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polamalubeast
10-03-2010, 02:07 PM
Is sucks:doh2::frusty::frusty:

HometownGal
10-03-2010, 02:36 PM
pb - I love ya dearly, but this thread is absolutely ridiculous. That is all.

HometownGal
10-03-2010, 03:00 PM
Please keep all post-game discussion here in this thread. Thanks! :drink:

Edman
10-03-2010, 03:02 PM
What good can we take from our first loss to Baltimore at Heinz since 2006?

Not much I say. That long TD drive is a plus I guess.

But overall, the Ravens wanted this game more than we did.

X-Terminator
10-03-2010, 03:04 PM
Well, here's the bottom line:

Poor playcalling on both sides of the ball.
Poor execution.
Too many penalties, and at the worst possible times.
Missed FGs.

Add it all up, and it equals a well-deserved loss.

polamalubeast
10-03-2010, 03:05 PM
I'm sorry ..... I was in shock.

Crow-Magnon
10-03-2010, 03:06 PM
Honestly, all the Steelers penalties looked like Baltimore has looked in the past. They are game killers.

steeldevil
10-03-2010, 03:06 PM
He wont be cut for this one game. If he keeps this up, then he better...

tube517
10-03-2010, 03:06 PM
Not converting on turnovers was a killer.

However, our QB is coming back. The O-line can learn from that long TD drive. The defense needs to play tighter.

Not the end of the world. We're still 3-1.


Well, here's the bottom line:

Poor playcalling on both sides of the ball.
Poor execution.
Too many penalties, and at the worst possible times.
Missed FGs.

Add it all up, and it equals a well-deserved loss.

Edman
10-03-2010, 03:08 PM
This is one of those games where our bad offense came back to bite us. Penalties and Reed doing his best Kris Brown impression killed us in this game.

Whatever, the four game stretch is over and we get Ben back.

Devilsdancefloor
10-03-2010, 03:08 PM
honestly all the early jumps by oher on Deebo not called and then shooting ourselves in the foot every chance we got.

Steeldude
10-03-2010, 03:08 PM
lebeau needs to see that the passive defense works against the titans and bucs because they do not have a QB. the ravens have a good QB.

smokin3000gt
10-03-2010, 03:09 PM
/thread

SteelCityMan786
10-03-2010, 03:09 PM
This performance Jeff Reed is why you don't have a long term deal.

Carolina Steelers
10-03-2010, 03:10 PM
disappointed yes, upset yes, frustrated yes, but if you would have told me we would be 3-1 after 4 games I would take it. The offense has been strugglin even though Batch had a deceant game last week 2 of his TD's could have been picked. With Mendy running the way he is and the defense playing well when Big Ben gets back under center the offense will be able to put more points on the board plus Heath and Hines will be more involed. So after a qrt of the season I would give us an B+. Always room for improvement.

X-Terminator
10-03-2010, 03:11 PM
Not converting on turnovers was a killer.

However, our QB is coming back. The O-line can learn from that long TD drive. The defense needs to play tighter.

Not the end of the world. We're still 3-1.

But it's a division loss AT HOME, which makes it more difficult to swallow. They had a chance to put the Ravens down 2 in the division and hand them their 2nd division loss, and they blew their chance. Instead, the Ravens now lead the division with their win today. This one is going to be with me for a while, and I'm not known as one who lets losses linger for longer than an hour.

JayC
10-03-2010, 03:12 PM
Well, here's the bottom line:

Poor playcalling on both sides of the ball.
Poor execution.
Too many penalties, and at the worst possible times.
Missed FGs.

Add it all up, and it equals a well-deserved loss.

this covered it. the end. let's see if ben can make our offense competent for more than 1 drive. if he can't then i'll start to panic. i'm already ready to move on. 3-1 ill take it.

Delraich
10-03-2010, 03:12 PM
Nyquil and rum!!! On the bright side as bad as we played all game we almost pulled it out. All I can really say good is that we did go 3-1 without Ben. Just wish if we had to take a loss in these four games it wasn't against the Rats or the game before the bye week.

salamander
10-03-2010, 03:12 PM
Well, the loss definiately sucks, but we still did better than most people expected us to do while Ben was gone. Now it's time to rest up this week, get #7 back then (hopefully) kick some Brownie ass.

HometownGal
10-03-2010, 03:13 PM
This performance Jeff Reed is why you don't have a long term deal.

Are you serious Matt????? The guy has saved our asses quite a few more times than he's missed FG's over all the years he's been a Steeler. He doesn't have a long term deal because he wants Janikowski kind of moola and he wouldn't get it whether he made 60 yarders on a regular basis or not. The Rooneys are not going to pay ANY PK $4 million per season and I have no doubt that even after this game, they are going to try to work something out with him.

solardave
10-03-2010, 03:16 PM
I'm pissed off big time. I predicted 4-0 and WE HAD IT!!! We screwed it up with all the damn penalties plus we had no game plan on either side. We played off of the recievers all day (except for Ike on Bolquin). Didn't see Troy all game. I take that back he had a nice tackle on Macgaheeheehee., who by the way now knows Clark and Harrison up close and personal. That's about the only consolation this game. What a shit game!!

Lambert_Loonie
10-03-2010, 03:17 PM
You mean its not official?

Thanks for getting my hopes up, jerk. :P

Jaquila
10-03-2010, 03:18 PM
Sucks to lose... Especially against *cough* Ravens *cough*

But hey the guys on offense and defense gave it all they had, just wasnt enough today.. sadly.

However we overcame these 4 weeks better than I thought we would ( 3-1 people!! ) and now ben is back to give the Offense and the team the last edge they need ( i hope:p ).

Btw, ive been following this site since the Steelers fever "incident" just been to lazy to register until now lol

love this community though !

:tt03: From Denmark =)

SteelerSal
10-03-2010, 03:19 PM
I know Reed missed twice but there is no other kicker I can think of (on the streets unemployed) that I would want to take his place and kick at Heinz Field.

oneforthetoe
10-03-2010, 03:20 PM
Are you serious Matt????? The guy has saved our asses quite a few more times than he's missed FG's over all the years he's been a Steeler. He doesn't have a long term deal because he wants Janikowski kind of moola and he wouldn't get it whether he made 60 yarders on a regular basis or not. The Rooneys are not going to pay ANY PK $4 million per season and I have no doubt that even after this game, they are going to try to work something out with him.

