Bob Labriola on Cam,Cowher's QB history

[polamalubeast]

Very interesting article on examples that choosing a QB was not a strong point for Cowher like in 1992,1996,2000 and 2004.He also says it's time to recognize Cam Heyward.

https://www.steelers.com/news/labriola-on-cam-cowher-s-qb-history

[HollywoodSteel]

Love reading that about Cam Heyward.

So glad he’s part of this organization as a player, a leader, and a human being. I’m especially happy that he is now surrounded by super stars, because this defense is gonna be something special and Cam is going to be a huge part of that. We should be talking about TJ and Minkah and even the rising star, Devin Bush. But Cam Hayward is still the leader and heart and soul of this defense.

[Edman]

Cam Heyward was part of a unit who was clearly second fiddle to the Steelers' Killer B Offense for many years. I think that is why he mostly goes unrecognized. 2019 marked a changing of the guard for the Steelers back to the basics. The Defense has all the top talent and runs the show now, even with Ben returning. The accolades will start rolling in for Heyward and the others.

[Six Rings]

Very interesting article on examples that choosing a QB was not a strong point for Cowher like in 1992,1996,2000 and 2004.He also says it's time to recognize Cam Heyward.

https://www.steelers.com/news/labriola-on-cam-cowher-s-qb-history





Hmmmm, Labriola is a good writer, but he's also in Rooney's pocket. It wasn't Bill Cowher fault that Dan Rooney didn't want to re-sign Neil O'Donnell who grew into a competent quarterback who can pass when needed. By doing this, the Steelers Super Bowl window slammed shut.


But to tell the truth, here would be blaming ownership, and that's something Labriola would never do.


Cowher found ways to win with Miller, Tomzack, Graham, Stewart, and Maddox at quarterback, making the playoffs often and even the AFC championship game.

[polamalubeast]

Hmmmm, Labriola is a good writer, but he's also in Rooney's pocket. It wasn't Bill Cowher fault that Dan Rooney didn't want to re-sign Neil O'Donnell who grew into a competent quarterback who can pass when needed. By doing this, the Steelers Super Bowl window slammed shut.


But to tell the truth, here would be blaming ownership, and that's something Labriola would never do.


Cowher found ways to win with Miller, Tomzack, Graham, Stewart, and Maddox at quarterback, making the playoffs often and even the AFC championship game.

Why Rooney would want that Labriola talk about Cowher like that ... Especially this article has nothing to do with Tomlin in this case but rather on Cowher's comments on Winston.

[pczach]

Hmmmm, Labriola is a good writer, but he's also in Rooney's pocket. It wasn't Bill Cowher fault that Dan Rooney didn't want to re-sign Neil O'Donnell who grew into a competent quarterback who can pass when needed. By doing this, the Steelers Super Bowl window slammed shut.


But to tell the truth, here would be blaming ownership, and that's something Labriola would never do.


Cowher found ways to win with Miller, Tomzack, Graham, Stewart, and Maddox at quarterback, making the playoffs often and even the AFC championship game.



At the time, the Jets overpaid for O'Donnell. He wasn't worth that kind of money.

I had no problem with the team letting him go. It just took a long time to get a great replacement when they drafted Ben.

Once again, Cowher didn't want to draft a quarterback in the first round in 2004. Mr. Rooney needed to force Cowher to draft Roethlisberger. It is well documented.

Remember, Cowher wanted Miller, Tomczak, Graham, Stewart, and Maddox as his quarterbacks. He chose to go with budget quarterbacks and stack the rest of the roster. It was his philosophy on how to win.

[Six Rings]

At the time, the Jets overpaid for O'Donnell. He wasn't worth that kind of money.

I had no problem with the team letting him go. It just took a long time to get a great replacement when they drafted Ben.

Once again, Cowher didn't want to draft a quarterback in the first round in 2004. Mr. Rooney needed to force Cowher to draft Roethlisberger. It is well documented.

Remember, Cowher wanted Miller, Tomczak, Graham, Stewart, and Maddox as his quarterbacks. He chose to go with budget quarterbacks and stack the rest of the roster. It was his philosophy on how to win.



Um, the Rooney's were known as cheapskates in the 1990's and were picked apart in free agency. They let their super bowl QB go in his prime. Who does that? IMO Neil was worth 5 million a year back then to the Steelers. 1996-2003....dark times at QB. But Bob won't say that. It's true. The Rooney's started to spend more money once the Heinz field was built.


I don't know what type of draft grade the Steelers had on Drew Brees, but I sure as heck liked him.

It seems like Labriola is taking a shot at Cowher for suggesting Winston should be a Steeler. I'd certainly take him as a back up over Rudy and Duck. Who wouldn't.

[polamalubeast]

Letting go Neil O'Donnell was not a mistake since O'Donnell was not a QB who could step up when it was time and he not make the team better as we saw with the jets, not just in 1996 but in 1997 too with Bill Parcells when the team was better ... 5 million a year at this time was a lot of money

To say that letting go of O'Donnell was a mistake is like saying that the ravens made a mistake of releasing Trent Dilfer after their super bowl in 2000 ... Very hard to be a true contender year after year with a QB like that , especially with a big contract in the salary cap era.

[Six Rings]

Letting go Neil O'Donnell was not a mistake since O'Donnell was not a QB who could step up when it was time and he not make the team better as we saw with the jets, not just in 1996 but in 1997 too with Bill Parcells when the team was better ... 5 million a year at this time was a lot of money

To say that letting go of O'Donnell was a mistake is like saying that the ravens made a mistake of releasing Trent Dilfer after their super bowl in 2000 ... Very hard to be a true contender year after year with a QB like that , especially with a big contract in the salary cap era.

Where was the plan B? Neil had four 4th quarter comeback wins that year of the Super Bowl. Ben himself only did better once in his career. Its was Rooney's money not yours or mine, and by letting O'Donell go, he slammed the door shut on another super bowl, which I think we could have had. The Jets were a bad football team. ( 3-13 ) when the signed O'Donnell. O'Donnell got hurt on his first year with the Jets ( 1996 ), but 8-6 on the Jets in 1997, which says something.

The Ravens let Dilfer go because he wasn't good. In their super bowl year he had 12 TD's 11 INT's.

[polamalubeast]

Where was the plan B? Neil had four 4th quarter comeback wins that year of the Super Bowl. Ben himself only did better once in his career. Its was Rooney's money not yours or mine, and by letting O'Donell go, he slammed the door shut on another super bowl, which I think we could have had. The Jets were a bad football team. ( 3-13 ) when the signed O'Donnell. O'Donnell got hurt on his first year with the Jets ( 1996 ), but 8-6 on the Jets in 1997, which says something.

The Ravens let Dilfer go because he wasn't good. In their super bowl year he had 12 TD's 11 INT's.

Do you know that the NFL has had a salary cap since 1994?

I compare Neil O'Donnell to Alex Smith ... A team can win with him but that limits the team's potential .... We can criticize that the steelers had no plan B (Kordell was their plan B but unfortunately he was even worse in big game) but letting O'Donnell go was not a mistake ... Bill Parcells changed QB after 1997 despite a winning record by O'Donnell.

