Coach Cowher just said.... SIT BEN NEXT WEEK.... What say you ?

[katmandu]

Yes, rest his ass and get ready for the Playoff run !

[Shoes]

That is a double-edged sword.

[ShoeHorn]

Sit whoever you want. Just avoid a first round matchup with the Ravens. Whatever it takes.

[BlackAndGold]

I asked this during the PG thread. Is it better to let him build off of this performance or do you give a week off for much needed rest.

Note: Ben seems to be 'slow starter' after a week off.

[fansince'76]

Play him a series or two and then bring Rudolph in.

[EzraTank]

It depends on what happens with the Bills. If Miami is the #7 seed that means that they beat Buffalo. You want the #2 seed over #3.

[86WARD]

It’s probably going to be the Browns or the Ravens. I say play a half and then rest.

[HollywoodSteel]

I think it’s a no brainer. You sit Ben.

Didn’t we want a bye? That’s what this is and he needs it. I know he can be a slow starter after a week off, but his body needs the rest

[Shoes]

Garrett-Rudolph 2


Mason's new helmet for next week.

https://i.postimg.cc/Gtx0Cy94/mh.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

:lol:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I say sit Fichtner for this week and see if that energizes the offense. 4 plays from the 1 yard line and you cant score a TD?? 3rd and 2 at the end of the game and you call a play for an out to Johnson behind the LOS where he is tackled for no gain?? He's only hurting the team.

[HollywoodSteel]

Garrett-Rudolph 2


Mason's new helmet for next week.

https://i.postimg.cc/Gtx0Cy94/mh.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

:lol:

That’s the last thing you’d want to get pummeled with

[lipps83]

I say sit Fichtner for this week and see if that energizes the offense. 4 plays from the 1 yard line and you cant score a TD?? 3rd and 2 at the end of the game and you call a play for an out to Johnson behind the LOS where he is tackled for no gain?? He's only hurting the team.

This is the only strategy sit I would care about.

[pczach]

Garrett-Rudolph 2


Mason's new helmet for next week.

https://i.postimg.cc/Gtx0Cy94/mh.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

:lol:





Rudolph is making his way to the next game.


https://media.giphy.com/media/dGw2Zn6mlKhHO/giphy.gif

[Shoes]

Rudolph is making his way to the next game.


https://media.giphy.com/media/dGw2Zn6mlKhHO/giphy.gif


:lol:

[pczach]

https://media.giphy.com/media/xUPJPzEacOpOqgJ0aY/giphy.gif

[teegre]

If the Bills lose tomorrow night, the #2 seed is out to lose. (If so, then you play Ben.)

:director: GO TAPERIOTS!!!

I know, I know... it’s counterintuitive. But, a win by the cheaters helps us get the #2 seed AND drops the Taperiots farther down in the draft order.

[st33lersguy]

The nfl screwed up the playoff positioning be cause they're greedy assholes so the difference between a 2 seed and a 3 seed is minuscule.

[Iron Steeler]

Play Josh Dobbs

[that1guy]

Ben had one good half of football in the last 5 weeks, he needs to continue improving and sitting him interrupts the continuity. Let's not gloss over what this offense has looked like since the Cowboys game.

[Blast Furnace]

Ben had one good half of football in the last 5 weeks, he needs to continue improving and sitting him interrupts the continuity. Let's not gloss over what this offense has looked like since the Cowboys game.

I think Ben got to the point today, knowing they needed to win this game, that he just said fuck it and went rogue today. I don't think the coaching staff liked him drawing plays in the dirt and winning games - it made them look bad! That's why you saw the offence over the last 5 weeks, he was being a good little boy and following coaches orders. Today I think he said fuck it again and took control!

[steelcityboyz]

Ben needs to play... he's not the sharpest when he has time off.

[FrancoLambert]

Play him a series or two and then bring Rudolph in.

Winner!!!

