Breakdown of Steelers Pass Rush

[Mojouw]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2020/film-room-pittsburgh-defense

Interesting breakdown how through 2 weeks the pass rush design is to isolate a DB or LB on the RB in order to generate sacks.

As the article correctly points out, it will be interesting if the seemingly unsustainable blitz rate will continue once the Steelers encounter better offensive lines and RBs that can pass protect.

[Born2Steel]

Take away the QB and you take away ALL WRs. A good plan if it's sustainable.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Its kind of an amusing article and assumptions.

When a defense blitzes, the O linemen cannot move, so its up to the RB if he is in bilitz pickup to then pick up the blitzer. By design in football, you try to block "big on big", which means you have linemen occupying linemen and TE's on Linemen or OLB's in a 3-4(who are essentially undersized DE's in pass rush).

To say that a defense targets blitzing the RB is really a silly statement. When there is a blitz, the offense has a protection where they try and match up the extra blocker on the blitzing LB or DB. Its not the other way around.

[Mojouw]

Its kind of an amusing article and assumptions.

When a defense blitzes, the O linemen cannot move, so its up to the RB if he is in bilitz pickup to then pick up the blitzer. By design in football, you try to block "big on big", which means you have linemen occupying linemen and TE's on Linemen or OLB's in a 3-4(who are essentially undersized DE's in pass rush).

To say that a defense targets blitzing the RB is really a silly statement. When there is a blitz, the offense has a protection where they try and match up the extra blocker on the blitzing LB or DB. Its not the other way around.
I dunno. If the offensive response to bringing extra pass rushers is as canonical and universal as you are indicating, why wouldn't a defense be able to use loops, stunts, and delays in concert to manipulate the offensive blocking scheme?

I don't find it super hard to believe that one of the few teams that runs a full speed backs on backers drill repeatedly and prizes player performance in that drill not only gets backs that can pass pro out of it but NBs and LBs that can dominate opposing RBs in the pass rush.

[polamalubeast]

1310993127738662912

Very early but the steelers are on pace for 80 sacks so far.....60 sacks for the steelers this year is possible.

[polamalubeast]

1311218092111003648

[Mojouw]

1311218092111003648

Bud Dupree is lazy and a waste of a draft pick.

Any random OLB could have sacks in the Steelers defense.

TJ Watt should've had to earn his starting spot.

Just a sampling of the hot takes from this board. Gee, wonder if the people running the team knew anything different?

[polamalubeast]

Bud Dupree is lazy and a waste of a draft pick.

Any random OLB could have sacks in the Steelers defense.

TJ Watt should've had to earn his starting spot.

Just a sampling of the hot takes from this board. Gee, wonder if the people running the team knew anything different?

Remember when many thought the steelers were stupid to keep Dupree before the 2019 season because he had a salary of 9 millions!

Seriously, Dupree is perhaps the most underrated player of the steelers right now, very important and he has improved a lot since last year...It takes at least 2 very good edge rusher to have a very good pass rush and Dupree is very good, a bit like Lamarr Woodley before his injuries.

If Dupree leaves next year, it will not be easy for his replacement (probably Alex Highsmith) to have a good production like Dupree since last year, but I will hope for the best!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I dunno. If the offensive response to bringing extra pass rushers is as canonical and universal as you are indicating, why wouldn't a defense be able to use loops, stunts, and delays in concert to manipulate the offensive blocking scheme?

I don't find it super hard to believe that one of the few teams that runs a full speed backs on backers drill repeatedly and prizes player performance in that drill not only gets backs that can pass pro out of it but NBs and LBs that can dominate opposing RBs in the pass rush.

1. Find me a team blitz pickup scheme from anybody in the NFL that comprises of them having a O lineman picking up the edge blitzer and instead having the RB pickup the DE.

