Mac Jones, Steelers

[DesertSteel]

If Jones drops and is available at 24 does anyone here want him? I think there would be value there at 24 but it would be a move that signals more concern for the future then going all in for ‘21. Personally, I just want the BPA because I don’t see a championship run next season. I’d be intrigued with Jones. Other than not being a dual threat I haven’t heard too much negative about him. He ran a 4.85 and jumped 32” so he’s not a horrible athlete and he’s accurate on his deep balls. It’d be nice to have a rookie contract at QB for a few years.

[Mojouw]

I am not super excited about him as a prospect, but understand that many are.

I don't see how this franchise can pass on a QB prospect with as potentially as high of a ceiling as Jones if he is there at 24.

I have seen some scouting reports/profiles that basically say the sky is the limit for this kid. I have seen others that argue the NFL will swallow him whole.

[DesertSteel]

I think if the Patriots pass on him at 15 that he could be there at 24.

[Mojouw]

Hard to say. Jones has to be one of this year's most polarizing prospects.

I read some places that project him as Matt Barkley 2.0, a stronger armed Jake Fromm, or a slightly upgraded AJ McCarron. Then I read some places that say he is hands down the best QB in the class and will have an amazing pro career as a franchise QB and leader. Other places see him topping out as a slightly better Kirk Cousins.

I mean those are fairly different.

[Steeler-in-west]

I don’t think this qb changes the Steelers probable plans to take an o lineman or running back with the first pick.

[jens.karlsson.14]

Dont understand why everybody seems to ignore we signed the 15th overall pick Haskins. He might be IT. And they have to see something there, and new environment with one of the most culturally solid organisations in the League , might just do it for him

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[EzraTank]

Dont understand why everybody seems to ignore we signed the 15th overall pick Haskins. He might be IT. And they have to see something there, and new environment with one of the most culturally solid organisations in the League , might just do it for him

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:noidea: Missed the Bell/Brown years ...

[DesertSteel]

I don’t think this qb changes the Steelers probable plans to take an o lineman or running back with the first pick.
QBs on rookie deals let you sign all kinds of players that you need.

[Mojouw]

:noidea: Missed the Bell/Brown years ...

I would put forth that the failure of AB and Bell and Bryant and a few others to perform to the same level of production that they did in Pittsburgh does indicate there is a strong culture. Sure, those dudes did wacky and distracting stuff...but they still performed at an extremely high level. Other places? Still did wacky and distracting stuff but with zero star level performance.

No real way to prove the theory. But something I think about...

[st33lersguy]

Dont understand why everybody seems to ignore we signed the 15th overall pick Haskins. He might be IT. And they have to see something there, and new environment with one of the most culturally solid organisations in the League , might just do it for him

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You can't bank on Haskins not with 2 years of baggage. You can pretty much ignore draft position after the guy gets cut after less than 2 years (in fact higher draft position looks only worse when paired with getting cut in such a short time frame) If Mac Jones is there, I'm not going to pass on him because we have Haskins

[steelreserve]

Dont understand why everybody seems to ignore we signed the 15th overall pick Haskins. He might be IT. And they have to see something there, and new environment with one of the most culturally solid organisations in the League , might just do it for him

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Haskins is a shot in the dark. Who knows, maybe he turns it around, but if you ask me, it doesn't look like we're counting on it.

Ohio State over the past 10 years or so reminds me a lot of the way Oregon used to be. Not that they run the same cartoonish scheme, but that they have worked out a system that exploits college defenses. You still need a good QB to do it, but there is no telling whether it will translate to the pros.

[pczach]

Haskins is a shot in the dark. Who knows, maybe he turns it around, but if you ask me, it doesn't look like we're counting on it.

Ohio State over the past 10 years or so reminds me a lot of the way Oregon used to be. Not that they run the same cartoonish scheme, but that they have worked out a system that exploits college defenses. You still need a good QB to do it, but there is no telling whether it will translate to the pros.


They don't have a system that exploits college defenses. They have significantly better talent than everyone else they play.

Alabama and Ohio State just have more great players year in and year out. Clemson and some other teams have nice stretches where they are elite, but Bama and OSU have been doing it for a long time with no end in sight.

If you went back and looked at Ohio State's rosters, you wouldn't believe how much talent was on the team at one time most of the last 20 years.