[teegre]

I think Ben got to the point today, knowing they needed to win this game, that he just said fuck it and went rogue today. I don't think the coaching staff liked him drawing plays in the dirt and winning games - it made them look bad! That's why you saw the offence over the last 5 weeks, he was being a good little boy and following coaches orders. Today I think he said fuck it again and took control!

The coaching staff told Ben to throw it short/behind his receivers, to throw INTs, and to ignore a wide open Claypool (multiple times)???

Thank goodness he stopped listening to them... and started throwing TDs instead.

[EzraTank]

The nfl screwed up the playoff positioning be cause they're greedy assholes so the difference between a 2 seed and a 3 seed is minuscule.

Exactly! They should have left it alone.

[HollywoodSteel]

I really don’t think the Steelers coaching staff looks at it the way fans do about Ben’s need for continuity. They’ll see his body’s need for the week off to be the greater priority.

[pczach]

The coaching staff told Ben to throw it short/behind his receivers, to throw INTs, and to ignore a wide open Claypool (multiple times)???

Thank goodness he stopped listening to them... and started throwing TDs instead.



NEXT GEN stats on NFL Network: In the 2nd half, Ben was 8-8, 145 yards, 2 TD on passes with 2.5+ seconds to throw.

You don't have time to go through all your progressions to find wide open WR's or pump fake with 2 seconds or less to throw the ball.

Offensive line play matters.

He was also doing it with ZERO running game.

[teegre]

As others have said, the difference between the #2 seed and the #3 seed is negligible (especially with no crowds). So, resting players might be worthwhile.

Ben plays rusty after bye weeks; so, maybe get him into rhythm for a half...???

That said, I rest TJ and Heyward for the entire game. Tuitt and Bince play a quarter. Minkah, Haden, and Nelson can play a half.

On offense, DeCastro, Boz, and Conner might need to sit/rest the entire game, as well. DJ should play a quarter, in order to maintain his timing with Ben... but, his ankle needs to heal. Luckily, Washington and Ray-Ray are very capable backups.

[teegre]

NEXT GEN stats on NFL Network: In the 2nd half, Ben was 8-8, 145 yards, 2 TD on passes with 2.5+ seconds to throw.

You don't have time to go through all your progressions to find wide open WR's or pump fake with 2 seconds or less to throw the ball.

Offensive line play matters.

He was also doing it with ZERO running game.

I was more referring to the Bengals game (since the other post was talking about the past 5 weeks).

But, for the Colts game, his first three throws of the game hit his receivers in the knees. I’m pretty sure that the coaches didn’t tell him to do that...

[Mojouw]

As others have said, the difference between the #2 seed and the #3 seed is negligible (especially with no crowds). So, resting players might be worthwhile.

Ben plays rusty after bye weeks; so, maybe get him into rhythm for a half...???

That said, I rest TJ and Heyward for the entire game. Tuitt and Bince play a quarter. Minkah, Haden, and Nelson can play a half.

On offense, DeCastro, Boz, and Conner might need to sit/rest the entire game, as well. DJ should play a quarter, in order to maintain his timing with Ben... but, his ankle needs to heal. Luckily, Washington and Ray-Ray are very capable backups.

Wouldn't the 2 versus 3 mean you avoid the Chiefs longer?

[teegre]

Wouldn't the 2 versus 3 mean you avoid the Chiefs longer?

Yes... but, I’m hoping for an Andy Reid playoff “fizzle out” in the divisional round. :wink02:

[pczach]

I was more referring to the Bengals game.

But, for the Colts game, his first three throws of the game hit his receivers in the knees. I’m pretty sure that the coaches didn’t tell him to do that...



OK. I wasn't implying that the coaches were telling him to do that. :chuckle:

Yes, he was awful in that Bengals game. There's no way around that. He made so many mental mistakes in that game. It was as bad a performance as I could remember by him. Even I was questioning Ben after that game, but the OL has just been beyond bad lately, not able to run the ball at all, and giving him no time in the pocket. If they can regroup and just get it done a little more so the offense could attack defenses down the field, the production would return. You could see how giving Ben the time to throw passes down the field with time to manipulate the safeties and step into his throws led to splash plays, which took a safety out of the box and kept the LB's from playing downhill. It opened up the underneath throws again, and you could see that there was more room even in the running game.

