Steelers restructuring...

[Born2Steel]

https://nfltraderumors.co/steelers-restructure-five-players-including-ben-roethlisberger-free-up-20m-in-cap-space/


Here we go.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I have a feeling that there might be something mind blowing in the way of a transaction coming up.

Interesting that article mentions Vance McDonald ranks as the #66 TE of 67 eligible for ranking. He is basically the Antowan Blake of NFL TE's.

[Craic]

I have a feeling that there might be something mind blowing in the way of a transaction coming up.

Interesting that article mentions Vance McDonald ranks as the #66 TE of 67 eligible for ranking. He is basically the Antowan Blake of NFL TE's.

Not quite. Antwan Blake's rank was do to a lack of NFL ability. Vance McDonald's is due to a lack of availability and horrible QB play last year. I think had McD had Ben all year last year, he'd probably be middle of the pack. Maybe a tad above middle if his previous year's stats held true.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Not quite. Antwan Blake's rank was do to a lack of NFL ability. Vance McDonald's is due to a lack of availability and horrible QB play last year. I think had McD had Ben all year last year, he'd probably be middle of the pack. Maybe a tad above middle if his previous year's stats held true.

One of the most important abilities in the NFL is avail-ability.

Vance McDonald has proven over his 7 year career that he is often not available and is pretty good at dropping passes, but picking up a paycheck hasn't been his issue. He ranks as the 2nd worst TE, but when it comes to being overpaid for underperforming....IMO he is #1.

[HollywoodSteel]

From the deals I’ve seen TEs making lately Vance seems like a bargain given how badly we need him. There aren’t any quality bargains to be had.

It also seems like almost all TEs are some kind of health risk. It’s the nature of the position.

Let’s face it, we have to have fortune smile upon us in the health department in 2020. There’s definite luck involved. If our starters stay healthy we are contenders. If the injury bug strikes us we’re the Chargers of the past few years.

[AtlantaDan]

Had to clear space for this blockbuster deal

1240018698007609347

[tube517]

Had to clear space for this blockbuster deal

1240018698007609347

:chuckle:

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

:chuckle: They should have used the tag on him instead of Bud. Lucky things work out!

[86WARD]

So where does the cap sit after Restructures, Dupree and D.Watt?

[86WARD]

Read that they freed up $35M after the restructures and roster moves.

[Craic]

One of the most important abilities in the NFL is avail-ability.

Vance McDonald has proven over his 7 year career that he is often not available and is pretty good at dropping passes, but picking up a paycheck hasn't been his issue. He ranks as the 2nd worst TE, but when it comes to being overpaid for underperforming....IMO he is #1.

Not arguing any of that. Only that he really can't be compared to Blake because the situations are too different. That's it.

[Mojouw]

Read that they freed up $35M after the restructures and roster moves.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/pittsburgh-steelers/

This says they are 8 millon over the cap.

[86WARD]

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/pittsburgh-steelers/

This says they are 8 millon over the cap.

I don't think they are allowed to be over the cap now since the new league year has begun. Post Gazette had a story that after all the roter moves (and before Watt and Dupree) that they shaved $35M off the cap.

What you posted may not be up to date? Still has Vance at $7.1M and he was supposedly one of the restructures.

[86WARD]

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/pittsburgh-steelers/

This says they are 8 millon over the cap.

1240396988614574080

[Mojouw]

1240396988614574080
This seems far more correct. Thanks!

[86WARD]

This seems far more correct. Thanks!

Not sure that is accurate but I think that's his estimate and he's usually pretty close. With a little more roster work (DeCastro, Villenueva and maybe Pouncey) they may be able to get some good cash flow?

[steelreserve]

If I am not mistaken, saving $9.975 million this year means that Ben's cap hit in 2021 will be around $41.5 million. Yikes. Since that's the last year of his deal, the only way they can reduce it is to extend him again, and at that point he'll be 40. I hope we have a plan for the reality that he can't play forever.

[BlackAndGold]

Another restructure, Pouncey this time.

- - - Updated - - -


If I am not mistaken, saving $9.975 million this year means that Ben's cap hit in 2021 will be around $41.5 million. Yikes. Since that's the last year of his deal, the only way they can reduce it is to extend him again, and at that point he'll be 40. I hope we have a plan for the reality that he can't play forever.

Good thing the salary cap will sky rocket next year.

[Mojouw]

Not sure that is accurate but I think that's his estimate and he's usually pretty close. With a little more roster work (DeCastro, Villenueva and maybe Pouncey) they may be able to get some good cash flow?

This is an even more updated version and it looks like they have about $6 million to toss around.

https://steelersdepot.com/2020/03/steelers-2020-salary-cap-status-update-as-of-3-18/

[steelreserve]

Another restructure, Pouncey this time.