[teegre]

After Super Bowl XXX, there is no way that a certain “unnamed” QB would have ever played a down again as a Steeler. Period.

As far as the rest goes... read the posts in the other twenty-dozen Cowher threads started this off-season. Here are the words to search for:
-Joe Montana
-Drew Brees
-Shawn Andrews
-as Fan’76 states “Cowher’s philosophy”

[polamalubeast]

After Super Bowl XXX, there is no way that a certain “unnamed” QB would have ever played a down again as a Steeler. Period.

As far as the rest goes... read the posts in the other twenty-dozen Cowher threads started this off-season. Here are the words to search for:
-Joe Montana
-Drew Brees
-Shawn Andrews
-as Fan’76 states “Cowher’s philosophy”

I find a thread on this and it was this one..

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/31516-Mike-Tomlin-and-Ben-and-the-playoffs-Some-interesting-numbers?

I don't know if there are others thread on this in the last few month?

[teegre]

I find a thread on this and it was this one..

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/31516-Mike-Tomlin-and-Ben-and-the-playoffs-Some-interesting-numbers?

I don't know if there are others thread on this in the last few month?

My apologies, beast. I wasn’t referring to you. I was talking to the other guy... who has been bringing up Cowher for a few months now (but, ignoring replies).

I always enjoy the back-&-forth discussions with you. :nod:

[polamalubeast]

My apologies, beast. I wasn’t referring to you. I was talking to the other guy... who has been bringing up Cowher for a few months now (but, ignoring replies).

I always enjoy the back-&-forth discussions with you. :nod:

Don't worry, I knew you weren't talking to me and yes I enjoy talking with you and with others on this board too!

[Mojouw]

Six Rings has a version of history that no one else subscibes to. How can the Rooney's be cheap if the team is always capped out?

Welcome back Pbeast! I have a theory that your long absences are because your a globe trotting secret agent that periodically saves the world James Bond style.

[pczach]

Um, the Rooney's were known as cheapskates in the 1990's and were picked apart in free agency. They let their super bowl QB go in his prime. Who does that? IMO Neil was worth 5 million a year back then to the Steelers. 1996-2003....dark times at QB. But Bob won't say that. It's true. The Rooney's started to spend more money once the Heinz field was built.


I don't know what type of draft grade the Steelers had on Drew Brees, but I sure as heck liked him.

It seems like Labriola is taking a shot at Cowher for suggesting Winston should be a Steeler. I'd certainly take him as a back up over Rudy and Duck. Who wouldn't.




The Steelers have been basically maxing out the salary cap since its inception. I don't understand how they could have spent more money when they really couldn't. They always have minimal room under the cap every year as they spend as much as they can to improve the team.

[Six Rings]

Six Rings has a version of history that no one else subscibes to. How can the Rooney's be cheap if the team is always capped out?

Welcome back Pbeast! I have a theory that your long absences are because your a globe trotting secret agent that periodically saves the world James Bond style.



Sure, if you want to believe that not re-signing O'Donnell was good for our Super Bowl window in the mid to late 1990s, keep living your dream. I won't wake you up.


Stewart submarined the Steelers in the AFC championship game with three interceptions vs. the Broncos if you care to remember. If O'Donnell was the quarterback, the Steelers probably go back to the super bowl. He sucked and was beaten out by the likes of Kent Graham.


But Rooney was too cheap to pay for O'Donnell and it took nearly 10 years to find better.

- - - Updated - - -


The Steelers have been basically maxing out the salary cap since its inception. I don't understand how they could have spent more money when they really couldn't. They always have minimal room under the cap every year as they spend as much as they can to improve the team.

That's not the case. Rooney was tight fisted when if came to money in the early to mid 1990's. This could have happened before some of you were born, so I'm not surprised if you were not aware of it.

If you want an example, read below:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/flashback-steelers-only-spent-131m-for-entire-teams-salary-in-1990/

[polamalubeast]

If it would be Rod Woodson, Kevin Greene or others it would be one thing, but Neil O'Donnell?! ... Please

He was only a game manager at best and the steelers had to pay like a franchise QB to keep him ... The mistake the steelers made at this position was not having a replacement and having had too much confidence in Kordell Stewart , who might have been a star in the NFL now but not in the 1990s.

[Mojouw]

Sure, if you want to believe that not re-signing O'Donnell was good for our Super Bowl window in the mid to late 1990s, keep living your dream. I won't wake you up.


Stewart submarined the Steelers in the AFC championship game with three interceptions vs. the Broncos if you care to remember. If O'Donnell was the quarterback, the Steelers probably go back to the super bowl. He sucked and was beaten out by the likes of Kent Graham.


But Rooney was too cheap to pay for O'Donnell and it took nearly 10 years to find better.

- - - Updated - - -



That's not the case. Rooney was tight fisted when if came to money in the early to mid 1990's. This could have happened before some of you were born, so I'm not surprised if you were not aware of it.

If you want an example, read below:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/flashback-steelers-only-spent-131m-for-entire-teams-salary-in-1990/

I mean we can pretend that your version is a what happened, or we can look at the actual events.

1, Odonnell was signed to one of the largest FA contracts ever handed out. https://vault.si.com/vault/1996/03/11/for-love-of-money-in-rejecting-the-steelers-for-the-jets-neil-odonnell-went-for-gold-instead-of-glory
2. Important to remember that the Steelers were within 1.5 million per year of the Jets offer. At the time, that was salary cap altering money.
3. From the SI article above: "If the Steelers had paid to keep O'Donnell, it would have been next to impossible to keep their defensive core--Brown, Levon Kirkland, Carnell Lake, Greg Lloyd and Woodson--intact."
4. The Odonnell deal was widely panned at the time and is now viewed as one of the worst contracts ever put out there: https://thesportsdrop.com/the-13-worst-free-agent-contracts-in-nfl-history/; https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2016/03/05/neil-odonnell-and-santonio-holmes-among-worst-jets-free-agent-signings-in-history/
5. who on the 1990 roster are you paying money to aside from Rod Woodson and Greg Llyod: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/1990_roster.htm? Also there was no free agency, so if you didn't draft well (which they hadn't in awhile) was the owner just going to hand out $$$ to look awesome?

[teegre]

As mojoUW just posted, and I have posted in several threads: Cowher’s philosophy was to re-sign 4 or 5 of his defenders... versus signing one QB. I can’t argue with that philosophy.

I’m just glad that we’ve moved on from blaming Tomlin to blaming Dan Rooney... and, I can’t wait until start blaming Three Rivers Stadium. :willy:

[polamalubeast]

I mean we can pretend that your version is a what happened, or we can look at the actual events.

