Fire Tomlin - 2021 Edition

[faninyork]

Here we go.....again.

[JayC]

hahah no losing seasons ever

[BlackAndGold]

Nothing will change.

[st33lersguy]

Every coach needs to get fired

[EzraTank]

He's not getting fired after going 13-3. As pissed off as we are no owner would fire someone under those circumstances.

[st33lersguy]

He's not getting fired after going 13-3. As pissed off as we are no owner would fire someone under those circumstances.

Unfortunately you are right. As long as Tomlin keeps meeting the 8 win benchmark, mike brown rooney will continue to pretend like everything is fine. However, these past 6 weeks show how utterly useless Tomlin is as head coach without an effective ben

[86WARD]

He's not getting fired after going 13-3. As pissed off as we are no owner would fire someone under those circumstances.

12-4...lol.

[Steeldude]

But..but...Tomlin never had a losing season. It must be the punter’s fault.

[EzraTank]

12-4...lol.

Yep, meant 12-4, same difference, no head coach is getting fired after going 12-4.

[BlackAndGold]

Dan Bylsma.

Penguins fans will understand what I'm talking about. Thank God the Pens made the change before it was too late.

[Mojouw]

.

[fansince'76]

Dan Bylsma.

Penguins fans will understand what I'm talking about. Thank God the Pens made the change before it was too late.

You mean like getting swept in the first round in 2019 and following it up by getting bounced in the qualifying round 3-1 last year? Whatever...

[BlackAndGold]

You mean like getting swept in the first round in 2019 and following it up by getting bounced in the qualifying round 3-1 last year? Whatever...

Back to back cups. That doesn't happen without Dan getting the boot.

Mike Sullivan changed the identity of the team. Also changed the game of the NHL. He's a reason why the game is played with so much speed now. Crosby and Malkin's career look different without Sullivan.


Tho to be fair, Dan was replaced with Mike Johnston first, which was bad, but he was fired quickly.

[fansince'76]

Back to back cups. That doesn't happen without Dan getting the boot.

Mike Sullivan changed the identity of the team. Also changed the game of the NHL. He's a reason why the game is played with so much speed now. Crosby and Malkin's career look different without Sullivan.


Tho to be fair, Dan was replaced with Mike Johnston first, which was bad, but he was fired quickly.

How are they doing NOW, though?

[vader29]

https://i.ibb.co/TR6yz28/mt2.jpg

[BlackAndGold]

How are they doing NOW, though?

Should be one of the better teams in the East and a playoff team. If Crosby and Malkin stay healthy, maybe they can get one more Cup but they are aging unfortunately.

[The Bark]

How are they doing NOW, though?

Sorry, but I'll take the back-to-back cups - something Bylsma will probably never achieve. Heck, I liked Dan when he took over, but he was a one trick pony and too arrogant to change his game plan (which sounds like another head coach.)

[Edman]

45 and 48 points given up in the last two playoff games.

Horribly outcoached by a team that didn't even have its head coach. I'd love to see the excuses for THIS one.

[that1guy]

45 and 48 points given up in the last two playoff games.

Horribly outcoached by a team that didn't even have its head coach. I'd love to see the excuses for THIS one.

Tomlin is truly clueless, the end of this season was flat out embarrassing, yet we will be forced to listen to the local talking heads pour on their admiration for Tomlin.

[fansince'76]

Sorry, but I'll take the back-to-back cups - something Bylsma will probably never achieve.

And pretty significant underachievement ever since. Kinda the same rap on Tomlin, no?

[Edman]

It's okay you guys. Ben wants to come back for another year and play until he's 45.

[st33lersguy]

Sorry, but I'll take the back-to-back cups - something Bylsma will probably never achieve. Heck, I liked Dan when he took over, but he was a one trick pony and too arrogant to change his game plan (which sounds like another head coach.)

Let's not forget Bylsma was hired by the Sabres and with less talent the Sabres became a last place team under his watch before quickly firing him

[BlackAndGold]

I still can't get over not going for it on 4th and one. It's the playoffs, momentum was shifting.

[Edman]

I still can't get over not going for it on 4th and one. It's the playoffs, momentum was shifting.

The team has no confidence to convert short yardage. They're totally finesse, and have been for years.

[Rotorhead]

That 4th and one was definitely a bad call, but remember, we don’t live in our fears or something like that

[j-d-s]

Yep, meant 12-4, same difference, no head coach is getting fired after going 12-4.
Marty Schottenheimer went 14-2 and got fired...

[pepsyman1]

Marty Schottenheimer went 14-2 and got fired...

^^THIS^^. And Marty was a far better coach. Mr Rooney needs to wake up.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Tomlin didnt sail passes high tonight, throw 4 INT and a couple more passes that should have been picked off.

The window closed 2 years ago to win a Super Bowl, so I dont know why anybody is surprised. Steelers winning 12 games was honestly the biggest surprise of the season and a pleasant surprise at that. Tomlin will be back and should be back, but a lot of whiney little babies that never lived thru 1983 as a Steeler fan will have to throw their fits around here, so just let the tears flow.

[fansince'76]

Marty Schottenheimer went 14-2 and got fired...

^^THIS^^. And Marty was a far better coach. Mr Rooney needs to wake up.

15 years ago. Since then, the San Diego/LA Chargers have been through 3 HCs (looking for a 4th now), have gone 116-108 in the regular season and have made a grand total of two postseason appearances in the last ELEVEN years to include zero AFC Championships and zero Super Bowls.

Careful what you wish for...you just might get it.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

15 years ago. Since then, the San Diego/LA Chargers have been through 3 HCs (looking for a 4th now), have gone 116-108 in the regular season and have made a grand total of two postseason appearances in the last ELEVEN years to include zero AFC Championships and zero Super Bowls.

Careful what you wish for...you just might get it. Marty deserve a lot of the blame! Had a HOF RB and HOF TE and plus a above average young QB at the time. His play calling and time management was beyond awful! Yes I watched then and know sh!t.

[Six Rings]

Nothing will change.

The standard is the standard.

For us that is watching Mikey go 3 for 7 in the playoffs in his last ten playoff games, losing most of the time to inferior teams. ENOUGH. If we can get guy like Urban Meyer, DO IT now. Otherwise get ready to get your teeth kicked in on free agency. Let's take all the comp picks we can get, let Tomlin coach out his final year ( Which will be a losing season ) and get a better head coach with a higher draft pick.

It's over. The window is closed.

Art Rooney II I'm talking to you. We'l see what type of owner you are.

- - - Updated - - -


15 years ago. Since then, the San Diego/LA Chargers have been through 3 HCs (looking for a 4th now), have gone 116-108 in the regular season and have made a grand total of two postseason appearances in the last ELEVEN years to include zero AFC Championships and zero Super Bowls.

Careful what you wish for...you just might get it.

If the cover 2 was in vogue, like it was 15 yers ago AND we had Bill Cowher's coaches ( Tomlin can't hire an OC for crap ) and players, sure things would be just fine. That was then, this is now. Our window is shut. Yes, I wish for it.

[fansince'76]

The standard is the standard.

For us that is watching Mikey go 3 for 7 in the playoffs in his last ten playoff games, losing most of the time to inferior teams. ENOUGH. If we can get guy like Urban Meyer, DO IT now. Otherwise get ready to get your teeth kicked in on free agency. Let's take all the comp picks we can get, let Tomlin coach out his final year ( Which will be a losing season ) and get a better head coach with a higher draft pick.

It's over. The window is closed.

Art Rooney II I'm talking to you. We'l see what type of owner you are.

- - - Updated - - -



If the cover 2 was in vogue, like it was 15 yers ago AND we had Bill Cowher's coaches ( Tomlin can't hire an OC for crap ) and players, sure things would be just fine. That was then, this is now. Our window is shut. Yes, I wish for it.

Fine. Just don't bitch if things get even worse. Urban Meyer? LOL - no flaw in that plan seeing how many "top flight" college HCs have absolutely flamed out in the NFL - especially ones who want to be the top paid HC in the league right out of the chute.

[lipps83]

The only issue I have with Tomlin is that it seems he is oblivious to how bad his coordinators can sometimes be.

Tomlin did not go 28-0 into the hole in the 1st quarter. Did not throw 4 picks. Didn't give up big runs to Chubb.

For those that want to drag on Tomlin are blind to the fact that this team went 11-0 before things went south quickly. Other teams figured out how to beat the Steelers. That is on the coordinators being ridiculously slow on how to make adjustments.

Ben's arm also apparently needs 2 quarters to warm up. Again, that isn't on Tomlin.

It is time to move on from Ben and I think that might be where they are going.

[Six Rings]

Fine. Just don't bitch if things get even worse. Urban Meyer? LOL - no flaw in that plan seeing how many "top flight" college HCs have absolutely flamed out in the NFL - especially ones who want to be the top paid HC in the league right out of the chute.

Oh I expect a very tough 2021 with negative cap space, an aging and expensive roster of players, and many of our players in their prime being unrestricted free agents.

You might want to check out Meyer's record, especially in the bowl games. The man is a winner. I think the guy has some issues, but coaching football is not one of them. Tomlin is just an average coach, who says colorful things and is loved in by the media.

Lot's of Pro coaches have " Flamed out too " The game has changed. At least Meyer knows what he's doing. Tomlin is a lousy X's and O's coach. His use of time out sucks, He can't hire an OC, and his teams fall flat too often in the playoffs. Ya want that?

We need a re-build, Tomlin could not win with talented rosters in the playoffs...for YEARS. Like I said I looked at his last 10 playoff games. He's 3 wins, and 7 losses. Enough already. I actually do not want a coaching change this year, unless we can bring in a coach of Meyer's qualifications. There is a reason he's asking for a lot. Otherwise let Tomlin coach out his last season, getting us a higher draft pick. That's right, I think A new coach would do marginally better ( 1-2 more wins ) in his rookie year partly because he's for change, and not sticking with the old, injured or slow. Hiring a better staff, and understand the fundamentals of when to call time outs are other reasons. PLUS veterans crap their pants with a new head coach, not dance or act like a look at me type on Social media. Tomlin does not control diva's well.

We'll see what Rooney does.

[86WARD]

The standard is the standard.

For us that is watching Mikey go 3 for 7 in the playoffs in his last ten playoff games, losing most of the time to inferior teams. ENOUGH. If we can get guy like Urban Meyer, DO IT now. Otherwise get ready to get your teeth kicked in on free agency. Let's take all the comp picks we can get, let Tomlin coach out his final year ( Which will be a losing season ) and get a better head coach with a higher draft pick.

It's over. The window is closed.

Art Rooney II I'm talking to you. We'l see what type of owner you are.

