Big Ben MVP?

[RunNGun]

It's time I eat crow. Admittedly, I was one who thought Ben was pretty much done after his injury last year, but man was I wrong. He's playing extremely good football right now. He's finding all of his WRs and it's very impressive to watch. Imo, when you talk about the MVP, Ben Roethlisberger should be near the top of that list.

[polamalubeast]

He is great but this is Mahomes.

[86WARD]

It doesn’t matter how good Ben is...there are four media darlings that no matter what he does, he will never surpass Mahomes, Wilson, Murray or Rodgers...

[fansince'76]

It doesn’t matter how good Ben is...there are four media darlings that no matter what he does, he will never surpass Mahomes, Wilson, Murray or Rodgers...

:iagree:

This.

[HollywoodSteel]

And Ben just isn’t going to put up the total numbers to beat those guys.

He’d need to blow them all away and go undefeated to even be considered.

Hell, the media doesn’t even want to give him CPOY even though no other comeback player is even CLOSE to where Ben is. People think it should automatically go to Alex Smith just for taking a snap. It’s ridiculous. If CPOY was based on the injury rather than the comeback performance they could hand out the award before the season even started.

[Dissolv]

Major props for coming out like a man and admitting being wrong.

For MVP? Don't care. Superbowl is the goal. Always.

[st33lersguy]

NFL MVP hasn't won the Super Bowl since the 99 season anyway. Just get a Super Bowl win

[DesertSteel]

If the Steelers go 16-0 and Ben puts up career numbers (sans the yards), then Ben will win MVP.

[Fire Goodell]

If the Steelers go 16-0 and Ben puts up career numbers (sans the yards), then Ben will win MVP.

I think so too, so you're tellin me there's a chance?

[DesertSteel]

There’s a chance!

[polamalubeast]

1328130625476431872

Not bad for the fourth best QB in the AFC north.....

[teegre]

A: No

Subtext: And, I don’t really care. Give me another Lombardi.

[polamalubeast]

1297901184045289482

The game GM who drafted Mark Sanchez 5th overall in 2009...Ben has been the best QB in the AFC north this year.

[fansince'76]

1328130625476431872

Actually, he hasn't even locked that up, which, quite frankly, pisses me off:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2020-nfl-season-award-predictions-russell-wilson-edges-patrick-mahomes-for-mvp-a#cpoy

(https://www.nfl.com/news/2020-nfl-season-award-predictions-russell-wilson-edges-patrick-mahomes-for-mvp-a#cpoy)Just go win another Lombardi and stick it to the haters.

[tube517]

1297901184045289482

The game GM who drafted Mark Sanchez 5th overall in 2009...Ben has been the best QB in the AFC north this year.

Tannenbaum

https://media1.tenor.com/images/d7f353eadbaaa00f528b2d209f57257f/tenor.gif?itemid=5401671

[fansince'76]

Hell, the media doesn’t even want to give him CPOY even though no other comeback player is even CLOSE to where Ben is. People think it should automatically go to Alex Smith just for taking a snap. It’s ridiculous. If CPOY was based on the injury rather than the comeback performance they could hand out the award before the season even started.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Gronk gets it, because, you know, Patriots. :jerkit:

[Hawkman]

A: No

Subtext: And, I don’t really care. Give me another Lombardi.

I think Ben would agree with you.

[86WARD]

Ben has a better chance of getting MVP than Comeback Player. Another media darlings, Alex Smith, will wrap that award up.

[Hawkman]

Has there ever been a better QB than Ben, at the pump fake? I love it when he does it so well that he fakes out the cameramen.

[SteelersNorth]

It doesn’t matter how good Ben is...there are four media darlings that no matter what he does, he will never surpass Mahomes, Wilson, Murray or Rodgers...

The worst one of the 4 you mention is Rodgers as he's grossly overrated.
IF and is stress that he was coming off an injury like Ben and leading his team to this current 9-0 record has the same stats etc i can guarantee the only thing you'd be watching on pregame sundays on all stations is the Aaron Rodgers comeback tour showing highlights of all his throws weekly and with each win the following week they tack on the previous weeks highlights.

couple it with the fact that last season was a 'fluke' 8-8 season thanks to the defense im still convinced so far this current team is 1-8 but odds are 0-9 without Ben

But for arguments sake here's the current stats of Ben & Rodgers
Yards:
Rodgers - 2578
Ben - 2267

TD:INT
Rodgers - 26:3
Ben - 22:4

Completion %
Rodgers - 67.8
Ben - 66.8

Rating:
Rodgers - 116.4
Ben - 103

Now i will finish this by saying i couldn't care less if he wins but he should be in the discussion. I mean Ben is the reasons they're 9-0.
I'll take a Super Bowl before any lame MVP award :)

[tube517]

The worst one of the 4 you mention is Rodgers as he's grossly overrated.
IF and is stress that he was coming off an injury like Ben and leading his team to this current 9-0 record has the same stats etc i can guarantee the only thing you'd be watching on pregame sundays on all stations is the Aaron Rodgers comeback tour showing highlights of all his throws weekly and with each win the following week they tack on the previous weeks highlights.

couple it with the fact that last season was a 'fluke' 8-8 season thanks to the defense im still convinced so far this current team is 1-8 but odds are 0-9 without Ben

But for arguments sake here's the current stats of Ben & Rodgers
Yards:
Rodgers - 2578
Ben - 2267

TD:INT
Rodgers - 26:3
Ben - 22:4

Completion %
Rodgers - 67.8
Ben - 66.8

Rating:
Rodgers - 116.4
Ben - 103

Now i will finish this by saying i couldn't care less if he wins but he should be in the discussion. I mean Ben is the reasons they're 9-0.
I'll take a Super Bowl before any lame MVP award :)

It's not all about stats. As 86Ward said, Rodgers is a beloved media darling and can do no wrong in their eyes. Rodgers always gets love and Ben doesn't.

[SteelersNorth]

It's not all about stats. As 86Ward said, Rodgers is a beloved media darling and can do no wrong in their eyes. Rodgers always gets love and Ben doesn't.

im just pointing out that it's close even in the stats department.

Which is also why I used the analogy of IF Rodgers has the injury etc and was doing the EXACT same thing as Ben the over hype which is factual about Rodgers would now be astronomical.

The media is forbidden from speaking ill about Aaron 'Mr. Overrated' Rodgers

[tube517]

im just pointing out that it's close even in the stats department.

Which is also why I used the analogy of IF Rodgers has the injury etc and was doing the EXACT same thing as Ben the over hype which is factual about Rodgers would now be astronomical.

The media is forbidden from speaking ill about Aaron 'Mr. Overrated' Rodgers

I agree with you 110%. The Rodgers media hype is sickening.

[Born2Steel]

How much goes into the commercial deals? When NFL athletes do tv commercials it sort of puts them into that 'face of the NFL' position if for no other reason than their 'face' becomes known to everyone, even the non-football fans. (Or Communists as they are also known) Rodgers, Mahomes, Mayfield, the current players in the 'Heisman House' commercials to a lesser extent. I have to wonder how much this factors into an NFL MVP vote if all else is close or equal.

Why isn't Joe Burrow doing any of these commercials? He'll never win league MVP with that attitude.

[86WARD]

Not sure if anyone saw Russell Wilson yesterday but he played far from MVP caliber. He was playing extremely scared and wanted nothing to do with Jalen Ramsey. He wouldn’t even look towards DK Metcalf yesterday and that’s one of the best WRs in the game right now...