[Fire Goodell]

I'm down, we have to start looking at life after Ben and I'm not 100% sold on Rudolph or Haskins (though I wouldn't be totally against them getting their shot if they earned it)

A QB on their rookie contract should lessen the pain of Ben's eventual cap hit

[Steeler-in-west]

QBs on rookie deals let you sign all kinds of players that you need.

that’s true if they’re any good. I’ve heard mixed reviews about Jones also. He may not be any better than Mason. A lot of us still remember Mark Malone being taken in the 1st round as Bradshaw was winding down his career. Ultimately it depends on how much the Steelers value Jones if he is available. Barring something really unexpected it seems they’re more committed to revamping the running game to support Ben’s likely final season.

It might be better to address the qb position the following year when the Steelers have more money and maybe a higher draft position (hopefully not)

[steelreserve]

They don't have a system that exploits college defenses. They have significantly better talent than everyone else they play.

Alabama and Ohio State just have more great players year in and year out. Clemson and some other teams have nice stretches where they are elite, but Bama and OSU have been doing it for a long time with no end in sight.

If you went back and looked at Ohio State's rosters, you wouldn't believe how much talent was on the team at one time most of the last 20 years.

That may be a big part of it. It's not a cheese system like Oregon, where they exploited a one-dimensional gimmick (speed) to create free plays. What OSU does is more like exploiting matchups, which they can do because they have the talent. But what it means either way is that sometimes you get guys who come out looking great because they were on easy mode. It can be hard to tell who is benefiting from whom as long as they're all part of the same machine.

[Born2Steel]

The ONLY knock I have heard on Jones is not even really a knock. He was surrounded by 1st -3rd round draft picks on that offense. Elite level athletes playing in a college system sometimes make it look better than it is. I don't know if I agree with that or not. I don't know enough eval info to judge a QB in that offense personally. All throws look really good when the WR/RB/TE is 15 yards open.

[Shoes]

I think R1 & R2 are going to be RB and OL, in any order. Some QB much better than Mac is going to have to drop to 24 before the Steelers go QB this year. With Art making his wishing known again today that he didn't want to see the Steelers last in league rushing ever again makes things very clear in the early draft picks imo.

[pczach]

That may be a big part of it. It's not a cheese system like Oregon, where they exploited a one-dimensional gimmick (speed) to create free plays. What OSU does is more like exploiting matchups, which they can do because they have the talent. But what it means either way is that sometimes you get guys who come out looking great because they were on easy mode. It can be hard to tell who is benefiting from whom as long as they're all part of the same machine.



Sure. Determining who is dominant from who looks dominant because of who they are playing with is always part of the evaluation process.

The thing that helps is that you generally know you are getting a high-end athlete that has succeeded at every level of football and has played against some good competition and future NFL talent in a major conference.

[steelreserve]

Sure. Determining who is dominant from who looks dominant because of who they are playing with is always part of the evaluation process.

The thing that helps is that you generally know you are getting a high-end athlete that has succeeded at every level of football and has played against some good competition and future NFL talent in a major conference.

Yeah, you're not wrong. I guess what I'm saying is that OSU lately seems to crank out a lot of QB's who just kill at the college level, and are great athletes and legitimate passers who can run an offense, and then for whatever reason, they top out at "meh" in the NFL. USC was the same way in the mid-2000s when they were super strong. Notre Dame has been the same way for most of the last 30 years. I don't know exactly what it is, but some programs just seem like they're geared to be really successful with certain types of QBs that are just a little different from what works in the pros. I tend to be suspicious of QBs from those programs. Nebraska would've been another one, but the system differences there were usually more obvious, and they haven't been very relevant for a long time.

[ETL]

Pass.

[DesertSteel]

The ONLY knock I have heard on Jones is not even really a knock. He was surrounded by 1st -3rd round draft picks on that offense. Elite level athletes playing in a college system sometimes make it look better than it is. I don't know if I agree with that or not. I don't know enough eval info to judge a QB in that offense personally. All throws look really good when the WR/RB/TE is 15 yards open.
That's where film work and talent evaluators will have to earn their pay. You can't punish a guy for playing with good athletes.

[teegre]

Mac Jones is a perfect fit for Bill Belichick.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Mac Jones is a perfect fit for Bill Belichick.

I agree, I don't think Jones gets past the Cheatriots* at #15.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Mac Jones is a perfect fit for Bill Belichick. Wrong and he is the perfect fit for any team that wants a very good QB for the next 10 till 15 years.

