Lamar Jackson is Kordell Stewart with more media coverage. Change my mind

[st33lersguy]

Seriously. It's amazing the ridiculous amount of media hype he gets. Unanimous mvp from simply running through wide open holes was a joke. Should be noted that Baltimore was ranked behind the bears in terms of passing yards and Baltimore didn't win a game after trailing by 7. Endless media attention from the media being dazzled by his ability to run fast

[polamalubeast]

I 100% disagree.

The Ravens were low in passing yards because of the same reason that the steelers in 2004 and 2005 ... They were last in pass attempts ... Lamar still led the league in TD pass, something Kordell has never been close to doing .... The Ravens have also been ahead in the scoreboard almost for the entire season, so very few chance of making a huge comeback when this is the case.

Jackson is a special player .... The Ravens played for .500 since 2013 before his first start ... since his first start, the ravens are 19-3 in the regular season with him as starter

And finally, the biggest difference between Lamar and Kordell is that Lamar saved the job of their head coach, John Harbaugh ... In the case of Kordell, Cowher was almost fired because of Kordell.

[Craic]

Let's take the last five QB MVPs, and compare the average of their performances with Jackson's 2019 performance.
Lamar Jackson 2019 stats.




Year
G
GS
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Rate
4QC
GWD
AV


Jackson
2019*+
15
15
265
401
66.1
3127
36
9.0
6
1.5
113.3
1
2
25


Avg. MVP
----
16
16
355
542
65.5
4567
38.6
7.12
8.4
1.56
109
1.8
2.2
20.6





Patrick Mahomes 2018 stats.


Year
G
GS
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Rate
4QC
GWD
AV


2018*+
16
16
383
580
66.0
5097
50
8.6
12
2.1
113.8
2
2
22





Tom Brady 2017 stats.


Year
G
GS
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Rate
4QC
GWD
AV


2017*+
16
16
385
581
66.3
4577
32
5.5
8
1.4
102.8
2
2
19





Matt Ryan 2016 stats.


Year
G
GS
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Rate
4QC
GWD
AV


2016*+
16
16
373
534
69.9
4944
38
7.1
7
1.3
117.1
1
2
21





Cam Newton 2015 stats.


Year
G
GS
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Rate
4QC
GWD
AV


2015*+
16
16
296
495
59.8
3837
35
7.1
10
2.0
99.4
3
4
20





Aaron Rodgers 2014 stats.


Year
G
GS
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Rate
4QC
GWD
AV


2014*+
16
16
341
520
65.6
4381
38
7.3
5
1.0
112.2
1
1
21



Provided by Pro-Football-Reference.com (https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)

Generated 6/27/2020.


Analysis. he threw considerable less passages, however, he was a hair more accurate than the average MVP QB over the last five years. He through for less yards as well, but remember the Ravens are still a very strong run team. The passing TD numbers are misleading because of Mahomes's 50 TDs. It is so far out of the norm that it throws the averages off. Without it, the average is 35.75 TDs, and Jackson threw for 36. Also, note the interception, and the interception percent. Both are lower (although the INT percent is just a hair lower) than the average MVP. The QB rates also telling. In fact, is rate is only .5 points lower than the highest (Mahomes at 113.8). While he has a lower comeback percent, he has just a slightly lower game winning drive percent, which is more important, in my opinion. Finally, the AV (average value as computed by PFR). He has a higher AV than anyone else on the list.

BTW, Kordell Stewart, taking his best numbers the years he started all season, had a 60.2 completion percentage, 21 TDs for a 4.8 TD percent, a 2.5 INT percent, and his best QB rate was 81.7. He had four 4th Q comebacks and 5 GWDs. So, that's better, but his best AV was 16, and that's the highest he ever reached. Those numbers are tremendously lower than the MVPs of that era. For instance, Kurt Warner, who was MVP twice around Kordell's time, is comparable to the MVP numbers except his INTs were higher. His TDs were lower in his 2001 year but in 1991, he hit 41 TDs with a 2.6 INT average. Favre, who was MVP 3 times, also has comparable numbers ecxept for a little lower TD percent and lower AV. That means Kordell Stewart, while playing in an era less conducive to passing, still played at a time when the numbers reached by MVP QBs were almost equal to today's QBs.

Summary: In Lamar Jackson's MVP year, according to the stats, he was as accurate a passer as the average MVP, hits the average TD percent almost dead on without Mahomes's outlier that artificially distorts the percentage, is just as good as the other MVPs at protecting the football, was a tad above average in QB rating, and was more important to his team than any other player (AV). When compared with Kordell Stewart's best numbers across all his years starting for a season, Stewart consistently ranked very low against the MVP QBs, QBs whose numbers were very close to today's MVP Quarterbacks.