1, Odonnell was signed to one of the largest FA contracts ever handed out. https://vault.si.com/vault/1996/03/11/for-love-of-money-in-rejecting-the-steelers-for-the-jets-neil-odonnell-went-for-gold-instead-of-glory
2. Important to remember that the Steelers were within 1.5 million per year of the Jets offer. At the time, that was salary cap altering money.
3. From the SI article above: "If the Steelers had paid to keep O'Donnell, it would have been next to impossible to keep their defensive core--Brown, Levon Kirkland, Carnell Lake, Greg Lloyd and Woodson--intact."
4. The Odonnell deal was widely panned at the time and is now viewed as one of the worst contracts ever put out there: https://thesportsdrop.com/the-13-worst-free-agent-contracts-in-nfl-history/; https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2016/03/05/neil-odonnell-and-santonio-holmes-among-worst-jets-free-agent-signings-in-history/
5. who on the 1990 roster are you paying money to aside from Rod Woodson and Greg Llyod: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/1990_roster.htm? Also there was no free agency, so if you didn't draft well (which they hadn't in awhile) was the owner just going to hand out $$$ to look awesome?

Great search for that!

For O'Donnell, he was in the top 10 in nfl network for the worst free agent signing of all-time about 10 years ago, so it would have been a horrible idea to sign O'Donnell to a monster contract at this time!

[teegre]

If you wanted to pay a free agent QB, Cowher could have had Joe Montana for $3.5 million... but, we’ve already gone over that (in multiple threads that end exactly the same way).

[Six Rings]

As mojoUW just posted, and I have posted in several threads: Cowher’s philosophy was to re-sign 4 or 5 of his defenders... versus signing one QB. I can’t argue with that philosophy.

I’m just glad that we’ve moved on from blaming Tomlin to blaming Dan Rooney... and, I can’t wait until start blaming Three Rivers Stadium. :willy:

Re-sign his defenders you say?

Like Kevin Green and Rod Woodson? Sure. The Steelers DID NOT Re-sign either. Both proved that had a lot left. Bad move. Wanna talk about Chad Brown while we are at it? We lost all three star defenders in free agency. While I would not call O'Donnell a star QB ( He did make a pro bowl as a Steeler ) , he was a decent player at his peak and we let him go after leading the team to the AFC championship game and the Super bowl. Who does that? Its not like we had a rising star behind him at quarterback.

Would you let the Qb go who took you to the AFC championship game and the super bowl in back to back seasons, with no plan B? A simple yes or no will do. Be honest.

Worry not Rooney, doesn't pay any bills here, you can speak your mind.

As for Tomlin, he has to make the playoffs this year. With a 7th playoff spot added in each conference there is no excuses. I think even MoJoUW would agree with that. Three seasons with no playoffs should = you're fired.

If Tomlin fails to make the playoffs this year, he's out of Pittsburgh. If he makes the playoffs but loses in round one, he's 3-7 in his last playoff games...Rooney might keep him.

[polamalubeast]

Re-sign his defenders you say?

Like Kevin Green and Rod Woodson? Sure. The Steelers DID NOT Re-sign either. Both proved that had a lot left. Bad move. Wanna talk about Chad Brown while we are at it? We lost all three star defenders in free agency. While I would not call O'Donnell a star QB ( He did make a pro bowl as a Steeler ) , he was a decent player at his peak and we let him go after leading the team to the AFC championship game and the Super bowl. Who does that? Its not like we had a rising star behind him at quarterback.

Would you let the Qb go who took you to the AFC championship game and the super bowl in back to back seasons, with no plan B? A simple yes or no will do. Be honest.

Worry not Rooney, doesn't pay any bills here, you can speak your mind.

As for Tomlin, he has to make the playoffs this year. With a 7th playoff spot added in each conference there is no excuses. I think even MoJoUW would agree with that. Three seasons with no playoffs should = you're fired.

If Tomlin fails to make the playoffs this year, he's out of Pittsburgh. If he makes the playoffs but loses in round one, he's 3-7 in his last playoff games...Rooney might keep him.

Kevin Green had been signed by the steelers in the 1993 offseason as a free agent, so if Rooney was cheap in the 1990s they wouldn't have done that

The reason also that the steelers did not sign Rod Woodson after 1996 was because of his injury in 1995 and that the steelers thought he was no longer the same player as before ... it was a mistake, not a question of money

For Neil O'Donnell, read what Mojouw said in post number 19 in this thread ... The steelers had a great team, but the O'Donnell problem was not at its best in big time ... The steelers were in the AFC title game 2 years later with Kordell Stewart.

For 2020, if Ben is healthy and our defense continues to play at a high level (even if the turnovers are much lower) the steelers should make the playoffs easily, but if Ben is not healthy and our QB are playing like the worst of the NFL, it's going to be like 2019...

It was an accomplishment that the steelers were in the playoffs race until the very end in 2019 with a depleted offense and one of the worse in steelers history.

[polamalubeast]

For the record in the playoffs, yes Tomlin could be better than he was in the last decade, but I'm sure he can be better...If we look at the head coaches who are in the same tier as Tomlin

Pete Carrol is 3-5 in his last 8 playoffs games
Sean Payton is 4-6 in his 10 playoff games since 2010 (Tomlin has 5 in this period) and that includes a loss against a 7-9 Seattle seahawks.
John Harbaugh has only 1 win playoffs since 2013

Even Andy Reid was 1-7 in playoffs games between 2008 to 2017 and that included a collapse against the colts in 2013 and against a very weak titans team in 2017.

My point is that every coach can have a bad period and nobody is perfect ... That doesn't mean that they are not great coaches and need to be fired everytime there are a disappointment...

[Craic]

Sure, if you want to believe that not re-signing O'Donnell was good for our Super Bowl window in the mid to late 1990s, keep living your dream. I won't wake you up.


Stewart submarined the Steelers in the AFC championship game with three interceptions vs. the Broncos if you care to remember. If O'Donnell was the quarterback, the Steelers probably go back to the super bowl. He sucked and was beaten out by the likes of Kent Graham.


But Rooney was too cheap to pay for O'Donnell and it took nearly 10 years to find better.

- - - Updated - - -



That's not the case. Rooney was tight fisted when if came to money in the early to mid 1990's. This could have happened before some of you were born, so I'm not surprised if you were not aware of it.

If you want an example, read below:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/flashback-steelers-only-spent-131m-for-entire-teams-salary-in-1990/

Just... No.

First, that was from 1990, not 1995. In those five years, something called the salary cap was put in place. In the 1995 season, the salary cap was $37.1 million dollars. The Steelers' payroll that year? 37.4 million. While other teams were way over the cap, they got caught the next year and had to start cutting money and players left, right, and center, which forced many teams to go the Steelers way after that and start signing in house.

By the way, in '95, Aikman earned 3.5 million. That was going to go up to 5+ million the next year. That same year, Neil O'Donnell made 2.8 million. The Steelers offered 3.15 million per season. The Jets signed him for what averaged out to be a 5 million a year contract. There is no way O'Donnell was close enough to Aikman in talent that he should be making within 15 percent of Aikman's salary.