I agree with almost all of this HTG. However, I have to admit he has been less clutch the last two seasons. In fact, he has probably missed more big kicks the last two years than he had all his previous years. Of course he is not going to get cut there is nobody better out there.

Devilsdancefloor
10-03-2010, 03:21 PM
welcome and now that i have had a chance to "walk" it off it could have been alot worse! now we have 2 weeks to gt it together for hillis who is running like a beast

HometownGal
10-03-2010, 03:23 PM
lebeau needs to see that the passive defense works against the titans and bucs because they do not have a QB. the ravens have a good QB.

I agree 100%. Flacco is pretty much underrated by Steelers fans and I think they got a heapin' spoonful today on how talented this young man really is.

I was very disappointed in the lack of a pass rush overall. Flacco had all damned day to throw for the most part. :doh:

I'm really not upset about this loss at all. We played a team who is right on par with us (with a healthy Ben) and we almost beat them with our 4th stringer behind center. I'm listening to the 3 Stooges + Coach Cowher and they are stressing how VITAL Ben is to this team. I don't think a one of us would disagree . . . . well . . . except cold-hard-steel. ;) :heh:

We're 3-1 going into the bye with our 2 time SB winning, franchise QB coming back against the Browns in Week #5. We are gonna be just FINE! :thumbsup:

polamalubeast
10-03-2010, 03:23 PM
Now it is hoped that Roethlisberger will not make another stupid mistakes.

RushHard34
10-03-2010, 03:24 PM
i already accepted the lost (midway through the first) .... just knew where the game was heading.

3-1 on bye with no ben, ill take that any day of the week.

BPS3akaWirels3
10-03-2010, 03:24 PM
CAN WE PLEASE NOT START A BUNCH OF THESE WHINY THREADS FOR THE NEXT 2 WEEKS???? WE DO NOT NEED THIS... Stay positive and support our guys... We have a great chance to make this our year again..

Welcome... I know this isn't whiny yet but it will start..

HometownGal
10-03-2010, 03:25 PM
Hi Jaquila and welcome! :wave: :drink:

We try to keep all post-game discussion in one thread so as not to clog up the Steelers forum especially after a game when emotions are running high, so I'm merging your thread with the existing Post-Game Discussion thread.

Lambert_Loonie
10-03-2010, 03:26 PM
This was the type of game I was expecting - low scoring, smash mouth football. 3-1 with 3rd & 4th string QB's isn't too shabby, either. If you're going to lose, better to do it early in the year.

Mark your calendars, gang. December 5th, we're going to embarrass the Ratbirds in their house.

RushHard34
10-03-2010, 03:27 PM
is it just me or could there have been a false start called on any play the ravens ran? Their tackles were jumping every god damn play!

not complaining, but jesus

Burghfan58
10-03-2010, 03:27 PM
Jeff Reed wanted how much $ a season?

SteelCityMan786
10-03-2010, 03:27 PM
Are you serious Matt????? The guy has saved our asses quite a few more times than he's missed FG's over all the years he's been a Steeler. He doesn't have a long term deal because he wants Janikowski kind of moola and he wouldn't get it whether he made 60 yarders on a regular basis or not. The Rooneys are not going to pay ANY PK $4 million per season and I have no doubt that even after this game, they are going to try to work something out with him.

No, I was just stating my frustration with his performance today.

His 4 FG Misses Doesn't exactly make me feel easy though. The good news is, he has two weeks to get things figured out. The Bye Week can be such a wonderful thing.

Butch
10-03-2010, 03:28 PM
I'm alright with the loss as well just disappointed that we played just well enough to lose and as much as I understand the conservative play calling on offense it's not what we needed to win this game. It was expected we would run so we shoulda passed earlier. Even if we lose it is worth the gamble. MHO

Jaquila
10-03-2010, 03:28 PM
OK cool enough=)

Burghfan58
10-03-2010, 03:29 PM
is it just me or could there have been a false start called on any play the ravens ran? Their tackles were jumping every god damn play!

not complaining, but jesus

Absolutely I was screaming at the officials. Apparently they didn't hear me. What a gift this game was.

RushHard34
10-03-2010, 03:31 PM
Absolutely I was screaming at the officials. Apparently they didn't hear me. What a gift this game was.

i remember one specifically that one jumped on a 3rd down and they got the first down....was in the 4th with about 4-5 min left.

i thought the officiating was poor in this one, but what can ya do

Jaquila
10-03-2010, 03:32 PM
Jeff Reed wanted how much $ a season?

I thought that too during the game haha

I have lost a lot for Reed during this offseason with the whole contract thing, the way he played last season ( weak tackling and cost us the Bears game ), he didnt deserve a penny more !

Dino 6 Rings
10-03-2010, 03:32 PM
Lack of pressure by Woodley and Harrison also played a big role in this loss. 1 Sack I think total for the day. Flacco had way too much time to pick apart the defense with those dang out routes he tossed all day long.

Stupid Housh getting the Game Winning catch makes me want to puke.

solardave
10-03-2010, 03:34 PM
honestly all the early jumps by oher on Deebo not called and then shooting ourselves in the foot every chance we got.

I'm glad some one else saw that. I was yelling at the refs to call it all game.

Steelman
10-03-2010, 03:35 PM
A few beefs:

I realize that we're starting our 4-string quarterback, but after last week, how does that hobble a game plan? I don't know where Arians stashed his brain, but he apparently forgot where until the early 4th quarter when he finally allowed Batch to throw on 1st down and get some small chunks of yardage moving. That last TD drive was what should have happened the entire game, and especially after the 4th down stop and subsequent backup against our EZ.

That was a scaredy-cat game by Arians. I know we usually pass the blame to him anyway, but this was horrendous.

I mentioned it in the game thread, and maybe it's just a peeve, but why would we blitz Troy when they had to throw for a TD? Troy shrinks the field considerably and forces Flacco to think twice. I didn't like that call. And considering his history, he was very quiet in this game.

Penalties. A lot of them. I really have nothing to say. But nearly 100 yards in penalties? Thank God the Rats had as many too, or this game would have went downhill fast.

Jeff Reed. Everyone's gonna place the blame on him, which is somewhat deserved. 6 points against the Rats is a big deal. Especially when the offense was playing like trash. Granted, though, conditions weren't favorable.

Charlie should have ran for the first on the INT to Lewis.