- - - Updated - - -



Good thing the salary cap will sky rocket next year.

That's what they say every year. The cap has probably gone up 50%-75% over the past decade, yet we still end up in exactly the same place, which is scrambling to restructure deals.

I don't see it bailing us out anyway - we have been rolling money over for years and years with Ben's restructures, to the point where we are basically carrying a fifth of the salary cap in funny money on his deal alone. Retirement is the one thing where you CAN'T get out of paying. That bill is coming due soon.

Keep in mind also that if there really is a huge cap increase, it doesn't help us if everybody else has an extra $40 million to spend and we stand still. They spent their money on players, we spent ours on dead cap space. In that environment, Watt will want $25 million and get it; Dupree will be worth $17 million even if he sucks; role players like Hilton will want their $8 million and get it. We still have to actually deal with the fallout from all that dead cap space.

[pczach]

That's what they say every year. The cap has probably gone up 50%-75% over the past decade, yet we still end up in exactly the same place, which is scrambling to restructure deals.

I don't see it bailing us out anyway - we have been rolling money over for years and years with Ben's restructures, to the point where we are basically carrying a fifth of the salary cap in funny money on his deal alone. Retirement is the one thing where you CAN'T get out of paying. That bill is coming due soon.

Keep in mind also that if there really is a huge cap increase, it doesn't help us if everybody else has an extra $40 million to spend and we stand still. They spent their money on players, we spent ours on dead cap space. In that environment, Watt will want $25 million and get it; Dupree will be worth $17 million even if he sucks; role players like Hilton will want their $8 million and get it. We still have to actually deal with the fallout from all that dead cap space.


The Steelers aren't the only team doing that. There are plenty of teams manipulating the cap to try to win right now.

They are one of the only teams that manages to do it year after year and compete for a championship most seasons.

[86WARD]

The Steelers aren't the only team doing that. There are plenty of teams manipulating the cap to try to win right now.

They are one of the only teams that manages to do it year after year and compete for a championship most seasons.

Yet, every year it’s doom and gloom. I say every year if they want a player, they can make it happen and get whatever money they need. Just not sure how they will handle Ben next season...lol.

[steelreserve]

The Steelers aren't the only team doing that. There are plenty of teams manipulating the cap to try to win right now.

They are one of the only teams that manages to do it year after year and compete for a championship most seasons.

Yes, and a large reason why they can do it is that they can restructure Ben's contract every year to save between $10-$18M against the cap. Soon, they will not be able to do that. In fact, for the year when he retires, it'll be the reverse of that.

This is not "doom and gloom." It is wondering what the actual plan is. They will need to do something to make that $40 million manageable - it will not just go away because I'm a fan and not a pro football GM.

[Born2Steel]

Yes, and a large reason why they can do it is that they can restructure Ben's contract every year to save between $10-$18M against the cap. Soon, they will not be able to do that. In fact, for the year when he retires, it'll be the reverse of that.

This is not "doom and gloom." It is wondering what the actual plan is. They will need to do something to make that $40 million manageable - it will not just go away because I'm a fan and not a pro football GM.

The plan is to have a good enough TEAM around the new QB that not being able to sign FAs won't be an issue. Right now that plan is still being rolled out. Defense looks much better, getting good young weapons, OL rebuild through the draft(hopefully), and gotta find that replacement QB for when Ben does retire. Actually Ben just turned 38. Tom Brady turns 43 this year. Ben is 3 times the man Tom is so Ben could conceivably play well into his 60s.

[pczach]

Yes, and a large reason why they can do it is that they can restructure Ben's contract every year to save between $10-$18M against the cap. Soon, they will not be able to do that. In fact, for the year when he retires, it'll be the reverse of that.

This is not "doom and gloom." It is wondering what the actual plan is. They will need to do something to make that $40 million manageable - it will not just go away because I'm a fan and not a pro football GM.


I didn't accuse you of being in the "doom and gloom" crowd. I just responded to something you said to point out that the team has been very successful operating right at the cap for a long time now.

Of course things are going to change when Ben leaves, but they won't have a quarterback making $30 mil a year. They probably start a QB on the roster and draft a quarterback to be the eventual starter who will be playing under a rookie contract. Ben's cap hit is gone after a year, and life begins again with a shitload of cap room and a young QB.

[86WARD]

I didn't accuse you of being in the "doom and gloom" crowd. I just responded to something you said to point out that the team has been very successful operating right at the cap for a long time now.