In 1996, the Steelers had to restructure Olsavsky's contract in order to come in under the cap. He was the first Steelers player to ever have his contract restructured. But that also means the Steelers were right at the cap in 1996.

So, were the Steelers "cheap" coming into the 90s? Yes. But by 1995, the cap was in place and the Steelers had to pay league mandated money. And, they were at the cap pretty much from then on.

[polamalubeast]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqg5_PIo3E

[Mojouw]

Re-sign his defenders you say?

Like Kevin Green and Rod Woodson? Sure. The Steelers DID NOT Re-sign either. Both proved that had a lot left. Bad move. Wanna talk about Chad Brown while we are at it? We lost all three star defenders in free agency. While I would not call O'Donnell a star QB ( He did make a pro bowl as a Steeler ) , he was a decent player at his peak and we let him go after leading the team to the AFC championship game and the Super bowl. Who does that? Its not like we had a rising star behind him at quarterback.

Would you let the Qb go who took you to the AFC championship game and the super bowl in back to back seasons, with no plan B? A simple yes or no will do. Be honest.

Worry not Rooney, doesn't pay any bills here, you can speak your mind.

As for Tomlin, he has to make the playoffs this year. With a 7th playoff spot added in each conference there is no excuses. I think even MoJoUW would agree with that. Three seasons with no playoffs should = you're fired.

If Tomlin fails to make the playoffs this year, he's out of Pittsburgh. If he makes the playoffs but loses in round one, he's 3-7 in his last playoff games...Rooney might keep him.

This is the worst attempt at reasoning I've seen today. And I've been evaluating stuff from college freshman working from home with no effort or interest level.

Steelers offered to resign Woodson at a pretty solid salary for a safety. He wanted to play CB. So he went to San Fran to CB. Then he signed with Baltimore to play....wait for it....safety.
Greene went bye bye because the Steelers wanted to start Gildon and Lloyd -- https://steelersdepot.com/2016/07/kevin-greene-explains-decision-leave-steelers-panthers-1996/
Brown left for a combination of money and playing role. Steelers wanted him to stay inside and he wanted to play on the edge and be paid like a pass-rusher. They didn't see it that way.

For someone who contends to remember an almost encyclopedic amount of Steelers and NFL history, you get your facts and arguments wrong more often than not.

As to the QB thing - absolutely if he wanted to be one of the highest paid players in the league and he kinda actually sucks. No problem telling him to pound sand.

[ALLD]

This is the worst attempt at reasoning I've seen today. And I've been evaluating stuff from college freshman working from home with no effort or interest level.

Steelers offered to resign Woodson at a pretty solid salary for a safety. He wanted to play CB. So he went to San Fran to CB. Then he signed with Baltimore to play....wait for it....safety.
Greene went bye bye because the Steelers wanted to start Gildon and Lloyd -- https://steelersdepot.com/2016/07/kevin-greene-explains-decision-leave-steelers-panthers-1996/
Brown left for a combination of money and playing role. Steelers wanted him to stay inside and he wanted to play on the edge and be paid like a pass-rusher. They didn't see it that way.

For someone who contends to remember an almost encyclopedic amount of Steelers and NFL history, you get your facts and arguments wrong more often than not.

As to the QB thing - absolutely if he wanted to be one of the highest paid players in the league and he kinda actually sucks. No problem telling him to pound sand.


Fine counterpoint. Lots of meat in this thread.

[pczach]

Just... No.

First, that was from 1990, not 1995. In those five years, something called the salary cap was put in place. In the 1995 season, the salary cap was $37.1 million dollars. The Steelers' payroll that year? 37.4 million. While other teams were way over the cap, they got caught the next year and had to start cutting money and players left, right, and center, which forced many teams to go the Steelers way after that and start signing in house.

By the way, in '95, Aikman earned 3.5 million. That was going to go up to 5+ million the next year. That same year, Neil O'Donnell made 2.8 million. The Steelers offered 3.15 million per season. The Jets signed him for what averaged out to be a 5 million a year contract. There is no way O'Donnell was close enough to Aikman in talent that he should be making within 15 percent of Aikman's salary.

In 1996, the Steelers had to restructure Olsavsky's contract in order to come in under the cap. He was the first Steelers player to ever have his contract restructured. But that also means the Steelers were right at the cap in 1996.

So, were the Steelers "cheap" coming into the 90s? Yes. But by 1995, the cap was in place and the Steelers had to pay league mandated money. And, they were at the cap pretty much from then on.


Pretty much.

This really isn't that hard. I don't understand why he doesn't get it.

[teegre]

Re-sign his defenders you say?

Like Kevin Green and Rod Woodson? Sure. The Steelers DID NOT Re-sign either. Both proved that had a lot left. Bad move. Wanna talk about Chad Brown while we are at it? We lost all three star defenders in free agency. While I would not call O'Donnell a star QB ( He did make a pro bowl as a Steeler ) , he was a decent player at his peak and we let him go after leading the team to the AFC championship game and the Super bowl. Who does that? Its not like we had a rising star behind him at quarterback.

Would you let the Qb go who took you to the AFC championship game and the super bowl in back to back seasons, with no plan B? A simple yes or no will do. Be honest.

Worry not Rooney, doesn't pay any bills here, you can speak your mind.

As for Tomlin, he has to make the playoffs this year. With a 7th playoff spot added in each conference there is no excuses. I think even MoJoUW would agree with that. Three seasons with no playoffs should = you're fired.

If Tomlin fails to make the playoffs this year, he's out of Pittsburgh. If he makes the playoffs but loses in round one, he's 3-7 in his last playoff games...Rooney might keep him.

Gildon replaced Greene. :yawn:

Cowher begged Woodson to switch to FS. Woodson demanded to play CB. So they parted ways. :yawn:

The Steelers stuck with Lloyd over Brown. It turned out to be the wrong choice. :yawn:

Would I let that QB go? I answered that very clearly. Scroll up... :noidea:

And, your man-crush (Harbaugh) hasn’t won a playoff game since 2013. :jerkit:

[86WARD]

Great search for that!

For O'Donnell, he was in the top 10 in nfl network for the worst free agent signing of all-time about 10 years ago, so it would have been a horrible idea to sign O'Donnell to a monster contract at this time!

Even Pat Korean, the GM who signed O’Donnell, has said that the contract and decision to sign O’Donnell to that contract wasn’t ideal.

Cowher had a “Plan-B” in place...it was called Kordell Stewart while keeping the defense intact.

[Mojouw]

Considering that if we retroactively enact the 7th playoff spot, Tomlin never misses the playoffs in his tenure...if he misses this year is that 1 or 3? Because if missing the playoffs is only a cardinal sin because the 7th spot makes it "easy" then it can not be 1 and 3 at the same time. Unless it is Schrodinger's Playoffs or maybe that'd be Hesienberg's Uncertainty Seeding? I will look into it...