The offensive line is the engine that drives offenses.

[teegre]

OK. I wasn't implying that the coaches were telling him to do that. :chuckle:

Yes, he was awful in that Bengals game. There's no way around that. He made so many mental mistakes in that game. It was as bad a performance as I could remember by him. Even I was questioning Ben after that game, but the OL has just been beyond bad lately, not able to run the ball at all, and giving him no time in the pocket. If they can regroup and just get it done a little more so the offense could attack defenses down the field, the production would return. You could see how giving Ben the time to throw passes down the field with time to manipulate the safeties and step into his throws led to splash plays, which took a safety out of the box and kept the LB's from playing downhill. It opened up the underneath throws again, and you could see that there was more room even in the running game.

The offensive line is the engine that drives offenses.

Claypool draws the safety deep. I’m not sure why they don’t have him on the forks every down, and more specifically, why they don’t have him run a 9 route once per series (even if it doesn’t connect), just to make the safeties play deeper.

But, Yes, everything in football starts with the O-line.

[pczach]

Claypool draws the safety deep. I’m not sure why they don’t have him on the forks every down, and more specifically, why they don’t have him run a 9 route once per series (even if it doesn’t connect), just to make the safeties play deeper.

But, Yes, everything in football starts with the O-line.



Last year I defended Fichtner, because he didn't have a starting quarterback running his offense. I wanted to see more before I assessed his offensive design and play calling.

Well, after further review....I can't stand much of what he does from a play design standpoint, situational play calls, some route combinations, and overall feel for the game. I don't understand much of what he does at a strategic level, involving personnel and play calling. Claypool is a perfect example. Claypool is not perfect and there are parts of his game that need to be worked on, but he clearly stresses defenses and needs to be utilized more.

When they were 1st and goal from the 2 yard line and didn't get in, I know they had a run for a loss, and a drop by Claypool that would have been a TD, but the plays that were called in that spot were ridiculous. The field is compressed near the goal line to begin with, and he is running plays were all the receivers are running slants and in routes to the center of the field and having Ben looking to throw into a mass of defenders in the center of the end zone. He doesn't seem to understand time and space within the game, and fails to stress defenses horizontally and vertically consistently...particularly in situational football when you know defensive tendencies or proximity to the line of scrimmage. He seems to call plays that go right into the teeth of the defense at times, and don't keep defenses off balance.

Of course bad offensive line play hurts the offense. Of course the quarterback making incorrect reads or mental mistakes hurts things. Of course better execution of plays by the players is necessary. But he is routinely calling horizontal runs with slow RB's and his play calling is predictable. The coaching of the OL is also suspect when you look at the technique in run blocking and the overall approach they seem to take.

Coaches need to put players in a position to succeed. I just don't think he has done that consistently enough. I hope he is learning some things and is willing to make some changes based on what has or hasn't been working, but I'm not holding my breath.

I know I'm getting off of the subject of the thread, but I can't help it. It has to be said.

Far too often it appears the offense is being held back by Fichtner.

[Istina]

Play Ben in the 1st quarter. If he continues the positive play that he showed in the 2nd half today and the Steelers score 7-10 points, then sit him the rest of the way. If they struggle, you give him the 2nd quarter to get it ironed out and then sit him at half time regardless and hope fr the best the following week in the playoffs. Rest will be good for many players on the team right now.

[teegre]

@pczach

:nod:

As I mentioned (below) last week, the O-line is not as bad as it appears. Don’t get me wrong: DeCastro looks injured and AV needs to figure things out, but Fitchner puts them in a position to fail.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/32512-Randy-Fichtner-needs-to-be-fired-ASAP?p=754238&viewfull=1#post754238

[86WARD]

As things are right now, 2 seed would play Baltimore, 3 seed would play Cleveland and 4 seed would play Miami. I think I’d rather be the 4 seed at this moment...no?