[86WARD]

The worst one of the 4 you mention is Rodgers as he's grossly overrated.
IF and is stress that he was coming off an injury like Ben and leading his team to this current 9-0 record has the same stats etc i can guarantee the only thing you'd be watching on pregame sundays on all stations is the Aaron Rodgers comeback tour showing highlights of all his throws weekly and with each win the following week they tack on the previous weeks highlights.

couple it with the fact that last season was a 'fluke' 8-8 season thanks to the defense im still convinced so far this current team is 1-8 but odds are 0-9 without Ben

But for arguments sake here's the current stats of Ben & Rodgers
Yards:
Rodgers - 2578
Ben - 2267

TD:INT
Rodgers - 26:3
Ben - 22:4

Completion %
Rodgers - 67.8
Ben - 66.8

Rating:
Rodgers - 116.4
Ben - 103

Now i will finish this by saying i couldn't care less if he wins but he should be in the discussion. I mean Ben is the reasons they're 9-0.
I'll take a Super Bowl before any lame MVP award :)

He definitely should be in the discussion but he won’t win it if any of those other 4 are in the same discussion.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Ben is currently having a really good year, as are a number of other QB's in the NFL. Here is where he ranks in some categories:

15th- in Passing Yardage
5th -in Passing TD's
8th -in Passer Rating
tied for 11th- in Completion Percentage

[Fire Goodell]

Say if we do go 19-0 and win another championship, does Ben retire or come back? Given that his hero is Elway, and Elway decided to retire when he was still on the top of his game, I see that to be likely

[DesertSteel]

Elway won two in a row and then retired! I'm OK with that.

[Fire Goodell]

Elway won two in a row and then retired! I'm OK with that.

True, but it'd be #3 for Ben. And how epic would it be to go out after being the only 19-0 team in history?

[polamalubeast]

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Ed Bouchette think that Ben want to tie Bradshaw for the super bowl win,so he don't think that Ben will retire if the steelers won the super bowl.

- - - Updated - - -

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[Mojouw]

Ben is currently having a really good year, as are a number of other QB's in the NFL. Here is where he ranks in some categories:

15th- in Passing Yardage
5th -in Passing TD's
8th -in Passer Rating
tied for 11th- in Completion Percentage

So you're saying that a guy who doesn't lead the league in a single major statistical category for passing doesn't have a sure-fire case for MVP? You don't say...

[86WARD]

True, but it'd be #3 for Ben. And how epic would it be to go out after being the only 19-0 team in history?

I’d suffer through another Mark Malone, Cliff Stoudt, Mike Tomczak type era for that...

[polamalubeast]

I want to see the steelers win the super bowl, but I don't think 19-0 is realistic, but sometimes we have seen impossible things happen in sports.. It would be an even more incredible feeling and it would be legendary. But one game at a time...

[polamalubeast]

1297901184045289482

The game GM who drafted Mark Sanchez 5th overall in 2009...Ben has been the best QB in the AFC north this year.

1328433631203905543

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

So you're saying that a guy who doesn't lead the league in a single major statistical category for passing doesn't have a sure-fire case for MVP? You don't say...

Its just media bias.

[Hawkman]

I’d suffer through another Mark Malone, Cliff Stoudt, Mike Tomczak type era for that...

........maybe Mike and Mark.....but Cliff? I just don’t know.:heh:

[Craic]

It doesn’t matter how good Ben is...there are four media darlings that no matter what he does, he will never surpass Mahomes, Wilson, Murray or Rodgers...

Thing is, Mahomes legitimately deserves it. So far this season, he's thrown for 25 TDs and 1 INT, 2687 yards, and has a passer rtg of 115.9 for the year.

Honestly, I have no problem with Rodgers either. He's thrown for 26 TDs, 3 INts, 2578 yards, and a 116.4 percent pass rating.

By comparison, Ben's thrown for 22 TDs, 4 INTs, 2267 yards, and a 103 pass rating.

In short, he's just not lighting it up like Mahomes or Rodgers, and in today's NFL. If a QB wants to win the MVP award, you have to light it up. On the other hand, one argument that may be made in Ben's favor is that with virtually the same team last year, we were 8-8 without him. But, that's also true of most all QBs, so I don't know.

[polamalubeast]

It could change if Ben has some big games in the next few weeks and the steelers remain unbeaten, but Mahomes is going to be very hard to catch up.

[DesertSteel]

Ben is currently having a really good year, as are a number of other QB's in the NFL. Here is where he ranks in some categories:

15th- in Passing Yardage
5th -in Passing TD's
8th -in Passer Rating
tied for 11th- in Completion Percentage
1st -Winning Percentage
Fixed it for you.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Fixed it for you.

OK, but I guess if that is the barometer on being an MVP, then Trent Dilfer deserved an MVP because the 2001 Ravens won the Super Bowl.

We know that isnt the reality and that there are 52 other guys on the team other than the starting QB. Again, Ben having a good year, I dont know if its even his best year, but cant complain about the record. I just think there are a few guys ahead of him in the MVP race and deservedly so.

[fansince'76]

Its just media bias.

Well, a lot of it is. The fact that he's still in a dead heat with Alex Smith for CPOY at this point kinda confirms that.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Well, a lot of it is. The fact that he's still in a dead heat with Alex Smith for CPOY at this point kinda confirms that.

OK, I was kind of being sarcastic with that comment. I guess I should have used an emoji. I dont think Ben should be a leading candidate for MVP at this point. Still lots of season left, so we can hope, but objectively I dont think its yet MVP worthy.

I havent seen the odds on Comeback player, but considering some questioned if he would have the arm strength or range of motion after the surgery and Tannenbaum went full idiot with his prediction, I would think Ben should be pretty much in the clubhouse waiting for that award already. Alex Smith can walk and run, but I caught the last 5 minutes of the Detroit game this Sunday and Smith has Charlie Batch-weak arm syndrome and should retire.

[fansince'76]

OK, I was kind of being sarcastic with that comment. I guess I should have used an emoji. I dont think Ben should be a leading candidate for MVP at this point. Still lots of season left, so we can hope, but objectively I dont think its yet MVP worthy.

I havent seen the odds on Comeback player, but considering some questioned if he would have the arm strength or range of motion after the surgery and Tannenbaum went full idiot with his prediction, I would think Ben should be pretty much in the clubhouse waiting for that award already. Alex Smith can walk and run, but I caught the last 5 minutes of the Detroit game this Sunday and Smith has Charlie Batch-weak arm syndrome and should retire.

Sorry, I missed the sarcasm. :drink:

And I think the MVP is Mahomes' to lose at this point.

[DesertSteel]

OK, but I guess if that is the barometer on being an MVP, then Trent Dilfer deserved an MVP because the 2001 Ravens won the Super Bowl.

We know that isnt the reality and that there are 52 other guys on the team other than the starting QB. Again, Ben having a good year, I dont know if its even his best year, but cant complain about the record. I just think there are a few guys ahead of him in the MVP race and deservedly so.
A. It’s a regular season award.
B. There’s something very special about leading a team that goes 16-0.
C. If Ben does that and throws 39 TDs and only 7 Ints (his projection), then I think he had a strong chance.
D. I can’t believe you compared Ben to Dilfer.
E. I don’t care if he wins it or not, but it’s the thread topic.

[teegre]

Here’s a thought:

Ben has to overcome the horrific playcalling of Randy Fichtner.

Really. If Ben was allowed to call his own plays for the entire game (not just when we “need” him to it in the fourth quarter), Ben might have 39 TDs already. It’s like Ben is playing against opposing defenses AND against his own offensive coordinator.

[polamalubeast]

The steelers had 10 offensive TD in the last 9 games last year...This year in the first 9 games,the steelers have 31 offensive TD,so the QB is not only one player as the other in a team,he is by far the most important player of the team.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

A. It’s a regular season award.
B. There’s something very special about leading a team that goes 16-0.
C. If Ben does that and throws 39 TDs and only 7 Ints (his projection), then I think he had a strong chance.
D. I can’t believe you compared Ben to Dilfer.
E. I don’t care if he wins it or not, but it’s the thread topic.

Team wins are not a QB statistic. They are a team statistic.

If Minkah Fitzpatrick doesnt make 2 game ending pass breakups, the Steelers lose games vs Baltimore and Dallas. That is a team victory. Othewise the Steelers are 7-2 and in 2nd place.

Anytime somebody brings up QB record as a team stat or compares " Super Bowl Winning QB's"....Trent Dilfer is the obvious choice to point out that team victory is not a QB stat.

[Mojouw]

Ben Roethlisberger has an excellent case for CPOY. He has no case, currently, for MVP.

Lead the league in at least a single individual stat category first.

No wonder you all are usually so angry. Your expectations are more outsized than a fat kid looking at birthday cake.

