Fichtner and more let go ....

[Dwinsgames]

for real not opinion ...


https://www.steelers.com/news/steelers-make-coaching-staff-changes

[Devilsdancefloor]

https://www.steelers.com/news/steelers-make-coaching-staff-changes?fbclid=IwAR084-_L7k7qkTmvLFCNrFUruR1b5AciDbZMMt9t9u4FBXXmYi8Ar2t2 Kpg

[Edman]

On Steelers Twitter.

Randy is out the door, which likely means Ben is out too. I don’t think he’ll stick around to learn a whole new offense.

[W&M_Steeler]

for real not opinion ...


https://www.steelers.com/news/steelers-make-coaching-staff-changes

Awesome news! Is Butler next out the door? If your defense loaded with All-Pros can't stop an offense with a 2nd string line when it counts, if your defense has multiple playoff collapses, then maybe your defensive coordinator is not very good...

[Shoes]

Awesome news! Is Butler next out the door? If your defense loaded with All-Pros can't stop an offense with a 2nd string line when it counts, if your defense has multiple playoff collapses, then maybe your defensive coordinator is not very good...

He should be, Tomlin seems to be calling all the plays.

[Mojouw]

Well...that was pretty predictable. I think that who they hire at OC will tell us all a great deal about where they plan on going at QB.

[86WARD]

Thank God!!!

Little surprised at Bradley?

[Shoes]

Let's keep the ax swinging, Butler, Danny Smith anyone else Im forgetting? :chuckle:

[stillers4me]

Butler is expected to be year to year

[Mojouw]

He should be, Tomlin seems to be calling all the plays.

I think that when the defense leads the league in pressures and is high up in turnovers, you're likely to just keep things the same.

Could the defense have done better against the Browns? Sure. Is stuff that they come up with against empty sets and their lack of answer for a "run stopping nickel/dime package" annoying? Yes...but there are few (if any) defenses in the league that don't have a thing or three they just are not good at.

I argue that despite the frustrations, a year where you played high level defense with a rotating cast of Practice Squad level players at ILB, a rookie secondary pass rusher, and issues at 3rd/4th CB (I know that sounds ridiculous to consider, but that is almost a starting position nowadays on defense) buys you another go-round.

- - - Updated - - -


Thank God!!!

Little surprised at Bradley?

Why? He was brought in to fix things in the secondary and it is abundantly clear that Austin does what Bradley was intended to do but only better.

[86WARD]

Why? He was brought in to fix things in the secondary and it is abundantly clear that Austin does what Bradley was intended to do but only better.

Well the DBs were playing well and the fact that I totally forgot they brought Teryl Austin in...lol.

[W&M_Steeler]

I think that when the defense leads the league in pressures and is high up in turnovers, you're likely to just keep things the same.

Could the defense have done better against the Browns? Sure. Is stuff that they come up with against empty sets and their lack of answer for a "run stopping nickel/dime package" annoying? Yes...but there are few (if any) defenses in the league that don't have a thing or three they just are not good at.

I argue that despite the frustrations, a year where you played high level defense with a rotating cast of Practice Squad level players at ILB, a rookie secondary pass rusher, and issues at 3rd/4th CB (I know that sounds ridiculous to consider, but that is almost a starting position nowadays on defense) buys you another go-round.

It apparently buys you another go-round in Pittsburgh, but it shouldn't. Personally, I would have shown Butler the door with Haley after the 2017 defensive debacle against the Jags. We've been discussing the root causes of the disappointing last 10 years in the 10 years thread, and I think defensive let-downs rank high up there. When was the last time the defense had a good showing in a playoff game? 2016 Divisional Round against the Chiefs?

[Squeegee Thompson]

I'm all for the Fichtner and Sarrett canning. Surprised about Bradley. The secondary (aside from missed tackles) was a pretty solid group this year. If Fichtner leaving means Ben shuts it down as well, I think that's for the best.

Ben sticking around for another year just delays the inevitable. The SB window has slammed shut. The sooner the PIT brass accepts that fact, the sooner the rebuild / reload phase can take place.

Tomlin has proven to be a good coach when he has excellent coordinators around him. If they're substandard, the team and game plan is substandard. If they're dynamic, the team can be fantastic. I really wanna see what Canada can do when he's fully implementing his offense and system and isn't hamstrung by an OC that only can remember 5 or 6 plays out of the playbook.

[Mojouw]

It apparently buys you another go-round in Pittsburgh, but it shouldn't. Personally, I would have shown Butler the door with Haley after the 2017 defensive debacle against the Jags. We've been discussing the root causes of the disappointing last 10 years in the 10 years thread, and I think defensive let-downs rank high up there. When was the last time the defense had a good showing in a playoff game? 2016 Divisional Round against the Chiefs?

Maybe? I don't really remember. I still don't think the 2020 defense was one of the top 3 reasons the Steelers lost to the WFT, Bills, or Browns.

Further, lets assume that Tomlin is calling more of the plays or designing more of the defense than has been commonly reported. So between Butler and Austin, their jobs are to just back-stop Tomlin. He's almost certainly not going to change out guys he has "shorthand" communication with. Also, who are you going to get to come in and coordinate a defense in name only?

Whether or not we agree with it, the "move" or lack of a move makes total sense from a big overview point of view.

[W&M_Steeler]

Maybe? I don't really remember. I still don't think the 2020 defense was one of the top 3 reasons the Steelers lost to the WFT, Bills, or Browns.


I think it was one of the main reasons for the Browns playoff loss. The defense allowed too many 70+ yard TD marches. The one before halftime and the one after the 4th and 1 punt were both killers. The D somehow managed no sacks and no turnovers despite facing a Browns line full of back-ups. Also, it would have been nice to see the Defensive hold the Browns to a FG in one of the short-yardage situations. All things considered, I think the Steelers D had a bad game Sunday.

[Mojouw]

I think it was one of the main reasons for the Browns playoff loss. The defense allowed too many 70+ yard TD marches. The one before halftime and the one after the 4th and 1 punt were both killers. The D somehow managed no sacks and no turnovers despite facing a Browns line full of back-ups. Also, it would have been nice to see the Defensive hold the Browns to a FG in one of the short-yardage situations. All things considered, I think the Steelers D had a bad game Sunday.

You give ANY NFL team 5 extra possessions or whatever it was and they are going to break through, much less one of the most potent rushing teams in the league. While we can talk specific elements of scheme all day long, there were player execution and talent issues on display Sunday that really doomed the Steelers no matter what.

The first is that once Highsmith went down, the Browns just did whatever they wanted over Cassius Marsh's side. There was a reason Marsh was basically floating around the league ready to be signed at a moments notice. He is a marginal pass rusher and a mediocre (at best) run defender.

The second is that ILB was a serious problem. VW was clearly still limited by either COVID or other injuries. Spillane was not exactly looking spry either. Williamson was fine -- but that is what he is "fine", not an impact player.

Third, message board favorite Mike Hilton, had a horrible game. He was not his typical self in run support and Jarvis Landry ate him alive in pass coverage. Honestly, everyone freaked out about Spillane in coverage on Landry -- well Hilton wasn't much better. Sutton was far better in coverage on Landry.

We could then counter-argue that a defensive system that only "works" when superior talent is littering the field is a not a good system. However, which defense is getting by with just average NFL players?

[FrancoLambert]

Randy will have a bunch of teams vying for his expertise as an OC.