- - - Updated - - -



If the cover 2 was in vogue, like it was 15 yers ago AND we had Bill Cowher's coaches ( Tomlin can't hire an OC for crap ) and players, sure things would be just fine. That was then, this is now. Our window is shut. Yes, I wish for it.

Urban Meyer? LMAO. Stop.

[PaBrownsfan]

I don't see the front office firing m.tomlin. The Steelers just don't give up on head coaches liker that. This team has had only 3 head coaches in 50 years. Its just a horrorible ending to a season that was 11-0 at now sitting home watching others play on.

[steel striker]

Look they won't fire Tomlin and, no team can recover from a five turn game in the playoffs. It was very hard to watch being a life long steeler fan!

[Fire Goodell]

I'm not saying Tomlin needs to go, but time's up for Ben and Fitchner.

[Steel Peon]

Can we fire SOMEONE please?!

[Hawkman]

Can we fire SOMEONE please?!

I guess you can fire yourself from this board......just an idea.:wink02:

[cubanstogie]

Look they won't fire Tomlin and, no team can recover from a five turn game in the playoffs. It was very hard to watch being a life long steeler fan!
Plus he’s black. No way Rooneys fire a minority when they got the Rooney rule implemented. Unless they hire Eric Bienemy

[fansince'76]

Urban Meyer? LMAO. Stop.

Exactly. I was going to respond, but really, what's the point?

[BlackAndGold]

FWIW, Fichtner's contract has expired. I expect he'll be gone and Canada is the likely guy to replace him, though I hope they look outside but it's doubtful if Ben returns.

Other coaches. RB coach Eddie Faulker may get the axe. Took over for James Saxon in 2019 who was hired by the Cards.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Plus he’s black. No way Rooneys fire a minority when they got the Rooney rule implemented. Unless they hire Eric Bienemy

Him being black does not have anything to do with why the Rooney's will not fire Tomlin. I think it has to do with the fact that his all time winning percentage is better than Cowher, Noll, Bill Walsh or Joe Gibbs. Don Shula (67.7%) and Bill Belichek (67.2%) are only marginally better than Tomlin (65%).

You dont fire good coaches unless you are stupid. The Rooneys are not that.

[Six Rings]

He's not getting fired after going 13-3. As pissed off as we are no owner would fire someone under those circumstances.

Tomlin is 1-5 in his last 6 game, lead the team to another collapse, and is 3-7 in his last 10 playoff games.

FIRE HIM if he can be replaced with a Grade A coach NOW, or do it after next year ends and simply let his contract run out. This way Rooney can say I didn't fire him

[EzraTank]

Tomlin is 1-5 in his last 6 game, lead the team to another collapse, and is 3-7 in his last 10 playoff games.

FIRE HIM if he can be replaced with a Grade A coach NOW, or do it after next year ends and simply let his contract run out. This way Rooney can say I didn't fire him

Not going to happen, especially if Ben retires. The Rooney's will give him a shot with a new QB. Tomlin would be snatched up so fast by other teams it's ridiculous. He just went 12-4 in a weird season with COVID19. It's going to take a few straight 5-11 seasons to even get this considered.

[pczach]

Not going to happen, especially if Ben retires. The Rooney's will give him a shot with a new QB. Tomlin would be snatched up so fast by other teams it's ridiculous. He just went 12-4 in a weird season with COVID19. It's going to take a few straight 5-11 seasons to even get this considered.


He also did tthat while they play in the toughest division in the NFL.

[Steel Peon]

I guess you can fire yourself from this board......just an idea.:wink02:
If you wanna wield the ban-hammer, you might save me from contemplating why I started posting again.

[Six Rings]

Not going to happen, especially if Ben retires. The Rooney's will give him a shot with a new QB. Tomlin would be snatched up so fast by other teams it's ridiculous. He just went 12-4 in a weird season with COVID19. It's going to take a few straight 5-11 seasons to even get this considered.

I don't know what will happen. One man decides. Meanwhile Tony Dungy rips Tomlin, and Ron Cook says his hot seat is warming up. When Tony Dungy says it, people should listen. It's not about creed or race as Dungy is very much the same in these areas.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron-cook/2021/01/12/pittsburgh-steelers-mike-tomlin-ben-roethlisberger-cleveland-browns-ron-cook/stories/202101120045

[Lady Steel]

The buck stops here.

#FireTomlin

[pepsyman1]

The buck stops here.

#FireTomlin

Unfortunately, it will probably end with some lame quote like "we will unleash hell" before making no significant changes and finishing the year with his first losing record.

[DesertSteel]

The buck stops here.

#FireTomlin
So your stock on Ben is still up but your stock on Tomlin is down?

[pepsyman1]

So your stock on Ben is still up but your stock on Tomlin is down?

Ben isn't capable of carrying the team anymore as he has in the past. I think if you give him DECENT line play with a DECENT game plan he's still gonna put points on the board. The offense still performs best when Ben is calling plays no-huddle, which tells me he is still effective but the offensive scheme generally sucks. The OC is in over his head, the OL coach change has made no impact (they've never looked worse). We have a great RB who's tough and has a great attitude but on more than half of his carries he's getting contacted before he reaches the line of scrimmage. Ben didn't play well today but has played well for the last month and last week looked great. Unfortunately I think this is the way were gonna see Ben go out...struggling because he's trying to carry the team when surrounded by a weak line and and a horrendous coaching staff.

[Steeler-in-west]

Rooney’s just need to spend more on good coordinators, instead of searching in the bargain bin. Tired of getting out schemed by other teams and wondering why our coordinators don’t make adjustments in game. I’m fine with giving Tomlin a couple more years to right the ship - just spend more money on some good coordinators- offense, defense, DB’ coach, line coach….hired the best people you can find and break out of the buddy buddy system - our most effective OC has been Haley, who was not anyone’s buddy but he was miles better than Fichtner and so far Canada

[Lady Steel]

So your stock on Ben is still up but your stock on Tomlin is down?


Yes. I'd rather have Ben on my team than Tomlin as my coach. I'm sick and tired of this lackadaisical team. Sick and tired.

[DesertSteel]

Yes. I'd rather have Ben on my team than Tomlin as my coach. I'm sick and tired of this lackadaisical team. Sick and tired.
I'm sure that next year the opposite of your wish will come true. Tomlin will be coaching and Ben will be retired.

[cubanstogie]

Yes. I'd rather have Ben on my team than Tomlin as my coach. I'm sick and tired of this lackadaisical team. Sick and tired.
Get rid of both then. No QB could lead this team to SB, and no coach could either. They’re both part of the problem. Get Eric Bienemy in there . Id love to find a franchise QB in draft but don’t think one is in it. I’d take Garrapolo over Ben next year in a minute. whether you like it or not Ben is done.

[hawaiiansteeler]

If we can get guy like Urban Meyer, DO IT now.

https://i.imgur.com/X3w77b7.gif?noredirect

[steelreserve]

Rooney’s just need to spend more on good coordinators, instead of searching in the bargain bin. Tired of getting out schemed by other teams and wondering why our coordinators don’t make adjustments in game. I’m fine with giving Tomlin a couple more years to right the ship - just spend more money on some good coordinators- offense, defense, DB’ coach, line coach….hired the best people you can find and break out of the buddy buddy system - our most effective OC has been Haley, who was not anyone’s buddy but he was miles better than Fichtner and so far Canada

Tomlin's had 10 years to right the ship after the Super Bowl team finally got too old. I think we know what we have by now, and that is a coach who is adequate but nothing special. Some coaches are tactical geniuses who will out-scheme you, but he doesn't do that. Some are great teachers who get the most out of their players, but he isn't that either. Some are great motivators, and Tomlin talks a lot like one, but it doesn't actually do much. Some are great leaders and organizers, who find great staff and collaborate with them, but that doesn't sound like him either. As the saying goes, "A" people hire other "A" people. "B" people hire "C" and "C-minus" people. And that looks a lot like what we've got going on.

It's very frustrating that the last two-thirds of Ben's career went by without even seriously competing for a championship. Tomlin is near the top of all kinds of leaderboards because he had a running start, but the results over the next decade have been pretty ho-hum. The team's never been BAD, but it's never been that good either. Every team for the last 10 years has had some obvious problem, and it's always, "give him a chance, we're almost there, it'll be fixed soon, we'll get 'em next year," but then next year is not much different, except maybe the obvious problem has shifted somewhere else like a game of whack-a-mole.

Eventually, you can either keep stringing things along "just a couple more years" and holding out hope that things will be great once you finally get those couple problems out of the way, and then you look up and another frustrating decade has passed and you're still just drifting along, kind of like that one ex-girlfriend who was always vaguely dissatisfied about something, and you thought she'd be really great if she ever got over it, but eventually you figured out that's just who she was.

Well, that's who Tomlin is. The Andy Dalton or Tony Romo of head coaches. He's not bad, but he's not going to win you anything that matters. But you can't bring yourself to cut him loose, because there's so much history and you don't have anything better lined up - so just like your ex, you stick it out for another couple years, and another, until finally no one can stand each other anymore, so you flip out and start banging the secretary and spend your savings on a Ford Mustang. That's about where we are right now, or at least we should be.

[Steeler-in-west]

^ I pretty much agree, I thought at the very least overhaul the coaching staff but ultimately, yeah, this team needs a no nonsense detail oriented coach who will have the team prepped, who is on top of what his coordinators are doing and win when they’re supposed to (like Noll). I think the pitfalls of being a ‘buddy’ or players coach are obvious

[SteeleReign]

Tomlin's had 10 years to right the ship after the Super Bowl team finally got too old. I think we know what we have by now, and that is a coach who is adequate but nothing special. Some coaches are tactical geniuses who will out-scheme you, but he doesn't do that. Some are great teachers who get the most out of their players, but he isn't that either. Some are great motivators, and Tomlin talks a lot like one, but it doesn't actually do much. Some are great leaders and organizers, who find great staff and collaborate with them, but that doesn't sound like him either. As the saying goes, "A" people hire other "A" people. "B" people hire "C" and "C-minus" people. And that looks a lot like what we've got going on.

It's very frustrating that the last two-thirds of Ben's career went by without even seriously competing for a championship. Tomlin is near the top of all kinds of leaderboards because he had a running start, but the results over the next decade have been pretty ho-hum. The team's never been BAD, but it's never been that good either. Every team for the last 10 years has had some obvious problem, and it's always, "give him a chance, we're almost there, it'll be fixed soon, we'll get 'em next year," but then next year is not much different, except maybe the obvious problem has shifted somewhere else like a game of whack-a-mole.

Eventually, you can either keep stringing things along "just a couple more years" and holding out hope that things will be great once you finally get those couple problems out of the way, and then you look up and another frustrating decade has passed and you're still just drifting along, kind of like that one ex-girlfriend who was always vaguely dissatisfied about something, and you thought she'd be really great if she ever got over it, but eventually you figured out that's just who she was.