It seemed like we were to focused on trying to force big splash plays. Which I understand that in a game like this, would break it open. But you gotta set it up first. After our initial success early, that just didn't happen. Closest one was to Wallace, but he couldn't hang on.

Frickin Oher! I don't know where Ed Hoculi left his contacts, but that was just pitiful. The dude was literally jumping backward before the snap.


A few nice things:

Mendenhall. Two touchdowns and 80 yards against a fired up Ravens D spells a good game. He seemed about ready to spring a few runs, but the blocking just wasn't there. Good effort by him today.

We're still 3-1. The sky isn't falling. And we have an extra week for Ben to get back into the mix. 3-1 is what most of us hoped for. It just hurts to get that one L against Baltimore. Close game. Tough loss.

This was a pull-your-hair-out type of loss.

Butch
10-03-2010, 03:35 PM
is it just me or could there have been a false start called on any play the ravens ran? Their tackles were jumping every god damn play!

not complaining, but jesus

Saw the same thing they would throw a flag on us at the drop of a hat but those false starts by Ohr was unbelievable.

Dino 6 Rings
10-03-2010, 03:36 PM
I'm glad some one else saw that. I was yelling at the refs to call it all game.

There was a lot, that's for sure, even a falst start not called on that one drive where we held on 4th and goal right before Flacco called a time out. It seems that the Ravens were figgity on that Oline but alas, not when it counted most on that final drive.

X-Terminator
10-03-2010, 03:38 PM
Saw the same thing they would throw a flag on us at the drop of a hat but those false starts by Ohr was unbelievable.

You were not the only one. I thought Oher started early at least 4 times that weren't called, and once on the final drive.

Dino 6 Rings
10-03-2010, 03:40 PM
A few beefs:

I realize that we're starting our 4-string quarterback, but after last week, how does that hobble a game plan? I don't know where Arians stashed his brain, but he apparently forgot where until the early 4th quarter when he finally allowed Batch to throw on 1st down and get some small chunks of yardage moving. That last TD drive was what should have happened the entire game, and especially after the 4th down stop and subsequent backup against our EZ.

That was a scaredy-cat game by Arians. I know we usually pass the blame to him anyway, but this was horrendous.

I mentioned it in the game thread, and maybe it's just a peeve, but why would we blitz Troy when they had to throw for a TD? Troy shrinks the field considerably and forces Flacco to think twice. I didn't like that call. And considering his history, he was very quiet in this game.

Penalties. A lot of them. I really have nothing to say. But nearly 100 yards in penalties? Thank God the Rats had as many too, or this game would have went downhill fast.

Jeff Reed. Everyone's gonna place the blame on him, which is somewhat deserved. 6 points against the Rats is a big deal. Especially when the offense was playing like trash. Granted, though, conditions weren't favorable.

Charlie should have ran for the first on the INT to Lewis.

It seemed like we were to focused on trying to force big splash plays. Which I understand that in a game like this, would break it open. But you gotta set it up first. After our initial success early, that just didn't happen. Closest one was to Wallace, but he couldn't hang on.

Frickin Oher! I don't know where Ed Hoculi left his contacts, but that was just pitiful. The dude was literally jumping backward before the snap.


A few nice things:

Mendenhall. Two touchdowns and 80 yards against a fired up Ravens D spells a good game. He seemed about ready to spring a few runs, but the blocking just wasn't there. Good effort by him today.

We're still 3-1. The sky isn't falling. And we have an extra week for Ben to get back into the mix. 3-1 is what most of us hoped for. It just hurts to get that one L against Baltimore. Close game. Tough loss.

This was a pull-your-hair-out type of loss.

I agree with pretty much everything you say. Charlie should have ran to the sidelines on that last play for sure. At least if he doesn't get the 1st he still stops the clock. Right, it wasn't like it was 4th down or anything.

Game Plan, I think they were just afraid to throw any out routes at all, for some reason, I'm guessing maybe Charlie can't make that throw on a rope and the called plays as if in fear of a pick 6 all day long.

I also agree, blizting Troy was a Huge Gamble on that last play that cost us big time. If he's back there, that inside lane isn't open and he may even be in position to intercept that pass when McFadden lets Housh to the inside on the pump fake. But that's the risk Reward situation with Troy.

solardave
10-03-2010, 03:40 PM
I agree 100%. Flacco is pretty much underrated by Steelers fans and I think they got a heapin' spoonful today on how talented this young man really is.

I was very disappointed in the lack of a pass rush overall. Flacco had all damned day to throw for the most part. :doh:

I'm really not upset about this loss at all. We played a team who is right on par with us (with a healthy Ben) and we almost beat them with our 4th stringer behind center. I'm listening to the 3 Stooges + Coach Cowher and they are stressing how VITAL Ben is to this team. I don't think a one of us would disagree . . . . well . . . except cold-hard-steel. ;) :heh:

We're 3-1 going into the bye with our 2 time SB winning, franchise QB coming back against the Browns in Week #5. We are gonna be just FINE! :thumbsup:

I don't think we under rate Flacco. We normally kick his ass and today we didn't. He's just average when you pressure him and as I said we didn't. Any decent QB playing in the NFL today can complete passes to wide open recievers when they have all day to throw the ball.

Burghfan58
10-03-2010, 03:41 PM
i remember one specifically that one jumped on a 3rd down and they got the first down....was in the 4th with about 4-5 min left.

i thought the officiating was poor in this one, but what can ya do

Yes I know the one your talking about. Seems whenever this officiating crew does a game there are controvercial calls. But the Steelers did enough to lose this one on their own. Reed makes the field goals it's a different outcome.

Butch
10-03-2010, 03:42 PM
You were not the only one. I thought Oher started early at least 4 times that weren't called, and once on the final drive.

How bout the penalty they were gonna call on us and it was eventually waved off, or the acting job that got the flag early as well. The officials were definitely one sided today. Again that's not an excuse we still coulda and shoulda won but it still Urks me.

Dodt
10-03-2010, 03:47 PM
yeah i 'm a bit ticked at jeff but hey do you think that danny could of made those kicks?

steelerdude15
10-03-2010, 03:50 PM
Well, I'm satisfied with a 3-1 record. Yes it would be nice to be 4-0, but we can't win them all. Just remember, we play them one more time and boy, would it be a good feeling if we beat the Ravens in Baltimore, that would be a nice punch in the mouth. Overall we were outplayed, but picked up our game in the second half, especially in the fourth quarter. What also hurt us was the penalties, all these dumb and pointless penalties that should have never happened. At least were going into a bye this upcoming week and they can start to focus on working with Ben and reducing the penalties. Kudos to Mendy and Willie Gay for solid play today. That one drive was great which gave us another touchdown, so kudos to Charlie. This was going to be a tough game and we knew that, but now its time for our leader to come back.