Sarcasm emoji not necessary here.

[86WARD]

So when does the Danny Smith news drop? Saving that for Friday?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

No real surprises here. Expected Fichtner and Sarrett to be replaced.

Dont really need 2 DB coaches and Teryl Austin is the better of the 2.

[tube517]

Dolphins requested interview of Matt Canada for OC

[pczach]

This had to happen.

[dislocatedday]

Dolphins requested interview of Matt Canada for OC

I really do not know much about Matt Canada and his credentials, but if he worked with Mason Rudolph this past year then perhaps he is really worthwhile to keep around. It was only one game, but Mason looked like a much better QB with his footwork, movement in the pocket, awareness, and going through reads more quickly and making decisive throws.

[Fire Goodell]

ding dong, randy fitch is gone!

[W&M_Steeler]

You give ANY NFL team 5 extra possessions or whatever it was and they are going to break through, much less one of the most potent rushing teams in the league. While we can talk specific elements of scheme all day long, there were player execution and talent issues on display Sunday that really doomed the Steelers no matter what.

The first is that once Highsmith went down, the Browns just did whatever they wanted over Cassius Marsh's side. There was a reason Marsh was basically floating around the league ready to be signed at a moments notice. He is a marginal pass rusher and a mediocre (at best) run defender.

The second is that ILB was a serious problem. VW was clearly still limited by either COVID or other injuries. Spillane was not exactly looking spry either. Williamson was fine -- but that is what he is "fine", not an impact player.

Third, message board favorite Mike Hilton, had a horrible game. He was not his typical self in run support and Jarvis Landry ate him alive in pass coverage. Honestly, everyone freaked out about Spillane in coverage on Landry -- well Hilton wasn't much better. Sutton was far better in coverage on Landry.

I'd be more sympathetic to the injury argument if the Browns weren't similarly limited on offense. Yes, Marsh was terrible and Spillane didn't look 100%. But is that enough to excuse such a performance when you still have Watt, Heyward, and Tuitt? I don't think so. This wasn't the Chiefs, or even the Bills. This was the Browns, playing with an offensive line of back-ups (one of whom just joined that day, which should even out the Marsh issue a little bit). I think the Steelers' on-field defensive talent was still good enough that they should have had a better performance.

The Offense set them up in tough spots early, but the D didn't rise to the occasion. The Defense only faced three extra possessions that mattered- the Pouncey snap led directly to a TD and doesn't count against the Defense, and the late game INT was during desperation time when the game was essentially over barring a miracle. Of the three possessions the Defense faced, they got one stop at mid-field and allowed two TDs. Even holding one of those to a FG drive would have helped. Besides, except for the 3rd quarter, D didn't do that great with long fields either, allowing three long TD drives and one long FG drive while creating no turnovers. Although I am sympathetic to the argument that the O was more at fault for the loss, the D certainly deserves its share of the blame too.


We could then counter-argue that a defensive system that only "works" when superior talent is littering the field is a not a good system. However, which defense is getting by with just average NFL players?

I think that's a great point. A defense that only works when there's a big talent advantage and falls apart when a starter is injured is not an optimal defensive system, IMO. Besides, I think this defense was somewhat overrated even before the injuries and not as good as its mid-2019 peak. Remember that Jeff Driskel gave this defense all it could handle and the Carson Wentz - Travis Fulgham connection gashed it all before Bush was injured. And the Steelers made Cowboys 4th stringer Gilbert look like a good starter despite having a healthy Dupree.

I would prefer that Butler be replaced by a real DC who calls the plays. Butler seems to have only received the job in the first place as a reward for not leaving when LeBeau stayed on longer than expected, and he keeps it now despite not doing all of the things a DC is normally expected to do. I think this Defense could benefit from some fresh ideas.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Dolphins requested interview of Matt Canada for OC

I think it was noted that Canada was not in consideration for OC by the Steelers. DesertSteel had a reference.

Some guys on the street with experience are recently fired head coaches:
- Doug Pederson
-Anthony Lynn
-Doug Marrone

Some other guys talked about for jobs are :
-Ken Dorsey- Buffalo QB coach
-Ken Waldron- Rams passing game coordinator
- Pep Hamilton- Chargers QB coach
-Mike Kafka- Chiefs pass game coordinator (although Philly was to interview him for HC job)
-Mike LaFleur- San Fran pass game coordinator

[Dissolv]

On Smith -- special teams improved this year, and was at times even a positive contributor. I can understand why he wasn't let go this year specifically. Fichtner could be their way to showing Ben that the door is open to leave, but more likely just timing. His contract was up and that's when the Steelers do it.

I don't get the DB coach non-renewal, but it could be other things than performance of the DB's?? OL coach is a rough gig right now, with the line aging in dog-years like it is. I would love to see some old fashioned nasty road grader types, but so long as we have Ben, we are going to need pass-defense first guys, and for whatever reason, that seems to mean finesse. I would expect that the new OC will start to put his stamp on the team going forward, but it will take a few years to get all the pieces in place. A line that can consistently get a push would be high on my list of asks.

[Mojouw]

I'd be more sympathetic to the injury argument if the Browns weren't similarly limited on offense. Yes, Marsh was terrible and Spillane didn't look 100%. But is that enough to excuse such a performance when you still have Watt, Heyward, and Tuitt? I don't think so. This wasn't the Chiefs, or even the Bills. This was the Browns, playing with an offensive line of back-ups (one of whom just joined that day, which should even out the Marsh issue a little bit). I think the on-field talent was still good enough that they should have had a better performance.

The Offense set them up in tough spots early, but the D didn't rise to the occasion. The Defense only faced three extra possessions that mattered- the Pouncey snap led directly to a TD and doesn't count against the Defense, and the late game INT was during desperation time when the game was essentially over barring a miracle. Of the three possessions the Defense faced, they got one stop at mid-field and allowed two TDs. Even holding one of those to a FG drive would have helped. Besides, except for the 3rd quarter, D didn't do that great with long fields either, allowing three long TD drives and one long FG drive while creating no turnovers. Although I am sympathetic to the argument that the O was more at fault for the loss, the D certainly deserves its share of the blame too.



I think that's a great point. A defense that only works when there's a big talent advantage and falls apart when a starter is injured is not an optimal defensive system, IMO. Besides, I think this defense was somewhat overrated even before the injuries and not as good as its mid-2019 peak. Remember that Jeff Driskel gave this defense all it could handle and the Carson Wentz - Travis Fulgham connection gashed it all before Bush was injured. And the Steelers made Cowboys 4th stringer Gilbert look like a good starter despite having a healthy Dupree.

I would prefer that Butler be replaced by a real DC who calls the plays. Butler seems to have only received the job in the first place as a reward for not leaving when LeBeau stayed on longer than expected, and he keeps it now despite not doing all of the things a DC is normally expected to do. I think this Defense could benefit from some fresh ideas.

What current NFL defense works without a massive talent advantage? Again, this is not mounting some massive defense of Butler or anything, but this is a constant debate that the defense isn't this or that. However, the things most fans appear to want is some cross of the 86 Bears and the 00 Ravens. Ain't no one doing that anymore. The NFL has changed things to so favor offense that it is ridiculous. But lets leave that aside for now.