Conclusion: Comparing Jackson to Stewart is like comparing a model rocket to High Power Rocketry. Sure, they have similarities, but similarities does not equal similar, and similar does not equal is as in A is B. Consequently, Lamar Jackson is not Kordell Stewart, with or without media coverage. he is a much better player with a more accurate arm.

[st33lersguy]

The Tennessee playoff game last year showed that the Ravens could be beat by simply forcing Jackson to win by throwing the ball. It should also be noted that John Harbaugh and OC Greg Roman have carefully constructed an offensive system solely suited to Jackson's strength as a fast guy out of necessity as his limitations as a passer limit the offense. This combined with one of the elite O-lines helped him continue to run and cover up Jackson's limitations as a thrower. Until Jackson can show he can throw the ball consistently and win with his arm the Ravens will continue to fail in the postseason with him at QB

[polamalubeast]

Their playoffs loss was because they were horrible in situation football(like in the red zone or in fourth down and 1)...Nothing to do with Jackson throwing the ball...Also their defense could not stop Henry.

Also,this is important for every player that their coach play to the players strength...The strength of Jackson are the only reason why they had the best running game in the NFL since 1978 and they were by far the best team in the NFL in time of possession.First in points per game too.

BTW,I think in the NFL of today,QB like Vick and Kordell would been also a superstar in a good situation.

[43Hitman]

Steeler fans: Get pissed when they perceive that the coaches aren't calling plays to the players strengths.

Steeler fans: Down play players abilities on other teams when coaches call plays to their strengths.

[Craic]

Steeler fans: Get pissed when they perceive that the coaches aren't calling plays to the players strengths.

Steeler fans: Down play players abilities on other teams when coaches call plays to their strengths.

https://giphy.com/gifs/fs0idQwq7jQAZKfqfmhttps://media.giphy.com/media/fs0idQwq7jQAZKfqfm/giphy.gif

[polamalubeast]

Many Steelers fan hates running QB so much because of what happen with Kordell.

[86WARD]

Many Steelers fan hates running QB so much because of what happen with Kordell.

Or what DIDN'T happen with Kordell...

[Mojouw]

Steeler fans: Get pissed when they perceive that the coaches aren't calling plays to the players strengths.

Steeler fans: Down play players abilities on other teams when coaches call plays to their strengths.

Nailed it.

[fansince'76]

Many Steelers fan hates running QB so much because of what happen with Kordell.

Well that, and running QBs tend to suck as passers at the NFL level.

Personally, I lump Jackson in with Cam Newton at this point.

[FrancoLambert]

I just hope it turns out to be true.

[Craic]

Personally, I lump Jackson in with Cam Newton at this point.

Whether I agree or not, that is a fair assessment.

[polamalubeast]

1278380347156131843

[steelreserve]

He's a better passer than Kordell.

What he reminds me of is Colin Kaepernick before the 49ers inexplicably scrapped the read-option offense a season and a half into his career as a starter. Very good in an offense that was designed around his strengths, probably not so good as a "traditional" drop-back passer.

For that matter, a lot of that was the same reason why Kordell struggled as the full-time starter. The biggest part of his success, the element of uncertainty, was completely taken out of the game plan. It would be like having Troy Polamalu line up in the same spot in deep centerfield pass coverage every time. It doesn't work.

Bottom line, Jackson could continue to be good, but it will be interesting to see whether the Ravens keep playing to his strengths. Past history indicates that most teams get spooked before long and turtle up to "protect their investment," thereby ruining their investment by taking away his best weapon. A guy like that, you have to let it ride and take your chances. Sometimes you'll get a bad break abd it'll wind up like RG3, sometimes not. But trying to rein in the offense is just throwing in the towel.

[Steeler-in-west]

I just hope it turns out to be true.

This. More Stewart or RGIII and less Randall Cunningham or Steve Young.

[ALLD]

The person to ask is Coach Cowher. If Cowher starts kissing him, then you know he is Kordell 2.0.

[tube517]

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/127185109_10217622517371728_7215312859444058393_n. jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=hj6cYqe3a00AX90MdeK&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=ee39c64ce0c4a8dc9414b5bfccaaba50&oe=5FE419D4 :chuckle:

[Fire Goodell]

Kordell was better

[polamalubeast]

Kordell was better

no

[Fire Goodell]

no

yea

[polamalubeast]

yea

The biggest difference between Lamar and Kordell is that in 2018,Lamar has saved the job of John Harbaugh....Kordell almost cost the job of Bill Cowher after the 1999 season.