[DesertSteel]

Team wins are not a QB statistic. They are a team statistic.

I'd disagree. Baseball is a team sport but the pitcher has a W/L record. I think the same holds true for a QB. Just look up any QB on pro-football-reference.com and you'll find their W/L record as the first stat. This is a QB league.

[polamalubeast]

Team wins are not a QB statistic. They are a team statistic.

If Minkah Fitzpatrick doesnt make 2 game ending pass breakups, the Steelers lose games vs Baltimore and Dallas. That is a team victory. Othewise the Steelers are 7-2 and in 2nd place.

Anytime somebody brings up QB record as a team stat or compares " Super Bowl Winning QB's"....Trent Dilfer is the obvious choice to point out that team victory is not a QB stat.

Yes the W-L record is a QB stats...

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/qb-records.html

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I'd disagree. Baseball is a team sport but the pitcher has a W/L record. I think the same holds true for a QB. Just look up any QB on pro-football-reference.com and you'll find their W/L record as the first stat. This is a QB league.

We will agree to disagree. I really dont think comparing Baseball to Football is a relevant comparison, as they are sports with entirely different game flow and demands. I will submit as evidence, two of Ben's best seasons and the TEAM outcome in those seasons :

-2014 Steelers. Ben has 4952 Passing Yards, 32TD and 9 INT. Steelers finish 11-5 and lost in the Wildcard round.

-2018 Steelers. Ben has 5129 Passing Yards, 34TD and 14 INT. Steelers finish 9-6-1 and do not qualify for playoffs.

Those are 2 really great seasons of 5,000 yds passing and a TD:INT ratio in the neighborhood of 3 to 1. but the team didn't succeed because the collective other 52 players on the roster didn't perform to those levels or the coaches didn't make decisions to aid the Steelers in better results.

[polamalubeast]

We will agree to disagree. I really dont think comparing Baseball to Football is a relevant comparison, as they are sports with entirely different game flow and demands. I will submit as evidence, two of Ben's best seasons and the TEAM outcome in those seasons :

-2014 Steelers. Ben has 4952 Passing Yards, 32TD and 9 INT. Steelers finish 11-5 and lost in the Wildcard round.

-2018 Steelers. Ben has 5129 Passing Yards, 34TD and 14 INT. Steelers finish 9-6-1 and do not qualify for playoffs.

Those are 2 really great seasons of 5,000 yds passing and a TD:INT ratio in the neighborhood of 3 to 1. but the team didn't succeed because the collective other 52 players on the roster didn't perform to those levels or the coaches didn't make decisions to aid the Steelers in better results.

Of course, the context is very important .... As in 2014,11-5 was very good considering that steelers defense were probably their worst since 1988 .... 2018 was probably the worst season of Ben since at least 2012.He was not bad,but he had almost 700 pass attempts and it was the reason why he had over 5000 yards.

You can't judge a player just by raw numbers or just by one numbers ... But when after 17 seasons a QB still has a winning percentage of over 68%, you need to be great, especially after 225 starts.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Of course, the context is very important .... As in 2014,11-5 was very good considering that steelers defense were probably their worst since 1988 .... 2018 was probably the worst season of Ben since at least 2012.He was not bad,but he had almost 700 pass attempts and it was the reason why he had over 5000 yards.

You can't judge a player just by raw numbers or just by one numbers ... But when after 17 seasons a QB still has a winning percentage of over 68%, you need to be great, especially after 225 starts.

So in 2014 Ben was only 11-5 and got bounced in the wildcard round in the playoffs is because the defense was the worst they had been in decades? But Ben is 9-0 in 2020 because he is an MVP candidate?

This is the point I am making. You cant objectively defend a record by saying its not the QB's fault, but then attribute a perfect season to being the QB's credit. Its a team game and team wins and losses.

As for 2018, I dont know how many times as a fan I have said "the QB didnt lose that game today". Whether its Ben, Marino, Esiason, Bubby Brister, Steve McNair, etc. Likewise, I have many times said to a kid I coached, who just balled out in a loss..."hey man, that wasnt on you...great game".

[polamalubeast]

So in 2014 Ben was only 11-5 and got bounced in the wildcard round in the playoffs is because the defense was the worst they had been in decades? But Ben is 9-0 in 2020 because he is an MVP candidate?

This is the point I am making. You cant objectively defend a record by saying its not the QB's fault, but then attribute a perfect season to being the QB's credit. Its a team game and team wins and losses.

As for 2018, I dont know how many times as a fan I have said "the QB didnt lose that game today". Whether its Ben, Marino, Esiason, Bubby Brister, Steve McNair, etc. Likewise, I have many times said to a kid I coached, who just balled out in a loss..."hey man, that wasnt on you...great game".


I understand your point, but fair or not,I have already seen some QB win the MVP just because their team had a great win-loss record like Peyton Manning in 2009....

But BTW, I have Mahomes for the MVP right now with Rodgers, Wilson and maybe Murray behind Mahomes ... Ben is a possibility after that, but it would be a miracle if Ben wins the MVP.For 2014 he had better chance but he had a slow start in his first 6 games.

[polamalubeast]

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[cubanstogie]

1328456740690558977
One of the few times I agree with him.

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One of the few times I agree with him.
I don’t know about Brady fourth though. Top three I agree with.

[86WARD]

You can get the idea of comeback player of the year for Ben...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201117/a1d94f398fa1c569d6fa39ec09116eea.jpg

[SteelMember]

I'd rather Ben win SuperBowl MVP... :wink02:

[SteelersNorth]

So in 2014 Ben was only 11-5 and got bounced in the wildcard round in the playoffs is because the defense was the worst they had been in decades? But Ben is 9-0 in 2020 because he is an MVP candidate?

This is the point I am making. You cant objectively defend a record by saying its not the QB's fault, but then attribute a perfect season to being the QB's credit. Its a team game and team wins and losses.

As for 2018, I dont know how many times as a fan I have said "the QB didnt lose that game today". Whether its Ben, Marino, Esiason, Bubby Brister, Steve McNair, etc. Likewise, I have many times said to a kid I coached, who just balled out in a loss..."hey man, that wasnt on you...great game".

Except if the perfect record was done by Aaron 'Mr Overrated' Rodgers then it would be all Rodgers like it always is because I've heard he doesn't need help.
It's hilarious really how the media spins things for certain players.

Ben at minimum should be in the discussion.
Honestly people need to think what's this teams record without Ben is and at BEST i have them 2-7 but really QB play would say a lot and I also wouldn't be surprised if they were 0-9.

[Mojouw]

This is kinda like when Peyton Manning was running the Colts. Without him, the Colts would've been not good. Even their defense was built to play against teams that were in "pass all the time to keep up with Manning" mode. By the logic laid out here, Manning should've been MVP every single season from 1999 to 2010 instead of the "just" 4 times he won it:).

By just about every measure, except W-L, 2020 Ben R is about #10-15 in the QB rankings. Could you imagine what the response would be here if a non-Steelers QB with those stats got talked about as MVP? Remember the response most had to Lamar Jackson's MVP last season?

[DesertSteel]

Ben is tied for 4th in TD passes. Lol.

[SteelersNorth]

This is kinda like when Peyton Manning was running the Colts. Without him, the Colts would've been not good. Even their defense was built to play against teams that were in "pass all the time to keep up with Manning" mode. By the logic laid out here, Manning should've been MVP every single season from 1999 to 2010 instead of the "just" 4 times he won it:).

By just about every measure, except W-L, 2020 Ben R is about #10-15 in the QB rankings. Could you imagine what the response would be here if a non-Steelers QB with those stats got talked about as MVP? Remember the response most had to Lamar Jackson's MVP last season?

I used Rodgers for a specific reason because he is grossly overrated.
But if he was in the same situation as Ben coming of said injury to his arm etc stats and all the NFL media would be all over him like white on rice. You'd never hear the end of it.
But because its Ben it gets pushed aside?
He's the sole reason they're 9-0.
I don't care how good that defense is put the other 2 stiffs in and at BEST they're 2-7 but I'm also convinced they could be 0-9 because they both suck that bad and Rudolph more so than Hodges.