[DesertSteel]

This SI writer mocks Jones to the Steelers...

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/03/albert-breer-believes-steelers-could-draft-qb-mac-jones-pairs-the-two-in-latest-mock-draft/

[Born2Steel]

That's where film work and talent evaluators will have to earn their pay. You can't punish a guy for playing with good athletes.

Agreed. That's why I made sure to point out I'm not a qualified evaluator. Parallel to TEs. When I watch TE films they almost always seem to get a free release into their routes. QBs almost always seem to be throwing to guys running free downfield. Start getting into the footwork and other mechanics is where I fall short. I can tell if a QB is only reading right or left for a whole play or if he's working through actual progression reads but the arm talent is hard to measure on most plays.

[pczach]

Agreed. That's why I made sure to point out I'm not a qualified evaluator. Parallel to TEs. When I watch TE films they almost always seem to get a free release into their routes. QBs almost always seem to be throwing to guys running free downfield. Start getting into the footwork and other mechanics is where I fall short. I can tell if a QB is only reading right or left for a whole play or if he's working through actual progression reads but the arm talent is hard to measure on most plays.



Non of us are considered qualified evaluators by anyone because we don't get paid to do it. That doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't do it. Frankly speaking, many of us have a better track record than professionals getting paid tons of money. Anybody that tells you they know for sure until they get them in camp and see how they react under all new conditions and NFL speeds is lying to you. It is literally where the evaluation process gets tested and true abilities or the lack thereof are revealed. Everything before that is speculation and educated guesses based on a ton of film study and interviews with the players.

Mac Jones is interesting to me because he looks fantastic when you see him play, but as you say, he never has to play hurried because his OL keeps him clean and his receivers are usually running wide open. He had maybe the best complimentary running game in the country with the best OL and best RB. It just makes it so hard to know because you can't tell how quickly he processes the information, and he doesn't have to make tight throws into tight windows. He's extremely accurate, but all that changes when you must be right on the money or the ball will be incomplete or intercepted. When you have to make throws on time and anticipate because there is no time to see the throw like he did in college. That is part of the mental strain of playing the position that we can't really evaluate because he is almost never in those situations. It is an absolute requirement at the NFL level, and there is almost no way to know because he is never playing consistently under stressed circumstances.

He has a good enough arm. His leadership looks great. His grasp of the offense and how they are trying to attack the defense seems terrific. He throws the ball well down the field, but he is also able to make short and intermediate throws with touch. The problem with all of that is that if almost every read is open, the game is easy. He rarely has to go through all his reads, and when he does the OL gives him all day to do it. He also has the time to see all his throws before he has to deliver the ball.

I think he has a chance to be good if put in the right system early, with a solid running game to help him. His physical traits are average. He has a good mind, but being smart doesn't make you a great NFL quarterback. It is a specific set of skills that requires lightning fast processing of information, and the mental makeup to be able to understand enough pre-snap, but also be able to adjust post-snap and make all the throws under duress. They also have to be able to play the game with a supreme confidence in themselves. They need to believe in their hearts that they are going to make the next throw, even though they missed the last seven. Only a handful of people on the planet can do it at an extremely high level.

My gut tells me he is going to struggle when all his options aren't open, and every read isn't there for him. When he can't make every throw with perfect footwork and perfect balance because of the rush, I think he will make mistakes. When the game speeds up and the windows get smaller, I think he's more likely to be an average at best QB. I don't believe he is going to be a guy that can carry a team.

That's just my opinion, but it's as good as anyone else's.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Agreed. That's why I made sure to point out I'm not a qualified evaluator. Parallel to TEs. When I watch TE films they almost always seem to get a free release into their routes. QBs almost always seem to be throwing to guys running free downfield. Start getting into the footwork and other mechanics is where I fall short. I can tell if a QB is only reading right or left for a whole play or if he's working through actual progression reads but the arm talent is hard to measure on most plays. He passes the eyeball test to me and all that matters. He is going to be a star!

[DesertSteel]

I never saw it coming the way Jones has moved up. We'll see if it's a smoke screen or not. I think the Niners probably could have got him at 12.

[teegre]

I never saw it coming the way Jones has moved up. We'll see if it's a smoke screen or not. I think the Niners probably could have got him at 12.