X-Terminator
10-03-2010, 03:51 PM
How bout the penalty they were gonna call on us and it was eventually waved off, or the acting job that got the flag early as well. The officials were definitely one sided today. Again that's not an excuse we still coulda and shoulda won but it still Urks me.

I remember those, but hey...I'm not going to blame the officiating for the loss today. The Steelers did plenty on their own to lose this game.

Edman
10-03-2010, 03:53 PM
This ain't Seattle. The Refs didn't cost us this game. We did our part to lose it.

Butch
10-03-2010, 03:55 PM
I remember those, but hey...I'm not going to blame the officiating for the loss today. The Steelers did plenty on their own to lose this game.

I agree we lost it not the officials said as much in my post but it still urks me.

oneforthetoe
10-03-2010, 03:58 PM
This ain't Seattle. The Refs didn't cost us this game. We did our part to lose it.

This

steelpride12
10-03-2010, 04:01 PM
Oh the penalties were very costly to this game believe me you take them away and you would be surprised with the outcome. The Steelers shot themselves in the foot early and often and we payed for it.

HometownGal
10-03-2010, 04:07 PM
Watching Tomlin's PG conference and he said it boiled down to making costly mistakes with all of the dumb penalties. Can't say I disagreed.

HometownGal
10-03-2010, 04:09 PM
yeah i 'm a bit ticked at jeff but hey do you think that danny could of made those kicks?

I'm in agreement. The first kick was simply the ball doing off the upright the wrong way from 49 yards in a bit of a breeze, but the second one was solely on HIM. I'd still take Skippy over any other PK in the league - even after 4 missed FG's this season thus far. If I remember correctly, one of his misses this year was from 50+.

Tomlin cracks me up! :lol: He was asked about Reed's missed FG's and he said "I haven't talked about it with him yet and all I know is that they didn't make it through". :rofl:

BigNastyDefense
10-03-2010, 04:12 PM
The good:

1. We came out of Ben's suspension 3-1. Most people figured the best we could do is 2-2, many pegged us for 1-3.

2. We have a bye week to get Ben back into the swing of things for the game against the Browns. With this loss, the team isn't getting a week off on the bye week, there will be film study and light practices this week.

3. Rashard Mendenhall had a very good game. Two touchdowns and 80 yards rushing on a fired up defense that wanted to prove they weren't soft against the run after what the Browns did to them. Think about what he can do with Ben back, forcing defenses to respect the pass more.

The bad:

1. Play calling on both sides of the ball. They should have let Charlie throw it more on first and second down, and not so many deep shots when he did. Blitzing Polamalu on Douche's game winning TD catch turned out to kill us because if he is in coverage that side of the field is probably taken away. However, if Troy gets the sack or causes the ball to be thrown early or with less accuracy, we win the game.

Funny thing is people bitched last year that Arians threw too much, now he's running it too much. Some people aren't happy if they aren't bitching about something.

2. Batch should have ran for a first down at the sideline on that ball that got picked by Lewis. Nothing but green in front of him and he throws an ill-advised pass right there. He also ran right into Adams when he could have cut inside for a first down earlier in that game. We missed Ben's mobility and extend-the-play ability today.

The ugly:

1. Penalties. We had way too many of them. we have Baltimore four (if not more, I lost count at the bar I was at) first downs due to penalty. That kept us from getting off of the field. We have to cut out the penalties. Good thing we have two weeks to work on it.

2. Jeff Reed's missed field goals. He's still better than anyone we can possibly sign, but he ain't worth the money he wants. Today he may have kicked himself at any chance of more than $2M a year. If he makes those two FG's, we win. If he makes one it goes to overtime and who knows what happens. He hasn't been nearly as clutch as he was before. We lost the Bears game last year on his missed field goals and a game to Cinci last year too. If he does this all year, he won't be kicking anywhere next season.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-03-2010, 04:22 PM
I think it would have been a gritty win if the Steelers could have closed it out after that goal line stand. Kemo and Spaeth take costly penalties, the O line doesnt grind out the tough yards, Charlie Batch........is who we thought he was...a 4th string QB.

Couple that with McFadden giving Housh 2 easy receptions at the end of the game and there is enough blame to go around.

Positive is, that the Steelers probably win that game with Byron Leftwich at QB and for sure with Ben R at QB. Lets just hope Ben can stay away from trouble the next 20 weeks. Basically that loss is on Ben for letting his teamates down in Millidgeville GA.

pepsyman1
10-03-2010, 04:23 PM
Lack of pressure by Woodley and Harrison also played a big role in this loss. 1 Sack I think total for the day. Flacco had way too much time to pick apart the defense with those dang out routes he tossed all day long.

Stupid Housh getting the Game Winning catch makes me want to puke.

I didn't think the pressure we were putting was that bad...on most of the passing plays the Ravens were keeping extra people in for protection and Flacco was getting the ball out pretty quickly. He wasn't holding the ball long at all, but everytime he dropped back in the middle of the field, he had a receiver open...even when they only had 3 total targets downfield and we were dropping 7 in coverage. Our pass coverage has to be tighter.

Craic
10-03-2010, 05:31 PM
I think it would have been a gritty win if the Steelers could have closed it out after that goal line stand. Kemo and Spaeth take costly penalties, the O line doesnt grind out the tough yards, Charlie Batch........is who we thought he was...a 4th string QB.

Couple that with McFadden giving Housh 2 easy receptions at the end of the game and there is enough blame to go around.

Positive is, that the Steelers probably win that game with Byron Leftwich at QB and for sure with Ben R at QB. Lets just hope Ben can stay away from trouble the next 20 weeks. Basically that loss is on Ben for letting his teamates down in Millidgeville GA.

:jawdrop2:

You know, sometimes the truth just hits your square in the face. I didn't think about it at all, until I just read this post. I have to agree.

stillers4me
10-03-2010, 05:33 PM
:jawdrop:

You know, sometimes the truth just hits your square in the face. I didn't think about it at all, until I just read this post. I have to agree.