2. Find me a NFL defense that when blitzing from the edge, does not expect the blitzer to be 1 on 1 vs the back.

You seem to think its some revelation that the Steelers blitz design "isolates the RB to generate sacks". On every blitz where there is a RB/FB/H-Back/TE in the backfield for protection....the expectation is they pick up the blitzer by the set protection. They could be reading inside out and taking the ILB blitzing up the middle, or using a slide protection that has the back taking the last guy on the edge, or even a release call(less often). OC's never say " I want the back to pickup the 270 lb DE". They want to block big on big, small on small.

[Mojouw]

1. Find me a team blitz pickup scheme from anybody in the NFL that comprises of them having a O lineman picking up the edge blitzer and instead having the RB pickup the DE.

2. Find me a NFL defense that when blitzing from the edge, does not expect the blitzer to be 1 on 1 vs the back.

You seem to think its some revelation that the Steelers blitz design "isolates the RB to generate sacks". On every blitz where there is a RB/FB/H-Back/TE in the backfield for protection....the expectation is they pick up the blitzer by the set protection. They could be reading inside out and taking the ILB blitzing up the middle, or using a slide protection that has the back taking the last guy on the edge, or even a release call(less often). OC's never say " I want the back to pickup the 270 lb DE". They want to block big on big, small on small.

Sure. I never said that I agreed with the over-statements in the article or whatever it is that you think I am saying. Of course the basics of pass protection are how you have stated them. And you can manipulate that with clever design. Some teams implement, stunts, loops, and delays better than others. For instance, the Ravens kept looping Judon to get him on a TE or a RB. And it wasn't cleverly done and even the folks on their couch at home could see where he was going to come from and how to account for him.

All I am saying is that if you know that you send this DE this way, the OT does this and then that makes the G do this...etc.; you should be able to start trying to manipulate that a bit. Show a team what they think the pass rush is going to be. They set their protection plan in one way -- then do something a bit different to ensure you get some favorable match-ups. And despite the flawed phrasing, the moving pictures in the article supported that overall idea.

Steelers Depot had another article up in the last week or so that showed how Steelers were using movement in their run defense "throw off" run blcoking schemes of the O-line. Is it not possible to do the same in the pass rush? https://steelersdepot.com/2020/09/watch-how-the-steelers-run-stunts-create-chaos-for-blocking-schemes/

If all NFL teams know the basics of how any other NFL team is going to set up their pass protection and blitz pick-ups, why would they not attempt to confuse or exploit them? The team has led the league in sacks per game every season from 2017-2020 and been in the top 10 since 2015. There might be something to how they are setting up their pass rush/blitz schemes on top of individual player ability. Many teams have an array of talented pass rushers and blitzers, but no one else is putting up the team sack #'s the Steelers are...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

If all NFL teams know the basics of how any other NFL team is going to set up their pass protection and blitz pick-ups, why would they not attempt to confuse or exploit them? ..

ITs like checkers. When its your turn, you have to react, so when the ball is snapped, the Offense wants to get their RB blocking the blitzing DB or LB. You stated that the Steelers "pass rush design is to isolate a DB or LB on the RB in order to generate sacks."
IT IS THE SAME THING THAT THE OFFENSE WANTS.

Its like saying that when I order a pizza for delivery, the Pizza company is trying to outthink me and deliver pizza to my door, instead of me picking it up. We both want the same thing for god sakes!! Its nothing revolutionary.

The point of a blitz is to send more defenders than normal and disguise to some degree where the blitzers are coming from, so that an offensive blocker hesitates briefly and it gives the pass rusher an edge to win a 1 on 1 battle. Offenses counter by using a coordinated blitz pickup protection where there are rules and the QB then knows where the weakest point of the protection is, therefore understanding where pressure will most likely come from.

[Mojouw]

ITs like checkers. When its your turn, you have to react, so when the ball is snapped, the Offense wants to get their RB blocking the blitzing DB or LB. You stated that the Steelers "pass rush design is to isolate a DB or LB on the RB in order to generate sacks."
IT IS THE SAME THING THAT THE OFFENSE WANTS.

Its like saying that when I order a pizza for delivery, the Pizza company is trying to outthink me and deliver pizza to my door, instead of me picking it up. We both want the same thing for god sakes!! Its nothing revolutionary.