Well, that's who Tomlin is. The Andy Dalton or Tony Romo of head coaches. He's not bad, but he's not going to win you anything that matters. But you can't bring yourself to cut him loose, because there's so much history and you don't have anything better lined up - so just like your ex, you stick it out for another couple years, and another, until finally no one can stand each other anymore, so you flip out and start banging the secretary and spend your savings on a Ford Mustang. That's about where we are right now, or at least we should be.That may be the single best summation of the recent Tomlin era I've ever read. I think it's time to write the Dear John letter and move on.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[SteeleReign]

^ I pretty much agree, I thought at the very least overhaul the coaching staff but ultimately, yeah, this team needs a no nonsense detail oriented coach who will have the team prepped, who is on top of what his coordinators are doing and win when they’re supposed to (like Noll). I think the pitfalls of being a buddy or players coach are obviousThis team under Tomlin brings to mind a Chuck Noll quote:

"Champions are not champions because they do extraordinary things, but because they do the ordinary things better than anyone else."

Tomlin's teams have become lazy and undisciplined at doing the ordinary football things well.

We need to find coaches that demand perfection with the ordinary things.



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

Personally I think the Steelers should move on from Tomlin for two reasons- the past and the future.

Only 2 of the last 11 seasons resulting in a playoff win. (Special thank you to Pacman and Burfict having a historical meltdown so we could beat AJ McCarron's Bengals.) That is a mediocre past over the last decade.

The other part is the future. The Post-Ben era will need to find and develop the QB of the future. What qualifications does Tomlin have in that regard? None of the QBs the Steelers have drafted under Tomlin are even good backups.

At least Colbert was here when the Steelers drafted Ben. But even then he is 64. When does he want to retire? Could be a good time for a switch at GM also.

The most important job for the HC going forward is developing the QB and offense. The Steelers have been underwhelming with a HOF QB and a talented supporting cast.

Tomlin has already said he does not want to develop a rookie QB. So... how is Tomlin the right coach to develop a top QB and offense going forward with a major rebuild?

[fansince'76]

I'm sure that next year the opposite of your wish will come true. Tomlin will be coaching and Ben will be retired.

Yep.

Flashing back to early 1989 (after finishing 7-9 in 1985, 6-10 in 1986, 8-7 in 1987 and 5-11 in 1988)


The Pittsburgh Steelers today fired four assistant coaches after several weeks of hints of a staff shake-up, and defensive coordinator Tony Dungy resigned.

The Steelers said Chuck Noll will remain with the team for the rest of his career.

The firings are the most in Noll’s 20 years as head coach and the first since he dismissed secondary coach Dick Walker in 1981. The Steelers ended the season 5-11, posting their worst record since 1969, when Noll’s first Steelers team finished 1-13.

Speculation over a coaching shake-up escalated Dec. 26, when CBS-TV reported that Noll had threatened to resign over proposed changes in his staff. The network said Noll told his coaching staff that he was considering quitting because he could not follow Rooney’s orders to fire some of them.

Read more: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-01-03-sp-267-story.html

Like it or not, Tomlin isn't going anywhere for a while yet.

[that1guy]

Personally I think the Steelers should move on from Tomlin for two reasons- the past and the future.

Only 2 of the last 11 seasons resulting in a playoff win. (Special thank you to Pacman and Burfict having a historical meltdown so we could beat AJ McCarron's Bengals.) That is a mediocre past over the last decade.

The other part is the future. The Post-Ben era will need to find and develop the QB of the future. What qualifications does Tomlin have in that regard? None of the QBs the Steelers have drafted under Tomlin are even good backups.

At least Colbert was here when the Steelers drafted Ben. But even then he is 64. When does he want to retire? Could be a good time for a switch at GM also.

The most important job for the HC going forward is developing the QB and offense. The Steelers have been underwhelming with a HOF QB and a talented supporting cast.

Tomlin has already said he does not want to develop a rookie QB. So... how is Tomlin the right coach to develop a top QB and offense going forward with a major rebuild?

This. Tomlin said he doesn't want a rookie QB because he realizes that if he couldn't win playoff games with a future HOFer what chance will he have starting fresh? Tomlin talks but that's it they're empty words. Mike Tomlin is praised by talking heads for his never a losing season Stat and the negative is swept under the rug. Espn ect won't talk about his inability to win playoff games, Tomlin constantly being outcoached, the lack of football IQ his players have displayed for a decade or his clock management. All of these things have equated to 5 seasons (going on 6) without a playoff win.

[fansince'76]

Well, at least nobody has mentioned the old "maybe they can get Cowher to come back" theme yet. :rolleyes:

[Mojouw]

Well, at least nobody has mentioned the old "maybe they can get Cowher to come back" theme yet. :rolleyes:

Or brought up Urban Meyer. But we should start hearing about how great at least one of the Harbaugh’s are any minute now.

[Steel Peon]

Tomlin has already said he does not want to develop a rookie QB.

I have yet to see him develop any player, let alone a QB, and every "Raw talent" we've ever brought in under him has stayed raw. The only way a player does good in this system is if they're already good when drafted, and motivated to learn outside of our practices, which seem farcical to non-existent at this point. I honestly couldn't tell you what we practice the most because we don't look like we practice anything... Besides kicking, Boswell's a beast. Admittedly though, you could practice Devin Bush all day for 10 years and he'd still look dumb, no matter the HC.

[86WARD]

I have yet to see him develop any player, let alone a QB, and every "Raw talent" we've ever brought in under him has stayed raw. The only way a player does good in this system is if they're already good when drafted, and motivated to learn outside of our practices, which seem farcical to non-existent at this point. I honestly couldn't tell you what we practice the most because we don't look like we practice anything... Besides kicking, Boswell's a beast. Admittedly though, you could practice Devin Bush all day for 10 years and he'd still look dumb, no matter the HC.


I have yet to see him develop any player, let alone a QB, and every "Raw talent" we've ever brought in under him has stayed raw. The only way a player does good in this system is if they're already good when drafted, and motivated to learn outside of our practices, which seem farcical to non-existent at this point. I honestly couldn't tell you what we practice the most because we don't look like we practice anything... Besides kicking, Boswell's a beast. Admittedly though, you could practice Devin Bush all day for 10 years and he'd still look dumb, no matter the HC.

Do you have examples of other coaches developing players? Trying to gauge your definition of developing a player because a lot of players have come to this team and turned into Pro Bowlers...probably the most raw was Alejandro Villanueva went from raw to All-Pro. Diontae Johnson is developing nicely. Antonio Brown went from a 6th round pick to a #4 WR to a pretty nice player. TJ Watt is developing nicely but does he not count because he was a first round pick? Maybe Robert Spillane? Went from nothing to a rotational guy. I mean right there is a pretty large range of different players.

[Shoes]

Tomlin seemed to say (post game) that he was going to make changes on the O & D lines. I'd like to know who these players are that will be part of that change? :lol:

[86WARD]

Tomlin seemed to say (post game) that he was going to make changes on the O & D lines. I'd like to know who these players are that will be part of that change? :lol:

I heard in the game, yesterday, that Banner had checked in a few times as an eligible receiver…perhaps they are slowly bringing him back? Maybe Tuitt will return??

[teegre]

I’d like to see Tomlin choose his own coordinators. He was told LeBeau was staying on, and Butler was “promised” the reins afterwards. Tomlin wanted Raheem Morris, but that hire has been nixed at least twice.

A very similar thing has been going on with our OCs. I can get why… the team’s QB is always going to have a huge say in who is hired (and fired), but it seems like we’ve “settled” for a couple of meek coordinators who don’t want to rock the boat. Haley was an a$$hole, but at least he had the gumption to make some changes to the offense. What would be nice is to get an assertive OC who actually has some good knowledge of how to build an offense.

[Shoes]

I heard in the game, yesterday, that Banner had checked in a few times as an eligible receiver…perhaps they are slowly bringing him back? Maybe Tuitt will return??

Watt isn't fully recovered, as we witnessed yesterday, nor is banner, I believe he played 2 snaps. I forgot Tuitt was on the team :lol: but doubt he will be of much help this season. So I still don't know who these replacement players are.

[fansince'76]

I’d like to see Tomlin choose his own coordinators.

This.


He was told LeBeau was staying on, and Butler was “promised” the reins afterwards. Tomlin wanted Raheem Morris, but that hire has been nixed at least twice.

And we've continued to get the same LeBeau Lite "Tackle the catch!" garbage that the rest of the league caught on to about 20 years ago.


A very similar thing has been going on with our OCs. I can get why… the team’s QB is always going to have a huge say in who is hired (and fired), but it seems like we’ve “settled” for a couple of meek coordinators who don’t want to rock the boat. Haley was an a$$hole, but at least he had the gumption to make some changes to the offense.

Yet Haley is now an OC at the high school level.


What would be nice is to get an assertive OC who actually has some good knowledge of how to build an offense.

Agreed. Maybe when Roethlisberger hangs them up(?)

And how Danny Smith continues to hang on year after year is a mystery.

[Shoes]

I didn't know Tomlin had no choice in picking his own C? Fitch & Butler were his long ago buddies if I recall correctly. Who is choosing them? If it's Rooney we need a new owner! I mean at least Dan understood football. :lol:

[teegre]

I didn't know Tomlin had no choice in picking his own C? Fitch & Butler were his long ago buddies if I recall correctly. Who is choosing them? If it's Rooney we need a new owner! I mean at least Dan understood football. :lol:

Butler was the OLB coach under LeBeau. Some team tried to sign him as their DC, but we interjected and “promised” him the DC spot here if he stated. :frusty:

Fitchner was Ben’s QB coach under Arians… much like how Canada was the QB coach under Fitchner. In other words: cloning. :lol:

[Shoes]

Butler was the OLB coach under LeBeau. Some team tried to sign him as their DC, but we interjected and “promised” him the DC spot here if he stated. :frusty:

Fitchner was Ben’s QB coach under Arians… much like how Canada was the QB coach under Fitchner. In other words: cloning. :lol:

Yes, I know they promised butler LeBeau's job and I understand the Ben fitch union, but there is also this.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PnMxCeE5_o

[tube517]

Tomlin seemed to say (post game) that he was going to make changes on the O & D lines. I'd like to know who these players are that will be part of that change? :lol:

Who? The preseason game 4 starters? :chuckle:

I mean the OL is already depleted and they need to start new players due to injury. DL rotates alot. There's nobody really "new" unless the Davis brothers can get a hat or Stephon Tuitt miraculously shows up which I doubt will happen this season.

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

I’d like to see Tomlin choose his own coordinators. He was told LeBeau was staying on, and Butler was “promised” the reins afterwards. Tomlin wanted Raheem Morris, but that hire has been nixed at least twice.