Also, using hindsight to evaluate a plan or a sequence of events isn't the same as an organization not having one. For instance, the Steelers planned on using the cap $$$ not spent on Neil "I thought Larry Brown was on OUR Side" Odonnell to resign Woodson, Brown, and Greene. For a variety of reasons, those players did not want to take that $$$ because there were conflicts over roles. Now, in hindsight, Gildon over Greene was a bad decision in the short term and likely also in the long term. We could debate that in detail. Lloyd over Brown - also maybe bad? Although injuries wrecked both guys careers in short order. Woodson leaving to play CB? Rod was wrong on that one and even he has admitted it. Too lazy to look it up right now.

It is the same with the QB. Just because Stewart didn't pan out; doesn't mean there wasn't a plan. A plan being good, bad, or mediocre does not negate its existence. Now, if you are arguing that the Steelers should've redirected $$$ to Odonnell and away from the defense - fine. But the way your constructing your current house of cards is illogical at least and kinda crazy-pants at worst.

[Six Rings]

Gildon replaced Greene. :yawn:

Cowher begged Woodson to switch to FS. Woodson demanded to play CB. So they parted ways. :yawn:

The Steelers stuck with Lloyd over Brown. It turned out to be the wrong choice. :yawn:

Would I let that QB go? I answered that very clearly. Scroll up... :noidea:

And, your man-crush (Harbaugh) hasn’t won a playoff game since 2013. :jerkit:

Gildon replaced Green? Funny!

Woodson left because the Steelers didn't offer him a long term deal. The Steelers offered Woodson a one year deal for 3 million. That's it. You can look it up. Rooney who signs the checks let a hall of fame player and one of our best ever go...in his prime.

Let me guess, you are okay with losing both players. Is there some sort of homer hat posters get after then pass 5,000 posts? You wear it 24x7.

Lloyd and Brown played different positions, Rooney was too cheap to keep Chad. You got that one right, if we could only keep one, the Steelers made the wrong choice.

I have no man crush on Harbaugh, I just think he's a fine football coach.

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Even Pat Korean, the GM who signed O’Donnell, has said that the contract and decision to sign O’Donnell to that contract wasn’t ideal.

Cowher had a “Plan-B” in place...it was called Kordell Stewart while keeping the defense intact.



Stewart was not on the team when the Steelers let O'Donnell go. He was a 2nd round pick in a draft. That's hardly a plan. I do think Cowher should have moved on from Stewart sooner than he did. It was only when XFL player Tommy Maddox outshined him that Kordell was benched for good.


As for keeping the defense intact, that would mean Keeping Rod Woodson, and Kevin Greene. Maybe the people who donate to the board get a pair of rose-colored glasses that conceal the evidence and results of what happened.

[Hawkman]

Gildon replaced Green? Funny!

Woodson left because the Steelers didn't offer him a long term deal. The Steelers offered Woodson a one year deal for 3 million. That's it. You can look it up. Rooney who signs the checks let a hall of fame player and one of our best ever go...in his prime.

Let me guess, you are okay with losing both players. Is there some sort of homer hat posters get after then pass 5,000 posts? You wear it 24x7.

Lloyd and Brown played different positions, Rooney was too cheap to keep Chad. You got that one right, if we could only keep one, the Steelers made the wrong choice.

I have no man crush on Harbaugh, I just think he's a fine football coach.

- - - Updated - - -





Stewart was not on the team when the Steelers let O'Donnell go. He was a 2nd round pick in a draft. That's hardly a plan. I do think Cowher should have moved on from Stewart sooner than he did. It was only when XFL player Tommy Maddox outshined him that Kordell was benched for good.


As for keeping the defense intact, that would mean Keeping Rod Woodson, and Kevin Greene. Maybe the people who donate to the board get a pair of rose-colored glasses that conceal the evidence and results of what happened.

Do you really not check facts AT ALL? O’Donnell and Stewart played in the Super Bowl together. Were you not born then.
?

[polamalubeast]

Gildon replaced Green? Funny!

Woodson left because the Steelers didn't offer him a long term deal. The Steelers offered Woodson a one year deal for 3 million. That's it. You can look it up. Rooney who signs the checks let a hall of fame player and one of our best ever go...in his prime.

Let me guess, you are okay with losing both players. Is there some sort of homer hat posters get after then pass 5,000 posts? You wear it 24x7.

Lloyd and Brown played different positions, Rooney was too cheap to keep Chad. You got that one right, if we could only keep one, the Steelers made the wrong choice.

I have no man crush on Harbaugh, I just think he's a fine football coach.

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Stewart was not on the team when the Steelers let O'Donnell go. He was a 2nd round pick in a draft. That's hardly a plan. I do think Cowher should have moved on from Stewart sooner than he did. It was only when XFL player Tommy Maddox outshined him that Kordell was benched for good.


As for keeping the defense intact, that would mean Keeping Rod Woodson, and Kevin Greene. Maybe the people who donate to the board get a pair of rose-colored glasses that conceal the evidence and results of what happened.

Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap,Salary cap….

And Stewart was with the steelers in 1995.

[Hawkman]

Stewart I think, even started at QB once in 95 when O’Donnell was hurt.

[ALLD]

Gildon replaced Green? Funny!

Woodson left because the Steelers didn't offer him a long term deal. The Steelers offered Woodson a one year deal for 3 million. That's it. You can look it up. Rooney who signs the checks let a hall of fame player and one of our best ever go...in his prime.

Let me guess, you are okay with losing both players. Is there some sort of homer hat posters get after then pass 5,000 posts? You wear it 24x7.

Lloyd and Brown played different positions, Rooney was too cheap to keep Chad. You got that one right, if we could only keep one, the Steelers made the wrong choice.

I have no man crush on Harbaugh, I just think he's a fine football coach.

- - - Updated - - -





Stewart was not on the team when the Steelers let O'Donnell go. He was a 2nd round pick in a draft. That's hardly a plan. I do think Cowher should have moved on from Stewart sooner than he did. It was only when XFL player Tommy Maddox outshined him that Kordell was benched for good.


As for keeping the defense intact, that would mean Keeping Rod Woodson, and Kevin Greene. Maybe the people who donate to the board get a pair of rose-colored glasses that conceal the evidence and results of what happened.


I remember clearly when the Steelers let Woodson walk it was because they were concerned about his injury healing properly and him having enough left in the tank following rehab. In hindsight, Woodson chose wisely. His personal athletic expectations did not materialize as a CB, but he did win a Super Bowl out of it and became a world class, finesse S.

[Mojouw]

This is absolutely hilarious! On one hand we have documented facts, events, and statements. On the other hand we have a self-constructed fantasy world. Dude, Six Rings, just go back to copying and pasting other peoples posts -- at least those made sense!

Greene is on the record saying he was told that Gildon was replacing him in the starting line-up and the Steelers envisioned him finishing his career as a rotational pass-rusher.
Brown wanted to play the same position as Lloyd - outside pass rusher. In his best season as a Steeler, he did due to injury. Seattle offered him the opportunity to play more on the edge albeit in a different system. Again, these are facts and not filtered perceptions.
Woodson wanted to play CB. The Steelers were only willing to offer him a "prove it" deal for CB. They didn't think he could still play the position at a high level. They basically begged him to switch to FS and talk to them about a longer term deal. He said "nah". The fact that a year later he was on a third team and switching positions kinda demonstrates that the Steelers were correct, Woodson wasn't worth a big $$$ long-term deal at CB. He was at FS, but, at the time of the contract offer, Rod wasn't ready to admit he had to make the switch. This isn't some fantasy that the rest of the MB made up. Most of us remember when it happened.