The point of a blitz is to send more defenders than normal and disguise to some degree where the blitzers are coming from, so that an offensive blocker hesitates briefly and it gives the pass rusher an edge to win a 1 on 1 battle. Offenses counter by using a coordinated blitz pickup protection where there are rules and the QB then knows where the weakest point of the protection is, therefore understanding where pressure will most likely come from.

Sure, But no matter what...I suspect an offense doesn't want this (despite the title it displays I promise it is football):

https://gfycat.com/ifr/DisfiguredBleakCaribou


That is Guard blocking no one. Watt getting doubled and Bush running free right at the QB. Clearly, I phrased it all poorly and in a way that seems to have really upset you. It certainly looks like they "fooled the RB" (as he blocks Watt initially then comes off him too late to pick up Bush). But just as many football fans are interested and amazed by the ways that clever OCs can use the basic tools at an offenses disposal to "scheme" to provide "easy" completions for the QB; I think it is worth looking at and appreciating that for his other faults, Butler seems to "scheme" his guys into 4-5 man rushes against 5-6 blocking sets that still allow someone a "free" run at the QB.
What I took from the article and why I said what I said is something like this (despite the title it displays I promise it is football):


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UglyDesertedAfricanpiedkingfisher-mobile.mp4

Now, either the Giants had a breakdown or the Steelers forced their hand because I do not think that, given the choice, the would have the OT on Mike Hilton and the RB on Dupree. Further, there is no way the Giants preference would be for BOTH the RB and the OT to block the DB and no one to block the DE - which is what ends up happening.


So, I can see these things on my own during a TV broadcast. I then search the internet to try and understand why I see what I see. To my brain it does not make sense that the OT and the RB block down to the blitzing DB and leave Dupree free. So I figure that the OT and RB "messed up". But then I read things like the article I posted and I start to wonder if maybe the Steelers defensive scheme is forcing blockers into difficult situations and making them make instantaneous complex decisions that can cause mistakes. Just as OC's across the league are using motion, play-action, and clever route combinations to force DBs into no-win situations and create plays for the offense. Might Butler not be doing the same for the defense? If so, wouldn't placing the RB (the weak link in the blocking scheme) in an "every decision you make is bad" scenario kinda the point? If you can also get a G or a T to do dumb things as well....more the better?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Sure, But no matter what...I suspect an offense doesn't want this (despite the title it displays I promise it is football):

https://gfycat.com/ifr/DisfiguredBleakCaribou


That is Guard blocking no one. Watt getting doubled and Bush running free right at the QB. Clearly, I phrased it all poorly and in a way that seems to have really upset you. It certainly looks like they "fooled the RB" (as he blocks Watt initially then comes off him too late to pick up Bush). But just as many football fans are interested and amazed by the ways that clever OCs can use the basic tools at an offenses disposal to "scheme" to provide "easy" completions for the QB; I think it is worth looking at and appreciating that for his other faults, Butler seems to "scheme" his guys into 4-5 man rushes against 5-6 blocking sets that still allow someone a "free" run at the QB.
What I took from the article and why I said what I said is something like this (despite the title it displays I promise it is football):


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UglyDesertedAfricanpiedkingfisher-mobile.mp4

Now, either the Giants had a breakdown or the Steelers forced their hand because I do not think that, given the choice, the would have the OT on Mike Hilton and the RB on Dupree. Further, there is no way the Giants preference would be for BOTH the RB and the OT to block the DB and no one to block the DE - which is what ends up happening.


So, I can see these things on my own during a TV broadcast. I then search the internet to try and understand why I see what I see. To my brain it does not make sense that the OT and the RB block down to the blitzing DB and leave Dupree free. So I figure that the OT and RB "messed up". But then I read things like the article I posted and I start to wonder if maybe the Steelers defensive scheme is forcing blockers into difficult situations and making them make instantaneous complex decisions that can cause mistakes. Just as OC's across the league are using motion, play-action, and clever route combinations to force DBs into no-win situations and create plays for the offense. Might Butler not be doing the same for the defense? If so, wouldn't placing the RB (the weak link in the blocking scheme) in an "every decision you make is bad" scenario kinda the point? If you can also get a G or a T to do dumb things as well....more the better?