The biggest thing about the defensive coaching is what seems to be slowly leaking out about how it functions. Butler is basically the linebackers coach with input on game planning. Austin appears to be the secondary coach with an additional focus on preparing players to create turnovers. Dunbar seems responsible for the D line and some elements of the pass rush approach for the OLBs. Tomlin appears to be playing a far larger role in game planning and game-day calling than has been previously been publicly reported.

Taking all that into account...you appear to have a highly split and delegated set of defensive responsibilities. Until Tomlin does not want to function as a secondary DC...this isn't going to be a high profile position that attracts big coaching talent.

[st33lersguy]

Thank God. And Sarrett is gone too. Double good riddance.

[Edman]

The Defense was the reason why 2019 was even remotely competitive. That’s why Butler earned another year.

For years and years now we have been waiting for the Offense to get its shit together with a franchise QB, and it never did. The experiment has to stop here.

[Born2Steel]

The old saying is, stop the run first and make a team have to pass. Listening to coaches today though they say it is the opposite. Stop the pass first to make teams try to run. I have heard this on several shows and/or podcasts over this past season. In one of the conversations they talked about the Buffalo game and how the Bill's defense lined up DBs in press man to knock the Steelers' WRs off their routes and slowing down any quick release and throws from Ben. The Steelers had success running a 'throw short/run long' style offense against teams that didn't play press well, but struggled to win when teams could press. The conversation turned to how some OCs scheme for matchups and how others system scheme. I think RF was more in the system mindset as an OC and while the system he ran helped win 12 games it was also easily out-coached by the better DCs in the league.

I don't know what the future makeup of this offense will be. Many holes left to fill right now. But I do think a change at OC and the rebuild of the offense as a whole, has come together in perfect timing. A new OC coming in with the younger talent on this roster is kind of exciting and hopeful for a quick turn around with better days ahead. Yes, I am always the optimist but who wants to be the pessimist anyway?

[W&M_Steeler]

What current NFL defense works without a massive talent advantage? Again, this is not mounting some massive defense of Butler or anything, but this is a constant debate that the defense isn't this or that. However, the things most fans appear to want is some cross of the 86 Bears and the 00 Ravens. Ain't no one doing that anymore. The NFL has changed things to so favor offense that it is ridiculous. But lets leave that aside for now.

I'm not expecting a defense missing some of its stars due to injury to be an elite, all-time great defense. I'm just saying that a defense that still has three All-Pros and several other very good players on the field, especially on the defensive line, should give a better showing against a team starting a second-string offensive line. I don't think that's an unreasonable position.

I think that the Steelers have used too many high round picks on defense during this extended rebuild. I'd rather the Steelers shoot for a good defense that is relatively strong against the run and opportunistic in the pass game than try to create some elite defense full of 1st round draft picks that isn't all that elite in truth and takes a nose dive when one of the players gets injured. Injuries are inevitable, especially on defense. Given the rules changes of the past two decades, I'd rather invest the majority of my picks and money into the offense and have a defense that's mostly interchangable parts.


The biggest thing about the defensive coaching is what seems to be slowly leaking out about how it functions. Butler is basically the linebackers coach with input on game planning. Austin appears to be the secondary coach with an additional focus on preparing players to create turnovers. Dunbar seems responsible for the D line and some elements of the pass rush approach for the OLBs. Tomlin appears to be playing a far larger role in game planning and game-day calling than has been previously been publicly reported.

Taking all that into account...you appear to have a highly split and delegated set of defensive responsibilities. Until Tomlin does not want to function as a secondary DC...this isn't going to be a high profile position that attracts big coaching talent.

I think that's unfortunate, as this system hasn't produced what it should have given all the resources dumped into it over the past several drafts. I wish Tomlin would see the value in having some fresh eyes review the situation. The product on the field hasn't been good enough.

- - - Updated - - -


The Defense was the reason why 2019 was even remotely competitive. That’s why Butler earned another year.

For years and years now we have been waiting for the Offense to get its shit together with a franchise QB, and it never did. The experiment has to stop here.

I'd say it did in 2017. The Steelers' offense wasn't the problem that year. The D couldn't stop the Jags.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

On Smith -- special teams improved this year, and was at times even a positive contributor. I can understand why he wasn't let go this year specifically. Fichtner could be their way to showing Ben that the door is open to leave, but more likely just timing. His contract was up and that's when the Steelers do it.

I don't get the DB coach non-renewal, but it could be other things than performance of the DB's?? OL coach is a rough gig right now, with the line aging in dog-years like it is. I would love to see some old fashioned nasty road grader types, but so long as we have Ben, we are going to need pass-defense first guys, and for whatever reason, that seems to mean finesse. I would expect that the new OC will start to put his stamp on the team going forward, but it will take a few years to get all the pieces in place. A line that can consistently get a push would be high on my list of asks.

The DB coach was redundant. He was hired the year before Teryl Austin (DB coach) became available and I think they did an honorable thing in keeping them both until Bradley's contract was up. Teryl Austin coached great secondaries in Arizona, Seattle and Detroit. All of them were top in league turnovers when he coached them, so him staying over Bradley is expected.

O line is fine. The problem was offensive system and blocking schemes. The Steelers O line appeared at times to look to wall off seams in the defense, rather than gain ground in the run game. Its not just a matter of taking a zone steps, they didnt finish blocks, which is weird scheme to me. If we assume free agents like AV and Feiler are gone, but Pouncey returns, the O line looks like below and will be fine. (Good chance Banner comes back as per a positive comment by him on Twitter)

Okorafor LT, Dotson LG, Pouncey, DeCastro, Banner-RT.

Hawkins may be back in the competition and I wish they kept Derwin Gray from being poached off the practice squad, but a few other projects on the Steelers practice squad, like Legule from Tulane who is a good pass protector and was AAC All Academic team. (intelligence helps on the O line).

[Mojouw]

I'd say it did in 2017. The Steelers' offense wasn't the problem that year. The D couldn't stop the Jags.

I don't think any team playing that set of "run stoppers" at inside linebacker would have stopped anyone. I have no interest in re-litigating that game. I argue that the personnel decisions made every off-season after that game provide a massive amount of insight into what the Steelers think went wrong in that game and what the appropriate fixes were.

Additionally, I don't see how anyone can use the Jags game as evidence of failure and then turn around and argue that there were too many resources put into the defense. If you want to not have a defense whose weakness can be exposed dramtically, you need to have highly skilled players at (at least) key positions. Those dudes cost a ton of FA $$$ or high draft picks.

But we have wandered WAY off-topic for what is intended to be mostly a thread about the coaches that were fired...not those that could be fired.

[W&M_Steeler]

I don't think any team playing that set of "run stoppers" at inside linebacker would have stopped anyone. I have no interest in re-litigating that game. I argue that the personnel decisions made every off-season after that game provide a massive amount of insight into what the Steelers think went wrong in that game and what the appropriate fixes were.

Additionally, I don't see how anyone can use the Jags game as evidence of failure and then turn around and argue that there were too many resources put into the defense. If you want to not have a defense whose weakness can be exposed dramtically, you need to have highly skilled players at (at least) key positions. Those dudes cost a ton of FA $$$ or high draft picks.

But we have wandered WAY off-topic for what is intended to be mostly a thread about the coaches that were fired...not those that could be fired.