That's just too simplistic. Ben wasn't on the field and it could have just as easily have been due to injury instead of his hormones.

The Steelers that were on the field left opportunity after opportunity to put that game away, so the fault lies with THEM.

Craic
10-03-2010, 05:33 PM
Watching Tomlin's PG conference and he said it boiled down to making costly mistakes with all of the dumb penalties. Can't say I disagreed.

In the end, I agree, that is what lost it for us today. However, I also have to say, that today the Ravens were the better team. They seemed to play just a tad better on both Defense and Offense.

Craic
10-03-2010, 05:38 PM
That's just too simplistic. Ben wasn't on the field and it could have just as easily have been due to injury instead of his hormones.

The Steelers that were on the field left opportunity after opportunity to put that game away, so the fault lies with THEM.

No, I think his point, and I would agree with him completely, is that the talent level between the two QB's is the difference in the game. Had Ben not gotten himself suspended, this is probably a win for us. The fact that it WASNT because of injury, but rather hormones, is why I think El-Gonz placed it on Ben.

As far as the game itself goes, there are a number of places that we should have played just a bit better, and could have won the game. But the difference is, the margin of error is much smaller without Ben and thus, a loss instead of a win... a loss that is in the margin of error when Ben is playing... and would prob. be a win.

tube517
10-03-2010, 05:50 PM
The good:

1. We came out of Ben's suspension 3-1. Most people figured the best we could do is 2-2, many pegged us for 1-3.

2. We have a bye week to get Ben back into the swing of things for the game against the Browns. With this loss, the team isn't getting a week off on the bye week, there will be film study and light practices this week.

3. Rashard Mendenhall had a very good game. Two touchdowns and 80 yards rushing on a fired up defense that wanted to prove they weren't soft against the run after what the Browns did to them. Think about what he can do with Ben back, forcing defenses to respect the pass more.

The bad:

1. Play calling on both sides of the ball. They should have let Charlie throw it more on first and second down, and not so many deep shots when he did. Blitzing Polamalu on Douche's game winning TD catch turned out to kill us because if he is in coverage that side of the field is probably taken away. However, if Troy gets the sack or causes the ball to be thrown early or with less accuracy, we win the game.

Funny thing is people bitched last year that Arians threw too much, now he's running it too much. Some people aren't happy if they aren't bitching about something.



I have no beef with running the ball. Arians was relying too much on trying to get a big play. If they were as patient as they were in that long TD Drive earlier in the 2nd half, they may have had more success.

Moose
10-03-2010, 05:56 PM
I'm still crying in my beer...and vodka.....and tequilla....ugh, nothing seems to work !! It just didn't look like Steeler football today, sure hope this division game doesn't come back and bite us later........talk about bite....." Hey MAR, how ya' doin ? "

Craic
10-03-2010, 06:00 PM
I have no beef with running the ball. Arians was relying too much on trying to get a big play. If they were as patient as they were in that long TD Drive earlier in the 2nd half, they may have had more success.

I absolutely have to disagree with you. Arians was NOT relying on the big play. Those deep shots down the field would have been nice if they hit, but in reality, they did the job they were supposed to do. They kept the safeties honest, allowing Mendy to pop 8, 9, 10 yard runs. Often, deep bombs aren't about connecting for TD's, its about loosing the defense.

Craic
10-03-2010, 06:03 PM
I'm still crying in my beer...and vodka.....and tequilla....ugh, nothing seems to work !! It just didn't look like Steeler football today, sure hope this division game doesn't come back and bite us later........talk about bite....." Hey MAR, how ya' doin ? "

:huh: It looked EXACTLY like Steelers football today. Everyone wanted us to run, run, run, run, and that is what we did. Mendy had 25 carries for 79 yards. Just over a 3 yard average. The pass was used to complement the run, not the run for the pass. This is EXACTLY STEELERS FOOTBALL, and it failed... again. At least this time, it was just a reg. season game and not an AFCCG.

I look forward to Ben coming back, when we can actually throw the ball a bit more, and be more balanced.

Dino 6 Rings
10-03-2010, 06:09 PM
:huh: It looked EXACTLY like Steelers football today. Everyone wanted us to run, run, run, run, and that is what we did. Mendy had 25 carries for 79 yards. Just over a 3 yard average. The pass was used to complement the run, not the run for the pass. This is EXACTLY STEELERS FOOTBALL, and it failed... again. At least this time, it was just a reg. season game and not an AFCCG.

I look forward to Ben coming back, when we can actually throw the ball a bit more, and be more balanced.

100 Yards in penalities isn't what I think of when I think "steelers football"

0 Points off turnovers isn't exactly Steelers Football.

Allowing a last minute TD when up by 4 points isn't exactly what comes to mind when I think "Steelers Football"

VTsteel
10-03-2010, 06:30 PM
I tried to post earlier - but just couldn't bring myself to do it - I think I've calmed down enough to address this.

I am very disapointed with our intenstity on the last defensive stand (read: lay down). It is so frustrating to see that crap. I love this years version of Lebeau's defensive scheme - well, For 58 minutes of every game I love what I see . . . however, those last two minutes of both this game and the Titans game upset me. We can not keep being so SOFT in the last two minutes. Ben or not, if this crap keeps up we will be in big trouble. Close that sh!t out! Damn


:mad2:

stillers4me
10-03-2010, 07:57 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs692.snc4/63265_143724815672730_102132016498677_224181_13839 00_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=63799&id=102132016498677)

Craic
10-03-2010, 08:25 PM
Allowing a last minute TD when up by 4 points isn't exactly what comes to mind when I think "Steelers Football"

Don't know why not. Going back to 1996, almost every year, there are anywhere from 3-6 games a year which the Steelers give up fourth quarter points to lose or to then have to come back and score AGAIN to win. Really, I guess it is the Steelers way.

Dino 6 Rings
10-03-2010, 08:55 PM
Don't know why not. Going back to 1996, almost every year, there are anywhere from 3-6 games a year which the Steelers give up fourth quarter points to lose or to then have to come back and score AGAIN to win. Really, I guess it is the Steelers way.

interesting...96 eh? 3-6 a year...I wonder if I can disprove or prove that with some stats and breakdowns of each game over 14 years...

Wallace108
10-03-2010, 09:10 PM
Well, here's the bottom line:

Poor playcalling on both sides of the ball.
Poor execution.
Too many penalties, and at the worst possible times.
Missed FGs.