Video 1 is a simple 4-man rush with a B-gap blitz on the left side of the defense. Very simple to pick up. Honestly, you teach a 6th grade RB to step into the lane and read inside-out (from A-gap to C-gap) and pick up the bitzing ILB. IMO, the RB either missed a protection call or is just an idiot. Bush walks right down to the LOS pre snap, so nothing is hidden. IMO, the Steelers are trying to see if they can get Watt on the RB, but the RT knows he has Watt (big on big), but the RB doesnt know the protection.

Video 2 is just a simple Corner blitz to B-gap, rather than blitz to C-gap. IMO, another where the RB or LT is confused if they have gap responsibility or man responsibility. Its a no show blitz as Hilton does a good job of disguising it by coming late, but its not like as Steeler fans we dont see this blitz on a weekly basis. I'm just amazed that the Giants havent repped this out in preparation and discussed it in Offensive film sessions multiple times during Steelers week. They should have that protection down solid, as its nothing bizarre.

[Mojouw]

Video 1 is a simple 4-man rush with a B-gap blitz on the left side of the defense. Very simple to pick up. Honestly, you teach a 6th grade RB to step into the lane and read inside-out (from A-gap to C-gap) and pick up the bitzing ILB. IMO, the RB either missed a protection call or is just an idiot. Bush walks right down to the LOS pre snap, so nothing is hidden. IMO, the Steelers are trying to see if they can get Watt on the RB, but the RT knows he has Watt (big on big), but the RB doesnt know the protection.

Video 2 is just a simple Corner blitz to B-gap, rather than blitz to C-gap. IMO, another where the RB or LT is confused if they have gap responsibility or man responsibility. Its a no show blitz as Hilton does a good job of disguising it by coming late, but its not like as Steeler fans we dont see this blitz on a weekly basis. I'm just amazed that the Giants havent repped this out in preparation and discussed it in Offensive film sessions multiple times during Steelers week. They should have that protection down solid, as its nothing bizarre.

All true. I can not take issue with any of that. But for 4+ seasons now it has happened week in and week out that teams continue to make foolish decisions against the Steelers 4-5 man pressures. Something is putting offenses in a bind. Perhaps it is just that they are feasting on weak o-lines and bad pass protecting RBs? I don't know. It would be interesting to look at it in more detail game by game for the past 2 seasons. I guess in my copious spare time...

[Craic]

1310993127738662912

Very early but the steelers are on pace for 80 sacks so far.....60 sacks for the steelers this year is possible.

Yeah, and they're on pace for over 200 QB hits this year. Unreal.

[Mojouw]

Yeah, and they're on pace for over 200 QB hits this year. Unreal.

With the Ravens twice and the Bills and a healthy Cowboys line the only not mediocre or worse o-lines on the remaining schedule...the might keep this ludicrous pace up. I count 8 games on the remaining schedule with below par offensive lines (qualitative not quantitative measure) including the Titans if Lewan is out.

Dupree is going to make himself several trucks full of money.

[polamalubeast]

1311456551933292544

crazy!

[Born2Steel]

Just hearing guys talk about the Broncos it seems they tried to run a spread offense even after Lock was knocked out of the game. The Denver OL could not win their 1on1 battles against the Steelers pass rushers, and never tried to get them help consistently. It was just simply a mismatch. Heyward, Tuitt, Watt, Dupree got consistent pressure beating their man and blitzers were finding free runs into the backfield. The Steelers' DL/OLBs are really that good right now.

[86WARD]

Bud Dupree is lazy and a waste of a draft pick.

Any random OLB could have sacks in the Steelers defense.

TJ Watt should've had to earn his starting spot.

Just a sampling of the hot takes from this board. Gee, wonder if the people running the team knew anything different?

Lol.

If there’s one thing people should learn...it’s to not jump to conclusions at first site and trust the process...

