Veteran QB Roulette

[Mojouw]

Watching bits and pieces of football today. And it looks like the curtain is going to come down on a few more Head Coach QB combos around the league. I honestly believe the following guys will be available this off-season:

Matt Stafford
Carson Wentz
Cam Newton
Mitch Trubisky
Nick Foles
Sam Darnold

So...assume these guys are all available. Assume the salary cap or whatever could be made to work out. Further assume, that Ben R is out of the picture. Which guy would you want to magically transport to the Steelers roster and what would you part with to do it?

I would go with Carson Wentz on a steep discount. Offer the Iggles a 2020 second and a future 3rd. I honestly believe that Wentz is a re-build of his shattered confidence and faith in the offensive system away from returning to his previously winning form.

[teegre]

As I’ve said for months, I honestly think Darnold ends up here. I foresee our R2 being shipped to the Jets (although, I hope that it’s an early R3 pick instead).

That said, Stafford with this team... :willy: I’d trade our R1 pick to make that happen!!!

[NCSteeler]

What has Wentz ever done? Stafford or darnold. Honestly stafford is not alot younger than Ben is he?

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[Mojouw]

Stafford is 32, so 6 years younger than Ben.

I think the version of Wentz that was cruising to a SB and a consensus MVP before he got hurt and had to let Nick Foles finish the job is still in there somewhere. He is only 27. And when he was last healthy and playing well, he looked and played like a young Big Ben. That's why I would try and trade for him. Rehab his game and you have a QB that does things very similar to your outgoing franchise guy.

[st33lersguy]

Stafford is probably the best option but put Carson Wentz with a better OC then he will do better than he is in Philly now

[Mojouw]

As I’ve said for months, I honestly think Darnold ends up here. I foresee our R2 being shipped to the Jets (although, I hope that it’s an early R3 pick instead).

That said, Stafford with this team... :willy: I’d trade our R1 pick to make that happen!!!

I would as well. I truly believe that on a non-crappy team and Stafford has a borderline HOF career. In fact, he still basically does...just without the team success.

[NCSteeler]

We may all be discounting just how lights out Ben has been this year it previous years, when it mattered . He's put it in a rope and get it done. This year has been beyond previous years in that ability to just find a way

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[DesertSteel]

I’m pretty sure Wentz counts $48M against the Eagles’ cap next year. He’s not going anywhere.

Cam is Duante Culpepper. Done.

Trubisky is trash.

Foles is a relief pitcher.

I’d take Stafford in a heartbeat but Detroit isn’t letting him go at 32.

Darnold might be the only realistic option.

I’d take Gardner Minshew over all of them except Stafford.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I think Darnold could still be a franchise QB if he gets out of NY and in a good situation. Not sure about his attitude, if its good, if its bad or just beaten down by that situation.

Stafford is going to go somewhere to compete for playoffs and a SB if possible. I cant see him being a Steelers while Ben is still on the team, while Darnold could wait a year or 2 if the Steelers were to trade for him in the offseason.

[Mojouw]

Further assume, that Ben R is out of the picture. Which guy would you want to magically transport to the Steelers roster and what would you part with to do it?

This was the sorta key piece of the original hypothetical. And I didn''t realize Wentz contract was so loaded onto the 2021 cap. After next season is when Wentz becomes really really moveable.

[CV1]

I’d take Darnold and give up the 2021 2nd [emoji23]

With the 64th pick in the 2021 NFL Draft The New York Jets select, DB- Goober Butternuts - Kentucky


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[86WARD]

Went contract is HORRIFIC. $80M dead cap hit this season, $60M cap hit in 2021, $25M in 2022, a manageable $15M in 2023 and $6M in 2024.

If you are making that deal, you’d better make sure he’s the right one because you can’t get rid of him at those hits...

[NCSteeler]

Went contract is HORRIFIC. $80M dead cap hit this season, $60M cap hit in 2021, $25M in 2022, a manageable $15M in 2023 and $6M in 2024.