Add it all up, and it equals a well-deserved loss.

This pretty much sums up exactly how I feel. :doh:

HometownGal
10-03-2010, 09:31 PM
Allowing a last minute TD when up by 4 points isn't exactly what comes to mind when I think "Steelers Football"

It was last season.

The sky is not falling and life will go on. I'm quite pleased with the 3-1 start considering both our 2nd and 3rd string QB's went down and am already looking forward to the Browns game and Big Ben's season debut! :yay3:

HometownGal
10-03-2010, 09:35 PM
However, I also have to say, that today the Ravens were the better team. They seemed to play just a tad better on both Defense and Offense.

I would hope so, at least offensively, as they had their #1 QB in and he proved what I've felt all along. Joe Flacco is the real deal and is developing into a darned good QB.

In the end - the Ravens didn't beat us. We beat ourselves.

JonM229
10-03-2010, 09:39 PM
I would hope so, at least offensively, as they had their #1 QB in and he proved what I've felt all along. Joe Flacco is the real deal and is developing into a darned good QB.

In the end - the Ravens didn't beat us. We beat ourselves.

WRONG!! We beat you guys

Edman
10-03-2010, 09:42 PM
WRONG!! We beat you guys

Steelers were sloppy all day and it still took a last minute TD for you guys to win.

Yeah, I think we beat ourselves. Congrats on a good game, but don't get TOO big on it.

Craic
10-03-2010, 09:44 PM
interesting...96 eh? 3-6 a year...I wonder if I can disprove or prove that with some stats and breakdowns of each game over 14 years...
3-6 almost every year.

And actually, I was doing that very thing... when I hit the stupid button on the side of my mouse and changed screens losing everything I typed. :doh:

Bluecoat96
10-03-2010, 09:53 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs692.snc4/63265_143724815672730_102132016498677_224181_13839 00_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=63799&id=102132016498677)

This is AWESOME!!! :lol:

Craic
10-03-2010, 09:54 PM
It was last season.

The sky is not falling and life will go on. I'm quite pleased with the 3-1 start considering both our 2nd and 3rd string QB's went down and am already looking forward to the Browns game and Big Ben's season debut! :yay3:

Exactly. Coming out of the first of this two season schedule (Pre-Ben and Ben Season) 3-1 is quite significant. I still can't get over the fact that we lost to a division rival. But in any event, We gave ourselves some breathing room. The Ravens won't go 15-1, nor 14-2 (assuming a loss against us next time). We still have both games against Cincy. So we can afford a few growing pains-Ben getting used to receivers, true game speed, etc.

In all honesty, I had us losing one or two games on account of Pouncy this year. Not because I didn't like the kid, but a ROOKIE CENTER- I thought would cost us at least once (though I thought it'd be worth the price to pay, as his blocking will probably help win us a couple games). Turns out, I doubt that is going to be the case.

Last year, we missed the playoffs by tie-breaker at 9-7. I see us cutting winning at LEAST 3 more games than last year. 12-4 will put us in the playoffs. 13-3 will absolutely win the division. We have a two game margin of error over the next 12 games. Not a problem!

Craic
10-03-2010, 09:57 PM
Steelers were sloppy all day and it still took a last minute TD for you guys to win.

Yeah, I think we beat ourselves. Congrats on a good game, but don't get TOO big on it.

Actually, I gotta agree with him. Ravens were sloppy too. They took some bad penalties. We were missing Ben, but they were missing Ed Reed, and didn't having their RB stable up to speed due to injury. So all in all, we were playing on level ground... and in the end, they came up better than us today. Their offense found a way to sustain two drives against us... maybe even three. They are the first team to score a TD against us outside of Prevent/Junktime defense. Give em credit. They played well... and fueled Ben to earn that victory back in their stadium next time.

Dino 6 Rings
10-03-2010, 10:09 PM
3-6 almost every year.

And actually, I was doing that very thing... when I hit the stupid button on the side of my mouse and changed screens losing everything I typed. :doh:

Just do from 2003 on.

'96
@ Houston, gave up 14 4th quarter points to lose.
@ Atlanta, gave up 7 points in the 4th, kicked a FG to win 20-17
@ Cincy, Tied 24 going into the 4th, gave up 10 points to lose 34-24

finished 10-6 with a loss in the 2nd round of the playoffs. All other games were already decided one way or the other going into the 4th.

'97
vs Washington, trailing 13-7 going into the 4th. Score 7 and win the game 14-13
@Jacksonville, Leading 21-20 in the 4th, give up 10 points to lose 30-21
@ Baltimore, trailing 24-21 going into the 4th, Score 14, Give up 8, get 7, give up safety to win 42-34.
vs Colts, Leading 17-13 going into the 4th, get 7, up 24-13, give up FG, give up TD, prevent 2 point conversion to hold on to win 24-22
vs Jags, losing 10-7 going into the 4th, Get TD, up 14-10, give up 7. Get FG force OT, get TD in OT to win 23-17.
@ ARizona, 17-17 in the 4th. Got 3, gave up 3, won in OT with Bettis TD.
@ Patriots, down 14-10 into the 4th. Got 3, gave up 7, Got 8, won in OT 24-21
finished 11-5 lost to Denver in the Title game, they were up 10 at halftime, 24-14, we lost 24-21.

'98
@ Cincy, Leading 17-12 into the 4th Gave up TD (2 point failed) Got FG to go up 20-18,Gave up TD lost 25-20.
@ Tennessee, up 14-13 into the 4th, gave up 3, then Turnover TD. lost 23-14.
@ Detroit (remember this one?) 13-13 into the 4th, Tied 16-16 into OT, lost 19-16 when they got the coin flip wrong.
vs Bengals, took a 24-22 lead in the 4th. Gave up FG to lose 25-24.
Finished 7-9 No Playoffs

'99
@Balt. Lead 17-10 into the 4th. Gave up 3, got 3, Gave up 7 tied at 20, got FG to win 23-20
@Cleveland, Lead 15-7 in the 4th, gave up TD, stopped 2 point attempt, gave up last second FG to lose to the first year back Browns 16-15. I remember this one vividly.
Finished 6-10 no Playoffs.