I know I’m still learning.

[Mojouw]

Lol.

If there’s one thing people should learn...it’s to not jump to conclusions at first site and trust the process...

I know I’m still learning.

Agreed. I do it just as much as anyone else. Like I still think Washington kinda wasn't worth the draft pick. I now will concede that Dangerfield is an asset on special teams but I can't wait for him to be off the roster. I was also convinced that Jaylen Samuels was going to be some really useful version of Melwede Moore crossed with Chris Cooley. That was clearly wrong.

[Born2Steel]

Agreed. I do it just as much as anyone else. Like I still think Washington kinda wasn't worth the draft pick. I now will concede that Dangerfield is an asset on special teams but I can't wait for him to be off the roster. I was also convinced that Jaylen Samuels was going to be some really useful version of Melwede Moore crossed with Chris Cooley. That was clearly wrong.

That is an interesting point on Samuels. This was brought up in a couple of threads this offseason. What exactly does Jaylen Samuels do well? He's not a power runner, he's not good in pass protection, he hasn't shown shiftiness or explosiveness in the open field, and he doesn't seem to be a target in the passing game. He must have some value somewhere so where is it, ST? I would think McCloud becomes the utility back and let him play the slash role.

[Mojouw]

That is an interesting point on Samuels. This was brought up in a couple of threads this offseason. What exactly does Jaylen Samuels do well? He's not a power runner, he's not good in pass protection, he hasn't shown shiftiness or explosiveness in the open field, and he doesn't seem to be a target in the passing game. He must have some value somewhere so where is it, ST? I would think McCloud becomes the utility back and let him play the slash role.

I think Samuels best skill right now is knowing the playbook and having the trust of the coaching staff. But, for me, he is failed pick. I was totally excited about him and thought he would be a nice match-up piece on offense. It isn't working out.

If/when (?) McFarland sees increased snaps, that is the first place I go to get them. Between McFarland, McCloud, and ??? I would be okay if Samuels didn't dress on gamedays.

[dislocatedday]

Bud Dupree is lazy and a waste of a draft pick.

Any random OLB could have sacks in the Steelers defense.

TJ Watt should've had to earn his starting spot.

Just a sampling of the hot takes from this board. Gee, wonder if the people running the team knew anything different?

I was disappointed in Bud the first few years, but looking back now at all the edge rushers drafted in the first round in 2015, he has turned out better than any of them I think. Her is the list:

Pick #3 - Jacksonville - Dante Fowler
Pick #8 - Atlanta - Vic Beasley
Pick #22 - Pittsburgh - Bud Dupree
Pick #23 - Denver - Shane Ray

[Mojouw]

I was disappointed in Bud the first few years, but looking back now at all the edge rushers drafted in the first round in 2015, he has turned out better than any of them I think. Her is the list:

Pick #3 - Jacksonville - Dante Fowler
Pick #8 - Atlanta - Vic Beasley
Pick #22 - Pittsburgh - Bud Dupree
Pick #23 - Denver - Shane Ray

I think everyone was frustrated. But he is the tops of that list. And he only looks better if you expand the list. Pass rushers are not sure fire draft decisions. If you consider that Dupree didn't have any pass rush moves when he hit the NFL and then had 1-2 seasons totally robbed by upper body injuries...he looks more and more like a solid draft pick.

It is a shame that the Steelers invested time, money, and resources in developing him and he will take that to another organization. But thems the breaks...

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I was disappointed in Bud the first few years, but looking back now at all the edge rushers drafted in the first round in 2015, he has turned out better than any of them I think. Her is the list:

Pick #3 - Jacksonville - Dante Fowler
Pick #8 - Atlanta - Vic Beasley
Pick #22 - Pittsburgh - Bud Dupree
Pick #23 - Denver - Shane Ray

Look up where ZaDarius Smith was drafted that year. He and Dupree were teammates at KY.