Maybe I just hallucinated Stewart's rush attempts in the SB? Oh. No. Wait. you're just wrong -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StewKo00/gamelog/post/

[polamalubeast]

This is absolutely hilarious! On one hand we have documented facts, events, and statements. On the other hand we have a self-constructed fantasy world. Dude, Six Rings, just go back to copying and pasting other peoples posts -- at least those made sense!

Greene is on the record saying he was told that Gildon was replacing him in the starting line-up and the Steelers envisioned him finishing his career as a rotational pass-rusher.
Brown wanted to play the same position as Lloyd - outside pass rusher. In his best season as a Steeler, he did due to injury. Seattle offered him the opportunity to play more on the edge albeit in a different system. Again, these are facts and not filtered perceptions.
Woodson wanted to play CB. The Steelers were only willing to offer him a "prove it" deal for CB. They didn't think he could still play the position at a high level. They basically begged him to switch to FS and talk to them about a longer term deal. He said "nah". The fact that a year later he was on a third team and switching positions kinda demonstrates that the Steelers were correct, Woodson wasn't worth a big $$$ long-term deal at CB. He was at FS, but, at the time of the contract offer, Rod wasn't ready to admit he had to make the switch. This isn't some fantasy that the rest of the MB made up. Most of us remember when it happened.

Maybe I just hallucinated Stewart's rush attempts in the SB? Oh. No. Wait. you're just wrong -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StewKo00/gamelog/post/

No,The steelers would keep all of his players if Rooney was not too cheap! :sarcasm: ...So what the salary cap!

[Mojouw]

No,The steelers would keep all of his players if Rooney was not too cheap! :sarcasm: ...So what the salary cap!

I guess it helps explain why St. Cowher doesn't have more victories and championships. It was all because the cheap owner was holding him back. No idea what the need to rewrite history is here.

I thought we left the "Rooney's are cheap" storyline back in the past. But cool to see an old internet favorite revived. Like some sort of zombie from message boards of the past.

[Hawkman]

I remember clearly when the Steelers let Woodson walk it was because they were concerned about his injury healing properly and him having enough left in the tank following rehab. In hindsight, Woodson chose wisely. His personal athletic expectations did not materialize as a CB, but he did win a Super Bowl out of it and became a world class, finesse S.

I remember he was the fastest to ever recover from that injury. No one thought he would be well/fit enough for the playoffs. Showed everyone wrong. But, I never heard one resentful word from him about the decision to let him go. I’m just sorry he didn’t end his career with Steelers.

[polamalubeast]

I guess it helps explain why St. Cowher doesn't have more victories and championships. It was all because the cheap owner was holding him back. No idea what the need to rewrite history is here.

I thought we left the "Rooney's are cheap" storyline back in the past. But cool to see an old internet favorite revived. Like some sort of zombie from message boards of the past.

And the worst part when you,Teegre and 86ward get the facts out, he says we have rose-colored glasses or things like that!

[polamalubeast]

If you want a cheap owner,look at Mike Brown with the Bengals.This is so stupid to say that Rooney was cheap when the steelers were so close in the salary cap.

[teegre]

Gildon replaced Green? Funny!

Woodson left because the Steelers didn't offer him a long term deal. The Steelers offered Woodson a one year deal for 3 million. That's it. You can look it up. Rooney who signs the checks let a hall of fame player and one of our best ever go...in his prime.

Let me guess, you are okay with losing both players. Is there some sort of homer hat posters get after then pass 5,000 posts? You wear it 24x7.

Lloyd and Brown played different positions, Rooney was too cheap to keep Chad. You got that one right, if we could only keep one, the Steelers made the wrong choice.

I have no man crush on Harbaugh, I just think he's a fine football coach.

- - - Updated - - -





Stewart was not on the team when the Steelers let O'Donnell go. He was a 2nd round pick in a draft. That's hardly a plan. I do think Cowher should have moved on from Stewart sooner than he did. It was only when XFL player Tommy Maddox outshined him that Kordell was benched for good.


As for keeping the defense intact, that would mean Keeping Rod Woodson, and Kevin Greene. Maybe the people who donate to the board get a pair of rose-colored glasses that conceal the evidence and results of what happened.

FACT: Like it or not, the Steelers’ plan was for their R2 pick to take over for the aging free agent. They weren’t going to keep both.

OPINION: Like many others who watched the young Gildon, we were hopeful that he’d be able to take over for Greene.


FACT: Cowher begged Woodson to play FS. Woodson felt he could still play CB. It was a mutual parting of the ways.

OPINION: I cannot blame Woodson for wanting to play CB.


FACT: When Lloyd was injured, Brown switched to OLB for a year. If you had actually watched the Steelers back then, you’d know this. They weren’t going to keep both.

OPINION: Lloyd was a legend; he was the “heart” choice (Brown was probably the smarter choice).


FACT: Stewart was in the roster in 1995. Again, if you had actually watched the Steelers back then, you’d know this.

OPINION: Scroll up.


FACT: They do not pass out “rose-colored glasses”.

OPINION: You’re not very good at this.


SUMMATION:
I’ll give you credit: when you got caught cutting-&-pasting, at least you tried switching up your M.O. That said, making stuff up... not better. :noidea:

[Edman]

The Ravens let Dilfer go because he wasn't good. In their super bowl year he had 12 TD's 11 INT's.

Then they proceeded to find someone far worse in Grbac.

The Ravens spent the rest of the decade searching for a quarterback until they found Flacco, who even then was questionable. Shannon Sharpe and Ray Lewis were very vocal about it and went on record to say letting Dilfer walk after 2000 was a mistake.

The QB revolving door is a tempting mistress. It calls and beckons to make a change. "You can do better" it always says. Sometimes you strike gold and find a Mahomes, but the rest of the time, you'll have the Browns QB jersey list.

[polamalubeast]

Then they proceeded to find someone far worse in Grbac.

The Ravens spent the rest of the decade searching for a quarterback until they found Flacco, who even then was questionable. Shannon Sharpe and Ray Lewis were very vocal about it and went on record to say letting Dilfer walk after 2000 was a mistake.

The QB revolving door is a tempting mistress. It calls and beckons to make a change. "You can do better" it always says. Sometimes you strike gold and find a Mahomes, but the rest of the time, you'll have the Browns QB jersey list.

But it was still the right decision by the ravens to try to find a better QB than Dilfer .... It's just that they were unable to find one before 2008 with Flacco ... Even if Flacco was not perfect , he had his moments and was able to step up when it was time.