Having Jarvis Jones, Artie Burns, Senquez Golson, and Sean Davis all bust, plus permanently losing Shazier and Dupree blooming really late, really hindered the defensive rebuild and helped contribute to the 2017 defense being worse than it should have been. If you're going to put all of your eggs in one basket for a few years, you better hope that your choices turn out well. I'm still formulating my opinion about all of this, but I'm starting to think that it's simply riskier to try to build a defensive-oriented team than to build an offensive-oriented team given the change in rules focus to favor the offense. You have more room for error and bad injury luck on the offensive side (with the huge exception of QB, of course- the wrong QB can sink your team for years) .

That said, good riddance to Fichtner and Sarrett.

[EzraTank]

Me reading this!

https://media3.giphy.com/media/iHDgzzjT28EQmZbdXF/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e4761ac86eae90f4d15555735700794 a5b39daf0a22&rid=giphy.gif

https://media3.giphy.com/media/l0CLVkXrFf522IKoU/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47c8e5a1f2c20b27bda2dfb3b5adfc 5d6a32cf4cf6&rid=giphy.gif <-- and and AWOMEN!

[tube517]

1349792659414650881

[Shoes]

1349792659414650881


Im ok with that, maybe he's the one saying the steelers don't need a TE. :chuckle:

[pczach]

1349792659414650881



This coaching staff needs a little purge.

There's a lot happening very quickly. I'm sure we're going to be hearing a lot more in coming days.

[EzraTank]

Awesome news! Is Butler next out the door? If your defense loaded with All-Pros can't stop an offense with a 2nd string line when it counts, if your defense has multiple playoff collapses, then maybe your defensive coordinator is not very good...

The only thing I seeing saving him is that he did lose 75% of his starting LBers this year.

[Fire Goodell]

The only thing I seeing saving him is that he did lose 75% of his starting LBers this year.

not to mention 2 of em being pro bowl level guys and another the NFL defensive MVP

[Shoes]

Well this is pretty strange. Tomlin has been calling a lot of the D this year and in past years. What in the hell is butler doing if he still has the title öf DC?

[EzraTank]

What in the hell is butler doing if he still has the title öf DC?

https://media1.giphy.com/media/TiUwq0GmNgQzyT7nhX/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47pu9tws23jgi9p0wg4wkb631doh6v of017aymbpno&rid=giphy.gif

[W&M_Steeler]

The only thing I seeing saving him is that he did lose 75% of his starting LBers this year.

50%. Dupree and Bush. But he still had 3 All-Pros on the field for the playoffs, along with several other very good players against a depleted Browns offense. Marsh was trash, but is that enough to give him a pass? Not in my view.

- - - Updated - - -


not to mention 2 of em being pro bowl level guys and another the NFL defensive MVP

I'm not sure who you're referencing.

[EzraTank]

50%. Dupree and Bush. He still had 3 All-Pros on the field for the playoffs, along with several other very good players. Marsh was trash, but is that enough to give him a pass? Not in my view.

No, down the stretch they lost Dupree, Bush, Williams (COVID19), Spillane and Highsmith (during the playoff game). At one point they were playing a safety for Pete's sake at LB. Like I said in other posts losing Dupree was a Bridge Too Far. With him gone teams could run away from TJ or double team him when they needed to.

[W&M_Steeler]

No, down the stretch they lost Dupree, Bush, Williams (COVID19), Spillane and Highsmith during the playoff game. They were playing a safety for Pete's sake at LB. Like I said in other posts losing Dupree was a Bridge Too Far. With him gone teams could run away from TJ or double team him when they needed to.

Williams was back before the playoffs, right? At the very least he played in the playoff game.

And if you need three All Pros up front to have any semblance of a run defense, what's that say about your scheme and your coaching?

[Shoes]

No, down the stretch they lost Dupree, Bush, Williams (COVID19), Spillane and Highsmith (during the playoff game). At one point they were playing a safety for Pete's sake at LB. Like I said in other posts losing Dupree was a Bridge Too Far. With him gone teams could run away from TJ or double team him when they needed to.

Where is Jason Dong Worilds when you need him. :chuckle:

[EzraTank]

Williams was back before the playoffs, right? At the very least he played in the playoff game.

And if you need three All Pros up front to have any semblance of a run defense, what's that say about your scheme and your coaching?

No I'm saying that during their losing streak they lost most of their LBers. Yes Williams was back but they were still running at 50% with Spillane gone as was Haden. Do you agree that our defense was much different before those two guys went down?

[W&M_Steeler]

No I'm saying that during their losing streak they lost most of their LBers. Yes Williams was back but they were still running at 50% with Spillane gone as was Haden. Do you agree that our defense was much different before those two guys went down?

Spillane was back for the playoff game too, though he didn't look 100%. I wonder if they would have been better off sticking with Williamson.

I don't have much patience for the injury excuse given what the Browns were dealing with that game.

Regardless, looks like he's staying on, so we have to hope for the best. Maybe next year will be a magical year with no injuries on defense.

[BlackAndGold]

I hope they go out and a find a creative offensive mind at OC.

[Dwinsgames]

I hope they go out and a find a creative offensive mind at OC.

if Ben is staying we likely see Canada as OC , if they are trying to push him out then they look outside IMO

[Born2Steel]

I hope they go out and a find a creative offensive mind at OC.

I hope they find a fundamentally sound football coach. This organization has the reputation for long term success and stability. I want that to continue. I don't want some gimmicky offense that works for a couple seasons until teams figure it out. Basic fundamental football still wins the day.

[Craic]

This, honestly, is the first of the last three or so OC coaches that I am happy about being let go. With the previous two, I was okay with them but interested in what else could be done. I had high hopes for Fichtner. They didn't pan out. Hopefully Canada can fill that role.

[BlackAndGold]

Sarrett wasn't that bad of a coach. Guys like Dotson, Chuk, Feiler(at RT) developed and played very well under Sarrett. What was/is needed is an OC that has a scheme change in mind to fix the running game.

Fans point to Munchak leaving for the decline of the o-line. Some context is needed.. Foster aged and retired, Gilbert became injury prone and traded, Pouncey started to age and now DeCastro has started too also, AV has never been much of a run blocker. Le'Veon Bell was a big part of the reason the running game was great, he was a truly special player with insane vision and patients.

The o-line will continue to be retooled in the next 2 years.

[Mojouw]

I hope they find a fundamentally sound football coach. This organization has the reputation for long term success and stability. I want that to continue. I don't want some gimmicky offense that works for a couple seasons until teams figure it out. Basic fundamental football still wins the day.

I feel like the big "missing" elements of the Steelers offense are motion, play-action, and a bit more RPO/College stuff. Basically what Canada was intended to bring and what we saw more of when Rudolph was in.

I would propose that those are (despite what Ben Roethlisberger might say!) fundamental aspects of football.

The one thing I would REALLY like to see the Steelers incorporate (and in a sense return to) is running a number of plays out of the same grouping and alignment. They used to be pretty good at this in Haley's day out of that 3 player bunch/stack. I think this will be super important (not the 3 player stack but running alot of plays out of the same look) in 2021+ because you will no longer have an experienced QB at the helm. More of what the Browns and 49ers do to ease the burden on their QBs.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Sarrett wasn't that bad of a coach. Guys like Dotson, Chuk, Feiler(at RT) developed and played very well under Sarrett. What was/is needed is an OC that has a scheme change in mind to fix the running game.

Fans point to Munchak leaving for the decline of the o-line. Some context is needed.. Foster aged and retired, Gilbert became injury prone and traded, Pouncey started to age and now DeCastro has started too also, AV has never been much of a run blocker. Le'Veon Bell was a big part of the reason the running game was great, he was a truly special player with insane vision and patients.