As for CPOY he wont even win that it's that insane and yet he should have no business not winning it as it stands.

Like i said previously he should be in consideration as I really don't care if he wins it. I will always take a Super Bowl win long before any lame MVP award.

[Mojouw]

I used Rodgers for a specific reason because he is grossly overrated.
But if he was in the same situation as Ben coming of said injury to his arm etc stats and all the NFL media would be all over him like white on rice. You'd never hear the end of it.
But because its Ben it gets pushed aside?
He's the sole reason they're 9-0.
I don't care how good that defense is put the other 2 stiffs in and at BEST they're 2-7 but I'm also convinced they could be 0-9 because they both suck that bad and Rudolph more so than Hodges.

As for CPOY he wont even win that it's that insane and yet he should have no business not winning it as it stands.

Like i said previously he should be in consideration as I really don't care if he wins it. I will always take a Super Bowl win long before any lame MVP award.

Maybe? Who knows? Who cares?

Unless he goes on an 7 game tear, 2020 Ben R has laughable MVP stats. Play around here: https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-stats/passing?sort=passpct

About #12 or so if you take out injured guys or their replacements in comp %
About #15 in yards.
I didn't even bother to count how far down the list in YPA he was (it is bottom 1/3).
#9 in Passer Rating.
#5 in TD passes (although he has a game in hand on #4 - Brady). But Ben is 7 behind the leader.

What in that says...MVP? He isn't leading the league in any individual stat and isn't even within shouting distance of the leaders in most categories.

[86WARD]

Maybe? Who knows? Who cares?

Unless he goes on an 7 game tear, 2020 Ben R has laughable MVP stats. Play around here: https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-stats/passing?sort=passpct

About #12 or so if you take out injured guys or their replacements in comp %
About #15 in yards.
I didn't even bother to count how far down the list in YPA he was (it is bottom 1/3).
#9 in Passer Rating.
#5 in TD passes (although he has a game in hand on #4 - Brady). But Ben is 7 behind the leader.

What in that says...MVP? He isn't leading the league in any individual stat and isn't even within shouting distance of the leaders in most categories.

It is Most Valuable PLAYER. Not Most Stats by a Player. Unfortunately, it does go by Most Stats...so that eliminates Ben at the moment.

However, 8-8 team without a guy. 9-0 team with a guy. I don’t know, that seems like he’s pretty valuable...no?

[polamalubeast]

The W-L record is also very important to win the MVP....Outside of Peterson in 2012,every players who won the MVP in the last 10 years,their team were in the top 2 seed in their conference.And I think that Mahomes deserve to have the MVP right now.

[DesertSteel]

If a first ballot hall of famer having a career year and going 16-0 (big if) can’t sniff MVP consideration then he shouldn’t be a first ballot HOF.

Mojouw, with you everything is logic. But the MVP is not awarded by logic, but optics. If he goes 39/7 and 16-0 he’ll be in consideration.

[Mojouw]

It is Most Valuable PLAYER. Not Most Stats by a Player. Unfortunately, it does go by Most Stats...so that eliminates Ben at the moment.

However, 8-8 team without a guy. 9-0 team with a guy. I don’t know, that seems like he’s pretty valuable...no?


If a first ballot hall of famer having a career year and going 16-0 (big if) can’t sniff MVP consideration then he shouldn’t be a first ballot HOF.

Mojouw, with you everything is logic. But the MVP is not awarded by logic, but optics. If he goes 39/7 and 16-0 he’ll be in consideration.

Fine. Go with optics. Find a "signature" play from Ben's MVP season? Find a throw that makes you sit up and say "WOW! How did he do that?!!" I can't think of one.

Playing competent NFL QB and being backed up by utter incompetence isn't the basis for an NFL MVP campaign.

Personally, I really couldn't care less. All these awards are nonsense to me. But to have an entire thread that amounts to how Ben R is gonna get jobbed out of the MVP is just a bit of an overzealous reaction.

There are 7 more games. Who knows what might happen?

[DesertSteel]

Well to start with I don't think they're going 16-0 so it's all hypothetical. Nor do I care if he wins it; I'd rather see a Super Bowl win.

[SteelersNorth]

Fine. Go with optics. Find a "signature" play from Ben's MVP season? Find a throw that makes you sit up and say "WOW! How did he do that?!!" I can't think of one.

Playing competent NFL QB and being backed up by utter incompetence isn't the basis for an NFL MVP campaign.

Personally, I really couldn't care less. All these awards are nonsense to me. But to have an entire thread that amounts to how Ben R is gonna get jobbed out of the MVP is just a bit of an overzealous reaction.

There are 7 more games. Who knows what might happen?


I openly said I didn’t care but fact is based on what the team was and would be without Ben he ‘should’ be in the discussion regardless of stats.

Again my argument is IF this were Rodgers doing what Ben is doing you wouldn’t nor would the national media be arguing it. It would already be a done deal for CPOY AND MVP.

[Mojouw]

I openly said I didn’t care but fact is based on what the team was and would be without Ben he ‘should’ be in the discussion regardless of stats.

Again my argument is IF this were Rodgers doing what Ben is doing you wouldn’t nor would the national media be arguing it. It would already be a done deal for CPOY AND MVP.

Maybe. The way some of the media was shoveling dirt on Rodgers grave the past 2 years, I'm not sure I agree.

But I think the Ben/Non Ben argument is valid but totally overrated since most of this board has Mason Rudolph PTSD. Sure, Ben is a MASSIVE upgrade from Rudolph-Hodges. But how big of an upgrade is he from Kirk Cousins, Garappalo, Minshew, or some other "average" QB.

[Born2Steel]

IF.....If any team goes undefeated in the regular season, not saying the Steelers will or that any team will ever again, just that IF any team was to go undefeated for the regular season and their QB was not in the MVP conversation, I would find that very odd. At 9-0 Ben is not in this conversation but there are murmurs and rumors of murmurs starting about should he be in the conversation. I think he SHOULD be in the conversation at this point but not really concerned one way or the other that he is not. Just keep winning games, the rest will take care of itself.

[SteelersNorth]

Maybe. The way some of the media was shoveling dirt on Rodgers grave the past 2 years, I'm not sure I agree.

But I think the Ben/Non Ben argument is valid but totally overrated since most of this board has Mason Rudolph PTSD. Sure, Ben is a MASSIVE upgrade from Rudolph-Hodges. But how big of an upgrade is he from Kirk Cousins, Garappalo, Minshew, or some other "average" QB.


I don’t know what you smoke or what you’ve watched but saying those names in the same sentence as comparison to Ben is insanity and sad to even consider yourself a ‘fan’. And truth be told ‘most’ stuff you say is knowledgeable but I’m a blunt person and this is just fucking stupidity.

I mean IF Ben were average the overall aspect of the ‘team’ would be average but average they are not.

the only thing the media says about Rodgers is how he doesn’t have ‘weapons’ or a ‘defense’ or this or that is all bullshit to protect him and his utter failures when games count.
if you haven’t been paying attention the media already told you the excuse for the packers failure this year it’s that they didn’t trade for a receiver at the deadline.
but if Rodgers weren’t such a wank he’d develop his receivers kinda like how Ben has since 2010 once Holmes was gone as he hasn’t had a top rd pick since then.

[fansince'76]

Sure, Ben is a MASSIVE upgrade from Rudolph-Hodges. But how big of an upgrade is he from Kirk Cousins, Garappalo, Minshew, or some other "average" QB.

Simple - the Steelers don't come back from a double-digit halftime deficit and their run D getting ripped a new one (while their own running game was stuck in neutral) in Baltimore with any of those other QBs.

[SteelersNorth]

Simple - the Steelers don't come back from a double-digit halftime deficit and their run D getting ripped a new one (while their own running game was stuck in neutral) in Baltimore with any of those other QBs.

this current team sans Ben is at best 2-7 but I’m also convinced they could be 0-9

[Mojouw]

I don’t know what you smoke or what you’ve watched but saying those names in the same sentence as comparison to Ben is insanity and sad to even consider yourself a ‘fan’. And truth be told ‘most’ stuff you say is knowledgeable but I’m a blunt person and this is just fucking stupidity.

