Judon. Just interested to see if his play remains static, or if he progresses or regresses a bit.

Houston helps a lot. He may not be in his prime, but he has value as a both an edge rusher and a mentor to Odafe Oweh.

[DesertSteel]

Houston says Steelers offered him more money but Baltimore was a better fit. Translation: Steelers wanted me as a backup and Ravens wanted me as a starter. He’s a has-been.