Kyle Boller's experience was a disaster but no way they would have won or be close from winning another super bowl with Trent Dilfer....Given only 10 points per game in regular season and 23 points in 4 games in the playoffs like ravens defense did in 2000 it only happens once in our life!

[Six Rings]

Do you really not check facts AT ALL? O’Donnell and Stewart played in the Super Bowl together. Were you not born then.
?



Okay, Kordell was a rookie and used as a Wide receiver. I don't think Stewart threw one pass for the super bowl. In fact he completed just 5 passes in his entire rookie year. When the Steeler declined to match the Jets offer, Tomzack started in 1996. Stewart was hardly a plan B after O'Donnell left, that was Tomzack, and he sucked. In the 1996 season, Stewart completed 11 passes our of 30 attempts. That's it.


When Stewart took over in 1997, he was petty poor. Just 53.3% of his passes completed and he threw 17 Interceptions, later sinking us with 18-36 passing day with 3 interceptions and a fumble lost vs the Broncos. Thes Steelers ran the ball well for 161 yards, but asking any team to overcome 4 turnovers by a quarterback is too much. Had the Steelers Kept O'Donell, they are back in the Super Bowl. But Rooney was too cheap.


I've been watching Steeler football since the 1970's.

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FACT: Like it or not, the Steelers’ plan was for their R2 pick to take over for the aging free agent. They weren’t going to keep both.

OPINION: Like many others who watched the young Gildon, we were hopeful that he’d be able to take over for Greene.


FACT: Cowher begged Woodson to play FS. Woodson felt he could still play CB. It was a mutual parting of the ways.

OPINION: I cannot blame Woodson for wanting to play CB.


FACT: When Lloyd was injured, Brown switched to OLB for a year. If you had actually watched the Steelers back then, you’d know this. They weren’t going to keep both.

OPINION: Lloyd was a legend; he was the “heart” choice (Brown was probably the smarter choice).


FACT: Stewart was in the roster in 1995. Again, if you had actually watched the Steelers back then, you’d know this.

OPINION: Scroll up.


FACT: They do not pass out “rose-colored glasses”.

OPINION: You’re not very good at this.


SUMMATION:
I’ll give you credit: when you got caught cutting-&-pasting, at least you tried switching up your M.O. That said, making stuff up... not better. :noidea:


Cough cough BS. Woodson wanted a multi year deal. The Steelers didn't offer one, just a 1 year deal. And just like that we lost one of our best players ever. Stop living in the Matrix.

[polamalubeast]

Okay, Kordell was a rookie and used as a Wide receiver. I don't think Stewart threw one pass for the super bowl. In fact he completed just 5 passes in his entire rookie year. When the Steeler declined to match the Jets offer, Tomzack started in 1996. Stewart was hardly a plan B after O'Donnell left, that was Tomzack, and he sucked. In the 1996 season, Stewart completed 11 passes our of 30 attempts. That's it.


When Stewart took over in 1997, he was petty poor. Just 53.3% of his passes completed and he threw 17 Interceptions, later sinking us with 18-36 passing day with 3 interceptions and a fumble lost vs the Broncos. Thes Steelers ran the ball well for 161 yards, but asking any team to overcome 4 turnovers by a quarterback is too much. Had the Steelers Kept O'Donell, they are back in the Super Bowl. But Rooney was too cheap.


I've been watching Steeler football since the 1970's.

.


ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

I'm going to stay civil, but I can't believe you don't realize that the NFL with a salary cap since at least 1994 and the steelers were very close in the salary cap .... You can't exceed a salary cap ... I don't know what you don't understand in that, it's not baseball !!!!

Our roster would also have been much weaker in 1997 if the steelers would have given a big contract to Neil O'Donnell and O'Donnell as we have seen with other teams is not a QB which can carry a team, much less in the AFC title game because of its play ...

Stewart's game against Denver was not much worse than O'Donnell's game against the Cowboys, a game he gave the super bowl MVP to Larry Brown that helped Brown get a monster contract with the raiders at this time.At least Kordell can run….

But hey, Rooney was too cheap, even if you can't exceed a salary cap!

[Mojouw]

Guys, give it up. You can't argue with stupid. Especially that particular kind of stupid that's too dumb to realize when they're wrong.

Plus, he's watched Steelers football since the 70s. What more proof do you need that he knows it all?

[Mojouw]

Ok. I know I said to stop. But this might be the most entertaining thing I got going on right now. Take a look at this statement:

"...later sinking us with 18-36 passing day with 3 interceptions and a fumble lost vs the Broncos. Thes Steelers ran the ball well for 161 yards, but asking any team to overcome 4 turnovers by a quarterback is too much. Had the Steelers Kept O'Donell, they are back in the Super Bowl. But Rooney was too cheap."

Just look at how glorious it is! I mean there is a ton going on there. But let's just stick to my favorite part - how Stewart's turnovers prevented an otherwise great team and, one can only assume, amazing coach, from reaching their Super Bowl destiny. OK! Let's grant him that hypothesis. Dude's answer is to retain the QB who turned the ball over 3 times in the SB! That guy was going to lead you to the promised land? C'mon. You aren't even being consistent. If the biggest problem with Stewart was turnovers in big games against good defenses...well ol' Neil will see your bet and raise you one. Odonnell throws one less INT in that SB and there is not a hard to imagine version where the Steelers pull off the upset victory.

Dude has got to be one of the weirdest posters we have ever had. How do you even define "cheap" in the salary cap era? Not spending to the cap? Or, as it appears, not signing Six Rings favorite QB?

I can totally get behind the idea that Tomzcak and Stewart were bad QB succession plans but the idea that Neil Odonnell would've held down the turnovers in big games so the Steelers could win...sweet lord...that's was his whole jam!

[teegre]

Cough cough BS. Woodson wanted a multi year deal. The Steelers didn't offer one, just a 1 year deal. And just like that we lost one of our best players ever. Stop living in the Matrix.

For once you are “kind of” correct.

Woodson wanted a multi-year deal as a CB. (correct) The Steelers wanted him to play FS. Rod refused to switch positions.

So, the Steelers offered a one-year deal as a CB. (correct) Woodson balked... and, took a one-year deal with the Niners (one of the few teams to offer him any sort of deal).

After that one year with the Niners, Rod came to his senses... and switched to FS. Alas, it was with the Ravens.

QUESTIONS:
Where were the teams lined up to sign Woodson to play CB? Are the other owners just as “cheap” as Dan Rooney???

SUMMATION:
It was a mutual parting of the ways. And, it turns out that the Steelers were correct to ask Rod to play FS. But, you should already know that... if you actually watched the Steelers back then.

[Born2Steel]

For once you are “kind of” correct.

Woodson wanted a multi-year deal as a CB. (correct) The Steelers wanted him to play FS. Rod refused to switch positions.

So, the Steelers offered a one-year deal as a CB. (correct) Woodson balked... and, took a one-year deal with the Niners (one of the few teams to offer him any sort of deal).

After that one year with the Niners, Rod came to his senses... and switched to FS. Alas, it was with the Ravens.