If you are making that deal, you’d better make sure he’s the right one because you can’t get rid of him at those hits...Philly done F'd up

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[EzraTank]

What has Wentz ever done? Stafford or darnold. Honestly stafford is not alot younger than Ben is he?

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The year the Eagles won the SB (2017) he lead the team to a 11-3 record before going down to a knee injury. He was fantastic. Since they he's been lost. Granted his offensive line retired, moved on, and is total shit now. His receivers are trash as well or injured.

If I had to pick off that list I would take him first but his contract makes that almost impossible now unless the Eagles eat half of it. He has the talent but his confidence has to be shot. He reminds me of a young Ben, a guy that has the ability to extend plays but holds the ball WAY too long. With better coaching he could be great again.

[NCSteeler]

The year the Eagles won the SB (2017) he lead the team to a 11-3 record before going down to a knee injury. He was fantastic. Since they he's been lost. Granted his offensive line retired, moved on, and is total shit now. His receivers are trash as well or injured.

If I had to pick off that list I would take him first but his contract makes that almost impossible now unless the Eagles eat half of it. He has the talent but his confidence has to be shot. He reminds me of a young Ben, a guy that has the ability to extend plays but holds the ball WAY too long. With better coaching he could be great again.Sounds like a standard one year wonder. If he was half of Ben he'd be finding ways to win

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[Fire Goodell]

Ryan Fitzpatrick maybe? Seems Miami is already rolling with Tua. Always wanted to see what Fitzy could do on a good team

[EzraTank]

Ryan Fitzpatrick maybe? Seems Miami is already rolling with Tua. Always wanted to see what Fitzy could do on a good team

Way too old.

I think it would be interesting to see what Stafford could do with a defense and receivers. Of course if we don't build any running game next year it would just be a ditto of this one.

[tube517]

1362442800344752141

[Born2Steel]

1362442800344752141

That could be big.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

1362442800344752141

This will be interesting to see if Philly uses the #6 pick on a QB, or they like what they have in Hurts.

Good on them for unloading that contract, but the Colts have something silly like over $70million in cap room.

[Born2Steel]

This will be interesting to see if Philly uses the #6 pick on a QB, or they like what they have in Hurts.

Good on them for unloading that contract, but the Colts have something silly like over $70million in cap room.

If they plan to go with Hurts, do they get him protection OL, or a weapon with Harris or Smith? Both guys he's familiar with at Bama.

[pczach]

If they plan to go with Hurts, do they get him protection OL, or a weapon with Harris or Smith? Both guys he's familiar with at Bama.



They already have an excellent RB. They need OL and WR help the most.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

If they plan to go with Hurts, do they get him protection OL, or a weapon with Harris or Smith? Both guys he's familiar with at Bama.

If they plan to go with Hurts, I am a fan of trading out of the #6 spot and getting an extra pick. They could trade back to #12 and get both the 1st and 2nd pick from SF, or trade back to #14 and get NE 1st and 2nd round picks.

They can then get an OT, WR and RB all in the first 2 rounds if they want. Or they can get an OT, C and a WR there. I think if they upgrade OT from the 39 year old Jason Peters, that is a start. This isnt a 1 year rebuild for the Eagles. I think you accumulate talented players and rebuild from the inside out of the line, but doesnt have to be the first round.

[DesertSteel]

A 3 and a 2... wow. If Wentz returns to old form, what a steal. Did the Steelers miss out on a Ben successor?

[cubanstogie]

A 3 and a 2... wow. If Wentz returns to old form, what a steal. Did the Steelers miss out on a Ben successor?
True, but if Haskins actually finds some form Steelers get a bigger steal. Of course IF my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle. I think the Colts got a good deal.

[NCSteeler]

A 3 and a 2... wow. If Wentz returns to old form, what a steal. Did the Steelers miss out on a Ben successor?We couldn't afford the contract. Indian maybe the only team in the league that could

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[hawaiiansteeler]

Philly done F'd up


$33,820,608 dead $$$ cap hit for the Eagles this season.