The o-line will continue to be retooled in the next 2 years.

What did you like about what Sarrett did as an O line coach?

Do you think the Steelers ran similar run plays/offensive type with Bell as RB, as they did after Bell left and Bell just made them look good, but Conner could not?

[Fire Goodell]

I'm not sure who you're referencing.

Bush, Dupree, Watt

Any of those one are big shoes to fill, losing all 3 is insurmountable

[W&M_Steeler]

Bush, Dupree, Watt

Any of those one are big shoes to fill, losing all 3 is insurmountable

When did they lose Watt?

[Born2Steel]

I feel like the big "missing" elements of the Steelers offense are motion, play-action, and a bit more RPO/College stuff. Basically what Canada was intended to bring and what we saw more of when Rudolph was in.

I would propose that those are (despite what Ben Roethlisberger might say!) fundamental aspects of football.

The one thing I would REALLY like to see the Steelers incorporate (and in a sense return to) is running a number of plays out of the same grouping and alignment. They used to be pretty good at this in Haley's day out of that 3 player bunch/stack. I think this will be super important (not the 3 player stack but running alot of plays out of the same look) in 2021+ because you will no longer have an experienced QB at the helm. More of what the Browns and 49ers do to ease the burden on their QBs.

Absolutely. I do think motion and play-action are a fundamental part of pre-snap and post-snap reads. Some QBs are just better at pre-snap reads with/without motion than others so there will be a difference in effectiveness from team to team. Same in post-snap reads with watching LBs/Safeties at the snap. Play-action is not completely dependent on the QB alone though. The defenses are making reads too and play-action takes more than just fake a handoff. The Steelers were just not good at it in recent years. I don't know exactly why, I'm sure there are multiple reasons. Mostly I think it was due to the Fichtner 'throw short/run long' offensive system and play calls. With a more run committed offensive approach maybe play-action can be a successful and viable part of the Steelers offense again.

Agreed I would love to have this option but from how I understand the scheme, which is very little, a successful RPO offense requires a QB that is a threat to run or throw. Even when using a 'bell cow' RB, an RPO suggests the possibility of hand-off, QB run, or play-action pass from the same formations, as you alluded to. I don't see this being run successfully by Ben or Rudolph. Maybe the next guy? I think Tannehill has been a very good RPO QB for the Titans.

[BlackAndGold]

What did you like about what Sarrett did as an O line coach?

Do you think the Steelers ran similar run plays/offensive type with Bell as RB, as they did after Bell left and Bell just made them look good, but Conner could not?

Though I'm not an o-line/scheme expert, I liked how Sarrett developed Dotson, Chuk and Feiler, though Feiler was here under Munchak but Sarrett was just involved as an assistant coach.

I'd have to go back and research some charting but it seems like they played under center a lot more with Bell, which puts the o-line in a better position to open up running holes. Some of that blame goes toward Ben since he doesn't enjoy being under center.

Overall, I'm not going to dismiss the age and decline of the players that that were apart of that group.. AV/Foster/Pouncey/DD/Gilbert were all Pro Bowl caliber players in their prime, two of which were multiple time All-Pros. Conner is a solid back but he isn't Bell, we all watched that man create negative plays into big positives, Conner can't do that. Bell running the ball was like art.

[Fire Goodell]

When did they lose Watt?

some guy named cassius darsh was playing half the game vs cleveland

[Mojouw]

Absolutely. I do think motion and play-action are a fundamental part of pre-snap and post-snap reads. Some QBs are just better at pre-snap reads with/without motion than others so there will be a difference in effectiveness from team to team. Same in post-snap reads with watching LBs/Safeties at the snap. Play-action is not completely dependent on the QB alone though. The defenses are making reads too and play-action takes more than just fake a handoff. The Steelers were just not good at it in recent years. I don't know exactly why, I'm sure there are multiple reasons. Mostly I think it was due to the Fichtner 'throw short/run long' offensive system and play calls. With a more run committed offensive approach maybe play-action can be a successful and viable part of the Steelers offense again.

Agreed I would love to have this option but from how I understand the scheme, which is very little, a successful RPO offense requires a QB that is a threat to run or throw. Even when using a 'bell cow' RB, an RPO suggests the possibility of hand-off, QB run, or play-action pass from the same formations, as you alluded to. I don't see this being run successfully by Ben or Rudolph. Maybe the next guy? I think Tannehill has been a very good RPO QB for the Titans.

Yeah. the specifics of how to implement that stuff and what players you do or don't need is not my bag either.

What I wonder is what a new OC will have to say about Ben and Conner? Does he come and tell Tomlin, Colbert, etc. that his breakdown of the film shows a QB that can still get it done or one that is washed? What about Conner? Does a new OC see a dual-threat RB (lets leave health aside for a moment) or does he see a flawed below the line back?

I guess what I am trying to say is do they look for an OC that says "I can get more out of the roster you have (and yes I know that Conner is a UFA)" or do they go with a guy that is more "This is what I run and you need to get me these guys so I can run it."

[BlackAndGold]

Per Dulac, Teryl Austin is interviewing with the Titans to be their DC.

[Shoes]

Per Dulac, Teryl Austin is interviewing with the Titans to be their DC.

So the Steelers will let Austin go and keep Butler?

[BlackAndGold]

What they don't want to interview Butler?

Age, I'm assuming.

Austin has made a big impact since coming to the Steelers. He would be a loss.

[86WARD]

So the Steelers will let Austin go and keep Butler?

Austin wasn’t that good as a DC if Imremember correctly?

Still not seeing the words DANNY or SMITH anywhere in this thread...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Though I'm not an o-line/scheme expert, I liked how Sarrett developed Dotson, Chuk and Feiler, though Feiler was here under Munchak but Sarrett was just involved as an assistant coach.

I'd have to go back and research some charting but it seems like they played under center a lot more with Bell, which puts the o-line in a better position to open up running holes. Some of that blame goes toward Ben since he doesn't enjoy being under center.

Overall, I'm not going to dismiss the age and decline of the players that that were apart of that group.. AV/Foster/Pouncey/DD/Gilbert were all Pro Bowl caliber players in their prime, two of which were multiple time All-Pros. Conner is a solid back but he isn't Bell, we all watched that man create negative plays into big positives, Conner can't do that. Bell running the ball was like art.

I dont think Sarrett was that good of an O line coach, at least not what is needed at the NFL, but I also dont think that Fichtner's offense did him any favors.

Dotson started 4 years at Louisiana and was an All American last year in college. I dont think a lot of development was on Sarrett, as much as the young man has a lot of skills, strength, athleticism, experience and long arms for pass protection.

Think back to LeVeon Bell and how every commentator mentioned he was so "patient" to wait for his blocking to setup. Then think of what we saw the past couple years with Sarrett. It looked like the O line was not staying on their blocks that long, in order for any RB to be "patient", as much as they were trying to get to a shoulder and establish a seam. I think there was a difference in philosophy in how to block between Sarrett...OR it was a difference of how Fichtner wanted things blocked up or run.

Lots of dynamics between O line coach and OC, when it comes to offensive system. Maybe Fichtner wanted things a different way, but wasn't going to override the HOF in Munchak, but when Sarrett was there he changed the blocking scheme? Maybe Sarrett changed the scheme once he became the guy? I dont know, but all I know is that I am glad they are both gone, because the rhythm of the playcalling sucked and the run game blocking scheme and finish sucked.