[Mojouw]

The biggest difference between Lamar and Kordell is that in 2018,Lamar has saved the job of John Harbaugh....Kordell almost cost the job of Bill Cowher after the 1999 season.

The biggest difference is that in 1998 NFL coaches still tried to change players to fit syatems. In 2020, coaches actually change systems to fit players.

If Kordell Stewart was drafted into this version of the NFL, he would be far more successful.

[86WARD]

The biggest difference is that in 1998 NFL coaches still tried to change players to fit syatems. In 2020, coaches actually change systems to fit players.

If Kordell Stewart was drafted into this version of the NFL, he would be far more successful.

Agree. Kordell was in the wrong era...and wrong offense.

[cubanstogie]

Kordell didn’t have half the athletic ability Lamar has. Way to soon to count him out. They easily could be 8-2 right now and we wouldn’t be writing him off. Not to mention he knows he needs to and wants to improve and is fairly humble. Unlike Kordell. I think Vick a much better comparison.

[Mojouw]

Kordell didn’t have half the athletic ability Lamar has. Way to soon to count him out. They easily could be 8-2 right now and we wouldn’t be writing him off. Not to mention he knows he needs to and wants to improve and is fairly humble. Unlike Kordell. I think Vick a much better comparison.

Very true. But even Vick in what teams are willing to do now versus then? It looks better. Are guys like Vick, Stewart, young Cunningham etc. Viewed different? I think so. Instead of teams being focused on what they couldn't do, they'd be salivating over what they could do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fansince'76]

Agree. Kordell was in the wrong era...and wrong offense.

...and wrong position. I doubt a change of eras would have solved the little problem he had of being unable to hit the broad side of a barn with a football, or his penchant for throwing it to guys wearing the wrong-colored jerseys, particularly in big games.

The guy just wasn't a NFL QB - then or now.

[teegre]

Kordell might be the most elusive player we’ve ever had. Starting DBs had trouble keeping up with him.

Kordell’s two biggest problems:
-starring down a receiver
-not running when it was beneficial

The last INT in the 1997 AFCCG is a perfect example of both. Charlie Batch could have ran for the 3-yard touchdown. Instead, Kordell locked onto his target, resulting in the LB and the safety to both converge on the receiver (triple-coverage)... leading to the game-losing INT by Kordell.

[Mojouw]

Kordell might be the most elusive player we’ve ever had. Starting DBs had trouble keeping up with him.

Kordell’s two biggest problems:
-starring down a receiver
-not running when it was beneficial

The last INT in the 1997 AFCCG is a perfect example of both. Charlie Batch could have ran for the 3-yard touchdown. Instead, Kordell locked onto his target, resulting in the LB and the safety to both converge on the receiver (triple-coverage)... leading to the game-losing INT by Kordell.

And that was because Stewart was coached in both the NCAA and the NFL to stay in the pocket and "run the offense". Now, he would be encouraged to run. The offense would be simplified and streamlined to hide his flaws. Stewart was a square peg in a round hole. Now, the NCAA and the NFL has finally realized that you will have more success changing the shape of the system rather than way a guy plays in some scenarios.

I am not arguing that Stewart would/could be great or anything. But if he was almost/kinda/sorta a viable starting QB in a system that really didn't cater to his skills...what would he be if he was put in a system that highlighted his positive traits and hid his flaws?

I would have to go back and watch highlights/lowlights...but how much worse of a passer was Stewart than Josh Allen? Just going by college and pro completion percentages...they are a push until this year by Allen. But Allen is only a few percentage points better and plays in a pass wacky era with a system specifically tailored to him.

[cubanstogie]

And that was because Stewart was coached in both the NCAA and the NFL to stay in the pocket and "run the offense". Now, he would be encouraged to run. The offense would be simplified and streamlined to hide his flaws. Stewart was a square peg in a round hole. Now, the NCAA and the NFL has finally realized that you will have more success changing the shape of the system rather than way a guy plays in some scenarios.

I am not arguing that Stewart would/could be great or anything. But if he was almost/kinda/sorta a viable starting QB in a system that really didn't cater to his skills...what would he be if he was put in a system that highlighted his positive traits and hid his flaws?

I would have to go back and watch highlights/lowlights...but how much worse of a passer was Stewart than Josh Allen? Just going by college and pro completion percentages...they are a push until this year by Allen. But Allen is only a few percentage points better and plays in a pass wacky era with a system specifically tailored to him.
I would agree Kordell would be much better at RPO plays than offense he played in. My recollection was he was most successful as Slash and not as QB. Hard for me to be objective because Im not a Kordell fan. My buddy who now works in marketing for NFL team started as a sportscaster 25 plus years ago and to this day says Kordell was cockiest and most arrogant athlete he ever interviewed.