Wow!!!

[Mojouw]

This made far too much sense not to happen. Wentz goes to a coaching staff that he had success with or at least in a highly similar system. If anyone is going to fix Wentz, it was/is Indy.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

@Born2Steel, if I was the Eagles and able to trade back and pick up an extra 2nd round pick I would look at something like this:

R1. Najee Harris RB (a good running game is a QB's best friend)
R2. Nick Bolton LB Mizzou (Iggles LB group needs help)
R2. Walker Little OT Stanford (Opted out of 2020 season and may slip) or Liam Eichenberg if Little is gone
R3. Jordan Smith Edge UAB (have to look at Brandon Graham's replacement)

The Eagles spent draft picks on Jaylen Reagor and John Hightower at WR in 2020. They also have Travis Fulgham under contract, so have some young WR targets. They still have some good RB's, but I think Harris is special type RB. Plus they have 2 5th round picks to look at a C to replace Kelce in a year, or look at a #2 TE to put behind Goedart, or D line, CB.

[st33lersguy]

I think this is going to be tremendous for the Colts. Unlike the Eagles they have a great supporting cast and Frank Reich was with him on his best year. I'm sure Indy will use him better than Philly did

[pczach]

@Born2Steel, if I was the Eagles and able to trade back and pick up an extra 2nd round pick I would look at something like this:

R1. Najee Harris RB (a good running game is a QB's best friend)
R2. Nick Bolton LB Mizzou (Iggles LB group needs help)
R2. Walker Little OT Stanford (Opted out of 2020 season and may slip) or Liam Eichenberg if Little is gone
R3. Jordan Smith Edge UAB (have to look at Brandon Graham's replacement)

The Eagles spent draft picks on Jaylen Reagor and John Hightower at WR in 2020. They also have Travis Fulgham under contract, so have some young WR targets. They still have some good RB's, but I think Harris is special type RB. Plus they have 2 5th round picks to look at a C to replace Kelce in a year, or look at a #2 TE to put behind Goedart, or D line, CB.



Miles Sanders is a damn good RB.

If they draft Harris, I hope Sanders becomes available.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Miles Sanders is a damn good RB.

If they draft Harris, I hope Sanders becomes available.

For sure, Sanders is a good RB.

But do you know who has more rushing yards at Alabama than Derrick Henry(3591)? Najee Harris 3843 yards rushing.
Who has more rushing TD's than Henry (42TD)?........................................... ........ Najee Harris 46 TD.
Do you know who had a better avg yards from scrimmage than Henry (6.3 yds/play)? Najee Harris 6.4 yds /play.

I am not saying that Najee Harris is Derrick Henry, they are different type RB's as I think Harris has better cut ability, receiving and quickness. He does have better production at Alabama than any other RB of recent memory.

I think passing on a potential all pro RB like Harris, because you are satisfied with Miles Sanders, is like passing on Dan Marino, because you are satisfied with Cliff Stoudt in 1983.

[pczach]

For sure, Sanders is a good RB.

But do you know who has more rushing yards at Alabama than Derrick Henry(3591)? Najee Harris 3843 yards rushing.
Who has more rushing TD's than Henry (42TD)?........................................... ........ Najee Harris 46 TD.
Do you know who had a better avg yards from scrimmage than Henry (6.3 yds/play)? Najee Harris 6.4 yds /play.

I am not saying that Najee Harris is Derrick Henry, they are different type RB's as I think Harris has better cut ability, receiving and quickness. He does have better production at Alabama than any other RB of recent memory.

I think passing on a potential all pro RB like Harris, because you are satisfied with Miles Sanders, is like passing on Dan Marino, because you are satisfied with Cliff Stoudt in 1983.


Don't get me wrong. I love Harris.

What I'm saying is that they are weaker at every other offensive position than they are at RB.

I also think Bama's OL and offense in general was more dominant this year than any Alabama offense I have ever seen. Harris definitely benefited from that.