A very similar thing has been going on with our OCs. I can get why… the team’s QB is always going to have a huge say in who is hired (and fired), but it seems like we’ve “settled” for a couple of meek coordinators who don’t want to rock the boat. Haley was an a$$hole, but at least he had the gumption to make some changes to the offense. What would be nice is to get an assertive OC who actually has some good knowledge of how to build an offense.

Raheem Morris took over the 1st defense in the NFL and has it 21st... that doesn't look good on Morris or Tomlin. That defense has three HOF on it currently.

OC don't typically have a big impact on offenses from what I've seen. When Josh McDaniel was OC to Tom Brady he was the best in the NFL, and when he was the OC in STL he was the worst. How does an OC go from 32nd in points in one year to 1st the next with a change in QB? How important is an OC really?

With the Steelers the OC have all had similar success in terms of points scored from run heavy Whisenhunt to shotgun formation since Haley. The OC never scored more than 27 ppg. Roethlisberger has finished top 5 in points scored once in his career over 5 different OC and 16 seasons. Typically the Steelers score 21-24 ppg any given season, exceeding that only a handful of times with Haley and Fichtner who are typically hated by us as fans.

The next OC needs to develop Ben's replacement, assuming it is a rookie. Whoever is the best at that.

Also, Fichtner was Tomlin's guy. They are friends since coaching together at Arkansas St. in 1997 and 1998. I think Tomlin made a good call personally (scoring the 2nd and 4th most points of Ben's career- getting fired for scoring 26 ppg with less talent than usual).

I'm not saying Tomlin isn't capable of selecting an OC just that the QB drives the offense.

[tube517]

I’d like to see Tomlin choose his own coordinators. He was told LeBeau was staying on, and Butler was “promised” the reins afterwards. Tomlin wanted Raheem Morris, but that hire has been nixed at least twice.

A very similar thing has been going on with our OCs. I can get why… the team’s QB is always going to have a huge say in who is hired (and fired), but it seems like we’ve “settled” for a couple of meek coordinators who don’t want to rock the boat. Haley was an a$$hole, but at least he had the gumption to make some changes to the offense. What would be nice is to get an assertive OC who actually has some good knowledge of how to build an offense.

The offensive position coaches were really good at one point. Under Haley - Munchak, Mann, Saxon. All are now gone. Mann's replacement, Darryl Drake passed away. After Munch left, the o-line fell apart over 2 years. The WRs regressed. The RB depth is weak.

[Steeler-in-west]

Don’t care if Haley is coaching at the HS level - he was still better than his successors - which shows just how dysfunctional our selection process is for hiring coaches. The team is regularly just not prepared, it’s becoming more of a recurrence, and we’re not the only team with injuries, in fact our IR numbers are right around league average

[Dwinsgames]

if you have not watched the video shoes shared a few posts above .... WATCH IT

[Rotorhead]

Remember when Arians was the OC, and our OL was trash, and Ben was getting Hulk smashed almost every down because the WR routes took 5s to develop, but we were ok because Ben could shake off the first 3 hits before throwing it? Well, we are back to there now, only Ben isn’t young anymore. I have seen the exact same offensive gameplan rolled out every game this season. We can’t run up the middle, but that is all we do, we can’t throw even mid range passes because Ben is under pressure almost immediately after the snap against good DL’s (against poor and avg our offense has been much better and we get the W’s or are at least competitive). Going empty backset without a TE to help with pass blocking is just stupid at this point. Yeah I understand it makes the WRs easier to cover, but at least Ben will have more than 3s to try to throw the ball, and he will have 2 options for outlet passes with NH and PF. Why do our screen plays only have 2 blockers when almost every other team has 4? I may have missed something, but we have ZERO pick plays to get our guys open. Ben can call the plays all day long, but the designs he is calling are flawed. Until that changes or we get the best OL in football, we can expect more of the same. It is like Canada is calling college plays on a top team playing against a Div II defense where he thinks his WRs are just going to be open all day.

[86WARD]

I’ve noticed it as well. The play designs aren’t feasible against NFL defenses. Using your screen example, the first time you think maybe it’s busted. Second time you think maybe the defense made a play. Third time and beyond…WTF.

The Steelers WRs do not get open like other teams do. They aren’t schemed open like the Rams or Packers guys. All you need do is watch any other NFL game and you see guys open…really open. Not just “thread the needle” open. Steelers receivers are very rarely open like that. Almost like they run into the coverage opposed to sitting down in a zone or running a pick/rub.

[Shoes]

Moats on possible changes

starts @1:15


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9biKdncoOMA

[Mojouw]

Teams only defend horizontal against Steelers. No need to deal with a vertical element.

The Seahawks are struggling because they’re the opposite with only a vertical component.

If you can’t pull the shape of the defense apart from both of those directions, you can’t create the space, angles, and breakdowns that cause acres of space.

[86WARD]

When the Steelers go vertical, those guys are covered like blankets. If these receivers are as good as they say, they should be finding ways open yet they are never open and this goes back years…the plays are very basic and easy to defend and they have been since Haley left.

[Mojouw]

When the Steelers go vertical, those guys are covered like blankets. If these receivers are as good as they say, they should be finding ways open yet they are never open and this goes back years…the plays are very basic and easy to defend and they have been since Haley left.

Juju and Claypool have been wide open and missed or under thrown multiple times.

Latest was in the Detroit game. Claypool could’ve wandered into the end zone but Ben couldn’t heave it far enough.

The WRs could be better but 6 yards a pop pass attempts tells you the source and root of the problem.

I seem to remember AB and Bryant being stupid open many times.

[pepsyman1]

Raheem Morris took over the 1st defense in the NFL and has it 21st... that doesn't look good on Morris or Tomlin. That defense has three HOF on it currently.

OC don't typically have a big impact on offenses from what I've seen. When Josh McDaniel was OC to Tom Brady he was the best in the NFL, and when he was the OC in STL he was the worst. How does an OC go from 32nd in points in one year to 1st the next with a change in QB? How important is an OC really?

With the Steelers the OC have all had similar success in terms of points scored from run heavy Whisenhunt to shotgun formation since Haley. The OC never scored more than 27 ppg. Roethlisberger has finished top 5 in points scored once in his career over 5 different OC and 16 seasons. Typically the Steelers score 21-24 ppg any given season, exceeding that only a handful of times with Haley and Fichtner who are typically hated by us as fans.

The next OC needs to develop Ben's replacement, assuming it is a rookie. Whoever is the best at that.

Also, Fichtner was Tomlin's guy. They are friends since coaching together at Arkansas St. in 1997 and 1998. I think Tomlin made a good call personally (scoring the 2nd and 4th most points of Ben's career- getting fired for scoring 26 ppg with less talent than usual).

I'm not saying Tomlin isn't capable of selecting an OC just that the QB drives the offense.

I think Haley took a lot of grief without much credit. Wisenhunt was the OC for 3 years with Cowher the the team averaged just over 23 pts a game for those 3 years. Arians was OC for 5 and averaged a little less than 23. Halley averaged just under 25 points a game for 6 years and got Ben to get rid of the ball quicker which kept him alive and took a lot of pressure off the O line. Ben might not have liked him as much as Bruce or Fichner but Ben's was successful with him. I don't think Fichner made any significant changes when he took over, at that point he was comfortable with what developed under Haley.

[teegre]

Yes, I know they promised butler LeBeau's job and I understand the Ben fitch union, but there is also this.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PnMxCeE5_o

Whoa!!! Very interesting :nod:

That said, it’s it a coincidence (akin to how Schobert and Watt both played on the same Wisconsin team and now both play for the Steelers) or is it a legitimate causation???

[pepsyman1]

Juju and Claypool have been wide open and missed or under thrown multiple times.

Latest was in the Detroit game. Claypool could’ve wandered into the end zone but Ben couldn’t heave it far enough.

The WRs could be better but 6 yards a pop pass attempts tells you the source and root of the problem.

I seem to remember AB and Bryant being stupid open many times.

Mason's yards per attempt were even lower than Ben's on his start. Most of that is the scheme. (not that Mason has a big arm anyway). Ben's arm isn't what it used to be, but he has no problem with all the normal throws during no huddle situations, even if his deep ball has declined.

[Mojouw]

Mason's yards per attempt were even lower than Ben's on his start. Most of that is the scheme. (not that Mason has a big arm anyway). Ben's arm isn't what it used to be, but he has no problem with all the normal throws during no huddle situations, even if his deep ball has declined.

For some reason Steelers fans are the only NFL watchers who see a viable QB when Ben plays.

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqIK6Ipl6KI

[pepsyman1]

For some reason Steelers fans are the only NFL watchers who see a viable QB when Ben plays.

I think Ben is viable if he's got an O-line and some reasonable play calls. We haven't done anything to make it easier on him. (line sucks, Canada is clueless). I don't think he can carry the team like he used too and I expect this year is his last. the reality is that he's still the best QB on the roster

[Mojouw]

I think Ben is viable if he's got an O-line and some reasonable play calls. We haven't done anything to make it easier on him. (line sucks, Canada is clueless). I don't think he can carry the team like he used too and I expect this year is his last. the reality is that he's still the best QB on the roster

I guess that’s where we part ways. I think Ben’s washed and can’t make NFL level throws beyond about 10-15 yards. And within that range, he’s not great either.

[Steel Peon]

Do you have examples of other coaches developing players?
Well now you're asking a lot out of me, and this isn't research I'm going to put any time into I'm afraid... The raw talent I speak of though, who were referred to as raw talents when we drafted them, are players like Artie Burns, Cortez Allen, Shamarko Thomas, Chris Rainey, and currently Devin Bush, who may not have been considered raw talent but he sure looks like it now, with the talent part dropping off by the week. What I'm not seeing is development by coaching staff, rather it's talented players driving themselves to the next level due to high self-motivation, but that's just what I'm seeing, I could be wrong.

[Edman]

The Steelers are in this spot because they kicked the can down the road when after 2019 it was apparent changes had to be made. The 2020 season in hindsight was the single worst possible thing to happen. It was a fool's gold season that convinced the organization that nothing had to be done. Just go into 2021 with a declining Ben and hope for the best. Well, the best is scraping out a likely 6-10-1 campaign. Outside of Najee, Freiermuth and T.J Watt, the cupboard on this team is very bare and it isn't getting easier. The 2003 Steelers, last losing team and despite finishing 6-10, still had a lot of talented players.