2000
@Cleveland. Up 20-17 into the 4th, gave up 2 FGs to lose 23-20
vs Titans, tied it at 13 in the 4th, gave up FG, Got TD, Gave up TD to lose 23-20.
@ Titans, (almost miss playing them 2 times a year) took 7-6 lead in the 4th, gave up FG to lose 9-7.
vs Eagles, took 10 point lead in the 4th, gave up TD, gave up FG, lost in OT by FG 26-23.
Finished 9-7 no Playoffs (Fire Cowher chants start in the Burgh after missing playoffs 3 years in a row.

2001
vs Ravens. Lead 10-7 into the 4th, gave up 2 FGs lost 13-10.
@ Cincy. Leading 23-10 into the 4th, gave up 2 Tds, Once miss on the extra point, tied 23-23 into OT, lost 26-23 on FG.

2002
vs Raiders Losing into the 4th 20-17, gave up 10 more points to lose 30-17.
vs Browns, tied 6-6 into the 4th, gave up 7, got 7, won by 3 in OT.
vs Falcons, Leading 34-17 in the 4th, gave up TD, FG, TD, to TIE in OT 34-34.
vs Bengals, Leading 20-14 into the 4th, gave up TD, got FG and TD (failed PAT) to win 29-21
@ Jags, Up 22-10 in the 4th, gave up TD, Got FG, Gave up TD but PAT Failed for Steeler win 25-23.
vs Ravens, down 31-20 in the 4th, Steelers got 2 TDS to win 34-31
vs Browns in Playoffs (memorable game) Down 27-14, Got 7, 27-21, gave up TD, PAT Failed, 33-21, Got TD 33-28, got TD +2 won 36-33.
@ Titans Playoffs, Tied it 28-28 in 4th, took 31-28 Lead, gave up FG, Tied in OT 31, gave up FG in OT to lose 34-31.

Dino 6 Rings
10-03-2010, 10:11 PM
I can do the rest but its bedtime and stuff....

Craic
10-03-2010, 10:33 PM
I can do the rest but its bedtime and stuff....

LOL. See if I can get it done. Though I am nodding off fast myself.

Craic
10-03-2010, 11:45 PM
Just do from 2003 on.

'96
@ Houston, gave up 14 4th quarter points to lose.
@ Atlanta, gave up 7 points in the 4th, kicked a FG to win 20-17
@ Cincy, Tied 24 going into the 4th, gave up 10 points to lose 34-24

finished 10-6 with a loss in the 2nd round of the playoffs. All other games were already decided one way or the other going into the 4th.

'97
vs Washington, trailing 13-7 going into the 4th. Score 7 and win the game 14-13
@Jacksonville, Leading 21-20 in the 4th, give up 10 points to lose 30-21
@ Baltimore, trailing 24-21 going into the 4th, Score 14, Give up 8, get 7, give up safety to win 42-34.
vs Colts, Leading 17-13 going into the 4th, get 7, up 24-13, give up FG, give up TD, prevent 2 point conversion to hold on to win 24-22
vs Jags, losing 10-7 going into the 4th, Get TD, up 14-10, give up 7. Get FG force OT, get TD in OT to win 23-17.
@ ARizona, 17-17 in the 4th. Got 3, gave up 3, won in OT with Bettis TD.
@ Patriots, down 14-10 into the 4th. Got 3, gave up 7, Got 8, won in OT 24-21
finished 11-5 lost to Denver in the Title game, they were up 10 at halftime, 24-14, we lost 24-21.

'98
@ Cincy, Leading 17-12 into the 4th Gave up TD (2 point failed) Got FG to go up 20-18,Gave up TD lost 25-20.
@ Tennessee, up 14-13 into the 4th, gave up 3, then Turnover TD. lost 23-14.
@ Detroit (remember this one?) 13-13 into the 4th, Tied 16-16 into OT, lost 19-16 when they got the coin flip wrong.
vs Bengals, took a 24-22 lead in the 4th. Gave up FG to lose 25-24.
Finished 7-9 No Playoffs

'99
@Balt. Lead 17-10 into the 4th. Gave up 3, got 3, Gave up 7 tied at 20, got FG to win 23-20
@Cleveland, Lead 15-7 in the 4th, gave up TD, stopped 2 point attempt, gave up last second FG to lose to the first year back Browns 16-15. I remember this one vividly.
Finished 6-10 no Playoffs.

2000
@Cleveland. Up 20-17 into the 4th, gave up 2 FGs to lose 23-20
vs Titans, tied it at 13 in the 4th, gave up FG, Got TD, Gave up TD to lose 23-20.
@ Titans, (almost miss playing them 2 times a year) took 7-6 lead in the 4th, gave up FG to lose 9-7.
vs Eagles, took 10 point lead in the 4th, gave up TD, gave up FG, lost in OT by FG 26-23.
Finished 9-7 no Playoffs (Fire Cowher chants start in the Burgh after missing playoffs 3 years in a row.

2001
vs Ravens. Lead 10-7 into the 4th, gave up 2 FGs lost 13-10.
@ Cincy. Leading 23-10 into the 4th, gave up 2 Tds, Once miss on the extra point, tied 23-23 into OT, lost 26-23 on FG.

2002
vs Raiders Losing into the 4th 20-17, gave up 10 more points to lose 30-17.
vs Browns, tied 6-6 into the 4th, gave up 7, got 7, won by 3 in OT.
vs Falcons, Leading 34-17 in the 4th, gave up TD, FG, TD, to TIE in OT 34-34.
vs Bengals, Leading 20-14 into the 4th, gave up TD, got FG and TD (failed PAT) to win 29-21
@ Jags, Up 22-10 in the 4th, gave up TD, Got FG, Gave up TD but PAT Failed for Steeler win 25-23.
vs Ravens, down 31-20 in the 4th, Steelers got 2 TDS to win 34-31
vs Browns in Playoffs (memorable game) Down 27-14, Got 7, 27-21, gave up TD, PAT Failed, 33-21, Got TD 33-28, got TD +2 won 36-33.
@ Titans Playoffs, Tied it 28-28 in 4th, took 31-28 Lead, gave up FG, Tied in OT 31, gave up FG in OT to lose 34-31.

03
@ Denver, down by 8, we score, two point conv. then give up a field goal to lose (gave up another TD in the 4th as well).
@ Seattle, down by 3 going into the fourth quarter, we give up two TD's to lose 23-16.
vs Cincinnatti, score a TD in 4th to go up 20-17. Cin drives at the end of the game for Td and win, 24-20.
@ Baltimore, headed into the 4th, up by three. Balt. scores a FG to tie, and another to win in OT.