Lastly.....comparing Sanders to Cliff Stoudt is way out of line. That's hitting below the belt. :sofunny:

Sanders averages 4.9 yards per attempt behind that bad OL, and he's a good receiver as well. He had 1327 yards from scrimmage starting 11 games his rookie season.

That would be a hell of a tandem!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Don't get me wrong. I love Harris.

What I'm saying is that they are weaker at every other offensive position than they are at RB.

I also think Bama's OL and offense in general was more dominant this year than any Alabama offense I have ever seen. Harris definitely benefited from that.

Lastly.....comparing Sanders to Cliff Stoudt is way out of line. That's hitting below the belt. :sofunny:

Sanders averages 4.9 yards per attempt behind that bad OL, and he's a good receiver as well. He had 1327 yards from scrimmage starting 11 games his rookie season.

That would be a hell of a tandem!

I get what you are saying. My belief is that you take the BPA at a position of need. RB is a need, O line is a need. IMO, Harris may be more impactful as an NFL runner than Nick Chubb or Derrick Henry, while whatever O lineman they might draft instead in the 1st round may be as good as Lane Johnson, because the top 2 or 3 OT's will be off the board by then.

Reminds me of the Steelers drafting Troy Edwards, because they needed a WR and the other top WR's were already off the board. But they also needed O line IMO and they passed on John Tait, who instead went on to have a 10 year long career as a LT for the Bears and Chiefs. Seemingly they thought they had a bigger need at WR than OT. Steelers reached for Troy Edwards and instead had Anthony Brown at RT that year and had to go get Wayne Gandy in FA.

So I think you take the best player, rather than the bigger need in the draft and risk reaching for the lesser football player. And yes, the Cliff Stoudt comparison was hitting below the punching machine and breaking your arm on a post. I will admit that I went there for a bit of emphasis. :wink02:

[Born2Steel]

I get what you are saying. My belief is that you take the BPA at a position of need. RB is a need, O line is a need. IMO, Harris may be more impactful as an NFL runner than Nick Chubb or Derrick Henry, while whatever O lineman they might draft instead in the 1st round may be as good as Lane Johnson, because the top 2 or 3 OT's will be off the board by then.

Reminds me of the Steelers drafting Troy Edwards, because they needed a WR and the other top WR's were already off the board. But they also needed O line IMO and they passed on John Tait, who instead went on to have a 10 year long career as a LT for the Bears and Chiefs. Seemingly they thought they had a bigger need at WR than OT. Steelers reached for Troy Edwards and instead had Anthony Brown at RT that year and had to go get Wayne Gandy in FA.

So I think you take the best player, rather than the bigger need in the draft and risk reaching for the lesser football player. And yes, the Cliff Stoudt comparison was hitting below the punching machine and breaking your arm on a post. I will admit that I went there for a bit of emphasis. :wink02:

Agreed. The 1st round is always for BPA. This is where you build a team around the best players possible. Although this draft is DEEP with OTs, only a couple really stand out from the crowd. And the 'best of the crop' sat out a whole season. Once Najee Harris comes off the board, the 'need' for a 1st round RB kinda goes away too. There are players from nearly every position group that could be in play in the 1st depending on how the board falls. I have done about 20 mocks on the different SIMs and I have even had Trey Lance fall to pick 24 once.

[pczach]

I get what you are saying. My belief is that you take the BPA at a position of need. RB is a need, O line is a need. IMO, Harris may be more impactful as an NFL runner than Nick Chubb or Derrick Henry, while whatever O lineman they might draft instead in the 1st round may be as good as Lane Johnson, because the top 2 or 3 OT's will be off the board by then.

Reminds me of the Steelers drafting Troy Edwards, because they needed a WR and the other top WR's were already off the board. But they also needed O line IMO and they passed on John Tait, who instead went on to have a 10 year long career as a LT for the Bears and Chiefs. Seemingly they thought they had a bigger need at WR than OT. Steelers reached for Troy Edwards and instead had Anthony Brown at RT that year and had to go get Wayne Gandy in FA.