I mean IF Ben were average the overall aspect of the ‘team’ would be average but average they are not.

the only thing the media says about Rodgers is how he doesn’t have ‘weapons’ or a ‘defense’ or this or that is all bullshit to protect him and his utter failures when games count.
if you haven’t been paying attention the media already told you the excuse for the packers failure this year it’s that they didn’t trade for a receiver at the deadline.
but if Rodgers weren’t such a wank he’d develop his receivers kinda like how Ben has since 2010 once Holmes was gone as he hasn’t had a top rd pick since then.

Might want to dial it back there. I've never managed to mention Rodgers, but you work it into every post. Have fun with that.

If you were to swap Ben out for a "average" or "replacement" level QB (I listed several names as examples) what would the Steelers record be? Perhaps not 9-0 but what about 6-3? Is three games an MVP?

The concept of "WAR" isn't really a bizarre one for sports comparisons thanks to baseball. Call "replacement level" something in the Kirk Cousins neighborhood. So how many games above that does Ben get you?

I figure through 9, they would have lost at least 2 maybe 3. In contrast, the Seahawks may not have won a single game. That could give Wilson a WAR of 6 to Ben's 3. So even though they have a worse record, is Wilson just as valuable? More so?

I am not saying this is a perfect system or even the best one for evaluation...but it is where my linking of Ben and "average" came from. If you take a few deep breaths, I think you'll find it isn't ridiculous to say those words in the same sentence.

[fansince'76]

this current team sans Ben is at best 2-7 but I’m also convinced they could be 0-9

I give the D a little more credit than that. With a truly "average" QB, I think they're 5-4 right now and sitting in 3rd place in the AFC North.

[SteelersNorth]

Might want to dial it back there. I've never managed to mention Rodgers, but you work it into every post. Have fun with that.

If you were to swap Ben out for a "average" or "replacement" level QB (I listed several names as examples) what would the Steelers record be? Perhaps not 9-0 but what about 6-3? Is three games an MVP?

The concept of "WAR" isn't really a bizarre one for sports comparisons thanks to baseball. Call "replacement level" something in the Kirk Cousins neighborhood. So how many games above that does Ben get you?

I figure through 9, they would have lost at least 2 maybe 3. In contrast, the Seahawks may not have won a single game. That could give Wilson a WAR of 6 to Ben's 3. So even though they have a worse record, is Wilson just as valuable? More so?

I am not saying this is a perfect system or even the best one for evaluation...but it is where my linking of Ben and "average" came from. If you take a few deep breaths, I think you'll find it isn't ridiculous to say those words in the same sentence.

i use Rodgers because of the mere fact he can do no wrong as you’re also wrong in that regard but agreed move on.

again Wilson makes the Seahawks better no question but that’s like any QB in the NFL they ALL need help on defense some get by with playing ‘hot’ at the right time and some liked to ‘cheat’ to win.

they as in the Steelers flukes 8 wins.
when Ben was done I personally thought you’re lucky to win 2-3 games at this point but that defense in my view played so far over their heads they almost single handedly won games its was insane to watch.

but look at how games have gone this year?
Game 1 the giants were up 10-3 and 10-9 near the end of the first half
that’s a loss sans Ben

Game 2 they were down 17-14 at the end of the 3rd quarter
another loss

Game 3 they were down 14-3 early 2nd quarter and 21-17 at the half so that games a write off without Ben

Game 4 they led the entire way but being 38-29 I’m not convinced the other 2 muster that many points let alone more than a fluke FG

game 5 it’s the browns so they’d win 10-7 I’m being generous

but you get the picture even your ‘average’ picks I don’t think win those other 4 games let alone some of the recent ones

Ben is the sole difference regardless of what his overall stats are.

[SteelersNorth]

I give the D a little more credit than that. With a truly "average" QB, I think they're 5-4 right now and sitting in 3rd place in the AFC North.

im basing it on who they have on the roster and neither are what you would call average

[polamalubeast]

I give the D a little more credit than that. With a truly "average" QB, I think they're 5-4 right now and sitting in 3rd place in the AFC North.

I agree with you for that

This is about the winning percentage that Tomlin has in his career without Ben(17-14)...Competitive and the steelers can win some games without Ben, even if their offense would be brutal(like 2010,2015 and 2019), but far from being a true contender.

[ALLD]

He is making the fewest mistakes of his career. That does not make him an MVP in comparison to a few others who have bigger stats. An MVP is nice, but a SB win is much better and a SB MVP is the tops.

[SteelersNorth]

He is making the fewest mistakes of his career. That does not make him an MVP in comparison to a few others who have bigger stats. An MVP is nice, but a SB win is much better and a SB MVP is the tops.

agreed!
be in the discussion just for the mere fact of what he’s meant to the team.
Don’t care if he wins as I’ve seen on a few occasions it’s based on popularity.

the ultimate prize and goal is the Lombardi as this current era that’s what seems to separate the top tier QBs and would also put Ben in that rare ‘elite’ category

[pczach]

Anyone who pays attention here knows that I'm a fan of Big Ben. I defend him all the time, and try to explain why I believe he has been, and still is, a much better player than he gets credit for from almost everyone....including people right here at this message board.

I don't believe Ben is a frontrunner for the MVP award from what he has done to this point of the season.

I also believe that if Ben heats up even more, as it appears he might be doing right now, he will clearly be an MVP candidate by the end of the year. If he gets hot and throws another 19-23 touchdowns in the last 7 games while still limiting INT's, why wouldn't he be near the top of the MVP consideration? If the team goes 14-2 or better, and he goes something like 42 TD and 7 INT's......How in the hell could he not be considered?

All I'm saying is NO, he probably hasn't done enough at this time to win the prize, but there is still plenty of time for him to add to all his stats, while possibly having the most important stat of all.....the best won/loss record in the NFL. To just dismiss that he has a chance is simply silly.

I'm going to let the rest of the season play out before I make a final determination about the subject. The most important thing is for the team to keep winning. If the team succeeds, Ben is going to get a ton of credit from anyone paying attention.

As for Ben not making wow throws, that's just some people not really knowing what's going on sometimes. Remember when Peyton Manning was with Denver getting rave reviews with managing the offense while barely being able to get out of his own way? Ben is doing much the same thing at times, except he is also putting up great numbers. He is literally creating opportunities with his command of the offense and manipulating the defenses at the line of scrimmage AND after the snap of the ball. The TD toss he made against the Bengals where he moves up in the pocket away from the rush, and throws an accurate ball with a defender hanging on him is the type of stuff that almost NO OTHER QUARTERBACKS ARE ABLE TO DO. It is taken for granted here at times, because they apparently fall in love with a bunch of young QBs that can't read defenses and have to create things with their legs and don't know the difference when they are watching it.

Ben has been doing it lately with next to zero running game. What was Kirk Cousins doing before Dalvin Cook was tearing it up? Nothing.......Literally.....Nothing.

Hell, even Mahomes has a very good running game. It makes thigs much, much easier, as does play action passing off of that run game because the quarterback doesn't have to read the defense the same way in play action. It dumbs down what the QB is expected to execute. Again, many here don't understand all that, but it is all part of the game and it is a fact that real pros at the position with the experience and knowledge control the game in ways that less experienced QB's do not.

I commented about Lamar Jackson last year. I told everyone here that NFL teams were gathering tape on him and that they were going to take away some of the things he did to defenses last year and force him to read defenses and throw the ball more. He won NFL MVP, but a large part of that was the scheme they were running couldn't be figured out, particularly with Jackson's elite physical talent. Once they figured out how to limit much of what he could do with his legs, I said that he may take a step or two back. You see that happening this year. Again, it's just an understanding of how this stuff works.

[Steeler-in-west]

We all saw what the Steelers were like without Ben last year. Stats don’t tell the whole story, it’s also about moving the chains when it’s needed, not making mistakes, protecting the ball, getting the pass to the right guy (not forcing the ball into double coverage to AB like he used to). If the Steelers keep going like this I think Ben should be in the running for mvp. Although like others have said if he’s not it doesn’t matter, the Lombardi should be the ultimate goal.