[86WARD]

Last year I defended Fichtner, because he didn't have a starting quarterback running his offense. I wanted to see more before I assessed his offensive design and play calling.

Well, after further review....I can't stand much of what he does from a play design standpoint, situational play calls, some route combinations, and overall feel for the game. I don't understand much of what he does at a strategic level, involving personnel and play calling. Claypool is a perfect example. Claypool is not perfect and there are parts of his game that need to be worked on, but he clearly stresses defenses and needs to be utilized more.

When they were 1st and goal from the 2 yard line and didn't get in, I know they had a run for a loss, and a drop by Claypool that would have been a TD, but the plays that were called in that spot were ridiculous. The field is compressed near the goal line to begin with, and he is running plays were all the receivers are running slants and in routes to the center of the field and having Ben looking to throw into a mass of defenders in the center of the end zone. He doesn't seem to understand time and space within the game, and fails to stress defenses horizontally and vertically consistently...particularly in situational football when you know defensive tendencies or proximity to the line of scrimmage. He seems to call plays that go right into the teeth of the defense at times, and don't keep defenses off balance.

Of course bad offensive line play hurts the offense. Of course the quarterback making incorrect reads or mental mistakes hurts things. Of course better execution of plays by the players is necessary. But he is routinely calling horizontal runs with slow RB's and his play calling is predictable. The coaching of the OL is also suspect when you look at the technique in run blocking and the overall approach they seem to take.

Coaches need to put players in a position to succeed. I just don't think he has done that consistently enough. I hope he is learning some things and is willing to make some changes based on what has or hasn't been working, but I'm not holding my breath.

I know I'm getting off of the subject of the thread, but I can't help it. It has to be said.

Far too often it appears the offense is being held back by Fichtner.

There was a play they ran for a first down that got Conner wide open into the flat. It was a very well designed play where the receivers cleared out the left side of the field and Conner was alone with about 5-7 yards in front. They’ve never run that play at the goal line or in the red zone.

[teegre]

As things are right now, 2 seed would play Baltimore, 3 seed would play Cleveland and 4 seed would play Miami. I think I’d rather be the 4 seed at this moment...no?

I was fiddling around with the playoff simulator, and basically, the only real way to keep the Ravens out of the playoffs is for the Browns to win.

As it is, the Ravens will most likely end up as the #5 or #6 seed. In turn, getting the #2 seed becomes even more important.

SUMMATION:
Odds are that the Steelers are NOT playing the Ravens in the Wild Card round.

[teegre]

Steelers can get the #2 seed with...

...Steelers win and a Bills loss (this week or next week)

...two Bills losses (this week AND next week)

[Fire Goodell]

Steelers can get the #2 seed with...

...Steelers win and a Bills loss (this week or next week)

...two Bills losses (this week AND next week)

Hate to be a pessimist, but it's harder to get excited about a #2 seed in this new playoff format, it's bullshit. #2 seed should also get a first round bye

[EzraTank]

Yes... but, I’m hoping for an Andy Reid playoff “fizzle out” in the divisional round. :wink02:

Patrick Mahomes isn't going to allow that to happen anymore. Look at who Reid has as his QB's in the past. McNabb (very good but playoff choker), Alex Smith (very good but not great). Just like Cowher couldn't win until Ben came along. Mahomes is too good to lose games he shouldn't.


It stinks we play the same time as the Bills on Sunday. Unless the Bills lose tomorrow night finishing with the same record as them means we get the #3 seed no matter what since we can't fall below #3 no matter what. If the Bills are trouncing the Dolphins by half time I'd sit the starters for the 2nd half of our game.

[teegre]

Hate to be a pessimist, but it's harder to get excited about a #2 seed in this new playoff format, it's bullshit. #2 seed should also get a first round bye

True

That said, it guarantees that a matchup against the Chiefs would only occur in the AFCCG (which would give the Chiefs two games to possibly lose before then :wink02: ).