So I think you take the best player, rather than the bigger need in the draft and risk reaching for the lesser football player. And yes, the Cliff Stoudt comparison was hitting below the punching machine and breaking your arm on a post. I will admit that I went there for a bit of emphasis. :wink02:



How the hell are the Steelers going get Najee Harris if everyone is going to take the BPA? :bounce:

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

How the hell are the Steelers going get Najee Harris if everyone is going to take the BPA? :bounce:

Honestly, I think it wont happen. Harris should not get past the Dolphins (who coached him at Senior Bowl) at #18. And...I think the Jets select Etienne at #23. So the Steelers should look at another position at #24.

But stranger things have happened in the draft. Marcus Allen, Dan Marino, Randy Moss, Aaron Rodgers all slid in the first round, so who knows until it happens on draft day.

[Shoes]

Honestly, I think it wont happen. Harris should not get past the Dolphins (who coached him at Senior Bowl) at #18. And...I think the Jets select Etienne at #23. So the Steelers should look at another position at #24.

But stranger things have happened in the draft. Marcus Allen, Dan Marino, Randy Moss, Aaron Rodgers all slid in the first round, so who knows until it happens on draft day.

Art Rooney has been waiting for a running game (2009) longer than I've been waiting for a TE. (2014) :chuckle: . I'd say Art has 100% of Colbert's & Tomlin's attention after this season. You never know he just may bump up enough to grab Harris.

[Born2Steel]

Art Rooney has been waiting for a running game (2009) longer than I've been waiting for a TE. (2014) :chuckle: . I'd say Art has 100% of Colbert's & Tomlin's attention after this season. You never know he just may bump up enough to grab Harris.

As much as I do like Harris as a RB prospect, if the Steelers use draft capitol to trade up and draft any RB, EVER, it would be a huge mistake, IMO. Dominating the LOS is the goal, and using early picks on those that accomplish that has to be the plan. As Parcell's put it, get a QB, someone to protect the QB, or someone to get after the QB. I don't think there is any way this FO trades up to get Najee Harris. Now if he should fall to 24, now he is in the conversation. But he is still not the automatic pick.

[Shoes]

As much as I do like Harris as a RB prospect, if the Steelers use draft capitol to trade up and draft any RB, EVER, it would be a huge mistake, IMO. Dominating the LOS is the goal, and using early picks on those that accomplish that has to be the plan. As Parcell's put it, get a QB, someone to protect the QB, or someone to get after the QB. I don't think there is any way this FO trades up to get Najee Harris. Now if he should fall to 24, now he is in the conversation. But he is still not the automatic pick.

It wouldn't be the first huge mistake they made and I'm sure there are a few more on the horizon.

[Born2Steel]

It wouldn't be the first huge mistake they made and I'm sure there are a few more on the horizon.

As true as that statement is, it is still a mistake.

[Shoes]

As true as that statement is, it is still a mistake.

Art doesn't care what we think. :chuckle:

[Born2Steel]

Art doesn't care what we think. :chuckle:

Another true statement.

[Craic]

Ryan Fitzpatrick maybe? Seems Miami is already rolling with Tua. Always wanted to see what Fitzy could do on a good team

I wouldn't mind him as a two year stop gap. But not as a permanent replacement.

[pczach]

As much as I do like Harris as a RB prospect, if the Steelers use draft capitol to trade up and draft any RB, EVER, it would be a huge mistake, IMO. Dominating the LOS is the goal, and using early picks on those that accomplish that has to be the plan. As Parcell's put it, get a QB, someone to protect the QB, or someone to get after the QB. I don't think there is any way this FO trades up to get Najee Harris. Now if he should fall to 24, now he is in the conversation. But he is still not the automatic pick.



I agree with you. Particularly this year. I don't see them giving up draft picks to move up and take a RB in the 1st round. I just don't see it.

They have a lot of holes to fill, and not a lot of cap room. I think they need every single one of their picks to try to fill those holes.