Of course things are going to change when Ben leaves, but they won't have a quarterback making $30 mil a year. They probably start a QB on the roster and draft a quarterback to be the eventual starter who will be playing under a rookie contract. Ben's cap hit is gone after a year, and life begins again with a shitload of cap room and a young QB.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200319/7862f56e2828983ad0146120dd966f54.jpg

[Craic]

Yes, and a large reason why they can do it is that they can restructure Ben's contract every year to save between $10-$18M against the cap. Soon, they will not be able to do that. In fact, for the year when he retires, it'll be the reverse of that.

This is not "doom and gloom." It is wondering what the actual plan is. They will need to do something to make that $40 million manageable - it will not just go away because I'm a fan and not a pro football GM.

Except that, next year, half the team's cap hit disappears and we're 40 mill under this year's cap for next year at this point. Sure, we'll have to sign people back, but Ben, Haden, Tuitt, Pouncey, Nelson, DeCastro, Bush, Boswell, Edmunds, Fitzpatrick, and Washington are already locked into salaries. The big cost for next year will be T.J.'s contract, Dupree's contract (if he performs this year), Heyward's contract, and maybe Schuster's contract if he performs well this year. Sutton as well. I'm pretty sure we can fit those in for next year with enough room to sign others. And, don't forget, we have another $9 million in dead money that will fall off next year. Not to mention if we sign Dupree, it will actually reduce his cap hit compared to this year.

So, if there ever was a time to do this without cause long-term damage, this would be that time.

[Mojouw]

Except that, next year, half the team's cap hit disappears and we're 40 mill under this year's cap for next year at this point. Sure, we'll have to sign people back, but Ben, Haden, Tuitt, Pouncey, Nelson, DeCastro, Bush, Boswell, Edmunds, Fitzpatrick, and Washington are already locked into salaries. The big cost for next year will be T.J.'s contract, Dupree's contract (if he performs this year), Heyward's contract, and maybe Schuster's contract if he performs well this year. Sutton as well. I'm pretty sure we can fit those in for next year with enough room to sign others. And, don't forget, we have another $9 million in dead money that will fall off next year. Not to mention if we sign Dupree, it will actually reduce his cap hit compared to this year.

So, if there ever was a time to do this without cause long-term damage, this would be that time.

After this year, they can pay any bills that were postponed AND spend like drunken sailors.

[Six Rings]

Had to clear space for this blockbuster deal

1240018698007609347

Whew! What ever happed to the long snapper we drafted?

[tube517]

Whew! What ever happed to the long snapper we drafted?

Holba is on Giants now.

[steelreserve]

Except that, next year, half the team's cap hit disappears and we're 40 mill under this year's cap for next year at this point.

Holy shit, we'll really be in a position to go on a spending spree! There must be some catch ...



Sure, we'll have to sign people back,

Oh - that.

We are nearly ALWAYS $40 million under the cap a year or two out. $60 million-plus 3 years out. Almost every team in the league is that way, because nobody ever has a contract longer than that except your 10 or so first-round picks and highly paid stars. Virtually all of your backups, half your starters, and two-thirds of your rookie-contract guys, will be on deals that expire in 1-2 years at any given point.

So that $40 million or $60 million needs to fill out a third or a half of your whole roster. The only reason why there's all that cap space is because we are no longer paying someone and their spot needs to be filled by someone else. Unless you know of some guys who will play for free, most of it is a huge illusion. We will be ok like normal, but it is doubtful that it's some opportunity to go out and make a big splash.

[Mojouw]

Look at the teams that go on "free agent spending sprees" they ALL have one common variable.

They have a QB on a rookie deal. That's $20-30 million in cap space every year for 5 years!

Now everyone is going to scramble and find FA signings for $$$ by vet QB teams. Fine.

See what their draft classes look like. Full of pro bowl caliber players? Gonna guess not. There's more cap space.

Steelers are maxed out because they actually have players worth paying.

[Craic]

Holy shit, we'll really be in a position to go on a spending spree! There must be some catch ...




Oh - that.

We are nearly ALWAYS $40 million under the cap a year or two out. $60 million-plus 3 years out. Almost every team in the league is that way, because nobody ever has a contract longer than that except your 10 or so first-round picks and highly paid stars. Virtually all of your backups, half your starters, and two-thirds of your rookie-contract guys, will be on deals that expire in 1-2 years at any given point.

So that $40 million or $60 million needs to fill out a third or a half of your whole roster. The only reason why there's all that cap space is because we are no longer paying someone and their spot needs to be filled by someone else. Unless you know of some guys who will play for free, most of it is a huge illusion. We will be ok like normal, but it is doubtful that it's some opportunity to go out and make a big splash.

No, we're not always 40 mill under the cap a year out. Not at all. We're in a position now where a ton of contracts are about to expire and all the backloading that went with them. Also, I like how you ignored my reasoning why filling that roster isn't going to be as difficult as you think. With that amount of money and the fact that most of our big names are still under contract, it makes the backloading this year make sense.