[Craic]

I'd disagree. Baseball is a team sport but the pitcher has a W/L record. I think the same holds true for a QB. Just look up any QB on pro-football-reference.com and you'll find their W/L record as the first stat. This is a QB league.
But in baseball (NL) especially, a pitcher can literally make every out AND score a run. Technically only he and a catcher need to take the field to make that happen, which is very different than an NFL qb depending on a o line an WRs, not to mention an entire defense to make a stop.

[DesertSteel]

But in baseball (NL) especially, a pitcher can literally make every out AND score a run. Technically only he and a catcher need to take the field to make that happen, which is very different than an NFL qb depending on a o line an WRs, not to mention an entire defense to make a stop.
And how many times has that happened in baseball history?

[Mojouw]

Here is an interesting stat I read this morning: "Despite their 9-0 record, the Steelers rank 31st, ahead of only the Jets, in percentage of pass attempts gaining more than 15 yards. Their rate of these explosive pass gains is 12.1 percent, which would be a low for them in any season with Roethlisberger as their primary starter."

As has been said, there are still plenty of games to play. If the Steelers go 16-0...there will be a push to give the award to Ben. But to strengthen his case, every game from here on out has to look like the Bengals game on offense. All Ben. All the time. 250-325 yards per game. 2-4 TDs per game. No INTs. Conner and the run game an almost total afterthought. That is the recipe for Ben to compile an overwhelming case.

You all can like it or not. I don't care. But most are talking about how the MVP voting is a flawed process and then trying to mount a case for a flawed candidate. The same candidate that didn't get a single vote when he led the league in passing. The contrast between the team with Ben and without Ben isn't going to move the needle. Most NFL teams are in that situation. At least the teams in the top half of the league.

The Steelers need to win 14+ games and Ben needs to pile up stats at a Mahomes or Wilson rate. That's what it will take. I suspect that going 16-0 but it being viewed as taking place on the back of the defense and a VARIED offense, will shift the votes to another candidate who is seen as their teams ENTIRE reason for success.

Honestly, other then the Bengals game, I haven't thought Ben's play was really all that great this season. He has no signature throw(s). He's looked rusty and off target all year. His biggest asset at this point is enough experience and savvy to run the 4 WR 1TE empty set. That's the Steelers offense right now. Is that something only Ben can do? Or could a reasonable accurate QB who can make quick decisions based on pre-snap reads also execute that offense? If the answer is "Yes" (and for me it is), then while Ben is playing well, he isn't playing exceptionally.

But, once again, I've been told I'm out to lunch for looking at the situation based on logic and precedence.

[DesertSteel]

For those who think it's all about stats, in 2017 Brady won MVP with 32 TDs and 8 Ints. He passed for 4577 yards on 66.3% comp and a 102.8 rating.

Ben's projections: 39 TDs and 7 Ints. He's on pace for 4030 yards passing with 66.8% comp and a 103.0 rating.

So, he beats out Brady in 4 out of 5 categories and I can easily see Ben catching up in the yards passing over the last 7 games.

I don't think Ben will win it but I also don't think those who believe he'll be in contention are morons.

[Mojouw]

For those who think it's all about stats, in 2017 Brady won MVP with 32 TDs and 8 Ints. He passed for 4577 yards on 66.3% comp and a 102.8 rating.

Ben's projections: 39 TDs and 7 Ints. He's on pace for 4030 yards passing with 66.8% comp and a 103.0 rating.

So, he beats out Brady in 4 out of 5 categories and I can easily see Ben catching up in the yards passing over the last 7 games.

I don't think Ben will win it but I also don't think those who believe he'll be in contention are morons.

In 2017, Brady:

Led the league in passing yards.
Was 4th in completion percentage.
Was 5th in yards per attempt.
Was 3rd in TDs (only 2 behind the league leader).
Was 3rd in QB rating.

The numbers in context of the 2017 NFL year, paint a different picture than those same statistics would paint in the 2020 NFL year.

Ben is 600 yards off the league lead. 6 TDs off the lead. 12 points off the rate lead. 7% points off the completion lead. 2 full yards per attempt off the pace.

Ben is my favorite NFL QB - has been his entire career. I've always thought he was consistently under-rated by fans, pundits, and NFL "experts" basically every season. I think he has done more than he has been credited for his entire career. If he leads the 2020 Steelers to 12 or more wins, it will be another impressive achievement in a HOF resume. If they go undefeated, he locks in his legacy for all time. If he leads the Steelers to a SB victory, his legacy goes up into the top tiers of "all time" guys.

But I just don't see how that equates with an MVP if he continues to have middle of the road stats compared to the rest of the league.

[DesertSteel]

In 2017, Brady:

Led the league in passing yards.
Was 4th in completion percentage.
Was 5th in yards per attempt.
Was 3rd in TDs (only 2 behind the league leader).
Was 3rd in QB rating.

The numbers in context of the 2017 NFL year, paint a different picture than those same statistics would paint in the 2020 NFL year.

Ben is 600 yards off the league lead. 6 TDs off the lead. 12 points off the rate lead. 7% points off the completion lead. 2 full yards per attempt off the pace.

Ben is my favorite NFL QB - has been his entire career. I've always thought he was consistently under-rated by fans, pundits, and NFL "experts" basically every season. I think he has done more than he has been credited for his entire career. If he leads the 2020 Steelers to 12 or more wins, it will be another impressive achievement in a HOF resume. If they go undefeated, he locks in his legacy for all time. If he leads the Steelers to a SB victory, his legacy goes up into the top tiers of "all time" guys.

But I just don't see how that equates with an MVP if he continues to have middle of the road stats compared to the rest of the league.
And by the time the season is over I can see Ben being in the top 5 in every major statistical category. The season is barely half over and he's just now building rapport with 2 of his top 3 receivers.

[Mojouw]

And by the time the season is over I can see Ben being in the top 5 in every major statistical category. The season is barely half over and he's just now building rapport with 2 of his top 3 receivers.

If that happens, the argument shifts and his MVP case becomes highly realistic. Which is what I have said since the beginning. If he is top 4 or better in major passing stats and the Steelers grab the #1 seed in the AFC and/or go undefeated...then his case is strong. If his stats stay middle of the pack, I do not think that an amazing team record will be enough for him to leapfrog those ahead of him on the stat board.

[DesertSteel]

If that happens, the argument shifts and his MVP case becomes highly realistic. Which is what I have said since the beginning. If he is top 4 or better in major passing stats and the Steelers grab the #1 seed in the AFC and/or go undefeated...then his case is strong. If his stats stay middle of the pack, I do not think that an amazing team record will be enough for him to leapfrog those ahead of him on the stat board.
Honestly, I think there's a greater chance of Ben stockpiling stats over the next 7 games than there is of the team going 7-0. But hey... who knows... maybe they will both happen.

[SteelersNorth]

In 2017, Brady:

Led the league in passing yards.
Was 4th in completion percentage.
Was 5th in yards per attempt.
Was 3rd in TDs (only 2 behind the league leader).
Was 3rd in QB rating.

The numbers in context of the 2017 NFL year, paint a different picture than those same statistics would paint in the 2020 NFL year.

Ben is 600 yards off the league lead. 6 TDs off the lead. 12 points off the rate lead. 7% points off the completion lead. 2 full yards per attempt off the pace.

Ben is my favorite NFL QB - has been his entire career. I've always thought he was consistently under-rated by fans, pundits, and NFL "experts" basically every season. I think he has done more than he has been credited for his entire career. If he leads the 2020 Steelers to 12 or more wins, it will be another impressive achievement in a HOF resume. If they go undefeated, he locks in his legacy for all time. If he leads the Steelers to a SB victory, his legacy goes up into the top tiers of "all time" guys.

But I just don't see how that equates with an MVP if he continues to have middle of the road stats compared to the rest of the league.

fair points but again Ben is the sole difference in this team being 9-0
I don't want to do it but its because the media does it...IF and i stress that ARod was doing the EXACT same thing as Ben is he's the universal LOCK.
And then if anyone 'tried' to debate it they'd say but but but he's got this team 9-0 after last years atrocity blah blah blah and well its Aaron Rodgers.
and then the circle jerk continues.