[cubanstogie]

I messed with playoff machine as well. My guess is we will play Browns, or colts. Any game they play is winnable. Besides KC if they play, I would guess most spreads will be -2 or -3 for Home team the 2-7 seeds are that close IMO. KC could be over TD favorite whoever they play. Lots of stress this post season in our future.

[teegre]

Patrick Mahomes isn't going to allow that to happen anymore. Look at who Reid has as his QB's in the past. McNabb (very good but playoff choker), Alex Smith (very good but not great). Just like Cowher couldn't win until Ben came along. Mahomes is too good to lose games he shouldn't.


It stinks we play the same time as the Bills on Sunday. Unless the Bills lose tomorrow night finishing with the same record as them means we get the #3 seed no matter what since we can't fall below #3 no matter what. If the Bills are trouncing the Dolphins by half time I'd sit the starters for the 2nd half of our game.

True
Then again, had the Falcons’ Pro Bowl kicker not missed...



If the Bills lose tonight, then the Steelers control their own destiny (which makes the Browns game interesting). If the Bills win tonight, then, Yes, we will be scoreboard watching next Sunday.

[tube517]

Sit Fichtner and Danny Smith. Take their headsets and gum and send them off somewhere.

[st33lersguy]

Sit Fichtner and Danny Smith. Take their headsets and gum and send them off somewhere.

I say (to spin off something from an old Favre quote), sit them for 2 weeks then fire them

[oneforthetoe]

If Ben doesn't want to sit that's fine. He can stand as long as he doesn't play.

[pczach]

@pczach

:nod:

As I mentioned (below) last week, the O-line is not as bad as it appears. Don’t get me wrong: DeCastro looks injured and AV needs to figure things out, but Fitchner puts them in a position to fail.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/32512-Randy-Fichtner-needs-to-be-fired-ASAP?p=754238&viewfull=1#post754238



I made some similar comments and share your view in the game day thread: http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/32529-2020-Week-16-STEELERS-Indianapolis-Colts/page10 Post 284.

[tube517]

I say (to spin off something from an old Favre quote), sit them for 2 weeks then fire them

I never said to bring them back :lol:

[Fire Goodell]

True

That said, it guarantees that a matchup against the Chiefs would only occur in the AFCCG (which would give the Chiefs two games to possibly lose before then :wink02: ).

Anything but the Ravens in week 1. No matter what, they always seem to be that team that even if we beat them, our squad is too beat up to continue weeks later and they just come out flat. I can't recall a single time when the Steelers came out firing the week after a Ravens game. Almost never.

I guess it's only natural that a highly physical and highly emotional game leads to a letdown the week later, but that's the main reason why I'm saying anyone but the Ravens

[DesertSteel]

I don't get why everyone is so afraid of the Ravens. I think our D has LJ's number.

[Fire Goodell]

I don't get why everyone is so afraid of the Ravens. I think our D has LJ's number.

It's not that we can't beat them, it's because how flat the team comes out historically AFTER playing the Ravens.

It could be just pure chance, but it's just a trend I've noticed over the years.

[teegre]

I don't get why everyone is so afraid of the Ravens. I think our D has LJ's number.

It’s tough to beat a division rival... especially three times in a season.

(But, Yes, we seem to handle LJ very well.)

[Crow-Magnon]

I was fiddling around with the playoff simulator, and basically, the only real way to keep the Ravens out of the playoffs is for the Browns to win.

As it is, the Ravens will most likely end up as the #5 or #6 seed. In turn, getting the #2 seed becomes even more important.

SUMMATION:
Odds are that the Steelers are NOT playing the Ravens in the Wild Card round.

Did you mean Bengals? Just asking, as no matter what the Browns do Sunday, if the Ravens win, they’re in the playoffs.