[Dwinsgames]

I dont think Sarrett was that good of an O line coach, at least not what is needed at the NFL, but I also dont think that Fichtner's offense did him any favors.

Dotson started 4 years at Louisiana and was an All American last year in college. I dont think a lot of development was on Sarrett, as much as the young man has a lot of skills, strength, athleticism, experience and long arms for pass protection.

Think back to LeVeon Bell and how every commentator mentioned he was so "patient" to wait for his blocking to setup. Then think of what we saw the past couple years with Sarrett. It looked like the O line was not staying on their blocks that long, in order for any RB to be "patient", as much as they were trying to get to a shoulder and establish a seam. I think there was a difference in philosophy in how to block between Sarrett...OR it was a difference of how Fichtner wanted things blocked up or run.

Lots of dynamics between O line coach and OC, when it comes to offensive system. Maybe Fichtner wanted things a different way, but wasn't going to override the HOF in Munchak, but when Sarrett was there he changed the blocking scheme? Maybe Sarrett changed the scheme once he became the guy? I dont know, but all I know is that I am glad they are both gone, because the rhythm of the playcalling sucked and the run game blocking scheme and finish sucked.

I will co sponsor the above ..this line regressed each year it was removed from Munchak in both pass blocking and run blocking , they never constantly won the leverage battle in the run game technique continued to wain ...

[W&M_Steeler]

some guy named cassius darsh was playing half the game vs cleveland

Marsh was filling in for Dupree / Highsmith. Watt played the whole game as far as I am aware.

[Shoes]

Austin wasn’t that good as a DC if Imremember correctly?

Still not seeing the words DANNY or SMITH anywhere in this thread...


He's done a great job keeping every steeler player 10 yards from the opposing teams punter this season.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Austin wasn’t that good as a DC if Imremember correctly?

Still not seeing the words DANNY or SMITH anywhere in this thread...

I think he had a good year in Detroit where the defense lead the league in INT, then a lackluster year. Still, the guy was on the Seahawks staff around the time of SBXL I think and that was a good secondary. Likewise in Arizona 3 years later when Tomlin and the Steelers beat the Cards in SBXLIII.

Austin is a good football coach, with a mindset for takeaways. Be a shame to lose him, but such is the NFL.

[Fire Goodell]

HIRE ARIANS! :chuckle:

[teegre]

So the Steelers will let Austin go and keep Butler?

The way that I read it, the Titans are interested in Austin (Austin is not being released by the Steelers).

Conversely, no one is interested in Butler.

- - - Updated - - -

I will add this:

During Munchak's last season with the Steelers, the rushing offense ranked 31st.

[pczach]

I dont think Sarrett was that good of an O line coach, at least not what is needed at the NFL, but I also dont think that Fichtner's offense did him any favors.

Dotson started 4 years at Louisiana and was an All American last year in college. I dont think a lot of development was on Sarrett, as much as the young man has a lot of skills, strength, athleticism, experience and long arms for pass protection.

Think back to LeVeon Bell and how every commentator mentioned he was so "patient" to wait for his blocking to setup. Then think of what we saw the past couple years with Sarrett. It looked like the O line was not staying on their blocks that long, in order for any RB to be "patient", as much as they were trying to get to a shoulder and establish a seam. I think there was a difference in philosophy in how to block between Sarrett...OR it was a difference of how Fichtner wanted things blocked up or run.

Lots of dynamics between O line coach and OC, when it comes to offensive system. Maybe Fichtner wanted things a different way, but wasn't going to override the HOF in Munchak, but when Sarrett was there he changed the blocking scheme? Maybe Sarrett changed the scheme once he became the guy? I dont know, but all I know is that I am glad they are both gone, because the rhythm of the playcalling sucked and the run game blocking scheme and finish sucked.



This is pretty much what I think about it.

Sarrett may have had his hands tied with the offense and schemes Fichtner forced him to work with. He could only do so much based on the dynamics you talk about. If you play football long enough, you will always see pretty good coaches that are caught up in bad situations for one reason or another.

[katmandu]

Awesome news! Is Butler next out the door? If your defense loaded with All-Pros can't stop an offense with a 2nd string line when it counts, if your defense has multiple playoff collapses, then maybe your defensive coordinator is not very good...Can't do it with 1's hurt and playing multiple backups. Must have high quality depth which we do not have. Not Coach's fault players got hurt.

[W&M_Steeler]

Can't do it with 1's hurt and playing multiple backups. Must have high quality depth which we do not have. Not Coach's fault players got hurt.

I'm not buying that excuse against the Browns. We've hashed out this argument already on this thread, so you can go back and read the arguments if you want to.

[BlackAndGold]

Experienced OC targets.

Brian Schottenheimer, former Seattle OC
Jay Gruden, Former Bengals OC/Wash HC/current Jags OC
Anthony Lynn, Former Chargers HC.

Inexperienced OC targets but could come with upside.
Ken Dorsey: Bills QB coach
Mike Kafka: Chiefs QB coach/passing coordinator
Matt Weiss: Ravens RB coach

[Six Rings]

I hope they go out and a find a creative offensive mind at OC.

1 ) Tomlin track record for hiring them is pretty poor. Haley_Fichtner

2 ) We still don't know who the QB is fr 2021.

3 ) Tomlin himself could be gone next year, and the new head coach could bring in " His guy "

Consider all of the above and riddle me this. What What OC worth his weight is going to want to coach for Pittsburgh unless it's an only option?

[Born2Steel]

1 ) Tomlin track record for hiring them is pretty poor. Haley_Fichtner

2 ) We still don't know who the QB is fr 2021.

3 ) Tomlin himself could be gone next year, and the new head coach could bring in " His guy "

Consider all of the above and riddle me this. What What OC worth his weight is going to want to coach for Pittsburgh unless it's an only option?

3 ) The OC that wants to be on the short list to be the next HC for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

[Dwinsgames]

1 ) Tomlin track record for hiring them is pretty poor. Haley_Fichtner

2 ) We still don't know who the QB is fr 2021.

3 ) Tomlin himself could be gone next year, and the new head coach could bring in " His guy "

Consider all of the above and riddle me this. What What OC worth his weight is going to want to coach for Pittsburgh unless it's an only option?

if memory serves Haley was a Art II Hire or so the rumor mill would have one to believe because of his Steeler ties

[pczach]

if memory serves Haley was a Art II Hire or so the rumor mill would have one to believe because of his Steeler ties



I think you are correct.

The organization is know for having and keeping the power in decision-making when it comes to coordinators and assistant coaches. That has helped them keep head coaches in place because they install many of the coaching pieces around them, so ultimately, the organization is on the hook for bad decisions instead of burning the whole thing down to ashes.

That has served them well keeping stability at the head coaching position.

[BlackAndGold]

1 ) Tomlin track record for hiring them is pretty poor. Haley_Fichtner

2 ) We still don't know who the QB is fr 2021.

3 ) Tomlin himself could be gone next year, and the new head coach could bring in " His guy "

Consider all of the above and riddle me this. What What OC worth his weight is going to want to coach for Pittsburgh unless it's an only option?

Haley was a AR2 hire if I remember correctly, so was Canada I believe(maybe AR2 needs to step back?). Ben is big fan of Fichtner and Tomlin's passed connection with him got him the job.