Now I'm not saying Ben is MVP never said that nor will I BUT he should be in the discussion.
It was Wilsons to lose and now i'm not sure where he stands really
Mahomes and then it's Kyler/Ben in my book but Mahomes is going to be tough to catch

[HollywoodSteel]

fair points but again Ben is the sole difference in this team being 9-0
I don't want to do it but its because the media does it...IF and i stress that ARod was doing the EXACT same thing as Ben is he's the universal LOCK.
And then if anyone 'tried' to debate it they'd say but but but he's got this team 9-0 after last years atrocity blah blah blah and well its Aaron Rodgers.
and then the circle jerk continues.

Now I'm not saying Ben is MVP never said that nor will I BUT he should be in the discussion.


It was Wilsons to lose and now i'm not sure where he stands really
Mahomes and then it's Kyler/Ben in my book but Mahomes is going to be tough to catch

I think the ONLY way for Ben to win MVP without being at the very top of the stat board (which he won't be. We just won't get the type of passing yards that Mahomes, Wilson, and Rodgers get) is if he goes 16-0 and simply can't be ignored. And then only if he's very close to the top with most of his stats.

We can argue all day that the Steelers need Ben to win, but the exact same thing holds true for the other potential MVPs. What do Seattle, Green Bay, and KC look like without their QB? Seattle and Green Bay would probably lose every game. Those QBs are even more valuable to their teams than Ben is to ours. At least we have a defense.

But if we DO go 16-0 it will get very interesting.

[RunNGun]

I think the ONLY way for Ben to win MVP without being at the very top of the stat board (which he won't be. We just won't get the type of passing yards that Mahomes, Wilson, and Rodgers get) is if he goes 16-0 and simply can't be ignored. And then only if he's very close to the top with most of his stats.

We can argue all day that the Steelers need Ben to win, but the exact same thing holds true for the other potential MVPs. What do Seattle, Green Bay, and KC look like without their QB? Seattle and Green Bay would probably lose every game. Those QBs are even more valuable to their teams than Ben is to ours. At least we have a defense.

But if we DO go 16-0 it will get very interesting.

Agreed. I'd say if he was around 35+TDs and -10ints, and the Steelers finished 14-2 or better then he will be considered. I think most would say they don't believe Ben will actually win the award, but should at least be recognized for what he's achieving. If the Steelers do continue to run the table and he keeps the same pace, then he is undoubtedly a legitimate candidate.

[polamalubeast]

awful list

1329456408979509250

[teegre]

Ben has never received one single, solitary vote.

[fansince'76]

Chris Simms - LOL.

[pczach]

awful list

1329456408979509250



The amazing thing is that there are many people here who believe that list is accurate.

I defy anyone that understands football to say that they would not pick Ben and Brady in a big game against a top defense over almost all of that list.

[86WARD]

The amazing thing is that there are many people here who believe that list is accurate.

I defy anyone that understands football to say that they would not pick Ben and Brady in a big game against a top defense over almost all of that list.

I’d roll with Ben or Brady over a majority of that list. The little things that Ben is doing to get receivers open is pretty crazy right now. Against Cincinnati, he’s toying with the safeties and LBs. There’s a good Merrill Hoge video on Steelers.com that breaks down a couple plays and shows what Ben did with his head fakes and pump fake. He broke ankles with his pump fake and it’s actually pretty funny.

[YinzerCrazy]

He should be.

Wrote this a few weeks ago about Ben and the Steelers WR's.

What do you think?

[DesertSteel]

Another illogical opinion:

“I think absolutely he has to be an MVP candidate,” said his former coach, Bill Cowher, who watches every Steelers game in his role as a studio analyst for CBS Sports. “You’re talking about the best team in football with the best record, you look at what he’s done after being off a year, his story is remarkable.”

[fansince'76]

He should be.

Wrote this a few weeks ago about Ben and the Steelers WR's.


What do you think?

I think it's :spam:!

Hasta la vista, baby...

[polamalubeast]

almost 3 week ago...

1324807332551925761

Tonight...

1331094102386085889

1331094793468960827

- - - Updated - - -

1331072246400626689

[pczach]

People will never figure out that quarterbacks that trail in games and lose more games throw for more yards and stats against softer defenses. The also don't seem to get that quarterbacks that play in warm weather, great weather cities, or domes have a huuuuge advantages as quarterbacks. Imagine if a guy like Ben played in a dome his entire career. Not in stadiums where it's difficult just to make a long field goal. Playing in cold temps, high winds, monsoons, snow storms, ice, and the like aren't conducive to great quarterback numbers.

If Rivers doesn't play in San Diego and now a dome, and played the teams in his division in mostly warm weather, does anyone really believe he would have better stats?

If Drew Brees played in cold weather and heavy winds his entire career instead of a dome and playing all the teams from his division in warm weather and domes, does anyone think he would have the same numbers?

There are some legitimately great quarterbacks out there. No doubt. But the fact that this stuff never gets mentioned or factored into some of the nonsense that people talk about when evaluating certain quarterback's careers should be embarrassing to them. They don't know what they don't know. Some of this is just common sense, but I'm always amazed at how little so many people know or understand.

I'd love to get some of these people on a field and watch them throw in perfect conditions, and then take them somewhere to throw in 30 mile and hour winds and rain and see how they feel about it. It's hard to even describe how much more difficult it is to someone that has never done it. It is literally a night and day difference in difficulty.

That's also why quarterbacks that win tons of games in bad weather cities and stadiums are much greater than the stats say they are.

[Mojouw]

People will never figure out that quarterbacks that trail in games and lose more games throw for more yards and stats against softer defenses. The also don't seem to get that quarterbacks that play in warm weather, great weather cities, or domes have a huuuuge advantages as quarterbacks. Imagine if a guy like Ben played in a dome his entire career. Not in stadiums where it's difficult just to make a long field goal. Playing in cold temps, high winds, monsoons, snow storms, ice, and the like aren't conducive to great quarterback numbers.

If Rivers doesn't play in San Diego and now a dome, and played the teams in his division in mostly warm weather, does anyone really believe he would have better stats?

If Drew Brees played in cold weather and heavy winds his entire career instead of a dome and playing all the teams from his division in warm weather and domes, does anyone think he would have the same numbers?

There are some legitimately great quarterbacks out there. No doubt. But the fact that this stuff never gets mentioned or factored into some of the nonsense that people talk about when evaluating certain quarterback's careers should be embarrassing to them. They don't know what they don't know. Some of this is just common sense, but I'm always amazed at how little so many people know or understand.

I'd love to get some of these people on a field and watch them throw in perfect conditions, and then take them somewhere to throw in 30 mile and hour winds and rain and see how they feel about it. It's hard to even describe how much more difficult it is to someone that has never done it. It is literally a night and day difference in difficulty.

That's also why quarterbacks that win tons of games in bad weather cities and stadiums are much greater than the stats say they are.

I remember reading a TON of pre-draft scouting reports on the 2004 QB class (or at least Manning, Rivers, and Ben). Opinions varied about all 3. Blah blah blah. BUT...the one thing that was almost universal was that if you played outside in the cold weather and other bad elements...draft Ben R and call it a day.

We can debate that QB class and Ben's place among other peers, but I do agree that he has proven over and over again...that he is like the postal service. Rain...snow...sleet...or hail...the pass must get through.

[DesertSteel]

I remember reading a TON of pre-draft scouting reports on the 2004 QB class (or at least Manning, Rivers, and Ben). Opinions varied about all 3. Blah blah blah. BUT...the one thing that was almost universal was that if you played outside in the cold weather and other bad elements...draft Ben R and call it a day.

We can debate that QB class and Ben's place among other peers, but I do agree that he has proven over and over again...that he is like the postal service. Rain...snow...sleet...or hail...the pass must get through.

I'm hoping that Ben goes postal on Thursday!

[86WARD]

I'm hoping that Ben goes postal on Thursday!

Literally LOL...

[Steeler-in-west]

If Ben getting the mvp means he also gets to be on the cover of madden....then we don’t want it

[teegre]

I'm hoping that Ben goes postal on Thursday!