Rumor is that the Taperiots are trying to get up to 4. For the first time ever, the draft would go QB QB QB QB with the first four picks. Then, the Panthers likely take a QB at 8... leaving the 12th pick out in the cold (without a QB).

[DesertSteel]

Rumor is that the Taperiots are trying to get up to 4. For the first time ever, the draft would go QB QB QB QB with the first four picks. Then, the Panthers likely take a QB at 8... leaving the 12th pick out in the cold (without a QB).
Trey Lance is such a wildcard/risk. One season. Only threw more than 23 passes twice. It's a very hard evaluation.

[Shoes]

Trey Lance is such a wildcard/risk. One season. Only threw more than 23 passes twice. It's a very hard evaluation.

It will be interesting to see how all these QB's pan out.

[ETL]

I think they will all be average and win zero SBs.

(and as you know -historical stats are on my side )

Everyone wants a shiny new toy. I remember Sam Darnold was the 2nd coming of Aaron Rodgers before his draft but now he is chopped liver.

[Steeler-in-west]

I think they will all be average and win zero SBs.

(and as you know -historical stats are on my side )

Everyone wants a shiny new toy. I remember Sam Darnold was the 2nd coming of Aaron Rodgers before his draft but now he is chopped liver.

the jets would make a lot of QB’s look like chopped liver. I wouldn’t right off Sam Darnold just yet, if he goes to a better team I still think he’ll do well, I think his college highlights would compare favorably to Mac Joneses

[EzraTank]

I personally think Trevor Lawrence is going to be a bust as well.

[ETL]

the jets would make a lot of QB’s look like chopped liver. I wouldn’t right off Sam Darnold just yet, if he goes to a better team I still think he’ll do well, I think his college highlights would compare favorably to Mac Joneses

i agree with you. I was commenting that Darnold is perceived as chopped liver after all the hype before he was drafted. I would take him over Haskins easily and would love the Steelers to throw a late 3rd rounder or a 4th rounder for him.

[86WARD]

How about a 2021 6 round pick and 2nd and 4th picks in 2022?

[DesertSteel]

How about a 2021 6 round pick and 2nd and 4th picks in 2022?
Let's do it!!! Uh-oh

[Steeler-in-west]

I always thought Darnold would do well in Pittsburgh, reminds me of Ben in his early years, so be it, Mason or Haskins it is in 22, unless they draft a QB

[cubanstogie]

I personally think Trevor Lawrence is going to be a bust as well.
so hypothetically the Steelers pick #1 and you’d pass. With his talent I can’t see how he’d be a bust, I’m sure the same was said about many can’t miss prospects.

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I always thought Darnold would do well in Pittsburgh, reminds me of Ben in his early years, so be it, Mason or Haskins it is in 22, unless they draft a QB
I’m hoping 2021! Actually not because if they play in 2021 it’s due to 0-6 start. I don’t think it’s possible for Ben to get beat out.

[Steeler-in-west]

so hypothetically the Steelers pick #1 and you’d pass. With his talent I can’t see how he’d be a bust, I’m sure the same was said about many can’t miss prospects.

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I’m hoping 2021! Actually not because if they play in 2021 it’s due to 0-6 start. I don’t think it’s possible for Ben to get beat out.

Yeah, we’re not getting a top qb prospect at 24, so hopefully Ben is playing with a revamped rushing attack and better OC support.

[DesertSteel]

so hypothetically the Steelers pick #1 and you’d pass. With his talent I can’t see how he’d be a bust, I’m sure the same was said about many can’t miss prospects.

- - - Updated - - -

I’m hoping 2021! Actually not because if they play in 2021 it’s due to 0-6 start. I don’t think it’s possible for Ben to get beat out.
Ever hear of injury? I actually wouldn’t mind Ben being out for a 4-game stretch to see what we have in Rudolph and/or Haskins.

[teegre]

Jones is going #3. Odd, but we can pretty much lock that in.

What I find interesting is that Jones ran more RPO plays than Justin Fields... but, Fields is considered the "run-first" prospect. Likewise. Jones and Trey Lance started the same number of games... yet, Lance is considered "inexperienced".

BTW: The more QBs and WRs that get drafted before our pick (24) the better. Here's to Kyle Trask being drafted by the Taperiots at 15!!!

[DesertSteel]

Funny how Trevor Lawrence is the least talked about player in the 2021 draft.