Some solid points overall but Tomlin is here to stay, unless it's a complete collapse. We can talk about Tomlin being on the hot seat but the reality is the seat is cool, I'm sure coaches around the league knows that.

[Six Rings]

Haley was a AR2 hire if I remember correctly, so was Canada I believe(maybe AR2 needs to step back?). Ben is big fan of Fichtner and Tomlin's passed connection with him got him the job.


Some solid points overall but Tomlin is here to stay, unless it's a complete collapse. We can talk about Tomlin being on the hot seat but the reality is the seat is cool, I'm sure coaches around the league knows that.

Oh, his contract is up next year, and I do not see Art offering a new one. Next year we have a tough schedule, a cap problem in free agency, and Ben either retired or on his last legs. I predict a losing season and no playoffs. That's enough for Tomlin not to get a new contract.

The seat is warm.

- - - Updated - - -


3 ) The OC that wants to be on the short list to be the next HC for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Hmmm, maybe, but I don't see it. We bring in the best out there for 2022. Who wouldn't want the rebuilding job the Steelers history and an easy owner to work with?

[BlackAndGold]

Oh, his contract is up next year, and I do not see Art offering a new one. Next year we have a tough schedule, a cap problem in free agency, and Ben either retired or on his last legs. I predict a losing season and no playoffs. That's enough for Tomlin not to get a new contract.

The seat is warm.

That's enough for Tomlin not to get blamed and get a contract extension.

[Steel Peon]

Can we fire SOMEONE please?!
I guess I have to be happy, because it's something... And someone(s).

[BlackAndGold]

The Steelers missed the playoffs 3 years in a row between 98'-00', two of which were losing seasons, Cowher still got a contract extension before the 01' season.

I for one believe Tomlin should be on the hot seat but this is how the Steelers do business.

[CV1]

Tomlin’s seat is not even warm.

He is the Steelers coach for at least the next 2 years... and longer if Ben retires this year.

Let’s say Ben walks this year... we know Rudy is the QB moving forward for at least a year... then if we somehow with the 2021 schedule end up 8-8 or 9-6... Tomlin is there for 2022.

Then if said new OC and Rudy click and things show promise... my goodness... 2 more years [emoji1787]

When the presidential election cycle comes around again... we can look back at this and laugh and go... “we blame CV1 for Tomlin still being here” [emoji2957]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NCSteeler]

Well the DBs were playing well and the fact that I totally forgot they brought Teryl Austin in...lol.Austin interviewed for DC with Titans

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[teegre]

Anthony Lynn, Former Chargers HC


:willy:

- - - Updated - - -


if memory serves Haley was a Art II Hire or so the rumor mill would have one to believe because of his Steeler ties

The Rooneys have made all of Tomlin’s coordinator hires/fires. IMO, it’s kind of odd that a HC doesn’t have control over his own coordinators.

[Craic]

:willy:

- - - Updated - - -



The Rooneys have made all of Tomlin’s coordinator hires/fires. IMO, it’s kind of odd that a HC doesn’t have control over his own coordinators.

I remember when Dan Rooney was getting up there in age. HTG warned us that the Steelers organization would take a downturn when Art Jr. took the helm. She mentioned having to deal with him when she worked in the legal realm and came away with very a pretty negative view. IIRC, she even said he was the type to take control (but don't quote me on the last, it's been a while).

[86WARD]

I think he had a good year in Detroit where the defense lead the league in INT, then a lackluster year. Still, the guy was on the Seahawks staff around the time of SBXL I think and that was a good secondary. Likewise in Arizona 3 years later when Tomlin and the Steelers beat the Cards in SBXLIII.

Austin is a good football coach, with a mindset for takeaways. Be a shame to lose him, but such is the NFL.

I don’t think there’s any doubt that he’s a good DB coach.

In Detroit, the Lions D was ranked 3, 23, 13 and 21 while he was a DC. Cincinnati was 30 in 2018 when he was the DC there.

[86WARD]

1 ) Tomlin track record for hiring them is pretty poor. Haley_Fichtner

2 ) We still don't know who the QB is fr 2021.

3 ) Tomlin himself could be gone next year, and the new head coach could bring in " His guy "

Consider all of the above and riddle me this. What What OC worth his weight is going to want to coach for Pittsburgh unless it's an only option?

So no reason to draft a QB this season. Otherwise you end up like the rest of the bottom dwellers in the league.

[Shoes]

So no reason to draft a QB this season. Otherwise you end up like the rest of the bottom dwellers in the league.

agreed I have my TE in waiting! Pat Freiermuth requested #85 for his Steeler Jersey and has ordered his shoes. :chuckle:

[pczach]

agreed I have my TE in waiting! Pat Freiermuth requested #85 for his Steeler Jersey and has ordered his shoes. :chuckle:


Could this be the year?

It has to happen for you sometime!:chuckle:

[86WARD]

agreed I have my TE in waiting! Pat Freiermuth requested #85 for his Steeler Jersey and has ordered his shoes. :chuckle:

I would like that. I’m a fan of his. Watched him at PSU and like his play a lot.

[teegre]

A name to keep in mind:
Darell Bevell

He coached with Tomlin fifteen years ago. He is currently interviewing for HC jobs, but if he does not get one, he might be what we are looking for... because... he is a run-heavy type of OC. It is the type of OC that the Steelers replaced Arians with, and I could see the same again.

Pass-happy OC
Run-first OC
Pass-happy OC
Run-first OC

[Mojouw]

A name to keep in mind:
Darell Bevell

He coached with Tomlin fifteen years ago. He is currently interviewing for HC jobs, but if he does not get one, he might be what we are looking for... because... he is a run-heavy type of OC. It is the type of OC that the Steelers replaced Arians with, and I could see the same again.

Pass-happy OC
Run-first OC
Pass-happy OC
Run-first OC

I get your logic and I totally see it happening. But...please, kind and merciful God, can we not have an uninspiring retread as a coaching hire?

You know why Tomlin's assistants never get hired for anything else? Because he surrounds himself with old and solid "football guys" but no one up and coming that is trying to make things happen.

Go find the next coordinator that everyone will want to hire in 2 seasons for their HC opening. Who cares if it screws around with "stability"?

[hawaiiansteeler]

agreed I have my TE in waiting! Pat Freiermuth requested #85 for his Steeler Jersey and has ordered his shoes. :chuckle:

I know Freiermuth had to have season ending shoulder surgery, anyone know what round he's now expected to go in?

[Shoes]

I know Freiermuth had to have season ending shoulder surgery, anyone know what round he's now expected to go in?

He chose to do the surgery in the fall so he would be ready for TC. Late R1 to early R2

[Shoes]

I get your logic and I totally see it happening. But...please, kind and merciful God, can we not have an uninspiring retread as a coaching hire?

You know why Tomlin's assistants never get hired for anything else? Because he surrounds himself with old and solid "football guys" but no one up and coming that is trying to make things happen.

Go find the next coordinator that everyone will want to hire in 2 seasons for their HC opening. Who cares if it screws around with "stability"?

I agree. It would be a blast of fresh air and a huge motivation boost for the O to be able to get a coach that was innovative, very unpredictable and very smart. But is there a coach in the pro's or college that fits this?

[Mojouw]

I agree. It would be a blast of fresh air and a huge motivation boost for the O to be able to get a coach that was innovative, very unpredictable and very smart. But is there a coach in the pro's or college that fits this?