[polamalubeast]

I was disappointed in Bud the first few years, but looking back now at all the edge rushers drafted in the first round in 2015, he has turned out better than any of them I think. Her is the list:

Pick #3 - Jacksonville - Dante Fowler
Pick #8 - Atlanta - Vic Beasley
Pick #22 - Pittsburgh - Bud Dupree
Pick #23 - Denver - Shane Ray

Vic Beasley had like 14 sacks in 2016 I think but many of his sacks were dong Sacks...His pressure% was not good!

[polamalubeast]

1314650101982343169

[Six Rings]

With the Ravens twice and the Bills and a healthy Cowboys line the only not mediocre or worse o-lines on the remaining schedule...the might keep this ludicrous pace up. I count 8 games on the remaining schedule with below par offensive lines (qualitative not quantitative measure) including the Titans if Lewan is out.

Dupree is going to make himself several trucks full of money.

He already has! The key to our pass rush is Watt. That guy is double teamed and always around the QB. His hand use is the best around, maybe ever, as he seldom wins with a speed rush or bull rush, rather he gets close by using both then is a master at breaking free with his hands.

Dupree looks really good, partly because of Watt, and Heyward demand attention.

Put Bud on another team, and IMO he's not as good. Tuitt has been rather quiet so far. I'm waiting for him to play up to his ability.

- - - Updated - - -


Agreed. I do it just as much as anyone else. Like I still think Washington kinda wasn't worth the draft pick. I now will concede that Dangerfield is an asset on special teams but I can't wait for him to be off the roster. I was also convinced that Jaylen Samuels was going to be some really useful version of Melwede Moore crossed with Chris Cooley. That was clearly wrong.

Agreed on Washington. A 2nd round disappointment, who's looking like the #4 WR. Samules was never really a star role player, he just has some speed and catching ability that Conner lacked.

[polamalubeast]

He already has! The key to our pass rush is Watt. That guy is double teamed and always around the QB. His hand use is the best around, maybe ever, as he seldom wins with a speed rush or bull rush, rather he gets close by using both then is a master at breaking free with his hands.

Dupree looks really good, partly because of Watt, and Heyward demand attention.

Put Bud on another team, and IMO he's not as good. Tuitt has been rather quiet so far. I'm waiting for him to play up to his ability.

- - - Updated - - -



Agreed on Washington. A 2nd round disappointment, who's looking like the #4 WR. Samules was never really a star role player, he just has some speed and catching ability that Conner lacked.

Dupree is great and he has more double team that Watt right now this year according to this...

1312411169332830211

[Born2Steel]

5 sacks today vs the Eagles. I wonder how many QB hits total though. Looked like Wentz got knocked down quite a bit to me.

[86WARD]

5 sacks today vs the Eagles. I wonder how many QB hits total though. Looked like Wentz got knocked down quite a bit to me.

I believe at one point is was something like 12 hits, 3 sacks on 26 drop backs...

[tube517]

Averaging 5 sacks/game.

How many are dong sacks though? :chuckle:

[Craic]

Dupree is great and he has more double team that Watt right now this year according to this...


Huh, that's an interesting graph. Dupree is double-teamed almost twice as much as Watt, and, he's still winning about 15 percent of those. Only 4 other players are being double-teamed more than he is. of course, there are several players who are winning those more than he is when they are double-teamed.

[HollywoodSteel]

Huh, that's an interesting graph. Dupree is double-teamed almost twice as much as Watt, and, he's still winning about 15 percent of those. Only 4 other players are being double-teamed more than he is. of course, there are several players who are winning those more than he is when they are double-teamed.

What constitutes a double team? Does it mean two dedicated blockers to a pass rusher or does a chip count as a double team?

Do you think it’s more about offenses just geared to double team the blind side generally and they don’t bother to rescheme for the Steelers?

It is a tough pick your poison. I can see wanting to double the blind side more because even if Watt is better, at least the QB can see him coming. Dupree is pretty damn fast and strong. If you leave him one on one, him hitting your QB blind might be more dangerous in the long run.

I know a QB doesn’t want to get hit at all, but if they can choose who gets to them quicker, I can certainly understand wanting it to be the guy you can see.