[Mojouw]

The Steelers are in this spot because they kicked the can down the road when after 2019 it was apparent changes had to be made. The 2020 season in hindsight was the single worst possible thing to happen. It was a fool's gold season that convinced the organization that nothing had to be done. Just go into 2021 with a declining Ben and hope for the best. Well, the best is scraping out a likely 6-10-1 campaign. Outside of Najee, Freiermuth and T.J Watt, the cupboard on this team is very bare and it isn't getting easier. The 2003 Steelers, last losing team and despite finishing 6-10, still had a lot of talented players.

I see a bit more reason for optimism. They made the decision to turn over the OL. ITS bad now but I think it starts paying out next year. They’ve got other offense pieces.

I think the biggest problem on defense is lack of talent at CB and the total regression of Bush. With schoberrt, Bush has to be the thumper. And he’s not filling that role at all. Maybe they just need a BJ?

[hawaiiansteeler]

Maybe they just need a BJ?

that usually solves all my problems.

[Mojouw]

that usually solves all my problems.

It was also the cause of lots of younger me problems!

[DesertSteel]

Tomlin to Notre Dame!!!

[Rotorhead]

I see a bit more reason for optimism. They made the decision to turn over the OL. ITS bad now but I think it starts paying out next year. They’ve got other offense pieces.

I think the biggest problem on defense is lack of talent at CB and the total regression of Bush. With schoberrt, Bush has to be the thumper. And he’s not filling that role at all. Maybe they just need a BJ?

And honestly we came into this season expecting to have Alualu and Tuitt and the old Bush that was an up and coming ILB. I thought letting Hilton go was a mistake, but it is done. We also expected to have DeCastro and less injuries along the OL and that worked out poorly as well. Fix half of those issues (DL and OL) and we are probably leading the AFC right now with the way it is going this year. I don’t think we are that far off honestly. OL help (draft a starting T and FA a C/G), draft or FA an ILB and FA a CB fixes most of our issues and we will have the $$. The only issue may be the DL, I am hopeful we can get Alualu back, even after he resigned with us for less $$, and it would be even better if we get Tuitt back so we can have a solid rotation again. If all the above happens we are back in the thick of the AFCN. Probably have to get our next franchise QB after the next draft unless we get lucky in the FA game.

[Fire Goodell]

I don't know why we signed Tuitt to a long contract, that guy is mr. glass. dude's almost guaranteed to be unavailable for a playoff push since he's always on IR by midseason

[steelreserve]

I don't know why we signed Tuitt to a long contract, that guy is mr. glass. dude's almost guaranteed to be unavailable for a playoff push since he's always on IR by midseason

Before we gave him the big extension, the injuries were mostly little stuff and he was a badass when not injured.

But a torn pectoral muscle on a defensive lineman usually means the end of their career is not too far away. They play a couple seasons and tear it again, or get a torn tricep, and that's it. A torn pectoral followed by a knee injury gives me even less hope for the future. I always thought it was a worry with his size and his aggressive style of play; all his moving parts must take an incredible beating.

[Shoes]

Whoa!!! Very interesting :nod:

That said, it’s it a coincidence (akin to how Schobert and Watt both played on the same Wisconsin team and now both play for the Steelers) or is it a legitimate causation???

I don't know. What I do know is this, if Art Rooney (alone) is deciding what coaches we hire (other than a HC) we are in trouble. His dad had the football mojo Art is lawyer. At the same time I'm not so sure Tomlin has the greatest eye in choosing coaches either. And maybe that is where we are in the mix. A day late and a dollar short, except this has been going on for years.

[teegre]

I don't know. What I do know is this, if Art Rooney (alone) is deciding what coaches we hire (other than a HC) we are in trouble. His dad had the football mojo Art is lawyer. At the same time I'm not so sure Tomlin has the greatest eye in choosing coaches either. And maybe that is where we are in the mix. A day late and a dollar short, except this has been going on for years.

For as long as Tomlin has been here, I’ve heard repeatedly that he has little-to-no say in choosing his coordinators. A certain poster used to refer to Art II as “The Meddling Lawyer.” Maybe that poster was correct. :scared:

[Dwinsgames]

I don't know why we signed Tuitt to a long contract, that guy is mr. glass. dude's almost guaranteed to be unavailable for a playoff push since he's always on IR by midseason

wait whaaat ?

Tuitt has played in 14 games or more every year of his career ( minus 2019 and 2021 ) and he has started 8 playoff games in his 8 years ( including this one ) in the league

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TuitSt00.htm

[teegre]

I know that people always like to mention how the 2010 Packers won despite having a truckload of players on IR. But, that list of players was a bunch of backups… a LOT of backups, but backups nonetheless. Conversely, just a few years earlier, the Taperiots were pretty healthy… except they lost their starting QB. In other words, not all injuries are created equal.

Case in point: TJ Watt

The stats show that when he plays, the Steelers win. Period. He’s been out for most of our losses (and did not look 100% in the last game). I’d take an injury to three other players over one injury to Watt.

Additionally, the timing of some injuries is key. Tuitt is/was a “top five” DT/DE in the league. Then… he hasn’t played. The Steelers didn’t address that position in the draft, because they simply didn’t know he was going to sit out this long. Heck, if they had known, they would have tried to sign a free agent… or, better yet, if their foresight was all powerful, they simply would have resigned Hargrave (who they let leave because they had Tuitt, Heyward, & Alualu).

Along those same lines, DeCastro suddenly needed surgery. Was he hiding it? We’re the Steelers too optimistic that he was healthier than he seemed? Who knows. But, the timing left the Steelers scrambling for a RG… with not much value left in free agency. Plus, it used up much-needed cap space (which could have been used to sign a CB or DT).

SUMMATION:
I agree with Rotorhead.

[86WARD]

Well now you're asking a lot out of me, and this isn't research I'm going to put any time into I'm afraid... The raw talent I speak of though, who were referred to as raw talents when we drafted them, are players like Artie Burns, Cortez Allen, Shamarko Thomas, Chris Rainey, and currently Devin Bush, who may not have been considered raw talent but he sure looks like it now, with the talent part dropping off by the week. What I'm not seeing is development by coaching staff, rather it's talented players driving themselves to the next level due to high self-motivation, but that's just what I'm seeing, I could be wrong.

But you could go through the greatest of head coaches and cherry pick first round players out that they didn’t “develop”. Belichick has a laundry list of first and second round players that have never developed. Any of them with a WR designation to start. Dominique Easley never developed. Laurence Maroney was a waste.

[86WARD]

Tomlin to Notre Dame!!!

Never say never. But Never.

[Dwinsgames]

For as long as Tomlin has been here, I’ve heard repeatedly that he has little-to-no say in choosing his coordinators. A certain poster used to refer to Art II as “The Meddling Lawyer.” Maybe that poster was correct. :scared:

as far as the Steelers brass and Tomlin selecting his own Coordinators the blame shouldn't go to current owner Art the 2nd unless we are also willing to place equal Blame on the "I can do not wrong" Dan Rooney as he was the one who Hired Tomlin and his coordinators prior to Art 2 , so Art 2 isn't doing anything his Dad before him didn't already set precedence with ...

That said I find it amusing that people bash 2 as if he has no football acumen when the reality of it is he like his father before him grew up with the game in his own living room . is he an x's and o's guy ? who knows none of us have sat down with him to know ... does he understand personnel ? again who knows but I have a hunch he does he is a smart guy as dummies don't get threw law school , he is also a perceptive guy ....

what is his biggest downfall ? who knows but his dry personality puts people off and then come the rumors that are all unsubstantiated and spewed across message boards as if they are fact ....

all that said this is NOT a hit on Teegre as he is just paraphrasing another posters spiel that was purely opinion based on pretty much nothing evidentiary

[teegre]

as far as the Steelers brass and Tomlin selecting his own Coordinators the blame shouldn't go to current owner Art the 2nd unless we are also willing to place equal Blame on the "I can do not wrong" Dan Rooney as he was the one who Hired Tomlin and his coordinators prior to Art 2 , so Art 2 isn't doing anything his Dad before him didn't already set precedence with ...

That said I find it amusing that people bash 2 as if he has no football acumen when the reality of it is he like his father before him grew up with the game in his own living room . is he an x's and o's guy ? who knows none of us have sat down with him to know ... does he understand personnel ? again who knows but I have a hunch he does he is a smart guy as dummies don't get threw law school , he is also a perceptive guy ....

what is his biggest downfall ? who knows but his dry personality puts people off and then come the rumors that are all unsubstantiated and spewed across message boards as if they are fact ....

all that said this is NOT a hit on Teegre as he is just paraphrasing another posters spiel that was purely opinion based on pretty much nothing evidentiary

Excellent points :nod:

I will counter by quoting what Bill Parcells told the Taperiots owner: “If you’re going to have me cook the dinner, at least let me buy the groceries.”

[Crow-Magnon]

Guys, take this (along with a Xanax) for what it’s worth.

Your “problem” is success. That’s right. Success. You are so used to it that having a down year (and not even a losing year) is anethema. The fact is, there are franchises that would love to have had 1/3 of the winning seasons that Pittsburgh has had the past 20 years. I know it. You know it.

Yeah, I know it’s frustrating. Ben’s long in the tooth. The OL is not great in protection. The Steelers have some issues to correct and some holes to fill. But other than some real homers drinking the black-and-gold Kool-Aid, I don’t think many truly envisioned at 13-4 season in 2021. 5-5-1 is a down season (a bad season) for most of you as it’s been a long ass time since the Steelers were in the red at season’s end. But it’s not that bad and they are still in contention.

As far as Tomlin, if he left Pittsburgh at 4:00 PM on the last day of the 2021 season, he’d be somewhere else by 4:15. Bank on that.

[Mojouw]

Guys, take this (along with a Xanax) for what it’s worth.

Your “problem” is success. That’s right. Success. You are so used to it that having a down year (and not even a losing year) is anethema. The fact is, there are franchises that would love to have had 1/3 of the winning seasons that Pittsburgh has had the past 20 years. I know it. You know it.

Yeah, I know it’s frustrating. Ben’s long in the tooth. The OL is not great in protection. The Steelers have some issues to correct and some holes to fill. But other than some real homers drinking the black-and-gold Kool-Aid, I don’t think many truly envisioned at 13-4 season in 2021. 5-5-1 is a down season (a bad season) for most of you as it’s been a long ass time since the Steelers were in the red at season’s end. But it’s not that bad and they are still in contention.

As far as Tomlin, if he left Pittsburgh at 4:00 PM on the last day of the 2021 season, he’d be somewhere else by 4:15. Bank on that.

All too true!

IMHO, you nailed it with the Tomlin comment. I think there are teams in the league that would fire their current HC to hire Tomlin.

[Crow-Magnon]

All too true!

IMHO, you nailed it with the Tomlin comment. I think there are teams in the league that would fire their current HC to hire Tomlin.

Ya think? I guarantee it. I’m sure Shytown would jettison Nagy in a nanosecond if they had a shot at Tomlin.