No Idea. But all these "hotshot" coaches have to come from somewhere. I realize that Arthur Smith (Titans OC and now HC of Falcons) isn't available. But at some college or pro team right now, there is the next Smith just waiting to unleash a play action passing game paired with a nice run game on NFL defenses.

I am not saying it has to be that kind of offensive system, but there is someone out there with ideas and things ready to go. Heck, he might be on the Steelers staff in Matt Canada.

[Shoes]

No Idea. But all these "hotshot" coaches have to come from somewhere. I realize that Arthur Smith (Titans OC and now HC of Falcons) isn't available. But at some college or pro team right now, there is the next Smith just waiting to unleash a play action passing game paired with a nice run game on NFL defenses.

I am not saying it has to be that kind of offensive system, but there is someone out there with ideas and things ready to go. Heck, he might be on the Steelers staff in Matt Canada.

I agree with you. I wonder if nfl teams scout coaches?

[Born2Steel]

No Idea. But all these "hotshot" coaches have to come from somewhere. I realize that Arthur Smith (Titans OC and now HC of Falcons) isn't available. But at some college or pro team right now, there is the next Smith just waiting to unleash a play action passing game paired with a nice run game on NFL defenses.

I am not saying it has to be that kind of offensive system, but there is someone out there with ideas and things ready to go. Heck, he might be on the Steelers staff in Matt Canada.

His name is Lane Kiffen and he's currently the HC at Ole Miss. I know the knee-jerk reaction is how he failed with the Raiders. But that FO forced drafting Jamarcus Russell on him and fired him after his 1st season. I don't think he would leave Ole Miss for an OC job right now though.

[Shoes]

His name is Lane Kiffen and he's currently the HC at Ole Miss. I know the knee-jerk reaction is how he failed with the Raiders. But that FO forced drafting Jamarcus Russell on him and fired him after his 1st season. I don't think he would leave Ole Miss for an OC job right now though.


Now there is a gem from the past! :chuckle:

[DesertSteel]

His name is Lane Kiffen and he's currently the HC at Ole Miss. I know the knee-jerk reaction is how he failed with the Raiders. But that FO forced drafting Jamarcus Russell on him and fired him after his 1st season. I don't think he would leave Ole Miss for an OC job right now though.
You never know with Lane... he wears out his welcome pretty fast and he doesn't stay anywhere long.

[Born2Steel]

You never know with Lane... he wears out his welcome pretty fast and he doesn't stay anywhere long.

QFT

[teegre]

I get your logic and I totally see it happening. But...please, kind and merciful God, can we not have an uninspiring retread as a coaching hire?

You know why Tomlin's assistants never get hired for anything else? Because he surrounds himself with old and solid "football guys" but no one up and coming that is trying to make things happen.

Go find the next coordinator that everyone will want to hire in 2 seasons for their HC opening. Who cares if it screws around with "stability"?

It is completely the way that the Rooneys hire coordinators (although, they do the exact OPPOSITE when hiring head coaches).

- - - Updated - - -


I agree with you. I wonder if nfl teams scout coaches?

Oh, one hundred percent they do. :nod:

[teegre]

Here’s a name:

Eric Bieniemy

For whatever reason, he’s not getting hired as a HC. The most-recent excuse is that he has Mahomes and/or Reid is coordinating a lot of the playcalls. Ergo, he needs to go somewhere else to prove himself. What better reclamation project than the Steelers rushing attack.

[pczach]

If he weren't just hired by Penn State, I would say that Mike Yurcich would be a frontrunner for the position. He was the OC of Mason Rudolph at Oklahoma St.

He runs a pass-first offense, but still believes in a power run game that can convert in short yardage situations.

Here's a breakdown of his coaching career. Some of the stats of offenses he has headed are mind-blowing.

Read this link: https://gopsusports.com/news/2021/1/8/football-franklin-announces-coaching-staff-change.aspx

It's just a thought, and the Rudolph connection is there if that is the direction they plan on going.

[Shoes]

I hope its not Tomlin's buddy, Caldwell. I'm about done with this buddy stuff!

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If he weren't just hired by Penn State, I would say that Mike Yurcich would be a frontrunner for the position. He was the OC of Mason Rudolph at Oklahoma St.

He runs a pass-first offense, but still believes in a power run game that can convert in short yardage situations.

Here's a breakdown of his coaching career. Some of the stats of offenses he has headed are mind-blowing.

Read this link: https://gopsusports.com/news/2021/1/8/football-franklin-announces-coaching-staff-change.aspx

It's just a thought, and the Rudolph connection is there if that is the direction they plan on going.

Make him an offer, you never know!

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Here’s a name:

Eric Bieniemy

For whatever reason, he’s not getting hired as a HC. The most-recent excuse is that he has Mahomes and/or Reid is coordinating a lot of the playcalls. Ergo, he needs to go somewhere else to prove himself. What better reclamation project than the Steelers rushing attack.

I've been thinking of him also.

[Born2Steel]

Bieniemy might be able to make a serviceable player out of Dobbs too.

[pczach]

Here’s a name:

Eric Bieniemy

For whatever reason, he’s not getting hired as a HC. The most-recent excuse is that he has Mahomes and/or Reid is coordinating a lot of the playcalls. Ergo, he needs to go somewhere else to prove himself. What better reclamation project than the Steelers rushing attack.


I still think somebody is going to make this guy a head coach. Unless he's just not good in the interview room.:noidea:

I'd be all for bringing Bieniemy in to run Reid's offense. Everybody looks good with great talent, but that system scheme's people open as well as any system out there.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I still think somebody is going to make this guy a head coach. Unless he's just not good in the interview room.:noidea:


Watson wants the Texans to hire Bieniemy as their HC.

[DesertSteel]

Here’s a name:

Eric Bieniemy

For whatever reason, he’s not getting hired as a HC. The most-recent excuse is that he has Mahomes and/or Reid is coordinating a lot of the playcalls. Ergo, he needs to go somewhere else to prove himself. What better reclamation project than the Steelers rushing attack.
He must be a terrible interview.

[Fire Goodell]

Ding Dong! Randy Fitch is gone. Which old Fitch? The Randy Fitch!
Ding Dong! Randy Fitch is gone.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Randy Fitch is gone. He's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
Randy Fitch is gone!

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ding Dong! Randy Fitch is gone. Which old Fitch? The Randy Fitch!
Ding Dong! Randy Fitch is gone.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Randy Fitch is gone. He's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
Randy Fitch is gone!

:rofl2:

[Steel Peon]

Ding Dong! Randy Fitch is gone. Which old Fitch? The Randy Fitch!
Ding Dong! Randy Fitch is gone.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Randy Fitch is gone. He's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
Randy Fitch is gone!
Awesome... And, you used the word "Dong" 3 times, so I laughed 3 extra laughs.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

He must be a terrible interview.

True, that interview reveals if you are somebody that can lead men or not. Lead a coaching staff, create a vision and culture, then implement it. People think you have to be a qualified x and o's guy to get a head coach job, but the reality is you have to manage the x and o's guys as a HC.

Lots of good coordinators, not cut out to lead a team and have shown that. Every year they get fired, despite being the hotshot coordinator 2 years prior. Then you get the Joe Judge or John Harbaugh guys that were special teams coaches, but they are able to lead a team. Tough for Eric Bienemy, maybe he is just a coordinator at best.