QUESTIONS:
Where were the teams lined up to sign Woodson to play CB? Are the other owners just as “cheap” as Dan Rooney???

SUMMATION:
It was a mutual parting of the ways. And, it turns out that the Steelers were correct to ask Rod to play FS. But, you should already know that... if you actually watched the Steelers back then.

I read a quote a while back(2 maybe 3 seasons ago) where Haden said he expects to eventually make the switch to FS. Haden just celebrated turning 31. I wonder if the Steelers are looking at CB rather than Safety this draft from that very perspective. Haden to FS allows Fitz more freedom to roam and Edmunds to play from the box/NB position. According to contract details Haden becomes a FA after 2020. IF...Winfield is not available at 49, Steelers change direction and go for a CB(not necessarily at 49) and plan to move Haden in 2021???

[polamalubeast]

I think Haden become a free agent after the 2021 season.

[Born2Steel]

I think Haden become a free agent after the 2021 season.

One last BIG paycheck before retirement?

[polamalubeast]

One last BIG paycheck before retirement?

Maybe, maybe not.

It will depend on how he will play next year and the year after ... At his age, you have to take it year to year

[Mojouw]

I read a quote a while back(2 maybe 3 seasons ago) where Haden said he expects to eventually make the switch to FS. Haden just celebrated turning 31. I wonder if the Steelers are looking at CB rather than Safety this draft from that very perspective. Haden to FS allows Fitz more freedom to roam and Edmunds to play from the box/NB position. According to contract details Haden becomes a FA after 2020. IF...Winfield is not available at 49, Steelers change direction and go for a CB(not necessarily at 49) and plan to move Haden in 2021???

Very shortly you have to start restocking the CB spot on the roster. Haden, Hilton, and Sutton are all 2021 FA's. You can keep 2 of the 3. If for no other reason than either Hilton or Sutton is going to try and force their way to another team to play more snaps. So that means your 2021 CBs project as Nelson and Layne on the outside. Hilton or Sutton in the slot and Haden is the wildcard.

Do you pay Haden on some sort of year to year and have him start until he can't anymore? That leaves you potentially very unsure about Layne's abilities and development.
Do you move Haden to safety? If so, does that actually make things worse? Move MF out of FS and maybe he is less impactful. Would Haden be any good as a FS? Not a guarantee.

At some point they have to have a "plan" -- whatever it may be. I suspect that the plan was to move Haden to FS. Maybe sooner than anyone thought because they let Sean Davis walk. Then MF arrived and likely changed a bunch. Heck, MF roaming around at FS may let Haden be an effective outside CB for a few extra years.

One thought is play Haden in Charles Woodson's old role with GB. Where he just roams around and creates havoc. Might work. Although not sure how Haden is attacking the line of scrimmage...

[Born2Steel]

Very shortly you have to start restocking the CB spot on the roster. Haden, Hilton, and Sutton are all 2021 FA's. You can keep 2 of the 3. If for no other reason than either Hilton or Sutton is going to try and force their way to another team to play more snaps. So that means your 2021 CBs project as Nelson and Layne on the outside. Hilton or Sutton in the slot and Haden is the wildcard.

Do you pay Haden on some sort of year to year and have him start until he can't anymore? That leaves you potentially very unsure about Layne's abilities and development.
Do you move Haden to safety? If so, does that actually make things worse? Move MF out of FS and maybe he is less impactful. Would Haden be any good as a FS? Not a guarantee.

At some point they have to have a "plan" -- whatever it may be. I suspect that the plan was to move Haden to FS. Maybe sooner than anyone thought because they let Sean Davis walk. Then MF arrived and likely changed a bunch. Heck, MF roaming around at FS may let Haden be an effective outside CB for a few extra years.

One thought is play Haden in Charles Woodson's old role with GB. Where he just roams around and creates havoc. Might work. Although not sure how Haden is attacking the line of scrimmage...

That is the interesting thing moving forward with this defense. Having movable pieces like Haden, Fitz, and Edmunds in the secondary combined with Sutton who can play inside and outside. Hilton is great in the middle and has moved to safety at times as well. Layne is supposedly the backup for Haden and the hopeful replacement. Like PB suggested, if Haden decides to hit FA after 2020 he may be a loss due to wanting too much money. I don't see CB as a pick this season but maybe some big FA move after the draft?

[Mojouw]

That is the interesting thing moving forward with this defense. Having movable pieces like Haden, Fitz, and Edmunds in the secondary combined with Sutton who can play inside and outside. Hilton is great in the middle and has moved to safety at times as well. Layne is supposedly the backup for Haden and the hopeful replacement. Like PB suggested, if Haden decides to hit FA after 2020 he may be a loss due to wanting too much money. I don't see CB as a pick this season but maybe some big FA move after the draft?

I could see them taking a CB in the draft. This draft is shaping up to a be a Colbert BPA special. A couple "what! I didn't see that coming picks." and a few "he was just by far the best athlete/player left on our board" picks.

You could argue it is NT, but really there aren't any "must fill" spots on the top 14 guys on either side of the ball. Most of the draft picks made this year are for depth and 2021 forward. Whenever Colbert has been in that position before, he hangs a few odd picks on the board.

[Born2Steel]

I could see them taking a CB in the draft. This draft is shaping up to a be a Colbert BPA special. A couple "what! I didn't see that coming picks." and a few "he was just by far the best athlete/player left on our board" picks.

You could argue it is NT, but really there aren't any "must fill" spots on the top 14 guys on either side of the ball. Most of the draft picks made this year are for depth and 2021 forward. Whenever Colbert has been in that position before, he hangs a few odd picks on the board.

You are correct. And that possibility always makes me smile. When Colbert can just go fill out the roster with guys he deems "Steelers guys" good things happen more often than not. Blue chip OL, off the radar star WR, or putting this thread back on track, how about a small school big armed QB.

[Mojouw]

You are correct. And that possibility always makes me smile. When Colbert can just go fill out the roster with guys he deems "Steelers guys" good things happen more often than not. Blue chip OL, off the radar star WR, or putting this thread back on track, how about a small school big armed QB.

Yup! BPA all day is usually my favorite draft type. I guess we will see in just over a week!

[teegre]

I read a quote a while back(2 maybe 3 seasons ago) where Haden said he expects to eventually make the switch to FS. Haden just celebrated turning 31. I wonder if the Steelers are looking at CB rather than Safety this draft from that very perspective. Haden to FS allows Fitz more freedom to roam and Edmunds to play from the box/NB position. According to contract details Haden becomes a FA after 2020. IF...Winfield is not available at 49, Steelers change direction and go for a CB(not necessarily at 49) and plan to move Haden in 2021???

I could definitely see Haden switching to S. He’s amenable to the switch. And, Tomlin loves Haden.

How that would work... hmm. I’m not moving Fitzpatrick from FS. Maybe Haden is more of a SS... or a rover. Or, they play both safeties interchangeably.

The Steelers have “met” with quite a few CBs. So, I could see them drafting a CB with the idea of moving Haden to S.