[Edman]

Guys, take this (along with a Xanax) for what it’s worth.

Your “problem” is success. That’s right. Success. You are so used to it that having a down year (and not even a losing year) is anethema. The fact is, there are franchises that would love to have had 1/3 of the winning seasons that Pittsburgh has had the past 20 years. I know it. You know it.

Yeah, I know it’s frustrating. Ben’s long in the tooth. The OL is not great in protection. The Steelers have some issues to correct and some holes to fill. But other than some real homers drinking the black-and-gold Kool-Aid, I don’t think many truly envisioned at 13-4 season in 2021. 5-5-1 is a down season (a bad season) for most of you as it’s been a long ass time since the Steelers were in the red at season’s end. But it’s not that bad and they are still in contention.

As far as Tomlin, if he left Pittsburgh at 4:00 PM on the last day of the 2021 season, he’d be somewhere else by 4:15. Bank on that.

It's the 3-7 postseason record since 2011, same issues on the team year after year, the country club arrogance, talented players leaving on ugly terms, the underachievement, the team coming out flat and ill-prepared to play, the locker room drama, the constant mediocrity. Fans have been calling for Tomlin's head for years even before this season. 2021 is just a cherry on top of the mediocre sundae for problems that have been accumulating in this team for years now. You are correct, to bad teams and organizations, mediocrity is an upgrade. Mike will be hired big by a team like the Lions and Redskins. But for teams that actually want to win and accomplish things, Mike Tomlin doesn't measure up.

The only thing we can see from Mike is that we have yet to prove how he can lead this team without the crutch of Ben Roethlisberger, but that is the only thing going for him right now and why he was extended by the Steelers.

[Mojouw]

https://www.footballdb.com/coaches/index.html?type=post&sort=pct

Kinda looks like it is super hard to win consistently in the NFL playoffs. Basically no one has done it - except Brady and Bill B. It is an artificial standard and set of expectations that most hold Tomlin short of.

Honestly, I think that is the biggest reason everyone wants Tomlin fired. They want to have the success and media praise that the Pats have experienced but with the haughty superiority that it was done the "Steelers Way" without all the cheating and shadiness.

Kinda ignores the fact that maybe the cheating and the shadiness is the ONLY way to have such an unprecedented run of success.

[steelreserve]

https://www.footballdb.com/coaches/index.html?type=post&sort=pct

Kinda looks like it is super hard to win consistently in the NFL playoffs. Basically no one has done it - except Brady and Bill B. It is an artificial standard and set of expectations that most hold Tomlin short of.

Honestly, I think that is the biggest reason everyone wants Tomlin fired. They want to have the success and media praise that the Pats have experienced but with the haughty superiority that it was done the "Steelers Way" without all the cheating and shadiness.

Kinda ignores the fact that maybe the cheating and the shadiness is the ONLY way to have such an unprecedented run of success.

Here is the math of it: There are 11 playoff games per year including the Super Bowl. With 32 teams in the league, on average you ought to win about 3.5 playoff games per decade just by showing up. So in that respect, we have been slightly below average.

Sure, that's not a terrible performance on the face of it, but is that what you expect out of someone who is supposed to be one of the best coaches in the league, one that other teams would kill to hire?

Add in the fact that for the majority of that decade, we had a Hall of Fame QB in his prime and most teams didn't, and it really starts to piss you off that we didn't get better results. The fact that it's hard to win consistently in the NFL is no excuse to settle for mediocrity and go oh well.

[86WARD]

https://www.footballdb.com/coaches/index.html?type=post&sort=pct

Kinda looks like it is super hard to win consistently in the NFL playoffs. Basically no one has done it - except Brady and Bill B. It is an artificial standard and set of expectations that most hold Tomlin short of.

Honestly, I think that is the biggest reason everyone wants Tomlin fired. They want to have the success and media praise that the Pats have experienced but with the haughty superiority that it was done the "Steelers Way" without all the cheating and shadiness.

Kinda ignores the fact that maybe the cheating and the shadiness is the ONLY way to have such an unprecedented run of success.

That’s exactly the thing…other than Belichick/Brady, can you really name a head coach that is way above Tomlin? The names are always Reid, Payton, Carroll, even McCarthy was thrown out there at times…

[tube517]

1465498783194750978

[steelreserve]

That’s exactly the thing…other than Belichick/Brady, can you really name a head coach that is way above Tomlin? The names are always Reid, Payton, Carroll, even McCarthy was thrown out there at times…

This is such a lame argument that gets thrown around all the time. Of course if you limit your thinking to well-established names who have been around the NFL for years and are also available for hire immediately, you are going to come up with zip. But that is just by being deliberately obtuse for the sake of proving a point.

Who were Belichick, Carroll, Reid, and Payton before they were successful NFL coaches? Were they already NFL head coaches with a 10+ year track record of success? No? Then how did they ever do it? It's almost as if there are other people out there who might turn into good head coaches if you hire them. In fact, you might say that's how every single successful NFL coach is found.

This whole line of thinking is no different from saying, "How are we ever going to find our next QB in the draft? Who's coming out of college this year that's had a better NFL career than Ben?" Completely rhetorical and disingenuous.

[Mojouw]

Here is the math of it: There are 11 playoff games per year including the Super Bowl. With 32 teams in the league, on average you ought to win about 3.5 playoff games per decade just by showing up. So in that respect, we have been slightly below average.

Sure, that's not a terrible performance on the face of it, but is that what you expect out of someone who is supposed to be one of the best coaches in the league, one that other teams would kill to hire?

Add in the fact that for the majority of that decade, we had a Hall of Fame QB in his prime and most teams didn't, and it really starts to piss you off that we didn't get better results. The fact that it's hard to win consistently in the NFL is no excuse to settle for mediocrity and go oh well.

The math on that doesn't work out for the majority of NFL franchises.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/784525/nfl-team-ranking-by-all-time-postseason-wins/
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-playoff-wins-by-an-nfl-team-last-25-years

It assumes a normal distribution of "wins" and everything we have to examine indicates that this set of variables is not functioning like a normal distribution -- so simple averages and other calculations do not apply.

[Mojouw]

This is such a lame argument that gets thrown around all the time. Of course if you limit your thinking to well-established names who have been around the NFL for years and are also available for hire immediately, you are going to come up with zip. But that is just by being deliberately obtuse for the sake of proving a point.

Who were Belichick, Carroll, Reid, and Payton before they were successful NFL coaches? Were they already NFL head coaches with a 10+ year track record of success? No? Then how did they ever do it? It's almost as if there are other people out there who might turn into good head coaches if you hire them. In fact, you might say that's how every single successful NFL coach is found.

This whole line of thinking is no different from saying, "How are we ever going to find our next QB in the draft? Who's coming out of college this year that's had a better NFL career than Ben?" Completely rhetorical and disingenuous.

For me, that isn't the argument at all. Of course there is the next great NFL coach out there. And it is almost certainly someone that no one is talking about right now. And it will be a significant boon to whatever NFL franchise identifies and hires that person.

The argument is that Mike Tomlin needs to be fired because he does not meet reasonable job performance expectations. I have been arguing for years that this is not a valid statement. The definition of "reasonable job performance" on this message board is so wildly skewed and out of whack that it prevents many from appreciating that almost unprecedented run of success that the Tomlin/Colbert/Ben era Steelers have experienced.

[Steeler-in-west]

This is such a lame argument that gets thrown around all the time. Of course if you limit your thinking to well-established names who have been around the NFL for years and are also available for hire immediately, you are going to come up with zip. But that is just by being deliberately obtuse for the sake of proving a point.

Who were Belichick, Carroll, Reid, and Payton before they were successful NFL coaches? Were they already NFL head coaches with a 10+ year track record of success? No? Then how did they ever do it? It's almost as if there are other people out there who might turn into good head coaches if you hire them. In fact, you might say that's how every single successful NFL coach is found.

This whole line of thinking is no different from saying, "How are we ever going to find our next QB in the draft? Who's coming out of college this year that's had a better NFL career than Ben?" Completely rhetorical and disingenuous.

that's right, the steelers will have to decide what they want in a new head coach (when that moment arrives) and look around the league and do their research. Noll was an assistant to Shula when they found him, Cowher and Tomlin were DC's. the next HC is again going to be some assistant in the league who gets his chance. I think what separates Noll from Cowher and Tomlin was his attention to detail and emphasis on the routine things in practice until the players mastered it in the games. I think we need to find a coach that will get us back to that.

But like i've said before, a more pressing need may be the Rooney's needing to spend more money on finding good coordinators outside the organization

[steelreserve]

The math on that doesn't work out for the majority of NFL franchises.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/784525/nfl-team-ranking-by-all-time-postseason-wins/
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-playoff-wins-by-an-nfl-team-last-25-years

It assumes a normal distribution of "wins" and everything we have to examine indicates that this set of variables is not functioning like a normal distribution -- so simple averages and other calculations do not apply.

The point is that I think we had the tools to do better than that. Most importantly, we had a great QB the whole time. For a number of years, we also had a great offense in general. The point is that we should not have been among the majority of teams that the math didn't work out for - we should've been one of the ones skewing the numbers by hogging all their wins. It was disappointing, given what we had to work with. A big underachievement.


For me, that isn't the argument at all. Of course there is the next great NFL coach out there. And it is almost certainly someone that no one is talking about right now. And it will be a significant boon to whatever NFL franchise identifies and hires that person.

The argument is that Mike Tomlin needs to be fired because he does not meet reasonable job performance expectations. I have been arguing for years that this is not a valid statement. The definition of "reasonable job performance" on this message board is so wildly skewed and out of whack that it prevents many from appreciating that almost unprecedented run of success that the Tomlin/Colbert/Ben era Steelers have experienced.

Eh. Andy Dalton or Alex Smith had "reasonable job performance," but the goal is to win the Super Bowl, and how likely are they to get you there? The standard is not how many decent regular seasons you have, or how many near misses if only X and Y had gone your way. The goal is to win the championship, and by that standard we haven't gotten any closer in 10 years, and truthfully we've never been very close.

I'm sure Tomlin would manage to have reasonable success if he coached another team, maybe grind out a couple 10-win seasons with the Panthers or something, but after 10 years of him being past the "Cowher's players" threshold with a team he was firmly in charge of building himself - he does not look like the guy who is going to get you all the way up the mountain. It doesn't matter that he'll get you halfway up the mountain and most people can't make it halfway; that's not the goal. I would say that if reasonable job performance is your standard, that is not compatible with the extreme demands and cutthroat competition of professional sports.

[Mojouw]

They did collect a disproportionate amount of playoff appearances and victories. The entire premise that they did not is not supported by any available data.

The SB or bust argument means every coach in the league should be fired. No one is meeting it.