Ben will never stop. He’ll just keep scoring and scoring. He won’t let up, because he’s relentless.

[Six Rings]

Ben can win it this year, but Mahomes has 27 TD's and just 2 INT's so far. That is tough to beat. However is he's the QB on a 16-0 team, with similar numbers, why not?

[DesertSteel]

I'm hearing Big Ben MVP conversation all over the media this week so it's not just the few of us on here who've lost our minds. As with us here, the condition is going 16-0. Seems to be the only way he could overtake Mahomes, and still a long shot.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/66002369/so-youre-saying-theres-a-chance.jpg

[FrancoLambert]

Ben will never stop. He’ll just keep scoring and scoring. He won’t let up, because he’s relentless.


That’s how the USPS came up with the term, “forever” stamps.

[teegre]

That’s how the USPS came up with the term, “forever” stamps.

That’s gold!!!

[86WARD]

I’ll just stick this right here:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201130/c562e9b71bc0fc373bd45ab217a2aa36.jpg

Fewer than Brees, Brady, Manning, Favre, Elway, Eli, Rivers, etc...

[DesertSteel]

Just heard it live: “I have Big Ben for MVP right now.” Skip Bayless. Lol

[pczach]

Just heard it live: “I have Big Ben for MVP right now.” Skip Bayless. Lol



So....If Bayless says it....does it disqualify Ben? :chuckle:

[DesertSteel]

So....If Bayless says it....does it disqualify Ben? :chuckle:
I think it does!

[RunNGun]

Just when you thought there may be a chance Skip Bayless ruins everything! That guys a moron.

[cubanstogie]

Just when you thought there may be a chance Skip Bayless ruins everything! That guys a moron.
True! Ben certainly didn’t help his cause. Pic in red zone was awful, other than that a lot of drops. I recorded game and new outcome, thank god. I was fast forwarding the analysis but did hear at one point 6 drops. Seemed like a very vanilla offensive gameplan. I cant even recall any great plays on offense, could be due to fast forwarding. Happy 11-0 and seeing harbaugh whine, bummed about Bud.

[Mojouw]

Anyone want to make this argument still? MVP quarterbacks don't routinely throw deep balls 4 yards out of bounds.

[Hawkman]

Anyone want to make this argument still? MVP quarterbacks don't routinely throw deep balls 4 yards out of bounds.

I guess the fact that no one has chimed in on this thread in over a week....the answer would be, “No”.

[Mojouw]

I guess the fact that no one has chimed in on this thread in over a week....the answer would be, “No”.

For sure...but I just can't help myself sometimes...

[SteelMember]

:stirthepot:

[Hawkman]

For sure...but I just can't help myself sometimes...

What the hell.....it’s a Friday!:drink:

[DesertSteel]

Anyone want to make this argument still? MVP quarterbacks don't routinely throw deep balls 4 yards out of bounds.
I’d say that’s a liberal use of the word “routinely.” But if it makes a better case for how bad Ben is....

- - - Updated - - -


I guess the fact that no one has chimed in on this thread in over a week....the answer would be, “No”.
I think anyone who was putting him in the conversation was making it contingent on going 16-0.

[cubanstogie]

I’d say that’s a liberal use of the word “routinely.” But if it makes a better case for how bad Ben is....

- - - Updated - - -


I think anyone who was putting him in the conversation was making it contingent on going 16-0.
Correct, I had him third at best. 16-0 with 4 solid games with Mahomes and Rodgers coming back to field. Zero chance now IMO

[st33lersguy]

Right now Mahomes is the heavy favorite with Rodgers at a distant second. Outside of those two there isn't another legitimate contender

[Trellaine]

NFL today says the Steelers are concerned about Bens knee. That can’t be good.

[86WARD]

No where near the conversation...no where...

[st33lersguy]

Maybe it's time to shut this thread down now

[RunNGun]

It's time I eat crow. Admittedly, I was one who thought Ben was pretty much done after his injury last year, but man was I wrong. He's playing extremely good football right now. He's finding all of his WRs and it's very impressive to watch. Imo, when you talk about the MVP, Ben Roethlisberger should be near the top of that list.

Can I eat crow again? And go back to what I originally thought about Ben. Can I get a pass? He can't move and it's killing this offense. He's too old and fragile. He can no longer do what use to make him a great QB. This team is getting bounced in rd 1.

[that1guy]

Can I eat crow again? And go back to what I originally thought about Ben. Can I get a pass? He can't move and it's killing this offense. He's too old and fragile. He can no longer do what use to make him a great QB. This team is getting bounced in rd 1.

I'm already looking at best QBs in the 2021 draft ( insert sad emoji face)

[Fire Goodell]

The league caught on to why he’s doing the short passes, he can’t go long any more and can’t extend the plays like he used to. He’s done

[fansince'76]

I'm already looking at best QBs in the 2021 draft ( insert sad emoji face)

Hope they get lucky and find a good one quickly, because the team's historical track record in that area is not good and there are a whole lot of pretenders out there...

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

This thead needs to be taking outside the barn and shot!

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

MVP are you kidding me this guy can't even get a first down unless it's hurry up offense.

[teegre]

Ben’s knee is worse than they are letting on. He cannot move. Ergo, any sort of pass rush leads to a hurried throw. Not getting sacked is great, but not at the expense of throwing it incomplete 20 times a game.

[fansince'76]

Ben’s knee is worse than they are letting on. He cannot move. Ergo, any sort of pass rush leads to a hurried throw. Not getting sacked is great, but not at the expense of throwing it incomplete 20 times a game.

Agreed. He looked stiffer than a board coming out of the tunnel at the beginning of the game last night.

[that1guy]

Ben is 39 years old and has dealt with more injuries than any player in the league, It could be 'father time'. Ben hasn't been mobile in quite some time and his ability to throw with accuracy 10+ yards down the field is very telling. At this point the Steelers are looking offensively like a team that will win 1 more game this season and be 1 and done in the playoffs, after that does Ben and Part of Steeler nation admit its time to draft a successor? I'd love to see Ben play a few more years but its just not realistic.

[tube517]

Ben’s knee is worse than they are letting on. He cannot move. Ergo, any sort of pass rush leads to a hurried throw. Not getting sacked is great, but not at the expense of throwing it incomplete 20 times a game.

The Dallas game is where he left the field before halftime and I think he tweaked the knee there. He really hasn't been the same since.

[Mojouw]

Ben’s knee is worse than they are letting on. He cannot move. Ergo, any sort of pass rush leads to a hurried throw. Not getting sacked is great, but not at the expense of throwing it incomplete 20 times a game.

I guess that might explain why he doesn't move his feet - at all - when throwing as well. And why he floats and flutters everything because he basically does not use his lower body.

Finish 12-4 and get healthy...I guess? But, honestly, if Ben is so banged up that he can only sit back there and throw "arm punts"...then give him a week off and let Mason Rudolph do that.

[DesertSteel]

Ben is 39 years old
He's actually 38.

[DesertSteel]

I just looked at the current starting quarterbacks for the 31 other teams and there were 11 that I would take in place of the 2020 Ben. The last three games are an indictment but he can still change the narrative. He’s gonna need the threat of a running game though.

[cubanstogie]

I would start Rudolph against Bengals. Dont let game get out of hand but Ben playing like last few weeks is not going to cut it in playoffs. That’s assuming hes banged up opposed to washed up.

[that1guy]

He's actually 38.
Sorry Ben. (Wherever you are)

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

I would start Rudolph against Bengals. Dont let game get out of hand but Ben playing like last few weeks is not going to cut it in playoffs. That’s assuming hes banged up opposed to washed up. I agree with other posters and he is just bang up with the knee. We seen earlier in the season he still has it. Kinda agree also letting him rest for that game. That said sooner would have Dobbs playing then Rudolph.

[Dwinsgames]

MVP .... well he is 5/13 for Minus 2 yards and a pick and its nearly halftime vs the BENGALS .....


he is no more an MVP candidate than I am

[Mojouw]

MVP .... well he is 5/13 for Minus 2 yards and a pick and its nearly halftime vs the BENGALS .....


he is no more an MVP candidate than I am

Nice!


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