04
vs Oak. Pitt winning 21-10 headed into the 4th. Oak. put up 11 points to tie the game. Steelers win on late 42 yard field goal.
@ Jax. headed into 4th, Steelers up by 3. Allows JAX to drive deep, and Josh Scobee to kick a 36 yard field goal to take lead. Steelers pull out vict. with field goal in the end.
@ Giants. Steelers up by two fourth quarter. Allow Giants to drive and score, Steelers down by 4. We win, on TD late.

05
vs Pats. tied at 20. Brady orchestrates a two minute drive to win, 23-20, with 13 points in the 4th quarter.
@ SD. Steelers up 21-16, allow a 4th Q TD and have to make a 40 yd field goal to win, 24-22.
vs Ravens. up by 7 headed into 4th Q. Allow three sep. drives to end in fieldgoals, losing 19-17. Steeles win with last field goal 20-19.
Playoffs-Colts. up 21-3 in fourth, Colts score 15 points, and almost won the game on the JB fumble that I STILL get pains in my chest from when I think about it.

06
vs Cincy, up by 3 headed into fourth, they drop two touchdowns on us and we lose the game, 28-20.
@ Jax, down by 3 headed into 4th. Put together 2 more drives into FG territory and we lose, 9-0
@ Cincy, up by four, Cincy drops a TD on us to go up by 3. Reed evens it up, and Holmes wins it in OT.

07
@ AZ. Steelers down by 7 headed into fourth, AZ returns a punt, AND drop a TD on us. We score tomake it look good. But it's not. 21-17.
@ Denver. Steelers score 14 points to tie it up. Denver drives and wins on fieldgoal.
@ Jets. Up by 3, Steeles allow two drives ending in two fieldgoals... last in OT. for the loss. 19-16.
vs Jax. Steelers tie up game in 4th. Jax drives for winning Td. 29-22.
PLAYOFFS vs. Jax. Down by 18 points, Steelers put up 19 points, only to lose the game on a 25 yard field goal late in the game.

08
vs. Giants. Steelers winning by 5, Giants put up 10 offensive points including a late TD to win 21-14.
vs Colts. Steelers up by 3 in fourth, Indy drives and scores late TD winning game.
vs. SD. up by 1 point in fourth, SD scores FG to go up by 2. Steelers put up late field goal to win.
@ Tennessee. Up by 4 points in third quarter, Titans score 14 points to put game out of reach (7 in 3rd and 7 in fourth, not count the INT for a TD by Titans).
PLAYOFFS. vs SD. Up by 18, Steelers D allowed 14 points to make a brutal 3rd quarter into a palatble 4th quarter... 308 yards passing by SD., much of which was in the fourth quarter.
PLAYOFFS. vs Ravens. Steelers up by 9 headed into 4th. Ravens score to cut difference to 2 points. Troy P. intercepts and runs for a TD. However, Ravens WERE driving to get the lead, after being down 9 points.
SUPERBOWL. vs Cards. Steelers up 20-7, Cards drive twice take lead 23-20 (safety really doesn't mean anything here. Still had the lead). Ben makes his spectacular pass to save the day, and the SB.

09.
vs Ten. Steelers tied at 7., Ten hits a field goal. Reed has to hit last second FG for tie and again in OT for win.
@ Chi. Up by 7 headed into 4th, Steelers allow 10 points in 4th to lose, 17-14.
vs SD. Up by 21 points, Steelers D allow 14 points for SD to draw within 1 TD. SD loses by 10.
vs. Bengals. Two cincy field goals to break a tie and win by 6th... in the fourth quarter.
@ KC. Field goal to tie late in fourth, field goal to win in OT (22 yard, THAT is how close we let them drive).
@ Ravens, up by 3 in 4th, allow a FG to tie, and another to win.
vs Raiders, allow 3 TD's to our two in fourth quarter.. the RAIDERS march up and down the field to win by 3.
vs GB, Steelers D gave up the lead TWICE to GB before our Offense sealed it witha TD.
@ Miami, up by 17, D allows 14 points to bring the game within 3 before Reed makes one and the game ends, 30-24.

Craic
10-03-2010, 11:47 PM
Allowing a last minute TD when up by 4 points isn't exactly what comes to mind when I think "Steelers Football"

So, while not necessarily last minute, or exactly four points, I think it is quite common for the STeelers to allow fourth quarter comebacks.

That needs to be fixed.. and it is long term problem here seemingly.

Merchant
10-03-2010, 11:53 PM
...How do you guys remember this stuff? LOL

Merchant
10-03-2010, 11:54 PM
This is AWESOME!!! :lol:

This made my night ahahaha

Craic
10-04-2010, 01:06 AM
...How do you guys remember this stuff? LOL

Well, I am not sure about 6 Rings, but for me, I go and look at stats sites. Then, when reading them and the specific games, it rings bells in my memory at times.

Craic
10-04-2010, 01:09 AM
Here is what I really want to know...

How is this loss going to affect our Power Ranking and BCS bid?










(sorry FS :chuckle:)

stlrtruck
10-04-2010, 06:17 AM
I'm going to do my best Ray-Ray impersonation:



They didn't beat us today, you know what I'm sayin', we beat ourselves, I mean come on man the offensive line making false starts in the last two minutes! Come on man you're a professional you've got to do better. And then us playing a prevent defense! Man that's some BS right there man, you know what I'm sayin'. Our defense beat them all game long and then the refs gotta make some BS calls like that in a game like this. Come on man, that's not football.


Seriously, congrats to the ravens. They won the game and took advantage of field position. It's what teams are suppose to do. Yeah I could point out a few things I didn't like on the field, especially the end result. But we are 3-1, and we get the bye week. Time to recoup, reload, and move forward.

tube517
10-04-2010, 11:35 AM
Might as well go back to 1994-95 AFCC vs SD......13-3 lead only to blow it and lose 17-13. Making Stan Humpries to Alfred Pupunu and Tony Martin look like Montana to Rice and Taylor.
The next year vs Indy. Almost lost on a Hail Mary from John Harbaughs brother. Barely won.

Too much of a pattern here in the Post Noll era.


So, while not necessarily last minute, or exactly four points, I think it is quite common for the STeelers to allow fourth quarter comebacks.

That needs to be fixed.. and it is long term problem here seemingly.