[86WARD]

This is such a lame argument that gets thrown around all the time. Of course if you limit your thinking to well-established names who have been around the NFL for years and are also available for hire immediately, you are going to come up with zip. But that is just by being deliberately obtuse for the sake of proving a point.

Who were Belichick, Carroll, Reid, and Payton before they were successful NFL coaches? Were they already NFL head coaches with a 10+ year track record of success? No? Then how did they ever do it? It's almost as if there are other people out there who might turn into good head coaches if you hire them. In fact, you might say that's how every single successful NFL coach is found.

This whole line of thinking is no different from saying, "How are we ever going to find our next QB in the draft? Who's coming out of college this year that's had a better NFL career than Ben?" Completely rhetorical and disingenuous.

Lol…wut?

Has nothing to do with finding a “new” coach. Name a current one…

[steelreserve]

They did collect a disproportionate amount of playoff appearances and victories. The entire premise that they did not is not supported by any available data.

The SB or bust argument means every coach in the league should be fired. No one is meeting it.

Look, by that logic, hardly anyone should ever be benched and hardly anyone should be fired, and we should all just be content with being like everyone else. I don't think that's the right mentality that it takes to become a dominant team. Even a "fuck the prom queen" mentality is not going to cut it. You need a "buttfuck the prom queen right in front of her friends" mentality, and we haven't got that.

[Mach1]

Everybody gets one.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/8jHhGA4dtTFU2oKrr2eF1Ummc3pDrufcbv-IQgw9i09iitevsNTpt07KunlKq0onKd0t93pgVUrFqnQwXPIKy KT_kVvQP26qEifRpl0

[Steel Peon]

But you could go through the greatest of head coaches and cherry pick first round players out that they didn’t “develop”. Belichick has a laundry list of first and second round players that have never developed. Any of them with a WR designation to start. Dominique Easley never developed. Laurence Maroney was a waste.
Again, I will never gather this kind of information, so I have to concede the point because I have no frame of reference.

[tube517]

1465908518846967813 Happy December! :chuckle:

[Steeldude]

This reminds me of the Kordell days.

[pepsyman1]

As far as Tomlin, if he left Pittsburgh at 4:00 PM on the last day of the 2021 season, he’d be somewhere else by 4:15. Bank on that.

100% right that someone would snap him up immediately. My issue is that based on the last 11 years watching what he's done in Pittsburgh, my guess is that he would probably end up with a totally acceptable .500 record and would occasionally win a playoff game but would never sniff at another title.

[86WARD]

This reminds me of the Kordell days.

I’d take Kordell in a second if they could get an RPO OC in here.

[Steeldude]

I’d take Kordell in a second if they could get an RPO OC in here.

Kordell couldn’t throw and was dumb as a stump. He should have been a WR or RB.

[86WARD]

Kordell couldn’t throw and was dumb as a stump. He should have been a WR or RB.

Most RPO QBs can’t throw…lol.

[Dwinsgames]

Kordell couldn’t throw and was dumb as a stump. He should have been a WR or RB.

I'd argue he throws as good as Lamar Jackson ( or better )

the stats wont indicate it because they are defended differently as the system then encouraged Kordell to not utilize his most valuable asset ( his feet )

[Mojouw]

I'd argue he throws as good as Lamar Jackson ( or better )

the stats wont indicate it because they are defended differently as the system then encouraged Kordell to not utilize his most valuable asset ( his feet )

If Stewart entered the league right now...he'd be a star. He almost made playing his style of QB work in an era where no one really embraced that. Now? He's what many offensive coaches are looking for. I shudder to think what Stewart and Randall Cunningham could do in the league now.

[86WARD]

If Stewart entered the league right now...he'd be a star. He almost made playing his style of QB work in an era where no one really embraced that. Now? He's what many offensive coaches are looking for. I shudder to think what Stewart and Randall Cunningham could do in the league now.

Cunningham? Good God he’d be ridiculous…

[hawaiiansteeler]

If we only look at the last decade (as people who want to blame everything on Tomlin like to do), would Ben be a HoF QB?​

I think the answer is pretty clear. Good, but not great. And pretty error prone in the playoffs.

[teegre]

I'd argue he throws as good as Lamar Jackson ( or better )

the stats wont indicate it because they are defended differently as the system then encouraged Kordell to not utilize his most valuable asset ( his feet )

Bingo!!! Ray Sherman told Kordell “Do NOT run!!!” From what I remember, there was a racist undertone to Sherman’s remarks (if I recall, the quote was: “Don't play like a BLACK quarterback”). Regardless, Sherman took away Kordell’s biggest asset: his legs.

BEFORE Sherman:
2nd-&-8… nothing open… run for 12

Eventually defenses had to stack the box, and Kordell could make those throws to wide open receivers. Yes, “wide open receivers” was all he could realistically do… but, with 8 defenders in the box to stop him from running, those open looks came in droves.

AFTER Sherman:
2nd-&-8… nothing open… do not run… throw it???

[Steeldude]

Most RPO QBs can’t throw…lol.

And that’s why you don’t need a RPO QB in the NFL. I prefer QBs who can throw and handle more than two different plays.

- - - Updated - - -


I'd argue he throws as good as Lamar Jackson ( or better )

the stats wont indicate it because they are defended differently as the system then encouraged Kordell to not utilize his most valuable asset ( his feet )

Teams stacked the box because KS couldn’t throw. Defenses wanted KS to throw. KS had a 41 QB rating in the post season.

[Mojouw]

Well, we have an RPO QB now. What do you think all those sub 2 second throws with Harris also in the backfield are? The "run" in RPO is not QB runs.

For someone who makes such definitive statements about football...I'm not sure you know much about what you are actually talking about.

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://i.redd.it/bgshsow5yj381.jpg

[pepsyman1]

OMG....a FULLBACK in use again....and amazingly a 6 yard run

[Lady Steel]

1467662552737980419

[Steeldude]

Well, we have an RPO QB now. What do you think all those sub 2 second throws with Harris also in the backfield are? The "run" in RPO is not QB runs.

For someone who makes such definitive statements about football...I'm not sure you know much about what you are actually talking about.

And there is a difference between college RPO, which he was referring to, and RPO in the pros. Begin crying again, liberal.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/2/12/17003364/rpo-run-pass-options-nfl-college-rules

[DesertSteel]

https://i.redd.it/bgshsow5yj381.jpg


And McAfee is the biggest moron on radio.

[Mojouw]

And there is a difference between college RPO, which he was referring to, and RPO in the pros. Begin crying again, liberal.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/2/12/17003364/rpo-run-pass-options-nfl-college-rules

I’m not crying. Offensive philosophy is far divorced from politics. I just think you don’t know what you’re talking about.

[Steeler-in-west]

https://i.redd.it/bgshsow5yj381.jpg

what an idiot, ex punter with a gutter mouth

[Steeler-in-west]

Kordell had no business being a pocket passer, Once he stopped being slash he went downhill,

as far as coaches, when the Steelers do part ways with Tomlin there are a lot of up and coming coordinators out there, offensive and defensive, Bienemy, Bowles, leftwich, kingsbury….

[86WARD]

what an idiot, ex punter with a gutter mouth

Why because he’s right?

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

Why because he’s right?

McAfee is right that the Steelers fans are spoiled compared to most other franchises.

McAfee never criticizes any NFL players or coaches though. Softball "journalism." His default will always be to shelter NFL personnel from criticism.

Tomlin: Success is measured in winning super bowls.

McAfee: Yinz are spoiled! Yinz can't hold Tomlin to his own standard!

[Steeler-in-west]

Why because he’s right?

no, aside from his foul mouth (he’s supposed to be a talk show host not a guy at a bar) he’s totally not right. Fans have a right to complain about underperforming and losing to teams we obviously should not be losing to. our playoff record last eleven years has been 3-6. Chuck Nolls 80’s team which many of us regard as a down era was 2-4 in the playoffs between 81-89.

How many HOFers did Noll have on that team -aside from an older John Stallworth? Noll was forced out in 90’. Although his postseason performance hasn’t been much better with much more talent Tomlin is still around. I’m not saying fire him now, but I certainly understand the frustration and his tenure is getting stale

[86WARD]

no, aside from his foul mouth (he’s supposed to be a talk show host not a guy at a bar) he’s totally not right. Fans have a right to complain about underperforming and losing to teams we obviously should not be losing to. our playoff record last eleven years has been 3-6. Chuck Nolls 80’s team which many of us regard as a down era was 2-4 in the playoffs between 81-89.

How many HOFers did Noll have on that team -aside from an older John Stallworth? Noll was forced out in 90’. Although his postseason performance hasn’t been much better with much more talent Tomlin is still around. I’m not saying fire him now, but I certainly understand the frustration and his tenure is getting stale

That’s just it…he’s not a talk show host. He’s a cocky ex-punter with a microphone and claims to be no more than that…well maybe a wwf announcer too…

We Steelers fans can complain all we want but we are spoiled when it comes to the general NFL fan…very spoiled…lol. Which is a good thing as far as I’m concerned.

[86WARD]

Imagine the outrage right now had Tomlin made the call that Harbaugh did with the same result…

https://media4.giphy.com/media/26gJzQj558kmHBTP2/giphy.gif

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Imagine the outrage right now had Tomlin made the call that Harbaugh did with the same result…

https://media4.giphy.com/media/26gJzQj558kmHBTP2/giphy.gif

Definitely.

I am just waiting for all the Steeler fans that like to say things like "Tomlin never has his team motivated to play", "Tomlin always has his teams underprepared", "Tomlin is wasting all this talent and losing with it"...to come out and explain how the Steelers defeated the Ravens with several players that fans had to google who they were, like #57, #77, #25.

[Mojouw]

Definitely.

I am just waiting for all the Steeler fans that like to say things like "Tomlin never has his team motivated to play", "Tomlin always has his teams underprepared", "Tomlin is wasting all this talent and losing with it"...to come out and explain how the Steelers defeated the Ravens with several players that fans had to google who they were, like #57, #77, #25.

A few have started to try. Something along the lines of the Steelers didn't beat the Ravens but the Ravens gave the game away. Other nonsensical ramblings about needing to bully teams tends to follow.

I can't believe it looks like I am going to have to eat all of my words about Witherspoon. Not only did he look more than useless, he looked like he deserves another chance to start. Unbelievable.

- - - Updated - - -


Definitely.

I am just waiting for all the Steeler fans that like to say things like "Tomlin never has his team motivated to play", "Tomlin always has his teams underprepared", "Tomlin is wasting all this talent and losing with it"...to come out and explain how the Steelers defeated the Ravens with several players that fans had to google who they were, like #57, #77, #25.

A few have started to try. Something along the lines of the Steelers didn't beat the Ravens but the Ravens gave the game away. Other nonsensical ramblings about needing to bully teams tends to follow.