[86WARD]

Jordan Dangerfield in on a one year deal!!

[Mojouw]

Jordan Dangerfield in on a one year deal!!

Damnit! I thought they had finally gotten over that speed bump.

Fair enough, I guess. He knows the system. He plays well on STs. But I just don't believe in "depth" options you already know can NOT play actual NFL snaps. Jordan Dangerfield can not play actual defensive snaps in real NFL games. Therefore, why roster him? Try something, anyone else for the same $$$.

[pczach]

Damnit! I thought they had finally gotten over that speed bump.

Fair enough, I guess. He knows the system. He plays well on STs. But I just don't believe in "depth" options you already know can NOT play actual NFL snaps. Jordan Dangerfield can not play actual defensive snaps in real NFL games. Therefore, why roster him? Try something, anyone else for the same $$$.


You've been over that guy for a while now! :chuckle:

[Born2Steel]

Damnit! I thought they had finally gotten over that speed bump.

Fair enough, I guess. He knows the system. He plays well on STs. But I just don't believe in "depth" options you already know can NOT play actual NFL snaps. Jordan Dangerfield can not play actual defensive snaps in real NFL games. Therefore, why roster him? Try something, anyone else for the same $$$.

Looks like another 'hole filled' move pre-draft. I think Colbert will hunt for a Safety in the draft but if one of his guys doesn't fall, there's still Dangerfield and at least we didn't go backwards. Dangerfield and Kelley could both use some serious upgrade. But with Minkah and Edmunds maybe the focus is more on a true NB? Free agent safeties worth looking at are probably too expensive right now. A bit surprised they went Dangerfield over Davis one this deal though.

Nevermind, just read Davis signed with the Redskins($5M/1yr).

Vonn Bell is still out there. Fingers crossed.

[Mojouw]

Looks like another 'hole filled' move pre-draft. I think Colbert will hunt for a Safety in the draft but if one of his guys doesn't fall, there's still Dangerfield and at least we didn't go backwards. Dangerfield and Kelley could both use some serious upgrade. But with Minkah and Edmunds maybe the focus is more on a true NB? Free agent safeties worth looking at are probably too expensive right now. A bit surprised they went Dangerfield over Davis one this deal though.

Nevermind, just read Davis signed with the Redskins($5M/1yr).

Vonn Bell is still out there. Fingers crossed.

I know that you are right. I also understand that the Steelers can't just go get a borderline starter quality safety and have them take the almost certainly minimum salary deal that Dangerfield took.

I guess it is more that i very much hope there is another move that pushes one of Dangerfield and Allen off the roster. And that is understandable if that move doesn't happen until later in the off season.

I think it all goes to my frustration that the Steelers seem to not turn-over the bottom of their roster as much as I would prefer. For instance, if not for the odd injury situations last season, there is no way that Deon Cain is on the roster. I honestly think they are going to find that they have a competent NFL WR in Cain. There has to be the safety and TE equivalent of that floating around PS and the waiver wire. I would be churning through those guys almost weekly. But perhaps that isn't realistic for an actual NFL team - just the imaginary one I run in my head.

BTW - we win the championship every year.

[Born2Steel]

I know that you are right. I also understand that the Steelers can't just go get a borderline starter quality safety and have them take the almost certainly minimum salary deal that Dangerfield took.

I guess it is more that i very much hope there is another move that pushes one of Dangerfield and Allen off the roster. And that is understandable if that move doesn't happen until later in the off season.

I think it all goes to my frustration that the Steelers seem to not turn-over the bottom of their roster as much as I would prefer. For instance, if not for the odd injury situations last season, there is no way that Deon Cain is on the roster. I honestly think they are going to find that they have a competent NFL WR in Cain. There has to be the safety and TE equivalent of that floating around PS and the waiver wire. I would be churning through those guys almost weekly. But perhaps that isn't realistic for an actual NFL team - just the imaginary one I run in my head.

BTW - we win the championship every year.

The Steelers have never lost a game at my house.

I also want to see Dangerfield upgraded to someone that can actually be on the field on defense if needed. We often talk about a prospect's floor and ceiling being either high or low. Same can be done with the team, either as a whle or by position group. The Safety position today has a very high ceiling but also a very low floor. that floor needs to be raised considerably. Our current roster shows Minkah/Dangerfield and Edmunds/Allen(actually has Dangerfield and Allen swapped but I think that's backwards). This is not how I would want to enter September. There is a safety on the roster I am not familiar with. Tray Matthews 6'1"-213lbs, 25yrs old, out of Auburn, listed as wears #46. Gonna do some digging on him, great size for a box safety/NB.

Found this article from 2018: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/player-blurb-tray-matthews-ss-auburn/