[86WARD]

Funny how Trevor Lawrence is the least talked about player in the 2021 draft.

It really is funny. It’s almost like he’s not even an option...

[BlackAndGold]

Mac Jones draft stock has been a wild ride.

Started as a 2nd rounder, to maybe late first?, mid first, now to #3 overall.

[cubanstogie]

Mac Jones draft stock has been a wild ride.

Started as a 2nd rounder, to maybe late first?, mid first, now to #3 overall.
same with Wilson. Initially he was slated for round 3. crapshoot for sure.

[teegre]

Rumor is that the Taperiots are trying to get up to 4.

This bears iteration.

[86WARD]

Justin Fields?

[ETL]

I wonder if the NFL has now evolved into basically a QB league. With all the rule changes regarding pass interference and hitting a defenseless WR and all the protection for the QB - basically which ever team has the one of the best QB wins it all.

I remember when Brady Manning or Ben took turns represented the AFC and winning the SB.

so now teams gamble everything to find that QB and win big if they do and lose big if they don’t.

we have to wonder if we like watching a game where one player matters this much.

[teegre]

Justin Fields?

That is the thinking. :nod:

The Broncos are rumored to be taking Trey Lance (or, whichever QB drops to them) at 8... which I find weird, because Drew Lock isn't awful.

What would be crazy is if the Falcons trade down to 15, and still get Trey Lance (who they likely would have taken at 4) while also getting an extra few picks. Sort of a payback on the Taperiots for "28-3". :lol:

[Born2Steel]

That is the thinking. :nod:

The Broncos are rumored to be taking Trey Lance (or, whichever QB drops to them) at 8... which I find weird, because Drew Lock isn't awful.

What would be crazy is if the Falcons trade down to 15, and still get Trey Lance (who they likely would have taken at 4) while also getting an extra few picks. Sort of a payback on the Taperiots for "28-3". :lol:

I keep hearing things out of Atlanta that Matt Ryan is 'unofficially' on the trade block. Initially I heard talk that Watson would get traded to the Falcons, and in having further conversations there is an apparent 'want to' to move on from 36 year old Matt Ryan even if the Watson trade doesn't ever happen. Understand I do not interview or anything of the sort, this is just casual conversations with people I meet daily on my job, and what they say they are hearing. SO, 3rd party rumor at best. But that is the rumor and from multiple sources.

[86WARD]

That is the thinking. :nod:

The Broncos are rumored to be taking Trey Lance (or, whichever QB drops to them) at 8... which I find weird, because Drew Lock isn't awful.

What would be crazy is if the Falcons trade down to 15, and still get Trey Lance (who they likely would have taken at 4) while also getting an extra few picks. Sort of a payback on the Taperiots for "28-3". :lol:

I heard the opposite about Denver yesterday that they were sticking with Lock. So who knows...

[86WARD]

I keep hearing things out of Atlanta that Matt Ryan is 'unofficially' on the trade block. Initially I heard talk that Watson would get traded to the Falcons, and in having further conversations there is an apparent 'want to' to move on from 36 year old Matt Ryan even if the Watson trade doesn't ever happen. Understand I do not interview or anything of the sort, this is just casual conversations with people I meet daily on my job, and what they say they are hearing. SO, 3rd party rumor at best. But that is the rumor and from multiple sources.

Ryan is probably one of the most solid and consistent QBs out there. Atlanta can’t ever put a full team together (with a competent coaching staff) to do anything...

[Born2Steel]

Ryan is probably one of the most solid and consistent QBs out there. Atlanta can’t ever put a full team together (with a competent coaching staff) to do anything...

Again, I'm not in their facility. This is just conversations with ordinary folk like us. But they are Falcons fans, so pay more attention to that rumor mill.

[teegre]

I heard the opposite about Denver yesterday that they were sticking with Lock. So who knows...

Indeed

It would be great for the Falcons to trade down to 15, acquire a bushel of picks, and still get Trey Lance. That would immmediatly be their best draft in a decade.

[EzraTank]

Indeed

It would be great for the Falcons to trade down to 15, acquire a bushel of picks, and still get Trey Lance. That would immmediatly be their best draft in a decade.

Yes but the NFL might force the Falcons to play in Florida since corporations think asking for ID to vote is racist. ;)

Seriously never been impressed with Ryan. When the heat is on he crumbles.