This Sunday is going to be interesting from a post-season seeding perspective. If the Steelers win, Cleveland will likely miss the playoffs, as the Colts should beat the Jags. Titans vs Texans may be interesting as JJ’s diatribe and playing a division rival at home (against a Titans team who looked sluggish against the Packers). Both the Titans and Colts will be playing for the AFCS title so both franchises should be stoked to play hard. The Browns-Steelers game will be interesting. If Cleveland wins, they’re in. If the Ravens win, they’re in. There could be three AFCN teams in the playoffs this year. If. Lots of ifs.

If Steelers rest any starters (especially Ben), and if the Browns get their WR corps back (looks like they will), the Browns may finally get that monkey off their backs. I have to admit if the Ravens were in the Steelers shoes, I would not want to roll over on a division rival.

Looking forward to Sunday. And remembering “4th and 12” from 2017.

[Iron Steeler]

Did you mean Bengals? Just asking, as no matter what the Browns do Sunday, if the Ravens win, they’re in the playoffs.

This Sunday is going to be interesting from a post-season seeding perspective. If the Steelers win, Cleveland will likely miss the playoffs, as the Colts should beat the Jags. Titans vs Texans may be interesting as JJ’s diatribe and playing a division rival at home (against a Titans team who looked sluggish against the Packers). Both the Titans and Colts will be playing for the AFCS title so both franchises should be stoked to play hard. The Browns-Steelers game will be interesting. If Cleveland wins, they’re in. If the Ravens win, they’re in. There could be three AFCN teams in the playoffs this year. If. Lots of ifs.

If Steelers rest any starters (especially Ben), and if the Browns get their WR corps back (looks like they will), the Browns may finally get that monkey off their backs. I have to admit if the Ravens were in the Steelers shoes, I would not want to roll over on a division rival.

Looking forward to Sunday. And remembering “4th and 12” from 2017.


I played with the playoff simulator too.

Ravens win and they are in!

Only the talentless Bengals could knock your Ravens out of the playoffs.


If the Bengals do beat the Ravens (They wont) then the Ravens need the Steelers to win.




There is a possibility if the streaking Dolphins beat the Bills and if the Browns beat the Steelers.

Then we will have a wildcard match up of Ravens vs Steelers.

[Fire Goodell]

Dolphins vs Bills should be interesting

[teegre]

Did you mean Bengals? Just asking, as no matter what the Browns do Sunday, if the Ravens win, they’re in the playoffs.

Ah yes. I meant that if the Ravens lose (I put that into all of my scenarios LOL), they could still make the playoffs if the Browns lose to the Steelers.

(Sunday will indeed be awesome. It’s like an extra weekend of playoff games.)

[Crow-Magnon]

I played with the playoff simulator too.

Ravens win and they are in!

Only the talentless Bengals could knock your Ravens out of the playoffs.


If the Bengals do beat the Ravens (They wont) then the Ravens need the Steelers to win.




There is a possibility if the streaking Dolphins beat the Bills and if the Browns beat the Steelers.

Then we will have a wildcard match up of Ravens vs Steelers.

I do not overlook the Bengals. Not one bit. Yeah, they are 4-10-1, but now have won two straight and have a chance to again spoil the Ravens advance to the post-season. They have nothing to lose.

Having said that, I would love to have the Ravens play the Steelers. Better the devil you know vs the one you don’t. If the Ravens have to play the Titans, I’d rather face them in the divisional weekend vs the initial wildcard slate of matchups. Not that I fear them, but I get the feeling that lately they’ve had the Ravens number, and both teams remember last year’s contest.

[DesertSteel]

It’s tough to beat a division rival... especially three times in a season.

(But, Yes, we seem to handle LJ very well.)
Since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970, there have been 21 times that teams met in the playoffs with a 3-game sweep on the line.
But, when those teams meet for the 3-game sweep, what happens? The sweep happens 67% of the time!

[teegre]

Since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970, there have been 21 times that teams met in the playoffs with a 3-game sweep on the line.
But, when those teams meet for the 3-game sweep, what happens? The sweep happens 67% of the time!

https://vimeo.com/65921206