[teegre]

And that was because Stewart was coached in both the NCAA and the NFL to stay in the pocket and "run the offense". Now, he would be encouraged to run. The offense would be simplified and streamlined to hide his flaws. Stewart was a square peg in a round hole. Now, the NCAA and the NFL has finally realized that you will have more success changing the shape of the system rather than way a guy plays in some scenarios.

I am not arguing that Stewart would/could be great or anything. But if he was almost/kinda/sorta a viable starting QB in a system that really didn't cater to his skills...what would he be if he was put in a system that highlighted his positive traits and hid his flaws?

I would have to go back and watch highlights/lowlights...but how much worse of a passer was Stewart than Josh Allen? Just going by college and pro completion percentages...they are a push until this year by Allen. But Allen is only a few percentage points better and plays in a pass wacky era with a system specifically tailored to him.

Ray Sherman told Kordell to stop playing “black”. :scared: Sherman took away Kordell’s best asset (his legs).

[Mojouw]

Ray Sherman told Kordell to stop playing “black”. :scared: Sherman took away Kordell’s best asset (his legs).

Good Lord. That's awful. On both a football and human level.

[pczach]

Ray Sherman told Kordell to stop playing “black”. :scared: Sherman took away Kordell’s best asset (his legs).



Saying bullshit like that to another human being is beyond comprehension.....WTF???

[Six Rings]

Seriously. It's amazing the ridiculous amount of media hype he gets. Unanimous mvp from simply running through wide open holes was a joke. Should be noted that Baltimore was ranked behind the bears in terms of passing yards and Baltimore didn't win a game after trailing by 7. Endless media attention from the media being dazzled by his ability to run fast

I do not recall Kordell throwing his teammates or coaches under the bus.

[Six Rings]

Jackson isn't a passing QB At all. He's on the perfect team for him that runs the ball very well and plays good defense, which allows the Ravens to win with 180 passing yards or so. If Jackson is behind and had to pass, he's an average QB. Jackson takes his WR's out of the game. Given the punishment he takes, I do not he will be be on top of his game for long.

[steel striker]

That throwing motion of his to me is a problem and, he throws too many side-arm passes even when he does not have to.

[st33lersguy]

Yep, a full 2020 season played and this still holds up. He's an electrifying runner with an OC who does great with running QBs. He's not gonna win by passing consistently. Though I do hope he is ok (from the concussion)

[EzraTank]

This post aged very well (because it's true).

[Fire Goodell]

This is why I'm not buying into the hype of it being necessary having a mobile QB to win a championship. Majority of these 'mobile' QB's are right now home watching the playoffs. The only ones left are Mahomes and Allen (I don't know if we can consider Rodgers anymore at his age), and they're still in it not so much due to their running ability, but their ability to sling it

[FrancoLambert]

I just hope it turns out to be true.

Looking good. :heh:

[EzraTank]

This is why I'm not buying into the hype of it being necessary having a mobile QB to win a championship. Majority of these 'mobile' QB's are right now home watching the playoffs. The only ones left are Mahomes and Allen (I don't know if we can consider Rodgers anymore at his age), and they're still in it not so much due to their running ability, but their ability to sling it

I disagree, you do need a "mobile" QB to win today, but a "running" QB (like Lamar) isn't winning you anything. To me Mahomes, Mayfield, Allen and even still Rodgers are mobile enough to scramble and throw on the run accurately. I'd much rather have a QB like them that can sprint out to a side but are STILL looking to throw first and only run (efficiently) when they have to.

[Mojouw]

I disagree, you do need a "mobile" QB to win today, but a "running" QB (like Lamar) isn't winning you anything. To me Mahomes, Mayfield, Allen and even still Rodgers are mobile enough to scramble and throw on the run accurately. I'd much rather have a QB like them that can sprint out to a side but are STILL looking to throw first and only run (efficiently) when they have to.

This! Need to be able to move of the initial set up spot, get to another, and make a play.

[Steeler-in-west]

This guy used to throw accurately while on the run

https://youtu.be/cb1WfQNnnNY

I think he won his last super bowl doing things like this

[st33lersguy]

A mobile QB is important. A QB who is only capable of running the ball and can't throw consistently ain't winning you anything

[EzraTank]

This guy used to throw accurately while on the run

https://youtu.be/cb1WfQNnnNY

I think he won his last super bowl doing things like this

No one is questioning that Ben USED to be able to do that, but he simply cannot anymore. The last Superbowl he won doing that was 13 years ago.