In the unlikely event that they work out a trade for Big Ben and acquire more draft picks, all bets are off and it's open season on moving up and getting as many impact players as possible.

I think the only way they take Harris is if he falls to them and they can take him without moving up. @El-Gonzo is correct. He may be there.

[tube517]

Art Rooney has been waiting for a running game (2009) longer than I've been waiting for a TE. (2014) :chuckle: . I'd say Art has 100% of Colbert's & Tomlin's attention after this season. You never know he just may bump up enough to grab Harris.


This is always a wild card w/the Rooneys (Chief, Art Jr, Dan, Art II). They will have their say. I'm not saying Art II will be Jerrah Jones and do some crazy moves but if they have a feeling about a player, then they will override when necessary.

[Born2Steel]

I agree with you. Particularly this year. I don't see them giving up draft picks to move up and take a RB in the 1st round. I just don't see it.

They have a lot of holes to fill, and not a lot of cap room. I think they need every single one of their picks to try to fill those holes.

In the unlikely event that they work out a trade for Big Ben and acquire more draft picks, all bets are off and it's open season on moving up and getting as many impact players as possible.

I think the only way they take Harris is if he falls to them and they can take him without moving up. @El-Gonzo is correct. He may be there.

Actually E-G says Miami will take Harris most likely.

[pczach]

Actually E-G says Miami will take Harris most likely.



He also said that he could drop to us....you never know.

[teegre]

In the 13 games Frank Reich was the OC for Carson Wentz:

3296 passing yards
33 TDs / 7 INTs
60% completion percentage
102 QB-rating

SUMMATION:
The Colts won​ this trade.

[pczach]

In the 13 games Frank Reich was the OC for Carson Wentz:

3296 passing yards
33 TDs / 7 INTs
60% completion percentage
102 QB-rating

SUMMATION:
The Colts won​ this trade.



Wentz wasn't the same, and eventually the entire Eagles offense slowly fell apart after Reich left as his influence faded into Peterson's.

Peterson and Roseman got all the credit for the Super Bowl win. Reich was the guy that got the most out of the offensive talent, particularly Wentz......not the "offensive guru" Peterson.

Unless Wentz is a disaster, the Colts got the better of this deal.

[Disco1981]

I would like to see Mariotta ( not sure what the cost would be ) 3rd/ 4th? I just think with his skill set and Canadas supposed style...Run, lots of motion, jet sweeps, misdirection...Mariottas legs, and ability to pull the ball back, roll out and have the run /pass option threat ...would be enticing...

THIS scenario would be a completely different Offense than the one we've seen for quite awhile!

[hawaiiansteeler]

I would like to see Mariotta

can never have enough Hawaii boys on your team!

[Disco1981]

can never have enough Hawaii boys on your team!

Oh ya!

[pczach]

I would like to see Mariotta ( not sure what the cost would be ) 3rd/ 4th? I just think with his skill set and Canadas supposed style...Run, lots of motion, jet sweeps, misdirection...Mariottas legs, and ability to pull the ball back, roll out and have the run /pass option threat ...would be enticing...

THIS scenario would be a completely different Offense than the one we've seen for quite awhile!



I love Mariotta as a person, but I just don't think he's a good starting NFL quarterback. I believe he will mostly be a career backup from here on in his career.

[DesertSteel]

I would like to see Mariotta ( not sure what the cost would be ) 3rd/ 4th? I just think with his skill set and Canadas supposed style...Run, lots of motion, jet sweeps, misdirection...Mariottas legs, and ability to pull the ball back, roll out and have the run /pass option threat ...would be enticing...

THIS scenario would be a completely different Offense than the one we've seen for quite awhile!
I kinda like him. He'd be at the least a bridge, but could get a rebirth like Tannehill and never give the job up.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I kinda like him. He'd be at the least a bridge, but could get a rebirth like Tannehill and never give the job up.

Agree. He is still under contract with the Raiders for another year and looked good when getting some game time with them this season. I doubt it happens here though.