I can't believe it looks like I am going to have to eat all of my words about Witherspoon. Not only did he look more than useless, he looked like he deserves another chance to start. Unbelievable.

[Dwinsgames]

this thread and all the others like it ......

the Fire Tomlin crowd is VOCAL at every loss at why he should go ....

The Your crazy to fire Tomlin crowd is VOCAL at every win as to why you are wrong .....

I can see logic in both sides but knowing the team he has a few more seasons or mediocrity left in him before they force him out like they did Noll and B.A. and Lebeau ..........

[Rotorhead]

Let’s be honest, if we had the same number of injuries the Ravens have, we would be winless

[vasteeler]

Definitely.

I am just waiting for all the Steeler fans that like to say things like "Tomlin never has his team motivated to play", "Tomlin always has his teams underprepared", "Tomlin is wasting all this talent and losing with it"...to come out and explain how the Steelers defeated the Ravens with several players that fans had to google who they were, like #57, #77, #25.

Lol... Guilty, I had no idea who any of those guys were

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Let’s be honest, if we had the same number of injuries the Ravens have, we would be winless

If the Penguins won more games last year, they would have been Stanley Cup Champions. If I had the correct lottery numbers, I would be a millionaire.

I dont get how posing alternate reality situations, furthers any topic, other than to try to make a point that is not present reality.

- - - Updated - - -


Lol... Guilty, I had no idea who any of those guys were

It took me 20 seconds to remember that they signed Leglue to the active roster and remember he was 77. I too had to look up #57, because I thought John Fiala looked a lot bigger than he used to. :wink02:

[Fire Goodell]

Let’s be honest, if we had the same number of injuries the Ravens have, we would be winless

if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle :chuckle:

[Rotorhead]

If the Penguins won more games last year, they would have been Stanley Cup Champions. If I had the correct lottery numbers, I would be a millionaire.

I dont get how posing alternate reality situations, furthers any topic, other than to try to make a point that is not present reality.

- - - Updated - - -



It took me 20 seconds to remember that they signed Leglue to the active roster and remember he was 77. I too had to look up #57, because I thought John Fiala looked a lot bigger than he used to. :wink02:

I was stating the plainly obvious fact that the Ravens are dealing with far more injuries than we are currently and have a better record. This moves the conversation on coaching forward by showing how a different successful coach can affect a team. I thought that was pretty obvious, but I apparently needed to spell it out for some here . . .

Also, half the posts on this board don’t move any conversation forward, including your response.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I was stating the plainly obvious fact that the Ravens are dealing with far more injuries than we are currently and have a better record. This moves the conversation on coaching forward by showing how a different successful coach can affect a team. I thought that was pretty obvious, but I apparently needed to spell it out for some here . . .

Also, half the posts on this board don’t move any conversation forward, including your response.

Not really. The Ravens injuries have been a lot of RB, so you just keep finding the next best RB to fill in. Ronnie Stanley goes down and they just move veteran LT Villanueva over there.

Can point to a lot of Steelers injuries this season that have limited their starters and reserves. JuJu, AluAlu, Tuitt, Hassenauer, Haden, Spillane, Dotson..... Its next man up and you coach the guys that you have on gameday. The fact that the Steelers just beat the Ravens and have defensive sub packages involving Maulet, Witherspoon and Norwood, while elevating practice squadders like Leglue, Tuszka and Adams to get significant playing time, shows some coaching skill to win with 3rd string players.

[fansince'76]

Yet despite supposedly vastly superior coaching to the Steelers, the Ravens have all of 4 playoff appearances in the last 8 years (2013-20), have a 2-4 playoff record during that span and haven't gotten past the divisional round since "God's Linebacker" was still on the team almost a decade ago...

[teegre]

This reminds of back in 2010 when everyone was praising the Packers for winning the Super Bowl with the most players on IR. The thing was, most of those players were backups (or third string). It certainly hurt their depth, but there weren’t many starters missing games.

The Ravens just lost Humphrey for the season. (It’s why Harbaugh went for two… because, DJ would have eaten the backup corner for dinner.) The loss of Humphrey HURTS, because IMO, Humphrey is the best overall corner in the entire league.

[86WARD]

if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle :chuckle:

Meh…nowadays that’s questionable…

[teegre]

Meh…nowadays that’s questionable…

Post. Of. The. Week!!! :applaudit:

[HollywoodSteel]

Meh…nowadays that’s questionable…

Nowadays your aunt doesn't need a dick to become your uncle. She just has to identify as your uncle and it is so.

[Fire Goodell]

time for a new coach, tomlin and his flunkie coordinators have had enough chances to right this ship

[pepsyman1]

time for a new coach, tomlin and his flunkie coordinators have had enough chances to right this ship

Well said....I concur

[86WARD]

time for a new coach, tomlin and his flunkie coordinators have had enough chances to right this ship

Either Tomlin fires the coordinators or the whole group goes. Rooney’s need to step in and make it happen.

[Fire Goodell]

Either Tomlin fires the coordinators or the whole group goes. Rooney’s need to step in and make it happen.

Both. Honestly Every good coach leaves their 'stamp' on a team somehow and creates their identity. Usually they're a coach that coaches up x's and o's or physicality. What identity do Tomlin teams have? IMO since he's taken over the team has gotten softer and has had a habit of showing up to games ridiculously unprepared. Something has to change but honestly the kind of problems this team has is coming from upstairs. The Steelers won't win another championship with Tomlin as the HC. He's overrated and has been riding Ben's coat tails for his entire career.

[Steeler-in-west]

Man this felt like Ben trying to bail out Tomlin and his staff

i know he just wanted the win but it looked like a bail out of ineptitude . Ben’s got to be frustrated after this game

[Steel Peon]

Golden Oldie, going back to December 30th of 2015

LOST CAUSE

Tomlin's record against sub-.500 teams at the time they played them over the past two years (4-7) has come under scrutiny.

Tomlin said that's something he would look at during the offseason.

“Really, I'm in the midst of this 2015 season,” Tomlin said. “Painting with a broad brush and looking over the course of an extended period of time and things of that nature, that's stuff you do in the offseason. So we'll do it at that time.”

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/9709687-74/tomlin-ravens-steelers#ixzz3vpIiAJoR
So yeah, same shit, different decade

[Lloydwoodsonjr]

Either Tomlin fires the coordinators or the whole group goes. Rooney’s need to step in and make it happen.

The coordinators are not the problem. Dick Lebeau was one of the best DC ever and Bruce Arians has had tremendous success as a HC.

The team's identity has always been the same under Tomlin. He has always favored "weapons" at the expense of the OL since the 2008 draft.

Tomlin has never cared about the run. Anything out of the FO demanding a running game is from Rooney.

Tomlin's base defense is the nickel. He got rid of the 2 gap system and 4-3. (Other teams did too just saying)

Tomlin has run the offense out of shotgun almost his entire tenure. Lead blocking is gone. Runs are often draws that don't fool anyone.

You can keep changing coordinators but this is Tomlin's team. It won't change.

[Rotorhead]

Man this felt like Ben trying to bail out Tomlin and his staff

i know he just wanted the win but it looked like a bail out of ineptitude . Ben’s got to be frustrated after this game

Ben was frustrated, I am pretty sure he told the coaches to F off and just took over the offense and almost won the game.

[pczach]

Ben was frustrated, I am pretty sure he told the coaches to F off and just took over the offense and almost won the game.



I think that's the most pissed off I ever saw Ben. It was a complete shitshow in the first half. Screwups everywhere, and for much of that game...he was struggling to catch nearly every snap. The interception when Johnson quit on the route.

Even Aikman said he thought Ben was holding it together better than he would have.

To anyone paying attention, Ben held that whole thing together, and demonstrated the will to win for 60 minutes. He showed why he's a HOF quarterback. I hope his entire team was paying attention, because that's what it takes to be great.

[86WARD]

I think that's the most pissed off I ever saw Ben. It was a complete shitshow in the first half. Screwups everywhere, and for much of that game...he was struggling to catch nearly every snap. The interception when Johnson quit on the route.

Even Aikman said he thought Ben was holding it together better than he would have.

To anyone paying attention, Ben held that whole thing together, and demonstrated the will to win for 60 minutes. He showed why he's a HOF quarterback. I hope his entire team was paying attention, because that's what it takes to be great.

Agree.

I’m not quite sure what the hell Green was doing 3/4 of the game. Terrible snaps throughout the whole game, times where he just didn’t snap the ball. I can understand once, but he didn’t snap it a few times and one time probably should’ve been a delay of game penalty but wasn’t. The O-Line wasn’t this bad with Mahan in there…lol.

[Rotorhead]

The most frustrating thing about the last 3 games is this team shows the ability to absolutely dominate, and they also look like the worst team in the NFL. The Jekyll and Hyde act is getting ridiculous

[Mojouw]

Agree.

I’m not quite sure what the hell Green was doing 3/4 of the game. Terrible snaps throughout the whole game, times where he just didn’t snap the ball. I can understand once, but he didn’t snap it a few times and one time probably should’ve been a delay of game penalty but wasn’t. The O-Line wasn’t this bad with Mahan in there…lol.

His snaps appear to have caused multiple false starts too from what I’ve read?


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[Dwinsgames]

I guess my BIGGEST 2 things in this are

1) this football team has the ability to move the football in the hurry up offense seemingly every time they go to it , that means your QB is calling a better game than the guy getting paid to call the game

2) this is the worst def this team has fielded in SEVERAL statistical departments in several decades

Its is incumbent on the head coach to recognize these things and make corrections , if that means neutering the OC and taking play calling away from him and handing it directly to your QB to succeed then you do it ....

if your DC isnt making adjustments until half time it is your job to step in and make changes ....

seemingly neither is happening until we are down so much we need a miracle to pull out a victory and Old Man Ben nearly delivers those miracles . if we played even half as well the first 3 quarters we win going away by 2+ scores not just in the Vikings game but chargers and Lions too

[Rotorhead]

I guess my BIGGEST 2 things in this are

1) this football team has the ability to move the football in the hurry up offense seemingly every time they go to it , that means your QB is calling a better game than the guy getting paid to call the game

2) this is the worst def this team has fielded in SEVERAL statistical departments in several decades

Its is incumbent on the head coach to recognize these things and make corrections , if that means neutering the OC and taking play calling away from him and handing it directly to your QB to succeed then you do it ....

if your DC isnt making adjustments until half time it is your job to step in and make changes ....

seemingly neither is happening until we are down so much we need a miracle to pull out a victory and Old Man Ben nearly delivers those miracles . if we played even half as well the first 3 quarters we win going away by 2+ scores not just in the Vikings game but chargers and Lions too

I pretty much agree with this